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DB Cooper / Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Last post by FLYJACK on Today at 09:52:14 AM »
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The truth is that Cooper got very lucky. His only demand was to fly to Reno. In fact, the pilots discussed flying south over the ocean to mitigate the risk for those on the ground. As it were, the pilots opted for V23 which essentially retraced his path back down to Portland.

I've stated many times that I believe the evidence indicates Cooper's original plan was to jump shortly after taking off from Seattle. This makes sense when you consider his attire. It also makes sense when you consider that he presumably had made arrangements in Seattle if, for some reason, he had to abort the hijack attempt and disembark in Seattle--this was a very real possibility if, for example, he couldn't procure a seat in the last row.

I agree with Kermit's original statement that as facts have evolved people's stories have also evolved. That said, the physical evidence, specifically the money find at Tena Bar, indicates a Tena Bar flyover. Also, the fact that the pilots had expressed concern for people on the ground indicates that a "west of Portland/Vancouver" flight path makes sense.

Cheers!

If one rejects the FBI LZ, let's follow the logic for sake of argument. (My #1 theory is the FBI LZ)

Then, why, for example, couldn't Cooper have jumped in the Willamette Valley and the money came down the Willamette River to land on TBAR. The flightpath basically followed the Willamette through Oregon. In fact, the plane was probably over the Willamette River for more time than any other waterbody, increasing the odds as source for the money. (My #2 theory)

The problem is using the TBAR money location to make a theory fit. There are many scenarios known and unknown that can get the money to TBAR.

Just because the money was found on TBAR doesn't mean Cooper was there and if one rejects the FBI LZ then Cooper could have jumped anywhere on the flightpath.

Even assuming R99's flightpath is correct and the FBI LZ is rejected, Cooper still may have jumped in the Willamette Valley.

.
2
DB Cooper / Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Last post by FLYJACK on Today at 09:31:42 AM »
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Back to NORJAK,,

Short of FBI forensics and based on more recently found evidence, I am boldly time stamping NORJAK solved Friday August 17, 2018 4:02 PM PST. The totality of evidence is overwhelming. I have hundreds of pieces of circumstantial and corroborating evidence and am 99% convinced this is solved.

At the highest level and due to National Security the FBI/FAA/CAI/State Department covered it up, that top level coverup began 6-8 months after NORJAK. The FBI won't and canít (lost/poor DNA) use their forensics to solve this. Their objective is to maintain the PR narrative that Cooper died in the jump and was unsuccessful.

It was Hahneman. There is far too much info to adequately disclose and discuss at this place and time.



Sincerely,

FLYJACK

I embrace the Latin proverb "Fortune favors the bold." Therefore, I welcome those who plant a flag in the ground, make a proclamation and defend it.

I invite you to discuss the totality of your proclamation here...ridicule is certain to follow, but that's okay. Or, feel free to write a document and make it available. I, for one, enjoy a well-written argument and would like to read about your conclusions.

Cheers!

Flyjack, Recommend that you take EU up on his suggestion.

Sounds reasonable, but to do the argument justice it would take me a month or two of hard work to lay it all out. The goal was to solve this puzzle for myself, I have achieved that. It wasn't to write a book or waste time and energy convincing others. I have hundreds of pieces of information, the best stuff not disclosed here. There is more than enough to write a book, but I am just not interested.

I don't expect anyone to just accept my opinion without analyzing the same info I have. I wanted to be first to "plant the flag" eventually others will follow.

3
DB Cooper / Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Last post by EU on Today at 09:26:49 AM »
The truth is that Cooper got very lucky. His only demand was to fly to Reno. In fact, the pilots discussed flying south over the ocean to mitigate the risk for those on the ground. As it were, the pilots opted for V23 which essentially retraced his path back down to Portland.

I've stated many times that I believe the evidence indicates Cooper's original plan was to jump shortly after taking off from Seattle. This makes sense when you consider his attire. It also makes sense when you consider that he presumably had made arrangements in Seattle if, for some reason, he had to abort the hijack attempt and disembark in Seattle--this was a very real possibility if, for example, he couldn't procure a seat in the last row.

I agree with Kermit's original statement that as facts have evolved people's stories have also evolved. That said, the physical evidence, specifically the money find at Tena Bar, indicates a Tena Bar flyover. Also, the fact that the pilots had expressed concern for people on the ground indicates that a "west of Portland/Vancouver" flight path makes sense.

Cheers!
4
DB Cooper / Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Last post by FLYJACK on Today at 09:02:45 AM »
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Back to NORJAK,,

Short of FBI forensics and based on more recently found evidence, I am boldly time stamping NORJAK solved Friday August 17, 2018 4:02 PM PST. The totality of evidence is overwhelming. I have hundreds of pieces of circumstantial and corroborating evidence and am 99% convinced this is solved.

At the highest level and due to National Security the FBI/FAA/CAI/State Department covered it up, that top level coverup began 6-8 months after NORJAK. The FBI won't and canít (lost/poor DNA) use their forensics to solve this. Their objective is to maintain the PR narrative that Cooper died in the jump and was unsuccessful.

It was Hahneman. There is far too much info to adequately disclose and discuss at this place and time.



Sincerely,

FLYJACK

Hmmm ... so my announcement last week in your behalf wasn't that far off! (You called me a troll.) My prediction you were going you announce to the news media soon was right on mark! (You called me a troll and a liar.) Hmmm.

We know a lot because we've seen a lot. Ehhhh?    :rofl:

When is the Mermaid baby due? Will it breath under water - too?   :chr2:

You were/are a troll,,

The new information I found in the last few days convinced me. I don't give a shit what you think.
5
DB Cooper / Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Last post by MeyerLouie on Today at 05:20:11 AM »
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Itís seems that there are several things I know and apparently someone else on this forum isnít aware of. In 1971 if you rode a bike, walked or flew a plane right along I 5, you would notice that downtown City center of Both Vancouver and Portland were WEST of the freeway and the Portland airport and Portland Airbase is East of the freeway ! Itís a FACT that itís was very possible to see the lights of Portland and Vancouver out of a pilots RIGHT window and still be well within the city of Portland city limits and also WEST of the airport ! Portland is a very large city and extends East and West for many miles ! Did this know it all know that Portlandís Forest Park is one of the biggest Parks in the continental United States?

The airliner passed well west of Interstate 5 and Portland/Vancouver.  This has been discussed on this site repeatedly and elsewhere and, if you have been paying attention, you know where to find the detailed information about the airliner's probable flight path in the Portland/Vancouver area. 

And when bypassing Portland on the west side and in the "surburbs of Portland/Vancouver", at least until getting south of the Columbia River, Rataczak could look through the
window directly in front of him and see Portland on his left side.  But the only thing he would be able to see through the side window at his right shoulder is the area in Oregon northwest of Portland.

And keeping in mind that the airliner was at 10,000 feet and above an overcast and several additional cloud layers, it is highly unlikely that Rataczak could see the ground although the glow from the lights in both Oregon and Washington would probably be visible to him.  This would preclude him from determining his position based on visual sightings alone.

I have to agree with R99, I believe 305 flew west of I-5 -- for logical reasons.  Would 305 fly directly over Vancouver or Portland proper?  Not in a 727 with a guy aboard threatening to detonate a bomb on board.  There's no way that happened.  How about the Washougal theory, that the plane flew east of Vancouver/Portland by a lot?  That's where the Cascades Mountains begin and that 10,000 feet of elevation would quickly shrink as the aircraft got closer to the mountains.  The only logical explanation, the only route that makes sense is west of I-5.

And all this talk about Cooper jumping into the thick Pacific NW forest, like around Ariel, WA is totally preposterous.  No way would he risk getting his parachute hung up in the trees or getting himself impaled.  Didn't happen, Cooper was smarter than that.  He could see the lights below.  Even with the cloud cover, he most likely had a pretty good idea of where he was, especially as the aircraft approached the big lights of Vancouver and Portland.  He chose V-23 for a specific reason.  It runs the I-5 corridor, which is pretty free of trees and thickets, especially as you get closer to the I-5 freeway.  He jumped in the valley, not in the trees.

Meyer
6
DB Cooper / Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Last post by Robert99 on Today at 01:00:37 AM »
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Back to NORJAK,,

Short of FBI forensics and based on more recently found evidence, I am boldly time stamping NORJAK solved Friday August 17, 2018 4:02 PM PST. The totality of evidence is overwhelming. I have hundreds of pieces of circumstantial and corroborating evidence and am 99% convinced this is solved.

At the highest level and due to National Security the FBI/FAA/CAI/State Department covered it up, that top level coverup began 6-8 months after NORJAK. The FBI won't and canít (lost/poor DNA) use their forensics to solve this. Their objective is to maintain the PR narrative that Cooper died in the jump and was unsuccessful.

It was Hahneman. There is far too much info to adequately disclose and discuss at this place and time.



Sincerely,

FLYJACK

I embrace the Latin proverb "Fortune favors the bold." Therefore, I welcome those who plant a flag in the ground, make a proclamation and defend it.

I invite you to discuss the totality of your proclamation here...ridicule is certain to follow, but that's okay. Or, feel free to write a document and make it available. I, for one, enjoy a well-written argument and would like to read about your conclusions.

Cheers!

Flyjack, Recommend that you take EU up on his suggestion.
7
DB Cooper / Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Last post by Robert99 on Today at 12:58:14 AM »
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Itís seems that there are several things I know and apparently someone else on this forum isnít aware of. In 1971 if you rode a bike, walked or flew a plane right along I 5, you would notice that downtown City center of Both Vancouver and Portland were WEST of the freeway and the Portland airport and Portland Airbase is East of the freeway ! Itís a FACT that itís was very possible to see the lights of Portland and Vancouver out of a pilots RIGHT window and still be well within the city of Portland city limits and also WEST of the airport ! Portland is a very large city and extends East and West for many miles ! Did this know it all know that Portlandís Forest Park is one of the biggest Parks in the continental United States?

The airliner passed well west of Interstate 5 and Portland/Vancouver.  This has been discussed on this site repeatedly and elsewhere and, if you have been paying attention, you know where to find the detailed information about the airliner's probable flight path in the Portland/Vancouver area. 

And when bypassing Portland on the west side and in the "surburbs of Portland/Vancouver", at least until getting south of the Columbia River, Rataczak could look through the
window directly in front of him and see Portland on his left side.  But the only thing he would be able to see through the side window at his right shoulder is the area in Oregon northwest of Portland.

And keeping in mind that the airliner was at 10,000 feet and above an overcast and several additional cloud layers, it is highly unlikely that Rataczak could see the ground although the glow from the lights in both Oregon and Washington would probably be visible to him.  This would preclude him from determining his position based on visual sightings alone.
8
DB Cooper / Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Last post by EU on Today at 12:37:07 AM »
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Back to NORJAK,,

Short of FBI forensics and based on more recently found evidence, I am boldly time stamping NORJAK solved Friday August 17, 2018 4:02 PM PST. The totality of evidence is overwhelming. I have hundreds of pieces of circumstantial and corroborating evidence and am 99% convinced this is solved.

At the highest level and due to National Security the FBI/FAA/CAI/State Department covered it up, that top level coverup began 6-8 months after NORJAK. The FBI won't and canít (lost/poor DNA) use their forensics to solve this. Their objective is to maintain the PR narrative that Cooper died in the jump and was unsuccessful.

It was Hahneman. There is far too much info to adequately disclose and discuss at this place and time.



Sincerely,

FLYJACK

I embrace the Latin proverb "Fortune favors the bold." Therefore, I welcome those who plant a flag in the ground, make a proclamation and defend it.

I invite you to discuss the totality of your proclamation here...ridicule is certain to follow, but that's okay. Or, feel free to write a document and make it available. I, for one, enjoy a well-written argument and would like to read about your conclusions.

Cheers!
9
DB Cooper / Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Last post by georger on Today at 12:14:10 AM »
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Back to NORJAK,,

Short of FBI forensics and based on more recently found evidence, I am boldly time stamping NORJAK solved Friday August 17, 2018 4:02 PM PST. The totality of evidence is overwhelming. I have hundreds of pieces of circumstantial and corroborating evidence and am 99% convinced this is solved.

At the highest level and due to National Security the FBI/FAA/CAI/State Department covered it up, that top level coverup began 6-8 months after NORJAK. The FBI won't and canít (lost/poor DNA) use their forensics to solve this. Their objective is to maintain the PR narrative that Cooper died in the jump and was unsuccessful.

It was Hahneman. There is far too much info to adequately disclose and discuss at this place and time.



Sincerely,

FLYJACK

Hmmm ... so my announcement last week in your behalf wasn't that far off! (You called me a troll.) My prediction you were going you announce to the news media soon was right on mark! (You called me a troll and a liar.) Hmmm.

We know a lot because we've seen a lot. Ehhhh?    :rofl:

When is the Mermaid baby due? Will it breath under water - too?   :chr2:

 
10
DB Cooper / Re: DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation
« Last post by FLYJACK on August 17, 2018, 10:00:24 PM »
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I'm not certain what all of this proves. I'll explain why:

1) If the money arrived at Tena as a "brick"--specifically, three packets of 2K each bound by one or two rubber bands--it would have to have been buried in that configuration because the three packets were found together.

2) If the money had fallen from 10,000 feet up I see no feasible way that the brick stays intact after hitting the ground given the amount of energy and force involved.

3) If the money was dredged in 1974 then spread via bulldozer I see no feasible way the brick stays intact given that it would have been exposed to the elements for three years at that point, not to mention the dredging process itself is quite violent.

Simply put, whether the money arrived as three independent packets or one brick, it seems logical to assume that they would have to have been buried there. And, for our purposes, that's all that really matters...right?

1) potentially, but not necessarily

2) not sure about that.. might survive landing in sand or in water

3) I don't accept that dredge theory. Too destructive.

While it is consistent with your burial theory, it also opens up other possible explanations. It only really means that the money did not have to be personally placed on TBAR or land there in a bag/container. Other means are in play, like landing "as a single bundle" in the Columbia or Willamette or other possible scenarios..

I don't see how point #1 can be disputed. If it can be disputed then it appears to contradict your closing statement about opening "other possible explanations." After all, point #1 presumes it would have to land as a single bundle.

I agree, I thought you meant manually buried...  buried in that configuration yes, not necessarily manually buried. I should have been clearer.


If the money was planted at Tina Bar, how do you explain the money shards/fragments, EU, for the millionth time?  No way could the money have been planted.

A brick falling out of the plane at 10,000 feet?  Impossible.  Cooper secured the open bag with parachute chord, then secured the 1' x 1' x 9" bag to his waist.  Someone who just extorted $200,000 would not be so careless as to not secure the money very securely.  It is not feasible the money brick could have fallen 10,000 feet -- it was secured in the bag.

I believe the dredge theory, and I believe R99's theory is the only one that makes any sense.  Cooper was a no pull into the Columbia River, upstream from Tina Bar.  He did not survive this very survivable jump.  Read R99's explanation for why this has to be.  The money packets at Tina Bar most likely means they came from the Columbia River.  The money packets were in the money bag, which was secured securely to Cooper's person.  Since the packets came from the bag, and since Cooper was secured to the bag, it stands to reason Cooper was in the Columbia River, right there with his secured bag.

Isn't it possible the money bag worked its way loose from Cooper's decaying body, got hopelessly hung up on the bottom of the Columbia River for 3 years, but eventually broke loose and floated downriver to Tina Bar, where the bag got caught in the dredge.  The dredge got the bag and mangled most of it -- that's where the shards come from -- after the backhoe/bulldozer spread, leveled, dug, and scattered the  River sand and silt, along with the shards.  Somehow the 3 packets survived the dredging and spreading process.  The packets had to have been in the bag up to the time the dredge caught the bag, that's the only way the 3 packets were able to stay intact.

The 3 packets got buried under the dredged sand, and stayed there for the 6 years until erosion and Brian Ingram came along and exposed them.

Seems to me to be just as good a theory as any I've heard around here.  I believe R99 has come up with a logical theory of what had to have happened.

MeyerLouie
Either Iím misreading your post or perhaps you never confided in me your true feelings regarding Cooperís fate ! I see merit in R99ís theory but I see another possibility that seems more logical to me. Iíd like to take everyone back to before the Tina Bar find and examine all the pilot and FBI flight path beliefs. It was V23 and all the search area was Ariel and Battleground vicinity ! I have an exact statement made by Rataczac where he says ď I could see the lights of Vancouver/Portland out of my RIGHT window ! ď.  Once Money was found at Tina Bar, stories started to change by FBI and pilots. Soon we had the Washougal drainage theory and then the Tina Bar no pull of R99. Why is there no consideration given to any other theories. The heist originated in Portland and I see logic in Cooper surviving and walking his way back to his escape vehicle on Oregon side of Columbia river.  Itís not that far a walk from Battleground area ! There is a railroad bridge and Interstate 5 Bridge 10 miles away or so. He had all night to escape in darkness to railroad bridge. If you feel so strongly in R99ís no pull theory, I donít see any reason for us 2 to waste our time exploring other possible Cooper escape routes ! R 99ís theory defies many common sense perceptions many people have of Cooperís Sky diving knowledge and abilities. I think he planned his jump and had an escape plan. He didnít appear to be an idiot to me. I just donít buy into the Tina Bar any pull theory even though itís a possibility.

Let me assure you that alternate theories were considered and rejected for valid reasons. 

On the statement attributed to Rataczak that he could see the lights of Portland/Vancouver by looking out his RIGHT window, we need to consider which window he was actually talking about.  And don't forget that the airliner was at 10,000 feet and above an overcast at 5000 feet and several cloud layers below that when it flew by Portland/Vancouver.

There are sites online that give the views possible from the co-pilot's seat (where Rataczak was seated).  If Rataczak was talking about the window directly in front of the co-pilot's seat, then he could easily have seen things to the left side of the airliner and some distance in front of it (which the views possible remarks above apply to) by looking out the right side window directly in front of him.

If Rataczak was talking about the cockpit side window that was immediately adjacent to his right shoulder, then he was NOT looking in the Portland/Vancouver direction.  There is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that the airliner passed on the east side of the Portland/Vancouver area.  ALL aircraft and helicopters were being vectored to the west and southwest areas of Portland as they tried to intercept the airliner.  And no witness in the Portland area has EVER come forward claiming that the airliner passed on the east side of Portland.

The above are FACTS and not theories.  The "fake facts", "alternate facts", or whatever else some people claim to support their favorite scenario, is nothing but bullshit.  The whackos and gullible may be permitted to believe them, but they have no place in a serious, or even laughable, discussion of the Cooper hijacking.

Some alternate theories were considered and rejected, but not all theories were considered...

Your last statement is false.  I have personally considered all theories except, of course, those on the lunatic fringe.  And I stand by my earlier statements on this matter.

If you disagree, how about listing your qualifications for analyzing this matter in the first place and give some facts to back up your claims.

I assure you have not considered all the theories and labelling things you don't know as lunatic fringe is not a mindset for legitimate analysis.

Flyjack, you don't know what in hell I know and what I don't know.  And your previously demonstrated "analysis" here is conclusive proof that you wouldn't know "legitimate analysis" if it kicked you in your ass.

I know that you don't know what you don't know and if you knew that you wouldn't have made the statement you knew you did.

Flyjack, in your special time here, even your last claim is a stretch of the truth for you.

You made a ridiculous claim, you claimed "I assure you alternate theories were considered and rejected".. You have no way of knowing if all theories were even considered. Some were considered and rejected..

You don't know what you don't know..
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