Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tina Bar Money Find  (Read 505100 times)

Online georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4935 on: August 08, 2020, 11:43:34 PM »
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Tom's video surrounding diatoms..

..


Nice. Well done. Conservative.   :congrats:    *Note, Tom says the year of the diatoms is unknown, so far. Only the season.... interesting. More may follow as Tom is able to refine and expand this study...   
« Last Edit: August 08, 2020, 11:47:15 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4936 on: August 09, 2020, 12:33:53 AM »
Two floods occurred shortly after the hijacking...

June 12, 1972, 21.5 feet
June 22, 1974, 21.1 feet
 

Online georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4937 on: August 09, 2020, 02:06:40 AM »
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Two floods occurred shortly after the hijacking...

June 12, 1972, 21.5 feet
June 22, 1974, 21.1 feet

cant confirm 72 at this moment but June 74 is ok.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4938 on: August 09, 2020, 10:34:52 AM »
I got the dates off of Vancouver's website..You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Historic Crests
(1) 33.60 ft on 06/07/1894
(2) 31.00 ft on 06/13/1948
(3) 30.80 ft on 06/01/1948
(4) 27.70 ft on 12/25/1964
(5) 27.60 ft on 06/04/1956
(6) 27.20 ft on 02/09/1996
(7) 26.30 ft on 06/19/1933
(8) 26.20 ft on 05/31/1928
(9) 26.00 ft on 06/12/1921
(10) 25.90 ft on 06/26/1950
(11) 25.60 ft on 06/16/1903
(12) 25.44 ft on 01/19/1965
(13) 25.30 ft on 06/22/1917
(14) 25.30 ft on 06/03/1916
(15) 25.20 ft on 06/13/1913
(16) 22.55 ft on 01/03/1997
(17) 21.50 ft on 06/12/1972
(18) 21.10 ft on 06/22/1974

(19) 19.54 ft on 01/24/1970
(20) 19.03 ft on 06/05/1997
(21) 18.50 ft on 12/01/1995
(22) 17.60 ft on 03/30/2017
(23) 17.50 ft on 04/27/1996
(24) 17.43 ft on 06/02/2011
(25) 16.80 ft on 02/02/1997
(26) 15.60 ft on 04/12/2019
(27) 15.00 ft on 12/30/1998
(28) 12.32 ft on 11/26/1999

« Last Edit: August 09, 2020, 10:41:17 AM by Shutter »
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4939 on: August 09, 2020, 06:22:58 PM »
Great job, Tom. Thanks.
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4940 on: August 10, 2020, 09:52:52 AM »
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Obviously I have my own theories, but TK's paper seems to point directly to some version of R99's theory of a western flight and Cooper jumping out of the plane somewhere south of Tina Bar.
Tom’s paper quite literally states the opposite:

“This discounts the theories that the flight path was more westerly than the FBI chart shows...”

I know Tom has since backtracked on his conclusions, but...
 

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4941 on: August 10, 2020, 09:53:59 AM »
Just wondering if there are any other theories out there that explain how the money ended up at Tena Bar and the Spring diatoms?

To the best of my knowledge there are only three theories that have been proffered:

1) EU: DBC buries the ransom on Tena Bar shortly after landing in the region. He retrieves the ransom in May or June of 1972 as the Columbia River floods.

2) Tom Kaye: Money ends up very near the burial site somehow, sits on the surface obscured for seven months before being buried by the Spring 1972 flood.

3) Chaucer: DBC lands and dies in the Columbia River near PDX. Everything floats downstream to Tena Bar. After several months--presumably Spring 1972--DBC just rots and floats away and the three packets are buried.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4942 on: August 10, 2020, 12:35:40 PM »
I did some analysis regarding the money find spot and came up with a few interesting things as it pertains to the Spring 1972 flooding.

To begin, after looking at several things I believe that the elevation of the money find spot in 1971--relative to flood level measurements--was approximately 14'. This means that the money find spot was about 2' below the 16' foot flood level stage set for the Columbia River.

With this in mind, I verified that there were only two high water events that caused the Columbia River to rise to the level of the money find spot between 1971 and 1980. These events occurred in May-June 1972 and May-June 1974.

Now, Chaucer referenced a few newspaper articles from 1972 reporting on the flooding along the Columbia River. The first article mentioned was from the Albany Democrat-Herald which stated that the river was at 16'--again, flood level stage--on May 26, 1972. Thereafter, newspaper reports state the river was at 18.3' on May 31, 1972 and the river topped out at 21.5' on June 12, 1972.

This is interesting, in part, because it means that when the river finally crested, the money find spot was 7.5' underwater.

Also, it makes me think that if Cooper was living somewhere other than the Pacific Northwest at this time, he may have only first learned about the Columbia River levels through local news media reports like the Albany Democrat-Herald. In this case, he would have learned that the river was rising and, unbeknownst to him, that the money find spot was already 2' underwater.

Therefore, if Cooper read these reports early on and immediately rushed to retrieve the money, in all likelihood the spot would have been under a foot or two of water.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Chaucer

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4943 on: August 10, 2020, 07:13:15 PM »
To follow up on that, EU...
I did every combination search I could think of regarding the Columbia River and flooding during May-June 1972 on newspapers.com, and those were the only ones I found, and they were all local papers. It’s possible that it might be 1974 rather than 1972, and I encourage any and all to double check my work.

If we proceed with the assumption that the money was two feet under water, then that brings up questions if Cooper lived and buried it there. Would he be able to get to that spot (roads flooded or closed?) Also, if he fell out of the sky at night and buried the money where he landed (a location completely unknown to him at the time) , would he be able to remember how to find it again six months later with the riverbank now moved up several yards? I’m pretty good with directions, but I don’t think I could do that.
 

Online EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4944 on: August 10, 2020, 08:05:44 PM »
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To follow up on that, EU...
I did every combination search I could think of regarding the Columbia River and flooding during May-June 1972 on newspapers.com, and those were the only ones I found, and they were all local papers. It’s possible that it might be 1974 rather than 1972, and I encourage any and all to double check my work.

If we proceed with the assumption that the money was two feet under water, then that brings up questions if Cooper lived and buried it there. Would he be able to get to that spot (roads flooded or closed?) Also, if he fell out of the sky at night and buried the money where he landed (a location completely unknown to him at the time) , would he be able to remember how to find it again six months later with the riverbank now moved up several yards? I’m pretty good with directions, but I don’t think I could do that.

The money was buried in the perfect spot. It was adjacent to a couple of trees about midway in between. Therefore, these trees would have made an ideal reference point even under a couple of feet of water. Additionally, it was buried about 40 feet or so from a lone gravel road--about half of which still exists today--although it is now unusable and overgrown.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Chaucer

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4945 on: August 11, 2020, 12:56:54 PM »
That would be a good experiment:

1. Safely complete the safe jump as Cooper with the same conditions
2. Land in an unknown location (somewhere between Portland and Seattle) at night
3. Bury something at night in that unfamiliar location
4. Attempt to return to the same location 7 months later and locate the burial spot

With Cooper this would be compounded by the fact that his burial spot was flooded. It’s certainly possible. I’m not sure it’s likely. I think it would be difficult regardless of any landmarks - especially given the circumstances prior to and after burial.

 
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Offline nickyb233

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4946 on: August 12, 2020, 04:10:48 AM »
How long would the Bills have been submerged under water and would that have been enough time for the rubber bands to deteriorate? I remember Tom tested how long they can survive in the water but forgot the time period he gave but I don't think it was very long. Also what would of kept the Bills together and neatly staked upon each other when they came back up to the surface? After being submerged? Wouldn't they move around and separate from each other?
 

Online EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4947 on: August 12, 2020, 10:22:21 AM »
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How long would the Bills have been submerged under water and would that have been enough time for the rubber bands to deteriorate? I remember Tom tested how long they can survive in the water but forgot the time period he gave but I don't think it was very long. Also what would of kept the Bills together and neatly staked upon each other when they came back up to the surface? After being submerged? Wouldn't they move around and separate from each other?

It's amazing to me how many people simply discount that three individual packets were found, on top of each other, with rubber bands still intact yet very brittle, 8 years after the fact.

Any theory that magically describes these packets floating and burying themselves together, especially months or years after the skyjacking, strikes me as not embedded in reality.

Tom Kaye's research showed that the rubber bands do not survive in the wild more than about 3 months under any conditions, even underwater. I imagine buried in sand their integrity will hold-up a little longer.

Nonetheless, we can all clearly see the deteriorated condition of the bills. They had obviously been there for quite awhile. Yet there are some who still think the individual packets miraculously buried themselves on Tena Bar mere months before Brian Ingram found them.

My theory, which explains precisely why and how the packets ended up on Tena Bar in the first place--additionally, explains how, why and when they were retrieved--and explains how these bills were exposed only to May-June river water, cannot be easily rebuffed.

Moreover, even though I believe the Western Flight Path is accurate, it is not necessary for the Western Flight Path to be accurate for my Tena Bar theory to be accurate. Indeed, all that is required is for DB Cooper to end up on Tena Bar somehow to bury the money regardless of where he jumped and landed.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 10:24:15 AM by EU »
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline RaoulDuke24

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4948 on: August 12, 2020, 12:51:47 PM »
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To follow up on that, EU...
I did every combination search I could think of regarding the Columbia River and flooding during May-June 1972 on newspapers.com, and those were the only ones I found, and they were all local papers. It’s possible that it might be 1974 rather than 1972, and I encourage any and all to double check my work.

If we proceed with the assumption that the money was two feet under water, then that brings up questions if Cooper lived and buried it there. Would he be able to get to that spot (roads flooded or closed?) Also, if he fell out of the sky at night and buried the money where he landed (a location completely unknown to him at the time) , would he be able to remember how to find it again six months later with the riverbank now moved up several yards? I’m pretty good with directions, but I don’t think I could do that.

The money was buried in the perfect spot. It was adjacent to a couple of trees about midway in between. Therefore, these trees would have made an ideal reference point even under a couple of feet of water. Additionally, it was buried about 40 feet or so from a lone gravel road--about half of which still exists today--although it is now unusable and overgrown.

I still like the theory that the money was buried at Tena Bar shortly after the jump and was then infected with the diatoms when the Columbia flooded the following spring.

As far as what happened next, it's a "choose your own adventure" story. Maybe Cooper goes back and retrieves the money while accidentally leaving 3 packets behind. Maybe the flood water washes the money away while 3 packets somehow get left behind and Cooper never does find anything upon his return. Maybe the money was not buried there by Cooper but by someone who was in the right place at the right time and found some bundles of cash (or an entire bag of cash) in the woods in the days or weeks after the jump and buried it because they knew what they had found and were understandably a bit paranoid.

Regardless ........

Even with the western flight path, Cooper is not landing on or near Tena Bar. If we're accounting for the northeast wind pushing the placard east, then we have to account for the same wind also pushing a parachuting Cooper east. And even with a flight path that is directly over Tena Bar, Cooper is touching down east of Highway 501 (NW Lower River Road) and likely east of the Lake River as well.

If he begins walking west after landing, he would encounter the Lake River. It's hard to see him crossing that -- in winter and possibly at night -- unless he gets lucky and finds a nearby bridge. Best I can tell, that river is a good 200 feet wide even at it's most narrow point.

He would then have to cross 501 to reach Tena Bar. It seems much more logical that when he reached 501, he would follow it and not just cross over it. After all, the goal is to get out of the wilderness, not further into it. Following the road is a way out. Crossing over it is a way back in.

So the idea of Cooper burying the money at Tena Bar requires him to cross the Lake River and then cross 501, both of which seem like odd things to do. Now granted, Tena Bar is only around 500 feet from Highway 501, and if he were looking for a place to stash money, he may have felt safer (less likely to be seen) doing it at Tena Bar as opposed to next to the road where a passing car might see him. And Tena Bar provides an easy landmark / reference point for him to retrieve it later on.

Further north, the Lake River gets further east of the Columbia, so there's a little more room for him to come down in between the Columbia and the Lake River. And if he finds the Columbia and follows it south, he could arrive at Tena Bar. But that would require crossing over waterways in at least 2-3 different places in order to get to Tena Bar. One (that connects Post Office Lake to the Columbia) looks rather innocent. But another (that connects Campbell Lake to the Columbia) looks a bit more daunting at around 60 feet or so in width. And just north of that is another of similar width.

Again, it seems unlikely that he would be crossing rivers and streams given the circumstances. But I will certainly concede that the notion that he had to take certain risks to get away one way or another.

Bottom line .... the diatom evidence is great, and it helps make a strong argument for the money getting to Tena Bar by human intervention before being exposed to the diatoms the following spring. I just have a hard time getting Cooper from his landing spot to Tena Bar.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 12:58:20 PM by RaoulDuke24 »
 
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Online georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4949 on: August 12, 2020, 01:28:57 PM »
Somebody tell Eric that it is not a FACT that the three packets arrived separately.

They didn't. There is no evidence that happened. There is overwhelming evidence that did not happen. The very idea is stupid. Words only. Shabby Headline material!  ::)

TK describes the Ingram find as a: congealed solid lump of bills. Three bundles.

Here are the groups pulled apart from the  congealed solid lump of bills, as presented to the FBI by the Ingrams.

There is not even a debate about this simple FACT. 
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 01:31:03 PM by georger »