Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
5 (11.4%)
25% Cooper lived
3 (6.8%)
35% Cooper lived.
1 (2.3%)
50% Cooper lived
10 (22.7%)
75% Cooper lived
9 (20.5%)
100 Cooper lived
16 (36.4%)

Total Members Voted: 39

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 422537 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5610 on: May 12, 2020, 02:33:21 AM »
If it matters, here is Tina's testimony describing Cooper working with the chutes and lines:

Interview 11-30 Mucklow:    Mucklow states that at takeoff from Seattle the hijacker was in seat 18-D or 18-E, occupying both seats at various times, and she was seated across the aisle in 18-C. Mucklow states that at takeoff the hijacker was using several seats and was occupied with opening one of the parachutes and attempting to pack the money in the parachute container and attach it to his body using the parachute (container’s) straps. Mucklow recalls that the parachute was a bright pink-orange color. Mucklow’s description is somewhat vague but she says he removed a small jack-knife from his pocket and he cut some portion of the outside container or the parachute in order to secure the money in ‘this’ rather than in the white cloth type bank bag which had been furnished him. She says that she did not see him tamper with the two large parachute containers other than to generally inspect them when she brought them aboard.       

Interview of Mucklow 12/1-2 at her home in PA:    When Mucklow returned to the plane with the last back pack chute, she saw that the hijacker had one of the small chutes open and was cutting nylon cords out with his pocket knife. He took the nylon cord and wrapped it around the neck of the money bag numerous times and then he wrapped it a few times from top to bottom, and with the same piece (of cord)  he made a loop like a handle at the top. This nylon cord was pinkish in color. He appeared irritated that they hadn’t given him a knapsack for the money as requested, and after trying to put the money in an unfolded parachute, he decided to leave it in the canvas bag (and fabricate a holding line for that, instead).   

Approximately four minutes after take off he stood up and told her to go the cockpit and close the first class curtain, and for no one to come back behind the curtain. The lights were out in the rear compartment and she went forward, faced the curtain, and turned around and looked and the last time she saw him he had a nylon cord tied around his waste and he was standing in the isle. Before she secured the curtain she called back and pleaded with him to take the bomb with him or disarm it before he left.   

1. opened and cut cord from only one of the 'small chutes'.
2. tried to fabricate containers using (a) the bank bag, and (b) one small chute container.
3. had a nylon cord tied around his waste.
4. did not tamper with the two large parachute containers.
 

Offline dudeman17

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5611 on: May 12, 2020, 02:37:07 AM »
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Shutter,  Go to DropZone and take a look at posts #61861 by Flyjack and #61862 by Dudeman17.  The frayed cords in the picture of Linn Emrick with several chest reserves are exactly what we have been talking about here.  But their purpose is still not known.

Shutter, Also take a look at posts #61855 and #61860 while you are at DropZone.

Dudeman17, Were your first several jumps "static line" ones?  When you started free fall training did you have instructors along side you during the free falls?

Is it possible the The frayed cords, have no purpose?  Just extraneous cordage that serves no purpose ... like the ends of shoe laces that flap in the wind ?

Melting the para cord ends is no accident and has been done on purpose by somebody, to stop fraying.  Boy scouts, sailors, climbers etc do that.

I know nothing about chutes, but 'ergo' - a melted para cord end was done by someone on purpose.

They've got to have some purpose, or why would they be there? They're not connected to anything else, they're just larks headed to the handle. Maybe they're just errant pull-up cords?
 
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Offline dudeman17

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5612 on: May 12, 2020, 02:48:48 AM »
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If it matters, here is Tina's testimony describing Cooper working with the chutes and lines:

Interview 11-30 Mucklow:    Mucklow states that at takeoff from Seattle the hijacker was in seat 18-D or 18-E, occupying both seats at various times, and she was seated across the aisle in 18-C. Mucklow states that at takeoff the hijacker was using several seats and was occupied with opening one of the parachutes and attempting to pack the money in the parachute container and attach it to his body using the parachute (container’s) straps. Mucklow recalls that the parachute was a bright pink-orange color. Mucklow’s description is somewhat vague but she says he removed a small jack-knife from his pocket and he cut some portion of the outside container or the parachute in order to secure the money in ‘this’ rather than in the white cloth type bank bag which had been furnished him. She says that she did not see him tamper with the two large parachute containers other than to generally inspect them when she brought them aboard.       

Interview of Mucklow 12/1-2 at her home in PA:    When Mucklow returned to the plane with the last back pack chute, she saw that the hijacker had one of the small chutes open and was cutting nylon cords out with his pocket knife. He took the nylon cord and wrapped it around the neck of the money bag numerous times and then he wrapped it a few times from top to bottom, and with the same piece (of cord)  he made a loop like a handle at the top. This nylon cord was pinkish in color. He appeared irritated that they hadn’t given him a knapsack for the money as requested, and after trying to put the money in an unfolded parachute, he decided to leave it in the canvas bag (and fabricate a holding line for that, instead).   

Approximately four minutes after take off he stood up and told her to go the cockpit and close the first class curtain, and for no one to come back behind the curtain. The lights were out in the rear compartment and she went forward, faced the curtain, and turned around and looked and the last time she saw him he had a nylon cord tied around his waste and he was standing in the isle. Before she secured the curtain she called back and pleaded with him to take the bomb with him or disarm it before he left.   

1. opened and cut cord from only one of the 'small chutes'.
2. tried to fabricate containers using (a) the bank bag, and (b) one small chute container.
3. had a nylon cord tied around his waste.
4. did not tamper with the two large parachute containers.

That's what Tina saw him do. It would be unknown what he did after she went forward. He may or may not have tampered with the dummy reserve after she left him.

A question: How much time between when Tina goes forward and when he is believed to have jumped?
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5613 on: May 12, 2020, 02:51:32 AM »
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If it matters, here is Tina's testimony describing Cooper working with the chutes and lines:

Interview 11-30 Mucklow:    Mucklow states that at takeoff from Seattle the hijacker was in seat 18-D or 18-E, occupying both seats at various times, and she was seated across the aisle in 18-C. Mucklow states that at takeoff the hijacker was using several seats and was occupied with opening one of the parachutes and attempting to pack the money in the parachute container and attach it to his body using the parachute (container’s) straps. Mucklow recalls that the parachute was a bright pink-orange color. Mucklow’s description is somewhat vague but she says he removed a small jack-knife from his pocket and he cut some portion of the outside container or the parachute in order to secure the money in ‘this’ rather than in the white cloth type bank bag which had been furnished him. She says that she did not see him tamper with the two large parachute containers other than to generally inspect them when she brought them aboard.       

Interview of Mucklow 12/1-2 at her home in PA:    When Mucklow returned to the plane with the last back pack chute, she saw that the hijacker had one of the small chutes open and was cutting nylon cords out with his pocket knife. He took the nylon cord and wrapped it around the neck of the money bag numerous times and then he wrapped it a few times from top to bottom, and with the same piece (of cord)  he made a loop like a handle at the top. This nylon cord was pinkish in color. He appeared irritated that they hadn’t given him a knapsack for the money as requested, and after trying to put the money in an unfolded parachute, he decided to leave it in the canvas bag (and fabricate a holding line for that, instead).   

Approximately four minutes after take off he stood up and told her to go the cockpit and close the first class curtain, and for no one to come back behind the curtain. The lights were out in the rear compartment and she went forward, faced the curtain, and turned around and looked and the last time she saw him he had a nylon cord tied around his waste and he was standing in the isle. Before she secured the curtain she called back and pleaded with him to take the bomb with him or disarm it before he left.   

1. opened and cut cord from only one of the 'small chutes'.
2. tried to fabricate containers using (a) the bank bag, and (b) one small chute container.
3. had a nylon cord tied around his waste.
4. did not tamper with the two large parachute containers.

That's what Tina saw him do. It would be unknown what he did after she went forward. He may or may not have tampered with the dummy reserve after she left him.

A question: How much time between when Tina goes forward and when he is believed to have jumped?

I will have to look it up but its considerable  .... keep in mind after he ordered her forward he then had to get the stairs out which took some time ...
I will go back to my timeline to nail all of this down. 
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5614 on: May 12, 2020, 02:55:46 AM »
Timeline: ATC flight comm.

19:42        Seattle he is already trying to get the door down. Stewardess (Mucklow) is with us (in cockpit). He cannot get the stairs down.
305:      We now have an aft stair lite on

20:11 - 20:15     He jumps ...

so about 20-25 minute separation between when Tina sees him last and he gets door open and jump at say 8:10-11 or slightly later.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 03:04:12 AM by georger »
 

Offline dudeman17

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5615 on: May 12, 2020, 03:21:29 AM »
Curious and possibly fortunate his struggle with the stairs. I don't know if any of this is documented, but... From something I read and a video I saw of the stairs being operated on the ground, It's my understanding that in normal operation those stairs are either all the way up or all the way down - you can't open them partway. If he had succeeded in hydraulically opening the door and they were all the way down, they may have effected a tail-up, nose-down influence that may have made the plane difficult to control. I'm guessing he then pulled the emergency handle, which would disconnect them from the hydraulic system, which is why they were free-floating. Note that when the military did intentional jumps / cargo drops from those planes, they did not fly with the door open, rather they removed the door/stair assembly altogether.
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5616 on: May 12, 2020, 05:59:29 AM »
I made this last night before going to bed. I'll look on the DZ..I'm guessing Fly did the samething...
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5617 on: May 12, 2020, 06:11:47 AM »
Looking on the DZ shows Fly did the same as I did..his picture is more clear and confirms what I thought I seen..

I seen no logic in having cord from another chute while plenty of cord was available from the pink chute itself.

I also seen someone joined this forum while I was away claiming he couldn't get approved..he joined April 28th. I have approved the account. sometimes it gets rejected through the spam filter or emails don't look good or used. then sometimes I forget to check..
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 06:17:34 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5618 on: May 12, 2020, 06:56:24 AM »
Dudeman, have you looked at our Cooper vault on our website? lots of info

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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5619 on: May 12, 2020, 12:26:10 PM »
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I made this last night before going to bed. I'll look on the DZ..I'm guessing Fly did the samething...

Shutter, those are two chest reserve parachutes, not one.  This can be better seen from the larger picture of Emrick standing with several reserves.

ADDENDUM:  Blevins has posted a larger picture of Emrick in post #61867.  Take a look.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 12:37:28 PM by Robert99 »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5620 on: May 12, 2020, 03:07:45 PM »
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The Emerick photo in question cleaned etc ... bigger isnt always better -  ;)

Bigger is definitely better here.  The picture that Shutter posted shows the two chest reserves whose tops are about parallel with the bottom of Emrick's shirt.  On small pictures these two look like one large chute.  But have you ever seen a chest reserve with four, count them four, snaps to attach to the D-rings?  And how about two, count them two, ripcords?  Etc., etc., .....?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 03:10:14 PM by Robert99 »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5621 on: May 12, 2020, 03:25:00 PM »
A quick note on photo formats being posted at DZ -

Blevins photos will copy here because Blevins is using a standard Windows file format software common to the USA industry.

FLYJACK photos will NOT copy here without first doing a file type conversion, because FJ is not using a standard Windows file format, but something else - Shutter's forum will only accept Windows type photo formats but will not accept FJ's photo file types! This means a FLYJACK jpeg posted at DZ will not be accepted and post here, without first converting the FLYJACK jpeg into a Windows recognized "jpeg" ! Just try it .... FLYJACK is a true 'outlier' even in his file formats used and he probably knows this . . .     



 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5622 on: May 12, 2020, 03:29:56 PM »
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The Emerick photo in question cleaned etc ... bigger isnt always better -  ;)

Bigger is definitely better here.  The picture that Shutter posted shows the two chest reserves whose tops are about parallel with the bottom of Emrick's shirt.  On small pictures these two look like one large chute.  But have you ever seen a chest reserve with four, count them four, snaps to attach to the D-rings?  And how about two, count them two, ripcords?  Etc., etc., .....?

Good - then look at only Blevins, FJ, and Shutter photos .... since you are incapable of posting photos yourself@!  ;)
For your information, Mr Engineering Man ... there is a photo limit of only 200k here vs. 300k or larger at DZ !   That translates into a vastly larger photo posting limit at DZ vs. here. 

I may now post no further photos to YOUR forum ............  which is a huge time saver/relief to me! Good luck Mr. Engineering Man! 
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 04:16:27 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5623 on: May 12, 2020, 04:14:23 PM »
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The Emerick photo in question cleaned etc ... bigger isnt always better -  ;)

Bigger is definitely better here.  The picture that Shutter posted shows the two chest reserves whose tops are about parallel with the bottom of Emrick's shirt.  On small pictures these two look like one large chute.  But have you ever seen a chest reserve with four, count them four, snaps to attach to the D-rings?  And how about two, count them two, ripcords?  Etc., etc., .....?

Good - then look at only Blevins, FJ, and Shutter photos .... since you are incapable of posting photos yourself@!  ;)

I may now post no further photos to YOUR forum ............  which is a huge time saver/relief to me! Good luck Mr. Engineering Man!

Oh, golly!  I never said anything about posting pictures here.  Perhaps someone can explain to you why I listed post numbers on DropZone.  Nothing beats going to the original sources!

Shutter's post I referred to is "Reply #128", above, on this thread.  Perhaps someone can help you find it.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 04:17:38 PM by Robert99 »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5624 on: May 12, 2020, 04:26:04 PM »
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I made this last night before going to bed. I'll look on the DZ..I'm guessing Fly did the samething...

Shutter, those are two chest reserve parachutes, not one.  This can be better seen from the larger picture of Emrick standing with several reserves.

ADDENDUM:  Blevins has posted a larger picture of Emrick in post #61867.  Take a look.

Yes, I realize they are in rows of two with the exception of the one on the bottom..I was pointing out the lines and a ripcord on one of the chutes.