Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tina Bar Money Find  (Read 503963 times)

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5610 on: September 22, 2020, 05:57:53 PM »
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Fair points. Let me try to counter them:

1. It's possible that the packets remained in the bag until very shortly after arriving at Tena Bar. Between the bag deteriorating, the flooding, etc., I don't think it impossible. Also, the packets were not buried deeply in the sand. Ingram said he merely swept his over over the sand for the firepit.

2. Hayden and Tomahawk are actually right beneath the FBI flight path which takes the planes virtually over the I-5 bridge. Also, I am assuming a no pull which would result in no drift - only forward throw from when he jumped.

3. The west side of Hayden is no populated and undeveloped. Marine Park would also be virtually empty in the winter. The corpse could have landed in brush or undergrowth, been covered in snow, or both. My point is that were not talking downtown Portland.

4. It's possible the drifting could have occurred at night. Given the average current speed of that part of the Columbia, it would have taken between 12 and 18 hours for it to drift to Tena Bar. Flooding would have made the current even faster. Assuming the bag had opened to free the three bundles, that means that the rest of the money would have become free and ended up on the bottom of the river along with the body.

5. The timing of the jump has always been a bit of a question mark. The best we can tell is that it happened somewhere between 8:10 and 8:15. Also, as you yourself have pointed out, the speed of the flight seems to fluctuate. Thus, the flight could have been farther along the flight path than thought.

6. This I have no answer for, just guesses. I would like to know how thoroughly the FBI searched missing persons. Then you take a guy like Dick Lepsy who never would have been accounted for. There could be explanations for this.

I appreciate your thoughts, Eric. I'd like to hear more give and take on this from you and others.

I just think a guy could sit there for a thousand years placing packets of twenties (paper currency) along the shore and never once would any packet--let alone three right next to each other--get buried by wave action. Moreover, that all three would get buried deep enough to avoid detection for eight years.

Remember too, Tena Bar started undergoing constant unmitigated erosion as of August 1974. Additionally, if the packets self-buried in May/June 1972, they would have also survived the May/June 1974 flood.

I simply look at everything related to Tena Bar and walk away thinking, "I don't see any possible way those three packets ended up here without being transported and buried by a human."
Thanks, EU. However, I think you're misunderstanding. I'm not suggesting a dozen loose packets of money floated down the Columbia and miraculously ended up stacked on top of one another on Tena Bar.

Rather, the money remains packed tightly inside either the bag or the chute pack. It's attached to a 6 month old corpse that has sat mostly frozen for the winter month and floats over night to Tena Bar. The bag eventually opens on Tena Bar. Some of the money fails to be buried and like the body eventually ends up at the bottom of the Columbia. The $5800, however, is left on Tena Bar covered in a layer of mud and silt from the '72 flood until it's discovery in February 1980.

The forces of nature are weird things. We have all heard stories of tornadoes destroying entire towns but leaving a statute of the Virgin Mary completely unscathed. I don't think that it's impossible for a few stacks of money (that are already stacked/packed tightly) to spill out that way and become covered.

Again, just a theory, but I think it is sound. I'm not married to it, but I'd appreciate anyone poking holes in it.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5611 on: September 22, 2020, 06:00:26 PM »
Let's just start with the dummy reserve is gone for a reason.

I think he would have unfolded it, then wrapped everything up in it and tied it all up with shroud lines.

Below are two interesting pics. The first is a Size H bank bag with properly-sized ransom inside showing how full it is. The second is a picture of the bank bag next to a properly-sized reserve to show the size difference.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5612 on: September 22, 2020, 06:13:59 PM »

Quote
I think he would have unfolded it, then wrapped everything up in it and tied it all up with shroud lines.

Why couldn't this be done with the pink chute?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5613 on: September 22, 2020, 06:18:54 PM »
Without actually knowing what size the bag is it's hard to use this reference. the size could be perfect but the wrong bag..I would of rejected the bag if two critical problems occurred..but that's my opinion..

His idea of using the reserve could of been to try and replicate the knapsack that would of been easily attached. he might of hoped to use it to attach to the harness which appears to have failed. without anyone saying what he did it's hard to say what he did.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5614 on: September 22, 2020, 06:35:50 PM »
Dudeman, Is there a way for Cooper to put money in the dummy chute?

1) would the ripcord have to be pulled.
2) Would he figure out how to utilize the chute/container.
3) Where could it safely be attached.
4) Earlier question you haven't seen..what exactly is the folds on a canopy..
« Last Edit: September 22, 2020, 06:37:17 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5615 on: September 22, 2020, 06:56:07 PM »
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Quote
I think he would have unfolded it, then wrapped everything up in it and tied it all up with shroud lines.

Why couldn't this be done with the pink chute?

Because he needed the shroud lines which were attached to the pink canopy to secure the bundle and attach it--or have it hang below Cooper as he descended--to his person.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5616 on: September 22, 2020, 07:08:24 PM »
How was the money put in the dummy chute...what happened to the ripcord...
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5617 on: September 22, 2020, 07:15:10 PM »
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How was the money put in the dummy chute...what happened to the ripcord...

The dummy reserve didn't have a ripcord. It required the student to open the top of the container, reach into it and manually throw the parachute out.

The dummy reserve was lightly packed and soft to the touch. Therefore, DBC could have simply stuffed loose packets of twenties into the dummy reserve without unpacking it. Or, he could have removed the canopy and rolled the packets up into the canopy, then stuffed the canopy--with cash wrapped up--back into the container.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5618 on: September 22, 2020, 07:26:10 PM »
Where does the info come from the chute had no ripcord...we have multiple critical things that are considered funny stuff that Cooper warned not to do...how many did he just let go?
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5619 on: September 22, 2020, 07:39:46 PM »
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Where does the info come from the chute had no ripcord...we have multiple critical things that are considered funny stuff that Cooper warned not to do...how many did he just let go?

I should be careful not to speak about things I am not an expert concerning. 377 should probably answer questions about a ripcord or how the container was opened. All I know for sure is that the parachute itself was literally manually thrown out by hand.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5620 on: September 22, 2020, 07:45:01 PM »
377 has never mentioned no ripcord, nobody has...the big deal has always been the X on the container..this would be 3 things missed by an experienced skydiver...

1) The famous X was missed
2) the firmness of the container
3) No ripcord..

It's like giving a kid a loaded gun telling him it's a toy gun...
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5621 on: September 22, 2020, 07:52:49 PM »
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377 has never mentioned no ripcord, nobody has...the big deal has always been the X on the container..this would be 3 things missed by an experienced skydiver...

1) The famous X was missed
2) the firmness of the container
3) No ripcord..

It's like giving a kid a loaded gun telling him it's a toy gun...

I don't believe it had an X. Also, it wasn't like the chute normally had a ripcord and it was removed. Also, I do not believe DBC took the dummy as a true reserve. Rather I absolutely believe he used it to store the overflow packets.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5622 on: September 22, 2020, 08:23:24 PM »
Well, I give up..I think it's time for another break...  8)
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5623 on: September 23, 2020, 12:15:41 AM »
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377 has never mentioned no ripcord, nobody has...the big deal has always been the X on the container..this would be 3 things missed by an experienced skydiver...

1) The famous X was missed
2) the firmness of the container
3) No ripcord..

It's like giving a kid a loaded gun telling him it's a toy gun...

It would have to have a ripcord, otherwise the container couldn't be closed.  And if it didn't have a ripcord, everyone should have recognized that it was not a serviceable reserve chute.

Further, if it didn't have a ripcord it would be of only limited use in training.  How to pull and discard the ripcord in an emergency is part of the training.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5624 on: September 23, 2020, 12:42:35 AM »
NEWS:

Seven $20 bills found in Washougal following Ingram find at Tina Bar in February 1980!