Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tina Bar Money Find  (Read 436364 times)

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4605 on: Today at 12:55:07 AM »
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This is all meaningless unless we have a control sample we can compare it to...

How would a control sample fit into this?  It is an absolutely safe assumption that nothing from the Columbia River was on those bills when they were given to Cooper.  And everything that has been identified so far is, according to Georger, consistent with the money find location.

Lets see your id's ?  What's your complaint?

How about you showing some id's for once?  Do you know how control samples are used?  You can answer with a simple "yes" or "no", but will probably just ignore the question.  If you think a control sample could be used here, then how about enlightening those who do actually know how control samples are used? 
 

Online andrade1812

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4606 on: Today at 10:38:03 AM »
I would want bills that had been exposed upstream, somewhere near where Tosaw believes Cooper splashed. I would want bills that had been in the Washougal. And I would want to test whether being in the bag or out of the bag made a difference.

My belief is the money was tightly packed in the bag at the bottom of the river until it hit the dredge. If the diatoms don't penetrate deep into the bag, then we would only expect to find diatoms once everything was ripped open.

Without some experiments to make comparisons, this whole discussion is futile.
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4607 on: Today at 11:25:00 AM »
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I would want bills that had been exposed upstream, somewhere near where Tosaw believes Cooper splashed. I would want bills that had been in the Washougal. And I would want to test whether being in the bag or out of the bag made a difference.

My belief is the money was tightly packed in the bag at the bottom of the river until it hit the dredge. If the diatoms don't penetrate deep into the bag, then we would only expect to find diatoms once everything was ripped open.

Without some experiments to make comparisons, this whole discussion is futile.

The evidence you seek may already be available.  If Georger knows the diatom situation at the money find location then perhaps he knows it at other points in the Columbia watershed including the Washougal.

If my memory is correct, Tom Kaye has some river water from Tina Bar.  Also, I believe he has been conducting some experiments using actual money bills in soil samples from Tina Bar.  Further, I believe that he did some experiments using actual bills in which he placed them in the water somewhere (Washougal area?) with his contact information if anyone found them.  He may have received something back from those experiments that he could check for diatoms.

I doubt if the money could have been packed tight enough to prevent a representative sample of river water from saturating all the bills.  If the diatoms can only be seen with electron microscopes, then I suggest that they could probably pass through the bag materials.

Your stated belief is that the money arrived at Tina Bar by dredging.  The actual money find location appears to have been several hundred feet downstream from the location where the dredged materials were placed at Tina Bar.  Since three bundles were found within a handful of inches of each other and without any further restraints, I think a case can be made that they arrived at the same time and this strongly suggests that they didn't go through a dredge.   
 
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Online georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4608 on: Today at 03:29:55 PM »
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I would want bills that had been exposed upstream, somewhere near where Tosaw believes Cooper splashed. I would want bills that had been in the Washougal. And I would want to test whether being in the bag or out of the bag made a difference.

My belief is the money was tightly packed in the bag at the bottom of the river until it hit the dredge. If the diatoms don't penetrate deep into the bag, then we would only expect to find diatoms once everything was ripped open.

Without some experiments to make comparisons, this whole discussion is futile.

The diatoms only arrived several days ago and already you want more samples from 500 different other places and directions - we dont even have the diatoms just found classified! What's the emergency? Likewise, this is 2020. The bills date back to 1971 and before! Why not require bills from the Seafirst bank dating back to 1950 be examined, to see what diatoms are on them - as a control !?

How about taking one thing at a time first and foremost? I see no value in a diatom stampede that splinters off in 500 new directions before the basic facts of the evidence just found is even known.  >:D 

Q: would diatoms found in different locations today, be the same diatoms found in those locations say 1950-1980?

Fact:   The Ingram money was NOT found in a canvas bag!

Suggestion: why dont you people learn something about diatoms first before blowing off about Cooper diatom theories !? The Ingram bill examined by Tom shows only 'pieces/broken stems' of A. Formosa, not whole or even parts of fully assembled Formosa? Why is that?  ;) 

Without some order, this whole discussion is futile and pointless.
« Last Edit: Today at 03:47:48 PM by georger »
 

Online georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4609 on: Today at 03:59:58 PM »
Very likely, diatom experts are going to have to be consulted, in order to evaluate the diatoms Tom found a few days ago. There is nobody in this forum who is a diatom expert! Only experts can clarify some of the issues that are going to develop in this matter.

Why dont we allow Tom time and space to work this problem?  :chr2:

I see somewhere between 5-7 separate diatom species in Tom's photos. Correct identification is important. Tom may need to do more sem work to better clarify what exists on this bill.
« Last Edit: Today at 04:06:26 PM by georger »
 

Online georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4610 on: Today at 04:21:27 PM »
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I would want bills that had been exposed upstream, somewhere near where Tosaw believes Cooper splashed. I would want bills that had been in the Washougal. And I would want to test whether being in the bag or out of the bag made a difference.

My belief is the money was tightly packed in the bag at the bottom of the river until it hit the dredge. If the diatoms don't penetrate deep into the bag, then we would only expect to find diatoms once everything was ripped open.

Without some experiments to make comparisons, this whole discussion is futile.

Well, hmmm,    there is no guarantee this forum will even exist after this week, according to Shutter's last post! That alone could make this whole discussion futile. That is the UNCERTAINTY WE ARE LIVING UNDER HERE! Or, that I  will be kicked off at the request of Eric Ulis and R99 ... at the end of this week?

Without some simple security to live and work, this whole discussion could be futile. It's one helluva way to have to live and work for some of us! Cooper forums are very political and sometimes there is no way around it!   

 :chr2: :conspiracy:
« Last Edit: Today at 04:26:10 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4611 on: Today at 04:26:32 PM »
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I would want bills that had been exposed upstream, somewhere near where Tosaw believes Cooper splashed. I would want bills that had been in the Washougal. And I would want to test whether being in the bag or out of the bag made a difference.

My belief is the money was tightly packed in the bag at the bottom of the river until it hit the dredge. If the diatoms don't penetrate deep into the bag, then we would only expect to find diatoms once everything was ripped open.

Without some experiments to make comparisons, this whole discussion is futile.

The diatoms only arrived several days ago and already you want more samples from 500 different other places and directions - we dont even have the diatoms just found classified! What's the emergency? Likewise, this is 2020. The bills date back to 1971 and before! Why not require bills from the Seafirst bank dating back to 1950 be examined, to see what diatoms are on them - as a control !?

How about taking one thing at a time first and foremost? I see no value in a diatom stampede that splinters off in 500 new directions before the basic facts of the evidence just found is even known.  >:D 

Q: would diatoms found in different locations today, be the same diatoms found in those locations say 1950-1980?

Fact:   The Ingram money was NOT found in a canvas bag!

Suggestion: why dont you people learn something about diatoms first before blowing off about Cooper diatom theories !? The Ingram bill examined by Tom shows only 'pieces/broken stems' of A. Formosa, not whole or even parts of fully assembled Formosa? Why is that?  ;) 

Without some order, this whole discussion is futile and pointless.

Georger, how dare you speak to Andrade like this!  And you haven't even said a cross word to me so far today!  I'm feeling neglected!
 

Online andrade1812

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4612 on: Today at 05:28:40 PM »
This was actually more fun than I've had in a long time on this forum.

Bro hugs all around...

If anyone has a number for a diatom expert, I'd be happy to give them a call.
« Last Edit: Today at 05:51:25 PM by andrade1812 »
 

Online georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4613 on: Today at 05:53:44 PM »
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This was actually more fun than I've had in a long time on this forum.

Bro hugs all around...

where do diatoms go? Diatom graveyard? What are diatoms? How do they work in the food chain? Are there diatoms in bottom sediments? If bottom sediments are dredged up and put on beaches, do those sediments contain old pieces of diatoms? Broken pieces of old silica skeletons? Why so many broken pieces of A formosa on 77's bill?

What is the difference between a dead and a living diatom? Were the diatoms found on 77's bill living or dead when they were deposited on the bill?