Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tina Bar Money Find  (Read 493765 times)

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2196
  • Thanked: 300 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4800 on: May 17, 2020, 11:47:14 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I've picked up after kids before. Leave a stack of rubber banded Monopoly money in a kid's room, come back later and see if you find it looking similarly "torqued."

This is wet money just under the surface of a beach where people go for recreation. Close your eyes, apply an imaginary footstep in the sand, right on top of the money. Keep your mind's eye on that money. As you apply your weight, feel your foot slide out and to the side a bit, taking the closest money with it, then apply one last bit of force forward as you push off with the ball of your foot. What happened to the money?

I'm not claiming this is exactly what did this to the bills, but I don't think it has to be complex.

My point is, the money packet is not torqued. Rather, it appears that there is one un-torqued packet on top of another un-torqued packet.

Also, Tena Bar is not--and was not--that popular where every square foot of the beach was being trampled upon by beach goers. Not to mention, the money was probably originally buried at least a foot or two below the surface.

What is a money "packet"?  Are there twelve money packets in this photo, or do these groups for into x-number of your "money packet" s ?  How many packets" did these 12 groups come from?

WHAT IS A "PACKET" ?  People need to know what a packet is!  Its like needing to know what a "mammal" is in biology. Terms either have meaning or they don't !   ::) 

If people/professionals called the  Ingram money "bundles" how and why did you rename them PACKETS?  Who gave you permission to rename evidence in the Cooper case? 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 11:51:09 PM by georger »
 

Offline Unsurelock

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
  • Thanked: 39 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4801 on: May 18, 2020, 12:04:25 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I've picked up after kids before. Leave a stack of rubber banded Monopoly money in a kid's room, come back later and see if you find it looking similarly "torqued."

This is wet money just under the surface of a beach where people go for recreation. Close your eyes, apply an imaginary footstep in the sand, right on top of the money. Keep your mind's eye on that money. As you apply your weight, feel your foot slide out and to the side a bit, taking the closest money with it, then apply one last bit of force forward as you push off with the ball of your foot. What happened to the money?

I'm not claiming this is exactly what did this to the bills, but I don't think it has to be complex.

My point is, the money packet is not torqued. Rather, it appears that there is one un-torqued packet on top of another un-torqued packet.

Also, Tena Bar is not--and was not--that popular where every square foot of the beach was being trampled upon by beach goers. Not to mention, the money was probably originally buried at least a foot or two below the surface.

What is a money "packet"?  Are there twelve money packets in this photo, or do these groups for into x-number of your "money packet" s ?  How many packets" did these 12 groups come from?

WHAT IS A "PACKET" ?  People need to know what a packet is!  Its like needing to know what a "mammal" is in biology. Terms either have meaning or they don't !   ::) 

If people/professionals called the  Ingram money "bundles" how and why did you rename them PACKETS?  Who gave you permission to rename evidence in the Cooper case?

Nope. Not doing this again. You're not pulling this. Go away.
 
The following users thanked this post: haggarknew

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2196
  • Thanked: 300 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4802 on: May 18, 2020, 12:13:31 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I've picked up after kids before. Leave a stack of rubber banded Monopoly money in a kid's room, come back later and see if you find it looking similarly "torqued."

This is wet money just under the surface of a beach where people go for recreation. Close your eyes, apply an imaginary footstep in the sand, right on top of the money. Keep your mind's eye on that money. As you apply your weight, feel your foot slide out and to the side a bit, taking the closest money with it, then apply one last bit of force forward as you push off with the ball of your foot. What happened to the money?

I'm not claiming this is exactly what did this to the bills, but I don't think it has to be complex.

My point is, the money packet is not torqued. Rather, it appears that there is one un-torqued packet on top of another un-torqued packet.

Also, Tena Bar is not--and was not--that popular where every square foot of the beach was being trampled upon by beach goers. Not to mention, the money was probably originally buried at least a foot or two below the surface.

What is a money "packet"?  Are there twelve money packets in this photo, or do these groups for into x-number of your "money packet" s ?  How many packets" did these 12 groups come from?

WHAT IS A "PACKET" ?  People need to know what a packet is!  Its like needing to know what a "mammal" is in biology. Terms either have meaning or they don't !   ::) 

If people/professionals called the  Ingram money "bundles" how and why did you rename them PACKETS?  Who gave you permission to rename evidence in the Cooper case?

Nope. Not doing this again. You're not pulling this. Go away.

So you know what Ulis means by "packet" but wont tell us?  And Ulis wont tell us. Hmmm.

So as far as you are concerned you dont wish people to know? This is private somehow? Is a bundle and a packet the same thing? Why are you obstructing knowledge and discussion of the Cooper case, in a vital area of the case? 

Have you some information that paper straps were involved in how the money was prepared for Cooper? Why is this issue generating such hostility?

Or is this a "takeover" without having to discuss evidence .... a takeover of this forum, Dropzone, and The Cooper Vortex?

Will it all be revealed to the masses at Cooper Con 2020 ?  :rofl:   
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 12:28:02 AM by georger »
 

Offline Unsurelock

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
  • Thanked: 39 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4803 on: May 18, 2020, 12:35:49 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
My point is, the money packet is not torqued. Rather, it appears that there is one un-torqued packet on top of another un-torqued packet.

Also, Tena Bar is not--and was not--that popular where every square foot of the beach was being trampled upon by beach goers. Not to mention, the money was probably originally buried at least a foot or two below the surface.

Please see attached article, listing Tina Bar as a "high use public area" by the Department of Ecology, along with Frenchman's Bar.  For reference, please see second attachment of an article referencing a head count of 33 fishermen on Frenchman's Bar. And with 3,000 days between the hijacking and the Ingram find, I'm gonna say there were some footsteps on that beach.

As far as the torque thing, sure, could be.
 
The following users thanked this post: georger

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2196
  • Thanked: 300 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4804 on: May 18, 2020, 12:42:09 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I've picked up after kids before. Leave a stack of rubber banded Monopoly money in a kid's room, come back later and see if you find it looking similarly "torqued."

This is wet money just under the surface of a beach where people go for recreation. Close your eyes, apply an imaginary footstep in the sand, right on top of the money. Keep your mind's eye on that money. As you apply your weight, feel your foot slide out and to the side a bit, taking the closest money with it, then apply one last bit of force forward as you push off with the ball of your foot. What happened to the money?

I'm not claiming this is exactly what did this to the bills, but I don't think it has to be complex.

My point is, the money packet is not torqued. Rather, it appears that there is one un-torqued packet on top of another un-torqued packet.

Also, Tena Bar is not--and was not--that popular where every square foot of the beach was being trampled upon by beach goers. Not to mention, the money was probably originally buried at least a foot or two below the surface.

Mr. Ulis, was it you who told us there were no silt deposits found between the bills? Somebody did.

I just finished reading an FBI report that confirms silt deposits were found between the bills, and an FBI lab report that examined those silts for "mineralogy".

?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 12:42:30 AM by georger »
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2196
  • Thanked: 300 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4805 on: May 18, 2020, 12:51:48 AM »
The only words used to refer to the Money in the Palmer Report and its related reports are the words: packages, small packages, and bundles. The word "packet" is not found in any of those formal reports.

Does that prove all of these educated worldly people were ignorant of formal banking terms and how the money had been packaged at the SeaFirst bank ? 
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 12:53:43 AM by georger »
 

Offline EU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1457
  • Thanked: 225 times
    • DB  Cooper: The Definitive Investigation of Sheridan Peterson
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4806 on: May 18, 2020, 12:53:06 AM »
A packet is $2,000 in twenties. Brian found three packets.

I have said nothing about silt deposits between bills. That said, there should be grains of sand and other things between some of these bills because they were exposed to water in some manner which means they expanded then dried. In fact, when I analyzed 377's twenty I estimated that the bill had shrunk about 10%
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2196
  • Thanked: 300 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4807 on: May 18, 2020, 12:59:30 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
A packet is $2,000 in twenties. Brian found three packets.

I have said nothing about silt deposits between bills. That said, there should be grains of sand and other things between some of these bills because they were exposed to water in some manner which means they expanded then dried. In fact, when I analyzed 377's twenty I estimated that the bill had shrunk about 10%

Is that your definition, a bank definition, FJ's definition, or what? The word packet doesnt occur one time in all of the FBI docs on the money find I have. But the words packages, small packages, and bundles are used often.

Quite honestly we used to use the word bundle through all of the old discussion at DZ, including Carr. FJ comes along and suddenly its "packet" then you start using the word "packet". Is this a shift in consciousness or an actual new piece of information that tells something we never knew before?  Or is the whole thing just some game people are now playing with words?

Obviously there is a conflict btwn how FJ says the money was prepared for Cooper and how Carr/bank employee say it was prepared. Cant you ask your friend Carr? Ask Brian. . . .  Brian and I and his Mother went through this discussion with Carr, years ago. I thought the issue was resolved until FJ came along... 
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 01:08:32 AM by georger »
 

Offline Unsurelock

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
  • Thanked: 39 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4808 on: May 18, 2020, 08:58:29 AM »
Eric, don't even respond about the packets.

Back under your bridge, now. Run along.
 
The following users thanked this post: EU, haggarknew

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2196
  • Thanked: 300 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4809 on: May 18, 2020, 02:09:31 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Eric, don't even respond about the packets.

Back under your bridge, now. Run along.

EU likes your post.  Robert Blevins likes your post.   FLYJACK likes your post.  Jo Weber likes your post.   Galen Cook likes your post.  Grey Cop likes your post.  You are on a roll!   :offtopicman:
 

Offline haggarknew

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Thanked: 22 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4810 on: May 19, 2020, 06:05:30 AM »
As per torque posts... If someone's weight from stepping on them could do this, what would the weight from the heavy equipment do to the bills? (whatever machinery they used to spread the dredge spoils)
 
The following users thanked this post: Unsurelock

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2196
  • Thanked: 300 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4811 on: May 19, 2020, 01:41:57 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As per torque posts... If someone's weight from stepping on them could do this, what would the weight from the heavy equipment do to the bills? (whatever machinery they used to spread the dredge spoils)

The dredge would probably pulverize most of the bagged money ... the heavy equipment was only a tractor and blade pushing spoils around, evening them. A small portion of the money that survived the dredge could get buried very easily and not even be seen, pushed in whatever direction the tractor was pushing things. Pushed North in one of its passes? It takes days for fresh spoils to spread out and dry enough to even support a tractor working the spoils. Tractor blades dont dig so much as they move and 'spread' things around, like spreading and evening gravel on a road. (Like what the Amboy guy was doing on his tractor when the Amboy chute was snagged and revealed).

We have reports of 'formless fist sized chucks of organic matter' that people found south of the Ingram site buried at 2+ feet? It's too bad those globs of matter weren't analyzed to see if they were rotted money ? 

The money find is in the same direction as the river flows, north, of the spoil site. (R99/Ulis will give us their usual recitation on that) It would have been helpful had Palmer commented about erosion and directions of erosion flow at the site. No lab work was done in 1980 comparing sand chemistry sand at various sites vs the Ingram find site and the money ... silt and sand particles were found by the FBI lab between the bills (sand particles found were typed) ... 

The money itself shows signs of physical damage, from some source. Hardly anyone has focused on that during all of these years at forums.         
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 03:10:35 PM by georger »
 

Offline Unsurelock

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
  • Thanked: 39 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4812 on: May 19, 2020, 08:09:55 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
As per torque posts... If someone's weight from stepping on them could do this, what would the weight from the heavy equipment do to the bills? (whatever machinery they used to spread the dredge spoils)

The dredge would probably pulverize most of the bagged money ... the heavy equipment was only a tractor and blade pushing spoils around, evening them. A small portion of the money that survived the dredge could get buried very easily and not even be seen, pushed in whatever direction the tractor was pushing things. Pushed North in one of its passes? It takes days for fresh spoils to spread out and dry enough to even support a tractor working the spoils. Tractor blades dont dig so much as they move and 'spread' things around, like spreading and evening gravel on a road. (Like what the Amboy guy was doing on his tractor when the Amboy chute was snagged and revealed).

We have reports of 'formless fist sized chucks of organic matter' that people found south of the Ingram site buried at 2+ feet? It's too bad those globs of matter weren't analyzed to see if they were rotted money ? 

The money find is in the same direction as the river flows, north, of the spoil site. (R99/Ulis will give us their usual recitation on that) It would have been helpful had Palmer commented about erosion and directions of erosion flow at the site. No lab work was done in 1980 comparing sand chemistry sand at various sites vs the Ingram find site and the money ... silt and sand particles were found by the FBI lab between the bills (sand particles found were typed) ... 

The money itself shows signs of physical damage, from some source. Hardly anyone has focused on that during all of these years at forums.       

He wasn't talking about the dredge in that post. He was talking about the heavy equipment that has been on the beach. Worth re-reading.

For the money to have this shape under your circumstances, the bundles would have to have been first perfectly rounded by a stream, then sent through a dredge that pulverized all other cash in the bag but left these three packets all still in their perfect oval shape, not even a tear, then sent them through the air together, still stacked, what, 60 feet up the beach? And covered in a thin layer of sand. THEN the bag remnants would all have to decompose entirely leaving no trace while the money stayed just kinda gross on the outside.

And also, nobody finds any other pulverized money anywhere, for at least the next six years, and only finds it after they find the bundle, although none of the fragments that aren't part of the bundle are anywhere to be found afterwards.

Survey SAYS!!!.....
X
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 08:24:41 PM by Unsurelock »
 

Offline Robert99

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 854
  • Thanked: 99 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4813 on: May 19, 2020, 11:14:59 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

That's is? Just one short, snarky post from Robert and nothing else to say in the subject?

By the way, the direction it flows is to the sea, and that "torque" you mentioned is some kid pivoting in the sand while walking on the beach, on top of the wet money.  Prove me wrong.

Since EU has apparently removed his original post with the diagram, I will just refer you to Figure 7 in the money analysis section of Tom Kaye's web page.  The caption for Figure 7 there reads as follows:

"Figure 7.  Reconstruction of the positions of  the bills in the stack when buried.  The upper left hand corner of this bill shows a stack of fragments which were used in the reconstruction of their positions."

That stack of fragments plus the drawn outline suggests to me that the bills were on top of a stack that was exposed to water flow which would basically be from the bottom of the bills to the top of the bills as shown.  I might add that this is my interpretation and not necessarily that of anyone else.

So the Columbia River flows toward the sea?  Are there exceptions to this?  Are you aware that there is about a 1 to 2 foot tidal action at Tina Bar each day?

To keep this to "one short, snarky post", let me ask you another question.  How about defining "sea level" for us?  I am sure that with your nautical knowledge, you won't have any trouble with the definition.  Anchors aweigh!
 

Offline Unsurelock

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
  • Thanked: 39 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4814 on: May 20, 2020, 12:12:37 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

That's is? Just one short, snarky post from Robert and nothing else to say in the subject?

By the way, the direction it flows is to the sea, and that "torque" you mentioned is some kid pivoting in the sand while walking on the beach, on top of the wet money.  Prove me wrong.

Since EU has apparently removed his original post with the diagram, I will just refer you to Figure 7 in the money analysis section of Tom Kaye's web page.

He hasn't. Take another look.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The caption for Figure 7 there reads as follows:

"Figure 7.  Reconstruction of the positions of  the bills in the stack when buried.  The upper left hand corner of this bill shows a stack of fragments which were used in the reconstruction of their positions."

So by "corner," do you mean the rounded areas of the bills where the corners used to be? Because nobody has ever found a corner of one of these bills.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
That stack of fragments plus the drawn outline suggests to me that the bills were on top of a stack that was exposed to water flow which would basically be from the bottom of the bills to the top of the bills as shown.  I might add that this is my interpretation and not necessarily that of anyone else.

This positioning looks like playing cards spread in a player's hand, revealing the edge of each card only slightly. This can be observed when a magician is spreading cards, or when a student drops his papers, when a book is simply left open. Why would you come to the very specific conclusion that water flow did this, and that something held the bills in place?

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
So the Columbia River flows toward the sea?  Are there exceptions to this?  Are you aware that there is about a 1 to 2 foot tidal action at Tina Bar each day?

In that gravity pulls things to a lower level of potential energy, no there is no exception. But if you have some specific point, like certain geographical spots on a map or different branches of a river or what have you, please demonstrate it instead of asking me to, since you want to keep this to "one short, snarky post."

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
To keep this to "one short, snarky post", let me ask you another question.  How about defining "sea level" for us?  I am sure that with your nautical knowledge, you won't have any trouble with the definition.  Anchors aweigh!

I honestly don't give a shit about the definition of sea level or what credentials you believe you or I have. Either your argument is a good one or it is not. Make one or don't. Defend your statements or don't.  In the meantime, all this "anchors aweigh," "would you like to guess" crap is snarky as hell and you're just proving that I wasn't imagining it.  If you don't want to be called out on being snarky, don't be snarky.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 12:24:24 AM by Unsurelock »
 
The following users thanked this post: georger