Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tina Bar Money Find  (Read 494201 times)

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4995 on: August 14, 2020, 05:37:31 PM »
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R99-
As an academic, I get told I am wrong ALL THE TIME. It’s literally part of my job. When Tom’s paper was released, the first thing I did was accept that perhaps my theory was wrong, and re-think based on new evidence. I didn’t whine. I didn’t twist the new evidence to fit my narrative.

Also, you have provided no evidence that “all the debris” ends up on the west side of the Columbia other than anecdotal evidence. I was hoping you’d provide a peer-reviewed study or a quote by a published hydrologist. As it stands now, the best you can say is “Take my word for it; I’ve been there.”

EU -
“ I value an intelligent and robust discussion.”

Thanks for the laugh because you have demonstrated you have no desire to have “discussion” unless it involves people telling you how smart you are and how on target your theories are. You seem incapable of having a factual back and forth, so when someone like georger pushes back on your ideas, you get your panties in a twist.

You are not unique in that regard. I have researched the Zodiac case for years and there are lots of people who cheerlead for a particular suspect or theory and no evidence to the contrary would dissuade them. It’s like being a Cleveland Browns fan. No matter how many games they lose, people will still root for them.

If you were truly interested in robust discussion, you’d start with the facts, form a theory, and then be willing to change your mind. Not form a theory, find facts that fit and dismiss or explain away those that don’t, and then rage at those who point out your theory’s flaws.

I’ve said enough about this topic. I won’t contribute anymore to this message board’s toxicity. I’ll only discuss facts.

Chaucer, you apparently have not been paying attention.  I didn't whine and I didn't twist TK's evidence to fit my narrative.

In fact, I "thanked" TK for his post.  And I objected when Georger tried to hijack TK's work and do one of Georger's famous re-interpretations of that work.

"I'll only discuss facts.", please do that.
You seem to have taken my original post personally. Did you stop to consider that it wasn’t directed at you?

A kicked dog barks?

You need to read your own posts.  You did direct the post I quoted partly to me and partly to EU.  Are you aware that water runs downhill?
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4996 on: August 14, 2020, 07:15:30 PM »
Meanwhile, your have still not provided any evidence (besides “trust me, I’ve been there”) to prove that all the debris ends up on the western bank of the river and debris doesn’t wash up on to Tena Bar.

Peer-reviewed studies?
TED talk by a hydrologist?
Quotes from a park ranger or potamologist?

Anything? Anything? Beuller? Beuller?
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4997 on: August 15, 2020, 12:02:09 AM »
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Meanwhile, your have still not provided any evidence (besides “trust me, I’ve been there”) to prove that all the debris ends up on the western bank of the river and debris doesn’t wash up on to Tena Bar.

Peer-reviewed studies?
TED talk by a hydrologist?
Quotes from a park ranger or potamologist?

Anything? Anything? Beuller? Beuller?

Chaucer,

Do you have any sources for your claim that I said "trust me, I've been there"?  Any peer reviewed sources?  Studies by linguists?  Articles in Mad Magazine?  As you damn well know, I have not made any such statement.

I am standing by my earlier statements about the river flow in the Caterpillar Island and Tina Bar areas.  If you disagree with them how about giving some reasons.  Preferably peer reviewed reasons in order to meet your own standards.  If you are actually an "academic" as you claim, rather than just another blowhard, you should be able to easily come up with reasons.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4998 on: August 15, 2020, 12:08:06 AM »
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Meanwhile, your have still not provided any evidence (besides “trust me, I’ve been there”) to prove that all the debris ends up on the western bank of the river and debris doesn’t wash up on to Tena Bar.

Peer-reviewed studies?
TED talk by a hydrologist?
Quotes from a park ranger or potamologist?

Anything? Anything? Beuller? Beuller?

Regardless of who said it or why, The statement " all debris ends up on the western bank of the Columbia and no debris washes up on Tena Bar", is nonsense.

I dont know why or how this has even come up. Maybe this forum is haunted?  :rofl:
« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 12:08:51 AM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4999 on: August 15, 2020, 12:10:34 AM »
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Meanwhile, your have still not provided any evidence (besides “trust me, I’ve been there”) to prove that all the debris ends up on the western bank of the river and debris doesn’t wash up on to Tena Bar.

Peer-reviewed studies?
TED talk by a hydrologist?
Quotes from a park ranger or potamologist?

Anything? Anything? Beuller? Beuller?

Chaucer,

Do you have any sources for your claim that I said "trust me, I've been there"?  Any peer reviewed sources?  Studies by linguists?  Articles in Mad Magazine?  As you damn well know, I have not made any such statement.

I am standing by my earlier statements about the river flow in the Caterpillar Island and Tina Bar areas.  If you disagree with them how about giving some reasons.  Preferably peer reviewed reasons in order to meet your own standards.  If you are actually an "academic" as you claim, rather than just another blowhard, you should be able to easily come up with reasons.

And YOU provide the same!  Stop the subterfuge.
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5000 on: August 15, 2020, 12:30:18 AM »
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Meanwhile, your have still not provided any evidence (besides “trust me, I’ve been there”) to prove that all the debris ends up on the western bank of the river and debris doesn’t wash up on to Tena Bar.

Peer-reviewed studies?
TED talk by a hydrologist?
Quotes from a park ranger or potamologist?

Anything? Anything? Beuller? Beuller?

Regardless of who said it or why, The statement " all debris ends up on the western bank of the Columbia and no debris washes up on Tena Bar", is nonsense.

I dont know why or how this has even come up. Maybe this forum is haunted?  :rofl:

For the record, I did not say that.  You should stick to facts.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5001 on: August 15, 2020, 11:01:09 AM »
If we assume the money would wash downhill how did the money arrive on Tbar shoreline outside the straight line the money would travel downstream if Cooper was in the woods on Caterpillar? not to mention getting through all the trees and brush. exactly how high was the water on Caterpillar during these floods? what strength does flood waters have in moving the money that would no longer float?

What is the known fact of the bag deterioration time frame including being wrapped with paracord?
What proof do we have the flood could move a body or a skeleton? certainly not 6 months after the fact.

I would think the deterioration of the bag would be slower being somewhat protected by the woods. less direct sunlight to degrade. where was the bag if Cooper died..beside him, under him etc.?

Can we really lock in exactly where the money was and guarantee no diatoms got on the bills other than 72 and 74? was the location at the bottom of record highs or the top of record high tides? how far do you dig before hitting water..each time the tide rises the depth would decrease.

Why would Cooper walk almost 10 miles with 20 lbs bypassing dozens of locations close to where he landed to bury the bag? then leave it for 6 months, minimum outside the search area. if Cooper knew the area why not the northern tip of Tbar or further north? he plants it right on a place of business with lots of activity including fishing and digging holes, fire pits etc.?

I agree that going there helps. it also helps when you are in the right location which R99 was not and was told it was wrong for years by me and not believed.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5002 on: August 15, 2020, 11:34:27 AM »
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Why would Cooper walk almost 10 miles with 20 lbs bypassing dozens of locations close to where he landed to bury the bag? then leave it for 6 months, minimum outside the search area. if Cooper knew the area why not the northern tip of Tbar or further north? he plants it right on a place of business with lots of activity including fishing and digging holes, fire pits etc.?

I agree that going there helps. it also helps when you are in the right location which R99 was not and was told it was wrong for years by me and not believed.

I answered these exact questions above. Indeed, it makes perfect sense.

Also, the estimated nine mile walk would have taken probably no more than 2 1/2 hours. Remember, DBC wants to get as far away from his landing zone as quickly as possible lest the authorities arrive with police dogs ready to sniff him and his buried money out.

And yes, identifying the precise money find spot--which I did in January 2019--is now absolutely critical as we can see by virtue of our discussions about flooding in May/June '72 and '74.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5003 on: August 15, 2020, 12:00:38 PM »
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If we assume the money would wash downhill how did the money arrive on Tbar shoreline outside the straight line the money would travel downstream if Cooper was in the woods on Caterpillar? not to mention getting through all the trees and brush. exactly how high was the water on Caterpillar during these floods? what strength does flood waters have in moving the money that would no longer float?

What is the known fact of the bag deterioration time frame including being wrapped with paracord?
What proof do we have the flood could move a body or a skeleton? certainly not 6 months after the fact.

I would think the deterioration of the bag would be slower being somewhat protected by the woods. less direct sunlight to degrade. where was the bag if Cooper died..beside him, under him etc.?

Can we really lock in exactly where the money was and guarantee no diatoms got on the bills other than 72 and 74? was the location at the bottom of record highs or the top of record high tides? how far do you dig before hitting water..each time the tide rises the depth would decrease.

Why would Cooper walk almost 10 miles with 20 lbs bypassing dozens of locations close to where he landed to bury the bag? then leave it for 6 months, minimum outside the search area. if Cooper knew the area why not the northern tip of Tbar or further north? he plants it right on a place of business with lots of activity including fishing and digging holes, fire pits etc.?

I agree that going there helps. it also helps when you are in the right location which R99 was not and was told it was wrong for years by me and not believed.

Shutter, your first comments above have been discussed at length here over the years and I see no reason to repeat them.

But your last sentence mystifies me.  What do you mean I was not in the right location?  Right location for what?  And when did you tell me that I was not in the right location for whatever?
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5004 on: August 15, 2020, 12:02:34 PM »
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Why would Cooper walk almost 10 miles with 20 lbs bypassing dozens of locations close to where he landed to bury the bag? then leave it for 6 months, minimum outside the search area. if Cooper knew the area why not the northern tip of Tbar or further north? he plants it right on a place of business with lots of activity including fishing and digging holes, fire pits etc.?

I agree that going there helps. it also helps when you are in the right location which R99 was not and was told it was wrong for years by me and not believed.

I answered these exact questions above. Indeed, it makes perfect sense.

Also, the estimated nine mile walk would have taken probably no more than 2 1/2 hours. Remember, DBC wants to get as far away from his landing zone as quickly as possible lest the authorities arrive with police dogs ready to sniff him and his buried money out.

And yes, identifying the precise money find spot--which I did in January 2019--is now absolutely critical as we can see by virtue of our discussions about flooding in May/June '72 and '74.

EU, are you willing to reveal the GPS coordinates of the money find location that you have identified?
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5005 on: August 15, 2020, 12:35:13 PM »
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Why would Cooper walk almost 10 miles with 20 lbs bypassing dozens of locations close to where he landed to bury the bag? then leave it for 6 months, minimum outside the search area. if Cooper knew the area why not the northern tip of Tbar or further north? he plants it right on a place of business with lots of activity including fishing and digging holes, fire pits etc.?

I agree that going there helps. it also helps when you are in the right location which R99 was not and was told it was wrong for years by me and not believed.

I answered these exact questions above. Indeed, it makes perfect sense.

Also, the estimated nine mile walk would have taken probably no more than 2 1/2 hours. Remember, DBC wants to get as far away from his landing zone as quickly as possible lest the authorities arrive with police dogs ready to sniff him and his buried money out.

And yes, identifying the precise money find spot--which I did in January 2019--is now absolutely critical as we can see by virtue of our discussions about flooding in May/June '72 and '74.

EU, are you willing to reveal the GPS coordinates of the money find location that you have identified?

45.718551, -122.759407
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RFK
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5006 on: August 15, 2020, 12:37:15 PM »
Quote
Shutter, your first comments above have been discussed at length here over the years and I see no reason to repeat them.


Why are you here then on a discussion forum? lots of people have answers and have given them such as the money location I've pointed out years prior to 2019.

I went into great detail with various photo's showing Tom's location was incorrect. it's not behind the containment pond it's further north.

I asked simple questions and don't need a Blevins response!
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5007 on: August 15, 2020, 01:04:37 PM »
My conclusions were made back in 2016 regarding the location of the money. this includes showing a photo of the containment pond in the background away from the actual money location. I showed multiple photo's of the tree's and where they were located in reference to the money location going by helicopter video, FBI photo's and especially when Brian shows the location in a photo where the money was..the main give away was the angled road/path leading to the river..

Another thing pointed out in 2016 was the fact that I believe Tom went by a zig zag path to help locate the position. the problem here was there was two similar zig zags one on each side of the angled path. the actual correct one was north of the path..
« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 01:12:01 PM by Shutter »
 
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Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5008 on: August 15, 2020, 01:20:00 PM »
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My conclusions were made back in 2016 regarding the location of the money. this includes showing a photo of the containment pond in the background away from the actual money location. I showed multiple photo's of the tree's and where they were located in reference to the money location going by helicopter video, FBI photo's and especially when Brian shows the location in a photo where the money was..the main give away was the angled road/path leading to the river..

Another thing pointed out in 2016 was the fact that I believe Tom went by a zig zag path to help locate the position. the problem here was there was two similar zig zags one on each side of the angled path. the actual correct one was north of the path..

Much of what you just stated is correct...in particular, there formerly being two curved parts of the road.

The trees are no longer around. In fact, the tilted tree near the burial spot is completely gone.

The area has changed a lot. In fact, it really required me spending a lot of time on Tena Bar itself walking the entire area and referencing old photos to clearly visualize what still existed and what had changed.

That said, the spot I identified is 100% accurate within 10 feet.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 01:20:46 PM by EU »
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5009 on: August 15, 2020, 01:50:22 PM »
Quote
But your last sentence mystifies me.  What do you mean I was not in the right location?  Right location for what?  And when did you tell me that I was not in the right location for whatever?


Back in 2016 you continued to state the coords and where they were in reference to the containment pond and the fact of "being there" that's why I kept telling you the coords and location was incorrect if using those coords. you don't have to be there to see it. now, if you go by Tom's coords at home or on location you will still be in the WRONG place..nothing mystifying here...I still believe the zig zag/curved road was a factor that tricked Tom..it's hard to get a location of landscape 30/40 years after the fact..
« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 01:54:45 PM by Shutter »