Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tina Bar Money Find  (Read 444275 times)

Offline Tom Kaye

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4620 on: February 12, 2020, 03:35:35 AM »
more pics
 

Offline Tom Kaye

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4621 on: February 12, 2020, 03:36:49 AM »
More pictures that were used for ID of formosa.
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4622 on: February 12, 2020, 03:41:52 AM »
Wonderful findings, Tom. Many thanks.

Hat tip to 377, too!
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4623 on: February 12, 2020, 10:22:35 AM »
What are the active dates for the winter species?
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4624 on: February 12, 2020, 10:44:31 AM »
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All,

I have a big update for the Cooper Vortex. 377 let me take additional larger samples from his Cooper bill. I went through the largest of the pieces tonight under the SEM and found additional “hair pin” specimens. While we found these previously, the tubes were not fully intact. The latest ones are in 3D and allowed for species ID. We did not however find any entirely intact specimens with multiple spines.

Georger previously identified the “hair pins” as the diatom Asterionella and Flyjack found out that Asterionella formosa was a winter species and A. japonica was a summer species. Flyjack came up with a list of species in the Columbia and I was able to come up with pictures for most but not all of them. So I caution that new evidence could overthrow these findings but the missing species seem to be rare or contested. It turns out the only species we find on the bill is A. formosa, the winter species. The summer species japonica is WAY different than formosa so there is very little chance of confusion. So this data suggests that the money had a water transport phase that happened in winter and shortly thereafter was buried on Tena Bar.

Here is the reasoning. Given the spindly nature of these things and the fact we find a few of them together, means it is very unlikely that they would penetrate through the sand to get on the bills. One spine might get through but a couple would be highly unlikely to end up in the same place and we found several spots with multiple spines. If they could penetrate the sand we should find winter and summer species but we don’t.  We also know that it is unlikely they came from Brian Ingram washing them off in the river because he was there during the summer.

This is the first evidence based timing information that constrains when the money arrived on Tena Bar and the first new evidence since the money was found that I can think of. It supports a water transport phase before burial. It does not support a human burial on TB. It dismisses the dredge theory because that happens during the summer. It supports the timing of the jump in November but not for Cooper burying the money himself. It supports the western flight path theories where Cooper could have dropped some bundles during the free fall. It completely dismisses the multi-year transport across multiple waterways.

So this new diatom data supports a watery, winter arrival on Tena Bar. Bravo to 377 for letting me tear into his bill, he is now forever locked into the story of DB Cooper. This theory is based on research of several people, it would be good to get that verified. Pics to follow.

Tom Kaye

Great!  Recommend awarding the Cooper World Gold Medal to Tom and Mark at the next get together in Portland.

I believe the money at Tina Bar was found on February 10, 1980, which was 40 years ago this week.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 11:00:19 AM by Robert99 »
 

Offline Tom Kaye

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4625 on: February 12, 2020, 11:00:30 AM »

******* CORRECTION *********
377 I believe correctly pointed out that the Ingram's found the money in February so the possibility remains that they dunked them in the water when they found them. I will try and reach out to Brian and see if I can get an answer to that question.

Tom

 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4626 on: February 12, 2020, 03:12:23 PM »
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******* CORRECTION *********
377 I believe correctly pointed out that the Ingram's found the money in February so the possibility remains that they dunked them in the water when they found them. I will try and reach out to Brian and see if I can get an answer to that question.

Tom

You may be out of luck. Im not convinced Brian remembers much about the finding of the money, if he ever did know at age eight in the company of adults, based on the fact he could never answer direct questions put to him by Carr and myself, back in the day - he always had to call and ask his Mom - "lemme call mom and see what she says. She will know." !

Didn't Brian tell you in 2008-09 he didn't remember anything about the finding of the money?

And again, we have two versions that conflict:  Harold & Pat's version of the money find vs. Crystal Ingram's version. The FBI file you have details both versions. Who's version is the correct version? It was Crystal who outed Harold and Pat to Himmesbach for not turning in all of their found bills ... they had kept some as 'souvenirs'.  That caused Harold and Pat to rethink their position short of the FBI getting a search warrant and going to their apartment . . .

I think Brian's mind is so cluttered with things people have told him at this point, his testimony is almost worthless unless he tags what he is saying with: " ... and Mom tells me..." Its His mother Patrician Lynn who has the best most accurate memory, if she will cough up the facts!  Or there is Crystal's version - she is still alive but unwilling to talk about this.

Lastly: if you dont know,

Harold Dwayne "Slim" Ingram Jr, age 67, of Mena, Arkansas died Tuesday, December 31, 2019. He was born on Friday, February 22, 1952 to Harold D. and Bernice Marie Skaggs Ingram in Fresno, California.

When you talk to Brian at Mena AK, ask Brian if his mother PATRICIA LYNN INCRAM is still alive - she lives or lived in . . . 

And the former Crystal Ingram, former wife of Harold's brother, was located several years ago and re-interviewed. Read your file, Tom! 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 05:36:23 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4627 on: February 12, 2020, 05:52:08 PM »
Always timely with the latest purloined POOP, FLYACK with capitol letters SAYZ:

" FLYJACK

#61185

Tom Kaye has Id'd the diatom as a winter variety...

That indicates the money arrived from the water in winter.

The caveat is that the Ingram's may have washed the money in the river when they found it.. this is unlikely, the money packets were tight and diatoms would only be exposed to the outer bills..

So, what serial number is 377's Cooper bill,, was it likely an internal bill."


WHOOPIE!   :bravo:

THE DB COOPER OZMA HAS SPOKEN!  May we be graced by Cooper Gods again soon. Packets pending . . . 

***** CORRECTION FOR FLYING JACK**********

Tom found 7 types of diatoms, not one!   What of those?   FLYJACK will make a correction in his next press release.  :D   
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 06:09:42 PM by georger »
 

Offline 377

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4628 on: February 12, 2020, 07:07:11 PM »
If Tom needs further access to or more samples taken
from my Cooper twenty I’ll oblige. Science holds a higher priority with me than preserving every square micron of my bill. I’ve often wished my Cooper twenty could talk. Tom, using his classic vintage SEM, has actually coaxed a few words out of it. I’m thrilled.

377
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 07:07:36 PM by 377 »
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4629 on: February 12, 2020, 11:40:16 PM »
FLYJACK in caPITOL lEtTeRs says:

" NO Georger, I didn't claim Kaye found only one diatom, he clearly stated he found many, I can read. I was referring to the question of whether Asterionella was the winter or summer variety, that is the context.

The real point was,, where was the bill in the packet.

I don't know if you genuinely lack contextual discrimination due to a disorder or are just being a troll, but many people are really fed up with your nonsense. You continue, without fail, to discredit yourself. You are more a hinderance than an asset to the Cooper case and your toxic behaviour toward others doesn't elevate your relevance.

You were caught lying and you refuse to admit when you are wrong which is often. You spend more time copying and pasting my comments with added disinformation than doing any of your own research. You can choose to be a positive influence."

GeRoger's REPLyy:

HUH!? 

What is "contextual discrimination" in a human language?

hinderance is spelled 'hindrance' 

behaviour is spekked 'behavior'.

What does "You were caught lying and you refuse to admit when you are wrong which is often." This is not a complete semantically viable sentence on Earth.

Or, did you mean to say:

"Twas brillig, when the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe; All mimsy were the borogoves, and the mome raths outgrabe. Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the frumious Bandersnatch!" 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 11:40:44 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4630 on: February 12, 2020, 11:53:05 PM »
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FLYJACK in caPITOL lEtTeRs says:

" NO Georger, I didn't claim Kaye found only one diatom, he clearly stated he found many, I can read. I was referring to the question of whether Asterionella was the winter or summer variety, that is the context.

The real point was,, where was the bill in the packet.

I don't know if you genuinely lack contextual discrimination due to a disorder or are just being a troll, but many people are really fed up with your nonsense. You continue, without fail, to discredit yourself. You are more a hinderance than an asset to the Cooper case and your toxic behaviour toward others doesn't elevate your relevance.

You were caught lying and you refuse to admit when you are wrong which is often. You spend more time copying and pasting my comments with added disinformation than doing any of your own research. You can choose to be a positive influence."

GeRoger's REPLyy:

HUH!? 

What is "contextual discrimination" in a human language?

hinderance is spelled 'hindrance' 

behaviour is spekked 'behavior'.

What does "You were caught lying and you refuse to admit when you are wrong which is often." This is not a complete semantically viable sentence on Earth.

Or, did you mean to say:

"Twas brillig, when the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe; All mimsy were the borogoves, and the mome raths outgrabe. Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the frumious Bandersnatch!"

Flyjack has a good point!  The packets reportedly were essentially solid masses when found and the Ingram's reportedly had difficulty separating the bill when they tried to do so at their house.  So if in fact the Ingram's tried to wash them in the river, only the outer bills in the packets would be exposed to the water.  That leaves about 200 hundred bills that would not be exposed to the river water and I'll bet that 377's bill is one of those. 

 377 has previously posted that he paid a lot of money for his bill.  Would he shell out a lot of money for a highly damaged bill?   
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4631 on: February 13, 2020, 12:12:10 AM »
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FLYJACK in caPITOL lEtTeRs says:

" NO Georger, I didn't claim Kaye found only one diatom, he clearly stated he found many, I can read. I was referring to the question of whether Asterionella was the winter or summer variety, that is the context.

The real point was,, where was the bill in the packet.

I don't know if you genuinely lack contextual discrimination due to a disorder or are just being a troll, but many people are really fed up with your nonsense. You continue, without fail, to discredit yourself. You are more a hinderance than an asset to the Cooper case and your toxic behaviour toward others doesn't elevate your relevance.

You were caught lying and you refuse to admit when you are wrong which is often. You spend more time copying and pasting my comments with added disinformation than doing any of your own research. You can choose to be a positive influence."

GeRoger's REPLyy:

HUH!? 

What is "contextual discrimination" in a human language?

hinderance is spelled 'hindrance' 

behaviour is spekked 'behavior'.

What does "You were caught lying and you refuse to admit when you are wrong which is often." This is not a complete semantically viable sentence on Earth.

Or, did you mean to say:

"Twas brillig, when the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe; All mimsy were the borogoves, and the mome raths outgrabe. Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the frumious Bandersnatch!"

Flyjack has a good point!  The packets reportedly were essentially solid masses when found and the Ingram's reportedly had difficulty separating the bill when they tried to do so at their house.  So if in fact the Ingram's tried to wash them in the river, only the outer bills in the packets would be exposed to the water.  That leaves about 200 hundred bills that would not be exposed to the river water and I'll bet that 377's bill is one of those. 

 377 has previously posted that he paid a lot of money for his bill.  Would he shell out a lot of money for a highly damaged bill?

Whats the special point if the Ingrams dipped their find in the river to clean it off? Are you saying that's where the money got contaminated with diatoms? Is this what FLYJACK is saying? I have no idea what FLYJACK is saying or suggesting,  since he never completes a thought anyone can pin him down with.

And since both claimed sites (Harold vs Crystal) are exposed to the river daily (tides) the money got exposed to fresh river water daily, in any event!  ;)  What's so special about Flyjack's theory the Ingrams dipped the money in the river?

Likewise what's so special about the diatoms being winter diatoms - the money was found in the late winter.

In fact the point FLYJACK is missing is: only one or two diatoms even look alive and fully developed, to me. The other toms are  'pieces of diatoms' or broken old pieces of skeletons or dead! I dont see a healthy fully developed tom in the whole bunch ?   That could mean something if true.

This diatom issue is brand new - no point in jumping to large conclusions as per FLYING JACK. Why didnt Tom's other three bills show diatoms? Diatoms are pretty hard to miss if they are present. Somebody is going to have to examine all of the bills to make any sense of this and that is probably not an option at this point. Ingram isn't going to allow it on his bills!  :nono:

In addition, I think we are dealing with a lot of mythology about the Ingrams working their tails off all night to separate bills ... Brian has said 'the bills came out in pieces' ... you can see the groupings of bills they turned in, in their plastic Wonder bread wrapper, shown in the press conference photo. The only four single bills we known they separated were the four bills they failed to turn in and were keeping as souvenirs,  which Crystal Ingram ratted them out about, to Himmelsbach . . . there is nothing beyond their word they didnt have more bills stowed away that nobody got! No search warrant was used in this matter.

 
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 12:36:24 AM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4632 on: February 13, 2020, 12:43:33 AM »
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FLYJACK in caPITOL lEtTeRs says:

" NO Georger, I didn't claim Kaye found only one diatom, he clearly stated he found many, I can read. I was referring to the question of whether Asterionella was the winter or summer variety, that is the context.

The real point was,, where was the bill in the packet.

I don't know if you genuinely lack contextual discrimination due to a disorder or are just being a troll, but many people are really fed up with your nonsense. You continue, without fail, to discredit yourself. You are more a hinderance than an asset to the Cooper case and your toxic behaviour toward others doesn't elevate your relevance.

You were caught lying and you refuse to admit when you are wrong which is often. You spend more time copying and pasting my comments with added disinformation than doing any of your own research. You can choose to be a positive influence."

GeRoger's REPLyy:

HUH!? 

What is "contextual discrimination" in a human language?

hinderance is spelled 'hindrance' 

behaviour is spekked 'behavior'.

What does "You were caught lying and you refuse to admit when you are wrong which is often." This is not a complete semantically viable sentence on Earth.

Or, did you mean to say:

"Twas brillig, when the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe; All mimsy were the borogoves, and the mome raths outgrabe. Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the frumious Bandersnatch!"

Flyjack has a good point!  The packets reportedly were essentially solid masses when found and the Ingram's reportedly had difficulty separating the bill when they tried to do so at their house.  So if in fact the Ingram's tried to wash them in the river, only the outer bills in the packets would be exposed to the water.  That leaves about 200 hundred bills that would not be exposed to the river water and I'll bet that 377's bill is one of those. 

 377 has previously posted that he paid a lot of money for his bill.  Would he shell out a lot of money for a highly damaged bill?

Whats the special point if the Ingrams dipped their find in the river to clean it off? Are you saying that's where the money got contaminated with diatoms? Is this what FLYJACK is saying? I have no idea what FLYJACK is saying or suggesting,  since he never completes a thought anyone can pin him down with.

And since both claimed sites (Harold vs Crystal) are exposed to the river daily (tides) the money got exposed to fresh river water daily, in any event!  ;)  What's so special about Flyjack's theory the Ingrams dipped the money in the river?

Likewise what's so special about the diatoms being winter diatoms - the money was found in the late winter.

In fact the point FLYJACK is missing is: only one or two diatoms even look alive and fully developed, to me. The other toms are  'pieces of diatoms' or broken old pieces of skeletons or dead! I dont see a healthy fully developed tom in the whole bunch ?   That could mean something if true.

This diatom issue is brand new - no point in jumping to large conclusions as per FLYING JACK. Why didnt Tom's other three bills show diatoms? Diatoms are pretty hard to miss if they are present. Somebody is going to have to examine all of the bills to make any sense of this and that is probably not an option at this point. Ingram isn't going to allow it on his bills!  :nono:

In addition, I think we are dealing with a lot of mythology about the Ingrams working their tails off all night to separate bills ... Brian has said 'the bills came out in pieces' ... you can see the groupings of bills they turned in, in their plastic Wonder bread wrapper, shown in the press conference photo. The only four single bills we known they separated were the four bills they failed to turn in and were keeping as souvenirs,  which Crystal Ingram ratted them out about, to Himmelsbach . . . there is nothing beyond their word they didnt have more bills stowed away that nobody got!

 

Your claim that the bills were washed daily by the tide is simply not correct.  The bills were found in an area where Brian was supposedly digging a hole for a fire pit.  He would have a hard time doing that in the area that was routine washed by the tide and very well packed.  Some pictures of Brian at Tina Bar show him posing for the camera in an area which was essentially a sand pit and where it would be very easy to dig but very difficult to walk.

Your posts are not any easier to decipher than Flyjack's.

ADDENDUM:  I have just taken a look at Flyjack's post #61187 on DropZone and it is coherent and logical.  Flyjack has some other posts close to this one that explains some things.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 12:59:33 AM by Robert99 »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4633 on: February 13, 2020, 01:10:27 AM »
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FLYJACK in caPITOL lEtTeRs says:

" NO Georger, I didn't claim Kaye found only one diatom, he clearly stated he found many, I can read. I was referring to the question of whether Asterionella was the winter or summer variety, that is the context.

The real point was,, where was the bill in the packet.

I don't know if you genuinely lack contextual discrimination due to a disorder or are just being a troll, but many people are really fed up with your nonsense. You continue, without fail, to discredit yourself. You are more a hinderance than an asset to the Cooper case and your toxic behaviour toward others doesn't elevate your relevance.

You were caught lying and you refuse to admit when you are wrong which is often. You spend more time copying and pasting my comments with added disinformation than doing any of your own research. You can choose to be a positive influence."

GeRoger's REPLyy:

HUH!? 

What is "contextual discrimination" in a human language?

hinderance is spelled 'hindrance' 

behaviour is spekked 'behavior'.

What does "You were caught lying and you refuse to admit when you are wrong which is often." This is not a complete semantically viable sentence on Earth.

Or, did you mean to say:

"Twas brillig, when the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe; All mimsy were the borogoves, and the mome raths outgrabe. Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the frumious Bandersnatch!"

Flyjack has a good point!  The packets reportedly were essentially solid masses when found and the Ingram's reportedly had difficulty separating the bill when they tried to do so at their house.  So if in fact the Ingram's tried to wash them in the river, only the outer bills in the packets would be exposed to the water.  That leaves about 200 hundred bills that would not be exposed to the river water and I'll bet that 377's bill is one of those. 

 377 has previously posted that he paid a lot of money for his bill.  Would he shell out a lot of money for a highly damaged bill?

Whats the special point if the Ingrams dipped their find in the river to clean it off? Are you saying that's where the money got contaminated with diatoms? Is this what FLYJACK is saying? I have no idea what FLYJACK is saying or suggesting,  since he never completes a thought anyone can pin him down with.

And since both claimed sites (Harold vs Crystal) are exposed to the river daily (tides) the money got exposed to fresh river water daily, in any event!  ;)  What's so special about Flyjack's theory the Ingrams dipped the money in the river?

Likewise what's so special about the diatoms being winter diatoms - the money was found in the late winter.

In fact the point FLYJACK is missing is: only one or two diatoms even look alive and fully developed, to me. The other toms are  'pieces of diatoms' or broken old pieces of skeletons or dead! I dont see a healthy fully developed tom in the whole bunch ?   That could mean something if true.

This diatom issue is brand new - no point in jumping to large conclusions as per FLYING JACK. Why didnt Tom's other three bills show diatoms? Diatoms are pretty hard to miss if they are present. Somebody is going to have to examine all of the bills to make any sense of this and that is probably not an option at this point. Ingram isn't going to allow it on his bills!  :nono:

In addition, I think we are dealing with a lot of mythology about the Ingrams working their tails off all night to separate bills ... Brian has said 'the bills came out in pieces' ... you can see the groupings of bills they turned in, in their plastic Wonder bread wrapper, shown in the press conference photo. The only four single bills we known they separated were the four bills they failed to turn in and were keeping as souvenirs,  which Crystal Ingram ratted them out about, to Himmelsbach . . . there is nothing beyond their word they didnt have more bills stowed away that nobody got!

 

Your claim that the bills were washed daily by the tide is simply not correct.  The bills were found in an area where Brian was supposedly digging a hole for a fire pit.  He would have a hard time doing that in the area that was routine washed by the tide and very well packed.  Some pictures of Brian at Tina Bar show him posing for the camera in an area which was essentially a sand pit and where it would be very easy to dig but very difficult to walk.

Your posts are not any easier to decipher than Flyjack"s.

The press photos of Brian at Tina Bar - are staged. May have nothing to do with where the money was found. Do you see Brian's hand in a hole in any of those photos?

The Fazios said (told everyone) the money was found "on the high tide line". See Fazio news interviews at the time. The Fazio's got this from the FBI after agents took Harold to the sandbar and simply asked him to point to the place where the money had been found. Agents then brought the Fazios down and asked them "who owns this land; you or somebody else?" That's the first time the Fazios saw the place Ingram had identified. It turned out it was on Fazio land, just south of the property line.

The press conference with the Ingrams went forward as planned.

A day later friction developed between the Ingrams and the FBI over a reward, and between the Ingrams themselves. Crystal Ingram surfaced and told 'H' that Harold and Brian had lied about where the money was found, and she said it was found further down the incline and close to the river! She had seen a photo of Brian in the newspaper and said the photo was 'all wrong'. Then as we all know (with the expedition happening at Tina Bar) the Ingrams intensified their demand for a reward 'for Brian', they said ... in the newspapers and even with radio stations. (This is all documented)  On February 14, Crystal delivered four more Cooper bills to H, the Ingrams had held back.

Crystal continued to tell FBI agents that Brian Ingram and her daughter found the money "at the water's edge", not up the incline as newspaper photos were showing.   

I have no evidence Crystal's location claim was given any credence. The expedition was already under way. Her claim that the Ingrams were holding back money was taken seriously (Short of a search warrant being issued) and arrangements were made for her to bring more bills in, for herself and Pat and Harold.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 01:26:57 AM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4634 on: February 13, 2020, 02:05:03 AM »
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FLYJACK in caPITOL lEtTeRs says:

" NO Georger, I didn't claim Kaye found only one diatom, he clearly stated he found many, I can read. I was referring to the question of whether Asterionella was the winter or summer variety, that is the context.

The real point was,, where was the bill in the packet.

I don't know if you genuinely lack contextual discrimination due to a disorder or are just being a troll, but many people are really fed up with your nonsense. You continue, without fail, to discredit yourself. You are more a hinderance than an asset to the Cooper case and your toxic behaviour toward others doesn't elevate your relevance.

You were caught lying and you refuse to admit when you are wrong which is often. You spend more time copying and pasting my comments with added disinformation than doing any of your own research. You can choose to be a positive influence."

GeRoger's REPLyy:

HUH!? 

What is "contextual discrimination" in a human language?

hinderance is spelled 'hindrance' 

behaviour is spekked 'behavior'.

What does "You were caught lying and you refuse to admit when you are wrong which is often." This is not a complete semantically viable sentence on Earth.

Or, did you mean to say:

"Twas brillig, when the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe; All mimsy were the borogoves, and the mome raths outgrabe. Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the frumious Bandersnatch!"

Flyjack has a good point!  The packets reportedly were essentially solid masses when found and the Ingram's reportedly had difficulty separating the bill when they tried to do so at their house.  So if in fact the Ingram's tried to wash them in the river, only the outer bills in the packets would be exposed to the water.  That leaves about 200 hundred bills that would not be exposed to the river water and I'll bet that 377's bill is one of those. 

 377 has previously posted that he paid a lot of money for his bill.  Would he shell out a lot of money for a highly damaged bill?

Whats the special point if the Ingrams dipped their find in the river to clean it off? Are you saying that's where the money got contaminated with diatoms? Is this what FLYJACK is saying? I have no idea what FLYJACK is saying or suggesting,  since he never completes a thought anyone can pin him down with.

And since both claimed sites (Harold vs Crystal) are exposed to the river daily (tides) the money got exposed to fresh river water daily, in any event!  ;)  What's so special about Flyjack's theory the Ingrams dipped the money in the river?

Likewise what's so special about the diatoms being winter diatoms - the money was found in the late winter.

In fact the point FLYJACK is missing is: only one or two diatoms even look alive and fully developed, to me. The other toms are  'pieces of diatoms' or broken old pieces of skeletons or dead! I dont see a healthy fully developed tom in the whole bunch ?   That could mean something if true.

This diatom issue is brand new - no point in jumping to large conclusions as per FLYING JACK. Why didnt Tom's other three bills show diatoms? Diatoms are pretty hard to miss if they are present. Somebody is going to have to examine all of the bills to make any sense of this and that is probably not an option at this point. Ingram isn't going to allow it on his bills!  :nono:

In addition, I think we are dealing with a lot of mythology about the Ingrams working their tails off all night to separate bills ... Brian has said 'the bills came out in pieces' ... you can see the groupings of bills they turned in, in their plastic Wonder bread wrapper, shown in the press conference photo. The only four single bills we known they separated were the four bills they failed to turn in and were keeping as souvenirs,  which Crystal Ingram ratted them out about, to Himmelsbach . . . there is nothing beyond their word they didnt have more bills stowed away that nobody got!

 

Your claim that the bills were washed daily by the tide is simply not correct.  The bills were found in an area where Brian was supposedly digging a hole for a fire pit.  He would have a hard time doing that in the area that was routine washed by the tide and very well packed.  Some pictures of Brian at Tina Bar show him posing for the camera in an area which was essentially a sand pit and where it would be very easy to dig but very difficult to walk.

Your posts are not any easier to decipher than Flyjack's.

ADDENDUM:  I have just taken a look at Flyjack's post #61187 on DropZone and it is coherent and logical.  Flyjack has some other posts close to this one that explains some things.

Oh OK.

If we can get away from the greatness of my accuser FLYJACK for a second - - -

Here are the two photos of Brian published at the time at Tina Bar (1980) - see any difference. See any similarity?

See any money hole?   See any immutable evidence ?

Brian was not present when Harold lead the FBI to the money location. These photos were taken later.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 02:07:15 AM by georger »