Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1178879 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3930 on: September 22, 2018, 02:18:28 AM »
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Tom's statement is a blatant contradiction: How?

(a) The information collected by the FBI, combined with the known positions of the dredge pipes, suggests that the money find was not within the area covered by the dredging material.

(b) The new information now indicates that the dredging operation did not transport the bills from the bottom of the Columbia River but could have been a contributing factor to the bills staying buried until 1980.

No dredging material was at the Ingram site but the dredging material NOT AT THE INGRAM SITE COVERED THE INGRAM SITE SO MONEY NOT FOUND THERE UNTIL YEARs LATER !

And a partridge in a pear tree, too! 

 :congrats:

I considered this too, but it is actually correct. Here's why:

Obviously the beach has eroded up to the dirt road on Tena Bar since the 1974 dredge. Furthermore, it is likely that eventually the road itself will disappear due to erosion.

On the other hand, if dredging had continued per normal as of 1974 with the spoils being placed on the beach there would likely have been no erosion, or at least a minimal amount. Therefore one can deduce that spreading dredge spoils on Tena Bar did stop, or significantly mitigate, erosion on Tena Bar.

This is interesting because I don't think anyone would argue that dredge spoils were actually spread or piled onto the road itself. Yet, eventually the road will be washed away because of the lack of spoils on Tena Bar. The same principle would apply to the money find spot. In other words, spoils don't actually have to reside atop of the spot itself to prevent erosion at the spot.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I seriously doubt that dredging spoils dumped at sites #1 and #2 "saved the whole of Tina Bar" from disappearing clear up to the road behind it, and along with it the Ingram find site. If that is what Tom is trying to suggest.

The issue is did spoils shift or work their way north (downstream) carrying the Ingram money with it. Tom says "no" but I don't know of any data that models how material shifts and moves on Tina Bar. It's just a remarkable coincidence that the money and the dredging location were as close together as they were.   

In addition to that, if you concede the Ingram site area looks like a confined debris field, even down to 1 foot below the surface, what would account for a littered debris field like that? Of course Tom claims that does not exist either. Tom claims the Ingram money came to Tina Bar in 1971. Put that in your calculator!   ;)

 
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 02:56:28 AM by georger »
 

Offline 73blazer

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3931 on: September 22, 2018, 01:08:09 PM »
I never understood this stmt by Tom, that money came to Tina bar shortly and within a year of the highjacking. Based on their own rubber band analysis, the rubber bands even buried should have long disintegrated by the find in 1980. I would maintain the money came to Tina Bar within a year of the find, and was kept prior somewhere where the bands would not disintegrate which suggests a plant then, yes I know. I don't know of any other way the bands would have been intact the way they were, if they were outside whether in water, buried in sand, ran through a dredge, washed down by a flood...whatever else...if they had been outside from 1971-1980, the bands would have been long gone.  For the bands to have been in tact, they would have had to been in a protected environment most of that time.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3932 on: September 22, 2018, 01:15:56 PM »
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I never understood this stmt by Tom, that money came to Tina bar shortly and within a year of the highjacking. Based on their own rubber band analysis, the rubber bands even buried should have long disintegrated by the find in 1980. I would maintain the money came to Tina Bar within a year of the find, and was kept prior somewhere where the bands would not disintegrate which suggests a plant then, yes I know. I don't know of any other way the bands would have been intact the way they were, if they were outside whether in water, buried in sand, ran through a dredge, washed down by a flood...whatever else...if they had been outside from 1971-1980, the bands would have been long gone.  For the bands to have been in tact, they would have had to been in a protected environment most of that time.

What Tom is saying, and I think it's accurate, is that the money was buried at Tena Bar virtually the entire time since the hijacking. As for me, I believe the money was buried the night of the hijacking.

Buried in sand at a depth of a couple of feet I believe the rubber bands could survive to the degree that they survived. They're synthetic therefore would last longer than an organic item such as paper.

It's also important to note that the bills were tested for diatoms and none were found. This is consistent with being buried in an oxygen-poor environment.
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Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3933 on: September 22, 2018, 01:57:32 PM »
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I never understood this stmt by Tom, that money came to Tina bar shortly and within a year of the highjacking. Based on their own rubber band analysis, the rubber bands even buried should have long disintegrated by the find in 1980. I would maintain the money came to Tina Bar within a year of the find, and was kept prior somewhere where the bands would not disintegrate which suggests a plant then, yes I know. I don't know of any other way the bands would have been intact the way they were, if they were outside whether in water, buried in sand, ran through a dredge, washed down by a flood...whatever else...if they had been outside from 1971-1980, the bands would have been long gone.  For the bands to have been in tact, they would have had to been in a protected environment most of that time.

What Tom is saying, and I think it's accurate, is that the money was buried at Tena Bar virtually the entire time since the hijacking. As for me, I believe the money was buried the night of the hijacking.

Buried in sand at a depth of a couple of feet I believe the rubber bands could survive to the degree that they survived. They're synthetic therefore would last longer than an organic item such as paper.

It's also important to note that the bills were tested for diatoms and none were found. This is consistent with being buried in an oxygen-poor environment.

The bills were NOT tested for diatoms! Tom just didnt observe any. Tests for diatoms conducted at U-Wash by a leading authority were stopped, due to interference from JT and Brian Ingram@!

Do you believe the bands went through a melt-transition phase? At what temperature?

Would sulfur bonds weaken slower or faster if buried by hand vs naturally buried?

Are you now an associate of Tom's - on his team?

Also - is there anything you are unsure about in this matter and looking for answers to, that others could help with?
   


« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 02:01:35 PM by georger »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3934 on: September 22, 2018, 02:18:28 PM »
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I never understood this stmt by Tom, that money came to Tina bar shortly and within a year of the highjacking. Based on their own rubber band analysis, the rubber bands even buried should have long disintegrated by the find in 1980. I would maintain the money came to Tina Bar within a year of the find, and was kept prior somewhere where the bands would not disintegrate which suggests a plant then, yes I know. I don't know of any other way the bands would have been intact the way they were, if they were outside whether in water, buried in sand, ran through a dredge, washed down by a flood...whatever else...if they had been outside from 1971-1980, the bands would have been long gone.  For the bands to have been in tact, they would have had to been in a protected environment most of that time.

What Tom is saying, and I think it's accurate, is that the money was buried at Tena Bar virtually the entire time since the hijacking. As for me, I believe the money was buried the night of the hijacking.

Buried in sand at a depth of a couple of feet I believe the rubber bands could survive to the degree that they survived. They're synthetic therefore would last longer than an organic item such as paper.

It's also important to note that the bills were tested for diatoms and none were found. This is consistent with being buried in an oxygen-poor environment.

The bills were NOT tested for diatoms! Tom just didnt observe any. Tests for diatoms conducted at U-Wash by a leading authority were stopped, due to interference from JT and Brian Ingram@!

Do you believe the bands went through a melt-transition phase? At what temperature?

Would sulfur bonds weaken slower or faster if buried by hand vs naturally buried?

Are you now an associate of Tom's - on his team?

Also - is there anything you are unsure about in this matter and looking for answers to, that others could help with?
 

Let's cut to the chase...how did the money get to Tena Bar?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3935 on: September 22, 2018, 03:14:40 PM »
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Lets assume the rubber bands were original. Then that leads to the idea that the money was buried there when the rubber bands were "fresh". If the bands were fresh, then it must have happened shortly after the crime. Then how do you keep them buried all those years? The dredging operations replenished the sand on the beach. The beach was much larger in the 70's, in the 80's, 90's and today it has become minimal, reinforcing the idea that something was keeping the beach intact before 1980.  SO the story we propose is that the money with fresh bands was buried shortly after 1971 (don't know how or why) the dredging kept sand over it until the late 70's when dredging stopped. From there the beach started eroding, the money ended up near the surface and Brian found it. The fragments indicate that the money was intact when first buried and then the fragments came away during decomposition which takes a long time. We have had money buried in Tena bar sand for half a decade and it still looks good. Fragments = long time, rubber bands = long time, money still in bundles = running through a suction dredge is highly unlikely. We have shown how money fans out if it is in water held by a rubber band. There is no hint of a bag or container so to add that to the story is pure speculation. Again I will remind everyone we have absolutely NO IDEA how the money got to Tena.

The other idea is that someone in the late 70's buried the money on the beach. For me to consider that you would have to give a reasonable motivation why someone would do that years later.

Tom's other theory... not only is the burial in 1971 in play.

This is exactly the theory I am looking at.

The TBAR money was "discarded", not planted, around 1976-1978..
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3936 on: September 23, 2018, 12:45:56 AM »
Life is a lot simpler if I dont think about, or talk about, Tena. Bar!  8)
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 12:46:26 AM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3937 on: September 23, 2018, 10:31:35 AM »
Keep in mind, there is only "one" correct solution for the money at Tina Bar. Not 1056 solutions on every Monday in creation: one for every suspect someone is sure was DB Cooper who would have "done it this or that way if I was Cooper"!

The math is clear.  ;)

In addition, people are kind of prone to picking up valuables (money, gemstones, and precious metals) when they see it on the sidewalk or at their favorite busy fishing hole. The Fazios said they were there the day before the money was found and they didn't see anything. They obviously didn't have cows and children with them, to do their lookin for them!  :) 

« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 10:55:26 AM by georger »
 

Offline 73blazer

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3938 on: September 23, 2018, 11:20:22 AM »


Well, it's well known in investigative circles, when the evidence creates more questions than answers, usually there is human intervention behind it. That opens up all kinds of possibilities.  One of my favorites has been Brians dad found the money elsewhere, after realizing it was useless in it's current form , buried it where he knew his son would find it (wasn't there one report where he actually pointedly told little Brian exactly where to build his fire?) ... with the thought of, they'll have to replace it for a kid. It sounds crazy, but with Tina bar, anything is possible because almost none of it makes any sense.
Was Brians dad known to frequent other areas around there, namely the hills in and around Ariel and Merwin dam? Has anyone ever really asked him, hey did you find this $$$ somewhere else????
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3939 on: September 23, 2018, 11:35:37 AM »
In my mind the evidence points to the money having been buried at Tena Bar by human intervention. If human intervention was not involved a remarkable series of things have to occur which I do not believe are possible. Beyond that, who knows.

Regardless, I don't think it helps to look at this info in a vacuum. It makes sense to look at other evidence and factors and attempt to explain how these things fit together. There is nothing wrong with this approach.

One thing I know for certain, there is an explanation.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3940 on: September 23, 2018, 03:08:04 PM »
It's very common for a father to tell his son where to build a fire..we went camping for almost 20 years starting when I was about 6 years old..my dad would tell me at every campsite where to build a fire..me and my bother had to level the trailer once my dad backed it in, then put the jacks under it, hookup the water and electricity, turn on the propane..once everything was set he would say dig right here...then we had to go and find firewood for the evening..we even had a permanent spot where we would go camping on the weekends..every year we would go to either Florida or Canada for vacation using our RV..kids will typically find a spot and fail to lookup or notice that they are too close to something so dad always picked the spot..

 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3941 on: September 23, 2018, 03:39:41 PM »
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Well, it's well known in investigative circles, when the evidence creates more questions than answers, usually there is human intervention behind it. That opens up all kinds of possibilities.  One of my favorites has been Brians dad found the money elsewhere, after realizing it was useless in it's current form , buried it where he knew his son would find it (wasn't there one report where he actually pointedly told little Brian exactly where to build his fire?) ... with the thought of, they'll have to replace it for a kid. It sounds crazy, but with Tina bar, anything is possible because almost none of it makes any sense.
Was Brians dad known to frequent other areas around there, namely the hills in and around Ariel and Merwin dam? Has anyone ever really asked him, hey did you find this $$$ somewhere else????

The Ingrams were newly arrived at Portland. Maybe they had connections in Nevada who knew Cooper who had jumped outside of Reno! Bring a few bills all the way back to Portland to throw everyone off!

Forget the complicated drug story. Now think "diversion". See ... I can make stuff up too!

At the same time as Im inventing this I also know of a lab reports that place the money in the Columbia Basin and nowhere else... for years. Its that little stuff in a vacuum that becomes important.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3942 on: September 23, 2018, 03:44:48 PM »
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In my mind the evidence points to the money having been buried at Tena Bar by human intervention. If human intervention was not involved a remarkable series of things have to occur which I do not believe are possible. Beyond that, who knows.

Regardless, I don't think it helps to look at this info in a vacuum. It makes sense to look at other evidence and factors and attempt to explain how these things fit together. There is nothing wrong with this approach.

One thing I know for certain, there is an explanation.

Nope. Has to be more than a money burial. At the least it must be a "burial" or "replacement" of a whole section of beach ... which only the greys have the technology to do! From their ufo conducting cow mutilations at the Fazios.  Bury a few Cooper twenties in beachfront sand aged appropriately. I'll bet the greys had steak that night@!
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3943 on: September 23, 2018, 03:59:41 PM »
Hey guys! I am Tina Tell and Im lonely! I am commonly called Tina Bar. I am a trashy vamp. Have lots of stuff in my sands. Old nails, metals, pieces of metal, old pop cans, wood, you name it its there! All mixed up in my cross bedded sands. Neptune the God of the Water comes to visit me every minute of my life. Neptune and I get all entangled. Then one day comes along all of this money. People got very upset. They are still getting upset! They say the money does not belong here, and I ask "why is that? Everything else belongs here!". I'm the one who should be upset! I didnt ask for all of these visitors and traffic! Please! Somebody come and get all of this money outta here! So I can collect one thing but not the other. Take the money and while you're at it take the nails too. I never did like nails. Nails dont belong here! Take the diatoms too. In fact you can take the sand too! I never did much care for sand either, even though I am a sand bar.     
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 04:02:12 PM by georger »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3944 on: September 23, 2018, 04:49:46 PM »
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Hey guys! I am Tina Tell and Im lonely! I am commonly called Tina Bar. I am a trashy vamp. Have lots of stuff in my sands. Old nails, metals, pieces of metal, old pop cans, wood, you name it its there! All mixed up in my cross bedded sands. Neptune the God of the Water comes to visit me every minute of my life. Neptune and I get all entangled. Then one day comes along all of this money. People got very upset. They are still getting upset! They say the money does not belong here, and I ask "why is that? Everything else belongs here!". I'm the one who should be upset! I didnt ask for all of these visitors and traffic! Please! Somebody come and get all of this money outta here! So I can collect one thing but not the other. Take the money and while you're at it take the nails too. I never did like nails. Nails dont belong here! Take the diatoms too. In fact you can take the sand too! I never did much care for sand either, even though I am a sand bar.     

I actually really enjoyed this piece. It's sort of a blend of Hunter S. Thompson and a Picasso. Bold statements, nuanced implications and a dash of light-hardheartedness. Well done.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 
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