Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tina Bar Money Find  (Read 464939 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4755 on: March 22, 2020, 11:07:08 AM »
The money sinks...
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4756 on: March 22, 2020, 01:16:44 PM »
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I think it notable that I have yet to hear of anyone advocating a study whereby they throw packets of $20s--or even $1s--into the Columbia River to prove that these packets can travel to Tena Bar--or any bar--and self-bury 50 feet from the water's edge.

Why is this?

Truth be told, no one can afford it. A person could throw packets into the Columbia for 1000 years and never once have a single packet--let alone three individual packets--neatly self-bury on Tena Bar, 50 feet from the water's edge, only to go unnoticed for over 8 years.

The Columbia River delivery theory is DOA. If anyone disagrees, may I suggest they prove it by throwing packets of bills into the Columbia.

I believe that Tom Kaye did some tests using actual bills (presumably $1.00 bills!) that were bundled with a rubber band in the middle of the pack.  As I remember it, Tom says that the ends of the bundles flared soon after being submerged and the bundles then sank to the bottom and stayed there.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4757 on: March 22, 2020, 01:19:33 PM »
I did the same test a couple days ago. it's the water soaking into the bills causing them to be weighed down. the center is tighter and takes longer for the water to soak into the bills..if you agitate the water the bills sink quicker...
 

Offline Unsurelock

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4758 on: March 24, 2020, 04:05:27 AM »
"...crumbled to the touch."

That's the term I hear most often referring to the rubber bands. So my questions are these:
1) If the bands were "intact," does this mean they were completely encircling the packets/bundles, or were they cracked and broken in spots but still stuck to the packets?
2) When Tom Says, "they don't last more that six months" in the wild, what does "last" mean? Does this mean they will simply POP off of a bundle of bills, all the tension letting loose at once, or does this mean they lose their elasticity and loosen? Do they disintegrate and disappear? ...Something else, perhaps?
3) Has anybody done an outdoors rubber band test over the course of a year (or a decade) to try to recreate the conditions for the bundles/bands?
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4759 on: March 31, 2020, 08:52:56 AM »
I created a page on my website that features a few pictures I snapped of a properly-sized bank bag with ransom next to a properly-sized reserve parachute. I believe the images are enlightening.

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Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline fcastle866

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4760 on: March 31, 2020, 02:04:07 PM »
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I created a page on my website that features a few pictures I snapped of a properly-sized bank bag with ransom next to a properly-sized reserve parachute. I believe the images are enlightening.

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Good visual representation of the bag, and having it next to a chute is good too.  I had not grasped the size of the bag until now.  Interesting thought about why he jumped with the reserve chute (it was due to the money and not actually planned for use).

Other ideas if people are bored would be to photograph or draw what the briefcase looked like open and closed (Shutter may have already done this when he was building the bomb), and a shot of the other bag he brought on board.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4761 on: April 01, 2020, 09:15:08 AM »
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and a shot of the other bag he brought on board.

I've always found the green/yellow paper/canvas bag DBC brought aboard interesting. Moreover, why did it go unnoticed until he walked out of the restroom? What purpose did it serve? Very odd.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4762 on: April 01, 2020, 09:36:15 PM »
I concur.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4763 on: April 01, 2020, 11:41:24 PM »
Liquor sales soar during shutdown.    :chr2:
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4764 on: April 02, 2020, 10:52:42 AM »
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Liquor sales soar during shutdown.    :chr2:

I'll drink to that!
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4765 on: April 02, 2020, 11:43:59 AM »
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Liquor sales soar during shutdown.    :chr2:

I don't know about liquor, but I can personally attest that sales of Miller Lite have soared!!
 

Offline Prospector

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4766 on: April 02, 2020, 01:50:40 PM »
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Liquor sales soar during shutdown.    :chr2:

I don't know about liquor, but I can personally attest that sales of Miller Lite have soared!!

Funny stuff - a lot of play yesterday on Canadian media of Canadian liquor sales soaring. 
 

Offline Unsurelock

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4767 on: May 13, 2020, 11:59:07 PM »
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The money sinks...

So do diatoms once they die. Could this support the dredge theory?

Once the diatoms die, their "frustules" (outer walls) sink to the bottom of the body of water they are in, forming part of the sediment.

A few questions:
1) Are we looking at diatoms that entered the bills alive, or dead frustules of diatoms that made contact with the bills as a component of the river sediment?
2) if the Columbia's source is 1,200 miles away in B.C., and it is fed by lots of tributaries along the way, and these lakes and tributaries all produce diatoms, are we looking at the most recent summer's bloom of diatoms from the Vancouver area, or last season's corpses from elsewhere that traveled miles to get here? (I suppose this would extend to the money travelling as well). If the latter...
3) Can we use the varieties of diatoms found to "fingerprint" a specific stream or lake where the money sat? (probably covered already, but humor me)

The Citizen Sleuth website states, "The modern bills soaked in the Columbia River were examined using a scanning electron microscope (SEM.) At least three different species of fresh water diatoms were found immediately. Subsequent examination of the Cooper bills found no diatoms. Not seeing any diatoms on the Cooper bills does not guarantee that they are not there, so any final conclusions on this would be speculative."

4) Why were no diatoms found on the FBI bills at the time of that examination, but plenty were found later on 377's solitary bill, when they all presumably came from the same source?  Did I miss a post? (Serious question)

5) If the money was wet, and it was found, as Harold Ingram said on camera, "partially on top of the ground," how does the fragility of diatoms in sand disqualify Eric's belief that the bills were saturated in floodwater that would have possibly made direct contact? (Again, serious question.)

I hope my catch-up class is welcomed as a refresher course for some of you.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4768 on: May 14, 2020, 10:12:07 AM »
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The money sinks...

So do diatoms once they die. Could this support the dredge theory?

Once the diatoms die, their "frustules" (outer walls) sink to the bottom of the body of water they are in, forming part of the sediment.

A few questions:
1) Are we looking at diatoms that entered the bills alive, or dead frustules of diatoms that made contact with the bills as a component of the river sediment?
2) if the Columbia's source is 1,200 miles away in B.C., and it is fed by lots of tributaries along the way, and these lakes and tributaries all produce diatoms, are we looking at the most recent summer's bloom of diatoms from the Vancouver area, or last season's corpses from elsewhere that traveled miles to get here? (I suppose this would extend to the money travelling as well). If the latter...
3) Can we use the varieties of diatoms found to "fingerprint" a specific stream or lake where the money sat? (probably covered already, but humor me)

The Citizen Sleuth website states, "The modern bills soaked in the Columbia River were examined using a scanning electron microscope (SEM.) At least three different species of fresh water diatoms were found immediately. Subsequent examination of the Cooper bills found no diatoms. Not seeing any diatoms on the Cooper bills does not guarantee that they are not there, so any final conclusions on this would be speculative."

4) Why were no diatoms found on the FBI bills at the time of that examination, but plenty were found later on 377's solitary bill, when they all presumably came from the same source?  Did I miss a post? (Serious question)

5) If the money was wet, and it was found, as Harold Ingram said on camera, "partially on top of the ground," how does the fragility of diatoms in sand disqualify Eric's belief that the bills were saturated in floodwater that would have possibly made direct contact? (Again, serious question.)

I hope my catch-up class is welcomed as a refresher course for some of you.

As it stands right now I'll be burying money on or around Tena Bar in a week to test the diatom theories. Originally I was supposed to travel to the area at the very end of April, however, my flight was cancelled given COVID.

In my mind the fact that summer (June/July) diatoms were apparently discovered on 377's bill, and the fact that the only two very high water events on the Columbia River from November 1971 to February 1980 occurred in the month of June--apparently during the summer diatom bloom--is too much of a coincidence.

Moreover, there is other evidence surrounding the bills that we cannot forget. Specifically: there were three packets stacked upon each other; the stacks were found at a point approximately 50 feet from the water's edge (in 1980) and at an elevation approximately 10 feet above the surface of the Columbia River; very fragile rubber bands were still partially intact; the stacks were found at a point well beyond the dredge spoils placed upon the Columbia in August 1974--the final dredge spoil placement; the stacks were found buried--not just on the surface--more than 8 years after the skyjacking; and finally, the stacks were found many miles from both the FBI drop zone and my drop zone along the Western Flight Path.

All of this leads me to believe that the money had to have been buried--in all likelihood by DB Cooper himself--shortly after the skyjacking, and that the diatoms had to come during one of, if not both, high water events on the Columbia River.

That said, burying the cash in a week or so and letting them stay buried through the summer diatom bloom should help us establish some facts.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4769 on: May 14, 2020, 11:58:01 AM »
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The money sinks...

So do diatoms once they die. Could this support the dredge theory?

Once the diatoms die, their "frustules" (outer walls) sink to the bottom of the body of water they are in, forming part of the sediment.

A few questions:
1) Are we looking at diatoms that entered the bills alive, or dead frustules of diatoms that made contact with the bills as a component of the river sediment?
2) if the Columbia's source is 1,200 miles away in B.C., and it is fed by lots of tributaries along the way, and these lakes and tributaries all produce diatoms, are we looking at the most recent summer's bloom of diatoms from the Vancouver area, or last season's corpses from elsewhere that traveled miles to get here? (I suppose this would extend to the money travelling as well). If the latter...
3) Can we use the varieties of diatoms found to "fingerprint" a specific stream or lake where the money sat? (probably covered already, but humor me)

The Citizen Sleuth website states, "The modern bills soaked in the Columbia River were examined using a scanning electron microscope (SEM.) At least three different species of fresh water diatoms were found immediately. Subsequent examination of the Cooper bills found no diatoms. Not seeing any diatoms on the Cooper bills does not guarantee that they are not there, so any final conclusions on this would be speculative."

4) Why were no diatoms found on the FBI bills at the time of that examination, but plenty were found later on 377's solitary bill, when they all presumably came from the same source?  Did I miss a post? (Serious question)

5) If the money was wet, and it was found, as Harold Ingram said on camera, "partially on top of the ground," how does the fragility of diatoms in sand disqualify Eric's belief that the bills were saturated in floodwater that would have possibly made direct contact? (Again, serious question.)

I hope my catch-up class is welcomed as a refresher course for some of you.

As it stands right now I'll be burying money on or around Tena Bar in a week to test the diatom theories. Originally I was supposed to travel to the area at the very end of April, however, my flight was cancelled given COVID.

In my mind the fact that summer (June/July) diatoms were apparently discovered on 377's bill, and the fact that the only two very high water events on the Columbia River from November 1971 to February 1980 occurred in the month of June--apparently during the summer diatom bloom--is too much of a coincidence.

Moreover, there is other evidence surrounding the bills that we cannot forget. Specifically: there were three packets stacked upon each other; the stacks were found at a point approximately 50 feet from the water's edge (in 1980) and at an elevation approximately 10 feet above the surface of the Columbia River; very fragile rubber bands were still partially intact; the stacks were found at a point well beyond the dredge spoils placed upon the Columbia in August 1974--the final dredge spoil placement; the stacks were found buried--not just on the surface--more than 8 years after the skyjacking; and finally, the stacks were found many miles from both the FBI drop zone and my drop zone along the Western Flight Path.

All of this leads me to believe that the money had to have been buried--in all likelihood by DB Cooper himself--shortly after the skyjacking, and that the diatoms had to come during one of, if not both, high water events on the Columbia River.

That said, burying the cash in a week or so and letting them stay buried through the summer diatom bloom should help us establish some facts.

I question your data, your methods, and your conclusions. And the other guy too who is not a diatom expert at U Wash. If you want to do some diatom work at Tina Bar, dont bury anything, but dig. How many generations of diatom skeletons are in the strata there, in addition to fresh living ones on top? How many species did Tom find. 4? 5? 6?  more? Tom seems to be ignoring some species and basing everything on a formosa - why?

What diatom experets at U Wash have you consulted? Can you name one? What qualifies you in these matters?


* There are currently at least four people with money experiments happened at TBar this year ... you will be No.5 ... several people's bills buried there have been spotted and removed by somebody - sabotage.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 12:23:21 PM by georger »