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DB Cooper / Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Last post by 377 on Today at 01:52:23 PM »
I have read a lot about Ted Braden. I spoke with Billy Waugh about his late MAC SOG teammate. Lots of MAC SOG folks think Braden was Cooper. Snow did a LOT of digging too. Braden's final job appears to have been driving long haul trucks. Odd.

Braden is a good candidate if you look at qualifications and motive, he had all the skills and then some. Balls of steel. He needed money. But nothing puts him on the plane.

The MAC SOG night jumps into N Vietnam for recon and espionage were insanely risky. Just finding each other after landing in a jungle was full of risks. They used an AM broadcast band beacon transmitter and Japanese transistor radios with ferrite bar antennas as crude direction finders to meet up. Their work included placing taps on phone lines. They had numerous close calls including a marauding tiger.

The war took a terrible toll on tigers in Vietnam. Very few remain, perhaps one or two hundred. Here is an example of how that war killed tigers. Carpet bombing probably killed many as well. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

377
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DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by 377 on Today at 01:42:49 PM »
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Cooper's body, had he landed in the Columbia, would not have floated downstream very far. I talked to a rescue and body recovery diver who works on the Mississippi River in the Twin Cities of MN, and he looked up the water temperatures on that night. He told me, with water temperatures near 10 degrees Celsius, Cooper's body would have sunk to the bottom. When his crew does body recovery in such conditions, their search area is a product of water depth alone, not current. Cooper's body would have stayed at the bottom, around the point of entry, until water temperature rose in the spring. From there, Cooper's body would "pop" to the surface and start downstream with the river flow.

If the water temperature on the evening of the hijacking was 10 degrees Celsius, which translates to 50 degrees Fahrenheit, then it was warmer than the 44 degrees Fahrenheit air temperature that Portland International Airport reported at 8:00 PM that evening.

In determining if Cooper and his equipment would immediately sink, you must also consider the volumes of water displaced by the parachutes, the money bag, and anything else he had attached to his body.  While I have run these numbers years ago, I am not going to bother to look them up now.  So I leave that to you.  And just remember that it will take some time for the parachutes, money bag, etc., to get saturated and they will be displacing a cubic foot of water or so in the meantime, and that provides quite a bit of buoyancy.

Unless Cooper's body was snagged on something on the bottom of the river, it is going to be moving downstream.  There is absolutely no way that it will remain stationary otherwise.

The diver said Cooper would sink like a stone, and that the parachute would do very little. I don't think we talked about the money bag, I might contact him again. My assumption is the money bag would come loose at impact.

How does the diver think the money got on Tina Bar?

Dredge. He's not a Cooperite like the rest of us, however he read parts of my book before it was published. He believes Tosaw's theory, that Cooper entered the Columbia when 305 passed over the river on the traditional FP

R99--

"Sink like a stone" was obviously hyperbole.

I respect the math calculations, but I have to trust a guy who fishes bodies out of the Mississippi river on a weekly basis. The Mississippi has a greater elevation change at the Twin Cities than the Columbia does at Portland, so current should be more of a factor there (and not to mention parkas and heavy clothing Minnesotans wear in winter), but my guy says it doesn't make much of a difference. Their search patterns are a product of the depth of the water. Even if we allow for a ton of error, that still puts Cooper's body at the bottom of the river within a few hundred feet of where it entered the water.

If what you are saying above is correct, then Tosaw and everyone else should have been searching for Cooper in the Columbia River and east of Portland.  And if Cooper entered the Columbia east of Portland, he or whatever came loose from him would have been in the shipping channel on the Oregon side of the river when it went by the Tina Bar area.  The Columbia makes almost a 90 degree turn to the north on the west side of Portland and anything floating (or on the bottom) of the river is going to end up in that shipping channel after making that turn.  Also, keep in mind that the shipping channel between Portland and the Pacific was dredged after the Mount St. Helen's explosion.

Why not ask the money where it came from and how, and when?

Everything else is speculation.  ;)

I'll bet 377 had already done that.

Ive never heard him say he had his bill(s) tested ?  I have heard him say he was willing to have his bill tested.
[/b]

TK has my bill and has run some tests on it. I even gave him permission to do some destructive testing if it might help, hoping for as small a destroyed sample as possible. Science FIRST!

I'll leave it to Tom to report his results.

377
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DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by georger on Today at 01:18:06 PM »
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Whatever the source of the heat, the waters of the Columbia are delightful to swim in during the summer.

I have swum downstream of The Dalles in July and it was fine. I have swum at Tina Bar in August, and it was sublime. At T-Bar on that day, the air temp was 105 degrees F, btw... so maybe the toasty-woasty water temps may be due to processes less dramatic than subterranean volcanic disturbances....

In fact, Robert, the last time I was at T-Bar with you in 2016 and it was a hot day. Remember? I so wanted to dive in and go for a swim while the filming was on-going, but the best that I could do was put my fingers into the water. It felt wonderful.

That 2016 day was about 90 degrees and I didn't stick my finger or anything else in the water.  I guess I was distracted by the duck that insisted on following me around.

Would you happen to have a link to the water temperatures at Bonneville Dam and specifically where those temperatures were measured?  I can't seem to find them on the Internet.

Columbia Temps before and after the Willamette confluence at Portland may be different ?
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DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by Robert99 on Today at 11:22:45 AM »
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I didn't realize that there must be some volcanic activity under the Columbia River Gorge that heats that ice water that is coming off the Cascade Mountains.


Another thought on swimming in Cooper Country. Often, I swim in Alder Lake outside of Eatonville. The lake is actually part of the dammed-up portion of the Nisqually River and its waters are directly fed by glacial run-off from the Nisqually Glacier on Mount Rainier. In fact, as I swim on my back and paddle around, I can see Mount Rainier off to the east in all of its icy glory. It's quite a Zen experience to swim in water on a hot day and see thirty miles away the glaciers that are feeding my lake.

Wonderful!  Wonderful!
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DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by Robert99 on Today at 11:16:25 AM »
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Whatever the source of the heat, the waters of the Columbia are delightful to swim in during the summer.

I have swum downstream of The Dalles in July and it was fine. I have swum at Tina Bar in August, and it was sublime. At T-Bar on that day, the air temp was 105 degrees F, btw... so maybe the toasty-woasty water temps may be due to processes less dramatic than subterranean volcanic disturbances....

In fact, Robert, the last time I was at T-Bar with you in 2016 and it was a hot day. Remember? I so wanted to dive in and go for a swim while the filming was on-going, but the best that I could do was put my fingers into the water. It felt wonderful.

That 2016 day was about 90 degrees and I didn't stick my finger or anything else in the water.  I guess I was distracted by the duck that insisted on following me around.

Would you happen to have a link to the water temperatures at Bonneville Dam and specifically where those temperatures were measured?  I can't seem to find them on the Internet.
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DB Cooper / Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Last post by Parrotheadvol on Today at 08:23:01 AM »
I highly doubt that Braden is Cooper, but I bet there’s still a hell of a story to be told about that guy. That may be a very good read.
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DB Cooper / Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Last post by Bruce A. Smith on Today at 12:53:15 AM »
Wow. Keep us posted.
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DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by Bruce A. Smith on Today at 12:50:14 AM »
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I didn't realize that there must be some volcanic activity under the Columbia River Gorge that heats that ice water that is coming off the Cascade Mountains.


Another thought on swimming in Cooper Country. Often, I swim in Alder Lake outside of Eatonville. The lake is actually part of the dammed-up portion of the Nisqually River and its waters are directly fed by glacial run-off from the Nisqually Glacier on Mount Rainier. In fact, as I swim on my back and paddle around, I can see Mount Rainier off to the east in all of its icy glory. It's quite a Zen experience to swim in water on a hot day and see thirty miles away the glaciers that are feeding my lake.
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DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by Bruce A. Smith on Today at 12:44:52 AM »
Whatever the source of the heat, the waters of the Columbia are delightful to swim in during the summer.

I have swum downstream of The Dalles in July and it was fine. I have swum at Tina Bar in August, and it was sublime. At T-Bar on that day, the air temp was 105 degrees F, btw... so maybe the toasty-woasty water temps may be due to processes less dramatic than subterranean volcanic disturbances....

In fact, Robert, the last time I was at T-Bar with you in 2016 and it was a hot day. Remember? I so wanted to dive in and go for a swim while the filming was on-going, but the best that I could do was put my fingers into the water. It felt wonderful.
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DB Cooper / Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Last post by georger on January 20, 2020, 11:25:34 PM »
Betelgeuse alert! Not kidding.

The brightest star in the constellation of Orion, top left reddish star, has plummeted in brightness to its lowest luminosity ever. This star which has always been very bright going back into history, is a variable but what is happening now is unprecedented in recorded times. Some people think this could be the precursor to the star collapsing into its atomic core and a Nova resulting ? Stay tuned.  See:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   

Google 'Betelgeuse' for other alerts and commentary. Go out and take a look tonight before Orion sets wherever you are at  . . .
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