Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.2%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.2%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.5%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.5%)
100 Cooper lived
25 (38.5%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 3213548 times)

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2040 on: June 02, 2017, 01:34:48 AM »
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Robert,
Sorry But I'm open minded and nobody knows the actual true flight plan including you. You may have done tons of work but where's your proof that your flight plan is the correct one ?

Kermit,

You are mistaken.  Some people do know the actual flight path.  This has also been discussed at length elsewhere.

 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2041 on: June 02, 2017, 01:51:26 AM »
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Robert,
Sorry But I'm open minded and nobody knows the actual true flight plan including you. You may have done tons of work but where's your proof that your flight plan is the correct one ?

Kermit,

You are mistaken.  Some people do know the actual flight path.  This has also been discussed at length elsewhere.

When you state I am mistaken, you are only stating your opinion. You think you know but the flight plan is still open to many many opinions and theories.
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2042 on: June 02, 2017, 02:02:01 AM »
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Robert,
Sorry But I'm open minded and nobody knows the actual true flight plan including you. You may have done tons of work but where's your proof that your flight plan is the correct one ?

Kermit,

You are mistaken.  Some people do know the actual flight path.  This has also been discussed at length elsewhere.

When you state I am mistaken, you are only stating your opinion. You think you know but the flight plan is still open to many many opinions and theories.

You are mistaken again.  There is only one flight path (not flight "plan") that the airliner followed from Seattle to Reno and it is not a theory or opinion.  If you do some background reading on this matter you will discover the reasons for the 19 redactions in the Seattle ATC radio transcripts.
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2043 on: June 02, 2017, 11:01:25 AM »
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Robert,
Sorry But I'm open minded and nobody knows the actual true flight plan including you. You may have done tons of work but where's your proof that your flight plan is the correct one ?

Kermit,

You are mistaken.  Some people do know the actual flight path.  This has also been discussed at length elsewhere.

When you state I am mistaken, you are only stating your opinion. You think you know but the flight plan is still open to many many opinions and theories.

You are mistaken again.  There is only one flight path (not flight "plan") that the airliner followed from Seattle to Reno and it is not a theory or opinion.  If you do some background reading on this matter you will discover the reasons for the 19 redactions in the Seattle ATC radio transcripts.

You really think you know everything and guess what ? You don't ! So stop telling me I'm mistaken ! I could tell you a lot of things about Portland and area but why waste my time !
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2044 on: June 02, 2017, 12:53:06 PM »
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Robert,
Sorry But I'm open minded and nobody knows the actual true flight plan including you. You may have done tons of work but where's your proof that your flight plan is the correct one ?

Kermit,

You are mistaken.  Some people do know the actual flight path.  This has also been discussed at length elsewhere.

When you state I am mistaken, you are only stating your opinion. You think you know but the flight plan is still open to many many opinions and theories.

You are mistaken again.  There is only one flight path (not flight "plan") that the airliner followed from Seattle to Reno and it is not a theory or opinion.  If you do some background reading on this matter you will discover the reasons for the 19 redactions in the Seattle ATC radio transcripts.

You really think you know everything and guess what ? You don't ! So stop telling me I'm mistaken ! I could tell you a lot of things about Portland and area but why waste my time !

Kermit, I really hate to have to tell you this but you are still mistaken.

If I knew everything I wouldn't have wasted a lot of time and effort over the last few years with FOIA requests to the FBI and FAA in an effort to obtain the information that is needed to actually determine the flight path of the airliner while it was in the Portland area.  As you may know, this effort is documented elsewhere on this site.

I didn't learn anything new about the airliner's flight path but I did gain some more knowledge about fat-assed and fat-headed government bureaucracies operating in full CYA mode.

« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 12:54:05 PM by Robert99 »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2045 on: June 02, 2017, 01:50:34 PM »
without positive proof of anything can one state another is mistaken. a theory is just that, it's a possibility. I don't know exactly where the plane was on November 24, 1971, and I don't think many others do either. some theories are better than others, and some are opinions while others have some evidence to support that theory.

Viewing things from all angles is where forward motion will continue, if we stop the forward motion we get stuck and can't continue. a lot of evidence supports the flight being around V23, proving it was miles from that takes a lot of proof to over come what so many claim. I'm not stating this as fact, but I also see holes in theories placed on this forum. I see a lot of things in this case that have been mistaken, so everyone's input shouldn't be past off as inaccurate or wrong if we don't have all the facts..we are slowly getting right back into the samethings that happened on the DZ...

Shutter
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2046 on: June 02, 2017, 02:43:08 PM »
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without positive proof of anything can one state another is mistaken. a theory is just that, it's a possibility. I don't know exactly where the plane was on November 24, 1971, and I don't think many others do either. some theories are better than others, and some are opinions while others have some evidence to support that theory.

Viewing things from all angles is where forward motion will continue, if we stop the forward motion we get stuck and can't continue. a lot of evidence supports the flight being around V23, proving it was miles from that takes a lot of proof to over come what so many claim. I'm not stating this as fact, but I also see holes in theories placed on this forum. I see a lot of things in this case that have been mistaken, so everyone's input shouldn't be past off as inaccurate or wrong if we don't have all the facts..we are slowly getting right back into the samethings that happened on the DZ...

Shutter

This is why I and a few others have been after the people who 'did' have facts. Most of those in the military. The FBI and NWA were entirely dependent on McChord for help in this whole matter.

The flight path could be determined from the Seattle ATC transcripts if the 19 redactions were not made.  Any 16-year-old boy or girl who was ready to take the written test for a private pilots power license could do this.  It is that simple.

Neither the SEATAC tower in Seattle, the Oakland ATC Center, or the Reno tower had any problems in producing complete transcripts of their radio contacts with the airliner and they collectively did not have a single redaction.

Without question, the 19 redactions in the Seattle ATC radio transcripts were deliberate with the intention of removing any reference points for the airliner's location at any time.  This could not have been done accidentally.
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2047 on: June 02, 2017, 02:47:42 PM »
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without positive proof of anything can one state another is mistaken. a theory is just that, it's a possibility. I don't know exactly where the plane was on November 24, 1971, and I don't think many others do either. some theories are better than others, and some are opinions while others have some evidence to support that theory.

Viewing things from all angles is where forward motion will continue, if we stop the forward motion we get stuck and can't continue. a lot of evidence supports the flight being around V23, proving it was miles from that takes a lot of proof to over come what so many claim. I'm not stating this as fact, but I also see holes in theories placed on this forum. I see a lot of things in this case that have been mistaken, so everyone's input shouldn't be past off as inaccurate or wrong if we don't have all the facts..we are slowly getting right back into the samethings that happened on the DZ...

Shutter

This is why I and a few others have been after the people who 'did' have facts. Most of those in the military. The FBI and NWA were entirely dependent on McChord for help in this whole matter.

The flight path could be determined from the Seattle ATC transcripts if the 19 redactions were not made.  Any 16-year-old boy or girl who was ready to take the written test for a private pilots power license could do this.  It is that simple.

Neither the SEATAC tower in Seattle, the Oakland ATC Center, or the Reno tower had any problems in producing complete transcripts of their radio contacts with the airliner and they collectively did not have a single redaction.

Without question, the 19 redactions in the Seattle ATC radio transcripts were deliberate with the intention of removing any reference points for the airliner's location at any time.  This could not have been done accidentally.

I know. The issue is on the table front and center.

Good. 
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2048 on: June 02, 2017, 07:42:39 PM »
Bruce might be interested in this: a psychic who claims to able to communicate with dead skydivers.  Good niche market for clever charlatans who prey on the distressed. That's just my cynical closed minded opinion.

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Brian Germain, a famous skydiver, author and canopy designer is promoting her on dropzone.com as the real deal.

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My fellow jumpers attacked Germain like piranhas. Haven't seen this kind of venom on dropzone since the Cooper forum was active.

377

 
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MeyerLouie

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2049 on: June 02, 2017, 11:07:23 PM »
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Robert,
Sorry But I'm open minded and nobody knows the actual true flight plan including you. You may have done tons of work but where's your proof that your flight plan is the correct one ?

Kermit,

You are mistaken.  Some people do know the actual flight path.  This has also been discussed at length elsewhere.

When you state I am mistaken, you are only stating your opinion. You think you know but the flight plan is still open to many many opinions and theories.

You are mistaken again.  There is only one flight path (not flight "plan") that the airliner followed from Seattle to Reno and it is not a theory or opinion.  If you do some background reading on this matter you will discover the reasons for the 19 redactions in the Seattle ATC radio transcripts.


I guess I'm not following -- How can there be a confirmed single flight path with 19 redactions?  I have never been convinced that the flight path had ever been nailed down rock solid.  We have what Rataczack said, and he changed his story a few times.  We have RH's version, and others.  Nothing significant was found in the original FBI LZ -- which makes one question if they even had that right to begin with.  A rock solid flight path?  I'm not convinced.

Meyer   
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 11:09:00 PM by MeyerLouie »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2050 on: June 03, 2017, 04:11:30 AM »
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Bruce might be interested in this: a psychic who claims to able to communicate with dead skydivers.  Good niche market for clever charlatans who prey on the distressed. That's just my cynical closed minded opinion.

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Brian Germain, a famous skydiver, author and canopy designer is promoting her on dropzone.com as the real deal.

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My fellow jumpers attacked Germain like piranhas. Haven't seen this kind of venom on dropzone since the Cooper forum was active.

377

Interesting, 377. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. Although the DZ had its woeful excesses, I did enjoy the juicy banter.

As for talking to the dead, or at least deceased skydivers, the subject doesn't hold much interest for me. Except for DBC. Is Germain up for chatting with Danny Boy?
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2051 on: June 03, 2017, 01:28:28 PM »
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Georger...I am not suggesting that he purchased this stuff over the counter. I believe based on the facts that its plausible that he was able to obtain this stuff through the military somehow. I believe that Modafinil is controlled (schedule 2 maybe) so I agree; I do not believe its sold over the counter. To be honest with you, I have no idea if it was used obviously; its just a though. Some of the members were bringing up ideas earlier pertaining to stimulants and it came to my mind when I was reading it.

People state that DBC's left very few clues; I kind of think he left more...we just haven't figured them out yet.

I also agree Cooper left a number of clues but it seems that the FBI has tried to convince us he was not very bright and jumped to a certain death. Let's discuss a few.
1. The FBI says " Why would Cooper choose to jump at night into a freezing cold storm " ?  My answer is simple ... because he didn't want to get caught ! If he jumped in the daylight on a clear beautiful day, he would be picked up almost before he landed.
2. Cooper's whole plan was based on jumping out of a plane at night with what amounts to $1,200,000.
This tells me it was not his first jump. Also 777 told us clearly that nobody he has ever witnessed who did their first jumped were ever NOT VERY SCARED. Only a complete idiot would do this under those conditions. Cooper did nothing on this whole caper to tell me he was that dumb.
I like to look at things from a logical perspective. Lots of times logic will solve mysteries. We know with 100% certainty that Cooper flew from Portland to Seattle. If I flew on that flight it would be pretty much impossible NOT to notice this huge river that flows right next to the airport runway right ? If I was going to jump out of this plane on the return trip, common sense tells me to NOT land in this river. Do any of you jumpers think there is ANY chance to survive if you would land in the Columbia ? Both the pilots reported seeing the lights of Vancouver and Portland. It doesn't seem like a stretch to think Cooper must have seen the same thing ! I guess it's all in whether you believe he died in the jump or he survived the jump. If he was experienced, he would have avoided the river !
I think the Money find at Tina Bar could have arrived there without a plant and also without a no pull. Of course being open minded, i see merit in no pull also. But why be closed minded ?

The consensus is, 305 went by Portland on the west side. How far west and on what vector (from where) seems to be the only question.

Note* when I say vector I mean 'vector' and not Victor

I just wanted to note that Both Vancouver and Portland's downtown city centers lie WEST of the I 5 Interstate. Also Portland is 8 or 9 miles SOUTH of Vancouver. Of course so is Tina Bar quite a few miles West of I 5. If what Rataczak says is anywhere close to accurate, why is the exact position of aircraft when it passed Portland so important as Cooper was long gone BEFORE the plane crossed over the Columbia river. I have flown in and out of PDX at least 100 times and airplanes seldom or ever flew directly over Portland City Center.

 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2052 on: June 03, 2017, 03:09:06 PM »
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Georger...I am not suggesting that he purchased this stuff over the counter. I believe based on the facts that its plausible that he was able to obtain this stuff through the military somehow. I believe that Modafinil is controlled (schedule 2 maybe) so I agree; I do not believe its sold over the counter. To be honest with you, I have no idea if it was used obviously; its just a though. Some of the members were bringing up ideas earlier pertaining to stimulants and it came to my mind when I was reading it.

People state that DBC's left very few clues; I kind of think he left more...we just haven't figured them out yet.

I also agree Cooper left a number of clues but it seems that the FBI has tried to convince us he was not very bright and jumped to a certain death. Let's discuss a few.
1. The FBI says " Why would Cooper choose to jump at night into a freezing cold storm " ?  My answer is simple ... because he didn't want to get caught ! If he jumped in the daylight on a clear beautiful day, he would be picked up almost before he landed.
2. Cooper's whole plan was based on jumping out of a plane at night with what amounts to $1,200,000.
This tells me it was not his first jump. Also 777 told us clearly that nobody he has ever witnessed who did their first jumped were ever NOT VERY SCARED. Only a complete idiot would do this under those conditions. Cooper did nothing on this whole caper to tell me he was that dumb.
I like to look at things from a logical perspective. Lots of times logic will solve mysteries. We know with 100% certainty that Cooper flew from Portland to Seattle. If I flew on that flight it would be pretty much impossible NOT to notice this huge river that flows right next to the airport runway right ? If I was going to jump out of this plane on the return trip, common sense tells me to NOT land in this river. Do any of you jumpers think there is ANY chance to survive if you would land in the Columbia ? Both the pilots reported seeing the lights of Vancouver and Portland. It doesn't seem like a stretch to think Cooper must have seen the same thing ! I guess it's all in whether you believe he died in the jump or he survived the jump. If he was experienced, he would have avoided the river !
I think the Money find at Tina Bar could have arrived there without a plant and also without a no pull. Of course being open minded, i see merit in no pull also. But why be closed minded ?

The consensus is, 305 went by Portland on the west side. How far west and on what vector (from where) seems to be the only question.

Note* when I say vector I mean 'vector' and not Victor

I just wanted to note that Both Vancouver and Portland's downtown city centers lie WEST of the I 5 Interstate. Also Portland is 8 or 9 miles SOUTH of Vancouver. Of course so is Tina Bar quite a few miles West of I 5. If what Rataczak says is anywhere close to accurate, why is the exact position of aircraft when it passed Portland so important as Cooper was long gone BEFORE the plane crossed over the Columbia river. I have flown in and out of PDX at least 100 times and airplanes seldom or ever flew directly over Portland City Center.

Frankly, I dont know that it is that important. Except that people in the past have made it important, namely the idiot Blevins and Himmelsbach's friend Jerry Thomas who insists (according to Himmelsbach and Rataczak), 305 came in across the TROUTDALE AIRPORT!  way east of Portland, having flown south through the drainage basin of the Washougal River.

All of these permutations are designed to account for the money being at Tina Bar. It's really that simple.

That is why its important ... to some. The rest of us are then given the job of replying to it ...  :))   

*Quite frankly Kermit, much of this has to do with the way forums have been run and what people have posted in forums since say 2006, than anything thing else. What people have brought to the table in supposed facts has been biased. And almost nothing has diluted that over the years. We sit today with the self-same arguments and data people introduced over a decade ago, and Carr wasn't much help. I mean for example, we have literally had "nobody" who actually worked on the flight path here in person to speak for their side of the argument - nobody from NWA or the AirForce and it was those people who examined the flight path. The only three people who actually tried to offer an analysis (real numbers) are Sluggo, Kaye, and R99. Everything else has just been "opinions" coming in from every possible angle. That void allowed people to start talking about the Tina Bar money being a plant.

So far, there is no direct connection between a flight path and the money at Tina Bar.

The importance is proportional to the "struggles" people have gone through trying to make any sense of this and connect all the dots ... flight path to money on the ground. By comparison the placard find is easy with a direct cause-and-effect connection.

The only thing I can identify is:  people seem to ignore the crucial role the Air Force played in this whole story. People have tried to say NWA was responsible for the flight path map and dz estimates/searches. That's just not true! And I can prove it. I've been saying this for years but nobody listens. The Air Force's role in the Cooper hijacking has been largely ignored in favor of more glamorous social  personalities who attract higher forum ratings for whatever reason! Drama sells better than facts!     
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 03:33:36 PM by georger »
 
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Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2053 on: June 03, 2017, 03:34:21 PM »
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Georger...I am not suggesting that he purchased this stuff over the counter. I believe based on the facts that its plausible that he was able to obtain this stuff through the military somehow. I believe that Modafinil is controlled (schedule 2 maybe) so I agree; I do not believe its sold over the counter. To be honest with you, I have no idea if it was used obviously; its just a though. Some of the members were bringing up ideas earlier pertaining to stimulants and it came to my mind when I was reading it.

People state that DBC's left very few clues; I kind of think he left more...we just haven't figured them out yet.

I also agree Cooper left a number of clues but it seems that the FBI has tried to convince us he was not very bright and jumped to a certain death. Let's discuss a few.
1. The FBI says " Why would Cooper choose to jump at night into a freezing cold storm " ?  My answer is simple ... because he didn't want to get caught ! If he jumped in the daylight on a clear beautiful day, he would be picked up almost before he landed.
2. Cooper's whole plan was based on jumping out of a plane at night with what amounts to $1,200,000.
This tells me it was not his first jump. Also 777 told us clearly that nobody he has ever witnessed who did their first jumped were ever NOT VERY SCARED. Only a complete idiot would do this under those conditions. Cooper did nothing on this whole caper to tell me he was that dumb.
I like to look at things from a logical perspective. Lots of times logic will solve mysteries. We know with 100% certainty that Cooper flew from Portland to Seattle. If I flew on that flight it would be pretty much impossible NOT to notice this huge river that flows right next to the airport runway right ? If I was going to jump out of this plane on the return trip, common sense tells me to NOT land in this river. Do any of you jumpers think there is ANY chance to survive if you would land in the Columbia ? Both the pilots reported seeing the lights of Vancouver and Portland. It doesn't seem like a stretch to think Cooper must have seen the same thing ! I guess it's all in whether you believe he died in the jump or he survived the jump. If he was experienced, he would have avoided the river !
I think the Money find at Tina Bar could have arrived there without a plant and also without a no pull. Of course being open minded, i see merit in no pull also. But why be closed minded ?

The consensus is, 305 went by Portland on the west side. How far west and on what vector (from where) seems to be the only question.

Note* when I say vector I mean 'vector' and not Victor

I just wanted to note that Both Vancouver and Portland's downtown city centers lie WEST of the I 5 Interstate. Also Portland is 8 or 9 miles SOUTH of Vancouver. Of course so is Tina Bar quite a few miles West of I 5. If what Rataczak says is anywhere close to accurate, why is the exact position of aircraft when it passed Portland so important as Cooper was long gone BEFORE the plane crossed over the Columbia river. I have flown in and out of PDX at least 100 times and airplanes seldom or ever flew directly over Portland City Center.

I believe the boundaries of Vancouver and Portland are in the middle (more or less) of the Columbia River and thus the two cities adjoin each other.  The Portland International Airport is on the south side of the Columbia River and just a relatively few feet from the water's edge.  There is a road between the river and PIA.

Where the city centers are located is anyone's guess based on my experience in that area.  Portland appears to be several smaller towns that joined together to form Portland.  There is a business district (more or less again) in the southwestern part of Portland and I think it is actually on the west side (barely) of I-5.

The flight crew didn't actually know that Cooper had jumped when they landed in Reno.  They specifically asked the tower to get them a parking space on the ramp as far as possible from buildings under the assumption that Cooper and the bomb were still onboard.

If the airliner flew direct from the Malay Intersection to the Canby Intersection, as appears to be likely based on markings on the "FBI map" and other factors, then the airliner passed about 1000 feet west of Tina Bar at almost exactly the same time the flight crew heard the aft stairs slam shut.

The above has been discussed at length in numerous other places on this site and DZ.
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2054 on: June 03, 2017, 03:54:44 PM »
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Georger...I am not suggesting that he purchased this stuff over the counter. I believe based on the facts that its plausible that he was able to obtain this stuff through the military somehow. I believe that Modafinil is controlled (schedule 2 maybe) so I agree; I do not believe its sold over the counter. To be honest with you, I have no idea if it was used obviously; its just a though. Some of the members were bringing up ideas earlier pertaining to stimulants and it came to my mind when I was reading it.

People state that DBC's left very few clues; I kind of think he left more...we just haven't figured them out yet.

I also agree Cooper left a number of clues but it seems that the FBI has tried to convince us he was not very bright and jumped to a certain death. Let's discuss a few.
1. The FBI says " Why would Cooper choose to jump at night into a freezing cold storm " ?  My answer is simple ... because he didn't want to get caught ! If he jumped in the daylight on a clear beautiful day, he would be picked up almost before he landed.
2. Cooper's whole plan was based on jumping out of a plane at night with what amounts to $1,200,000.
This tells me it was not his first jump. Also 777 told us clearly that nobody he has ever witnessed who did their first jumped were ever NOT VERY SCARED. Only a complete idiot would do this under those conditions. Cooper did nothing on this whole caper to tell me he was that dumb.
I like to look at things from a logical perspective. Lots of times logic will solve mysteries. We know with 100% certainty that Cooper flew from Portland to Seattle. If I flew on that flight it would be pretty much impossible NOT to notice this huge river that flows right next to the airport runway right ? If I was going to jump out of this plane on the return trip, common sense tells me to NOT land in this river. Do any of you jumpers think there is ANY chance to survive if you would land in the Columbia ? Both the pilots reported seeing the lights of Vancouver and Portland. It doesn't seem like a stretch to think Cooper must have seen the same thing ! I guess it's all in whether you believe he died in the jump or he survived the jump. If he was experienced, he would have avoided the river !
I think the Money find at Tina Bar could have arrived there without a plant and also without a no pull. Of course being open minded, i see merit in no pull also. But why be closed minded ?

The consensus is, 305 went by Portland on the west side. How far west and on what vector (from where) seems to be the only question.

Note* when I say vector I mean 'vector' and not Victor

I just wanted to note that Both Vancouver and Portland's downtown city centers lie WEST of the I 5 Interstate. Also Portland is 8 or 9 miles SOUTH of Vancouver. Of course so is Tina Bar quite a few miles West of I 5. If what Rataczak says is anywhere close to accurate, why is the exact position of aircraft when it passed Portland so important as Cooper was long gone BEFORE the plane crossed over the Columbia river. I have flown in and out of PDX at least 100 times and airplanes seldom or ever flew directly over Portland City Center.


Where the city centers are located is anyone's guess based on my experience in that area.  Portland appears to be several smaller towns that joined together to form Portland.  There is a business district (more or less again) in the southwestern part of Portland and I think it is actually on the west side (barely) of I-5.


There is no guessing -- no question -- about where Portland's city center is.  Portland, like all bigger US cities, has suburbs -- but there is no mistake about where downtown is.  I worked in downtown Portland for two years.  What is unusual about Portland -- my boss at the USFS, in downtown Portland, and I used to talk about this very topic --  downtown Portland is on the west side of the Willamette River but most of the city proper itself is on the east side of the Willamette River.  I guess that's why Portland has all those bridges.  Quite unusual as far as big cities go.  Downtown Portland lies to the west. 

I agree with Kermit, planes rarely flew directly over city center Portland....and an airplane with a guy in it claiming to have a bomb would very definitely NOT fly over city center Portland -- for obvious reasons.
Meyer
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 03:59:10 PM by MeyerLouie »