Author Topic: Two Back Packs & Two Front Chutes  (Read 74009 times)

Offline snowmman

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Re: Two Back Packs & Two Front Chutes
« Reply #495 on: November 27, 2018, 06:05:39 PM »
The training reserve was likely a 24 foot diameter T-7A right?

They didn't seem to be comparing to two possible Cooper canopies. Only the Cooper back rig.

Over time, the training reserve might have escaped a rotted container.
The container was canvas, the canopy nylon?

This attached memo from 11/26/71  provides more detail on the reserve Cooper took. It's unclear if it's correct, since they describe the taken back rig wrong..they describe the non-taken container.
it says this about the back rig, which makes no sense for the NB6
Chute harness is civilian luxury type made of 50 foot tan cotton material.

but the taken training reserve, probably was similar to the non-taken reserve, just modified?

So I'm thinking this is still a good description of the taken reserve.

A T-7A 24 foot white nylon canopy.

Note they say something about what's inscribed on the reserve. But there was no record of anything inscribed on the training reserve..so they wouldn't have known. I think the SAC messed up here, describing the left-behind reserve.

So it's funny they dismissed a 24 foot canopy, since Cooper probably threw out a training reserve with a 24 foot canopy (modified)

Chest pack type 24 foot white nylon canopy, white nylon shrouds, about 14’ length, model T-7A. Chute container was olive drab green with <redacted> inscribed. Container dimensions are 10” by 14” by 6".


Hey has anyone noticed how smoothly I post full page FBI memos that meet the 200KB per page restriction here?

The FBI memos themselves rarely meet that limit for full page.

All the bits are assembled with loving care.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 06:08:03 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline 377

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Re: Two Back Packs & Two Front Chutes
« Reply #496 on: November 27, 2018, 06:08:42 PM »
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If they are not the same as the container we can't verify a chute with no container. The Amboy chute appears to have the markings of a cargo chute as Cossey suggested..

Personnel canopies have SNs and Cossey would have recorded them in his rigger logbook. All of my military surplus (human carrying) canopies have SNs printed near the skirt band on the so called DATA PANEL.

Canopies and containers do not normally have matching SNs.

377
 

Offline 377

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Re: Two Back Packs & Two Front Chutes
« Reply #497 on: November 27, 2018, 06:10:04 PM »
Snow wrote: "Hey has anyone noticed how smoothly I post full page FBI memos that meet the 200KB per page restriction here?"

Don't rub it in. Yes, I HAVE noticed.

377
 

Offline 377

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Re: Two Back Packs & Two Front Chutes
« Reply #498 on: November 27, 2018, 06:12:52 PM »
Snow wrote: "Over time, the training reserve might have escaped a rotted container.
The container was canvas, the canopy nylon?"

I have seen both canvas and nylon mil surplus reserve containers.

If the canvas rotted it would leave the metal hardware behind and some of it is stainless, other cadmium plated steel, would last a LONG time.

377
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Two Back Packs & Two Front Chutes
« Reply #499 on: November 27, 2018, 06:15:37 PM »
Sounds like we need to contact WSHS and ask them to look at the packing card for the diameter of the chute? Hayden said both were identical, right?
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Two Back Packs & Two Front Chutes
« Reply #500 on: November 27, 2018, 06:21:20 PM »
Bruce did take the picture needed. It's attached.
26' ripstop conical
on the not-taken Hayden back rig

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Sounds like we need to contact WSHS and ask them to look at the packing card for the diameter of the chute? Hayden said both were identical, right?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Two Back Packs & Two Front Chutes
« Reply #501 on: November 27, 2018, 06:30:56 PM »
It's been a while. I only remember the open reverse card portion...

Here in GG's files it's as if they explain 3 chutes on the plane. the one Hayden had is first on the list and the next two appear to be front chutes?
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 06:33:17 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline 377

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Re: Two Back Packs & Two Front Chutes
« Reply #502 on: November 27, 2018, 06:46:00 PM »
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Sounds like we need to contact WSHS and ask them to look at the packing card for the diameter of the chute? Hayden said both were identical, right?

Yes, he said both identical and purchased from a surplus store. 26 ft navy Conical is a great canopy. I literally owe my life to one.

377
 
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Offline 377

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Re: Two Back Packs & Two Front Chutes
« Reply #503 on: November 27, 2018, 06:48:01 PM »
Love it when nobody is fighting and we are discussing physical evidence, esp parachute gear. If only radios were relevant. Cooper was foolish not to take a tunable VHF AM pocket radio to monitor all the comms to and from the plane.

377
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Two Back Packs & Two Front Chutes
« Reply #504 on: November 27, 2018, 06:56:21 PM »
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I had been interested in the chute questions for very few reasons. Did he ask for multiple chutes because there was an accomplice on board (unlikely)? Could his choice of chutes have told us anything about him? (1 in 4? Also unlikely.) Could his choice tell us if he died in the jump? Not unless Mucklow saw him strapping on the trainer.

What are the immediate goals of the chute inquiries? Are they functional or entertaining? Is the goal to ID Cooper or is it a leftover DZ topic that guys like me wouldn't understand? (377, I'm not jumping from anything higher that a car hood.) I feel like I'm missing something when I read the back and forth on this thread. Why do we want to understand the parachute selection, to profile Cooper?

For me, the inquiry into the parachute question is important because it tells us who is lying, or forgetful, or deceptive, or stupid. Or something else. It's like a course correction device to better understand the narrative being delivered on what happened in Norjak.
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Two Back Packs & Two Front Chutes
« Reply #505 on: November 27, 2018, 07:42:34 PM »
Quote
Note they say something about what's inscribed on the reserve. But there was no record of anything inscribed on the training reserve..so they wouldn't have known. I think the SAC messed up here, describing the left-behind reserve.

They could only be talking about the training chute here? it's not reacted as the document above is covering "Norm D"
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 07:47:00 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Two Back Packs & Two Front Chutes
« Reply #506 on: November 27, 2018, 07:57:31 PM »
Here's a pic of Earl Cossey at the 1968 National Championships.

He's wearing his personal rig

Notice it has the pull on the left side (right 377?) the cable housing over his left shoulder, comes down the left shoulder strap

Cossey in his interview with Ckret, talked about the NB6 Cooper had, as being his rig, and that he modified it for the pull under the right armpit.

Here's what Ckret posted on DZ.com. I think this story from Cossey is bullshit

Back to the NB6, Cossey modified the chute, we know that from the 28' canopy. And when we spoke he said he placed the handle under the right armpit. The motion he showed me was that Cooper would have had to hook his right thumb in the handle and push straight out, like a bench press motion. Once fully extended, he would have had to rotate his fully extended arm up over his head.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Two Back Packs & Two Front Chutes
« Reply #507 on: November 27, 2018, 08:02:02 PM »
I think they messed up on the NB6 description.
I don't think the NB6 would have had a harness replaced on it? ...especially not "civilian luxury" ...in other fbi memos, that's the lingo they used on the Pioneer that was left behind.

I think some SAC just messed up copying info.

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Quote
Note they say something about what's inscribed on the reserve. But there was no record of anything inscribed on the training reserve..so they wouldn't have known. I think the SAC messed up here, describing the left-behind reserve.

They could only be talking about the training chute here? it's not reacted as the document above is covering "Norm D"
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Two Back Packs & Two Front Chutes
« Reply #508 on: November 27, 2018, 08:09:08 PM »
Shutter: I had read about the Reed Island parachute find, but don't seem to have the memo you posted.
Where did that come from?

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Quote
Note they say something about what's inscribed on the reserve. But there was no record of anything inscribed on the training reserve..so they wouldn't have known. I think the SAC messed up here, describing the left-behind reserve.

They could only be talking about the training chute here? it's not reacted as the document above is covering "Norm D"
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Two Back Packs & Two Front Chutes
« Reply #509 on: November 27, 2018, 08:10:40 PM »
In our vault..it's under "parachute not amboy" or something like that..