Author Topic: Book Discussion About DB Cooper  (Read 129527 times)

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #405 on: May 06, 2021, 12:25:35 AM »
Georger:
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This is but one of a few efforts on the Columbia to track debris flow. One would quickly conclude that debris from east of the I-5 bridge could quite easily end up on Tena Bar.
“Completely unhinged”
 
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Online Robert99

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #406 on: May 06, 2021, 01:50:55 AM »
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Georger:
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This is but one of a few efforts on the Columbia to track debris flow. One would quickly conclude that debris from east of the I-5 bridge could quite easily end up on Tena Bar.

Chaucer, take a look at the link you posted above.  The link describes a 2016/2017 survey of debris on the OREGON side of the Columbia River and not the Tena Bar area.  So far as I can see, the Washington side of the Columbia River is not even mentioned.
 

Online Robert99

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #407 on: May 06, 2021, 02:19:14 AM »
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Quote
Chaucer apparently believes that Tosaw thought Cooper landed in the Columbia River near the I-5 bridge (which I don't believe existed in 1971).

Tosaw’s book, page 108:

“It was then I began to accept the idea of Cooper’s Columbia landing... An FAA aeronautical chart disclosed that Victor 23 crossed the Columbia about two miles upriver from the I-5 bridge that connects Vancouver and Portland. Now I knew not only how the money got into the Columbia but also where in the river it hit. “

Quote
The airliner was flying almost straight south (about 178 degrees true to be exact) on the WFP when it overflew Tena Bar.
No, it wasn’t because there is no such thing as a Western Flight Path except in your imagination.

Quote
If Cooper landed in the water near the I-5 bridge as a no-pull, then the airliner would have been almost directly overhead of that bridge when he jumped.  If Cooper landed in the water near the I-5 bridge under canopy, then the airliner could have been as much as 8 miles or so southwest of that bridge when he jumped if he opened immediately.  If he delayed opening, then the airliner could have been somewhere between 8 miles southwest of the bridge.
The plane approached the I-5 bridge from the northeast.

Quote
Since the WFP passes only about three miles west of the I-5 bridge, the WFP stays in the mix.
No, it doesn’t because the WFP is a myth.

Quote
Anyone with even a basic understanding of fluid dynamics, the general energy equation, or even high school level physics, knows that if Cooper landed in the water near the I-5 bridge and drowned, then his body and equipment would have been on the Oregon side of the Columbia after the river turns north.
Or you can actually talk to the people who track river debris at this part of the river and review their data. If you did, you’d know that what you wrote is inaccurate. Also, you are completely disregarding other variables such as ship wakes, weather, and flooding.

Quote
This means that when Cooper passed Tena Bar, his body and equipment would probably have been on the bottom of the shipping channel and very near the Oregon edge of the river.
False. Please speak with the kind folks at the Lower Columbia Estuary Partnership. They track and map debris accumulations for this part of the river. Debris from beyond the I-5 bridge does accumulate on the Tena Bar side of the Columbia.

Quote
Basically, the above means that there is no way on God's Green Earth that the money found at Tena Bar got there from normal river flow

Wrong. See above.

Quote
Cooper did not land in the Columbia River, drown, and then drift downstream.
You’re probably right, but not for the reasons you listed.

Quote
I'm sure we will have to go over this again in another month or so.
Only if you continue to insist that you are right in the face of facts.

Chaucer, just more of your nonsense.  The following has been explained any number of times before, but here we go again! 

Just because V-23 crosses the Columbia at a certain point doesn't mean that the airliner was even on V-23.  In the 1971 time frame, V-23 was 10 statute miles wide (5 statute miles on each side of the V-23 centerline).  And if you will take a look at the so-called FBI flight path, and make some effort to understand what you are looking at, you will conclude that the airliner was definitely not on the centerline of V-23 in the vicinity of Portland International Airport.

On the matter of debris washing up at Tena Bar, this has been discussed at length here for the last 11 years that I am aware of.  And if you would pay a visit to Tena Bar, you might be surprised at how little debris is there and what is there (beer cans and such) probably came from the fishermen who visit Tena Bar.  Also, some debris may come from the Marina that is in the channel between Caterpillar Island and the east shore of the Columbia River.

Also, as I have repeatedly posted over the years, the money was probably deposited at Tena Bar during a flood event that moved it from a ground location that is higher than the location where it was found.

Responding to such trivial claims is a complete waste of time since they will be repeated again in the near future.  Chaucer, do you know what the general energy equation represents? 
 
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Online Robert99

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #408 on: May 06, 2021, 02:25:02 AM »
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Chaucer apparently believes that Tosaw thought Cooper landed in the Columbia River near the I-5 bridge (which I don't believe existed in 1971).

Tosaw’s book, page 108:

“It was then I began to accept the idea of Cooper’s Columbia landing... An FAA aeronautical chart disclosed that Victor 23 crossed the Columbia about two miles upriver from the I-5 bridge that connects Vancouver and Portland. Now I knew not only how the money got into the Columbia but also where in the river it hit. “

Quote
The airliner was flying almost straight south (about 178 degrees true to be exact) on the WFP when it overflew Tena Bar.
No, it wasn’t because there is no such thing as a Western Flight Path except in your imagination.

Quote
If Cooper landed in the water near the I-5 bridge as a no-pull, then the airliner would have been almost directly overhead of that bridge when he jumped.  If Cooper landed in the water near the I-5 bridge under canopy, then the airliner could have been as much as 8 miles or so southwest of that bridge when he jumped if he opened immediately.  If he delayed opening, then the airliner could have been somewhere between 8 miles southwest of the bridge.
The plane approached the I-5 bridge from the northeast.

Quote
Since the WFP passes only about three miles west of the I-5 bridge, the WFP stays in the mix.
No, it doesn’t because the WFP is a myth.

Quote
Anyone with even a basic understanding of fluid dynamics, the general energy equation, or even high school level physics, knows that if Cooper landed in the water near the I-5 bridge and drowned, then his body and equipment would have been on the Oregon side of the Columbia after the river turns north.
Or you can actually talk to the people who track river debris at this part of the river and review their data. If you did, you’d know that what you wrote is inaccurate. Also, you are completely disregarding other variables such as ship wakes, weather, and flooding.

Quote
This means that when Cooper passed Tena Bar, his body and equipment would probably have been on the bottom of the shipping channel and very near the Oregon edge of the river.
False. Please speak with the kind folks at the Lower Columbia Estuary Partnership. They track and map debris accumulations for this part of the river. Debris from beyond the I-5 bridge does accumulate on the Tena Bar side of the Columbia.

Quote
Basically, the above means that there is no way on God's Green Earth that the money found at Tena Bar got there from normal river flow

Wrong. See above.

Quote
Cooper did not land in the Columbia River, drown, and then drift downstream.
You’re probably right, but not for the reasons you listed.

Quote
I'm sure we will have to go over this again in another month or so.
Only if you continue to insist that you are right in the face of facts.

good job... more will follow when I get time.

* Tell us more about this  Lower Columbia Estuary Partnership  and their tracking of debris as relates to Tina Bar.

Tosaw came to believe the dredging was responsible for the money being at Tina Bar. He thought the tip money Cooper offered the stews was the Ingram find money, and the bagged money tied around Cooper's waste was yet to be found - on the bottom of the Columbia with Cooper's body. Then he changed from dragging the bottom of the river to searching wing dams especially in the area where dredging had occurred. 

The area dredged with spoils placed on Tina Bar was between mile markers 96+38' to 97+17'. See attached. How does that relate to the Lower Columbia Estuary Partnership tracking debris   ?
[/quote]

The dredging also was done in the shipping channel, which is 40 feet deep and located on the western edge (Oregon side) of the Columbia River.  Further, there is absolutely no way that those three packets of bills would be touching each other if they had gone through a dredge. ::)
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #409 on: May 06, 2021, 09:07:08 AM »
Bob,

Your wrong about everything.

First, the LCEP folks HAVE done surveys of the Oregon side, they also have projects on the Washington side. They even have a map detailing debris finds which indicate debris on both sides of the river. Obviously, the areas that they have conducted surveys have more debris. The other areas are populated by finds from citizens who report it to them. Perhaps, you should read the whole website. Better yet, call them, talk to them about their research, and find out what I have. Doubt you will though, because doing so would completely ruin your narrative.

Second, just because you continually post something for 11 years doesn’t make it correct. I could post that Santa Claus is a real guy for the next 11 years,  and it would still be wrong.

Third, we have know way of knowing how the money arrived on Tena Bar, but you’re right about one thing: water DOES flow downhill. And Tena Bar is downhill from the I-5 bridge area. Perhaps the money bag snagged on a log and the log ended up on the beach when the flood waters receded? Who knows?

Also, you can take Bernoulli and shove him right up your ass. I don’t give a shit. You try to come off as a pseudo-intellectual know-it-all when the truth is you are literally wrong about everything regarding this case. You talk about fluid dynamics when in reality your entire narrative depends upon your personal opinion about what the pilots would do and your belief that the FBI was “covering something up”. Let us know what that was when you find out, will you? Meanwhile, your hypotheses completely fall apart when faced with the facts of the case.

Have a great day.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2021, 09:08:22 AM by Chaucer »
“Completely unhinged”
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #410 on: May 06, 2021, 04:12:29 PM »
Santa isn't real? Whoa.....
 

Online Robert99

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #411 on: May 06, 2021, 04:36:58 PM »
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Bob,

Your wrong about everything.

First, the LCEP folks HAVE done surveys of the Oregon side, they also have projects on the Washington side. They even have a map detailing debris finds which indicate debris on both sides of the river. Obviously, the areas that they have conducted surveys have more debris. The other areas are populated by finds from citizens who report it to them. Perhaps, you should read the whole website. Better yet, call them, talk to them about their research, and find out what I have. Doubt you will though, because doing so would completely ruin your narrative.

Second, just because you continually post something for 11 years doesn’t make it correct. I could post that Santa Claus is a real guy for the next 11 years,  and it would still be wrong.

Third, we have know way of knowing how the money arrived on Tena Bar, but you’re right about one thing: water DOES flow downhill. And Tena Bar is downhill from the I-5 bridge area. Perhaps the money bag snagged on a log and the log ended up on the beach when the flood waters receded? Who knows?

Also, you can take Bernoulli and shove him right up your ass. I don’t give a shit. You try to come off as a pseudo-intellectual know-it-all when the truth is you are literally wrong about everything regarding this case. You talk about fluid dynamics when in reality your entire narrative depends upon your personal opinion about what the pilots would do and your belief that the FBI was “covering something up”. Let us know what that was when you find out, will you? Meanwhile, your hypotheses completely fall apart when faced with the facts of the case.

Have a great day.

Chaucer, I have a serious question.  I presume that you are referring to Bernoulli's Equation, with which I am quite familiar.  So seriously, how can I shove an equation up my posterior?  Have you discovered a new scientific principle?

So I am "wrong about everything"?  My original assumption that you might at least have some knowledge of what you are talking about was obviously wrong. :(
 

Offline Lynn

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #412 on: September 08, 2021, 07:06:33 PM »
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Did Danny select his moniker from a comic book? Maybe. Maybe not. I think the latter. If true, though, it's a hellava coincidence.

As for Danny being a Canuck, I feel he was not. To wit: the "negotiable American currency" quote is from a cockpit teletype thingie from 305 to NWO. Is that what Danny actually said? Maybe. Maybe not. Again, I opt for the latter.

If Danny spoke in such intellectualized and arcane language, I think Tina would have picked up on it. Her quote in the Philly-based debrief in a 302 has her stating simply, "he wanted cash." That sounds like the Danny Boy I have come to know and love.

Did a favorable exchange rate motivate a Canadian to cross the border and steal a US jetliner so he could get American buckaroos? Maybe. But I strongly think other, more compelling factors would have guided his thinking.

Look at it this way - flip the premise. Would an American want to cross the border into Canada to jack a plane because he saw some advantage? I wouldn't. There are too many Canadian slang terms that could trip me up along the way, such as someone asking me if a want a "touk?" I had a girlfriend do that on a cold day and I looked at her like she had two heads. Then she explained it was a wool ski cap.

Or someone saying, "Yo, dude, you dropped your toonie." Or shouting "Arrete," while I cross a street in traffic - lots of ways to out a Yankee north o' the border, which may be why those who fly the red maple leaf have turned me down twice for immigration - once to Quebec and once to BC.

Capice?
If no one has already checked this, I just read that in 1971 the Canadian and US dollar were almost at par: $1 US = .99 CDN. (In more recent decades, this has been rare; in fact, certain sectors here depend on the Canadian dollar not getting too high, strange as that sounds - ex. US movie companies are more likely to film here if our dollar's lower. We were at par again a few years back, I believe, and it was a mixed bag.) So there would have been no advantage to going over the border for it. I don't really have an opinion on if he chose his name from the comic books. It would be a helluva coincidence, but it's also a helluva common name. :) I saw a Cannon from the same year, pre-jump, with a character called Dan Cooper. He could simply have picked it out of a phone book. I also have lived in Canada all my life minus 3 years, and I had never heard of the Dan Cooper comics before this case. And we did have comics in French class, mostly TinTin and Asterix.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #413 on: September 12, 2021, 12:20:27 AM »
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Did Danny select his moniker from a comic book? Maybe. Maybe not. I think the latter. If true, though, it's a hellava coincidence.

As for Danny being a Canuck, I feel he was not. To wit: the "negotiable American currency" quote is from a cockpit teletype thingie from 305 to NWO. Is that what Danny actually said? Maybe. Maybe not. Again, I opt for the latter.

If Danny spoke in such intellectualized and arcane language, I think Tina would have picked up on it. Her quote in the Philly-based debrief in a 302 has her stating simply, "he wanted cash." That sounds like the Danny Boy I have come to know and love.

Did a favorable exchange rate motivate a Canadian to cross the border and steal a US jetliner so he could get American buckaroos? Maybe. But I strongly think other, more compelling factors would have guided his thinking.

Look at it this way - flip the premise. Would an American want to cross the border into Canada to jack a plane because he saw some advantage? I wouldn't. There are too many Canadian slang terms that could trip me up along the way, such as someone asking me if a want a "touk?" I had a girlfriend do that on a cold day and I looked at her like she had two heads. Then she explained it was a wool ski cap.

Or someone saying, "Yo, dude, you dropped your toonie." Or shouting "Arrete," while I cross a street in traffic - lots of ways to out a Yankee north o' the border, which may be why those who fly the red maple leaf have turned me down twice for immigration - once to Quebec and once to BC.

Capice?
If no one has already checked this, I just read that in 1971 the Canadian and US dollar were almost at par: $1 US = .99 CDN. (In more recent decades, this has been rare; in fact, certain sectors here depend on the Canadian dollar not getting too high, strange as that sounds - ex. US movie companies are more likely to film here if our dollar's lower. We were at par again a few years back, I believe, and it was a mixed bag.) So there would have been no advantage to going over the border for it. I don't really have an opinion on if he chose his name from the comic books. It would be a helluva coincidence, but it's also a helluva common name. :) I saw a Cannon from the same year, pre-jump, with a character called Dan Cooper. He could simply have picked it out of a phone book. I also have lived in Canada all my life minus 3 years, and I had never heard of the Dan Cooper comics before this case. And we did have comics in French class, mostly TinTin and Asterix.

Thats interesting! Never saw the comic .... what part of Canada did you live in. I love Canada btw. I have strong family ties/history there.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2021, 12:23:57 AM by georger »
 
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #414 on: September 13, 2021, 07:30:26 PM »
is this robert99 or someone else?

new book due 11/24/21


Robert H. Edwards

D. B. Cooper and Flight 305: Reexamining the Hijacking and Disappearance Hardcover – November 24, 2021

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This book looks at the case from the perspective of a mathematician and pilot. It uses previously unexamined data and original-source documents, combined with the tools of statistics, aeronautics, and meteorology, to show where and how the FBI could resume the search and possibly find out at last who "D. B. Cooper" really was.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #415 on: September 13, 2021, 07:50:48 PM »
This is a new Robert. Lives in Eastern Europe. Bulgaria?

He called me about 4-5 years to get the general lay of the land in Cooper World. His book is being published in the UK. Comes out soon, and the editor says she wants to send me a copy so I can review it.

Dr. Edwards has posted some of his findings - I forget where - but I wasn't all that impressed. He is heavy into statistical analysis. Kind of reminded me of What's His Name, PLF Safecracker ?, and his video series on this angle. Bored the hell outta me.

Snow, our beloved Robert99 is a cranky, really old bastard who lives in Arizona. He's older than me, so he's old....
 
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Online Robert99

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #416 on: September 13, 2021, 09:10:00 PM »
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is this robert99 or someone else?

new book due 11/24/21


Robert H. Edwards

D. B. Cooper and Flight 305: Reexamining the Hijacking and Disappearance Hardcover – November 24, 2021

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This book looks at the case from the perspective of a mathematician and pilot. It uses previously unexamined data and original-source documents, combined with the tools of statistics, aeronautics, and meteorology, to show where and how the FBI could resume the search and possibly find out at last who "D. B. Cooper" really was.

Dudeman17, Snowmman, and everyone else.  With apologies to Bruce Smith and other Cooper writers, I strongly suspect that the above book by Dr. Edwards will be the defining publication on the Cooper hijacking.  He knows how to do research and he has indeed developed original sources and information that most of us on this site have never heard of before or perhaps even imagined existed.

Dr. Edwards is a poster here on Shutter's site and has also posted on DropZone.  Dudeman17, refer to my recent PM's to you.  Recently, Snowmman posted something from an unidentified site that was made several years ago by "Robert Isaac Harker" which happens to be Dr. Edwards motion picture screen name.  So he is a very multi-talented person.  He is probably on a first-name basis with everyone in the FBI's FOIA office.

Dr. Edwards lives in England but he has lived in various places around the world including the USA, Canada, Far East, Middle East, Central Europe, etc...

Amazon gives the publication date as November 24, 2021 which, of course, is the 50th anniversary of the hijacking.  Dr. Edwards promised me a complimentary copy of the book a few months ago.  November 24th happens to also be my birthday and this will probably be the best birthday present that I have received in a long, long time. ;D

Amazon lists the pre-publication price as $27.00 and if you are not one of the several people on Shutter's site that have complimentary copies coming, I would suggest that you pre-order it now.
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #417 on: September 13, 2021, 09:24:52 PM »
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is this robert99 or someone else?

new book due 11/24/21


Robert H. Edwards

D. B. Cooper and Flight 305: Reexamining the Hijacking and Disappearance Hardcover – November 24, 2021

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
 
This book looks at the case from the perspective of a mathematician and pilot. It uses previously unexamined data and original-source documents, combined with the tools of statistics, aeronautics, and meteorology, to show where and how the FBI could resume the search and possibly find out at last who "D. B. Cooper" really was.

Dudeman17, Snowmman, and everyone else.  With apologies to Bruce Smith and other Cooper writers, I strongly suspect that the above book by Dr. Edwards will be the defining publication on the Cooper hijacking.  He knows how to do research and he has indeed developed original sources and information that most of us on this site have never heard of before or perhaps even imagined existed.

Dr. Edwards is a poster here on Shutter's site and has also posted on DropZone.  Dudeman17, refer to my recent PM's to you.  Recently, Snowmman posted something from an unidentified site that was made several years ago by "Robert Isaac Harker" which happens to be Dr. Edwards motion picture screen name.  So he is a very multi-talented person.  He is probably on a first-name basis with everyone in the FBI's FOIA office.

Dr. Edwards lives in England but he has lived in various places around the world including the USA, Canada, Far East, Middle East, Central Europe, etc...

Amazon gives the publication date as November 24, 2021 which, of course, is the 50th anniversary of the hijacking.  Dr. Edwards promised me a complimentary copy of the book a few months ago.  November 24th happens to also be my birthday and this will probably be the best birthday present that I have received in a long, long time. ;D

Amazon lists the pre-publication price as $27.00 and if you are not one of the several people on Shutter's site that have complimentary copies coming, I would suggest that you pre-order it now.
So, based on your effusive praise, I guess we are to assume that the author concludes that the plane flew over Tena?
“Completely unhinged”
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #418 on: September 13, 2021, 09:26:05 PM »
sounds good Robert99.

I was just surprised at "previously unexamined data" because it's hard to see what that could be.

and although I won't blame him, I really hate when people tout "math" and "statistics" to try to claim validity upfront.

But I'll read it. I doubt "math" is gonna save the day, because I don't know any math that hasn't been used already. But I guess we'll see.

I don't think anyone's background really applys in the Cooper thing. Too many issues. Very quickly everyone veers into speculating with data that doesn't prove things as strongly as they hope.

I can imagine writing a book that focuses on all the math and other issues that make the case unresolvable. But the idea that he can show where the FBI should resume it's search? and be more right than any other theory? I guess we'll see.


« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 09:26:59 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline Lynn

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #419 on: September 13, 2021, 09:33:23 PM »
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Did Danny select his moniker from a comic book? Maybe. Maybe not. I think the latter. If true, though, it's a hellava coincidence.

As for Danny being a Canuck, I feel he was not. To wit: the "negotiable American currency" quote is from a cockpit teletype thingie from 305 to NWO. Is that what Danny actually said? Maybe. Maybe not. Again, I opt for the latter.

If Danny spoke in such intellectualized and arcane language, I think Tina would have picked up on it. Her quote in the Philly-based debrief in a 302 has her stating simply, "he wanted cash." That sounds like the Danny Boy I have come to know and love.

Did a favorable exchange rate motivate a Canadian to cross the border and steal a US jetliner so he could get American buckaroos? Maybe. But I strongly think other, more compelling factors would have guided his thinking.

Look at it this way - flip the premise. Would an American want to cross the border into Canada to jack a plane because he saw some advantage? I wouldn't. There are too many Canadian slang terms that could trip me up along the way, such as someone asking me if a want a "touk?" I had a girlfriend do that on a cold day and I looked at her like she had two heads. Then she explained it was a wool ski cap.

Or someone saying, "Yo, dude, you dropped your toonie." Or shouting "Arrete," while I cross a street in traffic - lots of ways to out a Yankee north o' the border, which may be why those who fly the red maple leaf have turned me down twice for immigration - once to Quebec and once to BC.

Capice?
If no one has already checked this, I just read that in 1971 the Canadian and US dollar were almost at par: $1 US = .99 CDN. (In more recent decades, this has been rare; in fact, certain sectors here depend on the Canadian dollar not getting too high, strange as that sounds - ex. US movie companies are more likely to film here if our dollar's lower. We were at par again a few years back, I believe, and it was a mixed bag.) So there would have been no advantage to going over the border for it. I don't really have an opinion on if he chose his name from the comic books. It would be a helluva coincidence, but it's also a helluva common name. :) I saw a Cannon from the same year, pre-jump, with a character called Dan Cooper. He could simply have picked it out of a phone book. I also have lived in Canada all my life minus 3 years, and I had never heard of the Dan Cooper comics before this case. And we did have comics in French class, mostly TinTin and Asterix.

Thats interesting! Never saw the comic .... what part of Canada did you live in. I love Canada btw. I have strong family ties/history there.
I've lived all over - Newfoundland, Labrador, Quebec, BC, Ontario. The only part I haven't checked out is the Prairies. Currently in Hamilton, near Toronto. Where do your family live?