Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1197846 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4320 on: July 05, 2019, 07:13:52 PM »
I don't have the photo of both spoils at the moment. here is a pic from Tom's site showing the northern spoil.
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4321 on: July 05, 2019, 07:18:15 PM »
Here is a photo show both spoils...
 
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Offline haggarknew

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4322 on: July 05, 2019, 07:27:21 PM »
Thank you Shutter. Very interesting. Hager said he witnessed them spreading spoils but I don't know from which pile.    Is the yellow mark in the first pic where they found the money?(the Ingrams)
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4323 on: July 05, 2019, 07:32:02 PM »
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Thank you Shutter. Very interesting. Hager said he witnessed them spreading spoils but I don't know from which pile.    Is the yellow mark in the first pic where they found the money?(the Ingrams)

The location is not accurate. it's close but not right.
 

Offline haggarknew

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4324 on: July 05, 2019, 07:39:10 PM »
Did they ever search for the money any further inland? I mean just a little inland from the tree line?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4325 on: July 05, 2019, 07:40:57 PM »
I don't think so....as far as I know.
 

Offline haggarknew

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4326 on: July 05, 2019, 08:04:00 PM »
Did flood water ever spill(for lack of a better term) from the Fazios side down the embankment and into the river?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4327 on: July 05, 2019, 08:12:10 PM »
I hear of a flood in 78, I believe but can't find any records. Georger would be the one for that question or R99.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 08:12:41 PM by Shutter »
 
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Offline haggarknew

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4328 on: July 05, 2019, 08:19:36 PM »
Please don't get the wrong idea, I am not trying to infer anything, just curious. Hager had thoughts on how the money could have got there but said he really didn't know for sure.     
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4329 on: July 05, 2019, 08:44:30 PM »
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Please don't get the wrong idea, I am not trying to infer anything, just curious. Hager had thoughts on how the money could have got there but said he really didn't know for sure.   


With all due respect. he needs to get in line. he's not the only one who thinks they know..
 

Offline haggarknew

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4330 on: July 05, 2019, 09:04:40 PM »
Definitely no shortage of opinions around here lol.  Hag always said there were a lot of ways that the money could have got there. He said he really didn't know for sure. He said(emphatically) the only thing he knew for sure was it didn't get there by way of the Washuagul(sp?) water shed or from the aircraft flying directly over Tena Bar.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4331 on: July 06, 2019, 12:29:36 AM »
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Definitely no shortage of opinions around here lol.  Hag always said there were a lot of ways that the money could have got there. He said he really didn't know for sure. He said(emphatically) the only thing he knew for sure was it didn't get there by way of the Washuagul(sp?) water shed or from the aircraft flying directly over Tena Bar.

Had the hydrologist Bradley never brought up the Washougal, I doubt it would ever have been a part of the case.  The docs clearly indicate Bradley only brought it up as one 'flotation' option involving a tributary of the Columbia in the direction of where Himmelsbach thought Cooper might have jumped. Bradley even qualified his statement saying 'This is assuming that the bag floats during -ts passage and does not get stuck on the bottom of the river or get caught on any snags...'

The Himmelsbach east path Washougal washdown hypothesis, requires that the money (and container bag?) was sitting near the Washougal from 11-24-71 until at least December 2, 1977 when the Washougal was in flood, then "floats" to Tina Bar taking about 14 hours, such that a few bundles of bills spill out at Tina Bar to be found in 1980. Neither Bradley or Himmelsbach offered any advice for how this hypothesis could be tested. Himmelsbach just told everyone: "this is what happened". 

Himmelsbach was trying to kill two birds with one stone: the flight path and the money find.   

Himmelsbach then turned around and preached it as gospel .... with damned few buying! 

<edit> Bradley cites 1977 as a high water period in the region during which the Washougal was ten feet out of its banks. During that same period water at Tina Bar was over 12 feet! In fact, water levels at T_Bar rose in excess of 12 feet, 7 times between 1974 and 1980 alone. Bradley failed to cite that fact. I now suspect the Washougal was out of its banks at least fives time between 1974 and 1980! So under the high water hypothesis, Cooper money could have come down the Washougal during any of these high water periods! But when you are taking a pig to the State Fair, you always wax it so it stands out, just as Himmelsbach did with the Washougal Theory!   :)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 01:32:26 AM by georger »
 
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4332 on: July 06, 2019, 01:44:32 AM »
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Did flood water ever spill(for lack of a better term) from the Fazios side down the embankment and into the river?

Let me reply to this and to several other posts at the same time.  In 2013, Meyer Louie and I spent a day at Tina Bar and thoroughly checked out the embankment area between Tina Bar and the Fazio property.

A fellow named "Jon" (I don't know his last name but he had the keys to the Tina Bar gate) told us that he had visited Tina Bar on almost a daily basis for the previous 50 years.  He pointed to a railroad tie that was embedded in the embankment between the river and the Fazio dairy containment pit and said that it represented the highest water level that he had ever seen at Tina Bar.  There was no way to measure its elevation from the river water level, but my guess is that the railroad tie was at least 20 feet above the river surface or about 20 to 25 feet above sea level.  The railroad tie was also about two or three feet below the top of the embankment.

Jon also told us that he had never seen any river water flow onto the Fazio property at Tina Bar or seen any flow from the Fazio property into the river.  Meyer and I checked the Tina Bar area as best we could including going over the containment pit, which was dry, with metal detectors.

The FBI appears to have checked the area for some distance from the water's edge.  I do not know of anything that would suggest that their search was not comprehensive.  But it might have been a good idea to check along the water's edge further upstream and downstream from the money find location than they actually did.

To repeat, it appears that the bill packets and fragments were found relatively close to the water's edge and that nothing was found further away.
 
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Offline Kermit

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4333 on: July 06, 2019, 11:33:00 AM »
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Did flood water ever spill(for lack of a better term) from the Fazios side down the embankment and into the river?

Let me reply to this and to several other posts at the same time.  In 2013, Meyer Louie and I spent a day at Tina Bar and thoroughly checked out the embankment area between Tina Bar and the Fazio property.

A fellow named "Jon" (I don't know his last name but he had the keys to the Tina Bar gate) told us that he had visited Tina Bar on almost a daily basis for the previous 50 years.  He pointed to a railroad tie that was embedded in the embankment between the river and the Fazio dairy containment pit and said that it represented the highest water level that he had ever seen at Tina Bar.  There was no way to measure its elevation from the river water level, but my guess is that the railroad tie was at least 20 feet above the river surface or about 20 to 25 feet above sea level.  The railroad tie was also about two or three feet below the top of the embankment.

Jon also told us that he had never seen any river water flow onto the Fazio property at Tina Bar or seen any flow from the Fazio property into the river.  Meyer and I checked the Tina Bar area as best we could including going over the containment pit, which was dry, with metal detectors.

The FBI appears to have checked the area for some distance from the water's edge.  I do not know of anything that would suggest that their search was not comprehensive.  But it might have been a good idea to check along the water's edge further upstream and downstream from the money find location than they actually did.

To repeat, it appears that the bill packets and fragments were found relatively close to the water's edge and that nothing was found further away.
Your Fisherman is telling a story that is NOT backed up by facts ! Ask β€œ Jon β€œ your fisherman where he was during the Christmas flood of 1964 or the β€œ Pineapple Express flood of 1996 β€œ ! I lived there and both those floods exceeded 27 ft. The Vanport flood exceeded 31 feet in 1948 and yes I hate to admit I witnessed that one also. I count at least 6 floods since 1964 that exceeded 21 feet so where was Jon during those floods ? My point is that facts dispute Jon’s story.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4334 on: July 06, 2019, 11:57:04 AM »
The flood of 1996 is shown on the Clark County website. the whole area was underwater. T bar was 90% covered.

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