Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 330741 times)

Offline Prospector

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3105 on: September 23, 2021, 07:24:19 PM »
Bruce Smith:

Have you ever experienced the frustration of searching and not being able to find something, ultimately to find it right there under your nose, in plain sight? 

For some people, who cooper is/was, is a mystery.  Equally for some, why the case was “administratively closed” is a mystery.   You posted an article on August 18, 2011 titled: ‘DB Cooper Report: An Interview with Ayn Dietrich, Seattle FBI spokesperson’.  You may be well positioned to ‘solve’ both mysteries if you put a little creative thought into it.


 

Offline snowmman

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3106 on: September 23, 2021, 07:44:02 PM »
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Bruce Smith:

Have you ever experienced the frustration of searching and not being able to find something, ultimately to find it right there under your nose, in plain sight? 

For some people, who cooper is/was, is a mystery.  Equally for some, why the case was “administratively closed” is a mystery.   You posted an article on August 18, 2011 titled: ‘DB Cooper Report: An Interview with Ayn Dietrich, Seattle FBI spokesperson’.  You may be well positioned to ‘solve’ both mysteries if you put a little creative thought into it.

why post gobbleygook?
If you want to say something, just say it.
Why throw a bunch of words at the wall, and assume people would bother guessing at what you're trying to say?

I mean, it's like me going ";alsdfja-s0s9df8 !!!"
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3107 on: September 25, 2021, 04:50:05 AM »
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Bruce Smith:

Have you ever experienced the frustration of searching and not being able to find something, ultimately to find it right there under your nose, in plain sight? 

For some people, who cooper is/was, is a mystery.  Equally for some, why the case was “administratively closed” is a mystery.   You posted an article on August 18, 2011 titled: ‘DB Cooper Report: An Interview with Ayn Dietrich, Seattle FBI spokesperson’.  You may be well positioned to ‘solve’ both mysteries if you put a little creative thought into it.

How little?
 

Offline Prospector

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3108 on: September 25, 2021, 04:19:02 PM »
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Bruce Smith:

Have you ever experienced the frustration of searching and not being able to find something, ultimately to find it right there under your nose, in plain sight? 

For some people, who cooper is/was, is a mystery.  Equally for some, why the case was “administratively closed” is a mystery.   You posted an article on August 18, 2011 titled: ‘DB Cooper Report: An Interview with Ayn Dietrich, Seattle FBI spokesperson’.  You may be well positioned to ‘solve’ both mysteries if you put a little creative thought into it.

How little?

Come on now Bruce, you can do much better than that.    Did you read what you wrote or have you become lazy like other contemporary journalists and merely regurgitate the narrative that is spoon-fed to you and then move on?  Not much faith is held in the vast majority of your fellow forum members to see the importance of your article, they are too caught-up on building irrelevant bridges to nowhere, not really trying to answer the question of his true identity.  There are some though who have a more pragmatic approach to the problem and may see the value of your words.  Perhaps if you take some time away from the clutter that surrounds you, take a walk in the woods, have a bubble bath with your favorite rubber ducky, whatever you do to unwind – but de-clutter.  Look at things with a fresh perspective, you are the closest you have ever been to unravelling the enigma.  If it is too much thinking for you, it may be a good time to consider a new hobby to pass the time away.

 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3109 on: September 25, 2021, 06:50:21 PM »
...where is that rubber ducky..... it was right here a minute ago...
 
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Offline Prospector

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3110 on: September 26, 2021, 01:26:46 AM »
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...where is that rubber ducky..... it was right here a minute ago...

It is admirable that you can see humor in what must be a somewhat painful experience for you, a stark reminder of the days when you had open communication with them.  Recent comments you have made about their lack of response to your communication attempts highlights this.  One thing that was a curiosity from the outset of my research, was them using you as a talking head for their investigation.  The concept of the Useful Idiot (UI) to some degree explained this apparent anomaly in the way they do things.  For some reason you became redundant and were no longer useful to their objectives.  You went from UI to I, and they won’t respond when you call. 
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3111 on: September 26, 2021, 04:47:23 AM »
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Bruce Smith:

Have you ever experienced the frustration of searching and not being able to find something, ultimately to find it right there under your nose, in plain sight? 

For some people, who cooper is/was, is a mystery.  Equally for some, why the case was “administratively closed” is a mystery.   You posted an article on August 18, 2011 titled: ‘DB Cooper Report: An Interview with Ayn Dietrich, Seattle FBI spokesperson’.  You may be well positioned to ‘solve’ both mysteries if you put a little creative thought into it.

Ya gotta help me out here 'Spector. The piece you reference is over ten years old, and you only give a veiled, snarky quip about it. Give me a hint.

Or how about this: Why don't you tell me what took you ten years to figure these two mysterious mysteries. Digging more deeply, what are the special qualities that you have that I lack? Just askin'...
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3112 on: September 26, 2021, 11:27:29 AM »
I remember at the weekly conspiracy Zoom call (it's damn hard to keep a conspiracy running well during Covid shutdown)...someone brought up "Prospector" and what we were going to do to deal with him. He was just too damn good.

New guy suggested another false flag operation should work. It looks like Prospector took the bait.

Covid shutdowns are nothing when you have an all-powerful cabal running things!
« Last Edit: September 26, 2021, 11:43:05 AM by snowmman »
 

Offline JAG

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3113 on: September 27, 2021, 06:35:15 AM »
Prospector, the take aways from the article you referenced were basically:

- Ayn Dietrich, the PIO for the FBI, made a comment in an interview that the LDC lead was the most promising lead to date...

- Ayn, took Bruce's call, and actually spoke to him...apparently, this was a bit unusual? Are you saying she was intentionally
using Bruce for something ?

- Ayn, then while speaking to Bruce, walked the "most promising lead" comment back a little

- In the interview, Bruce hit on few important questions:

   1) Fingerprints: the FBI did not have any from LDC to compare to the latent fingerprints in evidence
        2) DNA: "no significant match" was made between LDC and the DNA the FBI has in case evidence
        3) Eyewitness:  Kind of a non answer here WRT Tina or any of the flight attendants being shown a pic of LDC

So are you saying that LDC is DB Cooper ? Is he your suspect ?  That Ayn was being coy with Bruce ?

Also, a while back, you wrote post where you seemed to indicate that you thought that Coop was a poster on this and
perhaps other Cooper forums, do you still feel that way ? Thanks !
 

Offline Prospector

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3114 on: September 28, 2021, 12:28:26 AM »
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Prospector, the take aways from the article you referenced were basically:

- Ayn Dietrich, the PIO for the FBI, made a comment in an interview that the LDC lead was the most promising lead to date...

- Ayn, took Bruce's call, and actually spoke to him...apparently, this was a bit unusual? Are you saying she was intentionally
using Bruce for something ?

- Ayn, then while speaking to Bruce, walked the "most promising lead" comment back a little

- In the interview, Bruce hit on few important questions:

   1) Fingerprints: the FBI did not have any from LDC to compare to the latent fingerprints in evidence
        2) DNA: "no significant match" was made between LDC and the DNA the FBI has in case evidence
        3) Eyewitness:  Kind of a non answer here WRT Tina or any of the flight attendants being shown a pic of LDC

So are you saying that LDC is DB Cooper ? Is he your suspect ?  That Ayn was being coy with Bruce ?

Also, a while back, you wrote post where you seemed to indicate that you thought that Coop was a poster on this and
perhaps other Cooper forums, do you still feel that way ? Thanks !

You kind of hit the mark with your pick-up on the FBI walk-back of the mention in passing of the ‘most promising lead’.  The unexpected flurry of media requests from multiple regions overwhelmed them and consumed significant internal resources to ‘put out the fire’ so to speak.  At that time, it was an agency that was at an investigative dead-end, and they were trying new and unusual methods of bringing in new info to help solve the file.  To this end, they were learning as they went.  I would surmise that they would have learned that the global interest in the possibility the case was about to be solved was still intense.  So it is speculated that if at some point in the future that an actual break had been made in the case, they would take the opposite strategy and claim they had nothing and go silent so the work could be conducted without distraction from multiple media or public requests.  Kind of what they did in 2016 – we have nothing, we give up, don’t bother us with any more tips or information.  In the timeframe that they went silent, the advent of genetic genealogy and/or incoming tips may have produced workable evidence.  “Administratively closing” the case may be a smokescreen. 

I have doubts LD is their guy.  If he is found in Canada, it is unlikely Canada would extradite as Air Piracy was not a crime in Canada in 1971.  Not sure about Extortion.  A slim possibility exists they know who he is but can’t get him.  Kind of like those two hijackers they identified in Quebec they can’t touch. 

Do I believe there is a possibility he or someone in the know has posted in the past here or elsewhere – yes.

It is refreshing to see someone digging into things a bit.  Good eye.
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3115 on: October 06, 2021, 06:37:32 PM »
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“Likely” does not mean “definite”.

Each of the difficult conditions and variables decreases Cooper’s chances of survival by a degree. So even if he chance of survival was 90% out of 100. There is still that pesky 10% that people don’t seem to want to entertain. 377 and Andrade along with many others are convinced he survived. I’ve heard from experienced skydivers who are say that was a difficult jump for anyone and especially for someone with little experience.

Anyways, this is the wrong thread for that discussion.

I'm not sure I agree with your model of how "difficulty" couples to survival probability.
There's a number of risk sports, where people never die doing the most difficult thing...they die doing some humdrum thing.

Why? Because they are totally focused during the hard thing, and the mind/body isn't dialed in during the easy thing.
That and many repetitions of "easier" things, can be a total risk equal to one iteration of a riskier thing.

So: a single jump over Portland out of a 727? Maybe not so risky.

Saying you have a model that's accurate for getting the jump successful, when you don't even know Cooper's background or skills...well, you're just guessing right?

You have no idea how much experience Cooper had. Once you give that as a "rationale" for your model..well I think you've invalidated your model.

re: wrong thread...I guess on podcasts stuff like this isn't discussed :)
Pulled this over from the podcast thread...

To be clear, I am not advocating for Cooper dying in the jump. I don't know if he lived or died. I will say that some seem to minimize the risks of the jump to fit their own narrative. Also, I'm not using the word "narrative" pejoratively here. I literally mean that for some, having Cooper lawn dart into the ground is not a very good ending to the story. It's not romantic, and people like to romanticize Cooper and his exploit. I get it.

We don't know Cooper's level of expertise when it comes to jumping from airplanes. We don't know if he had zero jumps, 12 jumps, 100 jumps, or 10,000 jumps. Anyone who says they know for sure is full of it. He could have been a rank amateur or a WWII bomber pilot. We simply don't know.

Also, I think that minimizing the risks inherent in his jump is counterproductive. This was a difficult jump. That doesn't mean it was suicidal, but the factors involved made it dangerous to say the least. They've been discussed ad nauseum over the years:

night jump - if he experienced a complicated malfunction would he have the visibility to manage it? jumping blind; no spot jump
unknown terrain - he had no altimeter
improper equipment - no boots, no helmet, no gloves, no chem light
suboptimal weather - would have experienced the elements immediately wearing just a business suit jumping from a jetliner at 200 mph
using unfamiliar rigs - was it the modified rig Cossey claimed moved the ripcord location?
25 lbs of money haphazardly tied to him - could this have made him asymmetrical in the air?

Again, I'm not pointing to these facts and saying, "There's no way he could have survived." I'm a huge fan of Andrade's research into this. I think it's certainly possible - perhaps likely - that he survived. My point is to say that his survival is far from a slamdunk that we all need to take for granted. I've talked to skydivers and while some of the gung ho guys believe he lived with no problem, others maintain that very few skydivers would attempt that identical jump unless they were experienced in extreme jumps or had a death wish.

So, full circle, I don't know if he lived or died in the jump, but let's not gloss over the difficulty of and risks involved in Cooper's leap.
 
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Offline snowmman

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3116 on: October 06, 2021, 06:50:53 PM »
I guess I just don't understand.

Why would it be risky jumping with Hayden's parachute out the back of a 727 over Portland again?

Are you saying parachutes sometimes don't open properly and that's the risk?

Or is the risk landing in the Columbia  or ??

are you including some assessment of knowledge/skill in the risk assessment?

I think first you assess risk assuming someone knows what they're doing. That's base risk.
Then there's additional risk if the person doesn't know what they're doing.

What exactly is the base risk you're trying to describe?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2021, 06:55:07 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3117 on: October 06, 2021, 06:52:54 PM »
I suspect people are mixing up "fear" and "risk"

Here's the way to analyze risk:

Assuming 1000 people do the exact same jump (over Portland) with same gear out the back of the same 727, at night, same weather

How many die?


Fear doesn't need to be analyzed unless it increases risk. Ideally fear doesn't change the risk equation.
 
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Offline Chaucer

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3118 on: October 06, 2021, 07:42:16 PM »
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I guess I just don't understand.

Why would it be risky jumping with Hayden's parachute out the back of a 727 over Portland again?

Are you saying parachutes sometimes don't open properly and that's the risk?

Or is the risk landing in the Columbia  or ??

are you including some assessment of knowledge/skill in the risk assessment?

I think first you assess risk assuming someone knows what they're doing. That's base risk.
Then there's additional risk if the person doesn't know what they're doing.

What exactly is the base risk you're trying to describe?
All I'm saying is that there were variables at play that increased the difficulty of the jump. I don't think that's a particularly controversial position.
 
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Offline snowmman

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3119 on: October 06, 2021, 10:19:10 PM »
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I guess I just don't understand.

Why would it be risky jumping with Hayden's parachute out the back of a 727 over Portland again?

Are you saying parachutes sometimes don't open properly and that's the risk?

Or is the risk landing in the Columbia  or ??

are you including some assessment of knowledge/skill in the risk assessment?

I think first you assess risk assuming someone knows what they're doing. That's base risk.
Then there's additional risk if the person doesn't know what they're doing.

What exactly is the base risk you're trying to describe?
All I'm saying is that there were variables at play that increased the difficulty of the jump. I don't think that's a particularly controversial position.

What variables?

Night
Turbulence on exit affecting ability to stabilize and pull.
Avoiding river and power lines on landing (and possible detection)
Twisting ankle on landing?
Don't think the money bag affected ability to deploy  canopy.
Don't think rain affected ability to deploy canopy.

Clothing didn't matter.

If Night jumps were inherently risky, the death rate for night jumps in the '70s would have been high ?