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DB Cooper / Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Last post by georger on Today at 04:43:33 AM »
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First of all. I don't speak to you like you are to me...I pointed out what I read and posted it. second, R99 has no calculations of a flight path other than straight down from the malay intersection. he's referring to his drift calculations. no time frames on the placard departure to involve calculations other than drift. he doesn't believe the path like others. actually, R99 has some calculations. he believes the plane left earlier than recorded and gives a jump time and mentions the Canby intersection.

you brought Flyjack here. it's not the other way around. I'm responding to it because he emailed his concerns. I'm not taking his side either but you should address him vs posting it here. I told Fly the same when it comes to tossing the lying card around.

Now, as for some of Roberts questions...

Carr apparently didn't know everything about the case.

The crew even helped in pinpointing the jump location.

"The crew of the above airline has now spotted a possible area for this suspected departure of the hijacker to be over the lake Merwin, near, Woodland, Washington"

why would they say this if they were several miles west?

below is evidence of where the map came from and reference to the Portland area and V23..as well as the radar operator in PORTLAND stating the plane was several miles east of the centerline of the flyway.

From here on forward I will stick to the money find and nothing else. 
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DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by georger on Today at 04:19:00 AM »
No room in the above ... here is the bill FJ posted. L55376548B is the top bill in the top group, second column of the Getty photo. Note the MC or MV and a line in ballpoint ink on this bill. I dont see this feature revealed in the Getty image of this bill .
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DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by georger on Today at 04:13:35 AM »
My main problem with Flyjack is his poor use of English, and knowing exactly what he is saying. He says quote:

"L55376548B was the bill on the top one of the of the packets the Ingrams had that Ralph Himmelsbach Id'd as matching the FBI list."     What is he saying !?

It's already been established Harold called in serial numbers plural, to be verified, not just one. The FBI Getty image of the groups of bills the Ingrams turned in, shows L55376548B is the top bill, on the top group of bills showing, in the second column of groups pictured in the Getty image. See Getty photo below! Maybe this is what Flyjack means when he writes: "was the bill on the top one of the of the packets the Ingrams had" ?? The serial number L55376548B matches the photo of one bill FJ posted, with the top bill on the top group (second column) of bills shown in the Getty photo.

That does not mean that L55376548B was the top bill on the whole Ingram find! That information was lost when the Ingrams pulled their find from the sand in pieces, and stuffed everything into a sandwich bag.

We know that the Ingrams tried to separate and clean bills back at the apartment. The Getty photo evidently shows the fruits of their efforts, separating and cleaning. That photo shows the groups of money the Ingrams turned in to the FBI, placed on a table for photographing. L55376548B is shown in that photo as the top bill in one of the twelve groups photographed.

However, this photo does not show four more bills the Ingrams held back from the FBI as souvenirs, but were convinced to turn in later! 

L55376548B may be one of the serial numbers Harold called in, because it was easily seen being the top bill in one group of bills he had. He may have called in other serial numbers from top bills in other groups we can see in the Getty photo. Only the FBI knows for sure what serial numbers Harold called in, and how many numbers, or what he actually said during his two phone calls.

In Flyjack's photo of L55376548B there is a MC or MV and a line in ballpoint ink on the bill. It intersects the T in TWENTY on the right side of the bill. Im not sure I see that artifact in the Getty photo - do you? So there is one more thing to puzzle over, and make claims about perhaps? 
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DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by georger on Today at 02:30:09 AM »
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I believe Ingrams gives the same story about the serial number in a interview. I know he gave one to Ralph. that made him call back knowing he was truthful of what he had.

I told Flyjack since we don't have the lab report it's hard to say what they did to the bills. a simple answer could be in the lab report..

No. Not just one serial number but a series of numbers.

' ... he called at approximately 5:00 p.m., on February 11, 1980 and spoke to a girl in the office and gave her the serial numbers to some $20 bills that he had found. INGRAM called back at 5:30 pm and was advised that the FBI was interested and was asked if it was possible for him to bring the money into the office the next day.'

Harold never talked to Ralph on Feb 11th when he called twice. He talked to office people. He met and talked to RH and others for the first time the next day, according to records.

But, prior to any of this he called the Sherriff's office and had serial numbers ready for them - they referred him to the FBI.

Give us a url to this interview where Harold says he gave only one serial number? Or where he identifies one bill or serial number as the top bill in the found money, as FJ is claiming. ??  There was no way to reconstruct the groups of bills the Ingrams brought in in a sandwich bag. The Ingrams had split what they found into groups and lost the original order as found. The Ingrams couldn't even remember how many pieces/groups of bills they pulled out of the sand and what that order that was in! If they couldn't answer these questions at the FBI office how would they know later in an interview?
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DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by Shutter on Today at 12:52:54 AM »
I believe Ingrams gives the same story about the serial number in a interview. I know he gave one to Ralph. that made him call back knowing he was truthful of what he had.

I told Flyjack since we don't have the lab report it's hard to say what they did to the bills. a simple answer could be in the lab report..
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DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by georger on Today at 12:46:21 AM »
Is there anything in Tosaw's book that identifies the serial numbers Harold Ingram phoned in to the Portland FBI.

Flyjack is evidently saying there is ?

Flyjack is saying Harold phoned in the serial number L55376548B and it was the top bill on the bundles the Ingrams found.

Can anyone clarify this. You can see Flyjack post here:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

FJ's post reads verbatim:

" Sunday at 12:42 PM (edited)

L55376548B was the bill on the top one of the of the packets the Ingrams had that Ralph Himmelsbach Id'd as matching the FBI list.

This top bill is NOT blackened, if the FBI did use Silver Nitrate to fingerprint bills they would have fingerprinted this bill, the top one, they didn't. There was no record of SN being used and this bill would have been the primary target for fingerprinting. "



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DB Cooper / Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Last post by Shutter on Today at 12:38:48 AM »
First of all. I don't speak to you like you are to me...I pointed out what I read and posted it. second, R99 has no calculations of a flight path other than straight down from the malay intersection. he's referring to his drift calculations. no time frames on the placard departure to involve calculations other than drift. he doesn't believe the path like others. actually, R99 has some calculations. he believes the plane left earlier than recorded and gives a jump time and mentions the Canby intersection.

you brought Flyjack here. it's not the other way around. I'm responding to it because he emailed his concerns. I'm not taking his side either but you should address him vs posting it here. I told Fly the same when it comes to tossing the lying card around.

Now, as for some of Roberts questions...

Carr apparently didn't know everything about the case.

The crew even helped in pinpointing the jump location.

"The crew of the above airline has now spotted a possible area for this suspected departure of the hijacker to be over the lake Merwin, near, Woodland, Washington"

why would they say this if they were several miles west?

below is evidence of where the map came from and reference to the Portland area and V23..as well as the radar operator in PORTLAND stating the plane was several miles east of the centerline of the flyway.

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DB Cooper / Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Last post by georger on Today at 12:03:26 AM »
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Flyjack's complete post from the DZ....

 

 

The FBI walked back the Cowlitz Sheriff claims to say they could NOT confirm the Placard was from Norjak. Evidence suggests it is unlikely.

The wind was NOT a fact, according to FBI docs it was an estimate based from Portland and Salem averaged over an hour. Wind data closer to the area and jump zone have winds from the SSE to S.

Robert Nicholson’s placard drift calculations are wrong.

The flight path is backed up by the AF, F106 Pilots, Boeing, NWA and ATC….

The TBAR money being found on TBAR doesn’t mean Cooper landed nearby and buried it there, that is poor logic.

 

Eric’s confirmation bias has ignored and distorted facts to push his extremely speculative theory. The premise for a western flightpath is about as weak as you can get.

Oh, my!  I hardly know where to start here. !    Why are you defending Flyjack, Shutter. ! 

When I first read FJ's post I copied: "Robert Nicholson’s flight path calculations are wrong." It now reads: "Robert Nicholson’s placard drift calculations are wrong." He edited his original post! But let us not labor this. Its common logic!

If     "Robert Nicholson’s placard drift calculations are wrong."      THEN      "Robert Nicholson’s flight path calculations are wrong."   The latter depends on the former!    Duhhhhhhhhhhhhh.  But this goes deeper than that. I have never even seen  "Robert Nicholson’s placard drift calculations" or any other recent calculations R99 has made because, they are buried somewhere on a Ulis site you have to pay $10? to even get to! Flyjack evidently paid the $10 bucks and saw Robert's most recent calculations to evaluate. Or he is lying and he didn't pay the $10 and hasn't even seen Robert's most recent calculations he is criticizing? In any event, this is all Flyjack sponsored HORSESHIT! Its one more Flyjack stunt he has now sucked you into!

I have never ever said R99's 'calculations' are wrong.

It's not me making claims. It is FLYJACK making claims!  I simply copy his crap from Dropzone and post it here verbatim as it gets copied. Did I not put everything I posted in quotes? Why would I do that if not because it was a direct copy.

Why are you defending this guy is what I want to know!  :conspiracy: 

Is there any other major infraction in my original post YOU OR HE is kvetching about as a lie or misrepresentation I have made? When do Fyjack's claims finally get some attention and by whom?

Why am I being asked to post my sources when nobody asks Flyjack to ever post his!? Why am I being held to a different standard than Flyjack?  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 

Shutter: it is now your responsibility to go back and ask Flyjack: "Where did you see "Robert Nicholson’s placard drift calculations" to evaluate them, and can we see your mathematical evaluation? I mean either FJ saw those calcs and evaluated them mathematically or he didn't and is lying! Tell Flyjack to show us his work!

In other words I am filing a REVERSE COMPLAINT against Flyjack who isnt even a member of this forum! 

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DB Cooper / Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Last post by Robert99 on June 26, 2019, 11:44:41 PM »
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It's all in how one looks at evidence. several notations are in the 302's stating where the map came from. yes, the planes might travel the same path to Portland but that's not where they were going. they all agreed V23 was the route.

Paul Soderlind made the jump map based on the FBI map. that's why a slight difference can be seen.

Redact usually shows area's blacked out. we see zero reference to that. this would be a conspiracy more than redaction. the map wasn't even exposed to the public for decades. who were they hiding it from all that time? why is it so close timing wise. when you look at the transcripts you will see asterisk mark. these are +- up to 3 minutes and the rest is +- up to one minute. this helps explain the problem at takeoff with the 14 miles DME. it has a asterisk beside it. one can also be found on the famous 23 miles DME from Portland.

"times marked with an asterisk (*) are approximate, but believed to be accurate within approximately +- 3 minutes. all other times are believed to be within +- one minute."


The placard.....this is still another unanswered question. did 305 have the option. I have seen planes with them and they don't have that placard? the stews make no mention of the option. Boeing will not answer any questions that are not on any of there sites. several companies sell Boeing placards but will do very little without a number. I've sent the words and a photo of the placard only to get a response of needing a part number. Tom Kaye said it wasn't at Seattle. did they conclude it wasn't from 305? Cowlitz county has ZERO records of the event. it's like it never happened except the brief time it was in the news. no 302's have surfaced as of yet.

As I recall it, FBI Agent Larry Carr posted the "FBI map" and asked if anyone knew where it came from.

The dash lines in the Seattle ATC radio transcripts means that something has been deleted from the original transcript.  I have no idea what the "*" in the "FBI Notes" is suppose to mean but there are no asterisks in the original radio transcripts.  The asterisks may possibly mean that the times were based on transmissions through the ARINC radio system.  And in this context, it should be noted that the phone patch voice messages were received about 2 to 4 minutes before the teletype version of the conversations arrived.

The placard could have been installed by the NWA maintenance people in Minneapolis.
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DB Cooper / Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Last post by georger on June 26, 2019, 11:38:58 PM »
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I received a complaint from Flyjack in reference to Georger's comments.....


Flyjack states in his post on the DZ that "The premise for a western flightpath is about as weak as you can get."

He doesn't imply the flight path calculations are wrong. he states R99 got the placard drift calculations wrong.

"Robert Nicholson’s placard drift calculations are wrong."

He also backs up his statement with other evidence to support what he's talking about.

I have discussed the placard with Fly a while back. it's hard to say if the placard came from 305. there are two doors on the wall if the 727-100 has the emergency panel. it's separate from the larger door that is typical in raising and lowering the stairs. these are not typical placards made of plastic or metal. they are pretty much decals. the small panel for the emergency release has writing on it. not sure another placard would be placed near it. the crew is supposed to be trained on the emergency panel.

According to Hominid. he believes each plane was different, including the placement of the placards. the placard found was clearly one from Boeings inventory. the numbers can be seen in the lower right bottom. emergency levers are also on the outside of these planes with placards that are known to come off. my guess would be fuel related issue's cause them to come off.

The only evidence surrounding the placard comes from the media. nothing in the FBI files have surfaced regarding the placard. they state it was noticed days to weeks later which again doesn't make sense if Cooper pulled the wire lever. he would of taken off the panel to get to the lever. this should of been obvious once they entered the stairs right after the hijacking. the placard doesn't explain taking off the small panel that has two holes in it. finding the part number from the placard will give the location to where it goes. the DC9 has an emergency release from the outside as well.

The news reports on the placard also conflict.

Now, Flyjack is upset about a quote from Georger made in the same post concerning Tom. I'm removing that part to defuse this problem. both of you guys toss around the word liar when referencing each other. that needs to stop on both ends as well. fight with data. it's a lot easier.

Oh brother - here we go again! More FJ BS and cherry picking to chase around. I posted exact quotes of Flyjack's from the DZ. So .............. let me leave here and chase this shit around one more time, I will come back and defend myself from the famous BULLJAX aka Flyjack later. Have a nice ozone layer! 
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