Author Topic: New Forum & News Updates  (Read 418344 times)

Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4080 on: December 05, 2017, 03:59:16 PM »
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And now you want to insist Rataczak personally talked to Cooper who said 'set the flaps at fifteen'.   


Nope. That's not what I said, nor implied. When Rataczak said "me" I took it to mean in a more general way, such as "informing the cockpit crew." Rataczak is kind of an imperial kind of guy. He ran the cockpit, but tried to do so in a diplomatic manner. Anderson reportedly hated Rataczak, and Scotty seemed to live in his own little world.

Nor do I believe that Rataczak's memory is infallible. Or that his account is accurate or truthful. I don't know if Rataczak is lying about the flight path, ie: flying over the Washougal, or his statements in the HC docu which are absurd, ie: flying over terrain that was 5,000 feet in altitude - which would put 305 on the western flanks of Mt Saint Helens.

Talking to Rataczak, or any interviewee for that matter, is a lot like reading tea leaves. Much needs to be interpreted to context, tone of voice, body language, etc. I know you prefer a more black and white investigatory environment, but that is not always possible. Hence we have journalists and scientists to make the world go 'round.

Bruce, in regards to your first paragraph above, there were two ironclad rules that applied the operation of an aircraft in 1971.  They went something like this and are as follows:

RULE 1:  THE CAPTAIN IS THE PILOT IN COMMAND.

RULE 2:  SEE RULE 1 ABOVE.

To repeat, these rules were in effect during the hijacked flight.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 04:00:39 PM by Robert99 »
 

Offline FLYJACK

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4081 on: December 05, 2017, 04:55:03 PM »
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According to above post it appears the aircraft was at an elevation below 10,000 feet as Shutter mentions the stairs being already down and pilots realizing the extra drag will,cause fuel problem so they change flaps to 30 as they climb to 10,000 ft. I am curious what math figures were used when Simulations were done to try to locate flight location at time of placard find ! All of these figures are important to come to an relatively accurate conclusion. I have noticed in a earlier post that Robert 99 answers a question about the placard location as being just a few miles from Tina Bar ? Really ? I’ve been close to the placard find location and I’m curious as to what a few miles means to R99.
My main point is let’s try to agree on some accurate figures that I listed above and we can fairly accurately estimate where the aircraft was at 8:05 IF I’m reading correctly.

Shortly after takeoff Cooper got the stairs open, not down, not locked. they open about 20 degree's in the free fall position. this was at 7,000 feet. they leveled off and slowed the plane down. 30 degree flaps were also deployed..

according to the testing, there was no drag while the stairs were hanging down, and minimum drag while the stairs were 95% down. they had a pretty good idea how far the plane would fly in the current configuration. they calculated that with the flaps at 30 degree's would cause further loss of fuel, so they went back to 15 degree's.

when you look on Tom Kaye's website the calculations are there, along with a map showing where the placard was found giving indication as to where the plane was at that time. after reading page after page of multiple people working on the flight path, including the Air Force, it makes it difficult to believe an alternate route occurred. a lot of documents have surfaced about this issue.

What is the closed angle of the airstairs, looks close to 20 degrees.. perhaps this is why Cooper indicated trouble to crew.. they unlocked but didn't drop. The placard was found approx 20:04 est.. 20 min after first light indicator.

 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4082 on: December 05, 2017, 05:27:13 PM »
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...there were two ironclad rules that applied the operation of an aircraft in 1971.  They went something like this and are as follows:

RULE 1:  THE CAPTAIN IS THE PILOT IN COMMAND.

RULE 2:  SEE RULE 1 ABOVE.

To repeat, these rules were in effect during the hijacked flight.


I don't think that is actually how the cockpit of Flight 305 functioned. I know that is what the manual says, and what official protocols are, but the reality of cockpit command throughout the airline industry is quite different.

Your inference that Captain Scott was in indisputable command is not what Rataczak told me. Rataczak told me that Scotty became rattled upon takeoff in Portland when he learned they were being hijacked and Rataczak had to assist him in controlling the aircraft. Yes, they seemed to straighten things out after that. But...

...illustrative documentaries on the problems of cockpit command are quite interesting and are informative on how confusion and chaos can reign in a cockpit, such as 305. The crash of Eastern 401 was directly attributed to the failure of the captain to insure clear and comprehensive command of the flight on approach to Miami International. I think Nat Geo did a docu on it, but an excellent film depicts the incident.

Similarly, the recent tail strike and crash at San Francisco airport was again directly attributed to a too rapid decent caused by miscommunication between a junior officer who was in charge of the approach and a senior officer who over-rode his decisions, or more precisely ignored them.

Lastly, the worst airline disaster - in Tenerife - was caused by poor cockpit command of the KLM 747, which collided with an American Airline 747 on takeoff. Something like 500 people died as a result.

Perhaps the most troubling incident is the fly-over a few years ago when a United (?) flight by-passed its destination airport (MSP?) by 75 miles because both pilots were busy on their lap-tops discussing the impacts of their union's new work contracts.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 05:34:54 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4083 on: December 05, 2017, 05:36:32 PM »
How things are handled in the cockpit today are much different than what occurred in 1971..If not mistaken, cockpit protocol changed with the crash of flight 401 in the everglades. the entire crew was focused on a light bulb and failed to noticed they bumped the yoke causing the autopilot to disengage. by the time they realized what was going on they were almost at ground level.

the crash site is not far from where I am..pieces can still be found of the wreckage to this day...

I thought they switched roles in the cockpit during each run..I believe it was Rats time to take the ship during the hijacking?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 05:39:06 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4084 on: December 05, 2017, 05:45:11 PM »
Quote
What is the closed angle of the airstairs, looks close to 20 degrees.. perhaps this is why Cooper indicated trouble to crew.. they unlocked but didn't drop. The placard was found approx 20:04 est.. 20 min after first light indicator.

This is all well documented...yes, they drop 20 degree's when released, and will not drop until you step on the stairs while in flight. the wind is also a factor preventing the stairs to the locked position..230 lbs. wasn't enough to do the job.
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4085 on: December 05, 2017, 05:48:28 PM »
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And now you want to insist Rataczak personally talked to Cooper who said 'set the flaps at fifteen'.   


Nope. That's not what I said, nor implied. When Rataczak said "me" I took it to mean in a more general way, such as "informing the cockpit crew." Rataczak is kind of an imperial kind of guy. He ran the cockpit, but tried to do so in a diplomatic manner. Anderson reportedly hated Rataczak, and Scotty seemed to live in his own little world.

Nor do I believe that Rataczak's memory is infallible. Or that his account is accurate or truthful. I don't know if Rataczak is lying about the flight path, ie: flying over the Washougal, or his statements in the HC docu which are absurd, ie: flying over terrain that was 5,000 feet in altitude - which would put 305 on the western flanks of Mt Saint Helens.

Talking to Rataczak, or any interviewee for that matter, is a lot like reading tea leaves. Much needs to be interpreted to context, tone of voice, body language, etc. I know you prefer a more black and white investigatory environment, but that is not always possible. Hence we have journalists and scientists to make the world go 'round.

Really! "Rataczak is kind of an imperial kind of guy. He ran the cockpit, but tried to do so in a diplomatic manner. Anderson reportedly hated Rataczak, and Scotty seemed to live in his own little world."

Did Tina hate Flo hated Hancock hated Toykjo Rose?

Give us the full story !
 

Now do you see why I said 'I DONT GIVE FLYING DUCK WHAT SMITH SAYS"!



 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4086 on: December 05, 2017, 05:49:38 PM »
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...[I dont give a flying F what Bruce says R told him!]...


Why not?

You have little interest in hearing what Rataczak said about these issues?

BTW: I'm happy to share the microphone with anyone else here who has talked to Rataczak. I'd love to hear what he told other journalists and researchers.

I have little interest in hearing what you say Rataczak said about these issues?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 06:01:20 PM by georger »
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4087 on: December 05, 2017, 06:17:40 PM »
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I think the reason for the lack of discussion with the configuration of the plane is the fact of it being accepted. the stairs were a different story. they switch to 30 degree's to slow the plane down further while he fumbles with the stairs. the flaps set at 30 only last about five minutes after they realize it will burn even more fuel. I believe they switch back to 15 when they start climbing to 10,000.

A wild guess could be Cooper watching the stairs come down from the tarmac thinking the they were lowered from the cockpit when it's actually the stew lowering them. this of course would mean Cooper has never been inside a 727 for any flights in the past.

was he smart enough to cover all these angles, or was he dumb enough to get himself killed over the crime? criminals always make critical error's, that's how they get caught. some work years preparing for it only to be caught with the critical error, or oversight.

Cooper could of easily asked for the cloud levels, or to drop the altitude if he was really looking for the key position to jump. why do it half ass, or did he screw up missing his original jump location? you would think a pilot would ask these types of questions..life saving questions.
I have always felt that the most concrete actual evidence left behind by Coop is the placard find and location. I believe we can identify the location of Aircraft pretty accurately! What figures do we need to do a fairly simple Mathematical solution.
1. We need the exact altitude of Placard find.
2. We need exact location of placard find.
3 we need altitude of aircraft at time of placard being dislodged from stairs.
4. We need wind speed to help determine drift of placard.
5. We need to know weight of placard approximated.
According to above post it appears the aircraft was at an elevation below 10,000 feet as Shutter mentions the stairs being already down and pilots realizing the extra drag will,cause fuel problem so they change flaps to 30 as they climb to 10,000 ft. I am curious what math figures were used when Simulations were done to try to locate flight location at time of placard find ! All of these figures are important to come to an relatively accurate conclusion. I have noticed in a earlier post that Robert 99 answers a question about the placard location as being just a few miles from Tina Bar ? Really ? I’ve been close to the placard find location and I’m curious as to what a few miles means to R99.
My main point is let’s try to agree on some accurate figures that I listed above and we can fairly accurately estimate where the aircraft was at 8:05 IF I’m reading correctly.

Kermit,

Many of your questions have already been answered on the flight path thread that I posted on extensively on these very questions.  If you take the time to read that thread, you will know why getting the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts are so important.

On the placard matter, if the placard was on a small door and that entire door disappeared then the placard would probably have stayed on that door all the way to the ground.  But the placard that was found on the ground was obviously torn off with a substantial part of it left on whatever structure it was mounted.  Reportedly, the remaining part of the placard was found by the maintenance people still attached to the structure when they repaired the aircraft in Seattle.

See Tom Kaye's site for the calculations that I used in predicting where the placard was torn off and separated from the aircraft.

After reading the items referenced above, get back in touch and we can discuss the matter further.

For the record, in my lingo "a few miles" means "a few miles". ;)
LOL YES , a few miles it is I guess ! I’ve been there and it’s “ quite a few miles “ in my lingo !
Although it’s interesting to note what Tom Kaye’s figures are, I’m trying to get a consensus of what is the most likely accurate figures. I’m aware that some of these stats cannot be 100% verifiable but you and I are certainly aware that any Math conclusion is only as accurate as the figures punched in the formula. I don’t claim to know all the figures but I certainly hope some of the intelligent gentlemen on this forum will assist me. Give me the approx correct figures, and I am very capable of doing the Math. If not I have a friend who is a Mathematical true genius who would hopefully help me out. He got a full scholarship to MIT.
 

Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4088 on: December 05, 2017, 06:54:06 PM »
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...there were two ironclad rules that applied the operation of an aircraft in 1971.  They went something like this and are as follows:

RULE 1:  THE CAPTAIN IS THE PILOT IN COMMAND.

RULE 2:  SEE RULE 1 ABOVE.

To repeat, these rules were in effect during the hijacked flight.


I don't think that is actually how the cockpit of Flight 305 functioned. I know that is what the manual says, and what official protocols are, but the reality of cockpit command throughout the airline industry is quite different.

Your inference that Captain Scott was in indisputable command is not what Rataczak told me. Rataczak told me that Scotty became rattled upon takeoff in Portland when he learned they were being hijacked and Rataczak had to assist him in controlling the aircraft. Yes, they seemed to straighten things out after that. But...

...illustrative documentaries on the problems of cockpit command are quite interesting and are informative on how confusion and chaos can reign in a cockpit, such as 305. The crash of Eastern 401 was directly attributed to the failure of the captain to insure clear and comprehensive command of the flight on approach to Miami International. I think Nat Geo did a docu on it, but an excellent film depicts the incident.

Similarly, the recent tail strike and crash at San Francisco airport was again directly attributed to a too rapid decent caused by miscommunication between a junior officer who was in charge of the approach and a senior officer who over-rode his decisions, or more precisely ignored them.

Lastly, the worst airline disaster - in Tenerife - was caused by poor cockpit command of the KLM 747, which collided with an American Airline 747 on takeoff. Something like 500 people died as a result.

Perhaps the most troubling incident is the fly-over a few years ago when a United (?) flight by-passed its destination airport (MSP?) by 75 miles because both pilots were busy on their lap-tops discussing the impacts of their union's new work contracts.

Bruce,

The Tenerife accident was caused by a 747 captain starting a take-off run without permission on a fog covered runway.  He promptly collided with another 747 that was still on the runway.  That is pilot error.

A number of years back, a stretched DC-8 crashed into a park in Portland after running out of fuel while circling Portland to trouble shoot a light problem with the landing gear.  Both the co-pilot and the flight engineer told the captain several times that they were running out of fuel but he ignored the information.  That is stupidity.  The airline industry started a Crew Resource Management program as a result.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4089 on: December 05, 2017, 07:04:43 PM »
 Today's flight and cabin crews are much different than they were during the early years of
commercial aviation. The captain of the aircraft was once considered "God" and his decisions were
always the "right" ones. There was little, if any, input from the other pilots because they assumed the
captain knew what he was doing. It was also considered somewhat disrespectful to question the
decisions of a superior. Part of this thinking had its genesis from the military. At one time the military
was the biggest producer of pilots, and along with military training came a good dose of machismo,
ego, and autocratic decision-making processes (many military fighters were single pilot aircraft and
therefore lacked the redundancy of, and decision inputs from, another crewmember). This attitude did
not transfer well into civilian cockpits. The problems began to manifest in pilot error related airline
accidents that claimed hundreds of lives:

1978, United 171 ran out of fuel over Portland, Oregon and no one noticed until it was too late.
1972, Eastern 401 gradually descended into the Everglades as all three crewmembers became
fixated on a landing light indication and the autopilot became disengaged.
1982, Air Florida 90 was not properly de-iced and crashed shortly after takeoff from
Washington, D.C. In addition, standard operating procedures were violated by an inexperienced
flight crew.
1985, Delta 191 was caught in an unreported windshear on final approach to the Dallas/Fort
Worth airport.

 Crew Resource Management (CRM). was born
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 07:07:06 PM by Shutter »
 
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Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4090 on: December 05, 2017, 07:08:22 PM »
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I think the reason for the lack of discussion with the configuration of the plane is the fact of it being accepted. the stairs were a different story. they switch to 30 degree's to slow the plane down further while he fumbles with the stairs. the flaps set at 30 only last about five minutes after they realize it will burn even more fuel. I believe they switch back to 15 when they start climbing to 10,000.

A wild guess could be Cooper watching the stairs come down from the tarmac thinking the they were lowered from the cockpit when it's actually the stew lowering them. this of course would mean Cooper has never been inside a 727 for any flights in the past.

was he smart enough to cover all these angles, or was he dumb enough to get himself killed over the crime? criminals always make critical error's, that's how they get caught. some work years preparing for it only to be caught with the critical error, or oversight.

Cooper could of easily asked for the cloud levels, or to drop the altitude if he was really looking for the key position to jump. why do it half ass, or did he screw up missing his original jump location? you would think a pilot would ask these types of questions..life saving questions.
I have always felt that the most concrete actual evidence left behind by Coop is the placard find and location. I believe we can identify the location of Aircraft pretty accurately! What figures do we need to do a fairly simple Mathematical solution.
1. We need the exact altitude of Placard find.
2. We need exact location of placard find.
3 we need altitude of aircraft at time of placard being dislodged from stairs.
4. We need wind speed to help determine drift of placard.
5. We need to know weight of placard approximated.
According to above post it appears the aircraft was at an elevation below 10,000 feet as Shutter mentions the stairs being already down and pilots realizing the extra drag will,cause fuel problem so they change flaps to 30 as they climb to 10,000 ft. I am curious what math figures were used when Simulations were done to try to locate flight location at time of placard find ! All of these figures are important to come to an relatively accurate conclusion. I have noticed in a earlier post that Robert 99 answers a question about the placard location as being just a few miles from Tina Bar ? Really ? I’ve been close to the placard find location and I’m curious as to what a few miles means to R99.
My main point is let’s try to agree on some accurate figures that I listed above and we can fairly accurately estimate where the aircraft was at 8:05 IF I’m reading correctly.

Kermit,

Many of your questions have already been answered on the flight path thread that I posted on extensively on these very questions.  If you take the time to read that thread, you will know why getting the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts are so important.

On the placard matter, if the placard was on a small door and that entire door disappeared then the placard would probably have stayed on that door all the way to the ground.  But the placard that was found on the ground was obviously torn off with a substantial part of it left on whatever structure it was mounted.  Reportedly, the remaining part of the placard was found by the maintenance people still attached to the structure when they repaired the aircraft in Seattle.

See Tom Kaye's site for the calculations that I used in predicting where the placard was torn off and separated from the aircraft.

After reading the items referenced above, get back in touch and we can discuss the matter further.

For the record, in my lingo "a few miles" means "a few miles". ;)
LOL YES , a few miles it is I guess ! I’ve been there and it’s “ quite a few miles “ in my lingo !
Although it’s interesting to note what Tom Kaye’s figures are, I’m trying to get a consensus of what is the most likely accurate figures. I’m aware that some of these stats cannot be 100% verifiable but you and I are certainly aware that any Math conclusion is only as accurate as the figures punched in the formula. I don’t claim to know all the figures but I certainly hope some of the intelligent gentlemen on this forum will assist me. Give me the approx correct figures, and I am very capable of doing the Math. If not I have a friend who is a Mathematical true genius who would hopefully help me out. He got a full scholarship to MIT.

Kermit,

The family that found the placard took Tom Kaye to the exact location where they found it.  Tom then used his hand-held GPS receiver to record the exact location.  I don't know how accurate Tom's GPS is but mine is accurate to within about six feet.

The most accurate numbers you will ever find on this matter are in the references that I gave you earlier.  As I understand your comments, you have a friend who is a "Mathematical true genius" who you believe can come up with better numbers than previously used.  I don't think you understand what you are actually saying.

For the record, I have known about 30 or 40 technical graduates of MIT, the USAF Academy, the Naval Academy, and the US Military Academy at West Point.  All were involved in the aeronautical sciences and not a single one of them would make the statements you make above.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4091 on: December 05, 2017, 07:32:29 PM »
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I think the reason for the lack of discussion with the configuration of the plane is the fact of it being accepted. the stairs were a different story. they switch to 30 degree's to slow the plane down further while he fumbles with the stairs. the flaps set at 30 only last about five minutes after they realize it will burn even more fuel. I believe they switch back to 15 when they start climbing to 10,000.

A wild guess could be Cooper watching the stairs come down from the tarmac thinking the they were lowered from the cockpit when it's actually the stew lowering them. this of course would mean Cooper has never been inside a 727 for any flights in the past.

was he smart enough to cover all these angles, or was he dumb enough to get himself killed over the crime? criminals always make critical error's, that's how they get caught. some work years preparing for it only to be caught with the critical error, or oversight.

Cooper could of easily asked for the cloud levels, or to drop the altitude if he was really looking for the key position to jump. why do it half ass, or did he screw up missing his original jump location? you would think a pilot would ask these types of questions..life saving questions.
I have always felt that the most concrete actual evidence left behind by Coop is the placard find and location. I believe we can identify the location of Aircraft pretty accurately! What figures do we need to do a fairly simple Mathematical solution.
1. We need the exact altitude of Placard find.
2. We need exact location of placard find.
3 we need altitude of aircraft at time of placard being dislodged from stairs.
4. We need wind speed to help determine drift of placard.
5. We need to know weight of placard approximated.
According to above post it appears the aircraft was at an elevation below 10,000 feet as Shutter mentions the stairs being already down and pilots realizing the extra drag will,cause fuel problem so they change flaps to 30 as they climb to 10,000 ft. I am curious what math figures were used when Simulations were done to try to locate flight location at time of placard find ! All of these figures are important to come to an relatively accurate conclusion. I have noticed in a earlier post that Robert 99 answers a question about the placard location as being just a few miles from Tina Bar ? Really ? I’ve been close to the placard find location and I’m curious as to what a few miles means to R99.
My main point is let’s try to agree on some accurate figures that I listed above and we can fairly accurately estimate where the aircraft was at 8:05 IF I’m reading correctly.

Kermit,

Many of your questions have already been answered on the flight path thread that I posted on extensively on these very questions.  If you take the time to read that thread, you will know why getting the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts are so important.

On the placard matter, if the placard was on a small door and that entire door disappeared then the placard would probably have stayed on that door all the way to the ground.  But the placard that was found on the ground was obviously torn off with a substantial part of it left on whatever structure it was mounted.  Reportedly, the remaining part of the placard was found by the maintenance people still attached to the structure when they repaired the aircraft in Seattle.

See Tom Kaye's site for the calculations that I used in predicting where the placard was torn off and separated from the aircraft.

After reading the items referenced above, get back in touch and we can discuss the matter further.

For the record, in my lingo "a few miles" means "a few miles". ;)
LOL YES , a few miles it is I guess ! I’ve been there and it’s “ quite a few miles “ in my lingo !
Although it’s interesting to note what Tom Kaye’s figures are, I’m trying to get a consensus of what is the most likely accurate figures. I’m aware that some of these stats cannot be 100% verifiable but you and I are certainly aware that any Math conclusion is only as accurate as the figures punched in the formula. I don’t claim to know all the figures but I certainly hope some of the intelligent gentlemen on this forum will assist me. Give me the approx correct figures, and I am very capable of doing the Math. If not I have a friend who is a Mathematical true genius who would hopefully help me out. He got a full scholarship to MIT.

Kermit,

The family that found the placard took Tom Kaye to the exact location where they found it.  Tom then used his hand-held GPS receiver to record the exact location.  I don't know how accurate Tom's GPS is but mine is accurate to within about six feet.

The most accurate numbers you will ever find on this matter are in the references that I gave you earlier.  As I understand your comments, you have a friend who is a "Mathematical true genius" who you believe can come up with better numbers than previously used.  I don't think you understand what you are actually saying.

For the record, I have known about 30 or 40 technical graduates of MIT, the USAF Academy, the Naval Academy, and the US Military Academy at West Point.  All were involved in the aeronautical sciences and not a single one of them would make the statements you make above.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
What statements are you questioning ? The guy I mentioned is by far the best Mathematician I have ever known. Is that who you are questioning ? He was awarded a full paid 4 year scholarship to MIT and he was eons above everyone in our Class including the teacher. What has this to do with the 30 or 40 graduates you mentioned?
 

Offline FLYJACK

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4092 on: December 05, 2017, 10:08:35 PM »
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Quote
What is the closed angle of the airstairs, looks close to 20 degrees.. perhaps this is why Cooper indicated trouble to crew.. they unlocked but didn't drop. The placard was found approx 20:04 est.. 20 min after first light indicator.

This is all well documented...yes, they drop 20 degree's when released, and will not drop until you step on the stairs while in flight. the wind is also a factor preventing the stairs to the locked position..230 lbs. wasn't enough to do the job.

Got it, you were referring to the drop test, a drop of 20 degrees not a drop to 20 degrees.

I did a little more digging to clarify the airstair indicator lights..

Tina claimed the red Airstair indicator light came on on the cockpit, this is impossible. The cockpit has an Amber or Green light. The rear inside and outside main controls have a red light.

So, either Tina got the colour wrong, the red light she claims was for something else or ??.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4093 on: December 05, 2017, 10:19:41 PM »
I'll look at my flight manual as well..I seem to recall three different lights, but could be wrong...
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4094 on: December 05, 2017, 10:51:19 PM »
AFT AIRSTAIR Warning Light
System

One or both control station red lights may be inoperative when the airstair is in the DOWN
and LOCKED position.

One or both control station red lights may be inoperative with the airstair UP and locked provided the F/E panel amber AFT AIRSTAIR light operates normally.
 
 
F/E panel amber AFT AIRSTAIR light may be inoperative provided:
a)       Control station red light operates normally during airstair operation, and
b)       Control station red light extinguishes when locked UP

(O) F/E panel green AFT AIRSTAIR light may
be inoperative.
 
 
 1) 727-100C, 200F,
     and 727-100,
     727-200 Cargo
     Conversions
     (STC’s) In
     Class “E”
     Configuration
 
 
 
(M) May be inoperative provided:
a)       Door is deactivated closed,
b)       No persons, cargo handlers or passengers are carried behind the cargo, and either:
1)       A tail stand is used for cargo loading and unloading, or
2)       An acceptable fueling and loading schedule, designed to prevent aircraft tipping, is utilized.