Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
4 (11.1%)
25% Cooper lived
2 (5.6%)
35% Cooper lived.
1 (2.8%)
50% Cooper lived
8 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
7 (19.4%)
100 Cooper lived
14 (38.9%)

Total Members Voted: 34

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 180452 times)

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2670 on: June 08, 2018, 10:03:11 PM »
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Cooper did ask for maps?? What maps were they??

There is no further mention anywhere of Cooper asking for maps or saying anything about maps.  However, Al Lee, the NWA Chief Pilot in Seattle, got together as many maps as he could for the area between Seattle and Mexico (once Cooper said he wanted to go to Mexico) and sent them out to the airliner with the crew meals (which Cooper had specifically asked for).  But Cooper apparently never mentioned maps at all again, and while he specifically agreed to the landing in Reno to refuel, he never mentioned the flight path or aircraft locations at any time after take off.
 

Online FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2671 on: June 09, 2018, 12:12:12 PM »
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Cooper did ask for maps?? What maps were they??

There is no further mention anywhere of Cooper asking for maps or saying anything about maps.  However, Al Lee, the NWA Chief Pilot in Seattle, got together as many maps as he could for the area between Seattle and Mexico (once Cooper said he wanted to go to Mexico) and sent them out to the airliner with the crew meals (which Cooper had specifically asked for).  But Cooper apparently never mentioned maps at all again, and while he specifically agreed to the landing in Reno to refuel, he never mentioned the flight path or aircraft locations at any time after take off.

Another dead end, the FBI should just release all information.. they have given up on a prosecution.
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2672 on: June 09, 2018, 12:34:10 PM »
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Cooper did ask for maps?? What maps were they??

There is no further mention anywhere of Cooper asking for maps or saying anything about maps.  However, Al Lee, the NWA Chief Pilot in Seattle, got together as many maps as he could for the area between Seattle and Mexico (once Cooper said he wanted to go to Mexico) and sent them out to the airliner with the crew meals (which Cooper had specifically asked for).  But Cooper apparently never mentioned maps at all again, and while he specifically agreed to the landing in Reno to refuel, he never mentioned the flight path or aircraft locations at any time after take off.

Another dead end, the FBI should just release all information.. they have given up on a prosecution.

Agreed.  But the FBI has gone out of its way to prevent the release of the un-redacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts for the flight south.  So don't get your hopes up that anything more than routine administrative paperwork will be released.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2673 on: June 09, 2018, 02:26:21 PM »
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Cooper did ask for maps?? What maps were they??

There is no further mention anywhere of Cooper asking for maps or saying anything about maps.  However, Al Lee, the NWA Chief Pilot in Seattle, got together as many maps as he could for the area between Seattle and Mexico (once Cooper said he wanted to go to Mexico) and sent them out to the airliner with the crew meals (which Cooper had specifically asked for).  But Cooper apparently never mentioned maps at all again, and while he specifically agreed to the landing in Reno to refuel, he never mentioned the flight path or aircraft locations at any time after take off.

Another dead end, the FBI should just release all information.. they have given up on a prosecution.

Agreed.  But the FBI has gone out of its way to prevent the release of the un-redacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts for the flight south.  So don't get your hopes up that anything more than routine administrative paperwork will be released.

Here's to rose lipped maidens and fleet footed lads - and Grandma looking like she did when she was 19!

In that perfect world the FBI releases its info.  :rofl:
 

Offline fcastle866

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2674 on: June 13, 2018, 10:04:50 AM »
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OK, why weren't tests of the tie ordered? Sure this was pre DNA forensics, but pollen, fibers and other telling particles might have been found. I'm baffled why they just tagged and bagged it.

You mean Tom's tests? Ask Tom.

I've seen discussion about the tie being connected to Boeing, industrial chemicals, Tektronix, a dentist's office, etc.  Check out the link below about the daily operation of a railroad.  Go to about 13:40 and watch to 14:15 or so, just 35 seconds. It shows a train going into the repair yard, and men working with lathes, drill presses, torches, and grinders.   If it was a Boeing or Tektronix employee, wouldn't they have been caught? I understand that many people want to focus solely on Boeing, but if we are talking about dentist's offices, couldn't the particles have come from somewhere besides Boeing?


 
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Online FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2675 on: June 13, 2018, 10:19:59 AM »
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OK, why weren't tests of the tie ordered? Sure this was pre DNA forensics, but pollen, fibers and other telling particles might have been found. I'm baffled why they just tagged and bagged it.

You mean Tom's tests? Ask Tom.

I've seen discussion about the tie being connected to Boeing, industrial chemicals, Tektronix, a dentist's office, etc.  Check out the link below about the daily operation of a railroad.  Go to about 13:40 and watch to 14:15 or so, just 35 seconds. It shows a train going into the repair yard, and men working with lathes, drill presses, torches, and grinders.   If it was a Boeing or Tektronix employee, wouldn't they have been caught? I understand that many people want to focus solely on Boeing, but if we are talking about dentist's offices, couldn't the particles have come from somewhere besides Boeing?

Absolutely, IMO Boeing is a poor match..

The tie particles don't really fit a railyard shop and tie wearing,, lack of steel and asbestos and positive for Yttrium for example. Railyards lack the "rare earths" particle environment.

I think the rareness of Yttrium is the key..
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 10:25:42 AM by FLYJACK »
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2676 on: June 13, 2018, 10:40:41 AM »
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OK, why weren't tests of the tie ordered? Sure this was pre DNA forensics, but pollen, fibers and other telling particles might have been found. I'm baffled why they just tagged and bagged it.

You mean Tom's tests? Ask Tom.

I've seen discussion about the tie being connected to Boeing, industrial chemicals, Tektronix, a dentist's office, etc.  Check out the link below about the daily operation of a railroad.  Go to about 13:40 and watch to 14:15 or so, just 35 seconds. It shows a train going into the repair yard, and men working with lathes, drill presses, torches, and grinders.   If it was a Boeing or Tektronix employee, wouldn't they have been caught? I understand that many people want to focus solely on Boeing, but if we are talking about dentist's offices, couldn't the particles have come from somewhere besides Boeing?

Absolutely, IMO Boeing is a poor match..

The tie particles don't really fit a railyard shop and tie wearing,, lack of steel and asbestos and positive for Yttrium for example. Railyards lack the "rare earths" particle environment.

I think the rareness of Yttrium is the key..

You mean like rareness vs rarity?

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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2677 on: June 13, 2018, 10:43:19 AM »
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OK, why weren't tests of the tie ordered? Sure this was pre DNA forensics, but pollen, fibers and other telling particles might have been found. I'm baffled why they just tagged and bagged it.

You mean Tom's tests? Ask Tom.

I've seen discussion about the tie being connected to Boeing, industrial chemicals, Tektronix, a dentist's office, etc.  Check out the link below about the daily operation of a railroad.  Go to about 13:40 and watch to 14:15 or so, just 35 seconds. It shows a train going into the repair yard, and men working with lathes, drill presses, torches, and grinders.   If it was a Boeing or Tektronix employee, wouldn't they have been caught? I understand that many people want to focus solely on Boeing, but if we are talking about dentist's offices, couldn't the particles have come from somewhere besides Boeing?


anyone checking this out with Tom and Allen? You know Allen is a materials expert who specializes in materials destruction, breakage, etc.  You need to run what JACK is posting by someone!  ;) Nothing and nobody is immune to peer review. Just sayin ...
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 10:55:42 AM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2678 on: June 13, 2018, 11:37:08 AM »
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OK, why weren't tests of the tie ordered? Sure this was pre DNA forensics, but pollen, fibers and other telling particles might have been found. I'm baffled why they just tagged and bagged it.

You mean Tom's tests? Ask Tom.

I've seen discussion about the tie being connected to Boeing, industrial chemicals, Tektronix, a dentist's office, etc.  Check out the link below about the daily operation of a railroad.  Go to about 13:40 and watch to 14:15 or so, just 35 seconds. It shows a train going into the repair yard, and men working with lathes, drill presses, torches, and grinders.   If it was a Boeing or Tektronix employee, wouldn't they have been caught? I understand that many people want to focus solely on Boeing, but if we are talking about dentist's offices, couldn't the particles have come from somewhere besides Boeing?

Absolutely, IMO Boeing is a poor match..

The tie particles don't really fit a railyard shop and tie wearing,, lack of steel and asbestos and positive for Yttrium for example. Railyards lack the "rare earths" particle environment.

I think the rareness of Yttrium is the key..

Yttrium is about 31 ppm of the Earth's crust, making it the 28th most abundant element, 400 times more common than silver.  By that standard it is not exactly 'rare'. So rarity needs to be defined in the Cooper context.

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The most important uses of yttrium are LEDs and phosphors, particularly the red phosphors in television set cathode ray tube (CRT) displays.[7] Yttrium is also used in the production of electrodes, electrolytes, electronic filters, lasers, superconductors, various medical applications, and tracing various materials to enhance their properties.

Yttrium has no known biological role. Exposure to yttrium compounds can cause lung disease in humans . . .
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 11:40:24 AM by georger »
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2679 on: June 13, 2018, 07:42:49 PM »
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OK, why weren't tests of the tie ordered? Sure this was pre DNA forensics, but pollen, fibers and other telling particles might have been found. I'm baffled why they just tagged and bagged it.

You mean Tom's tests? Ask Tom.

I've seen discussion about the tie being connected to Boeing, industrial chemicals, Tektronix, a dentist's office, etc.  Check out the link below about the daily operation of a railroad.  Go to about 13:40 and watch to 14:15 or so, just 35 seconds. It shows a train going into the repair yard, and men working with lathes, drill presses, torches, and grinders.   If it was a Boeing or Tektronix employee, wouldn't they have been caught? I understand that many people want to focus solely on Boeing, but if we are talking about dentist's offices, couldn't the particles have come from somewhere besides Boeing?

Absolutely, IMO Boeing is a poor match..

The tie particles don't really fit a railyard shop and tie wearing,, lack of steel and asbestos and positive for Yttrium for example. Railyards lack the "rare earths" particle environment.

I think the rareness of Yttrium is the key..

I have never understood why so many seem to think Coop could have EASILY been a Boeing employee! Why ? The Portland Boeing plant is located less than 10 miles from Portland Airport ! Not much different distant of Boeing plant from SeaTac! Is anyone so naive to think Coop’s Coworkers wouldn’t recognize him? Tektronics isn’t that far away from Portland Airport either !
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2680 on: June 13, 2018, 07:47:02 PM »
I agree, I find it hard to believe someone would hijack a plane over employment issues..not to say it couldn't happen..today, they just shoot the place up with everyone in it..that doesn't make a lot of sense either..
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2681 on: June 13, 2018, 07:54:44 PM »
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OK, why weren't tests of the tie ordered? Sure this was pre DNA forensics, but pollen, fibers and other telling particles might have been found. I'm baffled why they just tagged and bagged it.

You mean Tom's tests? Ask Tom.

I've seen discussion about the tie being connected to Boeing, industrial chemicals, Tektronix, a dentist's office, etc.  Check out the link below about the daily operation of a railroad.  Go to about 13:40 and watch to 14:15 or so, just 35 seconds. It shows a train going into the repair yard, and men working with lathes, drill presses, torches, and grinders.   If it was a Boeing or Tektronix employee, wouldn't they have been caught? I understand that many people want to focus solely on Boeing, but if we are talking about dentist's offices, couldn't the particles have come from somewhere besides Boeing?

Absolutely, IMO Boeing is a poor match..

The tie particles don't really fit a railyard shop and tie wearing,, lack of steel and asbestos and positive for Yttrium for example. Railyards lack the "rare earths" particle environment.

I think the rareness of Yttrium is the key..

I have never understood why so many seem to think Coop could have EASILY been a Boeing employee! Why ? The Portland Boeing plant is located less than 10 miles from Portland Airport ! Not much different distant of Boeing plant from SeaTac! Is anyone so naive to think Coop’s Coworkers wouldn’t recognize him? Tektronics isn’t that far away from Portland Airport either !

No one is claiming that Cooper called in sick from his Boeing job so that he could hijack the airliner.  But everything that Cooper said about the Boeing 727 was more or less public knowledge in early 1964.  Cooper could have been a contractor or such for Boeing working in a very small group of people who might not have recognized him if he had previously worn a mustache or beard.

So don't dismiss the Boeing connection unless you have real solid information on the matter.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2682 on: June 13, 2018, 07:59:27 PM »
I still believe it could of been some guy watching the tarmac and seen an opportunity..all you needed back then was to walk in the hanger and ask questions, or other places..it could be as simple as that, but who knows?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2683 on: June 13, 2018, 08:00:31 PM »
same with the grudge...it's endless to what he meant when he stated that..
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2684 on: June 13, 2018, 08:04:28 PM »
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I agree, I find it hard to believe someone would hijack a plane over employment issues..not to say it couldn't happen..today, they just shoot the place up with everyone in it..that doesn't make a lot of sense either..

In Seattle in the late 1960s and early 1970s "employment issues" were in the newspaper headlines just about every day.  I think about 40,000 people or so, about half of Boeing's employees in that area, were laid off due to the cancellation of the SST and other programs.

In that same period of time, I arrived at LAX in Los Angeles one afternoon and about the first thing I saw was that morning's newspaper headlines that said a certain company's employees, who were already laid off, were going to lose their health insurance.

That was a rough time for Seattle, Los Angeles, and every other city that had an aviation based economy.  Some engineering organizations were publicly recommending that college students not major in engineering.