General Category > DB Cooper
Flight Path And Related Issues
Chaucer:
The autopilot has been a point of contention.
The 302s show that Paul Soderlind believed the plane was on autopilot. Statements by Bill Rataczak decades later indicate that he was hand flying the aircraft until they reached Reno.
The FBI believed Soderlind.
My personal feelings on the autopilot are two-fold. One, it could be a combination of manual flying and autopilot. They may have flown a portion of the route on autopilot and other portions manually. Another possibility is that it was a different mode of autopilot. There is a great explanation of that here:
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Secondly, whether the autopilot was engaged or not is really a moot point. We know the plane flew down Victor 23. Whether they hand flew it or whether it was on autopilot, we know the flight path. Usually, the only people who care about the autopilot are those looking to poke holes in the USAF flight path or some other related agenda.
JAG:
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginThe autopilot has been a point of contention.
The 302s show that Paul Soderlind believed the plane was on autopilot. Statements by Bill Rataczak decades later indicate that he was hand flying the aircraft until they reached Reno.
The FBI believed Soderlind.
My personal feelings on the autopilot are two-fold. One, it could be a combination of manual flying and autopilot. They may have flown a portion of the route on autopilot and other portions manually. Another possibility is that it was a different mode of autopilot. There is a great explanation of that here:
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login
Secondly, whether the autopilot was engaged or not is really a moot point. We know the plane flew down Victor 23. Whether they hand flew it or whether it was on autopilot, we know the flight path. Usually, the only people who care about the autopilot are those looking to poke holes in the USAF flight path or some other related agenda.
--- End quote ---
I would add that there were some statements made that if the plane was on auto pilot, that the pilots would not be able to feel hijacker on the air stairs or notice a change in elevation/trim. So I think that adds a little more to this issue, we all know about the reported oscillations and pressure bump, but I also recall that it was reported by one of the pilots that they noticed a dip or raising of the nose ? So if that is the case, how could they have felt it if they were on auto pilot would be the question. Not sure if I am mixing some things up that are mutually exclusive, but that is how I am digesting it for the moment.
Chaucer:
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginYou are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginThe autopilot has been a point of contention.
The 302s show that Paul Soderlind believed the plane was on autopilot. Statements by Bill Rataczak decades later indicate that he was hand flying the aircraft until they reached Reno.
The FBI believed Soderlind.
My personal feelings on the autopilot are two-fold. One, it could be a combination of manual flying and autopilot. They may have flown a portion of the route on autopilot and other portions manually. Another possibility is that it was a different mode of autopilot. There is a great explanation of that here:
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login
Secondly, whether the autopilot was engaged or not is really a moot point. We know the plane flew down Victor 23. Whether they hand flew it or whether it was on autopilot, we know the flight path. Usually, the only people who care about the autopilot are those looking to poke holes in the USAF flight path or some other related agenda.
--- End quote ---
I would add that there were some statements made that if the plane was on auto pilot, that the pilots would not be able to feel hijacker on the air stairs or notice a change in elevation/trim. So I think that adds a little more to this issue, we all know about the reported oscillations and pressure bump, but I also recall that it was reported by one of the pilots that they noticed a dip or raising of the nose ? So if that is the case, how could they have felt it if they were on auto pilot would be the question. Not sure if I am mixing some things up that are mutually exclusive, but that is how I am digesting it for the moment.
--- End quote ---
It also states in the 302s that should the plane be on autopilot, then Soderlind should be able to identify "bobs" on the flight data recorder indicating when the autopilot activated corrections. Later, Soderlind did find a "little bob" at 8:09. Would this "little bob" have occured if the plane was being hand flown? I can't say.
The point is that there is evidence existing both ways, and really why does it matter? The plane went from Seattle to Reno via Victor 23. Does it matter if it was on autopilot or not?
JAG:
You are not allowed to view links.
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Register or LoginYou are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginThe autopilot has been a point of contention.
The 302s show that Paul Soderlind believed the plane was on autopilot. Statements by Bill Rataczak decades later indicate that he was hand flying the aircraft until they reached Reno.
The FBI believed Soderlind.
My personal feelings on the autopilot are two-fold. One, it could be a combination of manual flying and autopilot. They may have flown a portion of the route on autopilot and other portions manually. Another possibility is that it was a different mode of autopilot. There is a great explanation of that here:
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login
Secondly, whether the autopilot was engaged or not is really a moot point. We know the plane flew down Victor 23. Whether they hand flew it or whether it was on autopilot, we know the flight path. Usually, the only people who care about the autopilot are those looking to poke holes in the USAF flight path or some other related agenda.
--- End quote ---
I would add that there were some statements made that if the plane was on auto pilot, that the pilots would not be able to feel hijacker on the air stairs or notice a change in elevation/trim. So I think that adds a little more to this issue, we all know about the reported oscillations and pressure bump, but I also recall that it was reported by one of the pilots that they noticed a dip or raising of the nose ? So if that is the case, how could they have felt it if they were on auto pilot would be the question. Not sure if I am mixing some things up that are mutually exclusive, but that is how I am digesting it for the moment.
--- End quote ---
It also states in the 302s that should the plane be on autopilot, then Soderlind should be able to identify "bobs" on the flight data recorder indicating when the autopilot activated corrections. Later, Soderlind did find a "little bob" at 8:09. Would this "little bob" have occured if the plane was being hand flown? I can't say.
The point is that there is evidence existing both ways, and really why does it matter? The plane went from Seattle to Reno via Victor 23. Does it matter if it was on autopilot or not?
--- End quote ---
I think it would matter to the extent that it could impact how any investigator would interpret observations from the pilot(s). If it is believed that when on auto pilot, that the pilots wouldn't be able to feel the hijacker on the stairs (pushing down, jumping or going down and coming back up), then they may not give credence to the pilot saying that they felt the plane move up or down etc. and they may dismiss that observation. Conversely, if not on auto pilot, then observations by the pilot(s) would carry more weight in trying to determine if those observations provide clues to when and where he exited the plane. At least, that's how I am viewing it....good thought "vector" to explore :-)
Robert99:
SOME COMMENTS ON DR. EDWARDS BLOG POST OF NOVEMBER 13, 2022:
1. Airliners have a "minimum equipment list" that must be operational before they depart on a commercial flight. In the 1971 time frame, it appears that NWA had to have at least two operational radio transceivers for voice communications. These transceivers would be wired to be completely independent of each other so that if one failed for some reason the other would still be operational. They would have different power sources and different antenna systems. Consequently, the two transceivers could both transmit and receive at the same time. In the case of NWA 305, it appears that one transceiver was used for communicating with air traffic control, and the other transceiver was used for communicating with the ARINC ground stations.
Several years ago, Fred Poynter of the WSHM and I were informed by ARINC personnel that a typical large airliner today has as many as five transceivers.
2. Poynter's group at the WSHM did a detailed analysis of the ARINC teletype transcripts that the George Harrison family loaned to them and they concluded that there were missing teletype transcripts. And if I remember correctly, the existing transcripts indicated that the phone patch with NWA was established through the ARINC system before the airliner even landed in Seattle at about 5:30 PM PST. Several weeks ago, I suggested that Chaucer get a copy of the WSHM analysis from them but he has apparently not done so.
Further, it appears that teletype transcripts were also routinely made of the voice transmissions over the ARINC system. And according to Chaucer, Carr apparently told him about some of these transcripts that have not been released.
3. With several decades of experience in the military and as an Aeronautical Engineer in the DOD, I can categorically state that the dashed lines in the Seattle ATC transcripts mean that sections of those transcripts have been redacted. This is irrefutable despite any hopes to the contrary.
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