Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 358581 times)

Offline Darren

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4125 on: July 12, 2019, 06:40:02 PM »
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Who is that guy Dovid? I've never heard that name before.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4126 on: July 12, 2019, 07:04:44 PM »
If Cooper was wearing a watch I'm sure someone would of noticed him looking at the time. not one person seems to have noticed that...Tina spent a lot of time with him and it appears he never looked or cared about the time.
 

Offline Lynn

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4127 on: July 13, 2019, 03:20:58 AM »
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If Cooper was wearing a watch I'm sure someone would of noticed him looking at the time. not one person seems to have noticed that...Tina spent a lot of time with him and it appears he never looked or cared about the time.
Yet he did initially set a specific deadline for his demands to be met and found the refueling to be taking too long. The latter could have just been his feeling, but to insist on the former would demand some way of verifying the time. He may have asked the flight attendants, of course; it's not something they would necessarily mention in an interview beyond that he was becoming impatient.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4128 on: July 13, 2019, 04:04:32 AM »
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In reply to lynn
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Who is that guy Dovid? I've never heard that name before.

Dovid comes and goes. Young guy. He's from Jersey, I think, and is notable for getting a staff directory from 1971 of Tektronix, if I have my facts straight.
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4129 on: July 13, 2019, 08:11:16 AM »
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If Cooper was wearing a watch I'm sure someone would of noticed him looking at the time. not one person seems to have noticed that...Tina spent a lot of time with him and it appears he never looked or cared about the time.
Yet he did initially set a specific deadline for his demands to be met and found the refueling to be taking too long. The latter could have just been his feeling, but to insist on the former would demand some way of verifying the time. He may have asked the flight attendants, of course; it's not something they would necessarily mention in an interview beyond that he was becoming impatient.

I'm sure one of the 3 main witnesses would of noticed or said something. if he was that concerned he would of been looking a lot similar to someone today checking there phone. he had to of known somehow but I don't believe it was from a wristwatch. his hands were in and out of the briefcase, perhaps a watch was in there.
 
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Offline haggarknew

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4130 on: July 13, 2019, 10:16:33 AM »
Didn't he also demand the money, parachutes, and such be delivered by 5:00 ? How would he have known when 5:00 occurred?
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4131 on: July 13, 2019, 01:46:26 PM »
You must look at the totality. three stews were around him for a long period. not one of them mentioned looking at a watch. now, when they were asked if Cooper had any jewelry I'm sure the FBI would ask if any rings, bracelets, or watch was noted. the tie clip was small and could of been covered by the jacket.

we don't know if they were telling him time frames either. "it's almost 5:00 and we are getting the chutes to the airport now" If time was a major factor he would of been noticed multiple times checking the time. he has to give a deadline. doesn't mean he has a watch? he had a pocket knife, so he must have a gun?

Tina sat right next to him for hours and you would think she would have mentioned him looking at his watch. she describe his shoes in detail. she knew what was on the matchbook covers. he wasn't noted going through his pockets, so a pocket watch is out. the only other place is the briefcase. he was in and out of it often.
 
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Offline Lynn

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4132 on: July 13, 2019, 09:13:45 PM »
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You must look at the totality. three stews were around him for a long period. not one of them mentioned looking at a watch. now, when they were asked if Cooper had any jewelry I'm sure the FBI would ask if any rings, bracelets, or watch was noted. the tie clip was small and could of been covered by the jacket.

we don't know if they were telling him time frames either. "it's almost 5:00 and we are getting the chutes to the airport now" If time was a major factor he would of been noticed multiple times checking the time. he has to give a deadline. doesn't mean he has a watch? he had a pocket knife, so he must have a gun?

Tina sat right next to him for hours and you would think she would have mentioned him looking at his watch. she describe his shoes in detail. she knew what was on the matchbook covers. he wasn't noted going through his pockets, so a pocket watch is out. the only other place is the briefcase. he was in and out of it often.
Re: the matchbook, someone on another forum was saying there were two of them, Cooper's and Tina's. Do we have any reason to believe this was so? Why would Tina mention Sky Chef at all if she was the one who grabbed those matches from the galley in the first place? Is there something I'm missing in the transcript?
 

Offline Lynn

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4133 on: July 13, 2019, 09:19:20 PM »
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You must look at the totality. three stews were around him for a long period. not one of them mentioned looking at a watch. now, when they were asked if Cooper had any jewelry I'm sure the FBI would ask if any rings, bracelets, or watch was noted. the tie clip was small and could of been covered by the jacket.

we don't know if they were telling him time frames either. "it's almost 5:00 and we are getting the chutes to the airport now" If time was a major factor he would of been noticed multiple times checking the time. he has to give a deadline. doesn't mean he has a watch? he had a pocket knife, so he must have a gun?

Tina sat right next to him for hours and you would think she would have mentioned him looking at his watch. she describe his shoes in detail. she knew what was on the matchbook covers. he wasn't noted going through his pockets, so a pocket watch is out. the only other place is the briefcase. he was in and out of it often.
Re: the matchbook, someone on another forum was saying there were two of them, Cooper's and Tina's. Do we have any reason to believe this was so? Why would Tina mention Sky Chef at all if she was the one who grabbed those matches from the galley in the first place? Is there something I'm missing in the transcript?
Oh, sorry, shutter, I just realized we've ventured into Evidence territory rather than "Suspects and Confessions."
 
 

Offline haggarknew

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4134 on: July 14, 2019, 01:29:59 AM »
as per last few posts... I think you are probably correct Shutter. Surely there would have some mention of a wrist watch or pocket watch by one of the 3 stews. As far as the 5:00 demand, he could have possibly figured that out by the sun setting. As far as the refueling maybe he knew from experience that it was taking too long. He could see the trucks refueling the aircraft couldn't he? If he could see them he might have known that it (normally)  didn't take 3 fuel trucks to refuel the aircraft. One other thought, maybe he could have checked the time while he was in the bathroom if he did have a pocket watch.  Purely speculation.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4135 on: July 14, 2019, 11:01:46 AM »
A lot of people don't wear watches and know the time to some extent. I'm one of those. if he did have access to time he didn't make it apparent. I don't think having a watch would do much in his defense unless he knew the flight path taken.

 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4136 on: July 14, 2019, 01:05:49 PM »
This entire case was just one big bluff, Cooper didn't need a watch since there was nothing he could do if they didn't keep his schedule...
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4137 on: July 14, 2019, 01:43:02 PM »
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A lot of people don't wear watches and know the time to some extent. I'm one of those. if he did have access to time he didn't make it apparent. I don't think having a watch would do much in his defense unless he knew the flight path taken.

It is highly unlikely that Cooper would have known which of the two possible flight paths between Portland and Seattle that the airliner would take.  At the same time, the flight path taken (V-23) was only two or three nautical miles longer than the shorter one (V-23E).  So that would only involve less than a minutes flying time.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4138 on: July 14, 2019, 02:31:54 PM »
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This entire case was just one big bluff, Cooper didn't need a watch since there was nothing he could do if they didn't keep his schedule...

Remember: "Miss, all I have to do is touch these two wires ..." ..."no funny stuff or I'll do the job". He presented a contraption that looked like a bomb.

Cooper could have said, 'ok I give up. Land this plane and I'll cooperate'. It's over.'  But he didn't.

He relied on psychology, a parachute, whatever skills he had with a parachute, the darkness and weather, enough time in the air to confuse everyone, and it appears he may have ejected close to where it all began at Portland. He was so far ahead with so many unknowns operating, over a large enough geographical area, a hand full of law enforcement couldn't catch up to him easily. Then money turns up on a sand bar of all places, ten years later, and the only thing to connect these events is the flow of water. And whatever evidence they had also conveniently disappears or is so conflicted it is almost meaningless!

Who is bluffing whom?     
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 02:44:54 PM by georger »
 
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Offline Lynn

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4139 on: July 14, 2019, 03:04:31 PM »
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This entire case was just one big bluff, Cooper didn't need a watch since there was nothing he could do if they didn't keep his schedule...

Remember: "Miss, all I have to do is touch these two wires ..." ..."no funny stuff or I'll do the job". He presented a contraption that looked like a bomb.

Cooper could have said, 'ok I give up. Land this plane and I'll cooperate'. It's over.'  But he didn't.

He relied on psychology, a parachute, whatever skills he had with a parachute, the darkness and weather, enough time in the air to confuse everyone, and it appears he may have ejected close to where it all began at Portland. He was so far ahead with so many unknowns operating, over a large enough geographical area, a hand full of law enforcement couldn't catch up to him easily. Then money turns up on a sand bar of all places, ten years later, and the only thing to connect these events is the flow of water. And whatever evidence they had also conveniently disappears or is so conflicted it is almost meaningless!

Who is bluffing whom?   
This may be fanciful, but it was like fate conspired to let him remain a metaphor. A desperate, faithless, resentful Everyman - a middle-aged loner, not a young hothead - who devised the perfect plan designed to get him what he wanted with the least amount of collateral damage. Tosses his necktie on the way out the door - it was only ever a clip-on, anyway; he was never going to let it choke him; his persona was only ever for show. Vanishes, with every evidentiary detail thereafter, including the find at Tina Bar, producing more questions than answers. The most key pieces of evidence going missing some time before the technology that could have nailed him. *poof!* The magic trick is complete.  8) Been watching Better Call Saul and Barry, both shows about anti-heroes, how they got there, and how life is lived beyond the time of possible redemption. Shows that make the audience question itself in its ability to empathize with questionable people. We all know the long-term psychological effects Cooper's crime had on some, yet no matter what background we imagine for him, we have to wonder how he got there and how he justified it in his mind. The desire to escape is powerful in our culture, and the ability to do so is rare. That's why watching/reading re-creations of Cooper's jump are enthralling - much like the opening scenes in Casablanca, when the young couple looks wistfully up and the woman goes, "Perhaps tomorrow we'll be on that plane." We don't know what Cooper was REALLY escaping. We can only look up and imagine.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 03:11:29 PM by Lynn »
 
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