Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 425320 times)

Offline Robert99

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 591
  • Thanked: 82 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4320 on: December 20, 2019, 02:34:45 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Its in a 302 Flyjack posted part of. It's verbatim from Alice Hancock's interview. 

Hancock's interview states:

" Hancock stated that the subject made his demands known in this order:
1)   He wanted the money brought on board first.
2)   He wanted (passengers) off the aircraft after the money was on board.
3)   He wanted parachutes and four crew meals.
4)   He wanted the plane completely refueled.
5)   He wanted maps. "

Regardless of what is in Hancock's 302 interview, and it should be noted that she had very little contact with Cooper if any at all, Cooper would have to specify what maps he wanted.  Just asking for "maps" is meaningless.

And Cooper asking for specific maps would indicate where he wanted to go.  Cooper never mentioned going anywhere except to Mexico and that was probably just a ruse.  All available evidence indicates Cooper planned to jump somewhere near Seattle.

Just because something appears in a 302 doesn't mean that it is accurate.

had very little contact with Cooper if any at all,

How do you know. You arent/weren't even familiar with the documents.

Why not just say: 'Hancock never existed' !   :D

Silly Georger, here you go again!  Why don't you just say that you were there and know everything that was said or not said. 

What is the basis of your pronouncement about what I am familiar with or not familiar with?  You don't have a basis and are just trying to butter up your over inflated ego.

Stupid.

If you are referring to your own remarks, then I agree.

Or you could just refer to the Hancock interview if you have it? Did that occur to you?

I have already referred to the Hancock interview in case you haven't noticed. 
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1704
  • Thanked: 261 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4321 on: December 20, 2019, 04:04:51 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Its in a 302 Flyjack posted part of. It's verbatim from Alice Hancock's interview. 

Hancock's interview states:

" Hancock stated that the subject made his demands known in this order:
1)   He wanted the money brought on board first.
2)   He wanted (passengers) off the aircraft after the money was on board.
3)   He wanted parachutes and four crew meals.
4)   He wanted the plane completely refueled.
5)   He wanted maps. "

Regardless of what is in Hancock's 302 interview, and it should be noted that she had very little contact with Cooper if any at all, Cooper would have to specify what maps he wanted.  Just asking for "maps" is meaningless.

And Cooper asking for specific maps would indicate where he wanted to go.  Cooper never mentioned going anywhere except to Mexico and that was probably just a ruse.  All available evidence indicates Cooper planned to jump somewhere near Seattle.

Just because something appears in a 302 doesn't mean that it is accurate.

had very little contact with Cooper if any at all,

How do you know. You arent/weren't even familiar with the documents.

Why not just say: 'Hancock never existed' !   :D

Silly Georger, here you go again!  Why don't you just say that you were there and know everything that was said or not said. 

What is the basis of your pronouncement about what I am familiar with or not familiar with?  You don't have a basis and are just trying to butter up your over inflated ego.

Stupid.

If you are referring to your own remarks, then I agree.

Or you could just refer to the Hancock interview if you have it? Did that occur to you?

I have already referred to the Hancock interview in case you haven't noticed.

And the new "facts" you have presented about Hancock, are ? We are still waiting.   

You said:

"she had very little contact with Cooper if any at all"
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 04:09:10 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 591
  • Thanked: 82 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4322 on: December 21, 2019, 10:37:26 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


Its in a 302 Flyjack posted part of. It's verbatim from Alice Hancock's interview. 

Hancock's interview states:

" Hancock stated that the subject made his demands known in this order:
1)   He wanted the money brought on board first.
2)   He wanted (passengers) off the aircraft after the money was on board.
3)   He wanted parachutes and four crew meals.
4)   He wanted the plane completely refueled.
5)   He wanted maps. "

Regardless of what is in Hancock's 302 interview, and it should be noted that she had very little contact with Cooper if any at all, Cooper would have to specify what maps he wanted.  Just asking for "maps" is meaningless.

And Cooper asking for specific maps would indicate where he wanted to go.  Cooper never mentioned going anywhere except to Mexico and that was probably just a ruse.  All available evidence indicates Cooper planned to jump somewhere near Seattle.

Just because something appears in a 302 doesn't mean that it is accurate.
[/quote]

Read the Mucklow interview, which is here on Shutter's site, for her comments about "maps".

Tina had almost constant contact with Cooper.  Flo was in the cockpit taking the interphone calls from Tina.  Alice was basically keeping the other passengers out of the way and probably got most of her information second hand from Tina.   

 
The following users thanked this post: Lynn

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1704
  • Thanked: 261 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4323 on: December 22, 2019, 12:41:45 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


Its in a 302 Flyjack posted part of. It's verbatim from Alice Hancock's interview. 

Hancock's interview states:

" Hancock stated that the subject made his demands known in this order:
1)   He wanted the money brought on board first.
2)   He wanted (passengers) off the aircraft after the money was on board.
3)   He wanted parachutes and four crew meals.
4)   He wanted the plane completely refueled.
5)   He wanted maps. "

Regardless of what is in Hancock's 302 interview, and it should be noted that she had very little contact with Cooper if any at all, Cooper would have to specify what maps he wanted.  Just asking for "maps" is meaningless.

And Cooper asking for specific maps would indicate where he wanted to go.  Cooper never mentioned going anywhere except to Mexico and that was probably just a ruse.  All available evidence indicates Cooper planned to jump somewhere near Seattle.

Just because something appears in a 302 doesn't mean that it is accurate.

Read the Mucklow interview, which is here on Shutter's site, for her comments about "maps".

Tina had almost constant contact with Cooper.  Flo was in the cockpit taking the interphone calls from Tina.  Alice was basically keeping the other passengers out of the way and probably got most of her information second hand from Tina.
[/quote]



<REPLY>
Robert screwed up the formatting again. So nobody can reply to his post! Robert gets the final word!  :rofl:
« Last Edit: December 22, 2019, 12:50:24 AM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3522
  • Thanked: 204 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4324 on: January 19, 2020, 11:55:06 PM »
Update on Ted Braden

There is a new DBC researcher and writer by the name of Drew Beeson who is working up a book on Ted Braden. In doing so, he has contacted our old friend, Lt Col Hank Bertsch, the guy who commanded the brig at Ft Dix when Ted was sent there after his Congo adventure. In turn, Hank has recruited one of daughters to sleuth the Internet. She has found a treasure trove on Teddy B.

Among many findings, our Ted B Braden is a Junior. His father was Ted B Braden, Sr. and died in Mississippi in 1961. At that time, Ted Jr. was living in Galveston, Texas.

Ted Jr. also had an extensive criminal record. He did time in Loretto Federal Prison in PA for reasons we don't fully know about. But he was arrested on theft charges of stealing fish and roast beef from a Gloucester, MA warehouse in 1980. Ted was subsequently arrested and incarcerated on those charges in Detroit, Michigan.

At the same time, the stolen fish was being transported on a stolen semi-trailer from Arizona. The results of that charge are still unknown.

Ted was also charged with a DUI and driving a stolen car in PA in 1982.

In addition, Ted was charged with causing a wreck on Route 20 in Belvidere, Illinois in 1975. He was driving a semi and collided with a car. Ted's skid marks were noted as being 87-feet long, which I think indicates that Ted was going pretty fast.

Hank and his daughter have uncovered a lot of family history on Ted, and I'll post on that after they finish their analysis of Ted's timeline.

Drew is also reviewing all of this, and has re-contacted a lot of Ted's SOG buddies, updating their thoughts on Ted.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 11:55:30 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 
The following users thanked this post: Lynn, Darren

Offline Parrotheadvol

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 398
  • Thanked: 40 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4325 on: January 20, 2020, 07:16:27 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Update on Ted Braden

There is a new DBC researcher and writer by the name of Drew Beeson who is working up a book on Ted Braden. In doing so, he has contacted our old friend, Lt Col Hank Bertsch, the guy who commanded the brig at Ft Dix when Ted was sent there after his Congo adventure. In turn, Hank has recruited one of daughters to sleuth the Internet. She has found a treasure trove on Teddy B.

Among many findings, our Ted B Braden is a Junior. His father was Ted B Braden, Sr. and died in Mississippi in 1961. At that time, Ted Jr. was living in Galveston, Texas.

Ted Jr. also had an extensive criminal record. He did time in Loretto Federal Prison in PA for reasons we don't fully know about. But he was arrested on theft charges of stealing fish and roast beef from a Gloucester, MA warehouse in 1980. Ted was subsequently arrested and incarcerated on those charges in Detroit, Michigan.

At the same time, the stolen fish was being transported on a stolen semi-trailer from Arizona. The results of that charge are still unknown.

Ted was also charged with a DUI and driving a stolen car in PA in 1982.

In addition, Ted was charged with causing a wreck on Route 20 in Belvidere, Illinois in 1975. He was driving a semi and collided with a car. Ted's skid marks were noted as being 87-feet long, which I think indicates that Ted was going pretty fast.

Hank and his daughter have uncovered a lot of family history on Ted, and I'll post on that after they finish their analysis of Ted's timeline.

Drew is also reviewing all of this, and has re-contacted a lot of Ted's SOG buddies, updating their thoughts on Ted.

Is this the same guy that was on Darren's podcast a few months ago? He had a guy on there that was pushing Braden as Cooper.
 

Offline nickyb233

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
  • Thanked: 16 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4326 on: January 20, 2020, 10:57:00 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Update on Ted Braden

There is a new DBC researcher and writer by the name of Drew Beeson who is working up a book on Ted Braden. In doing so, he has contacted our old friend, Lt Col Hank Bertsch, the guy who commanded the brig at Ft Dix when Ted was sent there after his Congo adventure. In turn, Hank has recruited one of daughters to sleuth the Internet. She has found a treasure trove on Teddy B.

Among many findings, our Ted B Braden is a Junior. His father was Ted B Braden, Sr. and died in Mississippi in 1961. At that time, Ted Jr. was living in Galveston, Texas.

Ted Jr. also had an extensive criminal record. He did time in Loretto Federal Prison in PA for reasons we don't fully know about. But he was arrested on theft charges of stealing fish and roast beef from a Gloucester, MA warehouse in 1980. Ted was subsequently arrested and incarcerated on those charges in Detroit, Michigan.

At the same time, the stolen fish was being transported on a stolen semi-trailer from Arizona. The results of that charge are still unknown.

Ted was also charged with a DUI and driving a stolen car in PA in 1982.

In addition, Ted was charged with causing a wreck on Route 20 in Belvidere, Illinois in 1975. He was driving a semi and collided with a car. Ted's skid marks were noted as being 87-feet long, which I think indicates that Ted was going pretty fast.

Hank and his daughter have uncovered a lot of family history on Ted, and I'll post on that after they finish their analysis of Ted's timeline.

Drew is also reviewing all of this, and has re-contacted a lot of Ted's SOG buddies, updating their thoughts on Ted.

Is this the same guy that was on Darren's podcast a few months ago? He had a guy on there that was pushing Braden as Cooper.

Yeah it’s the same guy Parrot.
 
The following users thanked this post: Parrotheadvol, Darren

Offline Parrotheadvol

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 398
  • Thanked: 40 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4327 on: January 21, 2020, 08:23:01 AM »
I highly doubt that Braden is Cooper, but I bet there’s still a hell of a story to be told about that guy. That may be a very good read.
 
The following users thanked this post: Lynn

Offline 377

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1622
  • Thanked: 364 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4328 on: January 21, 2020, 01:52:23 PM »
I have read a lot about Ted Braden. I spoke with Billy Waugh about his late MAC SOG teammate. Lots of MAC SOG folks think Braden was Cooper. Snow did a LOT of digging too. Braden's final job appears to have been driving long haul trucks. Odd.

Braden is a good candidate if you look at qualifications and motive, he had all the skills and then some. Balls of steel. He needed money. But nothing puts him on the plane.

The MAC SOG night jumps into N Vietnam for recon and espionage were insanely risky. Just finding each other after landing in a jungle was full of risks. They used an AM broadcast band beacon transmitter and Japanese transistor radios with ferrite bar antennas as crude direction finders to meet up. Their work included placing taps on phone lines. They had numerous close calls including a marauding tiger.

The war took a terrible toll on tigers in Vietnam. Very few remain, perhaps one or two hundred. Here is an example of how that war killed tigers. Carpet bombing probably killed many as well. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

377
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 02:03:14 PM by 377 »
 
The following users thanked this post: Parrotheadvol, andrade1812, Lynn

Offline Prospector

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 79
  • Thanked: 7 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4329 on: March 26, 2020, 03:54:13 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Prospector-Good video on the sketch artist. I had not seen that before.

"Scumbag" and "Lowlife" are pretty harsh terms. I can see how that can be one perspective (he did have a bomb, fake I predict time will demonstrate). However, if we do find out he had a legit grudge, and that he was once a good man, would some be able to see the duality of the man? A lot of good people do bad things at some point in their lives. And a lot of folks on this site see him as a folk hero.  Granted Tina and Flo don't, but the guy did have the balls to jump out of a jet at night in the rain into unfamiliar terroritory. I'd be willing to hear him out before crucifying him.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but a folk hero is someone who has entered the realm of the consciousness of some people as a person who has accomplished an extraordinary feat.  A person who has achieved the unachievable where all others have failed.  An enlightened trail blazer who for the generations that followed would be emulated in thought and action.  It has been a struggle to comprehend how a lowlife D-B who threatened to detonate an explosive device on an aircraft in flight with a load of innocent civilians for self-serving intentions could be perceived as a folk hero.  What he did was wrong by most moral standards of a just society. 

His extraordinary feat was not so extraordinary in action, but extraordinary in his seemingly successful escape from detection, capture, and prosecution.  He achieved to publicly embarrass the authorities in his ability to take everyone by surprise and outmaneuver those professionals and civilians who would pursue him over the span of time.  He was/is emulated in thought and action by the copycat hijackers and those who construct shrines to his deed.  So, in reality, all he did to be awarded the title of folk hero is to successfully rub the nose of the establishment/system in the dirt - that same establishment that controls the narrative and claims at every opportunity presented to them to be beyond reproach - the system is working for you.   

Like many, I have heard stories from others and have witnessed for myself situations that clearly demonstrate that incompetence and corruption among the various levels of the established system is the norm rather than the exception.  Wrong-doing by people in positions of trust is commonly covered-up and the guilty are shielded from prosecution.  Whistleblowers and critics are eliminated.  Likely there are many in the shadows that have a story of being victimized by a well connected white collar criminal or public official who escaped scrutiny and justice for their sleazy crimes.  If, for these reasons, people in general distrust the claims of integrity by the establishment, the morally wrong action he undertook would be seen as a good thing to do against a fundamentally corrupt system - to embarrass them in public – to rub their noses in it.  And because he wore a suit and tie during the commission of the offence, it would be classified as a white collar crime for which there would be a slim chance of any appetite by a sympathetic establishment to prosecute the crime. He is seen as a kindred spirit and able to hide in plain sight amongst them – manipulating them to eliminate his enemies.  The system that beats the system.

For some - he embarrassed the establishment.  For the establishment - he exemplifies the sleaziness and impunity of public corruption.   Is that what makes him a folk hero among so many people on both sides of the equation?



 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7785
  • Thanked: 749 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4330 on: March 26, 2020, 05:41:23 PM »
Folklore is usually started by a family and the story gets more intense as time goes from generation to generation making it basically a myth or the facts get completely lost over time...
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 05:41:49 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3522
  • Thanked: 204 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4331 on: March 26, 2020, 09:51:46 PM »
I have mixed feeling about DB Cooper, or rather I consider his status a s folk hero in conflicted ways.

On one hand, he was bold and innovative. That I can champion.

Beating the man, is also an achievement I admire.

But stealing an airplane and threatening to kill people - now that's unacceptable.
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1704
  • Thanked: 261 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4332 on: March 26, 2020, 11:25:38 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I have mixed feeling about DB Cooper, or rather I consider his status a s folk hero in conflicted ways.

On one hand, he was bold and innovative. That I can champion.

Beating the man, is also an achievement I admire.

But stealing an airplane and threatening to kill people - now that's unacceptable.

He may be a legend but not a hero!  :nono:
 
The following users thanked this post: Darren

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3522
  • Thanked: 204 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4333 on: March 27, 2020, 04:51:43 AM »
That's a good way to put it.
 
The following users thanked this post: georger

Offline haggarknew

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
  • Thanked: 21 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4334 on: March 27, 2020, 06:25:04 AM »
Dirty rotten criminal..... Himms stated it best.