Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tina Bar Money Find  (Read 425325 times)

georger

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #45 on: March 13, 2014, 04:43:17 PM »
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Bruce:

The money find at Tina's bar just happens to be the same amount (three packs of $20 or $6,000) that DB offered the Flight Crew and they refused it! What would DB do then with the three packs of $20 as he has the bag tied up and around his waist? I think he put the three packs into the paper sack he brought on-board, rolled it up and stuffed it into his shirt. While jumping into the "blast", the paper bag could have been blown out of the shirt and be the carrier that took the three packs to some trees and then over the years to Tina's Bar. The sack would have provided floatation and protection for the three packs and kept them all together until time and weather left only the three pack in the sand. To me this is a logical explanation as to how the money got to Tina's Bar with out any "Monkey Business" on the part of the FBI and explains why the three packs were all stacked together as the bag kept them that way until dissolved.

Bob Sailshaw
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So what year did the neatly stacked three bundles get planted on Tina Bar, with what tool?

Did the planter wear shoes or galoshes or muck-lucks?

Was the planter missing the ring finger of his left hand?




 
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2014, 06:37:33 PM »
Lets try and keep responses civil.....

here is what ckret said about the money, and the amount offered....

"When Tina brought the money to Cooper, Cooper started talking excitedly about it (Flo's assessment about him being child like). He talked about how heavy it was and had Flo hold the bag so she could feel the weight. Tina then joked with Cooper about it being a lot of money and could she have some. Cooper reached into the bag and gave her a bundle of money. Tina then said to him she was just joking and that she could not accept gratuities and handed the bundle back to Cooper."

It appears that it was only one bundle.... 8)
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #47 on: March 13, 2014, 06:54:11 PM »
Here is some more from ckret. it's some what money related, so I'll post it here.

"Cooper made an inspection of the chutes when Tina was present. As well as the money and the bag the money came in. He made his concerns clear to Tina about the money bag. He checked the money and made statements about that. He stated several times, "no funny stuff," providing nonfunctioning equipment would be funy stuff. Reason dictates that if he new the reserve was a dummy he would have said something about that as well.

I doubt that Cooper would have been able to gain any information about the wind conditions by throwing a chute off the air stairs. It was dark, the chute would have instantly disappeared from his sight the moment he let go of it.

Of course almost anything is possible, but the evidence points to him jumping with it, not that he did, it just points in that direction."
 

georger

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #48 on: March 14, 2014, 12:11:57 AM »
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Bruce:

The money find at Tina's bar just happens to be the same amount (three packs of $20 or $6,000) that DB offered the Flight Crew and they refused it! What would DB do then with the three packs of $20 as he has the bag tied up and around his waist? I think he put the three packs into the paper sack he brought on-board, rolled it up and stuffed it into his shirt. While jumping into the "blast", the paper bag could have been blown out of the shirt and be the carrier that took the three packs to some trees and then over the years to Tina's Bar. The sack would have provided floatation and protection for the three packs and kept them all together until time and weather left only the three pack in the sand. To me this is a logical explanation as to how the money got to Tina's Bar with out any "Monkey Business" on the part of the FBI and explains why the three packs were all stacked together as the bag kept them that way until dissolved.

Bob Sailshaw
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So what year did the neatly stacked three bundles get planted on Tina Bar, with what tool?

Im expressing my deep frustration that "Tres Bundolas" has been fixicated in the lexicon. Let's cover some historical
territory: (you have no idea how much work it took me to :dredge: the following quotes out. 

Vancouver WASH/UPI Feb20 1980: Only one money "bundle" from the $200,000 hijacking ransom given master
criminal D.B. Cooper eight years ago has been found, the FBI said today. "It's all from one bundle",  said John
Pringle, assistant special agent in charge . . . . 


book: "After Ingram's find of part of one bundle FBI agents found a few more dirty fragments of bills . . .

Daily Record Feb 15, 1980...: "This is the area where a Vancouver picnicking family last Sunday stumbled on a
tattered wad of bills buried three to six inches of sand. The wad had remains of a rubber band around it... 


Spokane Wash February 15, 1980 ... "Pringle disagreed with Himmelsbach's idea on when the money arrived ...
the total amount  that was there prior to the find is undetermined ...


Spokesman Review, 20 Feb 1960: "Meanwhile the FBI said geologists concluded the less than one bundle . . . 

Portland, Feb 20 1980: 'The boy ..... turned up three bundles of money ... appeared to be wrapped with rubber
bands ..... a short distance below the surface.'


Only one bundle the FBI said today has been found at the new location ...

Post Standard Feb 14, 1980: "FBI agent Ralph Himmelsbach said more money was dug up by agents Tuesday
afternoon and Wednesday morning" ... "The first money was found in three packages all bound together by
rubber bands" ... "One agent at the site said he also dug up a formless fist-size clump of money he described
as "a wadded up bunch of rotted #20 dollar bills."


'The conservator at the auction company said she has identified 15 more serial numbers, and parts of others,
for a total of perhaps 25 new numbers, and she wonders what additional serial numbers the insurance company
and the FBI money would reveal. It's obviously something more than $5800 which was the published figure.


3-Bundolas! :)

Im sorry for the margin wrap problems - have no idea and frankly no longer care to solve it - it is what it is.



 
« Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 12:16:31 AM by georger »
 

Offline hom

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #49 on: March 14, 2014, 12:42:12 AM »
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Im expressing my deep frustration that "Tres Bundolas" has been fixicated in the lexicon. Let's cover some historical
territory: (you have no idea how much work it took me to :dredge: the following quotes out. 

Vancouver WASH/UPI Feb20 1980: Only one money "bundle" from the $200,000 hijacking ransom given master
criminal D.B. Cooper eight years ago has been found, the FBI said today. "It's all from one bundle",  said John
Pringle, assistant special agent in charge . . . . 


book: "After Ingram's find of part of one bundle FBI agents found a few more dirty fragments of bills . . .

Daily Record Feb 15, 1980...: "This is the area where a Vancouver picnicking family last Sunday stumbled on a
tattered wad of bills buried three to six inches of sand. The wad had remains of a rubber band around it... 


Spokane Wash February 15, 1980 ... "Pringle disagreed with Himmelsbach's idea on when the money arrived ...
the total amount  that was there prior to the find is undetermined ...


Spokesman Review, 20 Feb 1960: "Meanwhile the FBI said geologists concluded the less than one bundle . . . 

Portland, Feb 20 1980: 'The boy ..... turned up three bundles of money ... appeared to be wrapped with rubber
bands ..... a short distance below the surface.'


Only one bundle the FBI said today has been found at the new location ...

Post Standard Feb 14, 1980: "FBI agent Ralph Himmelsbach said more money was dug up by agents Tuesday
afternoon and Wednesday morning" ... "The first money was found in three packages all bound together by
rubber bands" ... "One agent at the site said he also dug up a formless fist-size clump of money he described
as "a wadded up bunch of rotted #20 dollar bills."


'The conservator at the auction company said she has identified 15 more serial numbers, and parts of others,
for a total of perhaps 25 new numbers, and she wonders what additional serial numbers the insurance company
and the FBI money would reveal. It's obviously something more than $5800 which was the published figure.


Im sorry for the margin wrap problems - have no idea and frankly no longer care to solve it - it is what it is.

You musta magically fixed it.  I don't see any margin wrap problem in this post.

I think the possibility should be considered of there being "bundles" and "bundles."  What if there were "packets" (bundles) each containing about $2000, and that some numbers of these were bundled together.
 

georger

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #50 on: March 14, 2014, 01:08:46 AM »
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Im expressing my deep frustration that "Tres Bundolas" has been fixicated in the lexicon. Let's cover some historical
territory: (you have no idea how much work it took me to :dredge: the following quotes out. 

Vancouver WASH/UPI Feb20 1980: Only one money "bundle" from the $200,000 hijacking ransom given master
criminal D.B. Cooper eight years ago has been found, the FBI said today. "It's all from one bundle",  said John
Pringle, assistant special agent in charge . . . . 


book: "After Ingram's find of part of one bundle FBI agents found a few more dirty fragments of bills . . .

Daily Record Feb 15, 1980...: "This is the area where a Vancouver picnicking family last Sunday stumbled on a
tattered wad of bills buried three to six inches of sand. The wad had remains of a rubber band around it... 


Spokane Wash February 15, 1980 ... "Pringle disagreed with Himmelsbach's idea on when the money arrived ...
the total amount  that was there prior to the find is undetermined ...


Spokesman Review, 20 Feb 1960: "Meanwhile the FBI said geologists concluded the less than one bundle . . . 

Portland, Feb 20 1980: 'The boy ..... turned up three bundles of money ... appeared to be wrapped with rubber
bands ..... a short distance below the surface.'


Only one bundle the FBI said today has been found at the new location ...

Post Standard Feb 14, 1980: "FBI agent Ralph Himmelsbach said more money was dug up by agents Tuesday
afternoon and Wednesday morning" ... "The first money was found in three packages all bound together by
rubber bands" ... "One agent at the site said he also dug up a formless fist-size clump of money he described
as "a wadded up bunch of rotted #20 dollar bills."


'The conservator at the auction company said she has identified 15 more serial numbers, and parts of others,
for a total of perhaps 25 new numbers, and she wonders what additional serial numbers the insurance company
and the FBI money would reveal. It's obviously something more than $5800 which was the published figure.


Im sorry for the margin wrap problems - have no idea and frankly no longer care to solve it - it is what it is.

You musta magically fixed it.  I don't see any margin wrap problem in this post.

I think the possibility should be considered of there being "bundles" and "bundles."  What if there were "packets" (bundles) each containing about $2000, and that some numbers of these were bundled together.

The fact is, there is nothing to document more than '3 bundles'. Tom etal went up to Seattle and apparently found
nothing to confirm more than 3 bundles. So we are restricted to 3 bundle theory alone. And that's it. 3 bundles or
the highway ...

Coop tried to give Tina 3 bundles. OK. Stuck it back in his coat pocket when she declined. OK. The truth of that no
longer matters.

I wont go off the sanctioned rails again.  ;D

   
« Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 01:10:37 AM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #51 on: March 14, 2014, 02:41:46 AM »
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One hypothesis about the money find that has not received any attention as far as I know is the notion that the FBI planted the money at Tina Bar to throw the public and us off the trail.  Consider this:

We know that the ground search in the Ariel area was modest in the extreme.  It was conducted primarily by the locals and the feds called them off after four days.  According to the under-sheriff who coordinated the ground search, his groups only covered about one square mile out of about 20. 

At the same time we now know that the feds spent two weeks searching in the Washougal, according to Special Agent Gary Tallis at the Portland Symposium.

Also, Rataczak told me his was east of Victor 23 and Himms says that Bill told him he was flying over the Washougal when Cooper jumped.

So consider that the feds got a good lead on Cooper on the upper slopes of the Washougal or captured him directly. Then some major spin game commenced and pick your favorite reason for a Cooper cover-up - covert ops in Vietnam, funky SAGE radar, or Cooper had pix of J Edgar in corpus delecti.

This angle suggests the Ariel ground search was superfluous and merely a ploy to keep the locals and lookie-loos out of the feds' hair.

So maybe the FBI got everything eventually up on the Washougal - the money, the body, all the chutes and stuff, and then decided to keep quiet about it all. As icing on the cake, they planted twenties at Tina Bar as a major mind-fuck to anyone looking closely.

Wild?  Yeah, but it connects so many dots.

Consider this- If you had a really big secret to keep secret what would you do?  How far would you go?  How far do you think the feds are willing to go to protect powerful people, Nat Security, etc?

Bruce, the FBI did not plant the money on Tina Bar ... any more than they planted the Moon in its orbit!

The only "Three Bundles" is in people minds ....


Okay, Georger, let's say you are 100% correct, and the feds didn't plant a thing.  Then why do we have so many inconsistencies about the ground search and the money find? Why was the immediate search in Ariel and Amboy so modest?  Why were the feds up in the Washougal for an extra week or two when they called off the ground search in Ariel? How come there was no substantive plume field at Tina Bar area? Where are the shards that Himms claims his team dug out of the sand?

I can accept the notion that the feds didn't plant the money, but plenty of other questions still await an answer.  I'm just trying to connect the dots; you make the call.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 02:48:09 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #52 on: March 14, 2014, 02:44:45 AM »
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Bruce:

The money find at Tina's bar just happens to be the same amount (three packs of $20 or $6,000) that DB offered the Flight Crew and they refused it! What would DB do then with the three packs of $20 as he has the bag tied up and around his waist? I think he put the three packs into the paper sack he brought on-board, rolled it up and stuffed it into his shirt. While jumping into the "blast", the paper bag could have been blown out of the shirt and be the carrier that took the three packs to some trees and then over the years to Tina's Bar. The sack would have provided floatation and protection for the three packs and kept them all together until time and weather left only the three pack in the sand. To me this is a logical explanation as to how the money got to Tina's Bar with out any "Monkey Business" on the part of the FBI and explains why the three packs were all stacked together as the bag kept them that way until dissolved.

Bob Sailshaw
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Sail, you and I have had a discussion about Los Tres Bundolas before, but we need to have it again.  Where do you get the idea that Cooper offered the Flight Attendants three bundles and then stuffed them into his shirt or jacket?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #53 on: March 14, 2014, 02:47:33 AM »
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Bruce:

The money find at Tina's bar just happens to be the same amount (three packs of $20 or $6,000) that DB offered the Flight Crew and they refused it! What would DB do then with the three packs of $20 as he has the bag tied up and around his waist? I think he put the three packs into the paper sack he brought on-board, rolled it up and stuffed it into his shirt. While jumping into the "blast", the paper bag could have been blown out of the shirt and be the carrier that took the three packs to some trees and then over the years to Tina's Bar. The sack would have provided floatation and protection for the three packs and kept them all together until time and weather left only the three pack in the sand. To me this is a logical explanation as to how the money got to Tina's Bar with out any "Monkey Business" on the part of the FBI and explains why the three packs were all stacked together as the bag kept them that way until dissolved.

Bob Sailshaw
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So what year did the neatly stacked three bundles get planted on Tina Bar, with what tool?

Did the planter wear shoes or galoshes or muck-lucks?

Was the planter missing the ring finger of his left hand?

I'll have to get back to you on this, Georger.  I need to do a bit of remote viewing on this, and that takes a while.  I'm not an instant-psychic-on-demand kind of guy...

...yet.
 

georger

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #54 on: March 14, 2014, 04:21:13 AM »
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One hypothesis about the money find that has not received any attention as far as I know is the notion that the FBI planted the money at Tina Bar to throw the public and us off the trail.  Consider this:

We know that the ground search in the Ariel area was modest in the extreme.  It was conducted primarily by the locals and the feds called them off after four days.  According to the under-sheriff who coordinated the ground search, his groups only covered about one square mile out of about 20. 

At the same time we now know that the feds spent two weeks searching in the Washougal, according to Special Agent Gary Tallis at the Portland Symposium.

Also, Rataczak told me his was east of Victor 23 and Himms says that Bill told him he was flying over the Washougal when Cooper jumped.

So consider that the feds got a good lead on Cooper on the upper slopes of the Washougal or captured him directly. Then some major spin game commenced and pick your favorite reason for a Cooper cover-up - covert ops in Vietnam, funky SAGE radar, or Cooper had pix of J Edgar in corpus delecti.

This angle suggests the Ariel ground search was superfluous and merely a ploy to keep the locals and lookie-loos out of the feds' hair.

So maybe the FBI got everything eventually up on the Washougal - the money, the body, all the chutes and stuff, and then decided to keep quiet about it all. As icing on the cake, they planted twenties at Tina Bar as a major mind-fuck to anyone looking closely.

Wild?  Yeah, but it connects so many dots.

Consider this- If you had a really big secret to keep secret what would you do?  How far would you go?  How far do you think the feds are willing to go to protect powerful people, Nat Security, etc?

Bruce, the FBI did not plant the money on Tina Bar ... any more than they planted the Moon in its orbit!

The only "Three Bundles" is in people minds ....


Okay, Georger, let's say you are 100% correct, and the feds didn't plant a thing.  Then why do we have so many inconsistencies about the ground search and the money find? Why was the immediate search in Ariel and Amboy so modest?  Why were the feds up in the Washougal for an extra week or two when they called off the ground search in Ariel? How come there was no substantive plume field at Tina Bar area? Where are the shards that Himms claims his team dug out of the sand?

I can accept the notion that the feds didn't plant the money, but plenty of other questions still await an answer.  I'm just trying to connect the dots; you make the call.

I have no answers. Just a little lab work done by Tom Kaye I was privy to for a while, a few FBI docs sent for background, a smattering of assumed knowledge of the rest of the case (possibly), a million unanswered questions,
and that about covers it.

$5800 is less than 3 bundles IF you assume 2000.00 per bundle. So which side was the missing bills on? Top. Bottom. Middle?

In my humble opinion no real answers are available/possible. I am now for the first time in my life very grateful I studied Godel's incompleteness theorem at the age of 18. I never thought it would come in handy. Boy was I mistaken!  :) :) :)

The whole Cooper case and every aspect of it is: Undecidable, as a formal fact of reality.

 
 
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #55 on: March 14, 2014, 06:34:21 AM »
A "bundle" of strapped cash a/k/a a "brick" contains 1,000 notes.

The 1,000 notes are a "bundle" of 10 "straps" of a single denomination of currency or notes.

Each strap contains 100 notes of single denomination. Therefore a "bundle" contains 10 straps X 100 notes which equal 1,000 notes.
If the notes are $20s (as in this example) then the value of 1 Strap = $2,000 and the value of 1 Bundle = $20,000.

100 notes is the worldwide standard count for one strap - regardless of denomination. 10 straps always = one bundle.

The U.S. Department of the Treasury packages twenty dollar bills in bundles of one-hundred. One bundle of twenty dollar bills is equal to $2,000. Bills packaged by the treasury department are bundled with paper straps fixed across their width.

didn't Carr say the "bundles" were different to make it appear the money was quickly put together? has the FBI ever concluded 100 bundles were in the bag?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 06:45:55 AM by shutter »
 

georger

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #56 on: March 14, 2014, 01:54:24 PM »
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A "bundle" of strapped cash a/k/a a "brick" contains 1,000 notes.

The 1,000 notes are a "bundle" of 10 "straps" of a single denomination of currency or notes.

Each strap contains 100 notes of single denomination. Therefore a "bundle" contains 10 straps X 100 notes which equal 1,000 notes.
If the notes are $20s (as in this example) then the value of 1 Strap = $2,000 and the value of 1 Bundle = $20,000.

100 notes is the worldwide standard count for one strap - regardless of denomination. 10 straps always = one bundle.

The U.S. Department of the Treasury packages twenty dollar bills in bundles of one-hundred. One bundle of twenty dollar bills is equal to $2,000. Bills packaged by the treasury department are bundled with paper straps fixed across their width.

didn't Carr say the "bundles" were different to make it appear the money was quickly put together? has the FBI ever concluded 100 bundles were in the bag?

Those who know or could help - aren't talking. Everything else is conjecture.

Ckret wrote:
Here is the problem with all of the folks that have been forwarded as Db Cooper, no evidence, none, not a piece and to top it off their dead (exception of Mayfield).

I don't mean to call anyone out, but give me just one document that directly supports just one claim made. So much has been brought forward, surely there exists just one small piece of paper that can support any part of a claim. i am not asking for proof that someone is or is not cooper, just one piece of paper that can support just one small aspect of a persons story.

Is that too much to ask for? you can go on and on and on (I'll put the little dots in so I don't have to keep writing on and on)...... But until you provide something that can support your claim it's just an interesting story. The New York Times best seller list is full of examples of interesting stories, its called fiction.

So, for those of you putting forward a person of interest and you are asserting it as a matter of fact, then "show me the facts" I can't hear you!!! say it louder "show me the facts!!!!" louder, I still can't hear you, "SHOW ME THE FACTS!!!!!" Now dance when you say it, "SHOW ME THE FACTS!!!!"

Thats better, now we have something to talk about.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #57 on: March 14, 2014, 11:23:28 PM »
Yes, Georger, our work on Norjak may be only an advanced course in Zen unemotionality.  So many questions, so few facts and even fewer answers.

But don't you think there is a compelling symmetry to the notion that the feds buried the money and were running a spin job cover-up?
 

georger

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #58 on: March 15, 2014, 01:50:44 PM »
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Yes, Georger, our work on Norjak may be only an advanced course in Zen unemotionality.  So many questions, so few facts and even fewer answers.

But don't you think there is a compelling symmetry to the notion that the feds buried the money and were running a spin job cover-up?

Well let me put it this way. At the Country Club a lot gets covered up. It's simply the nature of the place. See all those awnings covering up the parking area? Awning over the patio? No bird shall fowl our party! The food. Tee-off on No.1. The Mayor's daughter! The annual Cooper Surprise has been going on for 40+ years! Look at the cast of characters! Look who signed up here! There's your answer ... is that a conspiracy or Caddy Shack? Its not a cover up - it's layering. Everyone is strutting his or her stuff! Some just want to be seen but not heard (The Money Brothers!).  The Eyes & Ears of Texas are upon you .... you know the drill. But our Esteemed new President is keeping the Berserkers out... maybe!  ;) ;)

 
« Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 01:59:43 PM by georger »
 

Offline smokin99

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #59 on: March 15, 2014, 07:50:48 PM »
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Yes, Georger, our work on Norjak may be only an advanced course in Zen unemotionality.  So many questions, so few facts and even fewer answers.

But don't you think there is a compelling symmetry to the notion that the feds buried the money and were running a spin job cover-up?

Are you saying, after all this time, that in some ways, BK might actually not be full of caca?   ;) :)