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1
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by georger on Today at 03:15:53 AM »
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Countering someone's theory while providing something of actual substance is one thing. But the dumb ass shit that guy posts on a daily basis contributes absolutely nothing to the discussion. He is childish and immature and strikes me as a bitter and lonely old man. It's like when my wife and I are having an important discussion and our 4-year-old is interrupting us because she wants us to watch her balance on one leg. All he does is mock what everyone else says while never actually saying anything of his own. There's a proper way to call out B.S. And then there's Georger's way. He is the very definition of an internet troll. It's such a tired act. It's gone on for years. Frankly, it's a troubling pattern of behavior and I think the guy has some serious issues he probably needs to address. 

If he disagrees with something I put forward, great. Let's engage in an adult, civilized dialogue. But he is clearly not capable of that. Instead, he resorts to name calling, mockery and bizarre, confusing rants that sound like the town drunk. Most of all, his blatant disrespect of so many members here is just flat-out unacceptable and I'm so tired of seeing it day in and day out. For him to call himself an "academic" is laughable. He may be an academic on paper, but he acts like a freaking kindergartner. It's sad, because I bet he actually has a lot that he could contribute. Unfortunately, I've never seen it.

Yet again, another very well written and spot-on assessment by RD24.

I cannot recount the number of times I have put forward theories and investigative results only to be subjected to what are best-described as the rambling musings of a mad-man that make absolutely no sense and are full of condensation and childish bullying.

As for me, I can handle GEORGER and just consider the guy a world-class dick. However, the problem is that there are many others who sit on the sidelines unwilling to contribute because they don't want to be subjected to GEORGER's harassment--indeed, I have heard from many of them privately. How does this stifling of opposing--and original--thought advance the case?

I value an intelligent and robust discussion. I do not enjoy, or have to tolerate, bullshit.

No you dont. You wont even answer basic questions put to you.  Maybe these 'many others who sit on the sidelines unwilling to contribute' can't get by you who want to dominate the whole discussion - the whole stage?

I dont think you like sharing or intend to share any stage with anyone. It's that Colbert syndrome I was talking about. I came to the conclusion a long time ago after you first started - this guy is either a genius or he is crazy. To this day I don't know. I just try to stay out of your way. I figure at some point your train with either land somewhere people can actually deal with for five minutes or your train will crash and then who knows what happens next? It has nothing to do with academics. It's just common horse sense. Good luck. 

These sideline issues contribute nothing to the Cooper case.  :nono:
2
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by georger on Today at 02:44:36 AM »
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Wrapped tightly inside the money bag, the interior cash would have been protected from the elements.

In a no-pull situation, Cooper would have impacted at a speed of about 180 MPH.  At that speed, after impact the money would not be as tightly wrapped as you might think.
Lots of variables there:

The angle he hit
Whether he hit water or land
How securely fastened the bag was

Also, you’re assuming a no-pull when it’s possible he did deeply the chute only to drown after landing in the water.

At 180 MPH, the "angle" doesn't make much difference.  Whether het hit water or land doesn't make much difference either.

How securely the money bag was fastened does make a difference.  But if he landed in the water, how did the money bag get several feet above the tide line for that period of time?

If he deployed and then landed in the Columbia and drowned, he probably would have gone downstream past Tina Bar within a few hours at most.  So by daybreak, he would be downstream of Tina Bar and so would the money bag.  And both would probably be on the west side of the Columbia when they went by Tina Bar.
I’d be interested in seeing your data on th those two points - particularly as to the currents along that area of the Colombia.

Chaucer, what are your specific questions?
Specifically, your data and evidence as it relates to the currents in that part of the Columbia. You seem quite sure that debris only goes around the west side of Caterpillar Island and any debris south of that could never ever end up on Tena Bar. I’d like your source on that.

I’m not challenging you. I’m just curious.

Re: georger

Some of you act like entitled millennials who have never been told you’re wrong ever in your life. Georger might be indelicate at times, but at least he is willing to call out BS when he smells it. Some of you need to grow up and accept the fact that if you are going to share a theory, you might be told it’s wrong and/or stupid. It’s part of the deal.

Oh, my!  Chaucer, I believe that you have described yourself as an academic and I think Georger views himself as one as well.  As academics, I suspect that neither of you like to be told that you are full of shit.  Nevertheless, I will do so when the situation warrants it.  And I also suspect that both of you are much more likely to have an "entitled millennial" viewpoint that myself.  As you point out, it's part of the deal.

To respond to your original question, which is basically why does debris end up on the west side of the Columbia when making the turn to the north, we need to understand some very fundamental physics. 

How does the river turn to the north in the first place?  Basically, the river turns to the north because the west bank turns to the north.  It is as simple as that.  The river water just doesn't hang a right turn because it wants to.  It is forced to turn because it can't go further west.  And it can't just stop in its tracks since it is moving downhill.  So the river water follows the line of least resistance and goes north.

The debris is going to go with the flow and the fastest flow will be on the west side of the Columbia.  The 40 foot deep shipping channel is on the west side of the Columbia and that means that the largest volume of the river water is on the west side.  It would take some unusual activity for the debris to move from the west side of the Columbia to Tina Bar in the relatively short distance from the turn north to Tina Bar.

And so it goes. 
 

I think your original statement was 'no debris collects at Tina Bar' - ' all of the debris collects on the west side'. These two statements you made are WHY Chaucer asked his question! Because in the first place debris does collect, ie float up on, Tina Bar. That's just a fact. Can you present a photo showing ALL OF THE DEBRIS collecting on the west side but no debris collecting on the east side (slower current). I would like to see documentation of your statement with my own eyes.

Then you say something really weird! Quote  "It would take some unusual activity for the debris to move from the west side of the Columbia to Tina Bar" . Who said anything about debris moving from the west side of the river to the east side? Chaucer didnt say that. I didnt say that. What does 'debris moving from the west side of the river to the east side' got to do with ANYTHING!?  Chaucer didnt say that or bring that up as a serious issue, so far as I know. THE ISSUE IS: HOW DO THINGS GET ON TINA BAR FROM THE RIVER? Then you say it basically can't happen ........... but once again that is why Chaucer asked his question. I dont recall anyone in the history of Cooper discussions that has ever said 'debris cannot collect on the east side of the river, which is where Tina Bar is! Or "It would take some unusual activity for the debris to move from the west side of the Columbia to Tina Bar". That isn't an issue. I am confused by your re-directions ?

And your hydrology misses a basic fact!

True the v of current is fastest on the west side of the river. Everyone knows that. So what!?  As the river makes it turn (see map attached) the river widens creating a lagoon! In that lagoon sits what? Caterpillar Island. And immediately above Caterpillar Island is what?  Tina Bar sticks out directly into the oncoming flow of the river just north of Cat Island. The water is slower on the east side, I will give you that, but the section of the river that has just flowed by Cat Island is now right up against the southern land mass of Tina Bar ... so its no wonder debris washes up on Tina Bar .. the river and the southern end of Tina Bar literally collide! Anything in the river flowing by Cat Island can wash directly up on to Tina Bar at that point, and it does. And we havent even mentioned debris brought up by tides. 

So Robert, your description of debris flowing in the whole river, is incomplete as you have given it! During floods especially, there is debris flowing in the whole river, not just on the west side as you describe it. And the Fazios have described how debris flows up on to their sandbar starting at the southern end of T-Bar etc and during tides. One of the Fazios remarked to Dorwin that he thought the Ingram find had arrived with the last high tide and he pointed to the tide line. All of this is old news.

As for your other extraneous comments about (academics etc) are just "gobblewobble".
   
3
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by EU on August 13, 2020, 09:02:53 PM »
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Countering someone's theory while providing something of actual substance is one thing. But the dumb ass shit that guy posts on a daily basis contributes absolutely nothing to the discussion. He is childish and immature and strikes me as a bitter and lonely old man. It's like when my wife and I are having an important discussion and our 4-year-old is interrupting us because she wants us to watch her balance on one leg. All he does is mock what everyone else says while never actually saying anything of his own. There's a proper way to call out B.S. And then there's Georger's way. He is the very definition of an internet troll. It's such a tired act. It's gone on for years. Frankly, it's a troubling pattern of behavior and I think the guy has some serious issues he probably needs to address. 

If he disagrees with something I put forward, great. Let's engage in an adult, civilized dialogue. But he is clearly not capable of that. Instead, he resorts to name calling, mockery and bizarre, confusing rants that sound like the town drunk. Most of all, his blatant disrespect of so many members here is just flat-out unacceptable and I'm so tired of seeing it day in and day out. For him to call himself an "academic" is laughable. He may be an academic on paper, but he acts like a freaking kindergartner. It's sad, because I bet he actually has a lot that he could contribute. Unfortunately, I've never seen it.

Yet again, another very well written and spot-on assessment by RD24.

I cannot recount the number of times I have put forward theories and investigative results only to be subjected to what are best-described as the rambling musings of a mad-man that make absolutely no sense and are full of condensation and childish bullying.

As for me, I can handle GEORGER and just consider the guy a world-class dick. However, the problem is that there are many others who sit on the sidelines unwilling to contribute because they don't want to be subjected to GEORGER's harassment--indeed, I have heard from many of them privately. How does this stifling of opposing--and original--thought advance the case?

I value an intelligent and robust discussion. I do not enjoy, or have to tolerate, bullshit.
4
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by RaoulDuke24 on August 13, 2020, 08:33:53 PM »
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Wrapped tightly inside the money bag, the interior cash would have been protected from the elements.

In a no-pull situation, Cooper would have impacted at a speed of about 180 MPH.  At that speed, after impact the money would not be as tightly wrapped as you might think.
Lots of variables there:

The angle he hit
Whether he hit water or land
How securely fastened the bag was

Also, you’re assuming a no-pull when it’s possible he did deeply the chute only to drown after landing in the water.

At 180 MPH, the "angle" doesn't make much difference.  Whether het hit water or land doesn't make much difference either.

How securely the money bag was fastened does make a difference.  But if he landed in the water, how did the money bag get several feet above the tide line for that period of time?

If he deployed and then landed in the Columbia and drowned, he probably would have gone downstream past Tina Bar within a few hours at most.  So by daybreak, he would be downstream of Tina Bar and so would the money bag.  And both would probably be on the west side of the Columbia when they went by Tina Bar.
I’d be interested in seeing your data on th those two points - particularly as to the currents along that area of the Colombia.

Chaucer, what are your specific questions?
Specifically, your data and evidence as it relates to the currents in that part of the Columbia. You seem quite sure that debris only goes around the west side of Caterpillar Island and any debris south of that could never ever end up on Tena Bar. I’d like your source on that.

I’m not challenging you. I’m just curious.

Re: georger

Some of you act like entitled millennials who have never been told you’re wrong ever in your life. Georger might be indelicate at times, but at least he is willing to call out BS when he smells it. Some of you need to grow up and accept the fact that if you are going to share a theory, you might be told it’s wrong and/or stupid. It’s part of the deal.


Countering someone's theory while providing something of actual substance is one thing. But the dumb ass shit that guy posts on a daily basis contributes absolutely nothing to the discussion. He is childish and immature and strikes me as a bitter and lonely old man. It's like when my wife and I are having an important discussion and our 4-year-old is interrupting us because she wants us to watch her balance on one leg. All he does is mock what everyone else says while never actually saying anything of his own. There's a proper way to call out B.S. And then there's Georger's way. He is the very definition of an internet troll. It's such a tired act. It's gone on for years. Frankly, it's a troubling pattern of behavior and I think the guy has some serious issues he probably needs to address. 

If he disagrees with something I put forward, great. Let's engage in an adult, civilized dialogue. But he is clearly not capable of that. Instead, he resorts to name calling, mockery and bizarre, confusing rants that sound like the town drunk. Most of all, his blatant disrespect of so many members here is just flat-out unacceptable and I'm so tired of seeing it day in and day out. Look at the exchanges that EU and I have had over the last couple days. There are certain aspects of his theory that I question, and we engage in civilized back-and-forth while dissecting those things. There's no childish mocking, no immature name calling, no nonsensical buffoonery. That's how adults interact with one another. Then take notice of how George interacts with people. See the difference?

For him to call himself an "academic" is laughable. He may be an academic on paper, but he acts like a freaking kindergartner. It's sad, because I bet he actually has a lot that he could contribute. Unfortunately, I've never seen it. 
5
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by Robert99 on August 13, 2020, 08:16:57 PM »
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Wrapped tightly inside the money bag, the interior cash would have been protected from the elements.

In a no-pull situation, Cooper would have impacted at a speed of about 180 MPH.  At that speed, after impact the money would not be as tightly wrapped as you might think.
Lots of variables there:

The angle he hit
Whether he hit water or land
How securely fastened the bag was

Also, you’re assuming a no-pull when it’s possible he did deeply the chute only to drown after landing in the water.

At 180 MPH, the "angle" doesn't make much difference.  Whether het hit water or land doesn't make much difference either.

How securely the money bag was fastened does make a difference.  But if he landed in the water, how did the money bag get several feet above the tide line for that period of time?

If he deployed and then landed in the Columbia and drowned, he probably would have gone downstream past Tina Bar within a few hours at most.  So by daybreak, he would be downstream of Tina Bar and so would the money bag.  And both would probably be on the west side of the Columbia when they went by Tina Bar.
I’d be interested in seeing your data on th those two points - particularly as to the currents along that area of the Colombia.

Chaucer, what are your specific questions?
Specifically, your data and evidence as it relates to the currents in that part of the Columbia. You seem quite sure that debris only goes around the west side of Caterpillar Island and any debris south of that could never ever end up on Tena Bar. I’d like your source on that.

I’m not challenging you. I’m just curious.

Re: georger

Some of you act like entitled millennials who have never been told you’re wrong ever in your life. Georger might be indelicate at times, but at least he is willing to call out BS when he smells it. Some of you need to grow up and accept the fact that if you are going to share a theory, you might be told it’s wrong and/or stupid. It’s part of the deal.

Oh, my!  Chaucer, I believe that you have described yourself as an academic and I think Georger views himself as one as well.  As academics, I suspect that neither of you like to be told that you are full of shit.  Nevertheless, I will do so when the situation warrants it.  And I also suspect that both of you are much more likely to have an "entitled millennial" viewpoint that myself.  As you point out, it's part of the deal.

To respond to your original question, which is basically why does debris end up on the west side of the Columbia when making the turn to the north, we need to understand some very fundamental physics. 

How does the river turn to the north in the first place?  Basically, the river turns to the north because the west bank turns to the north.  It is as simple as that.  The river water just doesn't hang a right turn because it wants to.  It is forced to turn because it can't go further west.  And it can't just stop in its tracks since it is moving downhill.  So the river water follows the line of least resistance and goes north.

The debris is going to go with the flow and the fastest flow will be on the west side of the Columbia.  The 40 foot deep shipping channel is on the west side of the Columbia and that means that the largest volume of the river water is on the west side.  It would take some unusual activity for the debris to move from the west side of the Columbia to Tina Bar in the relatively short distance from the turn north to Tina Bar.

And so it goes. 
 
6
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by Robert99 on August 13, 2020, 07:41:41 PM »
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Quote
author=RaoulDuke24 link=topic=4.msg35382#msg35382 date=15972511

Even with the western flight path, Cooper is not landing on or near Tena Bar.


With the Western Flight Path, Cooper could have landed practically on Tena Bar if he was a no-pull.

Correct. But no pull means no money burial by Cooper.

Now, if Cooper no-pulled then the money could have come to rest on or near Tena Bar. Someone may have found it and buried it there themselves and the theory of burying the money in '71 and having it exposed to diatoms in '72 could still hold true. Certainly another possibility.

In a no-pull situation, no human intervention is needed for the money to get to Tina Bar and be buried under a few inches of sand.

True, but I think it's likely that if Cooper cratered where the money was found, some evidence of Cooper would have been found. After all, Tena Bar was a fishing / picnic / hangout spot. Some trace of Cooper would have been found if he just nosedived into the sand right there.

There are plenty of places on Caterpillar Island where if Cooper had cratered he wouldn't have been found until the following spring, if ever.  And the spring run offs move quite a bit of sand around and quite possibly could have covered Cooper skeletal remains as well as moved the money bag down to Tina Bar. 

And as I have pointed out for about the last 10 years, the money bag would be moving down hill when it arrived at Tina Bar.  And it is also possible that whatever remained of Cooper moved with it.  After the packets of bills came out of the bag, ever thing else could have continued on down stream.


But what about the chute and the briefcase bomb. You'd think after all these years one of those things would turn up?

If Cooper was a no-pull, the chute is probably with some of his mortal remains if he landed on solid ground and they weren't dislodged by subsequent water flow.  The money bag was obviously dislodged and moved downstream to Tina Bar and points north.
7
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by Chaucer on August 13, 2020, 07:00:36 PM »
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Wrapped tightly inside the money bag, the interior cash would have been protected from the elements.

In a no-pull situation, Cooper would have impacted at a speed of about 180 MPH.  At that speed, after impact the money would not be as tightly wrapped as you might think.
Lots of variables there:

The angle he hit
Whether he hit water or land
How securely fastened the bag was

Also, you’re assuming a no-pull when it’s possible he did deeply the chute only to drown after landing in the water.

At 180 MPH, the "angle" doesn't make much difference.  Whether het hit water or land doesn't make much difference either.

How securely the money bag was fastened does make a difference.  But if he landed in the water, how did the money bag get several feet above the tide line for that period of time?

If he deployed and then landed in the Columbia and drowned, he probably would have gone downstream past Tina Bar within a few hours at most.  So by daybreak, he would be downstream of Tina Bar and so would the money bag.  And both would probably be on the west side of the Columbia when they went by Tina Bar.
I’d be interested in seeing your data on th those two points - particularly as to the currents along that area of the Colombia.

Chaucer, what are your specific questions?
Specifically, your data and evidence as it relates to the currents in that part of the Columbia. You seem quite sure that debris only goes around the west side of Caterpillar Island and any debris south of that could never ever end up on Tena Bar. I’d like your source on that.

I’m not challenging you. I’m just curious.

Re: georger

Some of you act like entitled millennials who have never been told you’re wrong ever in your life. Georger might be indelicate at times, but at least he is willing to call out BS when he smells it. Some of you need to grow up and accept the fact that if you are going to share a theory, you might be told it’s wrong and/or stupid. It’s part of the deal.
8
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by nickyb233 on August 13, 2020, 06:04:38 PM »
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Quote
author=RaoulDuke24 link=topic=4.msg35382#msg35382 date=15972511

Even with the western flight path, Cooper is not landing on or near Tena Bar.


With the Western Flight Path, Cooper could have landed practically on Tena Bar if he was a no-pull.

Correct. But no pull means no money burial by Cooper.

Now, if Cooper no-pulled then the money could have come to rest on or near Tena Bar. Someone may have found it and buried it there themselves and the theory of burying the money in '71 and having it exposed to diatoms in '72 could still hold true. Certainly another possibility.

In a no-pull situation, no human intervention is needed for the money to get to Tina Bar and be buried under a few inches of sand.

True, but I think it's likely that if Cooper cratered where the money was found, some evidence of Cooper would have been found. After all, Tena Bar was a fishing / picnic / hangout spot. Some trace of Cooper would have been found if he just nosedived into the sand right there.

There are plenty of places on Caterpillar Island where if Cooper had cratered he wouldn't have been found until the following spring, if ever.  And the spring run offs move quite a bit of sand around and quite possibly could have covered Cooper skeletal remains as well as moved the money bag down to Tina Bar. 

And as I have pointed out for about the last 10 years, the money bag would be moving down hill when it arrived at Tina Bar.  And it is also possible that whatever remained of Cooper moved with it.  After the packets of bills came out of the bag, ever thing else could have continued on down stream.


But what about the chute and the briefcase bomb. You'd think after all these years one of those things would turn up?
9
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by EU on August 13, 2020, 05:50:09 PM »
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A poem for GEORGER:

Oh what a sad, little, life lived in vain,
when all one does is gossip, preach and complain.

speak for yourself. A poem?  :rofl:   Look the word up.

I am speaking for myself...I wrote it.
10
DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by georger on August 13, 2020, 05:26:32 PM »
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A poem for GEORGER:

Oh what a sad, little, life lived in vain,
when all one does is gossip, preach and complain.

speak for yourself. A poem?  :rofl:   Look the word up.

I surmise you picked up the Sheridan story because it was an easy 'appropriation', with provenance. A made-for-medoa story with legs you could appropriate once  its first proponent died. Sheridan never claimed to be DB Cooper. He never said he was. He even submitted to interviews with the FBI and gave dna to prove he wasn't! Then Sailshaw dies, you come along, and viola! you now are a Sheridan proponent out of thin air. Easy grab in the high stakes holdem world! Free cards and an edge.  Except Sheridan actually did live in Tibet, he was an actual Vietnam vet who went to Tibet, he has a real story there ... so people were simply asked to check Sheridan's story out including the birth of his child in a hospital ... and here you are intimidating me about this! Accusations but no answers from you! Go read the thread at Dropzone. You picked a looser.  ;D 

And your Ridgefield National Wildlife Refuge story is another looser.

You dont seem to get anything right. Oh well . . .
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