Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tina Bar Money Find  (Read 466099 times)

Offline haggarknew

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4650 on: February 14, 2020, 07:00:56 PM »
Wow, a little more expensive than I imagined.  Makes me appreciate 377's generosity even more.  That being said, if it ever came down to it I would be willing to chip in a little toward the purchase of a fragment to be used for testing. I just don't want 377 to feel pressured into volunteering use of his bill for testing purposes. Hopefully the testing doesn't damage the bill too much. Thanks again 377. It is very exciting to think of the possible new information this testing may be leading us to.  One last thought, would Josh Gates be interested in helping purchase a fragment for testing?
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4651 on: February 15, 2020, 05:10:52 AM »
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All,

I have a big update for the Cooper Vortex. 377 let me take additional larger samples from his Cooper bill. I went through the largest of the pieces tonight under the SEM and found additional “hair pin” specimens. While we found these previously, the tubes were not fully intact. The latest ones are in 3D and allowed for species ID. We did not however find any entirely intact specimens with multiple spines.

Georger previously identified the “hair pins” as the diatom Asterionella and Flyjack found out that Asterionella formosa was a winter species and A. japonica was a summer species. Flyjack came up with a list of species in the Columbia and I was able to come up with pictures for most but not all of them. So I caution that new evidence could overthrow these findings but the missing species seem to be rare or contested. It turns out the only species we find on the bill is A. formosa, the winter species. The summer species japonica is WAY different than formosa so there is very little chance of confusion. So this data suggests that the money had a water transport phase that happened in winter and shortly thereafter was buried on Tena Bar.

Here is the reasoning. Given the spindly nature of these things and the fact we find a few of them together, means it is very unlikely that they would penetrate through the sand to get on the bills. One spine might get through but a couple would be highly unlikely to end up in the same place and we found several spots with multiple spines. If they could penetrate the sand we should find winter and summer species but we don’t.  We also know that it is unlikely they came from Brian Ingram washing them off in the river because he was there during the summer.

This is the first evidence based timing information that constrains when the money arrived on Tena Bar and the first new evidence since the money was found that I can think of. It supports a water transport phase before burial. It does not support a human burial on TB. It dismisses the dredge theory because that happens during the summer. It supports the timing of the jump in November but not for Cooper burying the money himself. It supports the western flight path theories where Cooper could have dropped some bundles during the free fall. It completely dismisses the multi-year transport across multiple waterways.

So this new diatom data supports a watery, winter arrival on Tena Bar. Bravo to 377 for letting me tear into his bill, he is now forever locked into the story of DB Cooper. This theory is based on research of several people, it would be good to get that verified. Pics to follow.

Tom Kaye

There is something fundamentally wrong with your post Tom:

Georger previously identified the “hair pins” as the diatom Asterionella and Flyjack found out that Asterionella formosa was a winter species and A. japonica was a summer species.

1. Flyjack is wrong:  Asterionella formosa is NOT a winter species. No diatom is a 'winter species'! Formosa blooms in the Spring according to every modern textbook I can find.

Diatoms in general all bloom in the Spring - NASA schedules photography of the annual "vernal" (Spring) bloom as it spreads north in northern latitudes . . . from the Atlantic to the Pacific and everywhere across North America.

FLYJACK is trying to make some gigantic leap linking a diatom to when the Cooper money arrived at Tina Bar! Lets get the basic facts about diatoms understood first - before leaping off into Asterionella Cooper Money Mutilations and any other related NONSENSE!

Diatom blooms are a Spring event across all species of diatoms. Every textbook on diatoms confirms that!

2.  A. japonica is a Spring bloom species also, not summer.

3. Maturation rates are different for formosa vs japoinica.

Let's just leave it at that. I can supply urls to confirm everything I am saying ... this is not rocket science but common ordinary botanical facts. I dont think there is anything unusual about what your diatom photos show. Everything seen has a logical factual explanation. I am very confident of that. No Cooper Diatom Revelations in the Toast!  ;) 
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 05:17:59 AM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4652 on: February 15, 2020, 01:50:26 PM »
I guess I will post this -

Darren says:

Hey Georger,

I've got an expert on diatoms in the Columbia River lined up to do the show. If you have anything you'd like me to ask just let me know and I'll make sure it gets covered.

Thank you.

Darren

Q* Please identify all of Tom's diatoms. Is a-japonica shown at all in Tom's collection?

Q* when and where is this show? 

Q*   who and what is FLYJACK, The Oracle at Dropzone ?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 02:09:49 PM by georger »
 

Offline Tom Kaye

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4653 on: February 15, 2020, 02:42:44 PM »
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There is something fundamentally wrong with your post Tom:

Georger previously identified the “hair pins” as the diatom Asterionella and Flyjack found out that Asterionella formosa was a winter species and A. japonica was a summer species.

1. Flyjack is wrong:  Asterionella formosa is NOT a winter species. No diatom is a 'winter species'! Formosa blooms in the Spring according to every modern textbook I can find.

Diatoms in general all bloom in the Spring - NASA schedules photography of the annual "vernal" (Spring) bloom as it spreads north in northern latitudes . . . from the Atlantic to the Pacific and everywhere across North America.

FLYJACK is trying to make some gigantic leap linking a diatom to when the Cooper money arrived at Tina Bar! Lets get the basic facts about diatoms understood first - before leaping off into Asterionella Cooper Money Mutilations and any other related NONSENSE!

Diatom blooms are a Spring event across all species of diatoms. Every textbook on diatoms confirms that!

2.  A. japonica is a Spring bloom species also, not summer.

3. Maturation rates are different for formosa vs japoinica.

Let's just leave it at that. I can supply urls to confirm everything I am saying ... this is not rocket science but common ordinary botanical facts. I dont think there is anything unusual about what your diatom photos show. Everything seen has a logical factual explanation. I am very confident of that. No Cooper Diatom Revelations in the Toast!  ;)

Very good Georger I too have been looking into the literature concerning summer / winter species.  It seems the referenced literature to the winter/summer species that Flyjack quotes is unavailable via conventional means. There appears to be no other concrete statements of summer/winter species in any other publications I have looked at. There is a great deal of literature about a spring bloom as you say.

However, I have found an intriguing piece of recent scientific literature on our particular formosa species that holds great promise.  I believe it will allow us to determine in what approximate month the diatoms on the bill grew to maturity. It is serious enough that i am considering writing a full scientific journal paper on it and putting it through peer review. I have never done anything like that for Cooper research before. It will require water samples over the next 6 months so it will not happen quickly.

As I said in my initial post that the statements were based on the research of others and needed to be verified. In any case the diatoms are "speaking" and things are moving forward.

Thanks,

Tom Kaye



 
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4654 on: February 15, 2020, 02:47:26 PM »
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I guess I will post this -

Darren says:

Hey Georger,

I've got an expert on diatoms in the Columbia River lined up to do the show. If you have anything you'd like me to ask just let me know and I'll make sure it gets covered.

Thank you.

Darren

Q* Please identify all of Tom's diatoms. Is a-japonica shown at all in Tom's collection?

Q* when and where is this show? 

Q*   who and what is FLYJACK, The Oracle at Dropzone ?

Darren,  here is another question to ask Flyjack or anyone who is willing to publicly answer it:

Who and where is Georger, the Oracle of all things in Cooper World, and what are his qualifications for all of his pontifications?

ADDENDUM:  Tom Kaye's post just above is EXACTLY the kind of thing Cooper World needs to make any realistic progress in this matter.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 02:53:17 PM by Robert99 »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4655 on: February 15, 2020, 03:46:50 PM »
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I guess I will post this -

Darren says:

Hey Georger,

I've got an expert on diatoms in the Columbia River lined up to do the show. If you have anything you'd like me to ask just let me know and I'll make sure it gets covered.

Thank you.

Darren

Q* Please identify all of Tom's diatoms. Is a-japonica shown at all in Tom's collection?

Q* when and where is this show? 

Q*   who and what is FLYJACK, The Oracle at Dropzone ?

Darren,  here is another question to ask Flyjack or anyone who is willing to publicly answer it:

Who and where is Georger, the Oracle of all things in Cooper World, and what are his qualifications for all of his pontifications?

ADDENDUM:  Tom Kaye's post just above is EXACTLY the kind of thing Cooper World needs to make any realistic progress in this matter.

Why dont you do something constructive for a change ?
..........................

'The reason diatoms are a common tool to match water environments is because of the variability of their populations are predictable and constant, the organisms can be identified by using the light microscope, and their silica cell walls allow for preservation.

Diatoms are unicellular eukaryotic microalgae that play important ecological roles on a global scale. Diatoms are responsible for 20% of global carbon fixation and 40% of marine primary productivity. Thus they are major contributors to climate change processes, and form a substantial basis of the marine food chain.

For example, the microscopic content of the water, which will include diatoms, will pass into the blood as well. The detection of diatoms in the organs can contribute to a diagnosis of death by drowning, a process referred to as the 'diatom test'.

While diatoms traditionally have been used to diagnose death by drowning, research is unravelling their huge potential for use as trace evidence in a range of forensic investigations. ... Their microscopic size and presence in standing and flowing water means they are often inhaled and swallowed during drowning. Freshwater diatoms are a key component of the Water Framework Directive (WFD) classifications of lakes and rivers and because their sensitivity to nutrient levels are very useful indicators of eutrophication. Diatoms can also be used to detect other environmental pressures such as increased acidity.

Cell division: The zygote sheds its silica theca and grows into a large sphere covered by an organic membrane, the auxospore. A new diatom cell of maximum size, the initial cell, forms within the auxospore thus beginning a new generation.

Diatoms found on an item can reveal something about the history of that item, due to the predictable biological processes diatoms go through, annually.

The collective presence or absence and status of diatoms in a sample, can help determine the history and location(s) of that item.'''
 
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 04:05:37 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4656 on: February 15, 2020, 04:23:09 PM »
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I guess I will post this -

Darren says:

Hey Georger,

I've got an expert on diatoms in the Columbia River lined up to do the show. If you have anything you'd like me to ask just let me know and I'll make sure it gets covered.

Thank you.

Darren

Q* Please identify all of Tom's diatoms. Is a-japonica shown at all in Tom's collection?

Q* when and where is this show? 

Q*   who and what is FLYJACK, The Oracle at Dropzone ?

Darren,  here is another question to ask Flyjack or anyone who is willing to publicly answer it:

Who and where is Georger, the Oracle of all things in Cooper World, and what are his qualifications for all of his pontifications?

ADDENDUM:  Tom Kaye's post just above is EXACTLY the kind of thing Cooper World needs to make any realistic progress in this matter.

Why dont you do something constructive for a change ?
..........................

'The reason diatoms are a common tool to match water environments is because of the variability of their populations are predictable and constant, the organisms can be identified by using the light microscope, and their silica cell walls allow for preservation.

Diatoms are unicellular eukaryotic microalgae that play important ecological roles on a global scale. Diatoms are responsible for 20% of global carbon fixation and 40% of marine primary productivity. Thus they are major contributors to climate change processes, and form a substantial basis of the marine food chain.

For example, the microscopic content of the water, which will include diatoms, will pass into the blood as well. The detection of diatoms in the organs can contribute to a diagnosis of death by drowning, a process referred to as the 'diatom test'.

While diatoms traditionally have been used to diagnose death by drowning, research is unravelling their huge potential for use as trace evidence in a range of forensic investigations. ... Their microscopic size and presence in standing and flowing water means they are often inhaled and swallowed during drowning. Freshwater diatoms are a key component of the Water Framework Directive (WFD) classifications of lakes and rivers and because their sensitivity to nutrient levels are very useful indicators of eutrophication. Diatoms can also be used to detect other environmental pressures such as increased acidity.

Cell division: The zygote sheds its silica theca and grows into a large sphere covered by an organic membrane, the auxospore. A new diatom cell of maximum size, the initial cell, forms within the auxospore thus beginning a new generation.

Diatoms found on an item can reveal something about the history of that item, due to the predictable biological processes diatoms go through, annually.

The collective presence or absence and status of diatoms in a sample, can help determine the history and location(s) of that item.'''

Your post describes why Tom Kaye's proposed publication, and the work leading up to it, is so important.  While waiting for it, perhaps you could find something equally constructive to do.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4657 on: February 16, 2020, 12:31:38 AM »
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I guess I will post this -

Darren says:

Hey Georger,

I've got an expert on diatoms in the Columbia River lined up to do the show. If you have anything you'd like me to ask just let me know and I'll make sure it gets covered.

Thank you.

Darren

Q* Please identify all of Tom's diatoms. Is a-japonica shown at all in Tom's collection?

Q* when and where is this show? 

Q*   who and what is FLYJACK, The Oracle at Dropzone ?

Darren,  here is another question to ask Flyjack or anyone who is willing to publicly answer it:

Who and where is Georger, the Oracle of all things in Cooper World, and what are his qualifications for all of his pontifications?

ADDENDUM:  Tom Kaye's post just above is EXACTLY the kind of thing Cooper World needs to make any realistic progress in this matter.

Why dont you do something constructive for a change ?
..........................

'The reason diatoms are a common tool to match water environments is because of the variability of their populations are predictable and constant, the organisms can be identified by using the light microscope, and their silica cell walls allow for preservation.

Diatoms are unicellular eukaryotic microalgae that play important ecological roles on a global scale. Diatoms are responsible for 20% of global carbon fixation and 40% of marine primary productivity. Thus they are major contributors to climate change processes, and form a substantial basis of the marine food chain.

For example, the microscopic content of the water, which will include diatoms, will pass into the blood as well. The detection of diatoms in the organs can contribute to a diagnosis of death by drowning, a process referred to as the 'diatom test'.

While diatoms traditionally have been used to diagnose death by drowning, research is unravelling their huge potential for use as trace evidence in a range of forensic investigations. ... Their microscopic size and presence in standing and flowing water means they are often inhaled and swallowed during drowning. Freshwater diatoms are a key component of the Water Framework Directive (WFD) classifications of lakes and rivers and because their sensitivity to nutrient levels are very useful indicators of eutrophication. Diatoms can also be used to detect other environmental pressures such as increased acidity.

Cell division: The zygote sheds its silica theca and grows into a large sphere covered by an organic membrane, the auxospore. A new diatom cell of maximum size, the initial cell, forms within the auxospore thus beginning a new generation.

Diatoms found on an item can reveal something about the history of that item, due to the predictable biological processes diatoms go through, annually.

The collective presence or absence and status of diatoms in a sample, can help determine the history and location(s) of that item.'''

Your post describes why Tom Kaye's proposed publication, and the work leading up to it, is so important.  While waiting for it, perhaps you could find something equally constructive to do.

You are one cheeky . . . So you are running Tom's life now too in addition to running Cooperlandt!   :)  When do you find time for all your 'cleansing' and 'purification' duties?   :rofl:

You also fail to mention 377 and the risk he is taking with his property, but of course Tom is careful and considerate so 377's interests are in good hands. But 377 also has an interest in this whole matter, a legitimate interest. Are you running 377's interests also?

I will leave it at that for the sake of the children in the room!  It's getting pretty deep in here ... for us sinners and ordinary Joes who dont have your 'qualifications'  :o!
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 03:50:11 AM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4658 on: February 16, 2020, 02:34:58 AM »
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There is something fundamentally wrong with your post Tom:

Georger previously identified the “hair pins” as the diatom Asterionella and Flyjack found out that Asterionella formosa was a winter species and A. japonica was a summer species.

1. Flyjack is wrong:  Asterionella formosa is NOT a winter species. No diatom is a 'winter species'! Formosa blooms in the Spring according to every modern textbook I can find.

Diatoms in general all bloom in the Spring - NASA schedules photography of the annual "vernal" (Spring) bloom as it spreads north in northern latitudes . . . from the Atlantic to the Pacific and everywhere across North America.

FLYJACK is trying to make some gigantic leap linking a diatom to when the Cooper money arrived at Tina Bar! Lets get the basic facts about diatoms understood first - before leaping off into Asterionella Cooper Money Mutilations and any other related NONSENSE!

Diatom blooms are a Spring event across all species of diatoms. Every textbook on diatoms confirms that!

2.  A. japonica is a Spring bloom species also, not summer.

3. Maturation rates are different for formosa vs japoinica.

Let's just leave it at that. I can supply urls to confirm everything I am saying ... this is not rocket science but common ordinary botanical facts. I dont think there is anything unusual about what your diatom photos show. Everything seen has a logical factual explanation. I am very confident of that. No Cooper Diatom Revelations in the Toast!  ;)

Very good Georger I too have been looking into the literature concerning summer / winter species.  It seems the referenced literature to the winter/summer species that Flyjack quotes is unavailable via conventional means. There appears to be no other concrete statements of summer/winter species in any other publications I have looked at. There is a great deal of literature about a spring bloom as you say.

However, I have found an intriguing piece of recent scientific literature on our particular formosa species that holds great promise.  I believe it will allow us to determine in what approximate month the diatoms on the bill grew to maturity. It is serious enough that i am considering writing a full scientific journal paper on it and putting it through peer review. I have never done anything like that for Cooper research before. It will require water samples over the next 6 months so it will not happen quickly.

As I said in my initial post that the statements were based on the research of others and needed to be verified. In any case the diatoms are "speaking" and things are moving forward.

Thanks,

Tom Kaye

I doubt anyone will be collecting water samples and running a study related to Cooper money, so you have a corner on that effort. In the meantime the issue is now public. A few people will have interest and probably will be making comments and claims, as has already happened over at Dropzone.

I sent you a PM and hopefully we can talk next week.  Take care.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 02:35:47 AM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4659 on: February 16, 2020, 11:37:14 AM »
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I guess I will post this -

Darren says:

Hey Georger,

I've got an expert on diatoms in the Columbia River lined up to do the show. If you have anything you'd like me to ask just let me know and I'll make sure it gets covered.

Thank you.

Darren

Q* Please identify all of Tom's diatoms. Is a-japonica shown at all in Tom's collection?

Q* when and where is this show? 

Q*   who and what is FLYJACK, The Oracle at Dropzone ?

Darren,  here is another question to ask Flyjack or anyone who is willing to publicly answer it:

Who and where is Georger, the Oracle of all things in Cooper World, and what are his qualifications for all of his pontifications?

ADDENDUM:  Tom Kaye's post just above is EXACTLY the kind of thing Cooper World needs to make any realistic progress in this matter.

Why dont you do something constructive for a change ?
..........................

'The reason diatoms are a common tool to match water environments is because of the variability of their populations are predictable and constant, the organisms can be identified by using the light microscope, and their silica cell walls allow for preservation.

Diatoms are unicellular eukaryotic microalgae that play important ecological roles on a global scale. Diatoms are responsible for 20% of global carbon fixation and 40% of marine primary productivity. Thus they are major contributors to climate change processes, and form a substantial basis of the marine food chain.

For example, the microscopic content of the water, which will include diatoms, will pass into the blood as well. The detection of diatoms in the organs can contribute to a diagnosis of death by drowning, a process referred to as the 'diatom test'.

While diatoms traditionally have been used to diagnose death by drowning, research is unravelling their huge potential for use as trace evidence in a range of forensic investigations. ... Their microscopic size and presence in standing and flowing water means they are often inhaled and swallowed during drowning. Freshwater diatoms are a key component of the Water Framework Directive (WFD) classifications of lakes and rivers and because their sensitivity to nutrient levels are very useful indicators of eutrophication. Diatoms can also be used to detect other environmental pressures such as increased acidity.

Cell division: The zygote sheds its silica theca and grows into a large sphere covered by an organic membrane, the auxospore. A new diatom cell of maximum size, the initial cell, forms within the auxospore thus beginning a new generation.

Diatoms found on an item can reveal something about the history of that item, due to the predictable biological processes diatoms go through, annually.

The collective presence or absence and status of diatoms in a sample, can help determine the history and location(s) of that item.'''

Your post describes why Tom Kaye's proposed publication, and the work leading up to it, is so important.  While waiting for it, perhaps you could find something equally constructive to do.

You are one cheeky . . . So you are running Tom's life now too in addition to running Cooperlandt!   :)  When do you find time for all your 'cleansing' and 'purification' duties?   :rofl:

You also fail to mention 377 and the risk he is taking with his property, but of course Tom is careful and considerate so 377's interests are in good hands. But 377 also has an interest in this whole matter, a legitimate interest. Are you running 377's interests also?

I will leave it at that for the sake of the children in the room!  It's getting pretty deep in here ... for us sinners and ordinary Joes who dont have your 'qualifications'  :o!

Georger, other than being completely paranoid, what do you have going for you?  And what are you talking about here in the first place?

Robert Nicholson
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4660 on: February 16, 2020, 05:22:39 PM »
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I guess I will post this -

Darren says:

Hey Georger,

I've got an expert on diatoms in the Columbia River lined up to do the show. If you have anything you'd like me to ask just let me know and I'll make sure it gets covered.

Thank you.

Darren

Q* Please identify all of Tom's diatoms. Is a-japonica shown at all in Tom's collection?

Q* when and where is this show? 

Q*   who and what is FLYJACK, The Oracle at Dropzone ?

Darren,  here is another question to ask Flyjack or anyone who is willing to publicly answer it:

Who and where is Georger, the Oracle of all things in Cooper World, and what are his qualifications for all of his pontifications?

ADDENDUM:  Tom Kaye's post just above is EXACTLY the kind of thing Cooper World needs to make any realistic progress in this matter.

Why dont you do something constructive for a change ?
..........................

'The reason diatoms are a common tool to match water environments is because of the variability of their populations are predictable and constant, the organisms can be identified by using the light microscope, and their silica cell walls allow for preservation.

Diatoms are unicellular eukaryotic microalgae that play important ecological roles on a global scale. Diatoms are responsible for 20% of global carbon fixation and 40% of marine primary productivity. Thus they are major contributors to climate change processes, and form a substantial basis of the marine food chain.

For example, the microscopic content of the water, which will include diatoms, will pass into the blood as well. The detection of diatoms in the organs can contribute to a diagnosis of death by drowning, a process referred to as the 'diatom test'.

While diatoms traditionally have been used to diagnose death by drowning, research is unravelling their huge potential for use as trace evidence in a range of forensic investigations. ... Their microscopic size and presence in standing and flowing water means they are often inhaled and swallowed during drowning. Freshwater diatoms are a key component of the Water Framework Directive (WFD) classifications of lakes and rivers and because their sensitivity to nutrient levels are very useful indicators of eutrophication. Diatoms can also be used to detect other environmental pressures such as increased acidity.

Cell division: The zygote sheds its silica theca and grows into a large sphere covered by an organic membrane, the auxospore. A new diatom cell of maximum size, the initial cell, forms within the auxospore thus beginning a new generation.

Diatoms found on an item can reveal something about the history of that item, due to the predictable biological processes diatoms go through, annually.

The collective presence or absence and status of diatoms in a sample, can help determine the history and location(s) of that item.'''

Your post describes why Tom Kaye's proposed publication, and the work leading up to it, is so important.  While waiting for it, perhaps you could find something equally constructive to do.

You are one cheeky . . . So you are running Tom's life now too in addition to running Cooperlandt!   :)  When do you find time for all your 'cleansing' and 'purification' duties?   :rofl:

You also fail to mention 377 and the risk he is taking with his property, but of course Tom is careful and considerate so 377's interests are in good hands. But 377 also has an interest in this whole matter, a legitimate interest. Are you running 377's interests also?

I will leave it at that for the sake of the children in the room!  It's getting pretty deep in here ... for us sinners and ordinary Joes who dont have your 'qualifications'  :o!

Georger, other than being completely paranoid, what do you have going for you?  And what are you talking about here in the first place?

Robert Nicholson

The only reason I am replying to your political bullshit is to inform everyone:

1. R99 and Ulis are conducting a political campaign against me and others, using this forum . . . their usefulness in the Cooper case is probably zero. Thats just my personal opinion ... enough of this R99/Ulis political crap! Smith and his followers may like it, but others dont. Robt 99 is just going to have to accommodate himself to the rest of the world living - 

2. FLYJACK made it clear today he is not going to demur from thinking and posting about the diatom issues Tom has raised. Why should I demur? Why should anyone demur?  Tom has had more than a decade to pursue the diatom issue.  .............  NOBODY needs to offer any apologies for their longstanding interest in diatoms vis-a-vis the DB Cooper money issue! 

3. R99 did Tom Kaye no favors last night! R99's comments last night, continuing today, all but assured other people will now explore the diatom issue, in addition to Tom Kaye. Tom Kaye can do whatever he wants and other people are now going to do what they want - by common census today. R99 is his own worst enemy to his cause - whatever that is! A large consensus of people now agree about that. This issue is so perverse and twisted it doesn't even need further explanation.

4. It is already clear from comments R99 and Tom made, that R99's interest is diatoms is - proving his west path vs the FBI flight path ... by any means R99 can dredge up or cobble together ! ?  99's WEST PATH seems to be at the root of anything-and-everything he says or does, including questioning my credentials?  It's a pure unabashed political campaign. The diatom issue has only been opened and R99 is already calculating how he can divert that issue to his own ends - which might seem funny to some but is deadly serious with .................................

I have a call I have to take. Later.      :rofl: 
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4661 on: February 16, 2020, 06:08:01 PM »
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I guess I will post this -

Darren says:

Hey Georger,

I've got an expert on diatoms in the Columbia River lined up to do the show. If you have anything you'd like me to ask just let me know and I'll make sure it gets covered.

Thank you.

Darren

Q* Please identify all of Tom's diatoms. Is a-japonica shown at all in Tom's collection?

Q* when and where is this show? 

Q*   who and what is FLYJACK, The Oracle at Dropzone ?

Darren,  here is another question to ask Flyjack or anyone who is willing to publicly answer it:

Who and where is Georger, the Oracle of all things in Cooper World, and what are his qualifications for all of his pontifications?

ADDENDUM:  Tom Kaye's post just above is EXACTLY the kind of thing Cooper World needs to make any realistic progress in this matter.

Why dont you do something constructive for a change ?
..........................

'The reason diatoms are a common tool to match water environments is because of the variability of their populations are predictable and constant, the organisms can be identified by using the light microscope, and their silica cell walls allow for preservation.

Diatoms are unicellular eukaryotic microalgae that play important ecological roles on a global scale. Diatoms are responsible for 20% of global carbon fixation and 40% of marine primary productivity. Thus they are major contributors to climate change processes, and form a substantial basis of the marine food chain.

For example, the microscopic content of the water, which will include diatoms, will pass into the blood as well. The detection of diatoms in the organs can contribute to a diagnosis of death by drowning, a process referred to as the 'diatom test'.

While diatoms traditionally have been used to diagnose death by drowning, research is unravelling their huge potential for use as trace evidence in a range of forensic investigations. ... Their microscopic size and presence in standing and flowing water means they are often inhaled and swallowed during drowning. Freshwater diatoms are a key component of the Water Framework Directive (WFD) classifications of lakes and rivers and because their sensitivity to nutrient levels are very useful indicators of eutrophication. Diatoms can also be used to detect other environmental pressures such as increased acidity.

Cell division: The zygote sheds its silica theca and grows into a large sphere covered by an organic membrane, the auxospore. A new diatom cell of maximum size, the initial cell, forms within the auxospore thus beginning a new generation.

Diatoms found on an item can reveal something about the history of that item, due to the predictable biological processes diatoms go through, annually.

The collective presence or absence and status of diatoms in a sample, can help determine the history and location(s) of that item.'''

Your post describes why Tom Kaye's proposed publication, and the work leading up to it, is so important.  While waiting for it, perhaps you could find something equally constructive to do.

You are one cheeky . . . So you are running Tom's life now too in addition to running Cooperlandt!   :)  When do you find time for all your 'cleansing' and 'purification' duties?   :rofl:

You also fail to mention 377 and the risk he is taking with his property, but of course Tom is careful and considerate so 377's interests are in good hands. But 377 also has an interest in this whole matter, a legitimate interest. Are you running 377's interests also?

I will leave it at that for the sake of the children in the room!  It's getting pretty deep in here ... for us sinners and ordinary Joes who dont have your 'qualifications'  :o!

Georger, other than being completely paranoid, what do you have going for you?  And what are you talking about here in the first place?

Robert Nicholson

Who in HELL do you think you are - you silly ... !
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4662 on: February 16, 2020, 11:36:50 PM »
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I guess I will post this -

Darren says:

Hey Georger,

I've got an expert on diatoms in the Columbia River lined up to do the show. If you have anything you'd like me to ask just let me know and I'll make sure it gets covered.

Thank you.

Darren

Q* Please identify all of Tom's diatoms. Is a-japonica shown at all in Tom's collection?

Q* when and where is this show? 

Q*   who and what is FLYJACK, The Oracle at Dropzone ?

Darren,  here is another question to ask Flyjack or anyone who is willing to publicly answer it:

Who and where is Georger, the Oracle of all things in Cooper World, and what are his qualifications for all of his pontifications?

ADDENDUM:  Tom Kaye's post just above is EXACTLY the kind of thing Cooper World needs to make any realistic progress in this matter.

Why dont you do something constructive for a change ?
..........................

'The reason diatoms are a common tool to match water environments is because of the variability of their populations are predictable and constant, the organisms can be identified by using the light microscope, and their silica cell walls allow for preservation.

Diatoms are unicellular eukaryotic microalgae that play important ecological roles on a global scale. Diatoms are responsible for 20% of global carbon fixation and 40% of marine primary productivity. Thus they are major contributors to climate change processes, and form a substantial basis of the marine food chain.

For example, the microscopic content of the water, which will include diatoms, will pass into the blood as well. The detection of diatoms in the organs can contribute to a diagnosis of death by drowning, a process referred to as the 'diatom test'.

While diatoms traditionally have been used to diagnose death by drowning, research is unravelling their huge potential for use as trace evidence in a range of forensic investigations. ... Their microscopic size and presence in standing and flowing water means they are often inhaled and swallowed during drowning. Freshwater diatoms are a key component of the Water Framework Directive (WFD) classifications of lakes and rivers and because their sensitivity to nutrient levels are very useful indicators of eutrophication. Diatoms can also be used to detect other environmental pressures such as increased acidity.

Cell division: The zygote sheds its silica theca and grows into a large sphere covered by an organic membrane, the auxospore. A new diatom cell of maximum size, the initial cell, forms within the auxospore thus beginning a new generation.

Diatoms found on an item can reveal something about the history of that item, due to the predictable biological processes diatoms go through, annually.

The collective presence or absence and status of diatoms in a sample, can help determine the history and location(s) of that item.'''

Your post describes why Tom Kaye's proposed publication, and the work leading up to it, is so important.  While waiting for it, perhaps you could find something equally constructive to do.

You are one cheeky . . . So you are running Tom's life now too in addition to running Cooperlandt!   :)  When do you find time for all your 'cleansing' and 'purification' duties?   :rofl:

You also fail to mention 377 and the risk he is taking with his property, but of course Tom is careful and considerate so 377's interests are in good hands. But 377 also has an interest in this whole matter, a legitimate interest. Are you running 377's interests also?

I will leave it at that for the sake of the children in the room!  It's getting pretty deep in here ... for us sinners and ordinary Joes who dont have your 'qualifications'  :o!

Georger, other than being completely paranoid, what do you have going for you?  And what are you talking about here in the first place?

Robert Nicholson

The only reason I am replying to your political bullshit is to inform everyone:

1. R99 and Ulis are conducting a political campaign against me and others, using this forum . . . their usefulness in the Cooper case is probably zero. Thats just my personal opinion ... enough of this R99/Ulis political crap! Smith and his followers may like it, but others dont. Robt 99 is just going to have to accommodate himself to the rest of the world living - 

2. FLYJACK made it clear today he is not going to demur from thinking and posting about the diatom issues Tom has raised. Why should I demur? Why should anyone demur?  Tom has had more than a decade to pursue the diatom issue.  .............  NOBODY needs to offer any apologies for their longstanding interest in diatoms vis-a-vis the DB Cooper money issue! 

3. R99 did Tom Kaye no favors last night! R99's comments last night, continuing today, all but assured other people will now explore the diatom issue, in addition to Tom Kaye. Tom Kaye can do whatever he wants and other people are now going to do what they want - by common census today. R99 is his own worst enemy to his cause - whatever that is! A large consensus of people now agree about that. This issue is so perverse and twisted it doesn't even need further explanation.

4. It is already clear from comments R99 and Tom made, that R99's interest is diatoms is - proving his west path vs the FBI flight path ... by any means R99 can dredge up or cobble together ! ?  99's WEST PATH seems to be at the root of anything-and-everything he says or does, including questioning my credentials?  It's a pure unabashed political campaign. The diatom issue has only been opened and R99 is already calculating how he can divert that issue to his own ends - which might seem funny to some but is deadly serious with .................................

I have a call I have to take. Later.      :rofl:

Georger, your post just proves the validity of the post you were responding to.
 

Offline Tom Kaye

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4663 on: February 17, 2020, 01:29:52 AM »
All,

New developments!  Fly Jack came up with a second book talking about seasonal variation in the Columbia. This time I was able to dig up the reference they used for that statement and now we actually have some hard data. The attached graph shows the predominant species and what months they found them. Unfortunately they did not seem to sample every month so things are a bit jagged. What this clearly shows is than in Nov and Feb there is zero activity for our A. formosa species of interest. At the peak in July, formosa is dominant (as it is on the bill) but there are other species as well. I BELIEVE I have identified all of the other July species as present on the bill at least to the genera level. I did not find any other species other than these on the bill.  The color was added by me.

So now this info suggests:
The money got wet around July and was then buried.
The money find does NOT support the western flight path
It does not support Cooper digging a hole on the beach on his way out of town.
It brings the dredge theory back into play (but it is still weak in that you can't get bundles intact through a dredge)
It suggests that the money event happened in a displaced time frame from the jump event.

I think this gives us much to think about. Let's try and make some progress instead of arguing with each other.

Tom Kaye


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Offline nickyb233

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4664 on: February 17, 2020, 02:01:42 AM »
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All,

New developments!  Fly Jack came up with a second book talking about seasonal variation in the Columbia. This time I was able to dig up the reference they used for that statement and now we actually have some hard data. The attached graph shows the predominant species and what months they found them. Unfortunately they did not seem to sample every month so things are a bit jagged. What this clearly shows is than in Nov and Feb there is zero activity for our A. formosa species of interest. At the peak in July, formosa is dominant (as it is on the bill) but there are other species as well. I BELIEVE I have identified all of the other July species as present on the bill at least to the genera level. I did not find any other species other than these on the bill.  The color was added by me.

So now this info suggests:
The money got wet around July and was then buried.
The money find does NOT support the western flight path
It does not support Cooper digging a hole on the beach on his way out of town.
It brings the dredge theory back into play (but it is still weak in that you can't get bundles intact through a dredge)
It suggests that the money event happened in a displaced time frame from the jump event.

I think this gives us much to think about. Let's try and make some progress instead of arguing with each other.

Tom Kaye


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Thanks for the update Tom but why does it have to be buried? Could it have been dropped in a waterway close to tbar in July and then washed up at tbar and then sat until Brian found it in feb?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 02:03:34 AM by nickyb233 »