Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tina Bar Money Find  (Read 398050 times)

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4230 on: March 20, 2019, 05:00:23 AM »
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Himmelsbach told me definitively that Bill Rataczak had told him that 305 was flying over the Washougal.

When I confronted Bill on that statement, he hedged, and said that 305 was most likely east of Victor 23, due to the wind...

Don't forget that Larry Carr was a big Washougal Wash-down theorist for a few years. Doubt he feels that way now, though.

I  wouldnt call Carr a big Washougal fan ... and he certainly wasnt for very long. JT had everyone swayed but that did not last. Carr was merely going with the political flow at the time and it didnt last a month! Sluggo was involved in that and had Carr's ear. The Washougal theory was nothing more than a passing Politically Correct phase.

It was the hydrologist who came up with this! Not anyone in the FBI. One FBI agent (in charge?) jumped on board. The hydrologist who started the whole thing did a quick turn-around but it was already too late. The hydrologist NEVER said the money had come down the Washougal, as a fact. He said it was just one option out of several.

So, why did Rat turn around and tell Tosaw to look near Hayden Island (up to TBar) ? Tosaw is on record as having said XYZ told him to look .... where he looked! Thats a  long way from the Washougal and Troutdale!

In general, I would concur with what you've written here, G. But I sense that Larry Carr's embrace of the WW-D theory lasted more than a month.

Plus, I never heard him repudiate the Propeller Theory, which Tom Kaye did, and explained the circumstances which brought that snippet of film to the screen - basically Edge West and Nat Geo were in a deadline jam with only hours to go before broadcast once they yanked the Barb Dayton material out. NG had to fill 20 minutes of screen time in 72 hours, Phil Day at Edge West told me.
 

Offline 377

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4231 on: March 20, 2019, 01:30:18 PM »
I've got a lot of sonar experience having worked on commercial fishing boats since I was 11 and skippering them in later years. The "fish finder" used by Tosaw was nearly useless in searching for Cooper on the river bottom.

Tosaw's rake design was not optimal but definitely could have snagged suspension lines.

377
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4232 on: March 21, 2019, 01:15:02 PM »
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I've got a lot of sonar experience having worked on commercial fishing boats since I was 11 and skippering them in later years. The "fish finder" used by Tosaw was nearly useless in searching for Cooper on the river bottom.

Tosaw's rake design was not optimal but definitely could have snagged suspension lines.

377

Can you tell us anything about what Tosaw found and the different methods he used?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4233 on: March 21, 2019, 04:44:05 PM »
I'll jump in and share what I know.

Tosaw's finds are recorded in three places - his book, the YouTube clips about his work, and reports from those who worked with him, like Galen Cook.

As I recall the narratives, Tosaw never found anything connected to NORJAK. However, he did find a pilot chute on a wingdam a half-mile upstream from T-Bar, with Galen.

From the videos, I recall that he and his crew found nautical rubbish, such as a part of a motor boat, cables, and some household gear.

For me, the greatest part of Tosaw's legacy was his comprehensive involvement with NORJAK. First, he helped the Ingram family get their share of the ransom bills. Then he wrote the first authoritative book on DB Cooper, plus he is the only one to interview Tina in the convent. Later, he camped out at the Fazios for years to drag the river, and cultivated a search community, investing his own money to find evidence. He's even the source of the "fiery object" report and "Janet's" claims of a low-flying plane with something burning on the ventral side of the aircraft above the I-5 bridge over the Columbia, then it dropped away and arched towards T-Bar.

Not too shabby for a retired G-man.

I spoke with Richard a few months before his death in 2009. He was a nice guy. I'm sorry I never got to meet him in person.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 04:45:19 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4234 on: March 21, 2019, 05:34:36 PM »
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I'll jump in and share what I know.

Tosaw's finds are recorded in three places - his book, the YouTube clips about his work, and reports from those who worked with him, like Galen Cook.

As I recall the narratives, Tosaw never found anything connected to NORJAK. However, he did find a pilot chute on a wingdam a half-mile upstream from T-Bar, with Galen.

From the videos, I recall that he and his crew found nautical rubbish, such as a part of a motor boat, cables, and some household gear.

For me, the greatest part of Tosaw's legacy was his comprehensive involvement with NORJAK. First, he helped the Ingram family get their share of the ransom bills. Then he wrote the first authoritative book on DB Cooper, plus he is the only one to interview Tina in the convent. Later, he camped out at the Fazios for years to drag the river, and cultivated a search community, investing his own money to find evidence. He's even the source of the "fiery object" report and "Janet's" claims of a low-flying plane with something burning on the ventral side of the aircraft above the I-5 bridge over the Columbia, then it dropped away and arched towards T-Bar.

Not too shabby for a retired G-man.

I spoke with Richard a few months before his death in 2009. He was a nice guy. I'm sorry I never got to meet him in person.

Will open this book further tonight -

Tosaw was not a retired FBI guy. Tosaw worked for the FBI parts of the years 1951-55. His termination with the FBI was not voluntary. 
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4235 on: March 22, 2019, 03:11:03 AM »
Whoa, I didn't know he got the boot. I knew he wasn't a lifer.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4236 on: March 22, 2019, 04:41:20 AM »
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Whoa, I didn't know he got the boot. I knew he wasn't a lifer.

Im told it was by mutual agreement.

One thing Im not certain about is the amount of time he spent working out of the Seattle office as an FBI employee, if any? I will say this: every newspaper story about Tosaw Ive ever read is accurate about his years of service with the FBI, accurate about his personal life leading to becoming an attorney, accurate about his status as a civilian pursuing the Cooper case, accurate in his views about the Cooper case (his views evolved), and he paid his people faithfully so far as I know ... I have not found a newspaper story where Tosaw embellishes his private status or his credentials or what he thought about the case ... and Im rather impressed with that. He did press his case and drove a few people crazy 'begging for information' from various sources. He was accused of being a publicity hound and there may be some truth to that. But he treated his workers pretty well, so far as I can tell. And he pressed people for facts! That said, I am sure there is a lot I dont know!     
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 04:43:13 AM by georger »
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4237 on: March 22, 2019, 05:20:23 AM »
Galen, who worked with Richard Tosaw, told me that he was an FBI agent in the San Francisco office, not Seattle. Never worked there, but his brother Mike, did.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4238 on: March 22, 2019, 09:55:58 AM »
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Galen, who worked with Richard Tosaw, told me that he was an FBI agent in the San Francisco office, not Seattle. Never worked there, but his brother Mike, did.

That may be right - Mike worked in the Seattle FO for a time.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4239 on: March 22, 2019, 11:32:02 AM »
Speaking of Tosaw, I looked into the public mention of DBC's NB6 usage and from what I can tell he (Tosaw) was the first source for this information--he mentions it in his book (1984). Can anyone verify this or determine when the use of the NB6 was first mentioned publicly?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline andrade1812

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4240 on: May 17, 2019, 04:08:26 PM »
Have we ever tried getting a second opinion from a PhD on the Palmer Report? Are any of Palmer's Grad Students still around?
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4241 on: May 17, 2019, 05:35:13 PM »
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Have we ever tried getting a second opinion from a PhD on the Palmer Report? Are any of Palmer's Grad Students still around?

yes to both - there are two phDs in this forum.
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4242 on: May 17, 2019, 05:36:48 PM »
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Speaking of Tosaw, I looked into the public mention of DBC's NB6 usage and from what I can tell he (Tosaw) was the first source for this information--he mentions it in his book (1984). Can anyone verify this or determine when the use of the NB6 was first mentioned publicly?

This is the Tina Bar Money Find thread! You are OFF TOPIC here. Take chute-Tosaw question to the chute thread.  Better yet go over to MN where the chute experts are! Or at Dropzone! Please obey the traffic laws!  :bravo:
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 05:39:21 PM by georger »
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4243 on: May 17, 2019, 05:40:08 PM »
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Have we ever tried getting a second opinion from a PhD on the Palmer Report? Are any of Palmer's Grad Students still around?

yes to both - there are two phDs in this forum.

I knew that, I meant (with the highest level of respect to everyone here), someone with specific expertise in interpreting the sand layers Palmer wrote about.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4244 on: May 17, 2019, 05:47:57 PM »
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Have we ever tried getting a second opinion from a PhD on the Palmer Report? Are any of Palmer's Grad Students still around?

yes to both - there are two phDs in this forum.

I knew that, I meant (with the highest level of respect to everyone here), someone with specific expertise in interpreting the sand layers Palmer wrote about.

Tom is close to being a phD and he has years of experience interpreting geological strata. He is a published author in that regard. That is what makes his objections to the Palmer report so compelling. We have all recommended lab work on the Tina Bar find and its sands but to date nobody has taken us up on that. I tried many years ago but the holders of the money evidence folders would not cooperate, which include Brian Ingram. Somebody talked him out it! We had things arranged then POOOPHF! Ingram dropped out without a word leaving four labs and people stranded.  People were very pissed and they vowed NEVER to get involved in "Cooper CRAP" again - that included on lab at UWash. !

The simple fact is there are people who do not want lab work being done in the Cooper case. I can name a bunch of these folks.

So get Ulis to do lab work! In his kitchen. That should be interesting. 

Any lab work done at this late date given everything that has happened, is going to have to be SUPER CREDIBLE.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 05:54:41 PM by georger »
 
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