Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1410268 times)

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2205 on: August 08, 2017, 11:33:39 PM »
A strong aviation presence has been a fact in the State of Washington for many years, as part of the Military Industrial Complex. That fact may be connected to Cooper's choice of the State of Washington to conduct his hijacking (a  political part of his Grudge). It may also connect to Cooper's identity. In 1971, Ted Kaczynski decided to leave civilisation (academia) in California to hold up in a cabin in Montana, then started his bombing campaign. Later the same year, 1971, Cooper conducted his hijacking and vanished.     
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 11:38:54 PM by georger »
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2206 on: August 09, 2017, 12:09:09 AM »
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A strong aviation presence has been a fact in the State of Washington for many years, as part of the Military Industrial Complex. That fact may be connected to Cooper's choice of the State of Washington to conduct his hijacking (a  political part of his Grudge). It may also connect to Cooper's identity. In 1971, Ted Kaczynski decided to leave civilisation (academia) in California to hold up in a cabin in Montana, then started his bombing campaign. Later the same year, 1971, Cooper conducted his hijacking and vanished.     

There is a series on the Unabomber now airing on cable TV and I have just finished viewing the latest episode this evening.  One FBI agent and one linguist from somewhere, maybe academia, have been going thru the Unabomber's manifesto (this is before it was published by the national media) and coming up with conclusions that contradict the "official profile" as developed by the FBI old timers, who are directing the Unabomber Task Force and have a low opinion of linguistics.

I think the methodology of the linguists is VERY interesting and I highly recommend this show.  There are several more episodes to go.   
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2207 on: August 09, 2017, 12:18:26 AM »
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A strong aviation presence has been a fact in the State of Washington for many years, as part of the Military Industrial Complex. That fact may be connected to Cooper's choice of the State of Washington to conduct his hijacking (a  political part of his Grudge). It may also connect to Cooper's identity. In 1971, Ted Kaczynski decided to leave civilisation (academia) in California to hold up in a cabin in Montana, then started his bombing campaign. Later the same year, 1971, Cooper conducted his hijacking and vanished.     

There is a series on the Unabomber now airing on cable TV and I have just finished viewing the latest episode this evening.  One FBI agent and one linguist from somewhere, maybe academia, have been going thru the Unabomber's manifesto (this is before it was published by the national media) and coming up with conclusions that contradict the "official profile" as developed by the FBI old timers, who are directing the Unabomber Task Force and have a low opinion of linguistics.

I think the methodology of the linguists is VERY interesting and I highly recommend this show.  There are several more episodes to go.

That in a nutshell was the reason behind my post above -

The program details the dilemma the FBI faced in "profiling" the Unabomber. They finally resorted to a new profiling technique linguistic called 'ideolect' profiling. The techniques had been being used in Europe for some time ... it resulted in an internal war inside the FBI.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 12:21:55 AM by georger »
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2208 on: August 09, 2017, 12:21:03 AM »
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Maybe it's a curse for old timers like me or maybe it's a good thing. I remember things like they used to be going back to the 40's in Portland area. PDX never used to be rated a International Airport. As a matter of fact the Airport actually wasn't located at its exact present location when my Uncle flew for United and we used to pick him up when he flew into town. The terminal was located off Marine Drive well west of present terminal. It was probably sometime around 1958 when they started expanding and extending runways to meet International standards. Why do I mention this ? Well my point is that back in the days I served in the 142 nd between 1962 to 1968, the Airbase took up the Lions share of the area ! The entire 2 miles on the South side were all part of the Airbase. Many of the sleeping structures have been torn down many years ago. The only 2 occupants back then were the Air Force and the Air National Guard as far as I know. PDX just keeps getting bigger as the city of Portland keeps growing. I guess I just live back in the days and of course ..... Cooper was back in the day also ! 😀

Kermit,

As a former Portland mailman, this question should be right up your alley.

During my visits to Portland, I have had all kinds of trouble locating such places as stores when using their street addresses.  I get the impression that Portland is actually a collection of about five smaller towns that were joined  together to form "Portland" and that the small towns kept their original street numbering systems.

For instance, I once was looking for a specific store that had a northeast Portland address, but was actually in the southwestern part of the city of Portland.

Do you have any comment on the above?
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2209 on: August 09, 2017, 12:33:50 AM »
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A strong aviation presence has been a fact in the State of Washington for many years, as part of the Military Industrial Complex. That fact may be connected to Cooper's choice of the State of Washington to conduct his hijacking (a  political part of his Grudge). It may also connect to Cooper's identity. In 1971, Ted Kaczynski decided to leave civilisation (academia) in California to hold up in a cabin in Montana, then started his bombing campaign. Later the same year, 1971, Cooper conducted his hijacking and vanished.     

There is a series on the Unabomber now airing on cable TV and I have just finished viewing the latest episode this evening.  One FBI agent and one linguist from somewhere, maybe academia, have been going thru the Unabomber's manifesto (this is before it was published by the national media) and coming up with conclusions that contradict the "official profile" as developed by the FBI old timers, who are directing the Unabomber Task Force and have a low opinion of linguistics.

I think the methodology of the linguists is VERY interesting and I highly recommend this show.  There are several more episodes to go.

That in a nutshell was the reason behind my post above -

The program details the dilemma the FBI faced in "profiling" the Unabomber. They finally resorted to a new profiling technique linguistic called 'ideolect' profiling. The techniques had been being used in Europe for some time ... it resulted in an internal war inside the FBI.

"Ideolect" is what the linguist was telling the FBI agent about in this evening's episode.  The FBI agent then got thrown out of his superior's office when he tried to explain it to him.

The FBI undoubtedly worked up a profile for Cooper, but in view of their lack of progress on the hijacking, it will probably never be released.

Is there something along the above lines that we can do ourselves (since we are sure as hell not going to get any assistance from you know where)?

 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2210 on: August 09, 2017, 01:10:16 AM »
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Maybe it's a curse for old timers like me or maybe it's a good thing. I remember things like they used to be going back to the 40's in Portland area. PDX never used to be rated a International Airport. As a matter of fact the Airport actually wasn't located at its exact present location when my Uncle flew for United and we used to pick him up when he flew into town. The terminal was located off Marine Drive well west of present terminal. It was probably sometime around 1958 when they started expanding and extending runways to meet International standards. Why do I mention this ? Well my point is that back in the days I served in the 142 nd between 1962 to 1968, the Airbase took up the Lions share of the area ! The entire 2 miles on the South side were all part of the Airbase. Many of the sleeping structures have been torn down many years ago. The only 2 occupants back then were the Air Force and the Air National Guard as far as I know. PDX just keeps getting bigger as the city of Portland keeps growing. I guess I just live back in the days and of course ..... Cooper was back in the day also ! 😀

Kermit,

As a former Portland mailman, this question should be right up your alley.

During my visits to Portland, I have had all kinds of trouble locating such places as stores when using their street addresses.  I get the impression that Portland is actually a collection of about five smaller towns that were joined  together to form "Portland" and that the small towns kept their original street numbering systems.

For instance, I once was looking for a specific store that had a northeast Portland address, but was actually in the southwestern part of the city of Portland.

Do you have any comment on the above?

Robert,
Like most towns, Portland has many districts that easily tell locals the general area that one may live in etc. for instance we have Laurelhurst, Hawthorne, Sellwood, Sunnyside, Montevilla, Hollywood, Pearl, Skyline, Goose Hollow, etc. However I find Portland addresses quite easy to know what section a business might be located for a few simple facts. First off East and West are divided by the Willamette River. Also Burnside st divides North and South. Also streets are numbered from the Willamette river. For instance IF you are given an address of 2300 s.e 82 , you know the street is 82 blocks east of the river and 23 blocks south of burnside st. The East side of Portland is far easier than the west side to figure out. Also streets north of Burnside are numbered alphabetically.... Burnside, Couch, Davis, Everett, Flanders, Glisan, Hoyt etc etc. you get the drift. So I'm not able to understand any way that you could find a business with a N E address and it was actually located in SW Portland. That's just not the way streets are numbered in Portland. N E will ALWAYS be East of the Willamette River and North of Burnside. Perhaps your business actually was further East and went into Gresham,Oregon or,Fairview, Oregon. I see lot of confusion when you get too high on streets like Division st and Stark which runs through Portland and also same,street becomes a Gresham address. If you gave me the address that messed you up, I'd explain what happened. I hope I confused you enough ! LOL 🤣
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2211 on: August 09, 2017, 01:38:29 AM »
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Maybe it's a curse for old timers like me or maybe it's a good thing. I remember things like they used to be going back to the 40's in Portland area. PDX never used to be rated a International Airport. As a matter of fact the Airport actually wasn't located at its exact present location when my Uncle flew for United and we used to pick him up when he flew into town. The terminal was located off Marine Drive well west of present terminal. It was probably sometime around 1958 when they started expanding and extending runways to meet International standards. Why do I mention this ? Well my point is that back in the days I served in the 142 nd between 1962 to 1968, the Airbase took up the Lions share of the area ! The entire 2 miles on the South side were all part of the Airbase. Many of the sleeping structures have been torn down many years ago. The only 2 occupants back then were the Air Force and the Air National Guard as far as I know. PDX just keeps getting bigger as the city of Portland keeps growing. I guess I just live back in the days and of course ..... Cooper was back in the day also ! 😀

Kermit,

As a former Portland mailman, this question should be right up your alley.

During my visits to Portland, I have had all kinds of trouble locating such places as stores when using their street addresses.  I get the impression that Portland is actually a collection of about five smaller towns that were joined  together to form "Portland" and that the small towns kept their original street numbering systems.

For instance, I once was looking for a specific store that had a northeast Portland address, but was actually in the southwestern part of the city of Portland.

Do you have any comment on the above?

Robert,
Like most towns, Portland has many districts that easily tell locals the general area that one may live in etc. for instance we have Laurelhurst, Hawthorne, Sellwood, Sunnyside, Montevilla, Hollywood, Pearl, Skyline, Goose Hollow, etc. However I find Portland addresses quite easy to know what section a business might be located for a few simple facts. First off East and West are divided by the Willamette River. Also Burnside st divides North and South. Also streets are numbered from the Willamette river. For instance IF you are given an address of 2300 s.e 82 , you know the street is 82 blocks east of the river and 23 blocks south of burnside st. The East side of Portland is far easier than the west side to figure out. Also streets north of Burnside are numbered alphabetically.... Burnside, Couch, Davis, Everett, Flanders, Glisan, Hoyt etc etc. you get the drift. So I'm not able to understand any way that you could find a business with a N E address and it was actually located in SW Portland. That's just not the way streets are numbered in Portland. N E will ALWAYS be East of the Willamette River and North of Burnside. Perhaps your business actually was further East and went into Gresham,Oregon or,Fairview, Oregon. I see lot of confusion when you get too high on streets like Division st and Stark which runs through Portland and also same,street becomes a Gresham address. If you gave me the address that messed you up, I'd explain what happened. I hope I confused you enough ! LOL 🤣

Kermit,

Try this one.  REI, 1405 NW Johnson Street, Portland, OR 97209.

I don't remember where I found the street on the Portland map, but I was definitely under the illusion that it was in the NE part of Portland when I went looking for it.  However, the store itself is in the extreme South West part of Portland, or it seemed that way to me.  It sure wasn't in the NW or NE part of Portland.
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2212 on: August 09, 2017, 01:39:08 AM »
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A strong aviation presence has been a fact in the State of Washington for many years, as part of the Military Industrial Complex. That fact may be connected to Cooper's choice of the State of Washington to conduct his hijacking (a  political part of his Grudge). It may also connect to Cooper's identity. In 1971, Ted Kaczynski decided to leave civilisation (academia) in California to hold up in a cabin in Montana, then started his bombing campaign. Later the same year, 1971, Cooper conducted his hijacking and vanished.     

There is a series on the Unabomber now airing on cable TV and I have just finished viewing the latest episode this evening.  One FBI agent and one linguist from somewhere, maybe academia, have been going thru the Unabomber's manifesto (this is before it was published by the national media) and coming up with conclusions that contradict the "official profile" as developed by the FBI old timers, who are directing the Unabomber Task Force and have a low opinion of linguistics.

I think the methodology of the linguists is VERY interesting and I highly recommend this show.  There are several more episodes to go.

That in a nutshell was the reason behind my post above -

The program details the dilemma the FBI faced in "profiling" the Unabomber. They finally resorted to a new profiling technique linguistic called 'ideolect' profiling. The techniques had been being used in Europe for some time ... it resulted in an internal war inside the FBI.

"Ideolect" is what the linguist was telling the FBI agent about in this evening's episode.  The FBI agent then got thrown out of his superior's office when he tried to explain it to him.

The FBI undoubtedly worked up a profile for Cooper, but in view of their lack of progress on the hijacking, it will probably never be released.

Is there something along the above lines that we can do ourselves (since we are sure as hell not going to get any assistance from you know where)?

The notion of an 'ideolect' (linguistic finger print) is very old. It has been used for everything from trying to assign identity to Shakespeare plays, to assigning identity to the authors and chapters in the Bible - with some success. It has been used to fill in historical blanks about the origins of peoples, as the program tonight mentioned. Aside from actually assigning a correct identity to the Unabomber, based on his scripts, the field of linguistic finger printing had no recognised legal standing as a viable forensic method in Courts at the time, something the Unabomber was quick to point out. The search warrant obtained had no basis except in profiling - the Unabomber wanted all of the evidence obtained from his cabin thrown out on that basis. Later, as you will see, Ted's identity was nailed down and confirmed by his own family members familiar with Ted's earlier writings, which strengthened the FBI's case.

I have always thought it interesting that the origins of both the Unabomber and Cooper both go back to that 1970s period when people were dropping out and taking a stand, of one kind or another.

In the case of Cooper, if the goal is an 'ideolect', you would have to combine all of his spoken and written words, his commands and demands, along side specific instances of his actual behavior to somehow extrapolate an ideolect. Far more data was available in the case of the Unabomber. So far, none of the FBI pages released have mentioned any attempt to profile Cooper. Who knows if it was attempted or not and by whom. The FAA psychiatrist was proven wrong and very likely Himmelsbach's first appraisal was not data-based.       
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 01:42:57 AM by georger »
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2213 on: August 09, 2017, 01:59:43 AM »
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A strong aviation presence has been a fact in the State of Washington for many years, as part of the Military Industrial Complex. That fact may be connected to Cooper's choice of the State of Washington to conduct his hijacking (a  political part of his Grudge). It may also connect to Cooper's identity. In 1971, Ted Kaczynski decided to leave civilisation (academia) in California to hold up in a cabin in Montana, then started his bombing campaign. Later the same year, 1971, Cooper conducted his hijacking and vanished.     

There is a series on the Unabomber now airing on cable TV and I have just finished viewing the latest episode this evening.  One FBI agent and one linguist from somewhere, maybe academia, have been going thru the Unabomber's manifesto (this is before it was published by the national media) and coming up with conclusions that contradict the "official profile" as developed by the FBI old timers, who are directing the Unabomber Task Force and have a low opinion of linguistics.

I think the methodology of the linguists is VERY interesting and I highly recommend this show.  There are several more episodes to go.

That in a nutshell was the reason behind my post above -

The program details the dilemma the FBI faced in "profiling" the Unabomber. They finally resorted to a new profiling technique linguistic called 'ideolect' profiling. The techniques had been being used in Europe for some time ... it resulted in an internal war inside the FBI.

"Ideolect" is what the linguist was telling the FBI agent about in this evening's episode.  The FBI agent then got thrown out of his superior's office when he tried to explain it to him.

The FBI undoubtedly worked up a profile for Cooper, but in view of their lack of progress on the hijacking, it will probably never be released.

Is there something along the above lines that we can do ourselves (since we are sure as hell not going to get any assistance from you know where)?

The notion of an 'ideolect' (linguistic finger print) is very old. It has been used for everything from trying to assign identity to Shakespeare plays, to assigning identity to the authors and chapters in the Bible - with some success. It has been used to fill in historical blanks about the origins of peoples, as the program tonight mentioned. Aside from actually assigning a correct identity to the Unabomber, based on his scripts, the field had no recognised legal standing as a viable forensic method in Courts, something the Unabomber was quick to point out. The search warrant obtained had no basis except in profiling - the Unabomber wanted all of the evidence obtained from his cabin thrown out on that basis.

I have always thought it interesting that the origins of both the Unabomber and Cooper both go back to that 1970s period when people were dropping out and taking a stand, of one kind or another.

In the case of Cooper, if the goal is an 'ideolect', you would have to combine all of his spoken and written words, his commands and demands, along side specific instances of his actual behavior to somehow extrapolate an ideolect. Far more data was available in the case of the Unabomber. So far, none of the FBI pages released have mentioned any attempt to profile Cooper. Who knows if it was attempted or not and by whom. The FAA psychiatrist was proven wrong and very likely Himmelsbach's first appraisal was not data-based.     

The Unabomber was not arrested until after his manifesto was publicly published and his own brother had come forward to say that some parts of it sounded familiar and gave the FBI the Unabomber's name and his probable location.  The FBI had their eyes on him shortly after that as they built their case.

I think at least part of the conversations between the Unabomber and the FBI agent were not factual but were inserted for dramatic effect.

After the real life arrest of the Unabomber and some facts about him were released, I wasn't surprised to hear about his two way conversations with someone's satellite receiver dish and other such things.  But the PhD in Mathematics from Harvard did come as a surprise to me.

And the Unabomber absolutely refused to consider an insanity defense even though there was medical support for such a plea.  He just couldn't consider the possibility that he was off his rocker.  Hence, he agreed to a plea deal. 
 
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Offline Kermit

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2214 on: August 09, 2017, 09:59:02 AM »
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Maybe it's a curse for old timers like me or maybe it's a good thing. I remember things like they used to be going back to the 40's in Portland area. PDX never used to be rated a International Airport. As a matter of fact the Airport actually wasn't located at its exact present location when my Uncle flew for United and we used to pick him up when he flew into town. The terminal was located off Marine Drive well west of present terminal. It was probably sometime around 1958 when they started expanding and extending runways to meet International standards. Why do I mention this ? Well my point is that back in the days I served in the 142 nd between 1962 to 1968, the Airbase took up the Lions share of the area ! The entire 2 miles on the South side were all part of the Airbase. Many of the sleeping structures have been torn down many years ago. The only 2 occupants back then were the Air Force and the Air National Guard as far as I know. PDX just keeps getting bigger as the city of Portland keeps growing. I guess I just live back in the days and of course ..... Cooper was back in the day also ! 😀

Kermit,

As a former Portland mailman, this question should be right up your alley.

During my visits to Portland, I have had all kinds of trouble locating such places as stores when using their street addresses.  I get the impression that Portland is actually a collection of about five smaller towns that were joined  together to form "Portland" and that the small towns kept their original street numbering systems.

For instance, I once was looking for a specific store that had a northeast Portland address, but was actually in the southwestern part of the city of Portland.

Do you have any comment on the above?

Robert,
Like most towns, Portland has many districts that easily tell locals the general area that one may live in etc. for instance we have Laurelhurst, Hawthorne, Sellwood, Sunnyside, Montevilla, Hollywood, Pearl, Skyline, Goose Hollow, etc. However I find Portland addresses quite easy to know what section a business might be located for a few simple facts. First off East and West are divided by the Willamette River. Also Burnside st divides North and South. Also streets are numbered from the Willamette river. For instance IF you are given an address of 2300 s.e 82 , you know the street is 82 blocks east of the river and 23 blocks south of burnside st. The East side of Portland is far easier than the west side to figure out. Also streets north of Burnside are numbered alphabetically.... Burnside, Couch, Davis, Everett, Flanders, Glisan, Hoyt etc etc. you get the drift. So I'm not able to understand any way that you could find a business with a N E address and it was actually located in SW Portland. That's just not the way streets are numbered in Portland. N E will ALWAYS be East of the Willamette River and North of Burnside. Perhaps your business actually was further East and went into Gresham,Oregon or,Fairview, Oregon. I see lot of confusion when you get too high on streets like Division st and Stark which runs through Portland and also same,street becomes a Gresham address. If you gave me the address that messed you up, I'd explain what happened. I hope I confused you enough ! LOL 🤣

Kermit,

Try this one.  REI, 1405 NW Johnson Street, Portland, OR 97209.

I don't remember where I found the street on the Portland map, but I was definitely under the illusion that it was in the NE part of Portland when I went looking for it.  However, the store itself is in the extreme South West part of Portland, or it seemed that way to me.  It sure wasn't in the NW or NE part of Portland.

Robert,
Rei is located at 1405 N W Johnson st. as you indicated. I was there recently and they have quality stuff !
However I'm not sure why you find the address confusing as it fits right into the scenario I mentioned. NW denotes it lies on the West side of the Willamette river and North side of Burnside st. 1405 denotes it's about 14 blocks west of Willamette river and Johnson st means you just go alphabetically North from Burnside. Piece of cake ! Where do you come up with The Extreme S W part of Portland ? It's clearly North of Burnside so my question is... " Was Alcohol involved In your shopping adventure ? ". Lol. Next time give me a jungle and I'll show you around and we can have lunch at Dan and Louis Oyster Bar at 208 SW Ankeny st. It's been there forever and you would love it. Btw 208 means it's only 2 blocks from the Willamette. Lol😁
 

Offline JLa

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2215 on: August 09, 2017, 11:19:30 AM »
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A strong aviation presence has been a fact in the State of Washington for many years, as part of the Military Industrial Complex. That fact may be connected to Cooper's choice of the State of Washington to conduct his hijacking (a  political part of his Grudge). It may also connect to Cooper's identity. In 1971, Ted Kaczynski decided to leave civilisation (academia) in California to hold up in a cabin in Montana, then started his bombing campaign. Later the same year, 1971, Cooper conducted his hijacking and vanished.     

There is a series on the Unabomber now airing on cable TV and I have just finished viewing the latest episode this evening.  One FBI agent and one linguist from somewhere, maybe academia, have been going thru the Unabomber's manifesto (this is before it was published by the national media) and coming up with conclusions that contradict the "official profile" as developed by the FBI old timers, who are directing the Unabomber Task Force and have a low opinion of linguistics.

I think the methodology of the linguists is VERY interesting and I highly recommend this show.  There are several more episodes to go.


I agree Robert! The show is fantastic! I will point out that one of the first profiles of the UNABomber was from John Douglass and it was pretty damn close to being spot on. He theorized that "...the offender as being of above-average intelligence and with connections to academia. The theory was refined to the offender being a neo-Luddite holding an academic degree in hard sciences." The FBI then apparently decided to not believe this profile and went to their "airline mechanic" profile.

It's interesting because with DBC, the FBI seemed to refuse to have an open mind and consider other options but with the UNAbomber; they seemed almost too willing to jump from profile to profile.
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2216 on: August 09, 2017, 01:40:56 PM »
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Maybe it's a curse for old timers like me or maybe it's a good thing. I remember things like they used to be going back to the 40's in Portland area. PDX never used to be rated a International Airport. As a matter of fact the Airport actually wasn't located at its exact present location when my Uncle flew for United and we used to pick him up when he flew into town. The terminal was located off Marine Drive well west of present terminal. It was probably sometime around 1958 when they started expanding and extending runways to meet International standards. Why do I mention this ? Well my point is that back in the days I served in the 142 nd between 1962 to 1968, the Airbase took up the Lions share of the area ! The entire 2 miles on the South side were all part of the Airbase. Many of the sleeping structures have been torn down many years ago. The only 2 occupants back then were the Air Force and the Air National Guard as far as I know. PDX just keeps getting bigger as the city of Portland keeps growing. I guess I just live back in the days and of course ..... Cooper was back in the day also ! 😀

Kermit,

As a former Portland mailman, this question should be right up your alley.

During my visits to Portland, I have had all kinds of trouble locating such places as stores when using their street addresses.  I get the impression that Portland is actually a collection of about five smaller towns that were joined  together to form "Portland" and that the small towns kept their original street numbering systems.

For instance, I once was looking for a specific store that had a northeast Portland address, but was actually in the southwestern part of the city of Portland.

Do you have any comment on the above?

Robert,
Like most towns, Portland has many districts that easily tell locals the general area that one may live in etc. for instance we have Laurelhurst, Hawthorne, Sellwood, Sunnyside, Montevilla, Hollywood, Pearl, Skyline, Goose Hollow, etc. However I find Portland addresses quite easy to know what section a business might be located for a few simple facts. First off East and West are divided by the Willamette River. Also Burnside st divides North and South. Also streets are numbered from the Willamette river. For instance IF you are given an address of 2300 s.e 82 , you know the street is 82 blocks east of the river and 23 blocks south of burnside st. The East side of Portland is far easier than the west side to figure out. Also streets north of Burnside are numbered alphabetically.... Burnside, Couch, Davis, Everett, Flanders, Glisan, Hoyt etc etc. you get the drift. So I'm not able to understand any way that you could find a business with a N E address and it was actually located in SW Portland. That's just not the way streets are numbered in Portland. N E will ALWAYS be East of the Willamette River and North of Burnside. Perhaps your business actually was further East and went into Gresham,Oregon or,Fairview, Oregon. I see lot of confusion when you get too high on streets like Division st and Stark which runs through Portland and also same,street becomes a Gresham address. If you gave me the address that messed you up, I'd explain what happened. I hope I confused you enough ! LOL 🤣

Kermit,

Try this one.  REI, 1405 NW Johnson Street, Portland, OR 97209.

I don't remember where I found the street on the Portland map, but I was definitely under the illusion that it was in the NE part of Portland when I went looking for it.  However, the store itself is in the extreme South West part of Portland, or it seemed that way to me.  It sure wasn't in the NW or NE part of Portland.

Robert,
Rei is located at 1405 N W Johnson st. as you indicated. I was there recently and they have quality stuff !
However I'm not sure why you find the address confusing as it fits right into the scenario I mentioned. NW denotes it lies on the West side of the Willamette river and North side of Burnside st. 1405 denotes it's about 14 blocks west of Willamette river and Johnson st means you just go alphabetically North from Burnside. Piece of cake ! Where do you come up with The Extreme S W part of Portland ? It's clearly North of Burnside so my question is... " Was Alcohol involved In your shopping adventure ? ". Lol. Next time give me a jungle and I'll show you around and we can have lunch at Dan and Louis Oyster Bar at 208 SW Ankeny st. It's been there forever and you would love it. Btw 208 means it's only 2 blocks from the Willamette. Lol😁

I'm on the wagon, so no alcohol was involved.  I also had problems with other locations and the street map that I was using.  The end result was that I was wondering if I was even in Portland.  Let's keep the lunch in mind for some yet to be determined future date. :)
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2217 on: August 09, 2017, 02:05:59 PM »
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A strong aviation presence has been a fact in the State of Washington for many years, as part of the Military Industrial Complex. That fact may be connected to Cooper's choice of the State of Washington to conduct his hijacking (a  political part of his Grudge). It may also connect to Cooper's identity. In 1971, Ted Kaczynski decided to leave civilisation (academia) in California to hold up in a cabin in Montana, then started his bombing campaign. Later the same year, 1971, Cooper conducted his hijacking and vanished.     

There is a series on the Unabomber now airing on cable TV and I have just finished viewing the latest episode this evening.  One FBI agent and one linguist from somewhere, maybe academia, have been going thru the Unabomber's manifesto (this is before it was published by the national media) and coming up with conclusions that contradict the "official profile" as developed by the FBI old timers, who are directing the Unabomber Task Force and have a low opinion of linguistics.

I think the methodology of the linguists is VERY interesting and I highly recommend this show.  There are several more episodes to go.


I agree Robert! The show is fantastic! I will point out that one of the first profiles of the UNABomber was from John Douglass and it was pretty damn close to being spot on. He theorized that "...the offender as being of above-average intelligence and with connections to academia. The theory was refined to the offender being a neo-Luddite holding an academic degree in hard sciences." The FBI then apparently decided to not believe this profile and went to their "airline mechanic" profile.

It's interesting because with DBC, the FBI seemed to refuse to have an open mind and consider other options but with the UNAbomber; they seemed almost too willing to jump from profile to profile.

The female linguist from academia who was assisting the FBI was absolutely sensational.  From the manifesto she concluded that the author had written a PhD dissertation during a certain short period of time, which helped to determine his age range. And that he was from the Chicago area and was familiar with the efforts of the Chicago Tribune's owner to make some changes in the English language, which also helped pinpoint his age range.  This linguist came up with just about everything except the Unabomber's name, phone number, and where he got his PhD.

Do you think we could invite the linguist to meet us at a Mexican restaurant and explain how the hole in the platter of chips relates to Cooper? ;D

At this point, I'm willing to try anything. :))

 
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 02:09:05 PM by Robert99 »
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2218 on: August 09, 2017, 02:39:28 PM »
Robert,
Next time you visit Portland, just remember 2 things. Willamette river divides East and West and Burnside street divides North and South. Since we were talking restaurants, I would like to address the future of D B Cooper days in Ariel. I know that Bryan Woodruff is sincere in his endeavors to reopen the Store and continue the D B Cooper Days. However it might take some time as he faces lots of repairs and codes. I wish there was something we could do to help him raise the money but I have no ideas. Has anyone entertained the thought of having a D B Cooper Days at an alternate site until Bryan has the store reopened ?
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2219 on: August 09, 2017, 04:18:47 PM »
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A strong aviation presence has been a fact in the State of Washington for many years, as part of the Military Industrial Complex. That fact may be connected to Cooper's choice of the State of Washington to conduct his hijacking (a  political part of his Grudge). It may also connect to Cooper's identity. In 1971, Ted Kaczynski decided to leave civilisation (academia) in California to hold up in a cabin in Montana, then started his bombing campaign. Later the same year, 1971, Cooper conducted his hijacking and vanished.     

There is a series on the Unabomber now airing on cable TV and I have just finished viewing the latest episode this evening.  One FBI agent and one linguist from somewhere, maybe academia, have been going thru the Unabomber's manifesto (this is before it was published by the national media) and coming up with conclusions that contradict the "official profile" as developed by the FBI old timers, who are directing the Unabomber Task Force and have a low opinion of linguistics.

I think the methodology of the linguists is VERY interesting and I highly recommend this show.  There are several more episodes to go.


I agree Robert! The show is fantastic! I will point out that one of the first profiles of the UNABomber was from John Douglass and it was pretty damn close to being spot on. He theorized that "...the offender as being of above-average intelligence and with connections to academia. The theory was refined to the offender being a neo-Luddite holding an academic degree in hard sciences." The FBI then apparently decided to not believe this profile and went to their "airline mechanic" profile.

It's interesting because with DBC, the FBI seemed to refuse to have an open mind and consider other options but with the UNAbomber; they seemed almost too willing to jump from profile to profile.

The female linguist from academia who was assisting the FBI was absolutely sensational.  From the manifesto she concluded that the author had written a PhD dissertation during a certain short period of time, which helped to determine his age range. And that he was from the Chicago area and was familiar with the efforts of the Chicago Tribune's owner to make some changes in the English language, which also helped pinpoint his age range.  This linguist came up with just about everything except the Unabomber's name, phone number, and where he got his PhD.

Do you think we could invite the linguist to meet us at a Mexican restaurant and explain how the hole in the platter of chips relates to Cooper? ;D

At this point, I'm willing to try anything. :))

It was based on dissertation styles which differ institution to institution and formal styles that change at institutions over time. After they had Ted in custody they were able to obtain his early writings and compare the manifesto content with those writings. But! Bare in mind none of this was guaranteed to work in Court (be admissible)! The next stage is crucial to conviction. Other players (from Ted's own family) now get involved and they hire someone to do a separate analysis ... the best is yet to come. This leads to ideolect being proven as a viable forensic method. 

People parse things linguistically as part of their individual thought patterns. Some tests look for these associations. The discipline is called Ed Psych Measurement - it connects with certain areas of Linguistics and Semantic analysis. Ed Psych Measurement has its own body of statistical methods developed by people like Seashore, Lindquist, Hieronymus, etal. 

Years ago if you recall I asked: where does 'get the show on the road' originate from ... where geographically is it a most used dialectical expression. Turns out the phrase may have originated in .... Chicago. While the phrase it is almost universally used today, in the 70s it may have seen its highest useage in the Midwest. Did Cooper come from the Midwest? It's a weak association but an example of the kind of linguistic analysis which can lead to an identification. 
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 04:37:24 PM by georger »