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61
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by Chaucer on September 22, 2020, 12:34:17 PM »
Fair points. Let me try to counter them:

1. It's possible that the packets remained in the bag until very shortly after arriving at Tena Bar. Between the bag deteriorating, the flooding, etc., I don't think it impossible. Also, the packets were not buried deeply in the sand. Ingram said he merely swept his over over the sand for the firepit.

2. Hayden and Tomahawk are actually right beneath the FBI flight path which takes the planes virtually over the I-5 bridge. Also, I am assuming a no pull which would result in no drift - only forward throw from when he jumped.

3. The west side of Hayden is no populated and undeveloped. Marine Park would also be virtually empty in the winter. The corpse could have landed in brush or undergrowth, been covered in snow, or both. My point is that were not talking downtown Portland.

4. It's possible the drifting could have occurred at night. Given the average current speed of that part of the Columbia, it would have taken between 12 and 18 hours for it to drift to Tena Bar. Flooding would have made the current even faster. Assuming the bag had opened to free the three bundles, that means that the rest of the money would have become free and ended up on the bottom of the river along with the body.

5. The timing of the jump has always been a bit of a question mark. The best we can tell is that it happened somewhere between 8:10 and 8:15. Also, as you yourself have pointed out, the speed of the flight seems to fluctuate. Thus, the flight could have been farther along the flight path than thought.

6. This I have no answer for, just guesses. I would like to know how thoroughly the FBI searched missing persons. Then you take a guy like Dick Lepsy who never would have been accounted for. There could be explanations for this.

I appreciate your thoughts, Eric. I'd like to hear more give and take on this from you and others.
62
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by Robert99 on September 22, 2020, 12:23:47 PM »
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FBI FOIA:  D.B. Cooper file page No. 004 of Part 44 - lab report four bills crystal ingram

FBI Lab Report, Washington re- specimens Q60-63 submitted for analysis - these are the four additional bills Crystal Ingram turned in late after the Ingrams had submitted their bills earlier.

Note Serial Numbers of these four bills, and sand type comparison of these bills with the Ingram bills submitted earlier ...

Georger,

Also note that the FBI laboratory received those bills on February 3, 1980 which was about 9 days before the money was found at Tina Bar.  Would you care to explain your statements above?
63
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by EU on September 22, 2020, 12:09:14 PM »
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Here's another thought - rather than looking at or close to Tena Bar, perhaps Cooper and the money landed further south. Say, on Hayden Island, Tomahawk Island or somewhere along the shore there. The body/money remained unseen on land but near the water. The flooding in May/ June of the following year rose enough to dislodge the remains with the money attached and it floated down to Tena Bar.

This theory is similar to R99, but with a no-pull closer to the FBI flight path.

My question is, what are the flood levels along that area of the Columbia? Perhaps they are lower than that of Tena Bar.

To preempt any dismissal of this theory on the basis of "debris from that part of the Columbia doesn't end up on Tena Bar", I'll point out that there are any number of  methods something like a body/money bag could have ended up there. The Columbia is a powerful girl with currents, tides, winds, and large ships all combining to create unpredictable steering of debris.

Thoughts?

This type of theory presents an array of major issues.

1) I believe it is impossible for three packets to stay together and self-bury.

2) Both Hayden and Tomahawk are west of the FBI Flight Path which means DBC jumping from 10,000 feet up would have to drift into the wind anywhere from 1 to 6 miles which strikes me as not possible.

3) This area is very populated and has a significant amount of commercial and private traffic on both land and sea--how does a rotting corpse go unrecognized?

4) This would necessitate everything drifting unnoticed a good 10 miles before it reaches Tena Bar. Then apparently everything but the three packets would have to drift another 100 miles out to sea completely unnoticed.

5) DBC jumping near PDX and landing in the Columbia creates a major timing problem for the pressure bump which occurred at 8:12.

6) DBC getting killed apparently went forever unnoticed. No missing persons reports point to DBC. No unpaid mortgage, utilities, car payments, anything anywhere that triggered interest in someone now missing.

Simply put, I think it is impossible.
64
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by Chaucer on September 22, 2020, 11:36:23 AM »
Here's another thought - rather than looking at or close to Tena Bar, perhaps Cooper and the money landed further south. Say, on Hayden Island, Tomahawk Island or somewhere along the shore there. The body/money remained unseen on land but near the water. The flooding in May/ June of the following year rose enough to dislodge the remains with the money attached and it floated down to Tena Bar.

This theory is similar to R99, but with a no-pull closer to the FBI flight path.

My question is, what are the flood levels along that area of the Columbia? Perhaps they are lower than that of Tena Bar.

To preempt any dismissal of this theory on the basis of "debris from that part of the Columbia doesn't end up on Tena Bar", I'll point out that there are any number of  methods something like a body/money bag could have ended up there. The Columbia is a powerful girl with currents, tides, winds, and large ships all combining to create unpredictable steering of debris.

Thoughts?
65
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by EU on September 22, 2020, 06:45:49 AM »
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I don't follow the reasoning of opening two of the same chutes for the same objective..


What choice does he have? He has to utilize a second chute.

After all, the pink parachute is completely separated (cut out and removed) from its container. How does he use that parachute...fold the money in the canopy and wrap the flat container around it? How does he secure it? Where does he get more shroud lines? Does he remove all the shroud lines first, then set them aside and wrap it all up?

It's much easier to use the dummy reserve which is still entirely intact and use the pink parachute to cut shroud lines from as needed.
66
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by Shutter on September 22, 2020, 06:31:27 AM »
That's a little different to what he said days after the hijacking. 2010 is 39 years after the fact. I think we went through this a while back with the reference to "white material".... can this quote be found?

Her first interview she said he stated "he would be forced to use one of the chutes to rewarap the money"

Her second interview states she came back with the last chute and he had one open and cutting lines. also stated he was angry about the knapsack. after trying to put the money in the unfolded chute he decided to leave it in the canvas bag. both interviews state pink canopy and cord.. nothing white except the money bag.

The FBI stating the money could be in the canopy is after the jump or while he was on the ground. could of used the chute he landed with.

I don't follow the reasoning of opening two of the same chutes for the same objective..

Dudeman, what would sewing the folds of the chute mean or what is the folds of a chute?
67
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by EU on September 22, 2020, 05:49:14 AM »
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Can you provide the document surrounding the removal of panels on the canopy..

Also, I don't see how one could link giving money out of the bag to benefit the same elsewhere?

It appears everything you state could of been achieved with the opening of one front chute...he was seen trying to fit it into the container and I believe the canopy..

Musika Farnsworth quotes Cossey in her 2010 USPA article as follows:

Cossey explained, “For the dummy rig, I cut the reserve in half and sewed the panels together so that when the student threw it out, I could just fold it up and put it back in the container in half the time. That reserve was half the density of a regular reserve, and it was obvious to anyone with experience that it wasn’t a normal reserve.”

I believe Linn Emerick mentions the "soft to the touch" aspect of the dummy too.

I'm not certain I understand the rest of your comments. My point is that according to Tina, Cooper had the money bag tied shut--presumably with the money inside--by the time she brought the fourth parachute onboard. But later she references seeing him attempting to wrap the ransom in a "white material," as well as one of the reserves.

Obviously in order for these comments and recollections to be accurate, Cooper had to have removed some of the money from the bank bag and utilized the dummy reserve to secure those removed packets. Also, the FBI files discuss the authorities telling hunters to look for money wrapped up in a parachute canopy while hunting.

All of this is critical to my theory about how three packets of twenties were left behind on Tena Bar--in other words, separated from the rest of the ransom. This could have only happened if the packets were buried, which clearly suggests that DB Cooper survived and likely landed within walking distance of Tena Bar.
68
DB Cooper / Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Last post by georger on September 22, 2020, 12:40:37 AM »
Tom's tie results may have redefined the Cooper suspect list ... of course Tom's work did not happen until 40 years after the hijacking and 1000s of suspects already processed... there are no proposed suspects who could remotely pass given today's evidence, or explain the particles found on Tom's tie! 

When Tom released his tie particle list years ago someone asked me if I knew of any suspects who fit Tom's tie results. My immediate answer was: I dont know of any; ask Tom. Since that time the FBI has released thousands of FBI files, full of suspect accounts which anyone can examine.

Keep in mind, prior to Tom's work the FBI had no reason to profile their suspects with Tom's lab results in mind. It turns out now the FBI had examined several people with ties to the nuclear industry, for example! This is only coming to light now as FBI FOIA files are examined.   

I will post more about this later but here is a clipping from one report involving a suspect being examined in March of 1980. This suspect had ties to the nuclear industry. At the time the FBI would have had no reason to give this suspect special attention!

Why is the FBI looking at people in the nuclear industry at all, in 1980 ? Is this fortuitous - coincidence ?

The fact is, the FBI looked at a number of people who had unique vitas/qualifications compared to the general population. None of the people generally suggested in Cooper forums even begins to match unique and highly qualified people the FBI considered and eliminated, based on the criteria the FBI had at the time!  ;)

Example: could McCoy or Coffelt's possessions have produced and matched the particles Tom found on the Cooper tie !? Not likely. Assume for a moment Cooper did not buy his tie at Goodwill but that it was his personal property! Did the FBI brush shoulders with the real Cooper and eliminated him for lack of proper evidence?

More later - - -       
69
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by georger on September 22, 2020, 12:08:13 AM »
FBI FOIA:  D.B. Cooper file page No. 004 of Part 44 - lab report four bills crystal ingram

FBI Lab Report, Washington re- specimens Q60-63 submitted for analysis - these are the four additional bills Crystal Ingram turned in late after the Ingrams had submitted their bills earlier.

Note Serial Numbers of these four bills, and sand type comparison of these bills with the Ingram bills submitted earlier ...   
70
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by Shutter on September 21, 2020, 09:41:07 PM »
Can you provide the document surrounding the removal of panels on the canopy..

Also, I don't see how one could link giving money out of the bag to benefit the same elsewhere?

It appears everything you state could of been achieved with the opening of one front chute...he was seen trying to fit it into the container and I believe the canopy..
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