Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tina Bar Money Find  (Read 493784 times)

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4530 on: January 18, 2020, 03:36:02 PM »
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The other big problem with the No-Pull Theory is that the timing simply doesn't add up. The jet could not have made it to a point south (upstream) from Tena Bar by 8:10-8:13.

ACCORDING TO YOU - YOUR VIEWPOINT IS BIASED TO THE EXTREME

Who gives a $#!+ what you think? Your BS characterizations read just like the trolls no longer on this site. Save you lies and smears for people who give a damn. Stop destroying the collegiality that everyone else here has no problem operating within. The problem GEORGER is you and you alone.

That said, I'll give you a chance to provide some facts to back up your assertions that 305 could make it to a point south of Tena Bar by the 8:10-8:13 time frame. A time frame, by the way, that the pilots themselves stated was merely approaching the northern suburbs of the Portland/Vancouver metro area.

I've done the math. I've utilized the radio transcripts. I've utilized the weather data. I've utilized first-hand testimony. All of this to measure the veracity of the timing of the flight.

The results: 305 arriving at a point south of Tena Bar by 8:10-8:13 is not possible. Even the FBI recognized this fact.

Of course, you know better. Moreover, me pointing this out involves some big conspiracy and is motivated by some agenda according to you. What a joke.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4531 on: January 18, 2020, 03:43:55 PM »
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As a matter of fact, if Cooper no-pulled the opportunity for deception did not exist once he stepped off the airstairs.

With this in mind, how is it that nothing was ever found (Tena Bar aside)? It was the cleanest of clean get-aways by accident?

If Cooper was a no-pull and landed in one of those man eating briar patches in the Tina Bar area, then at least part of him and/or what was attached to him is still there.  The three packets of money that were found at Tina Bar were touching or within inches of each other.  This means they arrived at the same time.  And they were probably deposited there during the next spring run off.  The rest of the money bag and whatever remained attached to it kept going downstream.  The dredging which was done after the money was found in 1980 should have been looking for parachutes with perhaps a torso being held together with the raincoat that Cooper was wearing (and long johns if he was actually wearing them) attached to them.  But forget about dredging the river, just check the wing dams downstream from the money find location at Tina Bar.

The wing dams were checked . . . more or less. By several expeditions. Start reading and listening!

In 1971, in the Portland area all rescue, law enforcement entities, hospitals, corners, etc were contacted and asked to report anything that might be related to Cooper. After the money find in 1980 a brand new series of searches were launched, old records re-reviewed, etc... Himmelsbach personally managed all of these searches and he set up liaisons with area divers, salvage people, John Powelson at Aquatic Sports, etc and a network for reporting the results of people searching was created - again by Himmelsbach personally. Dorwin Schreuder worked on that team and it ran for a full two years before Tosaw was even on the scene. Out of all of these searches nothing ever surfaced related to Cooper. Searches included both searches on land and in the Columbia including at wing dams.

DID YOU READ THIS R99 - SO WE DONT HAVE TO GO OVER IT 500 TIMES MORE? 

Georger, you need to read what I wrote.  I didn't say anyone would find Cooper or anything related to him.  I simply said that the places to check would be the wing dams downstream from the money find location.  If nothing related to Cooper was found in those wing dams, assuming nothing was missed, it simply means that it made it further downstream.  I assume you are also going to claim that those man eating briar patches on Caterpillar Island were thoroughly checked as well.

So - you are saying that wing dams are a clearing house for the river - if things dont wind up there they either dont exist or moved on...

I dont believe the FBI ever used you as an expert on How the Columbia works.

You have more stipulations and qualifications than a Chinese lawyer! All in a SPECULATION that is nothing but a speculation - in the first place. 
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 03:44:31 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4532 on: January 18, 2020, 03:44:28 PM »
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The Fazios said the money came up with the last high tide, because, they pointed out, it was right on the high tide line.

The money packets were buried a couple of inches under the sand.  Did the Fazios say that the tide buried them there?
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4533 on: January 18, 2020, 03:46:25 PM »
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As a matter of fact, if Cooper no-pulled the opportunity for deception did not exist once he stepped off the airstairs.

With this in mind, how is it that nothing was ever found (Tena Bar aside)? It was the cleanest of clean get-aways by accident?

If Cooper was a no-pull and landed in one of those man eating briar patches in the Tina Bar area, then at least part of him and/or what was attached to him is still there.  The three packets of money that were found at Tina Bar were touching or within inches of each other.  This means they arrived at the same time.  And they were probably deposited there during the next spring run off.  The rest of the money bag and whatever remained attached to it kept going downstream.  The dredging which was done after the money was found in 1980 should have been looking for parachutes with perhaps a torso being held together with the raincoat that Cooper was wearing (and long johns if he was actually wearing them) attached to them.  But forget about dredging the river, just check the wing dams downstream from the money find location at Tina Bar.

The wing dams were checked . . . more or less. By several expeditions. Start reading and listening!

In 1971, in the Portland area all rescue, law enforcement entities, hospitals, corners, etc were contacted and asked to report anything that might be related to Cooper. After the money find in 1980 a brand new series of searches were launched, old records re-reviewed, etc... Himmelsbach personally managed all of these searches and he set up liaisons with area divers, salvage people, John Powelson at Aquatic Sports, etc and a network for reporting the results of people searching was created - again by Himmelsbach personally. Dorwin Schreuder worked on that team and it ran for a full two years before Tosaw was even on the scene. Out of all of these searches nothing ever surfaced related to Cooper. Searches included both searches on land and in the Columbia including at wing dams.

DID YOU READ THIS R99 - SO WE DONT HAVE TO GO OVER IT 500 TIMES MORE? 

Georger, you need to read what I wrote.  I didn't say anyone would find Cooper or anything related to him.  I simply said that the places to check would be the wing dams downstream from the money find location.  If nothing related to Cooper was found in those wing dams, assuming nothing was missed, it simply means that it made it further downstream.  I assume you are also going to claim that those man eating briar patches on Caterpillar Island were thoroughly checked as well.

So - you are saying that wing dams are a clearing house for the river - if things dont wind up there they either dont exist or moved on...

I dont believe the FBI ever used you as an expert on How the Columbia works.

You have more stipulations and qualifications than a Chinese lawyer! All in a SPECULATION that is nothing but a speculation - in the first place.

If the FBI used you as an "expert on How the Columbia works", then that explains how you got things so screwed up!
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4534 on: January 18, 2020, 03:46:59 PM »
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The Fazios said the money came up with the last high tide, because, they pointed out, it was right on the high tide line.

The money packets were buried a couple of inches under the sand.  Did the Fazios say that the tide buried them there?

Ask the Fazio - go argue with them.  Bye. I have snow to shovel.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4535 on: January 18, 2020, 03:48:57 PM »
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As a matter of fact, if Cooper no-pulled the opportunity for deception did not exist once he stepped off the airstairs.

With this in mind, how is it that nothing was ever found (Tena Bar aside)? It was the cleanest of clean get-aways by accident?

If Cooper was a no-pull and landed in one of those man eating briar patches in the Tina Bar area, then at least part of him and/or what was attached to him is still there.  The three packets of money that were found at Tina Bar were touching or within inches of each other.  This means they arrived at the same time.  And they were probably deposited there during the next spring run off.  The rest of the money bag and whatever remained attached to it kept going downstream.  The dredging which was done after the money was found in 1980 should have been looking for parachutes with perhaps a torso being held together with the raincoat that Cooper was wearing (and long johns if he was actually wearing them) attached to them.  But forget about dredging the river, just check the wing dams downstream from the money find location at Tina Bar.

The wing dams were checked . . . more or less. By several expeditions. Start reading and listening!

In 1971, in the Portland area all rescue, law enforcement entities, hospitals, corners, etc were contacted and asked to report anything that might be related to Cooper. After the money find in 1980 a brand new series of searches were launched, old records re-reviewed, etc... Himmelsbach personally managed all of these searches and he set up liaisons with area divers, salvage people, John Powelson at Aquatic Sports, etc and a network for reporting the results of people searching was created - again by Himmelsbach personally. Dorwin Schreuder worked on that team and it ran for a full two years before Tosaw was even on the scene. Out of all of these searches nothing ever surfaced related to Cooper. Searches included both searches on land and in the Columbia including at wing dams.

DID YOU READ THIS R99 - SO WE DONT HAVE TO GO OVER IT 500 TIMES MORE? 

Georger, you need to read what I wrote.  I didn't say anyone would find Cooper or anything related to him.  I simply said that the places to check would be the wing dams downstream from the money find location.  If nothing related to Cooper was found in those wing dams, assuming nothing was missed, it simply means that it made it further downstream.  I assume you are also going to claim that those man eating briar patches on Caterpillar Island were thoroughly checked as well.

So - you are saying that wing dams are a clearing house for the river - if things dont wind up there they either dont exist or moved on...

I dont believe the FBI ever used you as an expert on How the Columbia works.

You have more stipulations and qualifications than a Chinese lawyer! All in a SPECULATION that is nothing but a speculation - in the first place.

If the FBI used you as an "expert on How the Columbia works", then that explains how you got things so screwed up!

Huh!?  Come back to Earth dude.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4536 on: January 18, 2020, 03:52:29 PM »
Who here has actually discussed the money find with the Fazios? I have, face-to-face multiple times.

The following is my understanding of what Richard Fazio leans towards in terms of an explanation for the money find:

Richard told me that he tends to think that the money was washed up onto Tena Bar very soon before the money was found.

Here's the problem: The rubberbands.

The rubberbands prove that the money could not have washed up onto Tena Bar immediately before February 10, 1980 and self-buried.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 
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Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4537 on: January 18, 2020, 04:23:11 PM »
A few points worth noting:

R99 and I agree on the Western Flight Path. However, we do not agree on Cooper surviving/dying, and the timing of the flight to some degree.

Yet, we have never had a solitary disparaging word pass between the two of us.

Likewise, Bruce Smith and I are probably as far apart on the Cooper case as anyone here. Bruce is more of a conspiracy-type of guy, on the other hand, I am much more vanilla in my beliefs.

Yet again, Bruce and I have never had a solitary disparaging word pass between the two of us.

How is this possible?

This is possible because we are civilized and treat each other with respect.

May I suggest that those who struggle to act in a similar civilized and respectful manner try a little harder?

Better yet, if you feel that someone is flat out wrong about an assertion, perhaps you could present a cogent, fact-based, argument in an attempt to gain a new believer?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4538 on: January 18, 2020, 05:52:32 PM »
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Who here has actually discussed the money find with the Fazios? I have, face-to-face multiple times.

The following is my understanding of what Richard Fazio leans towards in terms of an explanation for the money find:

Richard told me that he tends to think that the money was washed up onto Tena Bar very soon before the money was found.

Here's the problem: The rubberbands.

The rubberbands prove that the money could not have washed up onto Tena Bar immediately before February 10, 1980 and self-buried.

Bands of rubber and your 'theories' ... the Fazios told me the same thing!  immediately before February 10, 1980 and self-buried.  So you arent the only swinging branch who has ever talked to the Fazios!  The FBI not only talked to the Fazios they worked with them! The Fazios were part of the excavation.

The Fazios talked to a lot of people including Tosaw, John Powelson, etal. The Fazios worked with people exploring their beach and other areas including the Columbia btwn Feb 1980 and March 1982... and after. The list of people is as long as your arm in case you dont know. Tosaw, Blake Payne, the Rainey's, the Briggs, (I have a long list), JT knows the Fazios well, Himmelsbach on so any occasions; Himmelsbach lived in Portland fished at Tina's Bar ....


Has Robert Nicholson ever talked to the Fazios?  I dont recall R99 ever saying he has ?

So, the Fazios said: " immediately before February 10, 1980 and self-buried." and the FBI records add: "after the last tide and they identified ( pointed to) the last high tide line."

Dont take my word for it - ask Tom Kaye.  :rofl:

Ask R99!  ;)
 
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 06:14:45 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4539 on: January 18, 2020, 05:53:38 PM »
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The other big problem with the No-Pull Theory is that the timing simply doesn't add up. The jet could not have made it to a point south (upstream) from Tena Bar by 8:10-8:13.

ACCORDING TO YOU - YOUR VIEWPOINT IS BIASED TO THE EXTREME

Who gives a $#!+ what you think? Your BS characterizations read just like the trolls no longer on this site. Save you lies and smears for people who give a damn. Stop destroying the collegiality that everyone else here has no problem operating within. The problem GEORGER is you and you alone.

That said, I'll give you a chance to provide some facts to back up your assertions that 305 could make it to a point south of Tena Bar by the 8:10-8:13 time frame. A time frame, by the way, that the pilots themselves stated was merely approaching the northern suburbs of the Portland/Vancouver metro area.

I've done the math. I've utilized the radio transcripts. I've utilized the weather data. I've utilized first-hand testimony. All of this to measure the veracity of the timing of the flight.

The results: 305 arriving at a point south of Tena Bar by 8:10-8:13 is not possible. Even the FBI recognized this fact.

Of course, you know better. Moreover, me pointing this out involves some big conspiracy and is motivated by some agenda according to you. What a joke.

Who gives a $#!+ what you think?      :rofl:
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4540 on: January 18, 2020, 05:58:23 PM »
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As a matter of fact, if Cooper no-pulled the opportunity for deception did not exist once he stepped off the airstairs.

With this in mind, how is it that nothing was ever found (Tena Bar aside)? It was the cleanest of clean get-aways by accident?

If Cooper was a no-pull and landed in one of those man eating briar patches in the Tina Bar area, then at least part of him and/or what was attached to him is still there.  The three packets of money that were found at Tina Bar were touching or within inches of each other.  This means they arrived at the same time.  And they were probably deposited there during the next spring run off.  The rest of the money bag and whatever remained attached to it kept going downstream.  The dredging which was done after the money was found in 1980 should have been looking for parachutes with perhaps a torso being held together with the raincoat that Cooper was wearing (and long johns if he was actually wearing them) attached to them.  But forget about dredging the river, just check the wing dams downstream from the money find location at Tina Bar.

The wing dams were checked . . . more or less. By several expeditions. Start reading and listening!

In 1971, in the Portland area all rescue, law enforcement entities, hospitals, corners, etc were contacted and asked to report anything that might be related to Cooper. After the money find in 1980 a brand new series of searches were launched, old records re-reviewed, etc... Himmelsbach personally managed all of these searches and he set up liaisons with area divers, salvage people, John Powelson at Aquatic Sports, etc and a network for reporting the results of people searching was created - again by Himmelsbach personally. Dorwin Schreuder worked on that team and it ran for a full two years before Tosaw was even on the scene. Out of all of these searches nothing ever surfaced related to Cooper. Searches included both searches on land and in the Columbia including at wing dams.

DID YOU READ THIS R99 - SO WE DONT HAVE TO GO OVER IT 500 TIMES MORE? 

Georger, you need to read what I wrote.  I didn't say anyone would find Cooper or anything related to him.  I simply said that the places to check would be the wing dams downstream from the money find location.  If nothing related to Cooper was found in those wing dams, assuming nothing was missed, it simply means that it made it further downstream.  I assume you are also going to claim that those man eating briar patches on Caterpillar Island were thoroughly checked as well.

So - you are saying that wing dams are a clearing house for the river - if things dont wind up there they either dont exist or moved on...

I dont believe the FBI ever used you as an expert on How the Columbia works.

You have more stipulations and qualifications than a Chinese lawyer! All in a SPECULATION that is nothing but a speculation - in the first place.

If the FBI used you as an "expert on How the Columbia works", then that explains how you got things so screwed up!

The FBI has never used me as a Columbia expert - why would they - why would you suggest such a ridiculous thing? - but the FBI and others have used real experts who have worked with the Columbia for decades. That doesnt include you. And trust me: everyone knows water runs down hill!
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4541 on: January 18, 2020, 06:08:12 PM »
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A few points worth noting:

R99 and I agree on the Western Flight Path. However, we do not agree on Cooper surviving/dying, and the timing of the flight to some degree.

Yet, we have never had a solitary disparaging word pass between the two of us.

Likewise, Bruce Smith and I are probably as far apart on the Cooper case as anyone here. Bruce is more of a conspiracy-type of guy, on the other hand, I am much more vanilla in my beliefs.

Yet again, Bruce and I have never had a solitary disparaging word pass between the two of us.

How is this possible?

This is possible because we are civilized and treat each other with respect.

May I suggest that those who struggle to act in a similar civilized and respectful manner try a little harder?

Better yet, if you feel that someone is flat out wrong about an assertion, perhaps you could present a cogent, fact-based, argument in an attempt to gain a new believer?

Take your own advice?

This isnt about 'believers'. This is about real evidence. This isnt one of your political campaigns for public office in AZ, CA, etc. Do you have a play for Broadway in the works?

Last time I checked nobody needed sermons on morality here. From you or R99!  Or Blevins - or FLYJACK/HBulljax.   

Burn this in your brain or on the tablet of your heart: """So, the Fazios said: " immediately before February 10, 1980 and self-buried." and the FBI records add: "after the last tide and they identified ( pointed to) the last high tide line."

Ask Tom Kaye or R99!
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 06:21:13 PM by georger »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4542 on: January 18, 2020, 06:21:11 PM »
Speaking of political campaigns, my vote would be to permanently ban GEORGER from this site. His venom accomplishes nothing of merit. His venom contributes nothing of merit. His venom is ruining this site.

Therefore, I will lobby the powers that be to have the sole problem person on this site permanently banned from this site.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4543 on: January 18, 2020, 06:24:38 PM »
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Speaking of political campaigns, my vote would be to permanently ban GEORGER from this site. His venom accomplishes nothing of merit. His venom contributes nothing of merit. His venom is ruining this site.

Therefore, I will lobby the powers that be to have the sole problem person on this site permanently banned from this site.

Here we go - - -   electioneering again!

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There is more. Some people dont know when to stop! You lobby more than any guy Ive ever run into! With the exception of Blevins, R99, . . .

I think the Cooper case is just a vehicle for you to other things. . .
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 06:50:16 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4544 on: January 18, 2020, 11:55:28 PM »
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Who here has actually discussed the money find with the Fazios? I have, face-to-face multiple times.

The following is my understanding of what Richard Fazio leans towards in terms of an explanation for the money find:

Richard told me that he tends to think that the money was washed up onto Tena Bar very soon before the money was found.

Here's the problem: The rubberbands.

The rubberbands prove that the money could not have washed up onto Tena Bar immediately before February 10, 1980 and self-buried.

Bands of rubber and your 'theories' ... the Fazios told me the same thing!  immediately before February 10, 1980 and self-buried.  So you arent the only swinging branch who has ever talked to the Fazios!  The FBI not only talked to the Fazios they worked with them! The Fazios were part of the excavation.

The Fazios talked to a lot of people including Tosaw, John Powelson, etal. The Fazios worked with people exploring their beach and other areas including the Columbia btwn Feb 1980 and March 1982... and after. The list of people is as long as your arm in case you dont know. Tosaw, Blake Payne, the Rainey's, the Briggs, (I have a long list), JT knows the Fazios well, Himmelsbach on so any occasions; Himmelsbach lived in Portland fished at Tina's Bar ....


Has Robert Nicholson ever talked to the Fazios?  I dont recall R99 ever saying he has ?

So, the Fazios said: " immediately before February 10, 1980 and self-buried." and the FBI records add: "after the last tide and they identified ( pointed to) the last high tide line."

Dont take my word for it - ask Tom Kaye.  :rofl:

Ask R99!  ;)

I think I remember saying "hi" to the Fazios once when Dr. Meyer Louie and I were at Tina Bar.  We stopped at the Fazio office to ask for permission to cross their property to get to Tina Bar.  They were quite busy so that is about all that Meyer and I had a chance to say to them.  I don't remember seeing them on any other of our visits there.