Author Topic: New Forum & News Updates  (Read 768884 times)

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3767
  • Thanked: 253 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6450 on: November 01, 2019, 03:16:41 AM »
The China Ditch

Have we talked about the China Ditch here before? I kind of remember someone talking about it.

It is a canal or channel that was dug in the 1880s from the Hockinson area to the lumber mills in Camas, on the Columbia River. Camas, as you may know, is at the confluence of the Washougal and Columbia Rivers. The mills needed water, and somehow it was cheaper or more appealing to use water from a vast inland shallow lake in the Hockinson area than tap into the Columbia.

Regardless, the China Ditch was dug. Nowadays, it is a grass-lined ditch with hardly any standing water - but in 1971 the state was still digging out ditches across Washington to aid in surface water management. Hence, the China Ditch had standing water and is a plausible means of delivering a bundle of twenties into the Columbia upstream from T-Bar. This is according to Jim, the owner of the Hockinson Market.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 03:17:42 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2297
  • Thanked: 312 times
Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6451 on: November 01, 2019, 03:57:53 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The China Ditch

Have we talked about the China Ditch here before? I kind of remember someone talking about it.

It is a canal or channel that was dug in the 1880s from the Hockinson area to the lumber mills in Camas, on the Columbia River. Camas, as you may know, is at the confluence of the Washougal and Columbia Rivers. The mills needed water, and somehow it was cheaper or more appealing to use water from a vast inland shallow lake in the Hockinson area than tap into the Columbia.

Regardless, the China Ditch was dug. Nowadays, it is a grass-lined ditch with hardly any standing water - but in 1971 the state was still digging out ditches across Washington to aid in surface water management. Hence, the China Ditch had standing water and is a plausible means of delivering a bundle of twenties into the Columbia upstream from T-Bar. This is according to Jim, the owner of the Hockinson Market.

Got a map? How does it connect with the Columbia?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 04:11:30 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8541
  • Thanked: 821 times
Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6452 on: November 01, 2019, 09:14:05 AM »
Reading about the China Ditch shows it was a 33 mile long ditch 5 foot by 5 foot. looking at historical photo's it doesn't appear to be very deep or useful in the 50's and beyond. it stops way before the Columbia (approx. 7 miles) it drains into the fifth plain creek.

Looking at the street view shows it's basically just a ditch now. I'm guessing a severe rain or flood would fill it but it's nothing more than a long ditch now. it's been that way since the 50's. probably further but historic photo's I have don't go any further back.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 09:25:42 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline EU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1579
  • Thanked: 243 times
    • DB  Cooper: The Definitive Investigation of Sheridan Peterson
Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6453 on: November 01, 2019, 11:41:01 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Update on Road Tour

In preparation for leading the Cooper Con 2019 Road Tour, I went scouting through Cooper Country over the past two days, starting with having a late lunch with Kermit at La Casa Tapatia in Woodland on Wednesday. Instead of camping in a cozy cabin at Battleground Lake State Park for 62 bucks and braving the cold (23 degrees in some spots), I opted for a 62-dollar room at Rodeway Inn in Vancouver and watched the World Series - Whew. Go Nats. It almost felt like a Yankees win.

Today, I was back on the road and discovered the real Orchards, WA. Sure looks different than 48 years ago, as the town has joined the Portland-Vancouver metroplex. Regardless, we'll be starting the Road Tour at Shari's restaurant in Orchards, located in the Fred Meyer shopping mall on 76th Ave and SR 503/500. 1-pm, I figure.

Then it's off to Hockinson, WA, which used to be loaded with dairy farms in 1971, run by a community of Finnish farmers. Currently, some agricultural work still continues. But not only is Hockinson flat, it's rapidly becoming a "Hamptons-kind of place" for Vancouver's rich folks. My waitress at Shari's was born and raised in Hockinson, but can't afford to live there any more!

A few things about Hockinson. NO ONE knew that the FBI had begun considering it to be DBC's new LZ after they abandoned Amboy in 1975.

Secondly, there isn't a single tavern in Hockinson! Nor a Starbucks! Where is an intrepid investigative journalist supposed to go? Well, I bought an ice cream cone at the Hockinson Market and talked to "Jim," who was wearing a Star Trek costume - it was Halloween - then went next door to the District Offices of the Hockinson School District. Joe the custodian is a life-long resident and I hope to be able to talk with him soon. I may also give a talk to the Hockinson High School History Club before the Cooper Con 2019.

Got really lost trying to find the Battleground Lake State Park, so I gave up and rejoined SR 503 on the way to Amboy. Autumn leaves are turning, and the drive was beautiful. Folks will have a delightful ride at Cooper Con if the weather is half-decent.

Ironically, the clear blue skies over Amboy turned gray as the smoke from 22 new wildfires in Oregon descended upon us. The smarty pants guys at the Oregon Department of Natural Renounces thought this week would be a good time for controlled burns in the Willamette Valley, but the weather that is making California a living hell is upon Oregon as well, and the DNR lost control of almost two dozen of its fires. Ug.

In Amboy, Nick's is still pouring beer, but the trees along Cedar Creek Rd are being harvested. Stumptown has arrived. Hmmmm....

I also drove the long way to Lake Merwin - east out of Amboy on 503 through the Yale Valley. Beautiful, but 23 miles of winding roads was tough. But 30 minutes later I got some great views of Lake Merwin and the dam.

The Ariel Tavern is in very sad shape. Looks boarded-up. Signage is down or obscured. Restrooms are still open at the Merwin Dam Rec area, though. Thank Gawd.

Lastly, La Casa Tapatia does make great Mexican food. Further, I've invited the folks at the Lewis River Bed and Breakfast to invite us to their place up the road for a free glass of wine so that the denizens of Cooper World can begin to get to know these people and a truly wonderful B&B in the heart of Cooper Country. If they agree, and I hope they do, I'll let y'all know.

See y'all in Vancouver, Nov 22-24.

Sounds very cool Bruce.

There is nothing like actually being on the ground and seeing some of these areas in person. It gives one a much better perspective on the challenges that DBC would have faced and helps bring into focus the likelihood that DBC landed/walked in one area over another based, in part, upon the realization that the money was found on Tena Bar.

For those interested in Bruce's DB Cooper Road Tour or the event itself on November, 23rd, simply Google "CooperCon 2019" or visit You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login .

Cheers!
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2297
  • Thanked: 312 times
Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6454 on: November 01, 2019, 02:53:29 PM »
How is China Ditch at Hockinson (sp?) connected to the Columbia? It isn't. Its only connection is via a long chain of small interconnected creeks eventually connected to Lacamas Lake tributary system which then may or may not connect to the Columbia. Who knows if this ditch even had water in it from 1970-1980 - it isnt deep enough to hide anyone and its whole extent is in a well traveled area. 

One can surmise that this came up before when Sluggo wanted to dig cemeteries in the Orchard-Hockinson area looking for Cooper or Cooper money, which would have included the 'China Ditch Workers Cemetery' ? Enough poor homeless Chinese workers died digging this 'canal' back in the 1890s to warrant burying the bodies at a hastily set up site close to where the work was going on. Like cemeteries set up along railroad and canal expansion in the 1800s US. Thousands of poor Chinese were involved in the 'China Ditch' project in Washington. Another 'China Ditch' is in Oregon, Idaho, etc. 

Maybe the China Ditch was connected to Cooper's grudge ?  ;)
« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 03:29:04 PM by georger »
 

Offline Kermit

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
  • Thanked: 84 times
Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6455 on: November 01, 2019, 03:27:43 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
How is China Ditch at Hockinson (sp?) connected to the Columbia? It isn't. Its only connection is via a long chain of small interconnected creeks eventually connected to Lacamas Lake tributary system which then may or may not connect to the Columbia. Who knows if this ditch even had water in it from 1970-1980 - it isnt deep enough to hide anyone and its whole extent is in a well traveled area. 

One can surmise that this came up before when Sluggo wanted to dig cemeteries in the Orchard-Hockinson area looking for Cooper or Cooper money, which would have included the 'China Ditch Workers Cemetery' ? Enough poor homeless Chinese workers died digging this 'canal' back in the 1890s to warrant burying the bodies at a hastily set up site close to where the work was going on. Like cemeteries set up along railroad and canal expansion in the 1800s US. Thousands of poor Chinese were involved in the 'China Ditch' project in Washington. Another 'China Ditch' is in Oregon.

Maybe the China Ditch was connected to Cooper's grudge ?  ;)

Many were buried in Lone Fir Memorial Cemetary in the Buckman area in Portland not far from where I carried mail back in the 60’s. It’s not too far from Central Catholic High School and Buckman Elementary school. Lots of history there if anyone is interested.
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8541
  • Thanked: 821 times
Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6456 on: November 01, 2019, 05:29:39 PM »
Quote
Who knows if this ditch even had water in it from 1970-1980

It's nothing but a long ditch. even in the 70's it wasn't functional as a waterway.
 
The following users thanked this post: georger

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3767
  • Thanked: 253 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6457 on: November 03, 2019, 04:06:41 PM »
Update on Mark Zaid

Mark Zaid, the Washington DC-based attorney that represented Thomas Colbert in his law suit against the FBI challenging them to officially answer Colbert's 100+ pieces of "evidence" proving Rackstraw was DBC is back in the news today.

CBS-TV is reporting that Zaid legally represents the country's famous "whistleblower," the individual who triggered the Ukrainian scandal and resulting Impeachment Inquiry. Further, Zaid has reportedly stated publicly that the whistleblower will shed his cloak of privacy and testify before the Congressional committees investigating the president.

History sure weaves a funny web, eh?
 

Offline Robert99

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 915
  • Thanked: 99 times
Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6458 on: November 04, 2019, 01:23:35 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Update on Mark Zaid

Mark Zaid, the Washington DC-based attorney that represented Thomas Colbert in his law suit against the FBI challenging them to officially answer Colbert's 100+ pieces of "evidence" proving Rackstraw was DBC is back in the news today.

CBS-TV is reporting that Zaid legally represents the country's famous "whistleblower," the individual who triggered the Ukrainian scandal and resulting Impeachment Inquiry. Further, Zaid has reportedly stated publicly that the whistleblower will shed his cloak of privacy and testify before the Congressional committees investigating the president.

History sure weaves a funny web, eh?

I believe that Mark Zaid said that the whistleblower would answer written questions from the White House if he didn't have to reveal his identity.  Also, Trump is hinting at a government shutdown if he is impeached.
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8541
  • Thanked: 821 times
Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6459 on: November 04, 2019, 06:09:45 AM »
NO POLITICS......
 
The following users thanked this post: Parrotheadvol, foxmanb

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3767
  • Thanked: 253 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6460 on: November 05, 2019, 01:56:04 AM »
Understood. I was just trying to make an interesting comparison on Mark Zaid's clientele.
 
The following users thanked this post: Shutter

Offline 377

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1634
  • Thanked: 370 times
Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6461 on: November 05, 2019, 02:12:22 PM »
We are all indebted to Colbert and Zaid. Their relentless assertion of FOIA rights has reaped a bountiful harvest of NORJAK info. Many federal agencies routinely deny legitimate FOIA requests knowing that only a few will pursue admin appeals or civil lawsuits. Zaid knows the law and how to use it. Colbert has generously shared the results. Big thanks to both.

Rackstraw is the evilest of the Cooper candidates. He made ordinary sociopaths look like saints. TC's book is a great read even if you don't think Rackstraw was Cooper.

This is a fascinating story just published last weekend. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
A CA drag boat (bottom trawler) captain built a towable housing for a couple of GoPro cameras and bright lights and attached them to his net facing forward near the mouth. He recorded thousands of hours of ocean bottom video and liked watching them in his spare time. There was no way to get a live view, he had to wait until the net was pulled and download video from the SD cards. He kept a GPS trawl track to correlate objects seen on video with locations using time stamps. On one trawl he spotted what he is absolutely certain were gold bars lying on the bottom (I disagree but look at the images and draw your own conclusions). Gold fever ensues and the story gets really interesting.

I wish some boat that regularly sails on stretches of the Columbia relevant to Cooper's jump could tow a similar camera/light rig. Who knows what the camera might spot? These days it would be fairly easy to use image processing algorithms to scan the recordings looking for unusual objects.

377
« Last Edit: November 05, 2019, 02:29:32 PM by 377 »
 
The following users thanked this post: georger

Offline Robert99

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 915
  • Thanked: 99 times
Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6462 on: November 05, 2019, 02:17:56 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
We are all indebted to Colbert and Zaid. Their relentless assertion of FOIA rights has reaped a bountiful harvest of NORJAK info. Many federal agencies routinely deny legitimate FOIA requests knowing that only a few will pursue admin appeals or civil lawsuits. Zaid knows the law and how to use it. Colbert has generously shared the results. Big thanks to both.

Rackstraw is the evilest of the Cooper candidates. He made ordinary sociopaths look like saints. TC's book is a great read even if you don't think Rackstraw was Cooper.

This is a fascinating story just published last weekend. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
A CA drag boat (bottom trawler) captain built a towable housing for a couple of GoPro cameras and bright lights and attached them to his net facing forward near the mouth. He recorded thousands of hours of ocean bottom video and liked watching them in his spare time. There was no way to get a live view, he had to wait until the net was pulled and download video from the SD cards. He kept a GPS trawl track to correlate objects seen on video with locations using time stamps. On one trawl he spotted what he is absolutely certain were gold bars lying on the bottom (I disagree but look at the images and draw your own conclusions). Gold fever ensues and the story gets really interesting.

I wish some boat that regularly sails on stretches of the Columbia relevant to Cooper's jump could tow a similar camera/light rig. Who knows what the might spot? These days it would be fairly easy to use image processing algorithms to scan the recordings looking for unusual objects.

377

Just checking the wind dams (or whatever they are called) downstream of the money find location at Tina Bar, might be productive even today.
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8541
  • Thanked: 821 times
Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6463 on: November 05, 2019, 02:19:15 PM »
wing dams...I think Tosaw covered those. I think a small chute was found in one?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2019, 02:19:46 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Robert99

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 915
  • Thanked: 99 times
Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6464 on: November 05, 2019, 02:27:19 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
wing dams...I think Tosaw covered those. I think a small chute was found in one?

My impression is that Tosaw was primarily interested in things further out from the shore.  But several downstream wing dams should be checked.