Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
5 (11.9%)
25% Cooper lived
2 (4.8%)
35% Cooper lived.
1 (2.4%)
50% Cooper lived
10 (23.8%)
75% Cooper lived
8 (19%)
100 Cooper lived
16 (38.1%)

Total Members Voted: 37

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 338550 times)

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #60 on: April 14, 2014, 03:37:38 AM »
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Get a load of this story....

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Wow.  I guess I ought to go to northern Mexico soon and look for David Warren, eh?
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #61 on: April 14, 2014, 12:44:06 PM »
Also check for Judge Crater while you are there.
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #62 on: April 14, 2014, 04:00:54 PM »
Further on this matter, Grupo Elon seems to be something that would be of interest to some of the posters on another thread.  Among other things, they have the date of the Cooper hijacking wrong and apparently are suggesting that Brian Ingram didn't really find any of the ransom money at Tina Bar.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #63 on: April 14, 2014, 08:18:36 PM »
you mean these guys ....

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Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #64 on: April 14, 2014, 10:14:00 PM »
That is them!
 

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #65 on: April 15, 2014, 02:51:59 PM »
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This area will be for basic discussion of the topic of DB Cooper.

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Here is an article about the FBI's new generation fingerprint technology. I wonder if Eng would authorize the latent prints lifted from the airplane to run through the new updated system. Also, I wonder if how many fingerprints have been uploaded into the system pre-1971. From information forwarded to me by the Dane County Sheriffs Dept (Wisconsin) and my liaison officer at NamUs, my father's prints  are still on a fingerprint card and were not uploaded to IAFIS (the fingerprint identification system used after 1999 to the present).

You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #66 on: April 15, 2014, 03:37:23 PM »
Vicki, give it a shot and contact the FBI.  The cost should be near zero and, based on the OK state results, there is a good chance (20%) of something worthwhile coming from this.

In any event, I would suggest that you ask the Sheriff to get those prints into the FBI's system.  And for the FBI to check them against their entire database.

Eventually, someone has to win the jackpot and, sooner or later, it could be you.
 

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #67 on: April 15, 2014, 04:24:51 PM »
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Vicki, give it a shot and contact the FBI.  The cost should be near zero and, based on the OK state results, there is a good chance (20%) of something worthwhile coming from this.

In any event, I would suggest that you ask the Sheriff to get those prints into the FBI's system.  And for the FBI to check them against their entire database.

Eventually, someone has to win the jackpot and, sooner or later, it could be you.

Thank Robert,

I sent the following email with the link to my liaison officer at NamUs:

Hi Janet,

According to this article, the FBI has a new fingerprint system that will be slowly replacing the IAFIS system that has been used since 1999. I know we have spoke previously about having my father's (Melvin Wilson) fingerprints uploaded into IAFIS. I know NamUs has them, however I do not know if they have been uploaded into the FBI's system.

I know this is a long-shot as SA Crtis Eng from the Seattle FO is the know-all do-all behind the Cooper case as he was for the DNA comparisons. However...is he the head dog on the latent fingerprints left on the plane on November 24, 1971? 

What I am saying is...if the latent prints are in the IAFIS or new system database, could they be waiting for the addition of prints that could match?  Just thinking out loud!  ;)

I hope all is well with you.


NamUs has my Dad's prints from his arrest file at Dane County for the passing of counterfeit notes from 04/20/1971. They were forwarded by the Sheriffs Department to NamUs last year and added to their database.

The issue we are having with SA Eng is any correspondence from my DOJ liaison is answered with a generic note from Ayn Deitrich. Here is their last interaction:

My Liaison at NamUs sent this email to Curtis Eng:

Agent Eng,
     Please accept this as my formal request to request the FBI lab to compare the DNA samples you have of D.B. Cooper, with the samples that the University of N. Texas has with one Melvin Wilson, UNT missing person MP# 15178.
     This potential match has been requested before, but was not responded to.
     Your assistance with this comparison would be greatly appreciated.


Here is the reply she received from Ayn:

Hello, Ms. ------------—
 
I work with Special Agent Eng in the FBI Seattle field office and I handle inquiries from the media and public.  SA Eng forwarded me your email so I could explain to you the limitations we face in responding to your inquiry.
 
During any given investigation, the FBI receives many tips, follows many leads, and talks to many people.  In accordance with DOJ policy, we cannot discuss details of ongoing investigations. This includes not disclosing subjects considered and/or excluded, and investigative techniques that may be used.  I understand the public and valued partners to the FBI are curious about the FBI's investigative process, and they may rest assured that the FBI pursues all leads that we believe will provide us with information of investigative value. 

SA Eng has received your messages and handled them appropriately.  I apologize that we are unable to disclose the nature and extent of our investigative response.
 
Regards,
Ayn


I guess I can't win the jackpot unless I play!!!! So GAME ON...We can only hope the Seattle FO will play along.   :)
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #68 on: April 15, 2014, 04:36:17 PM »
Ayn Deitrich's response appears to be a standard post-Marla Cooper reply.  But get Melvin's prints into the FBI's database if at all possible.  Presumably, the US Marshalls would have done that in 1971. 
 

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #69 on: April 15, 2014, 04:44:41 PM »
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Ayn Deitrich's response appears to be a standard post-Marla Cooper reply.  But get Melvin's prints into the FBI's database if at all possible.  Presumably, the US Marshalls would have done that in 1971.

You would assume, however the Western District of Wisconsin's US Marshal's office in Madison could not inform me what was done or being done on this cold case. The case is still open, but in November 2001 they closed it to further investigation.

The FBI has the prints...but would they upload them into a system that went online in 1999 if the case was under the jurisdiction of another Federal division? We all know that these departments do not communicate or play well together with their information. Obviously, this practice still goes on today.
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 

Offline EVickiW

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #70 on: April 16, 2014, 03:48:39 PM »
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A recent article about the Mad Men DB Cooper plot. Geoffrey Gray was interviewed for this article (Geoffrey posted this on Facebook).
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #71 on: April 21, 2014, 10:14:01 PM »
Interesting video here. Cooper is not discussed until about 12 minutes in. he claims 6 bills are missing from the bundle found in 1980????



« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 07:03:04 AM by shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #72 on: April 21, 2014, 10:31:52 PM »
The Redneck Archaeologist Show  8) he also claims missing bills

« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 07:07:42 AM by shutter »
 

georger

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Re: Did Cooper inspect the chutes ???
« Reply #73 on: April 22, 2014, 04:51:13 PM »
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The Redneck Archaeologist Show  8) he also claims missing bills

Im going to post the following in response to "Did Cooper inspect the chutes", alleged by RMB elsewhere. RMB's weak claim is that 'ex-military people would inspect the chutes, novices would not inspect the chutes, Cooper did inspect the chutes, therefore: Cooper was ex-military and probably was Christiansen!' This evokes responses by both 377 and myself as follows:

Issue: Cooper inspecting of chutes provided:

Unless Cooper examined the packing cards (and this is disputed, Himmelsbach told me personally that there is no evidence that it happened), there is no way Cooper could know what canopy was inside each container. With an NB 6 or 8 it was likely to have a miltary high speed ejection canopy inside but by no means certain.

The canopy is far more important than the harness and container for being able to safely deploy at high speeds. I have heard af canopies blowing up if deployed above rated speeds but harness failures are extremely rare and are usually due to preexisting unrepaired damage.

According to Norman both rigs had the same military high speed canopies inside but Cooper may not have known that. Just slipping a bit of fabric out to examine it wouldn't tell you much about canopy type, size and speed rating. It would just tell you whether it was made of ripstop or twill material.

Cooper did make the right choice in my opinion but without knowing more about his thought process and whether he examined the packing cards, we cant rule out the possibility that it was a random choice.

I have a recent email address for Sheridan and wrote to him but he continues to ignore me. The very good news is that he got radiation treatment for his cancer and says that he is cured. He also posted on a blog that he was beaten up. By who? Why? I asked him but no response. Who would beat up a sick man in his 80s?

When I sent him the cheer package through Bruce a few years ago he was very grateful and friendly but later flipped and called me FBI CIA etc. I tried to send him another cheer package during the holidays at the end of 2013, but he would not supply an address.

Anyway I am very glad his health is improving. Too bad I cant have a dialog with him. I'd love to hear his opinion about Norjack and Cooper. I'd also like to know why he thinks the FBI even bothered asking a blue eyed man for a DNA sample to rule him out as Cooper? Think about it, that is quite odd. His eye color alone should have ruled him out but the FBI apparently didnt agree.

377    -   reply by Georger below…

The other issue is what did the stews SEE Cooper do when the chutes were brought on board at approx 5:30pm pst until the time when Tina goes forward, turns and watches Cooper, then goes into the cockpit at roughly ~7:42pm pst ("Stewardess
(Mucklow) is with us (in cockpit)". This spans roughly 2 hours and 12 minutes!

Posts by Ckret etal about what the stews saw and testified to, go way back in the thread. This has all be thoroughly discussed before...

Hancock (Ckret) reported 'Cooper began putting on a parachute almost immediately after they were brought in' (~5:30pm). Tina confirmed that (Ckret) and added ' he put it on easily as if he had done it before' and 'he refused instructions that I handed him saying "I don't need those'' '. Tina added: 'He opened one of the chutes and looked inside then closed it up before putting it on'. All of this transpired shortly after the chutes being brought on board and given Cooper at roughly 5:30pm pst.

The next reference to Cooper's preparations or chutes comes at roughly 7:42pm pst when Tina (now in the cockpit) reports she 'saw Cooper open one chute and began trying to dump money into the container, then Cooper began cutting cords from the chute, and is tying parachute cord around his waste apparently in an attempt to secure the parachute container full of money around his waste'. She says 'he looks likes he's going to jump
soon...'. Scott accordingly reports on the radio ' ... looks like he's getting ready to leave...'

The only period of time when Cooper was not under observation is from 7:42pm to roughly ~8:11-8:16 when he bails.

Nobody reported seeing Cooper open chutes and give them a thorough inspection before 7:42. When Tina last saw Cooper at ~7:42 he had already put on a chute over an hour before, he spent time cutting cord and tying a chute container full of money around his waste, and the flight engineer then reports Cooper finishing getting the door open and the stairs down, Cooper trying the stairs (oscillation?), Cooper finally comes back to the area where the intercom is located and answers the intercom at ~8:05 saying everything is "OK", and the pressure bump occurs ~8:11-8:15 (reported by Rataczak after discussion
among the crew somewhere near the 8:16-8:20 period).

From 7:42 until Cooper he bails at ~8:11-8:16 Cooper appears to have been fully occupied and looking for an opportunity to jump. In the 8:05 period, for example, he wasn't even in the area of the intercom to answer it quickly. We also know from Rataczak and Anderson testimony that Cooper called front on the intercom one more time between 8:05-8:10 (not reported in the Transcripts) and asked them to "slow and stabilize the plane". There is no time or reason to be inspecting chutes, taking off and putting on chutes, etc etc after the 7:42 time mark!

That is the basic factual record supported by witness testimony, the Transcripts, and discussion/testimony in the thread to date.

 
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #74 on: April 22, 2014, 07:24:11 PM »
Your timeline is excellent, Georger.  Thanks.