Author Topic: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation  (Read 90550 times)

Offline andrade1812

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #930 on: November 14, 2020, 11:34:45 PM »
Can we finally settle on Cooper's racial/ethnic background

Tom?
 

Offline Tom Kaye

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #931 on: November 14, 2020, 11:52:54 PM »
Ok...... For the Record. 
I am sorry to announce that the DNA profile extracted from the tie was mine. It was not 'like' me, it was a dead match on all the loci. So unfortunately for all of us there is no Cooper DNA at this point.

I was expecting the lab to come up with dozens of profiles but they only came up with one. I don't know if that was a failure of the lab, if the lab actually had no fragmented DNA capability or if there was no DNA on the sample. I was suspicious so I had my own sample run and my DNA matched perfectly. By the time that happened the show was in final edit and that was it. I had signed a non-disclosure so I can only tell you now what happened.


Tom Kaye


« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 11:57:00 PM by Tom Kaye »
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #932 on: November 14, 2020, 11:58:11 PM »
Thanks, Tom.

All I can say is, ...wtf....

Smile.

Also, good to know the gal in Boise is not your daughter. I trust that she is also relieved....
« Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 12:13:51 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 
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Offline georger

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #933 on: November 14, 2020, 11:58:25 PM »
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Ok...... For the Record. 
I am sorry to announce that the DNA profile extracted from the tie was mine. It was not 'like' me, it was a dead match on all the loci. So unfortunately for all of us there is no Cooper DNA at this point.

I was expecting the lab to come up with dozens of profiles but they only came up with one. I don't know if that was a failure of the lab, if the lab actually had no fragmented DNA capability or if there was no DNA on the sample. I was suspicious so I had my own sample run and my DNA matched perfectly. By the time that happened the show was in final edit and that was it. I had signed a non-disclosure so I can only tell you now what happened.


Tom Kaye

Thanks Tom.  Easy come - easy go. 
 
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Offline andrade1812

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #934 on: November 15, 2020, 12:39:13 AM »
Cooper curse strikes again.
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #935 on: November 15, 2020, 03:03:46 AM »
Smile. I was thinking that exactly - time to call Geoffrey Gray, but I hear he's living in Mexico City.
 
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Offline RaoulDuke24

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #936 on: November 15, 2020, 07:12:00 AM »
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Ok...... For the Record. 
I am sorry to announce that the DNA profile extracted from the tie was mine. It was not 'like' me, it was a dead match on all the loci. So unfortunately for all of us there is no Cooper DNA at this point.

I was expecting the lab to come up with dozens of profiles but they only came up with one. I don't know if that was a failure of the lab, if the lab actually had no fragmented DNA capability or if there was no DNA on the sample. I was suspicious so I had my own sample run and my DNA matched perfectly. By the time that happened the show was in final edit and that was it. I had signed a non-disclosure so I can only tell you now what happened.


Tom Kaye

I really enjoyed the show and was super excited when it appeared that we had DB's DNA once and for all. I had a few questions about the DNA that I was going to ask here but after seeing this post, most of those questions are now tossed out the window.

One question that remains --- which sounds like you too are also wondering --- is how does the first attempt at getting DNA from the tie produce multiple partial samples and a second attempt produce just one complete (or near complete) sample? What happened to those partial samples? Were they "lifted away" from the tie during that first attempt so that DNA is no longer present on the tie? Why did that DNA not turn up in this second attempt?

It makes me question how infected the tie now is with various people's DNA given how many people have now handled it and how much value the tie even has anymore from a DNA standpoint.

Did you ever handle the tie with your bare hands? If not, any idea how your DNA could've gotten on there?
 

Offline DBfan57

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #937 on: November 16, 2020, 10:05:15 AM »
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Smile. I was thinking that exactly - time to call Geoffrey Gray, but I hear he's living in Mexico City.
So have you Bruce or anyone else here seen the Unsolved Mysteries show with Dennis Farina?  the one with Florence Shaffner shown and interviewed?  She does an updated composite sketch saying the originals are not accurate.  The one she does shows a much tougher looking DB Cooper.  And he acts a a bit tougher according to her than portrayed in other shows?  I wonder why that sketch is not used?  First time I believe I saw it?  And like others one of the investigators speculates that he may have had enough to survive if he only had a knife and a cigarette lighter to start a fire.  We know he had both.
 

Offline georger

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #938 on: November 16, 2020, 01:39:12 PM »
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Ok...... For the Record. 
I am sorry to announce that the DNA profile extracted from the tie was mine. It was not 'like' me, it was a dead match on all the loci. So unfortunately for all of us there is no Cooper DNA at this point.

I was expecting the lab to come up with dozens of profiles but they only came up with one. I don't know if that was a failure of the lab, if the lab actually had no fragmented DNA capability or if there was no DNA on the sample. I was suspicious so I had my own sample run and my DNA matched perfectly. By the time that happened the show was in final edit and that was it. I had signed a non-disclosure so I can only tell you now what happened.


Tom Kaye

I really enjoyed the show and was super excited when it appeared that we had DB's DNA once and for all. I had a few questions about the DNA that I was going to ask here but after seeing this post, most of those questions are now tossed out the window.

One question that remains --- which sounds like you too are also wondering --- is how does the first attempt at getting DNA from the tie produce multiple partial samples and a second attempt produce just one complete (or near complete) sample? What happened to those partial samples? Were they "lifted away" from the tie during that first attempt so that DNA is no longer present on the tie? Why did that DNA not turn up in this second attempt?

It makes me question how infected the tie now is with various people's DNA given how many people have now handled it and how much value the tie even has anymore from a DNA standpoint.

Did you ever handle the tie with your bare hands? If not, any idea how your DNA could've gotten on there?

The collection cell:  something Tom handled, made and assembled?    The vacuum lines and nozzle ?  Contamination somewhere.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 01:43:14 PM by georger »
 

Offline RaoulDuke24

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #939 on: November 16, 2020, 02:00:22 PM »
Was there ever an attempt to extract DNA from the cut shroud lines? Probably a long shot, but was it ever tried?
 
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Offline georger

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #940 on: November 16, 2020, 02:38:34 PM »
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Was there ever an attempt to extract DNA from the cut shroud lines? Probably a long shot, but was it ever tried?

All physical evidence in this case has been handled so many times by many people - its a forensic nightmare.
 

Offline RaoulDuke24

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #941 on: November 16, 2020, 03:31:27 PM »
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Was there ever an attempt to extract DNA from the cut shroud lines? Probably a long shot, but was it ever tried?

All physical evidence in this case has been handled so many times by many people - its a forensic nightmare.

That was my guess. Who knows how many different people touched those shroud lines by the time DNA testing was even a thing.

With the cigarette butts gone, the drink glasses mixed up and gone, the hair samples gone(?), the tie coming up short and the shroud lines likely being a DNA mess, the likelihood of ever getting some legitimate DNA looks bleak. Maybe if the briefcase ever turns up in the woods somewhere there will be some preserved DNA. Might be the last shot at it barring some huge breakthrough with the tie (which we were led to believe that we had on Saturday night).
 

Offline DBfan57

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #942 on: November 16, 2020, 04:04:34 PM »
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Was there ever an attempt to extract DNA from the cut shroud lines? Probably a long shot, but was it ever tried?

All physical evidence in this case has been handled so many times by many people - its a forensic nightmare.

Have you heard of this Eric Ulis?  On History channel?  Im watching part one.  That is all I can find so far.  He of course says the key is the bump made with the stairs hitting the plane after he jumped.  They have to have an accurate pinpoint of where he jumped.  Then you do another search and hope.  The cigarette butts could have been gold but they could not have known that in 71 obviously.  Not sure how good their data is on the air speed and such.  They are pretty sure 8:12 or so was the jump time. Its a longshot to say the least. Unless someone actually comes forward with some credible evidence and not a pack of lies.

That was my guess. Who knows how many different people touched those shroud lines by the time DNA testing was even a thing.

With the cigarette butts gone, the drink glasses mixed up and gone, the hair samples gone(?), the tie coming up short and the shroud lines likely being a DNA mess, the likelihood of ever getting some legitimate DNA looks bleak. Maybe if the briefcase ever turns up in the woods somewhere there will be some preserved DNA. Might be the last shot at it barring some huge breakthrough with the tie (which we were led to believe that we had on Saturday night).
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #943 on: November 16, 2020, 04:13:58 PM »
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So have you Bruce or anyone else here seen the Unsolved Mysteries show with Dennis Farina?  the one with Florence Shaffner shown and interviewed?  She does an updated composite sketch saying the originals are not accurate.  The one she does shows a much tougher looking DB Cooper.  And he acts a a bit tougher according to her than portrayed in other shows?  I wonder why that sketch is not used?  First time I believe I saw it?  And like others one of the investigators speculates that he may have had enough to survive if he only had a knife and a cigarette lighter to start a fire.  We know he had both.


I have no definitive answer on why the FBI did not take Flo' 1980-era sketch more seriously. But we can ascertain some plausible reasons based on what we do know.

First, Flo became increasingly less reliable in the Bureau's eyes due to her "emotionality." Galen Cook says he talked with Larry Carr and Cutis Eng extensively on this subject, and that is the perspective he got from those two agents.

Secondly, the FBI was losing confidence in all of the witnesses by the mid-1970s, according to some of the 302s we've been reading recently.

Lastly, Tina and Bill's input became more important over time because they had spent so much more time with DBC than anyone else.
 

Offline DBfan57

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Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Reply #944 on: November 16, 2020, 04:29:12 PM »
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So have you Bruce or anyone else here seen the Unsolved Mysteries show with Dennis Farina?  the one with Florence Shaffner shown and interviewed?  She does an updated composite sketch saying the originals are not accurate.  The one she does shows a much tougher looking DB Cooper.  And he acts a a bit tougher according to her than portrayed in other shows?  I wonder why that sketch is not used?  First time I believe I saw it?  And like others one of the investigators speculates that he may have had enough to survive if he only had a knife and a cigarette lighter to start a fire.  We know he had both.


I have no definitive answer on why the FBI did not take Flo' 1980-era sketch more seriously. But we can ascertain some plausible reasons based on what we do know.

First, Flo became increasingly less reliable in the Bureau's eyes due to her "emotionality." Galen Cook says he talked with Larry Carr and Cutis Eng extensively on this subject, and that is the perspective he got from those two agents.

Secondly, the FBI was losing confidence in all of the witnesses by the mid-1970s, according to some of the 302s we've been reading recently.

Lastly, Tina and Bill's input became more important over time because they had spent so much more time with DBC than anyone else.
Thanks for that Bruce.  Also, while you are around, do you know this guy Uris on the History channel that is doing his own investigation and is of course putting his faith in pinpointing the time of the jump and location as exact as possible? Only one episode is out that I know of?  I used to work with metal detectors for the County where I worked.  Have they gone over the regions with metal detectors?  In case he buried things?  Like the fake bomb?  Looking forward to the show on Nov 24 or 25, whenever it is on HBO