Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tina Bar Money Find  (Read 454057 times)

Online Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4710 on: February 21, 2020, 12:39:20 AM »
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What is a tide line?

One of the more fascinating aspect of Cooper World is the fact that certain terms or circumstances that I, or others, take for granted are not accepted by others. Such is the case with the term "tide line."

To me, a tide line is a distinct line of detritus on a beach that runs parallel to the prevailing water line. Today, I realized that my experience in my former life of being a commercial beachcleaner in New York - and a kid who lived 11 miles from the water and was at the beach at least 2-3 times a week - has shaped what I consider to be a real tide line.

What I have observed at T-Bar - with Robert and many others over the years - is perhaps best described as a "debris line." These deposits are linear for sure, but only run about 10-50 feet, and have always appeared to me as the wash-up of river debris - twigs, junk, grassy stuff, flotables, etc. - from the highest level of water volume that day (or night). In fact, most days that I have been on the Columbia, in particular T-Bar, I have not seen any organized debris line of any kind - tidal or otherwise.

What I do see is that, in general, the debris actually clumps around catchment areas, such as tree and bushes, upended stumps and roots, wing dams, rocks, etc.

Bruce, At Tina Bar there is a smooth and hard packed area that the waves and tides wash on a daily basis.  This area extends from about 5 to 10 feet from the lowest level of the water depending on the slope of the beach.  Then the beach immediately transitions into a rough surface of dry and loose sand which is very difficult to walk in.  That transition point is what I call the tide line.  And I am sure that you have seen it and walked on it.

Above you say: "And the daily tidal variation is between one and two feet at Tina Bar."

Please translate this into an actual line or zone on the excavation photo ... people can see.

Where does one and two feet fall in the space A-D ?

Sooner or later all of these factoids, numbers, and opinions you keep tossing out have to translate into something a common ordinary person can understand, see, and evaluate!

Georger, as you would know if you bothered to visit Tina Bar at least one time, it does not now look anything like that picture which was taken in mid-February 1980.  But even you should be able to tell from that picture that most of the digging was done well away from the tide line.

I am not aware of having tossed out any "factoids, numbers, and opinions" that the average village idiot couldn't understand.  As you apparently haven't noticed, I have gone out of my way to explain things in my posts.  If you can't comprehend what I am posting, then I think it is obvious why you want to hide in the bushes.

The remark about the daily tidal variation was taken from a US Topographical Map of the Tina Bar area.  But I doubt that you will accept that as being valid.

 

Online Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4711 on: February 21, 2020, 12:43:28 AM »
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What is a tide line?

One of the more fascinating aspect of Cooper World is the fact that certain terms or circumstances that I, or others, take for granted are not accepted by others. Such is the case with the term "tide line."

To me, a tide line is a distinct line of detritus on a beach that runs parallel to the prevailing water line. Today, I realized that my experience in my former life of being a commercial beachcleaner in New York - and a kid who lived 11 miles from the water and was at the beach at least 2-3 times a week - has shaped what I consider to be a real tide line.

What I have observed at T-Bar - with Robert and many others over the years - is perhaps best described as a "debris line." These deposits are linear for sure, but only run about 10-50 feet, and have always appeared to me as the wash-up of river debris - twigs, junk, grassy stuff, flotables, etc. - from the highest level of water volume that day (or night). In fact, most days that I have been on the Columbia, in particular T-Bar, I have not seen any organized debris line of any kind - tidal or otherwise.

What I do see is that, in general, the debris actually clumps around catchment areas, such as tree and bushes, upended stumps and roots, wing dams, rocks, etc.

Bruce, At Tina Bar there is a smooth and hard packed area that the waves and tides wash on a daily basis.  This area extends from about 5 to 10 feet from the lowest level of the water depending on the slope of the beach.  Then the beach immediately transitions into a rough surface of dry and loose sand which is very difficult to walk in.  That transition point is what I call the tide line.  And I am sure that you have seen it and walked on it.

Where does YOUR tide line fall on this 1980 photo?  Lines A - D. 

*Anyone in the whole Universe may answer!

Other things being equal, the tide line would be the eastern edge of the dark area immediately adjacent to the water.
 

Online georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4712 on: February 21, 2020, 12:48:11 AM »
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What is a tide line?

One of the more fascinating aspect of Cooper World is the fact that certain terms or circumstances that I, or others, take for granted are not accepted by others. Such is the case with the term "tide line."

To me, a tide line is a distinct line of detritus on a beach that runs parallel to the prevailing water line. Today, I realized that my experience in my former life of being a commercial beachcleaner in New York - and a kid who lived 11 miles from the water and was at the beach at least 2-3 times a week - has shaped what I consider to be a real tide line.

What I have observed at T-Bar - with Robert and many others over the years - is perhaps best described as a "debris line." These deposits are linear for sure, but only run about 10-50 feet, and have always appeared to me as the wash-up of river debris - twigs, junk, grassy stuff, flotables, etc. - from the highest level of water volume that day (or night). In fact, most days that I have been on the Columbia, in particular T-Bar, I have not seen any organized debris line of any kind - tidal or otherwise.

What I do see is that, in general, the debris actually clumps around catchment areas, such as tree and bushes, upended stumps and roots, wing dams, rocks, etc.

Bruce, At Tina Bar there is a smooth and hard packed area that the waves and tides wash on a daily basis.  This area extends from about 5 to 10 feet from the lowest level of the water depending on the slope of the beach.  Then the beach immediately transitions into a rough surface of dry and loose sand which is very difficult to walk in.  That transition point is what I call the tide line.  And I am sure that you have seen it and walked on it.

Where does YOUR tide line fall on this 1980 photo?  Lines A - D. 

*Anyone in the whole Universe may answer!

Other things being equal, the tide line would be the eastern edge of the dark area immediately adjacent to the water.

How does that relate to A-D ?  There is a reason for asking this ... has to do with diatom ecology and species distribution vs tidal zones..

** A new regional dataset comprising 425 intertidal diatom taxa from 175 samples from 11 ecologically diverse Oregon and Washington estuaries illustrates the importance of compiling a large modern dataset from a range of sites. Cluster analyses and detrended correspondence analysis of the diatom assemblages identify distinct vertical zones within supratidal, intertidal and subtidal environments at six of the 11 study sites, but the abundance of some of the most common species varies widely among and within sites. Canonical correspondence analysis of the regional dataset shows relationships between diatom species and tidal exposure, salinity and substratum (grain size and organic content). Correspondence analyses of local datasets show higher values of explained variation than the analysis of the combined regional dataset. Our results emphasize that studies of the autecology of diatom species require many samples from a range of modern environments to adequately characterize species-environment relationships.    You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 12:50:01 AM by georger »
 

Online Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4713 on: February 21, 2020, 12:55:39 AM »
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What is a tide line?

One of the more fascinating aspect of Cooper World is the fact that certain terms or circumstances that I, or others, take for granted are not accepted by others. Such is the case with the term "tide line."

To me, a tide line is a distinct line of detritus on a beach that runs parallel to the prevailing water line. Today, I realized that my experience in my former life of being a commercial beachcleaner in New York - and a kid who lived 11 miles from the water and was at the beach at least 2-3 times a week - has shaped what I consider to be a real tide line.

What I have observed at T-Bar - with Robert and many others over the years - is perhaps best described as a "debris line." These deposits are linear for sure, but only run about 10-50 feet, and have always appeared to me as the wash-up of river debris - twigs, junk, grassy stuff, flotables, etc. - from the highest level of water volume that day (or night). In fact, most days that I have been on the Columbia, in particular T-Bar, I have not seen any organized debris line of any kind - tidal or otherwise.

What I do see is that, in general, the debris actually clumps around catchment areas, such as tree and bushes, upended stumps and roots, wing dams, rocks, etc.

Bruce, At Tina Bar there is a smooth and hard packed area that the waves and tides wash on a daily basis.  This area extends from about 5 to 10 feet from the lowest level of the water depending on the slope of the beach.  Then the beach immediately transitions into a rough surface of dry and loose sand which is very difficult to walk in.  That transition point is what I call the tide line.  And I am sure that you have seen it and walked on it.

Where does YOUR tide line fall on this 1980 photo?  Lines A - D. 

*Anyone in the whole Universe may answer!

Other things being equal, the tide line would be the eastern edge of the dark area immediately adjacent to the water.

How does that relate to A-D ?  There is a reason for asking this ... has to do with diatom ecology and species distribution vs tidal zones..

** A new regional dataset comprising 425 intertidal diatom taxa from 175 samples from 11 ecologically diverse Oregon and Washington estuaries illustrates the importance of compiling a large modern dataset from a range of sites. Cluster analyses and detrended correspondence analysis of the diatom assemblages identify distinct vertical zones within supratidal, intertidal and subtidal environments at six of the 11 study sites, but the abundance of some of the most common species varies widely among and within sites. Canonical correspondence analysis of the regional dataset shows relationships between diatom species and tidal exposure, salinity and substratum (grain size and organic content). Correspondence analyses of local datasets show higher values of explained variation than the analysis of the combined regional dataset. Our results emphasize that studies of the autecology of diatom species require many samples from a range of modern environments to adequately characterize species-environment relationships.    You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I don't have the slightest idea what the lines have to do with your question.
 

Online georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4714 on: February 21, 2020, 01:02:13 AM »
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What is a tide line?

One of the more fascinating aspect of Cooper World is the fact that certain terms or circumstances that I, or others, take for granted are not accepted by others. Such is the case with the term "tide line."

To me, a tide line is a distinct line of detritus on a beach that runs parallel to the prevailing water line. Today, I realized that my experience in my former life of being a commercial beachcleaner in New York - and a kid who lived 11 miles from the water and was at the beach at least 2-3 times a week - has shaped what I consider to be a real tide line.

What I have observed at T-Bar - with Robert and many others over the years - is perhaps best described as a "debris line." These deposits are linear for sure, but only run about 10-50 feet, and have always appeared to me as the wash-up of river debris - twigs, junk, grassy stuff, flotables, etc. - from the highest level of water volume that day (or night). In fact, most days that I have been on the Columbia, in particular T-Bar, I have not seen any organized debris line of any kind - tidal or otherwise.

What I do see is that, in general, the debris actually clumps around catchment areas, such as tree and bushes, upended stumps and roots, wing dams, rocks, etc.

Bruce, At Tina Bar there is a smooth and hard packed area that the waves and tides wash on a daily basis.  This area extends from about 5 to 10 feet from the lowest level of the water depending on the slope of the beach.  Then the beach immediately transitions into a rough surface of dry and loose sand which is very difficult to walk in.  That transition point is what I call the tide line.  And I am sure that you have seen it and walked on it.

Where does YOUR tide line fall on this 1980 photo?  Lines A - D. 

*Anyone in the whole Universe may answer!

Other things being equal, the tide line would be the eastern edge of the dark area immediately adjacent to the water.

How does that relate to A-D ?  There is a reason for asking this ... has to do with diatom ecology and species distribution vs tidal zones..

** A new regional dataset comprising 425 intertidal diatom taxa from 175 samples from 11 ecologically diverse Oregon and Washington estuaries illustrates the importance of compiling a large modern dataset from a range of sites. Cluster analyses and detrended correspondence analysis of the diatom assemblages identify distinct vertical zones within supratidal, intertidal and subtidal environments at six of the 11 study sites, but the abundance of some of the most common species varies widely among and within sites. Canonical correspondence analysis of the regional dataset shows relationships between diatom species and tidal exposure, salinity and substratum (grain size and organic content). Correspondence analyses of local datasets show higher values of explained variation than the analysis of the combined regional dataset. Our results emphasize that studies of the autecology of diatom species require many samples from a range of modern environments to adequately characterize species-environment relationships.    You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I don't have the slightest idea what the lines have to do with your question.

I guess the lines are too complex for someone to understand.

How would you like the area on this photo divided? Cirles. ellipses, squiggles ...? This is where things always break down because you dont have any computer graphic skills. I guess we are screwed and communication is impossible.
Have a nice whatever . communication is impossible. 
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 01:03:14 AM by georger »
 

Online georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4715 on: February 21, 2020, 01:09:26 AM »
new question for Tom Kaye -

in the formation shown below what length of time does this formation represent, if you have an idea? seconds, minutes, hours, days? Notice the second stalk from left is twisted and broken for some reason. 
 

Offline Tom Kaye

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4716 on: February 21, 2020, 03:07:10 AM »
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new question for Tom Kaye -

in the formation shown below what length of time does this formation represent, if you have an idea? seconds, minutes, hours, days? Notice the second stalk from left is twisted and broken for some reason.

I am not understanding your question. The picture is a diatom, it is not a formation.  Are you asking how long the diatom takes to form? If that is the question I have no idea.

Tom Kaye

« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 03:09:34 AM by Tom Kaye »
 

Online georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4717 on: February 21, 2020, 04:21:00 AM »
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new question for Tom Kaye -

in the formation shown below what length of time does this formation represent, if you have an idea? seconds, minutes, hours, days? Notice the second stalk from left is twisted and broken for some reason.

I am not understanding your question. The picture is a diatom, it is not a formation.  Are you asking how long the diatom takes to form? If that is the question I have no idea.

Tom Kaye

Maybe Im wrong but I thought a-formosa forms as individual tubes or stalks and these combine at the valve to form a star-like assembly or colony ... part of their life cycle if they get that far. How long does the whole process take?  I could be wrong, and will do more reading. I thought I read the process doesn't take long. ? Just ignore the question until I am more informed about this!  ;) 

'Asterionella formosa cells live in colonies, joined by mucilage pads. The elongate shape of the frustules and the spiral colonies are resistant to sinking in their planktonic habitat....'  Description. Asterionella average cell size is 60–85 micrometers long and 2–4 micrometers wide. It forms colonies that often consist of eight cells, but can vary up to 20 cells. The cells in the colony are attached by the apex by extracellular matter.'  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

a-formosa average lifetime ~ 6 days.  In the presence of adequate nutrients and sunlight, an assemblage of living diatoms doubles approximately every 24 hours by asexual multiple fission; the maximum life span of individual cells is about six days.

A single diatom cell can divide and form two new cells. Cells may divide as quickly as once a day up to once every several weeks.

The silica cell wall is a sort of biological constraint, because with each cell division diatom cells become progressively smaller. As a result, the older the diatom cell, the smaller it is.

This is an interesting thing, that each daughter cell is smaller than the parent. The daughter cell forms a new silica cell wall inside the parent, but the rigid glass cell wall cannot expand. The baby is stuck, for its entire life, being smaller than the mom. Not only that, each daughter cell has one valve (half of a diatom cell) donated by the parent and one valve that is newly formed.

So at this point, things get philosophical. If a parent diatom cell divides and gives one cell wall to one daughter and the other cell wall to the other daughter, does the parent still exist?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 05:04:51 AM by georger »
 

Online Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4718 on: February 21, 2020, 12:53:24 PM »
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I don't have the slightest idea what the lines have to do with your question.

I guess the lines are too complex for someone to understand.

How would you like the area on this photo divided? Cirles. ellipses, squiggles ...? This is where things always break down because you dont have any computer graphic skills. I guess we are screwed and communication is impossible.
Have a nice whatever . communication is impossible.

Okay, you are just saying that you don't know what those lines mean either.  But you did figure out how to draw straight lines so your intellectual capabilities are developing.
 

Online georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4719 on: February 21, 2020, 01:58:08 PM »
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I don't have the slightest idea what the lines have to do with your question.

I guess the lines are too complex for someone to understand.

How would you like the area on this photo divided? Cirles. ellipses, squiggles ...? This is where things always break down because you dont have any computer graphic skills. I guess we are screwed and communication is impossible.
Have a nice whatever . communication is impossible.

Okay, you are just saying that you don't know what those lines mean either.  But you did figure out how to draw straight lines so your intellectual capabilities are developing.

personal attack filed =
 

Online Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4720 on: February 21, 2020, 02:00:46 PM »
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I don't have the slightest idea what the lines have to do with your question.

I guess the lines are too complex for someone to understand.

How would you like the area on this photo divided? Cirles. ellipses, squiggles ...? This is where things always break down because you dont have any computer graphic skills. I guess we are screwed and communication is impossible.
Have a nice whatever . communication is impossible.

Okay, you are just saying that you don't know what those lines mean either.  But you did figure out how to draw straight lines so your intellectual capabilities are developing.

personal attack filed =

Maybe I should start filing complaints about your posts and other messages.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4721 on: February 21, 2020, 03:51:32 PM »
Perhaps both of you should stop responding to each other?
 
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Online Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4722 on: February 21, 2020, 04:07:05 PM »
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Perhaps both of you should stop responding to each other?

I think that is a good idea also.
 

Online georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4723 on: February 21, 2020, 11:33:35 PM »
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Perhaps both of you should stop responding to each other?

I tried that - even left for almost two months. It didnt work.  There will be no discussion of case points tonight, by me.

The TRUTH IS, this is a campaign being conducted by R99 and Ulis (maybe others) and nobody is going to stop it. R99 has even branched out to Dropzone where he is attacking FLYJACK ... its a campaign to wipe out all competition.

It's a no win situation for everyone! 

Current victims this week alone are: Kermit, Bruce Smith, Nicky, FLYJACK, and another whose name I forget. The body count just goes higher and higher..... Tom Kaye is on their last; they just havent geared up for that yet!  ;)

I came here tonight to discuss diatoms with material prepared but have been diverted by R99 crap!

Get your diatom material from Kaye, Ulis, and R99. Im done.
 
Goodnight.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 12:05:17 AM by georger »
 

Online Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4724 on: February 22, 2020, 12:03:30 AM »
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Perhaps both of you should stop responding to each other?

I tried that - even left for almost two months. It didnt work.  There will be no discussion of case points tonight, by me.

The TRUTH IS, this is a campaign being conducted by R99 and Ulis (maybe others) and nobody is going to stop it. R99 has even branched out to Dropzone where he is attacking FLYJACK ... its a campaign to wipe out all competition.

It's a no win situation for everyone! 

Current victims this week alone are: Kermit, Bruce Smith, Nicky, FLYJACK, and another whose name I forget. The body count just goes higher and higher..... Tom Kaye is on their last; they just havent geared up for that yet!  ;)

I came here tonight to discuss diatoms with material prepared but have been diverted by R99 crap!

Get your diatom material from Kaye, Ulis, and R99. Im done.
 
Goodnight.

Georger, I'll give you a pass on this post which is baloney.  If you do this again, I will correct your nonsense.