Somewhere in this ellipse "might have been" the Ingram money find! Can anyone point to where it actually was !?

I will try to post where I firmly believe the money location is is based on maps and aerial photo's...

Somewhere in this ellipse "might have been" the Ingram money find! Can anyone point to where it actually was !?

Top left corner of the inside darker oval, just this side of the big shrub (briar patch, actually).  Meyer

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

BTW,, what ever happened to operation T-BAR?

Have no idea - what is operation T-BAR with capitol letters? Oh! Ask Bruce Smith. He knows everthing.

Seriously,


OPERATION TBAR explained

The Team

Dave Brown (aka Shutter)
Georger (prefers low key on names)
Robert Nicholson
Meyer Louie
Tom Kaye (advisor)

Several test samples will be placed in the sand.
 
Samples are as follows
#1 Two bundles of bills wrapped with a single rubber band
#2 Two sets of Lexan blocks with multiple bands on them.
#3 One bundle of vintage bills will be placed in the sand.
 

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Research shows that in dry sand heavy objects float or stay on top while lighter ones sink..

conversely, in water saturated sand lighter objects/mass float while heavy objects/mass sink..

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Dredging spoils are in a state of liquefaction for some time. They flow... see south "slump" pile. 

Image has been colorised to better show slumping effect present at @ of the liquefied dredge slump piles - 

Red dot shows money find location north of north slump pile.

The money find location, based on the GPS coordinates from Tom Kaye, is about 150 to 200 feet south (to the right in the photo) of the red dot.  Remember that the long building running north and south on the Fazio property is about 200 or 210 feet long.

The TK coordinates put the red dot well inside the pencil circles and at the edge, or maybe slightly into, the slump pile.  So if the money was at Tina Bar prior to 1974, Shutter could be right.

Either you or Tom are screwed up. My red doit is very close to Tom's yellow pin in his chart on his website. Now, if Tom's corrds are wrong or his pin is wrong ..... I dont know which. Take it up with Tom. Let us know by the year 5000!  Im going fishing.

You should get that "red doit" checked by a Doctor..  might be Cancerous

So, let me get the context,,, 

The exact location of the missing rubber bands on the TBar money is settled but the location of the money find isn't..

Absolutely unbelievable..

Relative to your questions about the rubber bands, are you thinking that the money made its way to T-Bar in the form of three strapped packets, held together as one bundle by two rubber bands?

Anything is possible, but based on the (FBI) evidence and logic it is more likely that the money arrived on TBAR as one rubber banded bundle of packages.. not 3 separate individual packages.

Bank confirmed that the bundles were randomized, not the packages..  So, bundles may have contained 3, 4, 5 or 6 packages (x100 bills)..

I haven't found any evidence that supports the "settled conclusion" that each individual package was encircled by an "intact" (Kaye) rubber band arriving on TBAR separately but together..

Ingrams statements are vague and FBI interpretations unclear.

additional Media reports,,

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

“the stacks of $20 bills were bound by decomposing rubber bands�


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

"was bound in packets with crumbling rubber bands�


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

"The money, bound by rubber bands,�


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

"HE SAID wads of the money, bound by rubber bands, were found"


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

"The first bills, bound together by crumbling rubber bands,"

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Dredging spoils are in a state of liquefaction for some time. They flow... see south "slump" pile. 

Image has been colorised to better show slumping effect present at @ of the liquefied dredge slump piles - 

Red dot shows money find location north of north slump pile.

The money find location, based on the GPS coordinates from Tom Kaye, is about 150 to 200 feet south (to the right in the photo) of the red dot.  Remember that the long building running north and south on the Fazio property is about 200 or 210 feet long.

The TK coordinates put the red dot well inside the pencil circles and at the edge, or maybe slightly into, the slump pile.  So if the money was at Tina Bar prior to 1974, Shutter could be right.

Either you or Tom are screwed up. My red doit is very close to Tom's yellow pin in his chart on his website. Now, if Tom's corrds are wrong or his pin is wrong ..... I dont know which. Take it up with Tom. Let us know by the year 5000!  Im going fishing.

You should get that "red doit" checked by a Doctor..  might be Cancerous

So, let me get the context,,, 

The exact location of the missing rubber bands on the TBar money is settled but the location of the money find isn't..

Absolutely unbelievable..

Relative to your questions about the rubber bands, are you thinking that the money made its way to T-Bar in the form of three strapped packets, held together as one bundle by two rubber bands?

Anything is possible, but based on the (FBI) evidence and logic it is more likely that the money arrived on TBAR as one rubber banded bundle of packages.. not 3 separate individual packages.

Bank confirmed that the bundles were randomized, not the packages..  So, bundles may have contained 3, 4, 5 or 6 packages (x100 bills)..

I haven't found any evidence that supports the "settled conclusion" that each individual package was encircled by an "intact" (Kaye) rubber band arriving on TBAR separately but together..

Ingrams statements are vague and FBI interpretations unclear.

additional Media reports,,

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

“the stacks of $20 bills were bound by decomposing rubber bands�


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

"was bound in packets with crumbling rubber bands�


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

"The money, bound by rubber bands,�


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

"HE SAID wads of the money, bound by rubber bands, were found"


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

"The first bills, bound together by crumbling rubber bands,"

I have never bought the idea that the three separate packets could have traveled together to T-Bar, without either being purposely planted there, or without them having been rubber banded to each other in one bundle.  The part that seems off to me though is that it seems like there should have been either the remnants of paper straps, or of rubber bands, in-between certain bills.  In other words, if the top packet had 101 bills in it, and the middle packet had 98 bills in it, and the bottom packet had 99 bills in it, separating the bills should have revealed some sort of remnants of a decomposed strap / rubber band underneath bill #101 and on top of bill #102, as well as similar remnants underneath bill #199 and on top of bill #200.  I suppose that, if it had been paper straps, they would have decomposed faster than the bills; but would that really erase all trace of them?

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Dredging spoils are in a state of liquefaction for some time. They flow... see south "slump" pile. 

Image has been colorised to better show slumping effect present at @ of the liquefied dredge slump piles - 

Red dot shows money find location north of north slump pile.

The money find location, based on the GPS coordinates from Tom Kaye, is about 150 to 200 feet south (to the right in the photo) of the red dot.  Remember that the long building running north and south on the Fazio property is about 200 or 210 feet long.

The TK coordinates put the red dot well inside the pencil circles and at the edge, or maybe slightly into, the slump pile.  So if the money was at Tina Bar prior to 1974, Shutter could be right.

Either you or Tom are screwed up. My red doit is very close to Tom's yellow pin in his chart on his website. Now, if Tom's corrds are wrong or his pin is wrong ..... I dont know which. Take it up with Tom. Let us know by the year 5000!  Im going fishing.

You should get that "red doit" checked by a Doctor..  might be Cancerous

So, let me get the context,,, 

The exact location of the missing rubber bands on the TBar money is settled but the location of the money find isn't..

Absolutely unbelievable..

Relative to your questions about the rubber bands, are you thinking that the money made its way to T-Bar in the form of three strapped packets, held together as one bundle by two rubber bands?

Anything is possible, but based on the (FBI) evidence and logic it is more likely that the money arrived on TBAR as one rubber banded bundle of packages.. not 3 separate individual packages.

Bank confirmed that the bundles were randomized, not the packages..  So, bundles may have contained 3, 4, 5 or 6 packages (x100 bills)..

I haven't found any evidence that supports the "settled conclusion" that each individual package was encircled by an "intact" (Kaye) rubber band arriving on TBAR separately but together..

Ingrams statements are vague and FBI interpretations unclear.

additional Media reports,,

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

“the stacks of $20 bills were bound by decomposing rubber bands�


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

"was bound in packets with crumbling rubber bands�


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

"The money, bound by rubber bands,�


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

"HE SAID wads of the money, bound by rubber bands, were found"


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

"The first bills, bound together by crumbling rubber bands,"

I have never bought the idea that the three separate packets could have traveled together to T-Bar, without either being purposely planted there, or without them having been rubber banded to each other in one bundle.  The part that seems off to me though is that it seems like there should have been either the remnants of paper straps, or of rubber bands, in-between certain bills.  In other words, if the top packet had 101 bills in it, and the middle packet had 98 bills in it, and the bottom packet had 99 bills in it, separating the bills should have revealed some sort of remnants of a decomposed strap / rubber band underneath bill #101 and on top of bill #102, as well as similar remnants underneath bill #199 and on top of bill #200.  I suppose that, if it had been paper straps, they would have decomposed faster than the bills; but would that really erase all trace of them?

YES,, and the Ingrams "touch" removed the rubber bands and to dry the money they separated out the packages into piles.. compromising the evidence. The 3 "packages" were offset, so something held each package together, at least temporarily.

but if there were currency straps made from a less robust paper they may have just deteriorated very quickly without a trace.

and I can't find a source for this..
Snowmman said on DZ referring to the Ingrams "They said only one bundle (package) was missing rubber bands."

if only two packages of 3 had rubber band fragments that suggests a banded bundle of 3 packages.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Dredging spoils are in a state of liquefaction for some time. They flow... see south "slump" pile. 

Image has been colorised to better show slumping effect present at @ of the liquefied dredge slump piles - 

Red dot shows money find location north of north slump pile.

The money find location, based on the GPS coordinates from Tom Kaye, is about 150 to 200 feet south (to the right in the photo) of the red dot.  Remember that the long building running north and south on the Fazio property is about 200 or 210 feet long.

The TK coordinates put the red dot well inside the pencil circles and at the edge, or maybe slightly into, the slump pile.  So if the money was at Tina Bar prior to 1974, Shutter could be right.

Either you or Tom are screwed up. My red doit is very close to Tom's yellow pin in his chart on his website. Now, if Tom's corrds are wrong or his pin is wrong ..... I dont know which. Take it up with Tom. Let us know by the year 5000!  Im going fishing.

You should get that "red doit" checked by a Doctor..  might be Cancerous

So, let me get the context,,, 

The exact location of the missing rubber bands on the TBar money is settled but the location of the money find isn't..

Absolutely unbelievable..

Relative to your questions about the rubber bands, are you thinking that the money made its way to T-Bar in the form of three strapped packets, held together as one bundle by two rubber bands?

Anything is possible, but based on the (FBI) evidence and logic it is more likely that the money arrived on TBAR as one rubber banded bundle of packages.. not 3 separate individual packages.

Bank confirmed that the bundles were randomized, not the packages..  So, bundles may have contained 3, 4, 5 or 6 packages (x100 bills)..

I haven't found any evidence that supports the "settled conclusion" that each individual package was encircled by an "intact" (Kaye) rubber band arriving on TBAR separately but together..

Ingrams statements are vague and FBI interpretations unclear.

additional Media reports,,

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

“the stacks of $20 bills were bound by decomposing rubber bands�


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

"was bound in packets with crumbling rubber bands�


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

"The money, bound by rubber bands,�


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

"HE SAID wads of the money, bound by rubber bands, were found"


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

"The first bills, bound together by crumbling rubber bands,"

I have never bought the idea that the three separate packets could have traveled together to T-Bar, without either being purposely planted there, or without them having been rubber banded to each other in one bundle.  The part that seems off to me though is that it seems like there should have been either the remnants of paper straps, or of rubber bands, in-between certain bills.  In other words, if the top packet had 101 bills in it, and the middle packet had 98 bills in it, and the bottom packet had 99 bills in it, separating the bills should have revealed some sort of remnants of a decomposed strap / rubber band underneath bill #101 and on top of bill #102, as well as similar remnants underneath bill #199 and on top of bill #200.  I suppose that, if it had been paper straps, they would have decomposed faster than the bills; but would that really erase all trace of them?

Let's consider a hypothetical situation.  When the bank created that "special fund" at the request of the FBI, specific things were done to simplify identifying the money bills and to give the impression that the bills were not "marked".  The bills selected for that fund had all been in circulation and covered only three years.  The bills were not in sequential order and were probably microfilmed at that time.  Then the bills were put in equal bundles and secured by the bank's normal paper tape.  Thus the bank could easily keep track of the "special fund" during inventories.

The hijacking took place very near 3:00PM PST and the Seattle detective delivered the money to the NWA facility at SEATAC shortly after 5:00PM PST.  If NWA management at SEATAC immediately notified the FBI and the FBI then notified the bank with the special fund, then the bank would have less than two full hours to get the bills to the Seattle detective.  The FBI/bank took the bills out of the paper tape, put them in different size bundles, and secured the new bundles with rubber bands.  They may have also microfilmed the bills in the Cooper ransom again.

The three bundles found at Tina Bar were probably deposited there several months or years after the hijacking and were probably in the same bag that was given to Cooper when they arrived at Tina Bar.

I do not see anything odd about how the bills went from the "special fund" in the bank's vault to how they were bundled when given to Cooper.