Author Topic: Book Discussion About DB Cooper  (Read 75072 times)

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8323
  • Thanked: 807 times
Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #75 on: October 01, 2015, 11:50:53 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I don't believe that Richard McCoy was DB Cooper. At all.

The big questions I have is, what was McCoy doing in Vegas during Cooper's hijacking?  Transiting to PDX to be a getaway guy for Cooper?


It's his credit card linking him to Vegas, right? did anyone put him there physically?
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #76 on: October 01, 2015, 11:59:38 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I don't believe that Richard McCoy was DB Cooper. At all.

The big questions I have is, what was McCoy doing in Vegas during Cooper's hijacking?  Transiting to PDX to be a getaway guy for Cooper?

I think Calme tried to establish a relationship between McCoy and Cooper but never could confirm one. McCoy and his wife were definitely a team, and probably independent of whoever Cooper was. ???
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3748
  • Thanked: 247 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #77 on: October 02, 2015, 12:13:38 AM »
Not exactly true, G. When I talked with Calame, he was adamant in his belief that McCoy was Cooper. That was in 2008. Along those lines, Nick O'Hara surprised me when he acknowledged in 2012 that lots of retired agents from the SLC office were still true believers, as well.

So, the question for these guys (and us) is - if McCoy wasn't Cooper, did he still have a relationship with him? Getaway guy? Student and mentor? Buddies in the same skyjacking club? Army buddies from Vietnam???

BTW: To characterize Karen McCoy as a "team" with her husband is misleading, since she is widely thought to have thrown Richard under the bus in a deal with the feds - reveal his hiding place in Virginia Beach in exchange for a pass on the conspiracy charge of being a getaway driver, and money stasher...

...it was a tough deal, since if she refused then her kids go to foster care when she heads to jail. What I don't understand is the animosity she displayed towards Calame and Rhodes in an alleged lawsuit over the book and film deal, and why not even her attorney would talk to GG.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 12:16:50 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #78 on: October 02, 2015, 12:28:21 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Not exactly true, G. When I talked with Calame, he was adamant in his belief that McCoy was Cooper. That was in 2008. Along those lines, Nick O'Hara surprised me when he acknowledged in 2012 that lots of retired agents from the SLC office were still true believers, as well.

So, the question for these guys (and us) is - if McCoy wasn't Cooper, did he still have a relationship with him? Getaway guy? Student and mentor? Buddies in the same skyjacking club? Army buddies from Vietnam???

BTW: To characterize Karen McCoy as a "team" with her husband is misleading, since she is widely thought to have thrown Richard under the bus in a deal with the feds - reveal his hiding place in Virginia Beach in exchange for a pass on the conspiracy charge of being a getaway driver, and money stasher...

...it was a tough deal, since if she refused then her kids go to foster care when she heads to jail. What I don't understand is the animosity she displayed towards Calame and Rhodes in an alleged lawsuit over the book and film deal, and why not even her attorney would talk to GG.

I have to assume the investigations of Cooper & McCoy overlapped. I have to assume a lot of people were canvassed in McCoys' net work looking for any connecti0on between McCoy and Cooper. Calme and others may have thought McCoy was Cooper but apparently no concrete evidence was found.... not even a 'brag' on McCoy's part, which is out of character for McCoy?

I think McCoy's wife was up to her eyeballs in her husbands life and if she did not actively conspire in his hijacking she probably thought something 'untoward' was a possibility. Weren't they in financial difficulty? She came out smelling like a rose!

Then, from the sublime to the ridiculous: why were Jo and Duane Weber attracted to McCoy's story story when they moved to McCoy's 'Virginia Beach'! That is one for Jo's analyst!  :)       
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 12:30:56 AM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3748
  • Thanked: 247 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #79 on: October 02, 2015, 03:09:18 AM »
I don't believe that McCoy was Cooper. But Georger, any thoughts on what McCoy was doing in Las Vegas on November 24 and 25th, and again on November 2-3?

Just a Mormon Sunday School teacher who likes to go honkey-tonking every now and then? A suicidal Vietnam vet struggling with PTSD just looking to get his mind clear before heading back to the daily grind?

Also, do you know how he learned so much about DB Cooper's MO? Was stuff like the port positioning of the fuel trucks discussed in the papers? Further, how did DB Cooper know that kind of stuff, like the bomb-over-a-gun, no contact with cockpit crew, collecting all of the notes, etc.?

« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 03:12:46 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3748
  • Thanked: 247 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #80 on: October 02, 2015, 03:36:01 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I have to assume the investigations of Cooper & McCoy overlapped. I have to assume a lot of people were canvassed in McCoys' net work looking for any connecti0on between McCoy and Cooper. Calme and others may have thought McCoy was Cooper but apparently no concrete evidence was found.... not even a 'brag' on McCoy's part, which is out of character for McCoy?
       

For some, like Russ Calame, the investigation of Richard McCoy was totally intertwined with the Cooper investigation. Further, Calame told me that the Seattle case agent also was a strong believer that McCoy was Cooper.

As for McCoy bragging, Bernie Rhodes wrote that he began to admire how tight lipped and stoic McCoy was when the odds were getting stacked against him. But clearly, McCoy told his buddy Van Ieperen a lot - but never mentioned DBC, apparently.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 03:36:56 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline sailshaw

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 233
  • Thanked: 4 times
Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #81 on: October 02, 2015, 09:23:08 AM »
Bruce:  You say "For some, like Russ Calame, the investigation of Richard McCoy was totally intertwined with the Cooper investigation. Further, Calame told me that the Seattle case agent also was a strong believer that McCoy was Cooper."
I say:  "McCoy was too short at 5ft 8in just like Kenney Christensen to be a 6ft tall DB Cooper"
Why continue with wrong suspects? Why did the FBI not understand the difference between 5ft 8in and 6ft? Why are they not comparing the DNA from the stamps/envelope flaps of the four letters sent to the newspapers post Norjak with Sheridan Peterson?

Bob Sailshaw
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
 

Offline nmiwrecks

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • MichiganMysteries.com
Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #82 on: October 02, 2015, 09:33:10 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Bruce:  You say "For some, like Russ Calame, the investigation of Richard McCoy was totally intertwined with the Cooper investigation. Further, Calame told me that the Seattle case agent also was a strong believer that McCoy was Cooper."
I say:  "McCoy was too short at 5ft 8in just like Kenney Christensen to be a 6ft tall DB Cooper"
Why continue with wrong suspects? Why did the FBI not understand the difference between 5ft 8in and 6ft? Why are they not comparing the DNA from the stamps/envelope flaps of the four letters sent to the newspapers post Norjak with Sheridan Peterson?

Bob Sailshaw
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Bob,
Do you have height, weight, eye color, hair color for McCoy from a reliable source?  I would like to add it to our suspect matrix.

Thanks,
Ross
"If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got." - Henry Ford
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #83 on: October 02, 2015, 01:57:07 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Bruce:  You say "For some, like Russ Calame, the investigation of Richard McCoy was totally intertwined with the Cooper investigation. Further, Calame told me that the Seattle case agent also was a strong believer that McCoy was Cooper."
I say:  "McCoy was too short at 5ft 8in just like Kenney Christensen to be a 6ft tall DB Cooper"
Why continue with wrong suspects? Why did the FBI not understand the difference between 5ft 8in and 6ft? Why are they not comparing the DNA from the stamps/envelope flaps of the four letters sent to the newspapers post Norjak with Sheridan Peterson?

Bob Sailshaw
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The question I always had was if Cooper was someone in McCoy's background and heard McCoy bragging talking, doing what-ifs, etc ... and pulled the plug first on what was essentially McCoy's idea ... we know McCoy had a BIG mouth. But, with the new data I am more convinced than ever that Cooper and McCoy were completely unrelated and Cooper was independent. Perhaps even a foreigner. 

I have the feeling McCoy wasn't playing with a full deck ... was a deeply confused and deluded individual ... whereas Cooper knew exactly what he was doing and had a reason(s).
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 01:59:57 PM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3748
  • Thanked: 247 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #84 on: October 02, 2015, 04:12:14 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Bruce:  You say "For some, like Russ Calame, the investigation of Richard McCoy was totally intertwined with the Cooper investigation. Further, Calame told me that the Seattle case agent also was a strong believer that McCoy was Cooper."
I say:  "McCoy was too short at 5ft 8in just like Kenney Christensen to be a 6ft tall DB Cooper"
Why continue with wrong suspects? Why did the FBI not understand the difference between 5ft 8in and 6ft? Why are they not comparing the DNA from the stamps/envelope flaps of the four letters sent to the newspapers post Norjak with Sheridan Peterson?

Bob Sailshaw
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Sail, as we have discussed, I encourage you to take action to get the DNA from the envelopes and stamps - file a FOIA, call Congressman and Congresswomen, such as Dave Reichert, the former King County Sheriff who apprehended the Green River Killer, and other prominent public figures. You gotta take this to the streets to get the FBI to budge.

As for McCoy, I think you misunderstand my writing. I am simply reporting what others in Norjak were/are thinking about Richard McCoy. I, like most folks, do not think McCoy was Cooper.

That said, his involvement in Norjak seems to have strong possibilities. His mysterious trips to Las Vegas in November 1971, need further probing.
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8323
  • Thanked: 807 times
Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #85 on: October 02, 2015, 04:13:10 PM »
Quote
I have the feeling McCoy wasn't playing with a full deck ... was a deeply confused and deluded individual ... whereas Cooper knew exactly what he was doing and had a reason(s).


McCoy was far more advanced than Cooper. he fell into the typical criminal not being able to keep his trap shut. he has a rather impressive background. it almost seems like he acted out something vs planing it. he stated he could do the crime, or jump easily. what caused him to go over the edge? he's a man of his word. he said he could do the crime, and he stated they couldn't hold him. accomplished both, but that's not a record to be proud of by any means. 
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3748
  • Thanked: 247 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #86 on: October 02, 2015, 07:33:14 PM »
To say that McCoy was "far more advanced than Cooper" is only partially true in my view. Yes, McCoy's decision to hijack a plane enroute to the west coast from Denver was an improvement over Cooper's short Portland-to-Seattle hop.

As for describing McCoy as a "deeply confused and an deluded individual," again, I only agree partially. McCoy was suicidal and hospitalized in the fall of 1971, and that supports your characterization somewhat, but not fully.

He was clearly confused about what to do with the money and his gear once he got back home. He had no end game, at all, as far as I can see.

But his execution of the hijacking was excellent - no evidence of delusion or confusion there. Anticipating the tracking devices in the chutes and using them as decoys was brilliant. Bringing a duffel bag big enough for half a mil, another.

But telling his wife for months that he was going to do the skyjacking was not so smart. It shows the soft underbelly of his psychological structure. He didn't have the full mental and emotional compliment to be a truly successful hijacker.

One of the items that came out of my remote viewing sessions that I particularly enjoyed was when one of the DBC personas told me that he and his colleagues don't need to talk about their work. Hence, they don't. I remember his line that "If you need to talk about the operation, then you can't be part of us. No one in these kinds of operations is flabby or gabby. If you are, you're gone."

Also, I thought the description of his living environment was also appropriate for a Cooper-style operation - living in a military area, with a wife who is conditioned not to ask her husband about his military work.

Maybe DB Cooper lived in the Fort Bragg area or North Carolina, and one of his missions was to fly to South America and deploy from a 727 to assassinate local officials whom the USG didn't like.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 07:35:12 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3748
  • Thanked: 247 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #87 on: October 02, 2015, 07:38:41 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
But, with the new data I am more convinced than ever that Cooper and McCoy were completely unrelated and Cooper was independent. Perhaps even a foreigner. 

What new data, Georger? What makes you think that McCoy had no relationship whatsoever with Cooper?
 

Offline andrade1812

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 509
  • Thanked: 71 times
    • My Website
Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #88 on: October 02, 2015, 07:51:02 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Bruce:  You say "For some, like Russ Calame, the investigation of Richard McCoy was totally intertwined with the Cooper investigation. Further, Calame told me that the Seattle case agent also was a strong believer that McCoy was Cooper."
I say:  "McCoy was too short at 5ft 8in just like Kenney Christensen to be a 6ft tall DB Cooper"
Why continue with wrong suspects? Why did the FBI not understand the difference between 5ft 8in and 6ft? Why are they not comparing the DNA from the stamps/envelope flaps of the four letters sent to the newspapers post Norjak with Sheridan Peterson?

Bob Sailshaw
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Bob,
Do you have height, weight, eye color, hair color for McCoy from a reliable source?  I would like to add it to our suspect matrix.

Thanks,
Ross

According to the FBI wanted flyer (produced after McCoy escaped from prison), he was 5'10" and 170 lbs with blue eyes, brown hair, a dark complexion and "large protruding ears."

The flyer was reprinted in "The Real McCoy" by B. Rhodes.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3748
  • Thanked: 247 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #89 on: October 28, 2015, 06:08:12 PM »
Update: Hard-Copy edition, DB Cooper and the FBI

I've been asked a bit when the hard-copy version will be available. Producing a book via the Print on Demand method is a lot more complicated than I thought it was going to be initially.  Here's the current status that I emailed off to Hank Bertsch:

"The hard-copy will also have an Index, which I am working on at present. It takes a lot of work to clean that sucker up. Whew.

"Size is also becoming an issue. I'm over 500 pages. In the e-Book that wasn't a problem, but with paper and bindings, it is.  I've begun thinking of divvying the book up into separate works. One would be the "Case Study," with the skyjacking, search, suspects and confessees. Number Two would be the FBI and all of their inconsistencies, titled: "Why Can't the FBI Find DB Cooper?" Not sure where to put the documentaries and cultural stuff, like Ariel. That is a separate angle on this story. I've been involved in a few docus, and it is becoming increasingly frustrating and disappointing to deal with these guys. Their heart is just not into investigation."