Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
5 (11.1%)
25% Cooper lived
3 (6.7%)
35% Cooper lived.
1 (2.2%)
50% Cooper lived
10 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
9 (20%)
100 Cooper lived
17 (37.8%)

Total Members Voted: 40

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 431284 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5655 on: August 31, 2020, 03:28:29 PM »
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Reposted -

The hijacking was a transaction. People who initiate transactions often state their terms at the beginning.

Flo reached in her purse for a pen and notepad to write down Cooper's conditions .  He said: “No funny stuff or I’ll do the job. After this we’ll take a little trip. Schaffner got permission from the hijacker to take the notes to the pilot.”

Thus Cooper stated literally what he planned to do right at the start. A trip to Mexico announced later was but a diversion intended to divert people's attention. The crew was so focused on themselves and the diversion they didn’t recognize what was happening until it was over, and even then they had to discuss it further between themselves, according to Anderson, before notifying anyone! Rataczak broke the stalemate and notified the company. A typical dysfunctional bureaucratic response at a critical time when accuracy mattered.     

Cooper was also keeping track of time. Either he had a watch or he was relying on others who had watches, like Tina Mucklow. While in the holding pattern over Seattle the hijacker noted: "It is 5:15 and we are still waiting. I wanted everything by 5:00 o’clock!".

Cooper was timing everything in real time. It appears he intended to jump near Portland, where everything started. Cooper was precise in stating what he intended to do in his opening statements with Flo and Tina.

*sources: all quotes are from FBI 302s and FBI Crew Interviews.     

Again, you claim that Cooper made a statement about 5:15 PM.  Exactly where is your source for that statement?  There is no such statement in the transcripts or the 302s.

Here. May be you have the redacted copies!?  ;)  Things just get all screwed up in your world!  Dont waste your breath asking again - 
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 05:29:02 PM by georger »
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5656 on: September 16, 2020, 10:13:55 AM »
Conversation/argument starter:

Does the discovery of the placard by hunters in 1978 lend credence to the FBI's V23 flight path or the Western Flight Path?
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5657 on: September 16, 2020, 12:58:37 PM »
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Conversation/argument starter:

Does the discovery of the placard by hunters in 1978 lend credence to the FBI's V23 flight path or the Western Flight Path?

Chaucer, the placard and some other matters support what is now called the Western Flight Path.  This has been discussed at considerable lengths here and at DropZone for the last 10 years.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5658 on: September 16, 2020, 01:10:12 PM »
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Conversation/argument starter:

Does the discovery of the placard by hunters in 1978 lend credence to the FBI's V23 flight path or the Western Flight Path?

Chaucer, the placard and some other matters support what is now called the Western Flight Path.  This has been discussed at considerable lengths here and at DropZone for the last 10 years.

I am posting a link below to a Google Map showing my version of the Western Flight Path. It illustrates the fiberglass skirt find location, the placard find location, and the money find location. It depicts what I consider very close to the actual flight path.

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Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 
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Offline Chaucer

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5659 on: September 16, 2020, 02:31:21 PM »
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Conversation/argument starter:

Does the discovery of the placard by hunters in 1978 lend credence to the FBI's V23 flight path or the Western Flight Path?

Chaucer, the placard and some other matters support what is now called the Western Flight Path.  This has been discussed at considerable lengths here and at DropZone for the last 10 years.
Tom Kaye’s Citizen Sleuths website would indicate otherwise? Also, you assume that your opinion is the consensus when it seems more like the minority opinion.
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5660 on: September 16, 2020, 03:07:05 PM »
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Conversation/argument starter:

Does the discovery of the placard by hunters in 1978 lend credence to the FBI's V23 flight path or the Western Flight Path?

Chaucer, the placard and some other matters support what is now called the Western Flight Path.  This has been discussed at considerable lengths here and at DropZone for the last 10 years.
Tom Kaye’s Citizen Sleuths website would indicate otherwise? Also, you assume that your opinion is the consensus when it seems more like the minority opinion.

Chaucer, there you go again.  You are the one who needs to start sticking to science and facts and not just your opinions or the opinions of others.  So far as I am aware, you don't have a single fact to disprove the so-called Western Flight Path.  And how about mentioning your aeronautical qualifications that make you feel qualified to question that flight path.  You can't hide behind "Chaucer" for ever.

Since 2010, I have posted extensively both here and on DropZone the facts that support the Western Flight Path and the problems with other proposed flight paths.  I have listed my aeronautical qualifications and signed those posts with my real name.  Or to put it another way, I stand behind what I have posted on the Western Flight Path and that is more than just opinions.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5661 on: September 16, 2020, 03:17:12 PM »
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Conversation/argument starter:

Does the discovery of the placard by hunters in 1978 lend credence to the FBI's V23 flight path or the Western Flight Path?

Chaucer, the placard and some other matters support what is now called the Western Flight Path.  This has been discussed at considerable lengths here and at DropZone for the last 10 years.

I am posting a link below to a Google Map showing my version of the Western Flight Path. It illustrates the fiberglass skirt find location, the placard find location, and the money find location. It depicts what I consider very close to the actual flight path.

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Where is your timeline?

My biggest criticism is this doesn't look like a "flight path". Certainly not a flight path flown in an emergency! The Cooper Hijacking emergency !  Your flight path looks like an uneventful trip to the Bahamas for a vacation!! It does not match the events that occurred minute by minute. But you will make something up as you always do and then wallpaper with endless advertising campaigns..  :o 
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 03:23:07 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5662 on: September 16, 2020, 03:23:45 PM »
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Conversation/argument starter:

Does the discovery of the placard by hunters in 1978 lend credence to the FBI's V23 flight path or the Western Flight Path?

Chaucer, the placard and some other matters support what is now called the Western Flight Path.  This has been discussed at considerable lengths here and at DropZone for the last 10 years.

I am posting a link below to a Google Map showing my version of the Western Flight Path. It illustrates the fiberglass skirt find location, the placard find location, and the money find location. It depicts what I consider very close to the actual flight path.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Where is your timeline?

My biggest criticism is this doesn't look like a "flight path". Certainly not a flight path flown in an emergency! The Cooper Hijacking emergency !  Your flight path looks like a trip to the Bahamas for a vacation!! It does not match the events that occurred minute by minute. But you will make something up as you always do and then wallpaper with endless advertising campaigns..  :o

Georger, where is your timeline?
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5663 on: September 16, 2020, 03:28:13 PM »
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Conversation/argument starter:

Does the discovery of the placard by hunters in 1978 lend credence to the FBI's V23 flight path or the Western Flight Path?

Chaucer, the placard and some other matters support what is now called the Western Flight Path.  This has been discussed at considerable lengths here and at DropZone for the last 10 years.

I am posting a link below to a Google Map showing my version of the Western Flight Path. It illustrates the fiberglass skirt find location, the placard find location, and the money find location. It depicts what I consider very close to the actual flight path.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Where is your timeline?

My biggest criticism is this doesn't look like a "flight path". Certainly not a flight path flown in an emergency! The Cooper Hijacking emergency !  Your flight path looks like a trip to the Bahamas for a vacation!! It does not match the events that occurred minute by minute. But you will make something up as you always do.  :o

Well if the Western Flight Path looks like a trip to the Bahamas then the FBI Flight Path looks like the pilots after they've been there a few days with Pina Coladas and all.

There is no problem with the timeline. The turn at Maylay lines up and the 23 mile DME reference lines up too. Most importantly, the 8:12 minute puts the jet very near the Ridgefield National Wildlife Refuge which also makes sense.

That's my theory. Nothing more. Nothing less.

As always, if someone cares to debate my theory and challenge it on a Cooper Vortex podcast--Darren permitting--I'm willing to do that too. If someone can reasonably explain the fiberglass skirt find, the placard find, the money find, the May/June diatoms, the lack of a body, parachute or attache' case, and all the rest I'm all ears.

Cheers!
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline grapesofwrath

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5664 on: September 16, 2020, 03:29:12 PM »
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I am posting a link below to a Google Map showing my version of the Western Flight Path. It illustrates the fiberglass skirt find location, the placard find location, and the money find location. It depicts what I consider very close to the actual flight path.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

If you are the pilot on a hijacked airplane flying to Reno from Seattle, this seems like an ineffective route. Especially if you are trying your hardest to avoid major cities, in case the "bomb" detonates. Interesting theory, though.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5665 on: September 16, 2020, 03:31:22 PM »
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Conversation/argument starter:

Does the discovery of the placard by hunters in 1978 lend credence to the FBI's V23 flight path or the Western Flight Path?

Chaucer, the placard and some other matters support what is now called the Western Flight Path.  This has been discussed at considerable lengths here and at DropZone for the last 10 years.
Tom Kaye’s Citizen Sleuths website would indicate otherwise? Also, you assume that your opinion is the consensus when it seems more like the minority opinion.

Chaucer, there you go again.  You are the one who needs to start sticking to science and facts and not just your opinions or the opinions of others.  So far as I am aware, you don't have a single fact to disprove the so-called Western Flight Path.  And how about mentioning your aeronautical qualifications that make you feel qualified to question that flight path.  You can't hide behind "Chaucer" for ever.

Since 2010, I have posted extensively both here and on DropZone the facts that support the Western Flight Path and the problems with other proposed flight paths.  I have listed my aeronautical qualifications and signed those posts with my real name.  Or to put it another way, I stand behind what I have posted on the Western Flight Path and that is more than just opinions.

Qualifications?

"The flight path coordinates were calculated from data tape recorded at the McChord Air Defense Command Direction Center (DC).  The calculation and the plotting were almost certainly done by the McChord detachment of the 84th Radar Evaluation Squadron (RADES).   It was their job to do such analyses, and the DC were just users of the system. It was all in a day's work for them. "

sHOW US YOUR DATA TAPE ?
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5666 on: September 16, 2020, 03:33:08 PM »
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I am posting a link below to a Google Map showing my version of the Western Flight Path. It illustrates the fiberglass skirt find location, the placard find location, and the money find location. It depicts what I consider very close to the actual flight path.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

If you are the pilot on a hijacked airplane flying to Reno from Seattle, this seems like an ineffective route. Especially if you are trying your hardest to avoid major cities, in case the "bomb" detonates. Interesting theory, though.

The pilots were essentially flying Victor 23 all the way down. It's not as simple as pointing the jet in a straight line and flying to Reno. Also, this path enables them to avoid the major population centers of Vancouver and Portland.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5667 on: September 16, 2020, 03:36:34 PM »
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I am posting a link below to a Google Map showing my version of the Western Flight Path. It illustrates the fiberglass skirt find location, the placard find location, and the money find location. It depicts what I consider very close to the actual flight path.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

If you are the pilot on a hijacked airplane flying to Reno from Seattle, this seems like an ineffective route. Especially if you are trying your hardest to avoid major cities, in case the "bomb" detonates. Interesting theory, though.

The pilots were essentially flying Victor 23 all the way down. It's not as simple as pointing the jet in a straight line and flying to Reno. Also, this path enables them to avoid the major population centers of Vancouver and Portland.

This path? Essentially ?  :rofl:

This is actual history not "This path" ...... "your path" vs. "actual history"!

Which version do you want text books to carry? Which version do you want stuffed into children's minds?   The choice is history and facts vs indoctrination and myth.

"The flight path coordinates were calculated from data tape recorded at the McChord Air Defense Command Direction Center (DC).  The calculation and the plotting were almost certainly done by the McChord detachment of the 84th Radar Evaluation Squadron (RADES).   It was their job to do such analyses, and the DC were just users of the system. It was all in a day's work for them. "

sHOW US YOUR DATA TAPE ?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 03:43:03 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5668 on: September 16, 2020, 03:43:43 PM »
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I am posting a link below to a Google Map showing my version of the Western Flight Path. It illustrates the fiberglass skirt find location, the placard find location, and the money find location. It depicts what I consider very close to the actual flight path.

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If you are the pilot on a hijacked airplane flying to Reno from Seattle, this seems like an ineffective route. Especially if you are trying your hardest to avoid major cities, in case the "bomb" detonates. Interesting theory, though.

The pilots were essentially flying Victor 23 all the way down. It's not as simple as pointing the jet in a straight line and flying to Reno. Also, this path enables them to avoid the major population centers of Vancouver and Portland.

To add to EU's comments, Cooper specified that the airliner was to fly at 10,000 feet.

And there plenty of mountains in the Cascade range between Seattle and Reno that are higher than 10,000 feet.  The Minimum Obstruction Clearance Altitude (MOCA) on V-23 south of Portland is 10,000 feet. 

In Northern California, the airliner had to climb to 11,000 feet to clear the mountains to get to Reno.
 

Offline grapesofwrath

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5669 on: September 16, 2020, 03:57:53 PM »
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I am posting a link below to a Google Map showing my version of the Western Flight Path. It illustrates the fiberglass skirt find location, the placard find location, and the money find location. It depicts what I consider very close to the actual flight path.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

If you are the pilot on a hijacked airplane flying to Reno from Seattle, this seems like an ineffective route. Especially if you are trying your hardest to avoid major cities, in case the "bomb" detonates. Interesting theory, though.

The pilots were essentially flying Victor 23 all the way down. It's not as simple as pointing the jet in a straight line and flying to Reno. Also, this path enables them to avoid the major population centers of Vancouver and Portland.

If the aircraft was just a few miles east of this proposed flight path, you would be right over Vancouver and Portland. Regardless, this path still flies over suburban Portland. If the goal was to avoid major cities and populated areas while still flying west, it would make more sense to hug the coast and make a sharp turn between Portland/Salem or Salem/Eugene.