Author Topic: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?  (Read 36885 times)

Offline Shutter

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The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« on: March 21, 2014, 10:32:00 PM »
This will be a place to discuss the DNA captured by the FBI that is, or thought to be DB Cooper's.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 06:22:01 PM by shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2014, 06:27:55 PM »
Hopefully Georger can better explain the whole DNA thingy with Cooper, and give us all better knowledge in understanding how it works, and what it can do for the case.

Georger, you have the floor.... 8)
 

georger

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2014, 11:29:15 PM »
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Hopefully Georger can better explain the whole DNA thingy with Cooper, and give us all better knowledge in understanding how it works, and what it can do for the case.

Georger, you have the floor.... 8)

I feel I have already written so much about this, and I wonder if people really are interested/concerned. Let's simply say Arc Point of Seattle is a franchised testing service. There are several around the US. Their page explains what they do and who their customer base is.  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

And again here are links that will explain the CODIS (Combined dna index) system and how it works and why:
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« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 11:32:17 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2014, 11:42:27 PM »
Yes, people are interested. I would like to have information about the DNA, and it's link to Cooper found here for quick reference, or education. I will then lock the thread to viewing only. lots of people don't totally understand what the FBI has, or what it can, or can not do in identifying who Cooper is, or was. I want to punch through all of the myths surrounding this case, and make them easy to access here on this site.
 

georger

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2014, 12:06:58 AM »
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Yes, people are interested. I would like to have information about the DNA, and it's link to Cooper found here for quick reference, or education. I will then lock the thread to viewing only. lots of people don't totally understand what the FBI has, or what it can, or can not do in identifying who Cooper is, or was. I want to punch through all of the myths surrounding this case, and make them easy to access here on this site.

I frankly don't want to give too much away here. I want to give Mr. Blevins room to make his posts, make his claims, and then we can address specific points as those emerge.

I do not know for certain what the FBI has, or doesn't have, in terms of dna evidence in the Cooper case. I have what Larry Carr said: that the FBI has a partial profile in the DB Cooper case. Since the FBI uses the CODIS-13 system I have to assume their "partial" refers to a partial within the CODIS-13 system. This might mean that the FBI tests identified some 7 out of the 13 genetic markers used in the Codis13 system, which the FBI feels were identified to some acceptable level of reliability. As FBI spokespeople have said, that would not be sufficient to guarantee a codis match on all 13 loci, but it is enough rule people out if people's codis markers do not match the markers the FBI has supposedly identified.

Again, here is a list of the markers used in the codis-13 system. The urls I listed give meaning to this.
 

 
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2014, 12:31:30 AM »
Understood, none of this has to happen now anyway. I'm just slowly working everything together.
 

georger

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2014, 02:36:25 AM »
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Understood, none of this has to happen now anyway. I'm just slowly working everything together.

Blevins says: "Actually...I am only trying to find out if Kenny Christiansen was Cooper. That's it. I can't alter any DNA test, and if the Seattle FBI ever decides to check out the witnesses named in the updated report, I have no control over that either. "

Blevins already has the answer to this.

The FBI has stated they only have a partial for Cooper. That is insufficient to match anyone, Lyle or Kenny himself even if Kenny was Cooper! Lyle can come out at best as a 'partial of a partial, of a partial'! It's going to take somebody like the FBI or Arc Point to pound that into Blevins' head and very likely they won't even accomplish that.

The issue is not Lyle or Kenny but Blevins himself.

 
« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 02:38:01 AM by georger »
 

Offline sailshaw

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2014, 10:54:13 AM »
Georger:   I don't think the FBI has yet found DB Cooper's DNA. I believe they actually have it under the stamps and envelope flaps of the four letters sent to the news papers following the Norjak hijack.  The FBI seems reluctant to discover that DNA as they don;t seem to think the letters are from DB. I have another thought on the letters (especially letter #3) that has a salutation of "The system that beat the system, DB Cooper". That was the mantra of Sheridan Peterson the whole month he stayed at my house in Seattle. That made me a believer in the four letters actually being from DB/Sheridan. It also ment that he survived the jump and was alive which the FBI did not want to believe. The FBI has Sheridan Peterson's DNA that was collected by the two Female Agents, However, they bought the phoney story of Cossey who may have actually been a partner in the caper and wanted to through the FBI off by saying it was too difficult a jump and DB was an beginner jumper and did not know what he was doing. The opposite is true of Sheridan (Smoke Jumper, Instructor in the Boeing Skydiving Club, skydiving experimenter with wings etc...). Cossey could have served as the ground/getaway guy and launder of the money in the Casino's he visited. The FBI needs to Solve The Crime by looking at the DNA on the four envelopes they have.
Bob Sailshaw
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Offline Shutter

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2014, 11:40:25 AM »
What will happen if the letters have four different DNA samples, and don't match the samples on the tie? I still wonder if they already checked the letters and haven't told anyone?
 

Offline sailshaw

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2014, 11:54:06 AM »
Georger (continued):  To solve the case all the FBI needs to do is compare the DNA from the four letters with what they already have from Sheridan Peterson and a match (and I truly believe they would get a match) would prove that Sheridan was in the Portland area at the scene of the crime for Norjak and not in Nepal as his phoney alibi says. So easy to solve and yet the FBI is stuck on stop probably on the order from the US Attorney Generals Office (and we know how he works). The FBI needs to solve the crime and get it off their books as a success and not as their only unsolved crime. . Another aspect of DB is the disguise he use was so simple. He wore sunglasses to cover his eye color (what the FBI looks at to identify the suspect). The only time he took off the sunglasses was to show the Flight Attendants his eye color. They said he had "piercing brown eyes" which covered up hi actual blue eyes. No other disguise was necessary and it did the trick with the investigators.

Bob Sailshaw
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Offline Shutter

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2014, 12:10:03 PM »
Ok, who reported my post to the moderators here  :D ;D ;) I just got an email about it lol. sailshaw did you hit the report button by mistake. I have to put myself on vaction now  :D ;) :)

just kidding
 

georger

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2014, 01:11:43 AM »
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Georger (continued):  To solve the case all the FBI needs to do is compare the DNA from the four letters with what they already have from Sheridan Peterson and a match (and I truly believe they would get a match) would prove that Sheridan was in the Portland area at the scene of the crime for Norjak and not in Nepal as his phoney alibi says. So easy to solve and yet the FBI is stuck on stop probably on the order from the US Attorney Generals Office (and we know how he works). The FBI needs to solve the crime and get it off their books as a success and not as their only unsolved crime. . Another aspect of DB is the disguise he use was so simple. He wore sunglasses to cover his eye color (what the FBI looks at to identify the suspect). The only time he took off the sunglasses was to show the Flight Attendants his eye color. They said he had "piercing brown eyes" which covered up hi actual blue eyes. No other disguise was necessary and it did the trick with the investigators.

Bob Sailshaw
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I think we are entitled to some good news from time to time _ not infected by personal polemics.

The good news is, the FBI sample from the tie turned out to be Human, and not from a dog!   :) :) :)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 01:12:20 AM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2014, 05:18:53 PM »
Here's what I know about the DNA.  As Georger said above, he has posted his info many times in many places, and I will do the same, because this seems like an ideal repository for this information.

1. The current DNA sample that the FBI has comes from epithelial cells found on the clasp. Larry Carr readily acknowledged to me that they could be DB Cooper's or anyone else who handled the tie. Larry confirmed it is a "partial" sample.

However, Larry did not comment on the statements made by Calame and Rhodes in their book that the tie entered the evidentiary collection in Seattle four days after the skyjacking and no one knows where it was during that time.

Further, Calame and Rhodes write that they interviewed the four FBI agents tasked with evidence retrieval in Reno, and none remember seeing, taking, or talking about the tie.

Compounding the confusion during the retrieval, Reno PD apparently was dusting for fingerprints, according to Rhodes, and a K-9 bomb sniffing team came aboard and ate the crew's dinner sitting on the seats in First Class, according to Rataczak.

2. The best source of DNA comes from human fluids, such as blood, semen, and saliva. As a result, the eight cigarette butts left by Cooper are ideal for DNA testing, even forty years later. These butts were tested circa 2002 because Pat and Ron Forman claim they heard a KIRO-TV news report stating that the FBI had Cooper's DNA from the cigarettes.

However, Larry reported on the DZ in 2008 that he went looking for the butts to test them for DNA, and they were missing. Also lost, apparently, was the paper work from 2002 detailing Cooper's profile.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 05:19:33 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

georger

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2014, 12:22:01 AM »
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Here's what I know about the DNA.  As Georger said above, he has posted his info many times in many places, and I will do the same, because this seems like an ideal repository for this information.

1. The current DNA sample that the FBI has comes from epithelial cells found on the clasp. Larry Carr readily acknowledged to me that they could be DB Cooper's or anyone else who handled the tie. Larry confirmed it is a "partial" sample.

However, Larry did not comment on the statements made by Calame and Rhodes in their book that the tie entered the evidentiary collection in Seattle four days after the skyjacking and no one knows where it was during that time.

Further, Calame and Rhodes write that they interviewed the four FBI agents tasked with evidence retrieval in Reno, and none remember seeing, taking, or talking about the tie.

Compounding the confusion during the retrieval, Reno PD apparently was dusting for fingerprints, according to Rhodes, and a K-9 bomb sniffing team came aboard and ate the crew's dinner sitting on the seats in First Class, according to Rataczak.

2. The best source of DNA comes from human fluids, such as blood, semen, and saliva. As a result, the eight cigarette butts left by Cooper are ideal for DNA testing, even forty years later. These butts were tested circa 2002 because Pat and Ron Forman claim they heard a KIRO-TV news report stating that the FBI had Cooper's DNA from the cigarettes.

However, Larry reported on the DZ in 2008 that he went looking for the butts to test them for DNA, and they were missing. Also lost, apparently, was the paper work from 2002 detailing Cooper's profile.

Actually Bruce, yours is a pretty good synopsis from my perspective.

Im actually foggy on where on the tie the epithelial cells (skin cells) were collected from, whether from clasp, tie proper, area near the neck ??? The assumption is the epithelial cells were neck skin cells dropped due to friction with cloth involving Cooper's neck. When they are identified as epithelial cells that probably indicates some effort to identify the cell type prior to testing.

The loss of the butts, if they are in fact lost, would be a blow. Those would be the best source to take samples from ...

Im still hopeful something will come in the dna area..

 
 
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: The DNA/The FBI/DB Cooper...Whats The deal?
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2014, 01:55:57 AM »
Larry told me epithelial cells from the fingers on the clasp