Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tina Bar Money Find  (Read 407603 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4260 on: June 11, 2019, 04:56:32 AM »
I have a challenge for Flyjack.

Is this bill an example of his unevenly stained bills?

The right side is stained but the left side isn't.
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4261 on: June 11, 2019, 10:06:02 PM »
Does anyone have the full Palmer Report? Or do we only have the summary found on the Forum website?
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4262 on: June 11, 2019, 11:44:44 PM »
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Does anyone have the full Palmer Report? Or do we only have the summary found on the Forum website?

Galen Cook says Eng gave him a copy of the "full" Palmer Report. ... whatever "full" means.  ;)

Why? Is there some question?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 11:46:05 PM by georger »
 
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Offline andrade1812

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4263 on: June 12, 2019, 04:54:55 PM »
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Does anyone have the full Palmer Report? Or do we only have the summary found on the Forum website?

Galen Cook says Eng gave him a copy of the "full" Palmer Report. ... whatever "full" means.  ;)

Why? Is there some question?

I was just looking for something to read  ;)
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4264 on: June 27, 2019, 12:46:21 AM »
Is there anything in Tosaw's book that identifies the serial numbers Harold Ingram phoned in to the Portland FBI.

Flyjack is evidently saying there is ?

Flyjack is saying Harold phoned in the serial number L55376548B and it was the top bill on the bundles the Ingrams found.

Can anyone clarify this. You can see Flyjack post here:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

FJ's post reads verbatim:

" Sunday at 12:42 PM (edited)

L55376548B was the bill on the top one of the of the packets the Ingrams had that Ralph Himmelsbach Id'd as matching the FBI list.

This top bill is NOT blackened, if the FBI did use Silver Nitrate to fingerprint bills they would have fingerprinted this bill, the top one, they didn't. There was no record of SN being used and this bill would have been the primary target for fingerprinting. "



 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4265 on: June 27, 2019, 12:52:54 AM »
I believe Ingrams gives the same story about the serial number in a interview. I know he gave one to Ralph. that made him call back knowing he was truthful of what he had.

I told Flyjack since we don't have the lab report it's hard to say what they did to the bills. a simple answer could be in the lab report..
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4266 on: June 27, 2019, 02:30:09 AM »
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I believe Ingrams gives the same story about the serial number in a interview. I know he gave one to Ralph. that made him call back knowing he was truthful of what he had.

I told Flyjack since we don't have the lab report it's hard to say what they did to the bills. a simple answer could be in the lab report..

No. Not just one serial number but a series of numbers.

' ... he called at approximately 5:00 p.m., on February 11, 1980 and spoke to a girl in the office and gave her the serial numbers to some $20 bills that he had found. INGRAM called back at 5:30 pm and was advised that the FBI was interested and was asked if it was possible for him to bring the money into the office the next day.'

Harold never talked to Ralph on Feb 11th when he called twice. He talked to office people. He met and talked to RH and others for the first time the next day, according to records.

But, prior to any of this he called the Sherriff's office and had serial numbers ready for them - they referred him to the FBI.

Give us a url to this interview where Harold says he gave only one serial number? Or where he identifies one bill or serial number as the top bill in the found money, as FJ is claiming. ??  There was no way to reconstruct the groups of bills the Ingrams brought in in a sandwich bag. The Ingrams had split what they found into groups and lost the original order as found. The Ingrams couldn't even remember how many pieces/groups of bills they pulled out of the sand and what that order that was in! If they couldn't answer these questions at the FBI office how would they know later in an interview?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 03:00:27 AM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4267 on: June 27, 2019, 04:13:35 AM »
My main problem with Flyjack is his poor use of English, and knowing exactly what he is saying. He says quote:

"L55376548B was the bill on the top one of the of the packets the Ingrams had that Ralph Himmelsbach Id'd as matching the FBI list."     What is he saying !?

It's already been established Harold called in serial numbers plural, to be verified, not just one. The FBI Getty image of the groups of bills the Ingrams turned in, shows L55376548B is the top bill, on the top group of bills showing, in the second column of groups pictured in the Getty image. See Getty photo below! Maybe this is what Flyjack means when he writes: "was the bill on the top one of the of the packets the Ingrams had" ?? The serial number L55376548B matches the photo of one bill FJ posted, with the top bill on the top group (second column) of bills shown in the Getty photo.

That does not mean that L55376548B was the top bill on the whole Ingram find! That information was lost when the Ingrams pulled their find from the sand in pieces, and stuffed everything into a sandwich bag.

We know that the Ingrams tried to separate and clean bills back at the apartment. The Getty photo evidently shows the fruits of their efforts, separating and cleaning. That photo shows the groups of money the Ingrams turned in to the FBI, placed on a table for photographing. L55376548B is shown in that photo as the top bill in one of the twelve groups photographed.

However, this photo does not show four more bills the Ingrams held back from the FBI as souvenirs, but were convinced to turn in later! 

L55376548B may be one of the serial numbers Harold called in, because it was easily seen being the top bill in one group of bills he had. He may have called in other serial numbers from top bills in other groups we can see in the Getty photo. Only the FBI knows for sure what serial numbers Harold called in, and how many numbers, or what he actually said during his two phone calls.

In Flyjack's photo of L55376548B there is a MC or MV and a line in ballpoint ink on the bill. It intersects the T in TWENTY on the right side of the bill. Im not sure I see that artifact in the Getty photo - do you? So there is one more thing to puzzle over, and make claims about perhaps? 
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 04:29:29 AM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4268 on: June 27, 2019, 04:19:00 AM »
No room in the above ... here is the bill FJ posted. L55376548B is the top bill in the top group, second column of the Getty photo. Note the MC or MV and a line in ballpoint ink on this bill. I dont see this feature revealed in the Getty image of this bill .
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 04:46:16 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4269 on: June 27, 2019, 07:41:14 AM »
I seem to recall that the initials were made later by the agents. that's why we don't see them in the photo soon after the discovery?

It's either MLJ or MVJ?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 07:43:24 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline haggarknew

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4270 on: June 27, 2019, 07:58:04 AM »
Could it be MW?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4271 on: June 27, 2019, 08:03:32 AM »
Look at some of the other bills with the initials on them. some are better than others.I haven't really looked at them all.

Looks more like MLJ.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 08:58:41 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4272 on: June 27, 2019, 09:08:30 AM »
Comments made by PCGS.

An FBI agent's initials are visible to the left of the portrait on this recovered Series 1969 $20 note (with back plate number 86) from the infamous 1971 “D.B. Cooper” skyjacking ransom. The FBI inventoried and analyzed this and other notes found along the Columbia River near Vancouver, Washington by an eight year old boy on vacation with his parents in 1980. (Photo credit: Phil Arnold/Collectors Universe)
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4273 on: June 27, 2019, 03:00:20 PM »
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I seem to recall that the initials were made later by the agents. that's why we don't see them in the photo soon after the discovery?

It's either MLJ or MVJ?

Why is anyone marking the evidence with a ballpoint pen! ?  Who is MVJ or whatever it is? And WHY!?

Comments made by PCGS.  seem to clear this up.

However back to the original issue: Ingram called in multiple serial numbers, not just one. Tom has the same files I do. There is no evidence whatever that L55376548B was the top bill 'on the packets of bundles of bushels'  :)  Ingrams pulled out of the sand. Even if it was, which it is not, there is no guarantee L55376548B was the top bill on any given bundle unless you can go back and reconstruct the serial numbers used to construct each bundle or packet or parcel (whatever terms Fyjack is now using). 

Flyjack also claims two bundles were given to each stew! Where is his evidence for that? Where was Hancock at the time the transaction between Cooper and Tina took place? Tina is very specific in her interview notes about how the transaction occurred and who was involved or not. I dont recall Hancock even being physically present next to Tina at the time.   

Its pretty obvious you and FJ have been exchanging ideas about all of this somewhere, sometime ... maybe keep the rest of us informed about what is going on? If you dont share the knowledge about what is happening on three different forums it is difficult to know what has happened and what was said or presented somewhere in time ....

It is not news that Flyjack is trying to interpret everything to support his suspect, while also reviewing and making claims based on comments in FBI 302s being released!  It's impossible to know where one ends and the other begins. FJ is merging the two.  As usual there are more questions than answers, with people making important claims in the middle of that. Its impossible to keep up with across the space of three forums and people talking on the side of that!

When we  lose continuity across three forums we lose everything. 
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 03:30:41 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4274 on: June 27, 2019, 04:40:43 PM »
I never discussed the initials with Flyjack. we did a lot of conversing on the placard.

Our emailing started with contacting Sage radar operators. this was over a month ago. then the discussion of the placard came into play. I speak to a lot of people through email. I don't hide or hold things back. I post things discussed through emails. I operate both on and offline.

If not mistaken. Duane, Dwayne speaks about finding the money on Colberts 4 hour series? that might be where I remember him speaking about it....I just can't recall..if I was commenting about a suspect. I could tell you exactly what he said and what he was wearing, how many kids he had, how full the garbage was on November 24, 1971...but I can't  :rofl: