Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1191702 times)

Offline 377

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3810 on: May 03, 2018, 01:40:13 PM »
So Rackstraw wastes 50K, dumping it to show he died in the jump, then writes a series of letters with encrypted info relating to his unique Vietnam assignments to prove he didn't die? Someone, please explain.

377
 
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Offline RaoulDuke24

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3811 on: May 03, 2018, 02:38:37 PM »
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So Rackstraw wastes 50K, dumping it to show he died in the jump, then writes a series of letters with encrypted info relating to his unique Vietnam assignments to prove he didn't die? Someone, please explain.

377

I actually never even realized that hypocrisy in the story. That is funny though.

"I'm dead! Here's the money to prove it!" 

"No wait ... I'm alive! Here's the notes to prove it!"

And don't forget about the woman who spent one hour talking to Rackstraw at a college party and never saw him ever again but was then able to recognize him in a photo 45 years later. Hope my memory is that good in old age.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 02:40:18 PM by RaoulDuke24 »
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3812 on: May 03, 2018, 03:41:15 PM »
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So Rackstraw wastes 50K, dumping it to show he died in the jump, then writes a series of letters with encrypted info relating to his unique Vietnam assignments to prove he didn't die? Someone, please explain.

377

But if you notice, the skeleton of TCs theory is composed of actual alleged events with real witnesses as the source. TC got some of these from 302s with real people and real tips involved. The problem is some of these events/tips were chased down by the FBI and proved not to be what TC is claiming! The airplane sightings/reports for one were all explained after meticulous investigations involving witnesses and airport FAA records. Obviously TC's socalled sleuths and experts are not familiar with the real facts, or, they are denying the real facts.

TC's money theory reads like a piece of science fiction because it is fiction!   His theory is composed of impossible or fictional components pasted together. I was astounded when I first read it! It looks like something a 1st grader put together!! Go Avengers! Go Spiderman. Go Superman. Go Vols! :rofl:

« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 05:49:58 PM by georger »
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3813 on: May 11, 2018, 09:56:15 AM »
   Johnnie Greene says:   
May 11, 2018 at 1:49 am   

Robert, the NB8 is a NAVY chute designed for emergency bailout. It was not designed to be mated to a front pack. Highly reliable. Cooper figured this out and used the spare front canister for packing the money.


-

and then he changed it back again. He put the money back in the bank bag! And then he tied cord around the bag and was tying cord around his waste when Tina last saw him. This is what Tina reported when she entered the cockpit and described what she had seen to the crew. And she said: 'I think he will bail soon'.

And then Cooper jumped.

Read the transcript.

 
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 10:00:16 AM by georger »
 

Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3814 on: May 11, 2018, 01:14:56 PM »
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So Rackstraw wastes 50K, dumping it to show he died in the jump, then writes a series of letters with encrypted info relating to his unique Vietnam assignments to prove he didn't die? Someone, please explain.

377
Go Vols! :rofl:

YES!!
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3815 on: July 25, 2018, 03:24:16 PM »
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   Johnnie Greene says:   
May 11, 2018 at 1:49 am   

Robert, the NB8 is a NAVY chute designed for emergency bailout. It was not designed to be mated to a front pack. Highly reliable. Cooper figured this out and used the spare front canister for packing the money.


-

and then he changed it back again. He put the money back in the bank bag! And then he tied cord around the bag and was tying cord around his waste when Tina last saw him. This is what Tina reported when she entered the cockpit and described what she had seen to the crew. And she said: 'I think he will bail soon'.

And then Cooper jumped.

Read the transcript.

 

I have often wondered why some people over the years think there was good chance the money, or some of it, came loose and flew away on the jump.  I think that is so unlikely.  Parachute cord, some of the strongest, durable cord around -- and if Cooper did a decent job of wrapping up the bag and securing it to his body with that cord -- which I think he was motivated to do (afterall, he risked his life extorting $200K) -- then the likelihood the bag came loose in the jump is unlikely.  How unlikely?  No one really knows, but it seems to me he would have been really motivated to secure that money with all his might.  And I think he did, it didn't come loose.

Tom Kaye did a little experiment in the Washougal River where he put bills at the end of a fishing line and watched to see how far the bills would float down the River.  Of course the bills wouldn't float very far -- they would get waterlogged and sink rather quickly.  Somehow the bills would have ended up at Tina Bar, neatly stacked and with bands in tact, if they had somehow floated, freely exposed, down river, or if the packets had been put into a paper bag and thrown into the Columbia River from somewhere upstream -- either scenario is so unlikely.  One possible explanation: the bills had to have been in the bag all along, right up to the time of delivery at Tina Bar. 

Lots more I could say here, but I am hoping this post encourages some debate, and fist-fighting, on the forum.  Ha ha, just kidding.

MeyerLouie
« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 03:33:46 PM by MeyerLouie »
 
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Offline sry828

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3816 on: July 26, 2018, 09:44:15 AM »
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I have often wondered why some people over the years think there was good chance the money, or some of it, came loose and flew away on the jump.  I think that is so unlikely.  Parachute cord, some of the strongest, durable cord around -- and if Cooper did a decent job of wrapping up the bag and securing it to his body with that cord -- which I think he was motivated to do (afterall, he risked his life extorting $200K) -- then the likelihood the bag came loose in the jump is unlikely.  How unlikely?  No one really knows, but it seems to me he would have been really motivated to secure that money with all his might.  And I think he did, it didn't come loose.

Tom Kaye did a little experiment in the Washougal River where he put bills at the end of a fishing line and watched to see how far the bills would float down the River.  Of course the bills wouldn't float very far -- they would get waterlogged and sink rather quickly.  Somehow the bills would have ended up at Tina Bar, neatly stacked and with bands in tact, if they had somehow floated, freely exposed, down river, or if the packets had been put into a paper bag and thrown into the Columbia River from somewhere upstream -- either scenario is so unlikely.  One possible explanation: the bills had to have been in the bag all along, right up to the time of delivery at Tina Bar. 

Lots more I could say here, but I am hoping this post encourages some debate, and fist-fighting, on the forum.  Ha ha, just kidding.

MeyerLouie

The description of Cooper's reaction when the money showed up in a bank bag has always been the thing that most influences me to think that Cooper knew what he was doing.  It's not necessarily the fact that he habitually carried a knife, or that he knew there would be enough cord in the parachute to secure the bank bag to himself (although those things do factor in).  It's the fact that the description didn't seem to describe any type of reaction.  For me, I would be noticeably flustered.  I would need to take a moment to consider whether I should demand a new bag, or try to rig something myself.  Then, I would probably first try to figure out whether I could repurpose the container for one of the chutes.  I wouldn't have immediately thought: "This is no big deal.  Parachute cord is plenty strong to secure this bag of money to myself."  I might eventually get to that conclusion, but the fact that Cooper got there quickly and seemingly without getting flustered, makes me think that Cooper had a background that allowed him to be comfortable making improvisations like that.
 
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georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3817 on: July 26, 2018, 04:02:16 PM »
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I have often wondered why some people over the years think there was good chance the money, or some of it, came loose and flew away on the jump.  I think that is so unlikely.  Parachute cord, some of the strongest, durable cord around -- and if Cooper did a decent job of wrapping up the bag and securing it to his body with that cord -- which I think he was motivated to do (afterall, he risked his life extorting $200K) -- then the likelihood the bag came loose in the jump is unlikely.  How unlikely?  No one really knows, but it seems to me he would have been really motivated to secure that money with all his might.  And I think he did, it didn't come loose.

Tom Kaye did a little experiment in the Washougal River where he put bills at the end of a fishing line and watched to see how far the bills would float down the River.  Of course the bills wouldn't float very far -- they would get waterlogged and sink rather quickly.  Somehow the bills would have ended up at Tina Bar, neatly stacked and with bands in tact, if they had somehow floated, freely exposed, down river, or if the packets had been put into a paper bag and thrown into the Columbia River from somewhere upstream -- either scenario is so unlikely.  One possible explanation: the bills had to have been in the bag all along, right up to the time of delivery at Tina Bar. 

Lots more I could say here, but I am hoping this post encourages some debate, and fist-fighting, on the forum.  Ha ha, just kidding.

MeyerLouie

The description of Cooper's reaction when the money showed up in a bank bag has always been the thing that most influences me to think that Cooper knew what he was doing.  It's not necessarily the fact that he habitually carried a knife, or that he knew there would be enough cord in the parachute to secure the bank bag to himself (although those things do factor in).  It's the fact that the description didn't seem to describe any type of reaction.  For me, I would be noticeably flustered.  I would need to take a moment to consider whether I should demand a new bag, or try to rig something myself.  Then, I would probably first try to figure out whether I could repurpose the container for one of the chutes.  I wouldn't have immediately thought: "This is no big deal.  Parachute cord is plenty strong to secure this bag of money to myself."  I might eventually get to that conclusion, but the fact that Cooper got there quickly and seemingly without getting flustered, makes me think that Cooper had a background that allowed him to be comfortable making improvisations like that.

Improvise and Adapt. Maybe ex Marine? Had a schedule to keep? Wants to get back in the air asap without interference so improvise and adapt ?
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3818 on: July 27, 2018, 04:24:59 AM »
I concur. DBC's behaviors indicate lots of experience and training in improvisation and adaptation.
 
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Offline haggarknew

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3819 on: July 27, 2018, 08:22:35 AM »
as per last posts...         I would tend to agree with sry828's observation.I think it remarkable how composed he seemed to be, considering the situation.He seems confident in his ability to get the job done.Not sure if this reflects on past military experience or confidence in his planning of the heist.I wonder how many of us would act  as composed.Not me for sure.
.                              on a side note...        Thank you Shutter very much for allowing me back into the fold. I apologise to you and anyone else I have offended in the past.Sometimes my emotions get the best of me,not that it justifies my behavior,just trying to explain.
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3820 on: July 28, 2018, 01:30:39 AM »
Welcome back, Haggar. I'm a big believer in second chances.
 
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georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3821 on: July 28, 2018, 06:02:24 PM »
Cant find R99s last post - he asked for a road map of TBar 1979 - here it is. Hope he finds it. It is false colored to make following roads easier.   North is up.  Yellow dots mark entrances I see. The northmost entrance was filmed by GreyCop for one of his videos. The north entrance road winds down to above the money find beach area, as shown in the KATU videos. 
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 06:13:39 PM by georger »
 

Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3822 on: July 28, 2018, 07:29:29 PM »
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Cant find R99s last post - he asked for a road map of TBar 1979 - here it is. Hope he finds it. It is false colored to make following roads easier.   North is up.  Yellow dots mark entrances I see. The northmost entrance was filmed by GreyCop for one of his videos. The north entrance road winds down to above the money find beach area, as shown in the KATU videos.

Georger, I think the road at the southernmost yellow dot only leads to the Fazios' sand operation.  But the next yellow dot up is the main entrance to the Fazio property.  If you take the road at the north end of the N/S long building west, you will pass the "feeding station" on the right and the square light area west of that is the containment pit.  The Tina Bar gate is at the southwest corner of the containment pit.
 

Offline sry828

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3823 on: August 03, 2018, 05:39:40 PM »
One of my favorite things about this forum is that it makes me look at things from other people's perspectives, which often go against my particular bias.  I had always believed strongly that Cooper did not have any accomplices, but seeing a number of posts from people who seem to believe that Cooper had a "ground man," made me decide to ask myself how one might plan the caper if a ground man was involved.  It made me think about the TBar find a little differently.  I'm wondering what people think about this angle:  If we were to try to pull off a skyjacking like this one, with 1971 technology, we'd have to figure out a way for the skyjacker to meet up with the ground man.  I feel like a plan that involves a step like "At 8:00, jump out of the plane and try to land on Main Street in Cinebar, where I'll be waiting." would be unrealistic.  The way I see it, the team would need to either agree on a primary meeting spot, and then a recurring meeting time, or they would need to agree on a range of meeting places, at a specific time.  For example, I feel like the first option would be to say something like: "After the landing, find a place to hide near Merwin Dam.  I'll drive on Lewis River Road and pass by Merwin Dam just as the sun is coming up each morning, and just as it is going down each day.  Make sure you can see Lewis River Road around sunup, and sunset, each day until we meet to flag me down."  The second option would be to say something like: "Make the jump when you can see the lights of Merwin Dam.  When you land, get to the I-5 as soon as you can.  I will keep driving up and down the stretch of the 1-5 between Rose Valley and Ridgefield.  When you see me, shoot off a flair."  The first option doesn't really allow much flexibility for jumping early / late.  The second option could allow for jumping earlier / later than expected, as long as the landmark is something that runs from North to South, like I-5 or the stretch of the Columbia River that runs north / south between Rainier and Vancouver.  If the plan was to do something like have Cooper get to that stretch of river as quickly as possible, while having a ground man travel north and south on it until the two meet up, that would provide a suitable way for the two to meet up.

The reason that I'm posting it here is that I feel like it also provides a possible explanation for why Cooper would be at TBar.  I know that still leaves the question of how the money ends up in shards several feet under the stacks.  My thought on that (and I would certainly welcome feedback from people who understand the science of this more than I do) is that Cooper may have wanted to stash the money until he could rendezvous with the ground man.  Digging a hole seems like a big risk, because of the time commitment.  Another option might be to weigh down the money bag, and put it in a somewhat shallow area of the river near some sort of landmark, with the goal of retrieving it later.  If that was what Cooper did, it seems like it would be easy to see how the team might have returned and not been able to find the money bag.  At some point in the nine years after that, the bag breaks open.  Most of the money ends up spilling out at some point.  The money that spills out gets broken up into shards by the elements, while the few packets that stay in the bank bag survive submerged in the dirt at the bottom of the river, until it gets scooped up for dredging.

I'm finishing up an absolutely brutal work week.  So, it's entirely possible that what I just typed makes no sense, or is full of holes.  If so, please let me know.
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3824 on: August 03, 2018, 07:33:25 PM »
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One of my favorite things about this forum is that it makes me look at things from other people's perspectives, which often go against my particular bias.  I had always believed strongly that Cooper did not have any accomplices, but seeing a number of posts from people who seem to believe that Cooper had a "ground man," made me decide to ask myself how one might plan the caper if a ground man was involved.  It made me think about the TBar find a little differently.  I'm wondering what people think about this angle:  If we were to try to pull off a skyjacking like this one, with 1971 technology, we'd have to figure out a way for the skyjacker to meet up with the ground man.  I feel like a plan that involves a step like "At 8:00, jump out of the plane and try to land on Main Street in Cinebar, where I'll be waiting." would be unrealistic.  The way I see it, the team would need to either agree on a primary meeting spot, and then a recurring meeting time, or they would need to agree on a range of meeting places, at a specific time.  For example, I feel like the first option would be to say something like: "After the landing, find a place to hide near Merwin Dam.  I'll drive on Lewis River Road and pass by Merwin Dam just as the sun is coming up each morning, and just as it is going down each day.  Make sure you can see Lewis River Road around sunup, and sunset, each day until we meet to flag me down."  The second option would be to say something like: "Make the jump when you can see the lights of Merwin Dam.  When you land, get to the I-5 as soon as you can.  I will keep driving up and down the stretch of the 1-5 between Rose Valley and Ridgefield.  When you see me, shoot off a flair."  The first option doesn't really allow much flexibility for jumping early / late.  The second option could allow for jumping earlier / later than expected, as long as the landmark is something that runs from North to South, like I-5 or the stretch of the Columbia River that runs north / south between Rainier and Vancouver.  If the plan was to do something like have Cooper get to that stretch of river as quickly as possible, while having a ground man travel north and south on it until the two meet up, that would provide a suitable way for the two to meet up.

The reason that I'm posting it here is that I feel like it also provides a possible explanation for why Cooper would be at TBar.  I know that still leaves the question of how the money ends up in shards several feet under the stacks.  My thought on that (and I would certainly welcome feedback from people who understand the science of this more than I do) is that Cooper may have wanted to stash the money until he could rendezvous with the ground man.  Digging a hole seems like a big risk, because of the time commitment.  Another option might be to weigh down the money bag, and put it in a somewhat shallow area of the river near some sort of landmark, with the goal of retrieving it later.  If that was what Cooper did, it seems like it would be easy to see how the team might have returned and not been able to find the money bag.  At some point in the nine years after that, the bag breaks open.  Most of the money ends up spilling out at some point.  The money that spills out gets broken up into shards by the elements, while the few packets that stay in the bank bag survive submerged in the dirt at the bottom of the river, until it gets scooped up for dredging.

I'm finishing up an absolutely brutal work week.  So, it's entirely possible that what I just typed makes no sense, or is full of holes.  If so, please let me know.

HAHA. no worries I spent a ton of time considering a ground accomplice. My conclusion, extremely unlikely.

My theories.. in order

#1 TBAR money was discarded (not planted) years later - not by Cooper

#2 Cooper landed in the Willamette Valley, some lost money came down the Willamette River.

#3 Cooper money came down the Lewis River to the Columbia, was clamshell dredged, barged up to Sauvie Island (half mile upstream of TBAR) for erosion mitigation in 1976/77, it came loose and crossed the river to TBAR.