Author Topic: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?  (Read 53766 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #120 on: October 07, 2015, 08:58:16 AM »
We are drifting off topic here guys....try and stay on topic please...
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #121 on: October 07, 2015, 04:04:25 PM »
Drift?

Is that from the 80 kph winds at 160 degrees or the gusts from SSW at 45 mph?
 

Offline EVickiW

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #122 on: November 02, 2015, 11:33:43 PM »
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We are drifting off topic here guys....try and stay on topic please...

A Minnesota kidnapping cold case from 1989 has been in the news lately. A person of interest was taken into custody for another crime and the MN Bureau of Criminal Apprehension (BCA) used DNA testing to bring this case forward. Because this case brought questions regarding the testing, the BCA's director of forensic science services, Catherine Knutson, held a news conference Monday to answer these questions, and the BCA released a recording of her comments.

From the article linked below:
 
"Knutson said DNA testing procedures used now are much more sensitive than those available in decades past, and can detect DNA from samples that are so small they can’t be seen with the naked eye.

“The different types of tests that have been implemented over the past 20 years really had one common goal, and that was to be able to get more information from a smaller piece of evidence,” Knutson said.

One example of that is so-called “touch DNA,” which can be found on items that have been touched by a suspect, such as a piece of clothing.

“We can target those types of areas and try to see if any DNA was left behind,” she said."


Here is the article:http://bringmethenews.com/2015/11/02/advances-in-dna-testing-at-the-heart-of-wetterling-case-developments/

« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 11:35:26 PM by EVickiW »
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
 

georger

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #123 on: November 03, 2015, 12:02:03 AM »
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We are drifting off topic here guys....try and stay on topic please...

A Minnesota kidnapping cold case from 1989 has been in the news lately. A person of interest was taken into custody for another crime and the MN Bureau of Criminal Apprehension (BCA) used DNA testing to bring this case forward. Because this case brought questions regarding the testing, the BCA's director of forensic science services, Catherine Knutson, held a news conference Monday to answer these questions, and the BCA released a recording of her comments.

From the article linked below:
 
"Knutson said DNA testing procedures used now are much more sensitive than those available in decades past, and can detect DNA from samples that are so small they can’t be seen with the naked eye.

“The different types of tests that have been implemented over the past 20 years really had one common goal, and that was to be able to get more information from a smaller piece of evidence,” Knutson said.

One example of that is so-called “touch DNA,” which can be found on items that have been touched by a suspect, such as a piece of clothing.

“We can target those types of areas and try to see if any DNA was left behind,” she said."


Here is the article:http://bringmethenews.com/2015/11/02/advances-in-dna-testing-at-the-heart-of-wetterling-case-developments/

This is all true. Next Gen testing came on board about three years ago, which replaced advanced methods in use before that. Every two or three years seems to see an expansion in genetic testing methods with more sensitivity-reliability of the tests. 
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 12:16:46 AM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #124 on: November 03, 2015, 07:05:19 PM »
This information is just in time!  Thanks- now I understand better what is going on in the forensics discussions on Law and Order!
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #125 on: December 05, 2015, 07:55:18 PM »
DNA Update

The discussion on DNA seems to be bouncing around, so I thought I'd redirect it, here. This is where the cigarette issue stands at this moment in time:

1. The DNA from the saliva is critical: first, it is the best source of DNA. Secondly, it avoids the chain of custody issues surrounding the tie and clasp.

2. We only have a thin line of evidence that the cigarette butts were tested for DNA. First, we have the report that Dennis Bounds at KING 5 TV in Seattle gave a report on the topic back in 2002 or so, via the statements of Ron and Pat Forman who saw Bounds on TV.

3. This suggest that Bounds was working off an FBI press release on the subject. I have an email into Ayn Dietrich-Williams to see if there are any media announcements in an archive that might help.

4. We also have a post by Ckret, as presented by Georger and emailed to me in 2013, where Carr says that the cigarettes had been tested in DC and were headed back to Seattle:

From Georger in 2013:
DNA, cigarette butts, evidence missing, 2.4.13

"...don't know that he said DNA -- just that they were "processed" in the lab.
From ckret post (in DZ):"

“Still looking for the cigarettes, after they were processed in the lab they were sent back to the field. So they are somewhere between Washington DC and Seattle or disposed of. Every spot on the plane possibly touched by Cooper was processed for prints. The seats he was sitting in were actually removed and sent to DC.”

5. I have an email out to Bounds to ask his assistance in this matter.

6. I have emailed Chris Ingalls, a KING 5 TV journalist, who has expressed interest in the DB Cooper story.

7. KING 5 TV archives are currently inaccessible, at least to mere mortals. I have asked for Divine Intervention in his matter. (C'mon God/Ramtha, can I catch a break here!!!)

8. The FBI "Index" makes no mention of DNA in its "DB Cooper" section. Alas.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 07:59:05 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

georger

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #126 on: December 06, 2015, 02:06:01 AM »
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DNA Update

The discussion on DNA seems to be bouncing around, so I thought I'd redirect it, here. This is where the cigarette issue stands at this moment in time:

1. The DNA from the saliva is critical: first, it is the best source of DNA. Secondly, it avoids the chain of custody issues surrounding the tie and clasp.

2. We only have a thin line of evidence that the cigarette butts were tested for DNA. First, we have the report that Dennis Bounds at KING 5 TV in Seattle gave a report on the topic back in 2002 or so, via the statements of Ron and Pat Forman who saw Bounds on TV.

3. This suggest that Bounds was working off an FBI press release on the subject. I have an email into Ayn Dietrich-Williams to see if there are any media announcements in an archive that might help.

4. We also have a post by Ckret, as presented by Georger and emailed to me in 2013, where Carr says that the cigarettes had been tested in DC and were headed back to Seattle:

From Georger in 2013:
DNA, cigarette butts, evidence missing, 2.4.13

"...don't know that he said DNA -- just that they were "processed" in the lab.
From ckret post (in DZ):"

“Still looking for the cigarettes, after they were processed in the lab they were sent back to the field. So they are somewhere between Washington DC and Seattle or disposed of. Every spot on the plane possibly touched by Cooper was processed for prints. The seats he was sitting in were actually removed and sent to DC.”

5. I have an email out to Bounds to ask his assistance in this matter.

6. I have emailed Chris Ingalls, a KING 5 TV journalist, who has expressed interest in the DB Cooper story.

7. KING 5 TV archives are currently inaccessible, at least to mere mortals. I have asked for Divine Intervention in his matter. (C'mon God/Ramtha, can I catch a break here!!!)

8. The FBI "Index" makes no mention of DNA in its "DB Cooper" section. Alas.

"We also have a post by Ckret, as presented by Georger and emailed to me in 2013" ... ???

Why would I be presenting a post by Ckret? Emailing it to you?  If Ckret posted this on DZ anyone can find and read it?  WTF are you doing-saying ??? 

Don't press your luck, Brucy-Baby!  :-*  You are beginning to piss people off - again.

What are you trying to pull here, behind everybody's back - a Blevins shortcut to fame & glory?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 02:18:25 AM by georger »
 

georger

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #127 on: December 06, 2015, 02:47:44 AM »
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DNA Update

The discussion on DNA seems to be bouncing around, so I thought I'd redirect it, here. This is where the cigarette issue stands at this moment in time:

1. The DNA from the saliva is critical: first, it is the best source of DNA. Secondly, it avoids the chain of custody issues surrounding the tie and clasp.

2. We only have a thin line of evidence that the cigarette butts were tested for DNA. First, we have the report that Dennis Bounds at KING 5 TV in Seattle gave a report on the topic back in 2002 or so, via the statements of Ron and Pat Forman who saw Bounds on TV.

3. This suggest that Bounds was working off an FBI press release on the subject. I have an email into Ayn Dietrich-Williams to see if there are any media announcements in an archive that might help.

4. We also have a post by Ckret, as presented by Georger and emailed to me in 2013, where Carr says that the cigarettes had been tested in DC and were headed back to Seattle:

From Georger in 2013:
DNA, cigarette butts, evidence missing, 2.4.13

"...don't know that he said DNA -- just that they were "processed" in the lab.
From ckret post (in DZ):"

“Still looking for the cigarettes, after they were processed in the lab they were sent back to the field. So they are somewhere between Washington DC and Seattle or disposed of. Every spot on the plane possibly touched by Cooper was processed for prints. The seats he was sitting in were actually removed and sent to DC.”

5. I have an email out to Bounds to ask his assistance in this matter.

6. I have emailed Chris Ingalls, a KING 5 TV journalist, who has expressed interest in the DB Cooper story.

7. KING 5 TV archives are currently inaccessible, at least to mere mortals. I have asked for Divine Intervention in his matter. (C'mon God/Ramtha, can I catch a break here!!!)

8. The FBI "Index" makes no mention of DNA in its "DB Cooper" section. Alas.

Smith writes:

4. We also have a post by Ckret, as presented by Georger and emailed to me in 2013, where Carr says that the cigarettes had been tested in DC and were headed back to Seattle:

From Georger in 2013:
DNA, cigarette butts, evidence missing, 2.4.13

"...don't know that he said DNA -- just that they were "processed" in the lab.
From ckret post (in DZ):"

“Still looking for the cigarettes, after they were processed in the lab they were sent back to the field. So they are somewhere between Washington DC and Seattle or disposed of. Every spot on the plane possibly touched by Cooper was processed for prints. The seats he was sitting in were actually removed and sent to DC.”


1. If this involves a post by Ckret why dont you give us a link to the post ? At Dropzone?

2. Why would I be sending you an "email" referencing a post by Ckret? In what context did this all supposedly happen?  Why would I be saying "...don't know that he said DNA " if I am referencing a post by Ckret? Again, what was the context all of this happened in ... why am I emailing you about this? I am totally in the dark.

3. Whose statement is this, mine or Ckret's? "“Still looking for the cigarettes, after they were processed in the lab they were sent back to the field. So they are somewhere between Washington DC and Seattle or disposed of. Every spot on the plane possibly touched by Cooper was processed for prints. The seats he was sitting in were actually removed and sent to DC.” This sounds like something Ckret is saying ? Was this a post by Ckret or something you are saying I said?

4. Frankly, what you have posted above sounds like Ckret trying to state the options for what may have happened to the butts, ie speculation on his part vs. stating actual fact.

5. Are you trying to take a speculation Ckret made (that I passed along to you) and now stating Ckret's speculation as fact? ... because of some KING-5 newscast the Forman's supposedly heard?

If you recall, Ckret was trying to find the butts. He didn't know where they were. But he speculated they might still be in Reno, or were sent to DC or Quantico for testing, and if testing occurred they might have been sent back to the field office that sent them in for testing. If Reno sent them in for testing they might have been tested and returned to Reno. Ckret was looking for paper work to trace the chain of custody and disposition. And so far as I know that is as far as he ever got. He couldn't find the butts and he couldn't find any paperwork stating what had happened to the butts or where they were. But at one point he wondered if Reno had sent the butts in for testing, for prints. In 1971 I dont know that the FBI was doing dna testing? So it is unlikely the butts would have been dna tested in the 1970s, in any event. That would have happened later and there would be paperwork documenting it.

But, it sounds to me like what I emailed you was Ckret's speculations on what might have happened to the butts. I seriously doubt what you have posted is a statement of fact about what actually happened to the butts, because neither I nor Ckret nor anyone else I know would be in any position to have that information even if it existed somewhere.

So do not quote me as saying "x,y,, and z happened to the butts"!

The Forman claim to have heard a KING-5 program stating the butts had been tested is a separate matter. I assume that in due course we will all get something back from KING-5 about whether that program content ever happened .. and then we can all go back to you and Blevins presenting yourselves as experts in genetic testing and some of us can just sit back laughing ....

Thanks Dr. Smith!  ::)


   
« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 02:55:32 AM by georger »
 

Offline sailshaw

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #128 on: December 06, 2015, 09:37:39 AM »
Bruce:    You say: "Larry told me epithelial cells from the fingers on the clasp"

I say:   "Any girl friend helping DB get dressed could have placed the tie clasp in her mouth and would have handled it too. The chances are great that the DNA from the tie clasp are not from DB. The envelope stamps/flaps (on the other hand) of the four letters are still the best evidence that the FBI has that they have yet to look at and when compared with what they have of Sheridan Peterson will catch him in a lie to the Feds (could serve jail time on that) and could be used to trade for the real complete story from Sheridan. " I think the FBI have been told to stop working on the case!

Bob Sailshaw
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Offline Shutter

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #129 on: December 06, 2015, 09:57:35 AM »
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Bruce:    You say: "Larry told me epithelial cells from the fingers on the clasp"

I say:   "Any girl friend helping DB get dressed could have placed the tie clasp in her mouth and would have handled it too. The chances are great that the DNA from the tie clasp are not from DB. The envelope stamps/flaps (on the other hand) of the four letters are still the best evidence that the FBI has that they have yet to look at and when compared with what they have of Sheridan Peterson will catch him in a lie to the Feds (could serve jail time on that) and could be used to trade for the real complete story from Sheridan. " I think the FBI have been told to stop working on the case!

Bob Sailshaw
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I believe the DNA sample has ruled out women as a contributor...it could easily be seen in the sample.
 

georger

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #130 on: December 06, 2015, 02:18:54 PM »
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DNA Update

The discussion on DNA seems to be bouncing around, so I thought I'd redirect it, here. This is where the cigarette issue stands at this moment in time:

1. The DNA from the saliva is critical: first, it is the best source of DNA. Secondly, it avoids the chain of custody issues surrounding the tie and clasp.

2. We only have a thin line of evidence that the cigarette butts were tested for DNA. First, we have the report that Dennis Bounds at KING 5 TV in Seattle gave a report on the topic back in 2002 or so, via the statements of Ron and Pat Forman who saw Bounds on TV.

3. This suggest that Bounds was working off an FBI press release on the subject. I have an email into Ayn Dietrich-Williams to see if there are any media announcements in an archive that might help.

4. We also have a post by Ckret, as presented by Georger and emailed to me in 2013, where Carr says that the cigarettes had been tested in DC and were headed back to Seattle:

From Georger in 2013:
DNA, cigarette butts, evidence missing, 2.4.13

"...don't know that he said DNA -- just that they were "processed" in the lab.
From ckret post (in DZ):"

“Still looking for the cigarettes, after they were processed in the lab they were sent back to the field. So they are somewhere between Washington DC and Seattle or disposed of. Every spot on the plane possibly touched by Cooper was processed for prints. The seats he was sitting in were actually removed and sent to DC.”

5. I have an email out to Bounds to ask his assistance in this matter.

6. I have emailed Chris Ingalls, a KING 5 TV journalist, who has expressed interest in the DB Cooper story.

7. KING 5 TV archives are currently inaccessible, at least to mere mortals. I have asked for Divine Intervention in his matter. (C'mon God/Ramtha, can I catch a break here!!!)

8. The FBI "Index" makes no mention of DNA in its "DB Cooper" section. Alas.

Not so fast Brucy! Now that I have time a quick check of DZ showed you were engaged in this caliphony clear back in 2014 and earlier, trying to do a "Blevins" on Ckret's words ... until Smokin99 politely stopped you. Smokin has always been kind to orphans and small animals. The issue was and still is, Ckret's word "processed" which you then sped off the planet with insisting this meant "dna", and you said back in 2014 that you/the Formans had seen some creature-feature on KIRO which talked about the butts and "dna" ?

Let's be clear here - Brucy Baby! I did not say "dna". You said "dna". Ckret did not say "dna". It was you whoo said "dna", from whometh be the Formans forthwith eternally finding goblins and unworldly things in the Cooper Maldum Fornax which they pass on to you and you dutifully report for the caliphate whose tit you sucketh?

So it was not me who ever said "dna" in the context you are trying to attribute to me, in your Blevination.

Smokin99 simply said in response to your anti-FBI (anti-authority) assertions:

smokin99

Feb 4, 2013, 5:31 PM
Post #40581 of 58140 (50723 views)
Shortcut
          Re: [377] The Hunt for DB Cooper - an overview of the citizen sleuth team [In reply to]
 
________________________________________
In reply to:
Bruce wrote:
Quote:
My current understanding - from piecing together bits here and there - is that the cigarette butts were lost shortly after they were analyzed for DNA, somewhere in the 2002-2003 time period.

If true then is it cigarette DNA that they use to rule out suspects? I was not aware that they analysed the cigarette butts for DNA. If they did, I assume they would have compared it to the tie DNA to shore up their conclusion that the tie was Cooper's.

377

Smokin99 reply>

I don't know that he said DNA -- just that they were "processed" in the lab.
From ckret post:

Still looking for the cigarettes, after they were processed in the lab they were sent back to the field. So they are somewhere between Washington DC and Seattle or disposed of. Every spot on the plane possibly touched by Cooper was processed for prints. The seats he was sitting in were actually removed and sent to DC.


and you replied saying more claptrap:

Since the FBI had the cigarette butts and analyzed the DNA from them around 2002, it must be presumed that they have DB Cooper actual DNA and a complete profile.

We know this because Seattle KIRO-TV announced it as such in 2002.

The bigger question then is, what happened next to the butts and the documentation, both of which now seem to be "lost."

It also begs the question of why the butts were stored in Les Vegas and not in Seattle, as has been reported here. (Nov 24, 2013)


Was there a program on KIRO, KING-5, WHOTV, or someplace else like you and the Forman's are claiming?

Well I don't know! But I guess we will find out, when the graveyard opens back up tomorrow and cannibalizing the Cooper has started again ...

 :-*

 


 

   
« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 02:25:51 PM by georger »
 

georger

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #131 on: December 06, 2015, 02:20:17 PM »
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Bruce:    You say: "Larry told me epithelial cells from the fingers on the clasp"

I say:   "Any girl friend helping DB get dressed could have placed the tie clasp in her mouth and would have handled it too. The chances are great that the DNA from the tie clasp are not from DB. The envelope stamps/flaps (on the other hand) of the four letters are still the best evidence that the FBI has that they have yet to look at and when compared with what they have of Sheridan Peterson will catch him in a lie to the Feds (could serve jail time on that) and could be used to trade for the real complete story from Sheridan. " I think the FBI have been told to stop working on the case!

Bob Sailshaw
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I believe the DNA sample has ruled out women as a contributor...it could easily be seen in the sample.

How do you know? So you are saying CODIS-13 is sex sensitive? At which loci?
 8)

Here, let me help you with some reading material:
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or this:
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I am sure Bruce Smith & RobertMBlevins or 377 will answer any questions you have .. that the Formans haven't already answered.  :)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 02:32:59 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #132 on: December 06, 2015, 02:40:54 PM »
If you noticed I used the words "I believe"

Now, I've read many times that the tie has "multiple male donors" this should dismiss any female from any point forward.

It's always been my understanding that DNA can determine male vs female?

I also found this link...

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« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 02:48:25 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #133 on: December 06, 2015, 03:39:01 PM »
As always, Georger, thanks for all your corrective assistance. As for all your snarky stuff, again as always, GFY.

In the meantime, I will seek the original DZ post by Ckret, continue to clarify the confusion between KING 5 and KIRO 7 TV, and search for other tidbits that might reveal DB Cooper's actual identity. :-*
« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 03:41:01 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #134 on: December 06, 2015, 03:49:50 PM »
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Bruce:    You say: "Larry told me epithelial cells from the fingers on the clasp"

I say:   "Any girl friend helping DB get dressed could have placed the tie clasp in her mouth and would have handled it too. The chances are great that the DNA from the tie clasp are not from DB. The envelope stamps/flaps (on the other hand) of the four letters are still the best evidence that the FBI has that they have yet to look at and when compared with what they have of Sheridan Peterson will catch him in a lie to the Feds (could serve jail time on that) and could be used to trade for the real complete story from Sheridan. " I think the FBI have been told to stop working on the case!

Bob Sailshaw
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Helpful girlfriends are only one element of concern with the tie and clasp. It could also be contaminated by curious FBI agents who tried on the tie to get the Cooper vibe. Or, it could have been anybody at Red Campbell's house over the T-Day weekend since the tie didn't get to Seattle until Monday.

More problematic, none of the five principals who saw or presumably handled the tie remember seeing or touching it. Surprisingly, even Tina Mucklow said she didn't remember the tie, according to Russ Calame when he spoke to her in the late 1980s when she was at the convent. However, she did describe it accurately at her debriefing.

In addition, Bernie Rhodes says that the four FBI agents responsible for the evidence retrieval - Campbell, Ricks, Stousland, or Norris - all of them told Bernie that they had no memory of ever seeing the tie, hearing about the tie, or recovering the tie.