Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tina Bar Money Find  (Read 340572 times)

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4095 on: October 11, 2018, 04:39:16 PM »
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Carr spoke with one of the two on the phone..I would have to look and see which is which..I believe Grinell was the security manager...this was during a discussion on the DZ back in 2007...it appears he spoke with Grinell twice..he was confused when he was told they used paper bands...he started thinking that someone had to of removed the paper bands and replaced them with rubber bands...once the second interview was done, Carr realized he only transported the money to the airport and went by the company policy on bundling money...the second interview explained that the money didn't come from circulation and was already to go with each "packet" in one hundred twenties...and said rubber bands were used so who ever got the money wouldn't know where it came from...obviously, the bank wanted no part of anyone knowing they were involved...next thing you would have bank robbers coming in for all the extra cash lying around...

The main point of this is here is no documentation about putting multiple "packets" together..if they were already in 100's who took the time to scramble the "packets" $500 wouldn't wrap with a rubber band very good? who took the time to sort out the list to where they knew the bundles were not changed when they checked the T-Bar bills?

This goes right back to my original point.. (paper vs rubber bands is irrelevant here)

If the Bank employee random/resized the "bundles" (to make look hastily prepared) how did TBAR money get in 100's and in original order... either he did NOT at all or he resized the bundles, groups of packets. He did NOT resize the packets.

Obviously the 10 yr old "narrative" is wrong. Ckret got it wrong, his statements are unreliable. The only solution that fits the evidence is that the Bank employee resized and rubber banded "bundles", groups of packets before sending the ransom money to the plane.

IMO, Ckret conflated the two distinct money assembly events and the terms/concepts of packets and bundles..


.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 04:41:05 PM by FLYJACK »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4096 on: October 11, 2018, 04:43:28 PM »
Quote
If the Bank employee random/resized the "bundles"

to date, the way I see this is no evidence other than Carr stating the bundles were different exist...the bank doesn't claim this anywhere..the information about this appears to be extremely limited...
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4097 on: October 11, 2018, 04:51:10 PM »
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Quote
If the Bank employee random/resized the "bundles"

to date, the way I see this is no evidence other than Carr stating the bundles were different exist...the bank doesn't claim this anywhere..the information about this appears to be extremely limited...

I think it was more than Carr.. I have read many places from other FBI agents, but I'd have to go and find it.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4098 on: October 11, 2018, 04:54:33 PM »
The bank was pretty specific outlining everything...as I suggested earlier, someone needs to try and contact Burns or Grinell..
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4099 on: October 11, 2018, 05:12:14 PM »
Below is what FBI agent William Baker told the Oregonian on Feb 13 1980.

Alluded to at CitizenSleuths.com

Quote:
"Baker said the money was bundled into packages of several sizes at the time of the hijacking. "to make it appear that it was randomly done, as if it was done in a hurry." Because of that the actual amount could not be estimated, he said."


 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4100 on: October 11, 2018, 05:35:58 PM »
Isn't Baker working with Colbert? let me see if he can be contacted....
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4101 on: October 11, 2018, 06:15:00 PM »
Tom already responded....not good news..

Hey, buddy!

When I sat down Bill Baker on camera (His soundbites are in the "New Doc Video Pitch" on home page), he had no recollection on anything involving the money preps.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4102 on: October 11, 2018, 07:05:21 PM »
Frank J Burns is out of the question...

Frank J. BURNS Beloved husband, father and grandfather, passed away April 29, 2003, two weeks short of his 87th Birthday. Frank retired as a Special Investigator for SeaFirst Bank.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4103 on: October 11, 2018, 07:16:25 PM »
Like I said a few days ago, I'm not certain that reports of resizing anything--packets or bundles--are accurate because it makes no sense. Furthermore, I asked what documentation backs up this claim. A newspaper report is highly suspect regardless of who the quote is attributed to.

Finally, FLYJACK keeps putting forward the notion that the packets couldn't have been resized because the three packets on Tena Bar consisted of 100 bills each. This is a major assumption. After all: How do you know that each packet had exactly 100 bills? And, where do you get that every pack was resized? Perhaps a healthy percentage of the packets weren't resized even if resizing was actually done.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4104 on: October 11, 2018, 07:18:24 PM »
at the moment, it appears only the FBI is making statements of tampering with any of the money.....the whole point of this would be to better explain how 3 packets/bundles arrived together....
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 07:18:45 PM by Shutter »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4105 on: October 11, 2018, 09:04:04 PM »
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Like I said a few days ago, I'm not certain that reports of resizing anything--packets or bundles--are accurate because it makes no sense. Furthermore, I asked what documentation backs up this claim. A newspaper report is highly suspect regardless of who the quote is attributed to.

Finally, FLYJACK keeps putting forward the notion that the packets couldn't have been resized because the three packets on Tena Bar consisted of 100 bills each. This is a major assumption. After all: How do you know that each packet had exactly 100 bills? And, where do you get that every pack was resized? Perhaps a healthy percentage of the packets weren't resized even if resizing was actually done.

All information and FBI agent comments suggests they were in 100's but they were also in a bill order that matched the original micro. So, they couldn't have been resized, the order would have changed.

Resizing the "packets" doesn't really make sense, they are only 1/2 inch thick, to make it look "random sized" you'd have to remove a significant amount, not 10 or 20 bills. Too small and it wouldn't hold together.

Something just isn't right here..  The simplest explanation that fits all the evidence is that the "packets x 100" were put into random sized "bundles".

There may be other explanations. I looked at a few but they are very speculative. That is why I asked...

As Shutter stated,, Ultimately the point is to determine how the 3 "packets" arrived together.

.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4106 on: October 11, 2018, 11:34:42 PM »
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Quote
If the Bank employee random/resized the "bundles"

to date, the way I see this is no evidence other than Carr stating the bundles were different exist...the bank doesn't claim this anywhere..the information about this appears to be extremely limited...

I think that's correct - Carr is the sole source for 'bundles were different sizes' but again that supposedly comes from the bank employee who assembled the bundles.
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4107 on: October 11, 2018, 11:37:14 PM »
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Quote
If the Bank employee random/resized the "bundles"

to date, the way I see this is no evidence other than Carr stating the bundles were different exist...the bank doesn't claim this anywhere..the information about this appears to be extremely limited...

I think that's correct - Carr is the sole source for 'bundles were different sizes' but again that supposedly comes from the bank employee who assembled the bundles.

FBI agent William Baker told the Oregonian on Feb 13 1980.

Quote:
"Baker said the money was bundled into packages of several sizes at the time of the hijacking. "to make it appear that it was randomly done, as if it was done in a hurry." Because of that the actual amount could not be estimated, he said."
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4108 on: October 11, 2018, 11:38:34 PM »
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Carr in 2007

As for the "shocking " information about the money, I spoke with the individual who carried the money from the bank to the airport the night of the hijacking. When I was talking with him he recounted that they were in the vault running the money through the counting machine and strapping the bundles. I didn't catch it at, first but later in our conversation I caught on to the strapping part and said, "wait a minute." "you were strapping the $20.00 bundles with $2,000 paper straps?" He said "yes" and I almost fell out of my chair.

So I then started putting calls into Brian Ingram. He called me back and we spoke about the discovery of the money. What I found was that the money was not recovered near the water but about 20 to 40 feet from the edge. He said he found it in an area that had recently been covered in water. So I thought, "well not really much of a difference." I then asked for the details about the condition of the money when he found it and he confirmed, after speaking with his parents, that the money absolutely had rubber bands around the bundles. This makes sense because there is no way paper straps would have kept the money together over the years.

So this all means, on face value, that if the money given to Cooper by the bank had paper straps and the found money had rubber bands....... well you could see how I was a bit perplexed. This would mean that either Cooper lived and repackaged the money or someone found the money and repackaged it. Which would be "par for the course" with regard to this case.

I then went back and re-interviewed the bank security manager and found out that he wasn't directly involved in packaging the money, only carrying it to the airport. He was relaying what their normal procedure was for processing and packaging money for shipment.

The funds that were given to Cooper were not pulled from their circulating cash but from a security fund that was prepackaged for these types of incidents. This money was not strapped because the bank did not want any subjects to know where it came from so it was packaged with rubber bands. My head was spinning for a few days until I could get it straight.

Can you cite the source url for this ... at Dropzone?

Im glad to see this correction as regards at the water's edge vs 40 ft up the incline: "So I then started putting calls into Brian Ingram. He called me back and we spoke about the discovery of the money. What I found was that the money was not recovered near the water but about 20 to 40 feet from the edge. He said he found it in an area that had recently been covered in water. 
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4109 on: October 11, 2018, 11:43:38 PM »
I will have to find it...I'll get it tomorrow...trying to resolve the server issues...