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21
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by Robert99 on February 21, 2020, 12:55:39 AM »
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What is a tide line?

One of the more fascinating aspect of Cooper World is the fact that certain terms or circumstances that I, or others, take for granted are not accepted by others. Such is the case with the term "tide line."

To me, a tide line is a distinct line of detritus on a beach that runs parallel to the prevailing water line. Today, I realized that my experience in my former life of being a commercial beachcleaner in New York - and a kid who lived 11 miles from the water and was at the beach at least 2-3 times a week - has shaped what I consider to be a real tide line.

What I have observed at T-Bar - with Robert and many others over the years - is perhaps best described as a "debris line." These deposits are linear for sure, but only run about 10-50 feet, and have always appeared to me as the wash-up of river debris - twigs, junk, grassy stuff, flotables, etc. - from the highest level of water volume that day (or night). In fact, most days that I have been on the Columbia, in particular T-Bar, I have not seen any organized debris line of any kind - tidal or otherwise.

What I do see is that, in general, the debris actually clumps around catchment areas, such as tree and bushes, upended stumps and roots, wing dams, rocks, etc.

Bruce, At Tina Bar there is a smooth and hard packed area that the waves and tides wash on a daily basis.  This area extends from about 5 to 10 feet from the lowest level of the water depending on the slope of the beach.  Then the beach immediately transitions into a rough surface of dry and loose sand which is very difficult to walk in.  That transition point is what I call the tide line.  And I am sure that you have seen it and walked on it.

Where does YOUR tide line fall on this 1980 photo?  Lines A - D. 

*Anyone in the whole Universe may answer!

Other things being equal, the tide line would be the eastern edge of the dark area immediately adjacent to the water.

How does that relate to A-D ?  There is a reason for asking this ... has to do with diatom ecology and species distribution vs tidal zones..

** A new regional dataset comprising 425 intertidal diatom taxa from 175 samples from 11 ecologically diverse Oregon and Washington estuaries illustrates the importance of compiling a large modern dataset from a range of sites. Cluster analyses and detrended correspondence analysis of the diatom assemblages identify distinct vertical zones within supratidal, intertidal and subtidal environments at six of the 11 study sites, but the abundance of some of the most common species varies widely among and within sites. Canonical correspondence analysis of the regional dataset shows relationships between diatom species and tidal exposure, salinity and substratum (grain size and organic content). Correspondence analyses of local datasets show higher values of explained variation than the analysis of the combined regional dataset. Our results emphasize that studies of the autecology of diatom species require many samples from a range of modern environments to adequately characterize species-environment relationships.    You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I don't have the slightest idea what the lines have to do with your question.
22
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by georger on February 21, 2020, 12:48:11 AM »
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What is a tide line?

One of the more fascinating aspect of Cooper World is the fact that certain terms or circumstances that I, or others, take for granted are not accepted by others. Such is the case with the term "tide line."

To me, a tide line is a distinct line of detritus on a beach that runs parallel to the prevailing water line. Today, I realized that my experience in my former life of being a commercial beachcleaner in New York - and a kid who lived 11 miles from the water and was at the beach at least 2-3 times a week - has shaped what I consider to be a real tide line.

What I have observed at T-Bar - with Robert and many others over the years - is perhaps best described as a "debris line." These deposits are linear for sure, but only run about 10-50 feet, and have always appeared to me as the wash-up of river debris - twigs, junk, grassy stuff, flotables, etc. - from the highest level of water volume that day (or night). In fact, most days that I have been on the Columbia, in particular T-Bar, I have not seen any organized debris line of any kind - tidal or otherwise.

What I do see is that, in general, the debris actually clumps around catchment areas, such as tree and bushes, upended stumps and roots, wing dams, rocks, etc.

Bruce, At Tina Bar there is a smooth and hard packed area that the waves and tides wash on a daily basis.  This area extends from about 5 to 10 feet from the lowest level of the water depending on the slope of the beach.  Then the beach immediately transitions into a rough surface of dry and loose sand which is very difficult to walk in.  That transition point is what I call the tide line.  And I am sure that you have seen it and walked on it.

Where does YOUR tide line fall on this 1980 photo?  Lines A - D. 

*Anyone in the whole Universe may answer!

Other things being equal, the tide line would be the eastern edge of the dark area immediately adjacent to the water.

How does that relate to A-D ?  There is a reason for asking this ... has to do with diatom ecology and species distribution vs tidal zones..

** A new regional dataset comprising 425 intertidal diatom taxa from 175 samples from 11 ecologically diverse Oregon and Washington estuaries illustrates the importance of compiling a large modern dataset from a range of sites. Cluster analyses and detrended correspondence analysis of the diatom assemblages identify distinct vertical zones within supratidal, intertidal and subtidal environments at six of the 11 study sites, but the abundance of some of the most common species varies widely among and within sites. Canonical correspondence analysis of the regional dataset shows relationships between diatom species and tidal exposure, salinity and substratum (grain size and organic content). Correspondence analyses of local datasets show higher values of explained variation than the analysis of the combined regional dataset. Our results emphasize that studies of the autecology of diatom species require many samples from a range of modern environments to adequately characterize species-environment relationships.    You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
23
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by Robert99 on February 21, 2020, 12:43:28 AM »
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What is a tide line?

One of the more fascinating aspect of Cooper World is the fact that certain terms or circumstances that I, or others, take for granted are not accepted by others. Such is the case with the term "tide line."

To me, a tide line is a distinct line of detritus on a beach that runs parallel to the prevailing water line. Today, I realized that my experience in my former life of being a commercial beachcleaner in New York - and a kid who lived 11 miles from the water and was at the beach at least 2-3 times a week - has shaped what I consider to be a real tide line.

What I have observed at T-Bar - with Robert and many others over the years - is perhaps best described as a "debris line." These deposits are linear for sure, but only run about 10-50 feet, and have always appeared to me as the wash-up of river debris - twigs, junk, grassy stuff, flotables, etc. - from the highest level of water volume that day (or night). In fact, most days that I have been on the Columbia, in particular T-Bar, I have not seen any organized debris line of any kind - tidal or otherwise.

What I do see is that, in general, the debris actually clumps around catchment areas, such as tree and bushes, upended stumps and roots, wing dams, rocks, etc.

Bruce, At Tina Bar there is a smooth and hard packed area that the waves and tides wash on a daily basis.  This area extends from about 5 to 10 feet from the lowest level of the water depending on the slope of the beach.  Then the beach immediately transitions into a rough surface of dry and loose sand which is very difficult to walk in.  That transition point is what I call the tide line.  And I am sure that you have seen it and walked on it.

Where does YOUR tide line fall on this 1980 photo?  Lines A - D. 

*Anyone in the whole Universe may answer!

Other things being equal, the tide line would be the eastern edge of the dark area immediately adjacent to the water.
24
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by Robert99 on February 21, 2020, 12:39:20 AM »
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What is a tide line?

One of the more fascinating aspect of Cooper World is the fact that certain terms or circumstances that I, or others, take for granted are not accepted by others. Such is the case with the term "tide line."

To me, a tide line is a distinct line of detritus on a beach that runs parallel to the prevailing water line. Today, I realized that my experience in my former life of being a commercial beachcleaner in New York - and a kid who lived 11 miles from the water and was at the beach at least 2-3 times a week - has shaped what I consider to be a real tide line.

What I have observed at T-Bar - with Robert and many others over the years - is perhaps best described as a "debris line." These deposits are linear for sure, but only run about 10-50 feet, and have always appeared to me as the wash-up of river debris - twigs, junk, grassy stuff, flotables, etc. - from the highest level of water volume that day (or night). In fact, most days that I have been on the Columbia, in particular T-Bar, I have not seen any organized debris line of any kind - tidal or otherwise.

What I do see is that, in general, the debris actually clumps around catchment areas, such as tree and bushes, upended stumps and roots, wing dams, rocks, etc.

Bruce, At Tina Bar there is a smooth and hard packed area that the waves and tides wash on a daily basis.  This area extends from about 5 to 10 feet from the lowest level of the water depending on the slope of the beach.  Then the beach immediately transitions into a rough surface of dry and loose sand which is very difficult to walk in.  That transition point is what I call the tide line.  And I am sure that you have seen it and walked on it.

Above you say: "And the daily tidal variation is between one and two feet at Tina Bar."

Please translate this into an actual line or zone on the excavation photo ... people can see.

Where does one and two feet fall in the space A-D ?

Sooner or later all of these factoids, numbers, and opinions you keep tossing out have to translate into something a common ordinary person can understand, see, and evaluate!

Georger, as you would know if you bothered to visit Tina Bar at least one time, it does not now look anything like that picture which was taken in mid-February 1980.  But even you should be able to tell from that picture that most of the digging was done well away from the tide line.

I am not aware of having tossed out any "factoids, numbers, and opinions" that the average village idiot couldn't understand.  As you apparently haven't noticed, I have gone out of my way to explain things in my posts.  If you can't comprehend what I am posting, then I think it is obvious why you want to hide in the bushes.

The remark about the daily tidal variation was taken from a US Topographical Map of the Tina Bar area.  But I doubt that you will accept that as being valid.

25
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by georger on February 21, 2020, 12:21:37 AM »
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What is a tide line?

One of the more fascinating aspect of Cooper World is the fact that certain terms or circumstances that I, or others, take for granted are not accepted by others. Such is the case with the term "tide line."

To me, a tide line is a distinct line of detritus on a beach that runs parallel to the prevailing water line. Today, I realized that my experience in my former life of being a commercial beachcleaner in New York - and a kid who lived 11 miles from the water and was at the beach at least 2-3 times a week - has shaped what I consider to be a real tide line.

What I have observed at T-Bar - with Robert and many others over the years - is perhaps best described as a "debris line." These deposits are linear for sure, but only run about 10-50 feet, and have always appeared to me as the wash-up of river debris - twigs, junk, grassy stuff, flotables, etc. - from the highest level of water volume that day (or night). In fact, most days that I have been on the Columbia, in particular T-Bar, I have not seen any organized debris line of any kind - tidal or otherwise.

What I do see is that, in general, the debris actually clumps around catchment areas, such as tree and bushes, upended stumps and roots, wing dams, rocks, etc.

Bruce, At Tina Bar there is a smooth and hard packed area that the waves and tides wash on a daily basis.  This area extends from about 5 to 10 feet from the lowest level of the water depending on the slope of the beach.  Then the beach immediately transitions into a rough surface of dry and loose sand which is very difficult to walk in.  That transition point is what I call the tide line.  And I am sure that you have seen it and walked on it.

Where does YOUR tide line fall on this 1980 photo?  Lines A - D. 

*Anyone in the whole Universe may answer! 
26
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by georger on February 20, 2020, 11:51:20 PM »
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What is a tide line?

One of the more fascinating aspect of Cooper World is the fact that certain terms or circumstances that I, or others, take for granted are not accepted by others. Such is the case with the term "tide line."

To me, a tide line is a distinct line of detritus on a beach that runs parallel to the prevailing water line. Today, I realized that my experience in my former life of being a commercial beachcleaner in New York - and a kid who lived 11 miles from the water and was at the beach at least 2-3 times a week - has shaped what I consider to be a real tide line.

What I have observed at T-Bar - with Robert and many others over the years - is perhaps best described as a "debris line." These deposits are linear for sure, but only run about 10-50 feet, and have always appeared to me as the wash-up of river debris - twigs, junk, grassy stuff, flotables, etc. - from the highest level of water volume that day (or night). In fact, most days that I have been on the Columbia, in particular T-Bar, I have not seen any organized debris line of any kind - tidal or otherwise.

What I do see is that, in general, the debris actually clumps around catchment areas, such as tree and bushes, upended stumps and roots, wing dams, rocks, etc.

Bruce, At Tina Bar there is a smooth and hard packed area that the waves and tides wash on a daily basis.  This area extends from about 5 to 10 feet from the lowest level of the water depending on the slope of the beach.  Then the beach immediately transitions into a rough surface of dry and loose sand which is very difficult to walk in.  That transition point is what I call the tide line.  And I am sure that you have seen it and walked on it.

Above you say: "And the daily tidal variation is between one and two feet at Tina Bar."

Please translate this into an actual line or zone on the excavation photo ... people can see.

Where does one and two feet fall in the space A-D ?

Sooner or later all of these factoids, numbers, and opinions you keep tossing out have to translate into something a common ordinary person can understand, see, and evaluate!

27
DB Cooper / Re: New DB Cooper Show With Members Of This Forum
« Last post by Shutter on February 20, 2020, 10:29:17 PM »
Lets keep all the gossiping to the DZ...I'm sure everyone seen the post either here or there so I see no need to keep it as record..

Shutter
28
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by Robert99 on February 20, 2020, 09:29:31 PM »
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What is a tide line?

One of the more fascinating aspect of Cooper World is the fact that certain terms or circumstances that I, or others, take for granted are not accepted by others. Such is the case with the term "tide line."

To me, a tide line is a distinct line of detritus on a beach that runs parallel to the prevailing water line. Today, I realized that my experience in my former life of being a commercial beachcleaner in New York - and a kid who lived 11 miles from the water and was at the beach at least 2-3 times a week - has shaped what I consider to be a real tide line.

What I have observed at T-Bar - with Robert and many others over the years - is perhaps best described as a "debris line." These deposits are linear for sure, but only run about 10-50 feet, and have always appeared to me as the wash-up of river debris - twigs, junk, grassy stuff, flotables, etc. - from the highest level of water volume that day (or night). In fact, most days that I have been on the Columbia, in particular T-Bar, I have not seen any organized debris line of any kind - tidal or otherwise.

What I do see is that, in general, the debris actually clumps around catchment areas, such as tree and bushes, upended stumps and roots, wing dams, rocks, etc.

Bruce, At Tina Bar there is a smooth and hard packed area that the waves and tides wash on a daily basis.  This area extends from about 5 to 10 feet from the lowest level of the water depending on the slope of the beach.  Then the beach immediately transitions into a rough surface of dry and loose sand which is very difficult to walk in.  That transition point is what I call the tide line.  And I am sure that you have seen it and walked on it.
29
DB Cooper / Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Last post by Robert99 on February 20, 2020, 09:18:08 PM »
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Recent article about partial DNA and how the FBI has rules against releasing the information if it can be used to target individuals.  They won't release it for a murder case.

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I think the problem here is that the FBI obtained the relevant information in an anonymous test of some kind that promised the participants that their identities would never be revealed.
30
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by Shutter on February 20, 2020, 07:16:45 PM »
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Are the bands buried or exposed on the surface or both? If buried, how deep? Very interesting Shut, keep us posted. Thanks.

They are buried. how deep is unknown. the project was started by Galen Cook. bundled money is buried...
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