DB COOPER

General Category => DB Cooper => Topic started by: Shutter on February 24, 2014, 08:30:55 AM

Title: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on February 24, 2014, 08:30:55 AM
Here we can talk about any given suspect.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on March 01, 2014, 11:18:08 AM
Suspect Number 1 in my book is Sheridan L Peterson who lived at my house for a month and it was ten years before Norjak. I am very sure that he did the job as he was planning the caper when at my place. He wanted to know all I knew as a Boeing Engineer about the 727 and if the aft airstairs could be deployed in the air. I told him he could find out all about the 727 by getting a job a Boeing in the Manuals and Handbooks Group, which he did. While working at the Boeing Company he staarted the Boeing Skydiving Club which did jumps out of the Issaquah Sky Sports DZ. He had to have known Earl Cossey who worked there as the Rigger. Did he enlist him as a partner in the Norjak caper as the ground man and launderer of the loot?

Sheridan's qualifications:
1) right age and had been a Smoke Jumper for three years
2) Olive complextion and looks just like the FBI sketch
3) 6 ft tall and many skydiving experiences
4) Photographed for an advertizement in the Boeing News (May 1962) wearing the same cloths and shoes as DB Cooper did in 1972.
5) He made Boeing event jump wearing the same cloths and carrying a 50 lb bag of flower (to make smoke trails) between his legs.
6) Calm composure and a good talker
7) Obtained his Instructor Certification at Issaquah Sky Sports
8) He was a Marine Machine Gunner during WWII having joined at 16 in 1941
9) He was visited twice by the FBI and they took his DNA and fingerprints

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: smokin99 on March 01, 2014, 02:11:48 PM
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Suspect Number 1 in my book is Sheridan L Peterson who lived at my house for a month and it was ten years before Norjak. I am very sure that he did the job as he was planning the caper when at my place. He wanted to know all I knew as a Boeing Engineer about the 727 and if the aft airstairs could be deployed in the air. I told him he could find out all about the 727 by getting a job a Boeing in the Manuals and Handbooks Group, which he did. While working at the Boeing Company he staarted the Boeing Skydiving Club which did jumps out of the Issaquah Sky Sports DZ. He had to have known Earl Cossey who worked there as the Rigger. Did he enlist him as a partner in the Norjak caper as the ground man and launderer of the loot?

Sheridan's qualifications:
1) right age and had been a Smoke Jumper for three years
2) Olive complextion and looks just like the FBI sketch
3) 6 ft tall and many skydiving experiences
4) Photographed for an advertizement in the Boeing News (May 1962) wearing the same cloths and shoes as DB Cooper did in 1972.
5) He made Boeing event jump wearing the same cloths and carrying a 50 lb bag of flower (to make smoke trails) between his legs.
6) Calm composure and a good talker
7) Obtained his Instructor Certification at Issaquah Sky Sports
8) He was a Marine Machine Gunner during WWII having joined at 16 in 1941
9) He was visited twice by the FBI and they took his DNA and fingerprints

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com

so far so good, but then....

eye color = blue
had a serious case of receding hairline (aka ale pattern baldness ;) going on at the time
Claims he can prove he was in living in Nepal at the time and that children were born there.
Since he 's not been arrested for the caper, maybe the prints and DNA didn't match?

Just looking at qualifications Sheridan Peterson would make a great candidate, but you can't list his qualifications without also listing the stuff that you have to explain away by  things like colored contacts, wigs, surreptitious flights back into the US, and the FBI screwed up so they have no prints/dna to compare against.
Just saying there might be reasonable explanations or ways to exclude the items I listed, but on the face of it they do impinge on his qualifications.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: smokin99 on March 01, 2014, 03:22:26 PM
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Suspect Number 1 in my book is Sheridan L Peterson who lived at my house for a month and it was ten years before Norjak. I am very sure that he did the job as he was planning the caper when at my place. He wanted to know all I knew as a Boeing Engineer about the 727 and if the aft airstairs could be deployed in the air. I told him he could find out all about the 727 by getting a job a Boeing in the Manuals and Handbooks Group, which he did. While working at the Boeing Company he staarted the Boeing Skydiving Club which did jumps out of the Issaquah Sky Sports DZ. He had to have known Earl Cossey who worked there as the Rigger. Did he enlist him as a partner in the Norjak caper as the ground man and launderer of the loot?

Sheridan's qualifications:
1) right age and had been a Smoke Jumper for three years
2) Olive complextion and looks just like the FBI sketch
3) 6 ft tall and many skydiving experiences
4) Photographed for an advertizement in the Boeing News (May 1962) wearing the same cloths and shoes as DB Cooper did in 1972.
5) He made Boeing event jump wearing the same cloths and carrying a 50 lb bag of flower (to make smoke trails) between his legs.
6) Calm composure and a good talker
7) Obtained his Instructor Certification at Issaquah Sky Sports
8) He was a Marine Machine Gunner during WWII having joined at 16 in 1941
9) He was visited twice by the FBI and they took his DNA and fingerprints

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com

so far so good, but then....

eye color = blue
had a serious case of receding hairline (aka ale pattern baldness ;) going on at the time
Claims he can prove he was in living in Nepal at the time and that children were born there.
Since he 's not been arrested for the caper, maybe the prints and DNA didn't match?

Just looking at qualifications Sheridan Peterson would make a great candidate, but you can't list his qualifications without also listing the stuff that you have to explain away by  things like colored contacts, wigs, surreptitious flights back into the US, and the FBI screwed up so they have no prints/dna to compare against.
Just saying there might be reasonable explanations or ways to exclude the items I listed, but on the face of it they do impinge on his qualifications.

meant to share this again also - in case anyone was interested. Wonder if this guy came across Peterson  :)
http://vimeo.com/23175499 (http://vimeo.com/23175499)
Title: Re: Suspects and a Eugene Connection?
Post by: georger on March 01, 2014, 03:44:15 PM
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Just saying there might be reasonable explanations or ways to exclude the items I listed, but on the face of it they do impinge on his qualifications.


During the recent WSHM events, Bill Mitchell remarked that of the suspect photos he was shown
post 11-24, a large number were from the Eugene area. This may relate to the 'Eugene Incident'
which happened in Eugene airspace the weekend before 11-24, as related to me by controllers
and others involved in the Cooper case.

During the evening of Nov 20th, 1971, the weekend before the Cooper hijacking at Portland, the
control tower and local law enforcement at Eugene began to get calls about someone dropping
flares from a small airplane, then flying in patterns indicative of tracking the flare's drift and
descent. Attempts to communicate with or track and identify the aircraft failed. Approximately 90
minutes later an unidentified small aircraft appeared on Eugene radar again, and more reports of
the flare dropping activity began to come in, to the Eugene airport and to local law enforcement,
in a different area outside Eugene. Officials directly involved that night say that an FAA report was
filed, and the FBI notified.

This incident gained further attention the night of the Cooper hijacking, and was openly discussed
by ATC and FBI officials after #305  had safely passed through Portland - Eugene airspace and the
investigation began to take form and commence. Mucklow had described the bomb as consisting
of red sticks ... and Himmelsbach believed 'red sticks' indicated road flares, not actual dynamite.
Those recalling the flare dropping at Eugene just a few days earlier, wondered if there could be a connection ?

Then the Janet report at Vancouver surfaced! Janet contacted the FBI in the days following the
Cooper hijacking, with another 'flare/fire' dropping report. Janet claims that FBI agents visited her
home and asked her to 'keep quiet' about her report, except that at least two others surfaced at
Vancouver with similar 'fire' (dropping) reports, almost immediately after the hijacking. (Janet
and/or her husband may be the origin of all of the reports made at Vancouver - this has never
been clarified).

So, when Bill Mitchell says he was shown a large number of photos of 'suspects' from the Eugene
area (and was told these suspects were from the Eugene area), the Eugene flare dropping
incident may be the 'link' the FBI was trying to explore, in the hope of finding Mr. Cooper.

Perhaps Cooper was practicing for the hijacking in the Eugene area prior to the hijacking, or he
knew someone and was in league with someone who had a light plane in the Eugene area, ...
but of the suspects Bill Mitchell was shown it would be interesting to see how their genetic
profiles compare with the 'partial' the FBI apparently has.

Geoff Gray says nothing about the Eugene incident in his book. Apparently he didn't run across
the files? Himmelsbach doesn't mention the incident in his book either.

Maybe the Eugene incident and the Cooper hijacking are not related at all.



 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on March 01, 2014, 05:04:21 PM
I don't think so, Georger.   In fact, I don't believe a bit of that nutty "Janet story."  Just more crap invented.  The FBI doesn't go around intimidating young housewives.  That's not what they do.  Hey wasn't there some guy who was supposed to be in contact with William Mitchell?  What happened with that?  Didn't Mitchell want to talk with him?   There is a lot of fraud associated with the Cooper case.  From what I hear most of it comes from the same fellow.   And I heard you did a good job of exposing him, and he's permanently barred from all the good sites.   I guess over time, everyone can sniff out an old fraud.  What a title to bare.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on March 02, 2014, 12:07:19 AM
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I don't think so, Georger.   In fact, I don't believe a bit of that nutty "Janet story."  Just more crap invented.  The FBI doesn't go around intimidating young housewives.  That's not what they do.  Hey wasn't there some guy who was supposed to be in contact with William Mitchell?  What happened with that?  Didn't Mitchell want to talk with him?   There is a lot of fraud associated with the Cooper case.  From what I hear most of it comes from the same fellow.   And I heard you did a good job of exposing him, and he's permanently barred from all the good sites.   I guess over time, everyone can sniff out an old fraud.  What a title to bare.

This sir, is a piss poor job at imitating Ed Sullivan. I ran your statement through a language
processor (see below) looking for anything a human would recognise as Human thought forms
and guess what: the closest thing I can come up with are the words of "Topo Gigio", the almost
exact same words Topo uttered on October 10, 1965, on the Ed Sullivan Show! I will leave it for the Moderator to judge - COMPLAINT FILED AGAINST YOU SIR!  Please stick to the topic.
stop free ranging, and get your FACTS straight!  I guess over time, everyone can sniff out an old fraud.  What a title to bare, indeed. I fire your own words straight back at you, imposter!
 :-[ :P :P :P
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on March 02, 2014, 04:00:09 AM
Don't give me any shit, Georger.  Just cause you're a college professor, doesn't give you carte' blanc to file complaints at random.  I'm filing a counter complaint to Shutter and asking him to put you on suspension.   Who's handing out the bad drugs over at the DZ?   Hello Mudda, Hello Faddah..........................
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on March 02, 2014, 08:15:04 AM
***WARNING***

.
.
Ok, time out, flag, off sides, illegal motion. let's stop right here guys. I will not tolerate any attacks here. let's keep on the Cooper subject and not insult anyone if the facts are not correct. if something is wrong with things presented. please explain the reason without insults.

Next, lets try keeping the DZ out of the picture on this forum. I will not allow the same thing to happen here. you guys need to get along. I'm trying to make this forum a place to discuss Cooper. lets keep it that way. I'm going to say this nice one time. I'm not going to take sides in this issue, nor will I tolerate it. we have come a long way, I don't want things getting out of hand. you guys might want to take note that there is a "ignore list" function on this forum. you might want to consider that use in the future if you can't get along!

I need positive attitudes here people. I don't expect to wake up to this type of problem in the future. I expect you guys will respect me, as well as what I'm trying to achieve for us all to enjoy!

Thanks.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on March 02, 2014, 06:06:55 PM
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***WARNING***

.
.
Ok, time out, flag, off sides, illegal motion. let's stop right here guys. I will not tolerate any attacks here. let's keep on the Cooper subject and not insult anyone if the facts are not correct. if something is wrong with things presented. please explain the reason without insults.

Next, lets try keeping the DZ out of the picture on this forum. I will not allow the same thing to happen here. you guys need to get along. I'm trying to make this forum a place to discuss Cooper. lets keep it that way. I'm going to say this nice one time. I'm not going to take sides in this issue, nor will I tolerate it. we have come a long way, I don't want things getting out of hand. you guys might want to take note that there is a "ignore list" function on this forum. you might want to consider that use in the future if you can't get along!

I need positive attitudes here people. I don't expect to wake up to this type of problem in the future. I expect you guys will respect me, as well as what I'm trying to achieve for us all to enjoy!

Thanks.

APOLOGIES   -   SYSTEM TEST COMPLETE   -  THANK YOU!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on March 02, 2014, 06:12:17 PM
I'm getting the feeling I've been punked. keep in mind April 1st is coming....... 8)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on March 02, 2014, 08:25:33 PM
Ok, sorry Shutter.  I'll mind my manners and watch my language.  Sorry Georger, well......sorta.  On another note:  my 4th grade grand-daughter came home last week with a copy of "Into the Blast, the TRUE story of D.B. Cooper."  She really liked it and apparently the teacher is using the book for reading outloud.   But my 4th grader couldn't understand a few things about the book;
1.  If DBC used a square chute in 71 and jumped under blue skies during the day (book cover) why couldn't the FBI find him?  And the other picture shows Cooper landing at day on a prairie.   (back cover).
2.  If Captain Scott went back to 18E to meet and have a conversation with DBC, wouldn't Scott have been the "best" eyewitness?  (page 27).
3.  If DBC landed near the Lewis River near Paradise Point State Park, why would he bury the money upstream of the LR drainage into the Columbia River?  (page 37, 39).
4.  Could DBC really see the street signs at the intersection of NW 389th St. and NW 3rd Ave late at night?  Our teacher says those streets didn't have signs in 1971.  (page 36).
5.   The book says that, "Mr. Porteous is widely quoted in various news media."   But why has Mr. Porteous been unquoted "anywhere" since his book came out?  Is Mr. Porteous still in hiding?
  (page 143).

Anyway, 4th graders are pretty sharp and ask good questions.  They can't wait for the sequel(s), or the revised versions.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on March 03, 2014, 12:56:44 AM
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Ok, sorry Shutter.  I'll mind my manners and watch my language.  Sorry Georger, well......sorta.  On another note:  my 4th grade grand-daughter came home last week with a copy of "Into the Blast, the TRUE story of D.B. Cooper."  She really liked it and apparently the teacher is using the book for reading outloud.   But my 4th grader couldn't understand a few things about the book;
1.  If DBC used a square chute in 71 and jumped under blue skies during the day (book cover) why couldn't the FBI find him?  And the other picture shows Cooper landing at day on a prairie.   (back cover).
2.  If Captain Scott went back to 18E to meet and have a conversation with DBC, wouldn't Scott have been the "best" eyewitness?  (page 27).
3.  If DBC landed near the Lewis River near Paradise Point State Park, why would he bury the money upstream of the LR drainage into the Columbia River?  (page 37, 39).
4.  Could DBC really see the street signs at the intersection of NW 389th St. and NW 3rd Ave late at night?  Our teacher says those streets didn't have signs in 1971.  (page 36).
5.   The book says that, "Mr. Porteous is widely quoted in various news media."   But why has Mr. Porteous been unquoted "anywhere" since his book came out?  Is Mr. Porteous still in hiding?
  (page 143).

Anyway, 4th graders are pretty sharp and ask good questions.  They can't wait for the sequel(s), or the revised versions.

My sympathies to your grand daughter.  :) ;)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on March 04, 2014, 10:48:05 AM
Smoking99

You say:

"eye color = blue
had a serious case of receding hairline (aka ale pattern baldness ;) going on at the time
Claims he can prove he was in living in Nepal at the time and that children were born there.
Since he 's not been arrested for the caper, maybe the prints and DNA didn't match?

Just looking at qualifications Sheridan Peterson would make a great candidate, but you can't list his qualifications without also listing the stuff that you have to explain away by  things like colored contacts, wigs, surreptitious flights back into the US, and the FBI screwed up so they have no prints/dna to compare against.
Just saying there might be reasonable explanations or ways to exclude the items I listed, but on the face of it they do impinge on his qualifications"

I say:   DB Cooper spent time showing off his eye color to two Flight Attendants and close up before putting on the Sun Glasses for the remainder of his flight. Everything he did was for a reason as he really had planned his caper for a long time. I believe he had cosmetic brown contact lens to made his eyes look brown to the Flight Attendants and cover his true color of blue. Simple disguise to fool the FBI using the brown colored contacts.
Sheridan did not have a problem with hair baldness as can be seen in his photo from the Boeing News paper advertizing the new Boeing Skydiving Club. In fact, his photo matches the FBI blown-up sketch on the wall at the Tacoma Museum DB Cooper display. That was noticed by Meyer Louis while we were all there for the show. Partial receding of the hair line as in the FBI sketch. Sheridan's qualifications make him a standout suspect and probably #1 at least in my book. His alibi that he was in Nepal doesn't mean much as a two day trip or less puts him in Portland (Nepal to Bangkok to Portland or Seattle - two flights). Did he have someone else present at the birth of one of his children in Nepal to complete the "Perfect Alibi"? The question of finger prints that the FBI could get from the plane have been in question as DB could have covered his fingers prints with airplane cement so none would be left. DNA on tie clasp could have been from his female partner that helped him get dressed.

HOWEVER - This needs to be done!
The DNA from under the stamps/envelope flaps of the four letters sent to the newspapers following Norjak is still waiting for the FBI to look at and compare with what they have from Sheridan taken by the two female FBI agents. A match places him at the scene of the crime in Portland and blows away his Perfect Alibi of being in Nepal.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on March 04, 2014, 03:09:29 PM
Hey Georger:

4th grade teach decided to ditch the book, Blast, and send all of them into the trash.  The kiddies spotted too many factual errors, too many made-up fables, and an author that kept repeating only one piece of alleged witness accounting that formed the basis for the entire book.  Smart bunch, those 4th graders.  They decided to go back to "cat in the hat" series which offers better information.
snoop.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on March 04, 2014, 07:54:43 PM
To Smoking99 more evidence pointing to Sheridan Peterson being DB Cooper

The Citizen Sleuths were very good at researching and found very small particles on DB Cooper's tie. The two types of Titanium (pure and alloy) were of particular interest to me as there was only one place in the North West that the two types could have come from and that is Boeing. When I talked with Tom Kaye, he ruled out Boeing as he thought we were only using alloy titanium in our SST (Super Sonic Transport) airplane. It was too bad that he made that wrong guess as the particles were like an address as to where the tie had been. The Materials and Processes Lab (M&P Lab) was located in the 9-101 Building at the Development Center in Seattle. The 9-101 building had a full scale cutout of the SST on the North side of the building and could be viewed by the public heading South on Marginal Way. That lab was working with both types of titanium and actually flame spraying pure titanium on the leading surfaces of the wing as the pure titanium had better high temperature and abrasion characteristics over the alloy being used in the SST.

Now, the M&P Lab was located in the North West corner of the 9-101 building on the main floor and had scrap metal tote boxes in the two hallways around the lab. How many boxes? Maybe 20 or so that were used to collect scrap metal from the lab before being scraped. People passed by the open tote boxes as many as four times a day on their way to office spaces on the second floor and to the cafeteria. Sheridan's worked in the Manuals Hand Books Group that was on the second floor just above the M&P Lab. My office for the Structures Test Group was just to the South of Sheridan's office and above the Structures Lab on the main floor. As Sheridan passed by the open scrap boxes, he would have easily looked into the boxes to see the neat scrap things from the M&P Lab and his tie could have hung down into the scrap and picked-up the two types of titanium that were available there. I was doing some strain gage work and using the M&P Lab to flame spray the strain gages on to metal surfaces we tested.

So, the particles on the tie pointed (like an address to his office) to where Sheridan worked and how his tie could have got the particles on it. That ties Sheridan to DB Cooper by the tie left on the plane. Machine operators were not allowed to wear ties as it was too dangerous and could get caught in the machinery. Sheridan was an office worker and would have worn a tie like he did in the Boeing News photo. He was dressed just like DB Cooper including the pig skin loafers.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on March 04, 2014, 09:08:59 PM
Where colored contacts are concerned, I have been unable to find anything that shows they were available at the time of the hijacking. Of course, this would not be the first time I've been wrong. Can someone show that colored contacts would have been a viable option for Peterson, or any other suspect.

According to this link:

1980 Tinted daily wear soft lenses were made available.

1988 Cosmetic coloured lenses made available.


http://www.collegeoptometrists.org/en/college/museyeum/online_exhibitions/contact_lenses/soft.cfm


Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on March 04, 2014, 09:25:11 PM
here is what I found on a quick search....see photo
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on March 05, 2014, 11:11:46 AM
Parrotheadvol:

You say:  "Where colored contacts are concerned, I have been unable to find anything that shows they were available at the time of the hijacking. Of course, this would not be the first time I've been wrong. Can someone show that colored contacts would have been a viable option for Peterson, or any other suspect."

I say:    My wife wore contacts in those days and it was common practice for the lens to be tinted (colored) so they could be easy to find when not in the eye. The use by actors to play parts with eyes changed from blue to brown (cosmetic color change) was also common and can be seen in movies of those days. My wife had hers colored blue to make them easy to find but her choice could have been brown too. Tinting was done by the local labs here in Seattle and was not a big deal.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on March 05, 2014, 02:19:12 PM
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Parrotheadvol:

You say:  "Where colored contacts are concerned, I have been unable to find anything that shows they were available at the time of the hijacking. Of course, this would not be the first time I've been wrong. Can someone show that colored contacts would have been a viable option for Peterson, or any other suspect."

I say:    My wife wore contacts in those days and it was common practice for the lens to be tinted (colored) so they could be easy to find when not in the eye. The use by actors to play parts with eyes changed from blue to brown (cosmetic color change) was also common and can be seen in movies of those days. My wife had hers colored blue to make them easy to find but her choice could have been brown too. Tinting was done by the local labs here in Seattle and was not a big deal.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com

Soft contact lenses were invented in 1971 according to the graphic Shutter posted, but before then there were hard contact lenses.  Coloring those would be no different than coloring eye glasses.  Anyone who ever wore those know it was basically  putting a piece of glass in your eye -- and they took a long time to get used to and were very uncomfortable.  So if Peterson was wearing hard contacts, he would have started wearing them well before that.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on March 05, 2014, 06:04:09 PM
MarkBennett

You are right on about the hard contact lens and how available they were at the time of Norjak. My wife got her first contacts in 1959 and we were married just one year. The first contacts she got were hard glass and took a little time to get used to but by the 1970's plastic hard lens became the thing and finally soft breathable plastic lens that were easy to wear for much longer times.

Research on the internet says
:  "The drawback for these early contact lenses was the material. It was not until 1934 when the introduction of PMMA plastic (polymethylmethacrylate) continued the evolution of contact lenses. This new material was optically clear like glass and could be molded, tinted, and modified to fit the surface of the eye for a better fitting lens. Several other doctors of the time took advantage of this advancement in technology to push forth the idea of contact lenses. - See more at: http://www.optometrystudents.com/a-complete-history-of-contact-lenses/#sthash.KEsJCsLM.dpuf"

Sheridan could have had colored plastic lens or could have taken a pair of clear plastic lens and masked-off the center to see through and sprayed the remainder of the lens with brown lacquer. He was very clever and a do-it-yourself kind of guy. Home made or lab tinted contacts (either one) would have done the job for Norjak. This all makes sense as to why DB made it sure that two of the Flight Attendants were shown his eyes up close before he put on the Sun Glasses for the remainder of the flight. They both said he had brown eyes that you could look deeply into. Yes, I believe he changed his eye color to throw the FBI off and did little else to hide his ID. His fingers (print area) could have been covered with airplane cement or clear lacquer so as not to show but would leave no prints for the FBI to find on the plane.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: smokin99 on March 05, 2014, 10:18:23 PM
Colored contacts were available in the 1950s. I've got no problem with speculation that DB Cooper could have worn colored contacts. Like I said, Peterson definitely has the qualifications but you can't overlook the sticky wickets.  :)

My point was only that - to be a truly honest and thoughtful discussion - along with listing the qualifications, one should list the caveats. In Peterson's case, those would be blue eyes, frontal baldness/super - receding hairline (whatever you want to call it - but no witness mentioned that much "forehead"), the fact that he says he was in Nepal, and the fact that the FBI has supposedly ruled him out via DBA/prints. The same full disclosure should be required regardless of the suspect. 

THEN you can proceed to explain all that away and make your case - as you are doing. So all's good.  :)

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on March 06, 2014, 10:45:01 AM
Smoking99

The evidence that Meyer Louis discovered at the Tacoma Museum Cooper display was the "scar/dimple" shown in both the FBI sketch and the Boeing News photo of Sheridan's face. The scar/dimple is about one inch from his mouth in the direction of his left ear. Could this be FBI hold-back to help them identify the real suspects? DB Cooper sat with Tina on his left and she would have seen the scar/dimple and possibly that is why the mark is shown in the FBI sketch in the blow-up on the Museum wall?

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on March 06, 2014, 01:29:53 PM
Bob,

Do you know what witness reaction - especially Tina - has been to pictures of Peterson?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on March 06, 2014, 06:28:21 PM
Parrotheadvol


You ask:  "Do you know what witness reaction - especially Tina - has been to pictures of Peterson?"

I say:   I don't think Tina was shown pictures of Peterson as the FBI did not have the Boeing News photo that I found in their files until I sent them a copy this year. The FBI was probably happy with his "Perfect Alibi" of being in Nepal at the time of Norjak. The DNA and fingerprints from the plane were not any good anyway and not conclusive. However, they have good DNA and fingerprints that the two female FBI agents got from Pererson.

All the FBI needs to solve the crime is to get the DNA from under the stamps/envelope flaps of the four letters sent to the news papers following Norjak and compare it with what they have from Sharidan Peterson. A match would prove he was in  Portland (the scene of the crime) and not in Nepal per his "Perfect Alibi. That does not prove he was DB Cooper but would prove he lied to the FBI (a Federal Crime) and was not in Nepal during Norjak. This would finally blow the case wide open and is the "Smoking Gun".

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on March 06, 2014, 07:44:52 PM
Hi Bob, does anyone have any handwriting from Peterson? anything to compare to the letters sent to the FBI? what makes you think those letters are from Cooper? I always question them since they were noted by DB Cooper, and not Dan Cooper. I'm not sold they came from Cooper. there is always the possibility though.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: smokin99 on March 06, 2014, 09:04:27 PM
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Smoking99

The evidence that Meyer Louis discovered at the Tacoma Museum Cooper display was the "scar/dimple" shown in both the FBI sketch and the Boeing News photo of Sheridan's face. The scar/dimple is about one inch from his mouth in the direction of his left ear. Could this be FBI hold-back to help them identify the real suspects? DB Cooper sat with Tina on his left and she would have seen the scar/dimple and possibly that is why the mark is shown in the FBI sketch in the blow-up on the Museum wall?

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com

I'll give you that he favors the composite. I'm not arguing that. But so does Kenny C. I really don't think I've ever seen a suspect that didn't look like the composite if  I squint hard enough. Granted some more than others.
 
The problem is -- putting aside the idea that the FBI might have been withholding specifics of his description, which I agree is a real possibility -- certain features on some of the known "suspects" that you would think would have garnered a descriptive phrase from the witnesses did not as far as we know. Like, for example:

Witness: He had  big ears and nose (Duane Weber), he was short and bald (Kenny C); his hairline receded more than average and he had droopy hooded eyes (Sheridan), he had thick, short, slanted eyebrows (Gossett).
I could list more suspects, but you get my drift.
 
Far from it, according to a video interview given by the composite artist -- the witnesses interviewed for the composite all stated his facial features were nondescript except for one distinguishing feature and that was a protruding lip.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on March 07, 2014, 09:54:28 AM
Sutter

You say: "Hi Bob, does anyone have any handwriting from Peterson? anything to compare to the letters sent to the FBI? what makes you think those letters are from Cooper? I always question them since they were noted by DB Cooper, and not Dan Cooper. I'm not sold they came from Cooper. there is always the possibility though."

I say:  When I first heard about the four letters, my thought was that some kook had written them, but when I saw the salutation on letter #3 ("The System That Beats The System"), then I knew it was from Sheridan as that was his mantra the whole month he stayed at my home. He even suggested that the two of us had enough College Degrees between us that we should be able to "figure a way to beat the system". Remember he was at my home ten years before Norjak and was in early planing on how to make the jump. When I saw that salutation on letter#3, I knew then it was from Sheridan and that he made a safe jump and survived. I think trying to compare hand writing would be a waste of time as he would have been clever enough to disguise how it looked.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on March 07, 2014, 03:49:02 PM
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Sutter

You say: "Hi Bob, does anyone have any handwriting from Peterson? anything to compare to the letters sent to the FBI? what makes you think those letters are from Cooper? I always question them since they were noted by DB Cooper, and not Dan Cooper. I'm not sold they came from Cooper. there is always the possibility though."

I say:  When I first heard about the four letters, my thought was that some kook had written them, but when I saw the salutation on letter #3 ("The System That Beats The System"), then I knew it was from Sheridan as that was his mantra the whole month he stayed at my home. He even suggested that the two of us had enough College Degrees between us that we should be able to "figure a way to beat the system". Remember he was at my home ten years before Norjak and was in early planing on how to make the jump. When I saw that salutation on letter#3, I knew then it was from Sheridan and that he made a safe jump and survived. I think trying to compare hand writing would be a waste of time as he would have been clever enough to disguise how it looked.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com

You know, Ted" Kaczynsk's brother had the same reaction when he saw the Una Bomber's manifesto printed in a newspaper. He recognised similar phrases. As far as the brother was concerned (and then the brother's wife also) there was little doubt "Ted" had written 'the manifesto'. They contacted the FBI. But Ted was not D.B. Cooper!

The author of the letters does not guarantee the author was Cooper.

   
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on March 08, 2014, 10:23:54 AM
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Smoking99

The evidence that Meyer Louis discovered at the Tacoma Museum Cooper display was the "scar/dimple" shown in both the FBI sketch and the Boeing News photo of Sheridan's face. The scar/dimple is about one inch from his mouth in the direction of his left ear. Could this be FBI hold-back to help them identify the real suspects? DB Cooper sat with Tina on his left and she would have seen the scar/dimple and possibly that is why the mark is shown in the FBI sketch in the blow-up on the Museum wall?

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
IF YOU CLICK ON THE PHOTO'S THEY WILL BOTH BE ENLARGED SO THAT THE SCAR/DIMPLE CAN BE COMPARED. SO CICK AND ENLARGE BOTH PHOTO TO VIEW THEM ENLARGED

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on March 08, 2014, 11:10:12 AM
SORRY TO KEEP POSTING SO MUCH BUT WOULD LIKE TO SHOW THE BLOW-UP OF SHERIDAN'S LOAFERS FROM THE BOEING NEWS PHOTO:

THE LOAFERS FIT THE FLIGHT ATTENDANTS DESCRIPTION OF "  IMITATION PIG SKIN LEATHER LOAFERS "

CLICK ON PHOTO TO ENLARGE
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: smokin99 on March 08, 2014, 12:24:50 PM
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SORRY TO KEEP POSTING SO MUCH BUT WOULD LIKE TO SHOW THE BLOW-UP OF SHERIDAN'S LOAFERS FROM THE BOEING NEWS PHOTO:

THE LOAFERS FIT THE FLIGHT ATTENDANTS DESCRIPTION OF "  IMITATION PIG SKIN LEATHER LOAFERS "

CLICK ON PHOTO TO ENLARGE

thanks for the photo. My only comment...and again I'm not arguing - just pointing out some things that Sheridan's defense attorney might bring up.
How can you determine that those are imitation pig skin leather loafers from a picture?  --and-- loafers are most often defined as low step-in shoes, without laces, resembling a moccasin (may be with or without tassels or penny).
I could be wrong but if I were on the jury I don't know that I would look at those shoes and think "loafers".
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on March 08, 2014, 03:14:29 PM
"SORRY TO KEEP POSTING SO MUCH "

Sailshaw, you post as many times as you wish sir. I don't think anyone would object. I would rather see multiple posts instead of multiple arguments  8)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on March 08, 2014, 11:47:55 PM
Smokin99

You say:  " thanks for the photo. My only comment...and again I'm not arguing - just pointing out some things that Sheridan's defense attorney might bring up.
How can you determine that those are imitation pig skin leather loafers from a picture?  --and-- loafers are most often defined as low step-in shoes, without laces, resembling a moccasin (may be with or without tassels or penny).
I could be wrong but if I were on the jury I don't know that I would look at those shoes and think "loafers".

I say: "In those days Sheridan would not have had money to waste on "real pig skin" and they look like what we called "loafers" with no more laces than four and low cut and not oxfords. Sorry but some loafers had laces but not as many as oxfords. You are probably thinking about "penney loafers" that had no laces but that did not define what we called loafer. They had a slot for a penney to be inserted but all loafers did not have penney slots either. We really need to ask the Flight Attendants if the Sharidan loafers were like what they saw on DB Cooper. I don't think Tina is able to talk about the case but possibly the other Attendant might
Too bad we can't show Tina the photo of Sheridan's face and the scar/dinple on his left cheek.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com





Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on March 12, 2014, 09:20:32 AM
Hi All
I think that I made a mis-speak in that I said Sheridan's loafers were "Pig Skin" and looking through the info I have the crew said they were "Pebble Grain Leather Loafers". So no Pig Skin in the description, sorry. My loafers that I wear daily are two eye lace-ups and low cut like Sheridan's so they can be put on and off without using the laces. Notice that Sheridan's socks are white which is not normal with a dark suit but some did it in those days to help with their athletics feet problems. Did DB Cooper wear white socks? REMEMBER TO CLICK ON THE PICTURE TO ENLARGE
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MeyerLouie on March 14, 2014, 05:03:28 AM
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Hey Georger:

4th grade teach decided to ditch the book, Blast, and send all of them into the trash.  The kiddies spotted too many factual errors, too many made-up fables, and an author that kept repeating only one piece of alleged witness accounting that formed the basis for the entire book.  Smart bunch, those 4th graders.  They decided to go back to "cat in the hat" series which offers better information.
snoop.

Coopsnoop:  4th graders had this level of sophistication discussing the Cooper case?  All those insightful, adult questions posed earlier?  I don't buy it, it sounds pretty contrived.  Why don't you just come out and pose your questions and concerns, no need to hide behind a bunch of 4th graders.  We're adults here, we can handle it.  MeyerLouie
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on March 14, 2014, 02:45:06 PM
CLICK ON PHOTOS

Compare my avitar of DB/Sheridan with photo of Duane. Hairline, ears, nose, lips, jaw and chin. Duane does not fit the description.

Bob Sailshaw

CLICK ON PHOTOS
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on March 15, 2014, 09:40:01 PM
Has anyone seen this from the WSHM  8) this should cause a stir.  ;D

http://www.seattlemet.com/arts-and-entertainment/culture-fiend/articles/crack-the-d-b-cooper-case-at-washington-state-history-museum-august-2013 (http://www.seattlemet.com/arts-and-entertainment/culture-fiend/articles/crack-the-d-b-cooper-case-at-washington-state-history-museum-august-2013)


Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on March 15, 2014, 09:44:49 PM
Interesting topic here....possible suspect

http://mynameisearl.blogspot.com/ (http://mynameisearl.blogspot.com/)

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: smokin99 on March 16, 2014, 12:33:07 PM
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Interesting topic here....possible suspect

http://mynameisearl.blogspot.com/ (http://mynameisearl.blogspot.com/)

The post is dated 2011. Came out in response to the uproar with Marla's brush with fame no doubt.
I wonder if he ever followed up?
Looks like the blog hasn't been updated for a couple of years but the links are active and the CA PI license for his company is current.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on March 16, 2014, 01:03:19 PM
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Interesting topic here....possible suspect

http://mynameisearl.blogspot.com/ (http://mynameisearl.blogspot.com/)

The post is dated 2011. Came out in response to the uproar with Marla's brush with fame no doubt.
I wonder if he ever followed up?
Looks like the blog hasn't been updated for a couple of years but the links are active and the CA PI license for his company is current.


I doubt anything came of it, just thought I would toss it out there.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: BuckwheatFlowers on March 24, 2014, 09:50:30 PM
After 9 months of looking into this case I've personally ruled out 3 suspects so far....
1. Duane Weber
2. Kenny Christiansen
3. Elvis Presley
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on March 24, 2014, 09:55:16 PM
Ruling out Christiansen is a no brainer. What are your reasons for ruling out Weber?

(By me asking that, please don't jump to the conclusion that I think that Weber may be Cooper....I do not. Just curious about your conclusions).

Are there any suspects you are intrigued by?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: BuckwheatFlowers on March 24, 2014, 10:11:39 PM
Mainly because I've read 3 encyclopedias worth of posts (from the only person who thinks he is Cooper) without any evidence of him ever being in a parachute, or in the area during the time of the crime.  Also, I have seen no evidence that he was even close to smart enough to come up with, let alone pull off, that kind of caper.  Not to mention he doesn't look anything at all like the sketch in my opinion.

As far as suspects that I think are intriguing.... Pederson (sp?) certainly looks like the sketch.  The father of the girl that posts here and dz(don't get mad if you read this.... can't think of your name at the moment....sorry...cheers) is curious to me.  I also thought Braden (I think that's the guy's name) seemed like a solid possibility.  Whatever became of that guy?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on March 24, 2014, 10:24:43 PM
Braden is still a top-notch suspect, even if he is 5'8".  He's got the Cooper smirk in spades, plus the skills.  However, I don't think he's the guy, but I think that somebody like him is most likely Dan Cooper.

I find lots of flaws with all of the favorite suspects - Barb, Duane, McCoy, Peterson, Burnworth, Uncle LD, KC, and even List, who was touted here a few days ago.  I'm not a big fan of Gossett, either, even though he is reportedly still on the suspect list at Seattle FO. 

I think Dan Cooper is more from the shadows. If I had to make a bet I'd say someone from really secret ops in Vietnam - a super-trooper, elite commando guy - well trained, smart, fearless and able to keep his mouth shut.  Plus, he's got family and friends that don't need to blab about him.

In general, I feel that any suspect that has a cheering section or a family that wants him to be a skyjacker simply ain't Dan Cooper. That then begs the question of why so many folks want their brother, husband, uncle, etc to be Dan Cooper.  People like Lyle C want it bad, too.  That's a second mystery.  After all, 922 people confessed to being DB Cooper?  Whew! What gives, America????
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on March 24, 2014, 10:32:32 PM
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Interesting topic here....possible suspect

http://mynameisearl.blogspot.com/ (http://mynameisearl.blogspot.com/)

The post is dated 2011. Came out in response to the uproar with Marla's brush with fame no doubt.
I wonder if he ever followed up?
Looks like the blog hasn't been updated for a couple of years but the links are active and the CA PI license for his company is current.


I'm following up now.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on March 24, 2014, 10:55:02 PM
Personally, I don't have a favorite, or even a suspect in mind. special ops type I'm not sold on either. I hope Matt joins in this conversation. let me ask this. why did Cooper dress the way he did. lets say he had thermals on, but the shoes? I kind of wonder similar to what Carr thinks. is it possible he was to familiar with McChord AFB? did he have it planed to jump near there and walk back on base? things point to him wanting out of the plane soon. this is nothing I'm looking into of sort, but something tells me they are connected.

McCoy ended up in the search for himself for crying out loud. McCoy was obviously connected to military, and very experienced to say the least. Cooper I'm not so sure he was fully aware of what he was getting into. Cooper himself is like a lot of the suspects. they look good on the outside, but once you start looking inside. things don't add up. are we to believe he noticed the difference in the two reserves and destroyed the good chute knowing the other was bad, and did he this to make it look like he was inexperienced? I think a criminal today would be capable of this move, but not Cooper. this makes it hard to come up with why Cooper did what he did. I would guess that since the  panels on the dummy chute were sewn shut for easy repacking you would think he would of caught this mistake. I really have trouble tying these suspects to the event.

Confused  8)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on March 27, 2014, 02:51:03 AM
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Interesting topic here....possible suspect

http://mynameisearl.blogspot.com/ (http://mynameisearl.blogspot.com/)

The post is dated 2011. Came out in response to the uproar with Marla's brush with fame no doubt.
I wonder if he ever followed up?
Looks like the blog hasn't been updated for a couple of years but the links are active and the CA PI license for his company is current.


I'm following up now.


New Suspect Enters Cooper World: WES NELSON
3.26.14

We have a new suspect and his name is Wes Nelson.  He's the uncle of the guy who has a blog that Shutter linked us to a page or so back.  The blogger is named Earl Door and he is a retired cop and criminal investigator for the State of California in bank frauds and white collar crime.

In some ways this feels like Marla and Uncle LD, but this time it is Earl and Uncle Wes.

Uncle Wes died a few years ago in Seattle, alone. His body was not discovered for three days. The last time Earl saw his uncle was in October 1971, as he was boarding a military transport at Travis AFB, saying he had a job up north. Afterwards, Earl's mother, Wes' sister, distanced herself from Wes and never discussed him or the astonishing resemblance to the sketch of Cooper in the papers to Uncle Wes..

Wes was a Green Beret and had three tours in Vietnam.  He also served in Korea, and was in the Merchant Marine during WWII, as he enlisted somehow when he was 14 years old.  Earl says that he was in jungle combat in Vietnam but was also a cargo kicker.

Earl estimates that Wes was about 40 years old in 1971.  He says he uncle was rather short 5'8"-5'10", but he feels his uncle is a dead ringer for the sketches.

Earl is 56 years old and is currently traveling on the road in an RV.  When he gets back home in California - Bay Area- he will provide us with more details, such as Wes' height, weight, distinguishing marks, and such.  He will also file for a DD-214 on Wes.

Earl sounds very grounded and not a whack-a-doodle.  He contacted Larry Carr, sent him Wes' pix, but he never heard back. Earl definitely sounds like someone we can work with to run this lead to ground. Earl may have Wes' DNA profile already and wants to compare it to whatever the FBI has.

Earl is seeking to be very cooperative with Seattle FO.

Shut - how can I post Wes' pix here? In the meantime, I'll send it to you in an email and you can post it.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on March 27, 2014, 07:21:41 AM
Bruce, here is the pic you requested. if I understand you correctly you are having trouble posting attachments? if so I can walk you through the process with no problem.

The photo is of Wes Nelson from 1954

Bruce, Earl would be a nice addition to this forum given his background skills. perhaps you could ask him to join in the fun with us.  8)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on March 27, 2014, 09:35:46 AM
I don't know if the is the same Wes Nelson.....


http://www.vhpamuseum.org/groups/165avngroup/165avngroup.shtml (http://www.vhpamuseum.org/groups/165avngroup/165avngroup.shtml)


Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on March 28, 2014, 03:48:52 PM
I have sent a link to these pages to Earl Door, Uncle Wes' nephew, and I've encouraged him to join this conversation.

I have a fair amount of skepticism about Uncle Wes as DB Cooper, but he seems to have some of the basic elements to be the skyjacker -  clearly a loner, lots of military time and apparent prowess, ie: Green Beret. Add it all up and it's worth a hard look.

Yes, Wes Nelson seems to be too short at 5'8", but I feel that one or two deviations from the physical profiles should not rule any suspect out. I think it is healthy to look at all of the suspects presented to us, even is we have to carry a bag of salt with us as well. At the very least we get a clearer view of the Vortex in action.

Along those lines, Sail has just emailed me on his way to Cabo (again!) saying he just met a former Boeing test pilot who worked on the 727 development program.  When Sail gets back we're all meeting for another one of Sail's famed luncheons at the Seattle Yacht Club.  Yum!  Sometimes being a reporter can be easy and fun!!!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on March 28, 2014, 07:15:15 PM
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I have sent a link to these pages to Earl Door, Uncle Wes' nephew, and I've encouraged him to join this conversation.

I have a fair amount of skepticism about Uncle Wes as DB Cooper, but he seems to have some of the basic elements to be the skyjacker -  clearly a loner, lots of military time and apparent prowess, ie: Green Beret. Add it all up and it's worth a hard look.

Yes, Wes Nelson seems to be too short at 5'8", but I feel that one or two deviations from the physical profiles should not rule any suspect out. I think it is healthy to look at all of the suspects presented to us, even is we have to carry a bag of salt with us as well. At the very least we get a clearer view of the Vortex in action.

Along those lines, Sail has just emailed me on his way to Cabo (again!) saying he just met a former Boeing test pilot who worked on the 727 development program.  When Sail gets back we're all meeting for another one of Sail's famed luncheons at the Seattle Yacht Club.  Yum!  Sometimes being a reporter can be easy and fun!!!


the problem with the height is Tina. she said she had to look up at him. this is pretty hard to get around while giving a description. I think that's the toughest one to beat if you ask me.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on March 28, 2014, 11:53:55 PM
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I have sent a link to these pages to Earl Door, Uncle Wes' nephew, and I've encouraged him to join this conversation.

I have a fair amount of skepticism about Uncle Wes as DB Cooper, but he seems to have some of the basic elements to be the skyjacker -  clearly a loner, lots of military time and apparent prowess, ie: Green Beret. Add it all up and it's worth a hard look.

Yes, Wes Nelson seems to be too short at 5'8", but I feel that one or two deviations from the physical profiles should not rule any suspect out. I think it is healthy to look at all of the suspects presented to us, even is we have to carry a bag of salt with us as well. At the very least we get a clearer view of the Vortex in action.

Along those lines, Sail has just emailed me on his way to Cabo (again!) saying he just met a former Boeing test pilot who worked on the 727 development program.  When Sail gets back we're all meeting for another one of Sail's famed luncheons at the Seattle Yacht Club.  Yum!  Sometimes being a reporter can be easy and fun!!!


the problem with the height is Tina. she said she had to look up at him. this is pretty hard to get around while giving a description. I think that's the toughest one to beat if you ask me.


Yup, the height issue is serious.  However, even if Wes Nelson is not DB Cooper, knowing more about Uncle Wes might tell us more about the use of 727s in Vietnam, how widespread was the knowledge of its jump-ability, and other tidbits that might get us closer to the skyjacker.

I think special ops and Vietnam is the best environment yet for finding DB Cooper.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on March 29, 2014, 12:01:59 AM
I agree. I don't mind looking over the suspect. it would also be nice to talk with someone who also new a suspect. that's the kind of information we need from someone on the link to the 727, and nam.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on March 29, 2014, 05:39:50 PM
Another side note:

Sail has met a 727 pilot who worked for Boeing in their testing/developmental stage of production.  We'll be having lunch together soon, and I'll file a report afterwards.

Oops, I see that I already posted this information.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on March 30, 2014, 06:57:49 PM
Earl sent me an email which outlines the major aspects of why he thinks his uncle may be DB Cooper.  Here it is:

*******************************


Wes was a Sergeant First Class.  He was  born in September of 1928.  I have a plaque that shows enlistment in 10/47 and it has 8th Army Division, 8085 O.M. CO.  Cpl on his plaque.  He died in Seattle in July of 1984.  I am not see any information on his height.  I am 5'11 and he may have been around my height, I really do not recall.  I am sure there is some documentation somewhere. 
 
He was raised in Montebello CA and was in a Masonic Home.  Family were Masons.  Some of the info I have is from documents, some from discussions with him, and some from discussions with my mom, (his big sister).  They were close as he was a little guy in an orphanage  basically.  He would sneak to visit my mom when he could.  He had two older brothers.   
 
When he as on leave he would visit us in CA.  My mom said he left and lied about his age to get into the Merchant Marines when he was 14.  He was in WW2, Korea, and three tours in Vietnam.  He is in the San Francisco National Cemetery, (C-26).  It has his special forces and three wars on his bronze plaque. He is right up front and has a great view! 
 
When he retired, he was disappointed that the war was winding down and he was leaving the military according my mom.  He visited us at that time.  He, like may other Veterans of that era, was not treated with the honor or respect that should have been afforded him.  He was thin and lean.  He did have a beady eyed stare.  He was quit and looked like he meant business when he looked at you. 
 
When he left that last time, we dropped him at the Travis Air Force Base.  It was dark and raining. He could fly on the military transports free apparently.  I asked where he was going.  He said he was headed North to do a job.  Thinking there may be opportunity for me, I asked if I could go along.  He told me he could not take me along on this one.  That was the last time I saw him. 
 
Shorty after his leaving, I saw the composite in the Chronicle Newspaper.  Now, I drew faces and things in the past.  Always pencil sketches.  I showed my mom the composite and she complimented me on the sketch of Wes.  When I told her it was a composite, and what it was for, she was visibly upset and left.  She never would tell me where Wes was and I asked many times over the years.   Until, he died.  She was heading up to Seattle to pick up his possessions and make arrangements.
 
I have watched and read over the years to see what matched and what did not.  My little brother and I worked in a Liquor Store in Fremont, (San Francisco Bay Area).  Wes would always ask what are you Door boys up to today.  We would bug him to get his coupons from his Raleigh Cigarettes.  We would bundle them with others we collected to redeem them. 
 
I know this is not a concise timeline and I know I need to chase down a DD214 to verify his training.  If the FBI has DNA, then it should be an easy match.  Wes has a son my age and his son was an infant in the photos I have.  So, 1954 or 1955 would be the year.  He married a Korean woman, Lela, a war bride.  I have never met any of his kids or his wife. 
 
From my mom and some of the stuff I have, he was Green Beret.  My mom mentioned he was angry about  being accused of dropping some supplies in the wrong place in Vietnam.  He said he was spot on with the coordinates and timing given to him.  I think this happened just before he retired out. 
 
I did have a discussion with him about the forward scouts he chose.  He said he liked young black kids from and urban environment as it was a dangerous job.  I told him I thought it was a little racist.  He fired back, with emphasis, "No, it is the best man for the job."  He explained that he would lose kids quickly in that position, but the kids from urban areas grew up looking, watching, and paying attention in their neighborhoods as part of their survival and it translated to what they were doing in the bush.  He said one of these was his scout for a full 11 months.  I did not know a tour was 11 months back then.
 
I will dust off what I have and post a pic or two.
 
I looked up the agent in charge of the matter a few years  back and sent him a email.  They may bounce gmail, who knows?  But, Larry never contacted me.  Since he was using social media to ask for info, I thought he may search social media too, so I posted to my old blog.  Bruce was the first contact from that post.  I have worked with law enforcement,(local, state, and federal), over the years and this has popped up as a topic, nobody really seemed interested.  I was a Supervising Criminal Investigator when I retired. 
 
I know how popular hijackers are now, and I don't relish the though of him  being one. But, as you know, he did not hurt anyone, and allowed the passengers off of the plane.  Not a rationalization, just an observation. 
 
There were other factors in play, when he retired, family matters.  So, I am under the impression, he was splitting whatever pension he had with his estranged wife.  She was in North Carolina. They were all being treated poorly upon their return.  Wes had a major brawl at the local bar with a group of guys who started in on him.  My mom wasn't happy about Wes using pool balls and ques on them.  But she did say they started it.
 
I will let you know when I get a DD214.  And, I will see if they are interested again.  Who knows?
 
 
 
 
 


Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on March 30, 2014, 09:16:19 PM
Nice post Bruce! I also noticed Mr. Door has joined our forum. I would like to thank him for coming here, and welcome him to join in at anytime. I hope he will give us more information in the future about Wes. it's always a challenge to search out a story.

NARA has a Wesley E Nelson
http://aad.archives.gov/aad/record-detail.jsp?dt=893&mtch=25&cat=all&tf=F&sc=24994,24995,24996,24998,24997,24993,24981,24983&q=wesley+nelson&bc=sl,fd&rpp=10&pg=1&rid=1469723&rlst=222609,429608,1469723,2040370,2223305,5481353,3623887,3842920,5457327,6361555

I believe this is his grave. see photo

Find A Grave
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=3537237
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on March 30, 2014, 09:36:36 PM

Calling Smokin99....smoke signal sent for assistance in research..... 8)

(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/dave767/smokesigs_zps6fecd2f3.gif?t=1396229756)

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on March 30, 2014, 11:03:31 PM
Interesting topic here.....

http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/npr/137883365/skyjack

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: smokin99 on April 05, 2014, 02:44:10 PM
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Interesting topic here.....

http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/npr/137883365/skyjack

And this is the kind of stuff that makes me roll my eyes...

What Gray doesn't do is write that "The pilots on Cooper's plane had the October and November 1971 issues of Playboy stashed in the cockpit, and Gray obliges with descriptions of the centerfolds".

What he does write ...and I quote...."Other than talking about sports, the custom of most airline pilots is to stash a Playboy magazine in the cockpit." Then he goes on to describe the covers of Miss October and Miss November of 1971. (Descriptions, I might add, that he got from the internet - not the flippin FBI files.) Geoffrey Gray is setting the stage for the reader - this is the crew in a cockpit making a milk run. Still, he's only making a guess here (perhaps correctly so) that MOST pilots like to look at naked women in centerfolds while they are flying. From his notes, I assume this is based on interviews with an aviation historian.

 Then again....The author of the NPR article writes..... "The live radio chatter between Cooper's hijacked flight crew and the FBI was, Gray reports, so amusing that it was piped into the cabin of another flight for the entertainment of its passengers."

Now this is what Gray actually wrote..........
"On the tarmac, on a domestic flight to Denver, pilots listen to the hijack unfold on the radio frequency. The conversation between the Northwest pilots and the FBI is so entertaining they play the radio over the cabin's intercom speakers so their passengers can follow what is happening in real time."

Personally, I think there is a lot of difference between "amusing" and "entertaining".
As for the Gray's assertion that the domestic flight to Denver listened in on the hijack - the passage is not noted and I can't find any corroboration or sources for this in Gray's notes - though he relied a lot on articles and stuff that others have written so I might have missed it.

When people wonder why some of us get anal about the minutiae of this case and separating fact from speculation, it's because every article like this that perpetuates myths just makes it that much harder to actually get at the truth. And yes, I personally think that Gray played it kind of loose in his book with some facts - I think he elaborated and made up conversations and situations to make the story read better. Literary license has it's place - though my personal preference is that true crime novels be straight up without speculation in the mix. Though....to be fair to Gray......other books written that include specifics about the actual hijacking - (Himmelsbach, Tosaw, and Rhodes/Callame come to mind) share this problem.

But in this case, the article basically completely misrepresents what Gray wrote. Oh well - it was from 2011 - I guess I can move on.  ;) ;D
 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: smokin99 on April 05, 2014, 03:01:16 PM
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Calling Smokin99....smoke signal sent for assistance in research..... 8)

(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/dave767/smokesigs_zps6fecd2f3.gif?t=1396229756)

I've got an American, Wesley Earl Nelson, 17 yr old, 5/7" and 139 lbs on a Merchant Marine ship called the Beta at age 17 as an O.S (Ordinary Seaman).
Sailing from Curacao Northwest Indies Nov 14, 1945 arriving in New York on Nov 24, 1945. Length of service at that time was 1/2 year. He was also a member of the crew on the prior voyage arriving in New York.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: smokin99 on April 05, 2014, 03:16:16 PM
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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Calling Smokin99....smoke signal sent for assistance in research..... 8)

(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/dave767/smokesigs_zps6fecd2f3.gif?t=1396229756)

I've got an American, Wesley Earl Nelson, 17 yr old, 5/7" and 139 lbs on a Merchant Marine ship called the Beta at age 17 as an O.S (Ordinary Seaman).
Sailing from Curacao Northwest Indies Nov 14, 1945 arriving in New York on Nov 24, 1945. Length of service at that time was 1/2 year. He was also a member of the crew on the prior voyage arriving in New York.

And here is Wesley Earl Nelson, 0 years of service, Messman, engaged 12/9/44 (Los Angeles) 16 yrs old, 5'8", 131 lbs, 3 inch scar on left hand, crew on the MS Cape Trafalgar from Melbourne Australia 1/5/45 to New York 3/18/45

Picture of manifests are too large to attach so if anyone wants I can email or maybe Shutter can post if I email to him. Let me know.

Also another lsting on the Beta for a December 1945 trip - same info on him as the November Beta trip.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: smokin99 on April 05, 2014, 04:59:02 PM
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Nice post Bruce! I also noticed Mr. Door has joined our forum. I would like to thank him for coming here, and welcome him to join in at anytime. I hope he will give us more information in the future about Wes. it's always a challenge to search out a story.

NARA has a Wesley E Nelson
http://aad.archives.gov/aad/record-detail.jsp?dt=893&mtch=25&cat=all&tf=F&sc=24994,24995,24996,24998,24997,24993,24981,24983&q=wesley+nelson&bc=sl,fd&rpp=10&pg=1&rid=1469723&rlst=222609,429608,1469723,2040370,2223305,5481353,3623887,3842920,5457327,6361555

I believe this is his grave. see photo

Find A Grave
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=3537237

I'm thinking the NARA record might not be him - re: the 4 years of high school and the Nebraska and Missouri references - though that's the only one I've seen so far also.
But a lot - like 80%  - of Army military records were destroyed in a fire in 1973. They've used auxiliary records to try and reconstruct service records but I don't think all of that is online.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on April 05, 2014, 05:00:16 PM
Thanks S99, good report. Anything about his tour in Viet Nam. Earl Door is on here, but hasn't made any comments.

just seen your post. I wasn't sure if that was the right guy or not. enlistment was a year off from what Mr. Door mentioned to Bruce if I'm correct.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: coopercurious on April 07, 2014, 11:48:52 AM
hi everyone,
 I'm a newbie to this forum and have been watching this case for several years ever since Ms. Cooper indicated that her uncle did this mysterious caper. I've noticed that that the suspects all seem to be from the west coast.
Has any thought ever been given that maybe it was someone from completely out of the area ? ( maybe the east coast) who just came in to do the job and leave. It just seems to me that everyone seems to be stuck on the usual suspects and the investigation makes no progress. Please don't blast me ; no disrespect meant toward all of you who have been watching\investigating this case for many years. Thanks and I enjoy reading your posts.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Robert99 on April 07, 2014, 12:06:51 PM
Welcome to the thread.

You are completely right in saying that Cooper may well not have been a native of the Northwest US.  And when Cooper's identity becomes known, it will probably be a name that has never been mentioned on this thread or any other thread.  But even then, the people pushing specific individuals as Cooper candidates will probably still keep pushing them and trying to make a buck.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on April 07, 2014, 06:49:52 PM
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hi everyone,
 I'm a newbie to this forum and have been watching this case for several years ever since Ms. Cooper indicated that her uncle did this mysterious caper. I've noticed that that the suspects all seem to be from the west coast.
Has any thought ever been given that maybe it was someone from completely out of the area ? ( maybe the east coast) who just came in to do the job and leave. It just seems to me that everyone seems to be stuck on the usual suspects and the investigation makes no progress. Please don't blast me ; no disrespect meant toward all of you who have been watching\investigating this case for many years. Thanks and I enjoy reading your posts.


Welcome, as Robert99 said, it's possible nobody has any idea who Cooper is/was. I'm sure I'll get some flak for that statement, but the wanted poster claims a possible midwest connection. lots of suspects try and follow these guidelines. Marla made to may mistakes with her statements.

I'm interested in what Coopsnoop says about his suspect. I've never really looked into him. KC, is not a contender in my opinion. lots of mistakes have been done with his case as well. he doesn't fit into the crime. I try more to find out what happened to Cooper vs who he was, or is. the flight path, and the money find seem to interest me the most. lots of guessing going on, but lots of good brains behind them. some of these guys can be pretty tough on ya, don't let it get to you though.

I just got home from a very hot aggravating day. hope this made sense  ;D

Shutter.... 8)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on April 19, 2014, 03:05:11 AM
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hi everyone,
 I'm a newbie to this forum and have been watching this case for several years ever since Ms. Cooper indicated that her uncle did this mysterious caper. I've noticed that that the suspects all seem to be from the west coast.
Has any thought ever been given that maybe it was someone from completely out of the area ? ( maybe the east coast) who just came in to do the job and leave. It just seems to me that everyone seems to be stuck on the usual suspects and the investigation makes no progress. Please don't blast me ; no disrespect meant toward all of you who have been watching\investigating this case for many years. Thanks and I enjoy reading your posts.

Blast you? Quite the opposite! Some high percentage of people in the Norwest came from somewhere else, and leave
that region regularly. Cooper's origin is a central question with threads as deep as the case itself. There just isn't a lot to go on to give direction. Even "no accent' is fraught with complications. Olive skin, dark eyes? That could fit a number of populations, from all over. The only thing we do know, I guess, is he wasn't blond and blue eyed, and didn't speak Svedaarsk.  ;)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on April 19, 2014, 04:08:06 AM
Greetings Cooper Curious -

If you would like to read a primer on DB Cooper I'm happy to send you an electronic copy of my book, DB Cooper and the FBI - A Report on the Investigation into America's Only Unsolved Skyjacking.

Send me an email at brucesmith At rainierconnect DOT com. Or check out the Cooper section at the Mountain News - WA. net
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on April 19, 2014, 06:52:40 PM
Duane Weber to Jo Weber on Duane's deathbed:   "Jo, forget the bedpan.  I can't do nothing with my damn pooper."
Jo to the World for the next 30 years:  "I know he was Dan Cooper.  He told me that while I was trying to wipe his ass."
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on April 19, 2014, 08:34:59 PM
I've grown tired of what is going on with this site. I'm considering shutting it down. nobody has posted anything of value on here in weeks. this was the main reason I didn't want to put any money into it. I considered it a test site, it is failing miserably. a pot shot here and there isn't an issue. the constant BULLSHIT I'm reading lately puts it right up there with DROPZONE!!

Is this really what Cooper is about? if it is, I don't want to be a part of it anymore. >:(
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on April 20, 2014, 01:09:01 AM
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I've grown tired of what is going on with this site. I'm considering shutting it down. nobody has posted anything of value on here in weeks. this was the main reason I didn't want to put any money into it. I considered it a test site, it is failing miserably. a pot shot here and there isn't an issue. the constant BULLSHIT I'm reading lately puts it right up there with DROPZONE!!

Is this really what Cooper is about? if it is, I don't want to be a part of it anymore. >:(

Might I suggest we stick to issues IN the Cooper case vs. extraneous issues related to suspect promoters
and personal histories related to that. We all have a history! This is a opportunity to discuss DB Cooper.
Or not. Thanks for listening.

 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on April 20, 2014, 03:40:18 AM
Please stay Shutter. I think this is a valuable place and we need you.

How about a deal - the Gossip section is for ranting and raving, and the other sections are for the focused discussions on various investigative themes that arise.

Those of us who deal with Cooper World on a daily basis need a place to let off steam.  If not here, where?
Title: Looking at Wolfgang Gossett
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on April 21, 2014, 05:11:30 PM
EVick is calling for us to take a closer look at Wolfgang Gossett, so I thought I'd start the balling rolling by posting my overview of "Wolfie," which is an excerpt from my book.

Of course, Galen is Da Man when it comes to Wolf, and I hope he will expand, develop, and clarify this primer of Gossett.


Chapter 19
The family confession of Wolfgang Gossett


Like Kenny Christiansen, another near-confession comes from the family of William “Wolfgang” Gossett, whose sons say that he confessed to being DB Cooper in the 1990s.

One of the sons, Greg Gossett, expanded upon this claim in 2009 on Coast-To-Coast radio, calling-in during a broadcast on DB Cooper that featured Cooper sleuth Galen Cook.

During the show, the younger Gossett said that his father had shown him keys to a safe deposit box in a Vancouver, BC bank where he said the $200,000 was stashed. However, the son does not know where those bank keys are presently.

Reportedly, the son made his claim about his father public in 2007.

As with all the other confessees and suspects, no one has produced any concrete evidence that links Gossett to Norjak, but the clues that do exist are tantalizing.

William “Wolfgang” Gossett was a former Marine, career Army officer, and highly skilled paratrooper. He possessed all the basic skills and physical appearances of Cooper - 5' 10", 185 pounds with brown eyes and short, dark hair parted on the left - Gossett even drank bourbon and smoked cigarettes. Oddly, when he left the Army in 1973, Gossett was stationed in Ft. Lewis, adjacent to McChord AB and just south of Sea-Tac Airport.

Further, Gossett had been stationed in Brienne la Chateau, France during the time that the Dan Cooper action comic books were available. In addition, Gossett could reportedly read and write in French.

Like Christiansen, however, Gossett is also deceased.
 
Even though Galen Cook has been a long-time Cooper investigator and has espoused others as the hijacker, these days he is primarily focused on Wolfgang as DB Cooper. Galen is writing a book on the skyjacking, but I do not know how close he is to finishing. I suspect he wants to prove Gossett is DB Cooper before he publishes.

Although Galen and I discuss Norjak copiously we do not talk much about Wolfgang and I think the reason is twofold – one, Galen is holding on to the juicy tidbits for his own book, and secondly, I’m not too ga-ga over Gossett.

In fact, I’m not too enthused over any single suspect, as my key interests are how well the FBI has investigated Norjak and the manner in which open-source sleuths are nibbling on the edges of the official investigatory enchilada. Quite frankly, I believe that when the DB Cooper case is solved and we hear Dan Cooper’s real name, we’ll say, “Who’s that?”

However, Galen has talked extensively about Gossett with a journalist named John Craig, who is published on a Yahoo “Voices” website:

http://voices.yahoo.com/1971-db-cooper-letters-linked-suspect-william-gossett-7516448.html?cat=37

As a result, much of what I know of Gossett as the skyjacker comes from Mr. Craig and his Yahoo postings. I have been unsuccessful, though, in contacting Craig to discuss his work, and to learn how sensitive he may be about having some of it discussed here. However, Galen has asked me not to interview any of Gossett’s family members, and he welcomes my use of Craig’s writing.

Hence, here is what I know of William “Wolfgang” Gossett from the Craig/Cook partnership.

Gossett was born in San Diego in 1930, making him 41 on the date of the skyjacking. While in the military he was decorated for action in Korea and Vietnam, and was a trained survivalist.

William Gossett legally changed his name to Wolfgang Gossett in the second half of his life and preferred being called “Wolf.” He died of natural causes at 73 in Oregon.

Galen has told me that the FBI has not eliminated Gossett as a potential suspect in the case, and in many important ways Galen functions as a co-investigator with the FBI on Gossett, such as providing DNA samples and analysis.

Craig says that Gossett often spoke of the DB Cooper skyjacking to his friends and family, and reportedly told one of his four (possibly five) wives that he could "write the epitaph for D.B. Cooper."

Despite his many marriages, Cook says that Wolf was known to be a loner.

At the time of the skyjacking, Gossett worked at Weber State College in Ogden, Utah as a ROTC instructor. The details of his whereabouts on that Thanksgiving holiday weekend of 1971 are inconclusive, but he was scheduled to be at work at his teaching duties. Whether he actually showed up during the holiday is unknown, however.

As for family, he had separated from his first wife and was living alone in an apartment in Ogden, Utah.

Craig also writes that Wolf told his cousin, Charles Gossett, that he knew all about DB Cooper but could not discuss it with him.

In addition, Galen has claimed that Gossett confessed to the skyjacking to a close friend who was also a retired Salt Lake City judge. Craig gives the following account of this confession:

“The judge told Galen Cook: ‘In 1977, he walked into my office and closed the door and said he thought he might be in some trouble, that he was involved in a hijacking in Portland and Seattle a few years ago and that he might have left prints behind. He said he was DB Cooper. I told him to keep his mouth shut and don't do anything stupid, and not to bring it up again.’”

Wolf’s son, Greg Gossett, initiated the contact with Galen and provided the basic information on his father. Greg claimed his father was always strapped for money and had a gambling problem. He said his father showed him wads of cash just before the Christmas of 1971, only weeks after the skyjacking, and Greg believes his father stored some of his stash in a Vancouver, British Columbia safe deposit box and may have blown much of it at Las Vegas casinos.

Similarly, on the Coast to Coast radio show on November 26, 2011 a woman claiming to be William Gossett's niece said she remembered her uncle having an unusual large amount of money during Christmas, 1971.

In the Strange Twist Department, Gossett became a private detective after his military service and specialized in money fraud, exposing cults, and finding missing people. Most notably, he was commended by the FBI for his help in rescuing a woman from the Bhagwan Rajneesh's compound in Antelope, Oregon.

However, at the same time Gossett also began hiding his identity. He changed his name to Wolfgang and began wearing a goatee and moustache. In 1988, he even became an “Antioch” priest in the Old Catholic Church, Salt Lake City Diocese.

He further obfuscated his persona by never mentioning to his fellow ROTC instructors at Weber State that he had served ten years with the Marines and that he had parachute training, accomplishments most servicemen would be proud to acknowledge. Additionally, he never wore his jump wings on his uniform. However, late in life he stitched his wings to a head band that he wore while jogging.

Most surprisingly though, during this period Wolfgang became an expert in the paranormal, and he even hosted a call-in radio show on the subject on KCGL in Bountiful, Utah.

Clyde Lewis, the current host of “Ground Zero” talk radio, says that Wolfgang Gossett was not only a skilled paranormal investigator, but also was his mentor.

“He was my Obi Wan Kenobi,” Clyde told me in 2012 at the Ariel DB Cooper festival. “Everything I know about investigating the paranormal and doing a talk radio show, I learned from Wolfgang Gossett.”

Clyde also characterizes Wolfgang as “one of the best bull-shit artists I’ve ever met,” but Clyde also told me that Gossett could be very deliberate, as his work investigating missing persons was successful.

“He was a remarkable guy,” Clyde told me.

Wolfgang was also very psychic according to Leewis, and his mentor accurately forecasted Clyde’s life-threatening illness on a Mormon missionary trip that would prove to be life-transforming.

Clyde also told me that Wolfgang had a “dark side” to his personality and could be foul-mouthed and moody, and a gambling addiction worsened latter in life.

Unknowingly, Clyde crossed paths with Wolf much later in Oregon. After they last saw each other in Utah in 1996, Gossett moved to Depoe Bay on the Oregon coast, and eventually Clyde took his radio show to Portland.

After Wolfgang’s death, Clyde searched for information on his old friend and learned that Gossett had been living in Depoe Bay and was known to the locals as a guy who could blow $500 a night in machine poker games.

“He was a bad gambler, they told me,” Clyde said, clearly saddened.

But was he a good skyjacker?









Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on April 21, 2014, 07:55:33 PM
Bruce:  When you were describing Gossett, he was too young to be DB Cooper. Was he also to short, like Kenney Christensen (5ft 8in)? These too short people are not to good as suspects and none in my mind have the knowledge of the 727 and the skydiving skills or motive of Sheridan Peterson or are 6 ft tall.
Bob Sailshaw
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on April 22, 2014, 01:07:14 AM
really nice job, Bruce.  Of course, the good stuff I'm not going to release right now.  That is confidential and closely held.  The FBI knows some of it and they aren't talking about Gossett either.  Sorry Sailshaw, but your guy was not DB Cooper.
Title: Gossett
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on April 22, 2014, 02:21:54 AM
Sail, I give you the too short, but too young?  He was 41 in 1971.

As for the skills to be DB Cooper, I guess that will have to wait for Galen's book. Knowing how to jump a 727 was highly specialized and secret, and Sheridan Peterson sure seems capable of knowing that stuff through his technical work at Boeing.

I don't think that Wolfie is the skyjacker.  As Clyde Lewis told me, "Wolfgang was the biggest bullshit artist I have ever met."
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on April 22, 2014, 10:17:26 AM
To Coopsnoop:  You say: "really nice job, Bruce.  Of course, the good stuff I'm not going to release right now.  That is confidential and closely held.  The FBI knows some of it and they aren't talking about Gossett either. Sorry Sailshaw, but your guy was not DB Cooper."

I say:  "Why do you rule out Sheridan Peterson?"  What about him does not fit, is it his "Perfect Alibi" about being in Nepal? Your answer may lead us to  possibly why the FBI ruled him out and that is why the crime is not solved in 43 years.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on April 22, 2014, 05:20:38 PM
Sailshaw, Bruce tells me that you are a really nice gentleman.  And you seem like it.  Bruce has his opinion and I respect Bruce's opinion too.  I only have this comment right now.  There was only ONE DB Cooper.  Others no longer have to be "ruled in" or "ruled-out."  There was only ONE.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on April 22, 2014, 10:59:38 PM
Coopsnoop,
Regarding Gossett -- In Geoff's book, he said that Carr was looking for DNA to match with a suspect in Utah. Was the Gossett?  There was some speculation it was McCoy.

I know you don't want to leak much, but can you answer that?  Kind of goes to how the FBI regards Gossett.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on April 23, 2014, 01:01:01 AM
Mark:

To be honest, I'm not sure who Carr was referring to. It could have been either one.  Eng has had the case longer than Carr.  Eng told me that the use of DNA "will not" solve this case.  He told me the reasons too, and they were plausible explanations.  The FBI "will not" tell me of the outcome of Gossett's prints, which I submitted in 2008.  There is a reason for this too.  Carr called me at my office in early 2008 and begged me for Gossett's prints.  I guess you can read between the lines.  But there are other ways to solve the DB Cooper case besides DNA and prints.  And the FBI continues to be interested in those other approaches.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on April 23, 2014, 10:52:07 AM
CoopSnoop:  You say: "To be honest, I'm not sure who Carr was referring to. It could have been either one.  Eng has had the case longer than Carr.  Eng told me that the use of DNA "will not" solve this case.  He told me the reasons too, and they were plausible explanations.  The FBI "will not" tell me of the outcome of Gossett's prints, which I submitted in 2008.  There is a reason for this too.  Carr called me at my office in early 2008 and begged me for Gossett's prints.  I guess you can read between the lines.  But there are other ways to solve the DB Cooper case besides DNA and prints.  And the FBI continues to be interested in those other approaches."

I say: " Why do you continue with a poor suspect (too short, etc) and not open your eyes to the "Best Suspect" (Sheridan Peterson) who fits all the requirements and worked at Boeing in the "Manual and Handbooks Group" just to find out about the 727 and how it could be juimped. He  even started the Boeing Skydiving Club and jumped at the Issaquah Sky Sports DZ and knew Earl Cossey the rigger. He even got particles on the tie he left onboard the skyjacked 727 of both types of Titanium (Pure and Alloy) from looking into the scrap bins of the lab just below his office in the 9-101 building. Boeing was the only place in the North West where both types of Titanium were being used. I know because my office was also on the second floor of the 9-101 building. I also did some work in the M & P Lab with flame spraying which was being expermited with to flame spray pure titanium on leading edges of the SST. Pure titanium had better temperature and abrasion characteristics than the aloy titanium that the SST was made. The FBI thinks they have good DNA from the tie clasp, but it is most likely from someone else (helping to put the tie on) and not DB Coopers. The real DNA that the FBI needs to look at and compare with what they have of Sheridan's is under the stamps/envelope flaps of the four letters sent to the news papers following Norjak.
You are following the wrong suspect!
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: EVickiW on April 23, 2014, 03:39:34 PM
https://plus.google.com/114596102747766314935/about

Sheridan's Google+ page. He references his "work' and his "story".   :D
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on April 23, 2014, 04:15:41 PM
Good luck with your investigation, Sailshaw.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on April 25, 2014, 10:27:19 AM
Coopsnoop   You say:  "Good luck with your investigation, Sailshaw."

I say:   "You Coopsnoop are in the best position to break the case wide open as you are on a good talking basis with the Seattle FBI office and they are presently stuck on stop. Possibly, from dunb orders from above, but it is hindering the easy solution of the DB Cooper case. If you could talk the Seattle FBI into obtaining the DNA from under the stamps/envelope flaps of the four letters that they have  that were ssent to the newspapers following Norjak, and then compare that DNA with what was obtained from Sheridan Peterson by the two female FBI agents, the case could be broken. A match would prove that Sheridan was in Portland (the scene of the crime) and not in Nepal as Sheridan's perfect alibi goes. The FBI would have Sheridan in a lie to Fed's which is a Federal Crime and that alone could be traded for a confession to the DB case. Sorry for the rambling thoughts but I think you get the idea. You could be the hero for getting the FBI moving on the case and to a quick solution.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
'

'
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on April 26, 2014, 09:19:37 PM
CoopSnoop:

The question posed by Bill Mitchell who sat in the same isle as DB, he has a Turkey Chin. So, if you look at the attached photo of Sheridan's chin you will see that he has excess skin under his chin and it laps over his shirt collar.
Title: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: EVickiW on April 30, 2014, 11:27:40 AM
This morning...MSN.com and other news sources are telling the following story about NamUs and the missing/unidentified remains.

In May 1986, loggers clear-cutting an isolated section of Portland discovered the skeletal remains of a man who had been dead for at least a half-century. Marvin Clark went missing on Halloween weekend, 1926.

My point being...skeletal remains were intact after 60 years in the Pacific Northwest. There may be hope in finding the "Cooper" remains.



Read more:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2014/04/case_of_oregon_mystery_bones_f.html#incart_m-rpt-1

In this article, my Namus liaison, Janet Franson, was quoted in the last few sentences.
"I don't like the word closure, I kind of think resolution," said Janet Franson, a regional NamUs administrator whose territory includes Oregon.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/30/investigators-seek-dna-to-close-126-oregon-missing-person-case/


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mystery-oregon-corpse-could-be-oldest-missing-man-marvin-clark-n93241
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on April 30, 2014, 04:54:46 PM
Vickie:
You Say:     "My point being...skeletal remains were intact after 60 years in the Pacific Northwest. There may be hope in finding the "Cooper" remains."

I Say:   "Too bad you would like to think that DB died in the jump. Actually, my suspect Sheridan Peterson made it safely as he was a Skydiving Instructor/ Smoke Jumper  with years of experience and ability to survive and walk out from anywhere. He is alive and living in California today and almost 90 years old. Hopefully, he will write part 2 of his book and it will tell us how it was done. Note that none of the other skydivers from skyjacked planes died in the jump as it was a cake-walk for an experienced skydiver."

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: EVickiW on April 30, 2014, 05:02:32 PM
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Vickie:
You Say:     "My point being...skeletal remains were intact after 60 years in the Pacific Northwest. There may be hope in finding the "Cooper" remains."

I Say:   "Too bad you would like to think that DB died in the jump. Actually, my suspect Sheridan Peterson made it safely as he was a Skydiving Instructor/ Smoke Jumper  with years of experience and ability to survive and walk out from anywhere. He is alive and living in California today and almost 90 years old. Hopefully, he will write part 2 of his book and it will tell us how it was done. Note that none of the other skydivers from skyjacked planes died in the jump as it was a cake-walk for an experienced skydiver."

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com

Bob,

I understand that you believe Sheridan Peterson was the hijacker. However, until the case is solved, Cooper either lived or he died. Why not explore all the possibilities? 

Vicki
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on April 30, 2014, 05:13:00 PM
I don't think it's that hard to go missing after all these years. based on such a large area of where "they think" he jumped, anything is possible at this point. Amazon likes to believe that every inch of Washington has been hiked. If he landed in brush away from the search area. there is no telling what happened from that point on. the further the time frame goes on the jump time. the closer the water hazards appear.

I want to believe he made it, but I just don't think he did. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen anything convince me of anything different. circumstantial evidence can't bring the dead back.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on April 30, 2014, 07:28:32 PM
(http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles2/a98735_dead-undiscovered_1-front-tv.jpg)

The remains of a woman were found sitting in front of her TV - 42 years after she was reported missing. Hedviga Golik, who was born in 1924, had apparently made herself a cup of tea before sitting in her favorite armchair in front of her black and white television set. Croatian police said that she was last seen by neighbors in 1966, when she would have been 42 years old. Her neighbors thought she had moved out of her flat in Zagreb.

However, she was found by police and bailiffs when they broke in to help the authorities establish who owned the flat. When officers went there, they said it was like stepping into a place frozen in time. The cup from which she had been drinking tea was still on a table next to the chair where she had been sitting, and the house was full of things no one had seen for a long time. Nothing had been disturbed for decades, although there were more than a few cobwebs in there.

Despite numerous actions by tenants, who noticed that nobody had been using the flat since 1970, as well as those by city services, which requested that the apartment be broken into and examined, nobody reacted to their pleas for nearly four decades

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on April 30, 2014, 09:38:37 PM
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Vickie:
You Say:     "My point being...skeletal remains were intact after 60 years in the Pacific Northwest. There may be hope in finding the "Cooper" remains."

I Say:   "Too bad you would like to think that DB died in the jump. Actually, my suspect Sheridan Peterson made it safely as he was a Skydiving Instructor/ Smoke Jumper  with years of experience and ability to survive and walk out from anywhere. He is alive and living in California today and almost 90 years old. Hopefully, he will write part 2 of his book and it will tell us how it was done. Note that none of the other skydivers from skyjacked planes died in the jump as it was a cake-walk for an experienced skydiver."

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com

One thing to remember, Sailshaw.  Maybe Sheridan wanted to hijack and plane and jump. Maybe he planned on doing one.

However, that doesn't mean he did this one.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on May 01, 2014, 12:50:53 AM
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Vickie:
You Say:     "My point being...skeletal remains were intact after 60 years in the Pacific Northwest. There may be hope in finding the "Cooper" remains."

I Say:   "Too bad you would like to think that DB died in the jump. Actually, my suspect Sheridan Peterson made it safely as he was a Skydiving Instructor/ Smoke Jumper  with years of experience and ability to survive and walk out from anywhere. He is alive and living in California today and almost 90 years old. Hopefully, he will write part 2 of his book and it will tell us how it was done. Note that none of the other skydivers from skyjacked planes died in the jump as it was a cake-walk for an experienced skydiver."

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com

Sail, have you made any recent attempt to communicate with Pete?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on May 01, 2014, 10:11:36 AM
Goerger  you say:  "Sail, have you made any recent attempt to communicate with Pete?"

I say:  "My last communication with Sheridan ended with him saying " Get the Fxxx off my back" and my saying  " That is not me on your back but is your nurse just trying to give you a back rub".

Since then I have left him alone but he knows that I know a lot about him and that he did the "job" and it was not a big deal as he researched it for a long time (at least 10 years that I know about). He even has a connection to his buddy Earl Cossey that he got to know at Issaquah Skydiving Sports. Sharidon was the President of the Boeing Skydiving Club at the time and they used Issaquah as their DZ. This relationship with Cossey might have developed into a partnership for Cossey to be the ground/pickup man for Norjak and the launder of the loot through the many Cassino's that Cossey frequently visited. Probsbly Cossey was the investor of the loot and sent Sharidan money on request in laundered funds. Was Sharidon involved with the death of Cossey? It is a possibility and the Sheriff has the information that Sharidon may have been involved and his DNA is on file with the FBI. Did they have a fight when the money was all used up? Sharidon has stated that he is recovering from being beat up, Is it related to Cossey's final battle with him. Sharidon is a tough old Marine and has been a fighter all his life including his time in a "Home for the Boys" and his Dad beating him unconscious several times.  My hope is that he writes part 2 of his book to tell how DB Cooper did the Norjak Job and evaded the FBI smart guys for over 40 years. Part 1 of his book could be sub-titled "The Grudge" and Part 2 "The Revenge".

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on May 01, 2014, 10:43:06 AM
MarkBennett:  You say:  "One thing to remember, Sailshaw.  Maybe Sheridan wanted to hijack and plane and jump. Maybe he planned on doing one.
However, that doesn't mean he did this one."

I say:  "You have to remember that the TIE left on the plane had both types of Titanium (pure and alloy) fragments and that was like an address to where Sheridan Peterson worked at Boeing in the "Manual and Handbooks Group". Sharidon's office was on the 2nd floor of the 9-101 building and located just over the Materials and Processes Lab on the first floor. Sheridan had to pass by the scrap tub skids in the hallways on two sides of the M&P Lab at least 3 to 4 times a day. He would have looked into the tub skids (as I often did) to look at the neat stuff there and would have got the particles of both types of Titanium on his tie as it would have dropped into the tub skid when he bent over to look. Boeing was the only place in the North West to have both types of Titanium, so the particles on the tie were like an address to where DB/Sheridan worked. That ties him to the Norjak caper and that he did the job. Sorry if I am repeating myself but I believe it answers your question.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 01, 2014, 12:59:01 PM
How do we know Cooper didn't buy that tie a day prior to the crime? I haven't seen any pics from any of the suspects showing them wearing a clip on tie. I'm not saying it's not possible, but the questions remains.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Robert99 on May 01, 2014, 01:06:24 PM
Shutter is right.  In the 1960s and early 1970s, I saw clip on ties in drug stores selling for a couple of bucks.  Cooper could have bought it on his way to the airport.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 01, 2014, 01:32:36 PM
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Shutter is right.  In the 1960s and early 1970s, I saw clip on ties in drug stores selling for a couple of bucks.  Cooper could have bought it on his way to the airport.

Or, a second hand store. I'm sure he realized it would of blown off when he left the plane. the tie clip was widely manufactured by multiple companies. the tie was obviously used since it had evidence of a tie tack being used at one point. the clip was nice, but cheap. I have one. it's considered NOS, new old stock. the clip bends when you try to put it on, you have to be careful when putting it on. the clip Cooper had shows the same problem.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on May 01, 2014, 02:36:14 PM
Sail, you've said a couple of times that the tie had two forms of titanium.  I thought it had been resolved by Tom Kaye that there was only one, pure Ti, which you said was used at Boeing as paint in the finish of the SST wings.

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 01, 2014, 04:12:58 PM
"One thing to remember, Sailshaw.  Maybe Sheridan wanted to hijack and plane and jump. Maybe he planned on doing one.

However, that doesn't mean he did this one."

another possibility could be that Sheridan knows who did it, or possibly orchestrated the plan? why does it HAVE to be him that did it?

Just a thought.  8)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on May 01, 2014, 05:17:59 PM
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"One thing to remember, Sailshaw.  Maybe Sheridan wanted to hijack and plane and jump. Maybe he planned on doing one.

However, that doesn't mean he did this one."

another possibility could be that Sheridan knows who did it, or possibly orchestrated the plan? why does it HAVE to be him that did it?

Just a thought.  8)

Or, that he was just one of a number of people researching opportunities to jump jets, because of the opportunity the new 727 rear stair jets provided.

At length he did cooperate fully and gave dna to compare with the alleged Cooper specimen, and seems to have distanced himself from Cooper speculation since?

We dont have any of the evidence to examine in any event, so we can only speculate and wait for something ... ?

 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on May 02, 2014, 10:21:38 AM
BruceSmith   You say:    "Sail, you've said a couple of times that the tie had two forms of titanium.  I thought it had been resolved by Tom Kaye that there was only one, pure Ti, which you said was used at Boeing as paint in the finish of the SST wings."

I say:    "The only thing Tom Kaye did was to make a wild and very bad guess that Boeing only used alloy titanium and the pure titanium found on the tie ruled out Boeing. Contrary to Tom's wild guess, the two types (Pure and Alloy) made Boeing the only source of both types in the North West at that time using both and in fact pointed to the 9-101 building at Boeing where the Manufacturing and Processing Lab was located on the main floor and Sheridan's office was directly above on the 2nd floor. The pure titanium was being expermited with in the lab to flame spray the leading edges of the SST airplane wings and tails as it was better than the alloy for abrasion and higher temperature characteristics. When I mentioned this fact to Tom Kaye, he just blew it off and did not want to talk about it. The two types of titanium found on the tie were like an address to the 9-101 bldg and the same location where Sheridan worked. The clip on tie was most likely the everyday work tie as it looks like the tie in the Boeing News photo was not a clip on but looked just like the same stile (narrow black tie). Why did he leave it on the airplane? It would have blown away in the jump and provided a "Have Gun Will Travel" style calling card for the FBI to find."

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
























Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on May 02, 2014, 10:36:02 AM
Georger 

You say:  "We dont have any of the evidence to examine in any event, so we can only speculate and wait for something ... ?"

I say:   "We do have the DNA from under the stamps and envelope flaps of the four letters written to the newspapers just after Norjak. The FBI can compare that DNA with what they have of Sheridan's and a match will prove he was in Portland (the scene of the crime) and not in Nepal as he told the FBI (that is a lie and punishment is jail time). Why won't the FBI examine the four letters they have for DNA?  Because the FBI has decided that the phony conclusion of Earl Cossey that DB died in the jump is true and they are sticking to that story. Cossey could of been Sheridan's partner and groundman/money launder. That would explain the many bad statements by Cossey to through the FBI off of Sheridan's track.  So, we do have evidence to examine (the four envelopes) and need to quickly solve this case."

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on May 02, 2014, 04:52:21 PM
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Georger 

You say:  "We dont have any of the evidence to examine in any event, so we can only speculate and wait for something ... ?"

I say:   "We do have the DNA from under the stamps and envelope flaps of the four letters written to the newspapers just after Norjak. The FBI can compare that DNA with what they have of Sheridan's and a match will prove he was in Portland (the scene of the crime) and not in Nepal as he told the FBI (that is a lie and punishment is jail time). Why won't the FBI examine the four letters they have for DNA?  Because the FBI has decided that the phony conclusion of Earl Cossey that DB died in the jump is true and they are sticking to that story. Cossey could of been Sheridan's partner and groundman/money launder. That would explain the many bad statements by Cossey to through the FBI off of Sheridan's track.  So, we do have evidence to examine (the four envelopes) and need to quickly solve this case."

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com

agree - evidence would exist if the stamps were examined for dna. Likewise the metal fragment Tom has but he may
not be willing to give it up for examination? Who owns the particles Tom has? I think your Ti remarks are worth
further research (for sure). I am just not convinced the FBI is going to do anything.

 


 
Title: Titanium and the Tie
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on May 02, 2014, 10:19:04 PM
Bruce says:    "Sail, you've said a couple of times that the tie had two forms of titanium.  I thought it had been resolved by Tom Kaye that there was only one, pure Ti, which you said was used at Boeing as paint in the finish of the SST wings."

Sail says:    "The only thing Tom Kaye did was to make a wild and very bad guess that Boeing only used alloy titanium and the pure titanium found on the tie ruled out Boeing...."


Bruce responds:
Sail, your perspective on Tom's findings are in complete opposition to what I heard from Tom at the Portland Symposium in 2011.  Then, Tom specifically said that the titanium the CS found on the tie was  pure Ti, and that the public announcement that the tie contained titanium alloy was presented exclusively by Geoffrey and was wholly in error.

Further, Tom told me that how this happened was that the early test indications from the CS found spectrographic evidence that could have been Ti alloy, and Geoffrey "jumped the gun" with his announcement.  However, Tom told me that these false indications were most likely due to chlorine and sulfur residues left on the tie by match-cigarette particles.  The CS later proved definitively that the Ti shards were pure Ti, but the alloy angle stayed in the Cooper lore thanks to Geoffrey.
Title: Re: Titanium and the Tie
Post by: georger on May 02, 2014, 11:15:42 PM
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Bruce says:    "Sail, you've said a couple of times that the tie had two forms of titanium.  I thought it had been resolved by Tom Kaye that there was only one, pure Ti, which you said was used at Boeing as paint in the finish of the SST wings."

Sail says:    "The only thing Tom Kaye did was to make a wild and very bad guess that Boeing only used alloy titanium and the pure titanium found on the tie ruled out Boeing...."


Bruce responds:
Sail, your perspective on Tom's findings are in complete opposition to what I heard from Tom at the Portland Symposium in 2011.  Then, Tom specifically said that the titanium the CS found on the tie was  pure Ti, and that the public announcement that the tie contained titanium alloy was presented exclusively by Geoffrey and was wholly in error.

Further, Tom told me that how this happened was that the early test indications from the CS found spectrographic evidence that could have been Ti alloy, and Geoffrey "jumped the gun" with his announcement.  However, Tom told me that these false indications were most likely due to chlorine and sulfur residues left on the tie by match-cigarette particles.  The CS later proved definitively that the Ti shards were pure Ti, but the alloy angle stayed in the Cooper lore thanks to Geoffrey.

I think that's correct. Geoff made several other errors, jumping the gun. He stated there were 'two types of silver in/on the money'. There was only one type related to silver nitrate testing (for finger prints) the FBI did.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: smokin99 on May 03, 2014, 01:38:18 AM
In 1971, The University of Washington, in conjunction with Pacific Northwest Laboratories at Battelle Memorial Institute, Richland, Washington received a grant for $266,000 to continue their project in developing Void Metal Composite (VMC). Used with artificial implants to help bind the implant to tissue/ bone). This project utilized pure titanium and stainless steel, among other metals. Other particles found on the tie are also accounted for in literature referencing the development of VMC. Not saying there's a connection with Cooper, just one more possibility.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on May 03, 2014, 02:45:54 AM
Georger
Bruce says: "Further, Tom told me that how this happened was that the early test indications from the CS found spectrographic evidence that could have been Ti alloy, and Geoffrey "jumped the gun" with his announcement.  However, Tom told me that these false indications were most likely due to chlorine and sulfur residues left on the tie by match-cigarette particles.  The CS later proved definitively that the Ti shards were pure Ti, but the alloy angle stayed in the Cooper lore thanks to Geoffrey."

I say:  "When I talked with Tom Kaye at the Burke Museum there was no question that Tom was telling me that they had found both Titanium alloy and pure Titanium fragments on the tie (along with a curlycue of aluminum). Also he said that he had ruled out Boeing because he did not think Boeing was using pure Titanium and the SST was made only of alloy Titanium. When I told Tom about the use of pure Titanium at Boeing, he blew that away and did not want to talk further about it (he was obviously embarrassed). I don't know why everyone is so intent about not excepting the information I am fully knowledgable about. It dose not matter what Geoffery thought, my knowledge is totally independent of him."

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on May 03, 2014, 04:35:17 AM
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Georger
Bruce says: "Further, Tom told me that how this happened was that the early test indications from the CS found spectrographic evidence that could have been Ti alloy, and Geoffrey "jumped the gun" with his announcement.  However, Tom told me that these false indications were most likely due to chlorine and sulfur residues left on the tie by match-cigarette particles.  The CS later proved definitively that the Ti shards were pure Ti, but the alloy angle stayed in the Cooper lore thanks to Geoffrey."

I say:  "When I talked with Tom Kaye at the Burke Museum there was no question that Tom was telling me that they had found both Titanium alloy and pure Titanium fragments on the tie (along with a curlycue of aluminum). Also he said that he had ruled out Boeing because he did not think Boeing was using pure Titanium and the SST was made only of alloy Titanium. When I told Tom about the use of pure Titanium at Boeing, he blew that away and did not want to talk further about it (he was obviously embarrassed). I don't know why everyone is so intent about not excepting the information I am fully knowledgable about. It dose not matter what Geoffery thought, my knowledge is totally independent of him."

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com

Bob I understand your position completely. For one thing you worked there. This could be resolved with some
records if they are available?

Tom says on his site: '
Fact: All titanium used in aircraft is alloyed and the Cooper material was pure titanium.
Interpretation: Due to the lack of alloyed titanium, Cooper did not work in the aircraft industry.'

'Fact: Spiral chips of aluminum and other exotic metals like bismuth and stainless steel were found on the tie.'
Interpretation: Cooper worked in or had access to, an exotic metal fabrication facility that contained titanium, aluminum and other specialty metals.'

Tom shows photos of the following pieces on his website:

Fig. 5 Titanium piece with embedded stainless steel particle at top. The color coding is green for titanium and red for iron. (Length = 0.43mm)

Fig. 3 Titanium particle referred to as the 'bird bath.' (Length = 35 microns) .... particle form is rosette or splatter droplet?

Fig. 1 Microscopic bar of titanium metal found on Cooper's tie. Inset shows elemental signature via x-ray spectroscopy. (Length = 60 microns)

So three distinct forms of Ti were found if one takes these photos at face value?


Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on May 03, 2014, 06:13:43 PM
Okay, Sail, if Tom Kaye told you directly that the tie had two forms of titanium on it - pure and alloy - I accept that.

I had originally assumed you were suffering from an episode of Cooper Vortex memory confusion.

As for what was actually on the tie, oh well.  One, two or three forms of Ti?  Gawd Almighty.  Norjak is a trip and a half.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on May 03, 2014, 11:43:14 PM
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Okay, Sail, if Tom Kaye told you directly that the tie had two forms of titanium on it - pure and alloy - I accept that.

I had originally assumed you were suffering from an episode of Cooper Vortex memory confusion.

As for what was actually on the tie, oh well.  One, two or three forms of Ti?  Gawd Almighty.  Norjak is a trip and a half.

What may be as important as, or more important, than Ti and/or alloy of, is the "form". See Tom's photos. One looks almost machined, one looks like a splatter?, and the other ?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on May 04, 2014, 06:30:59 PM
What do you really make of it, Georger?  Pure, alloy and splatter?  What does Tom say?  This is really out of my league until I become an expert in metallurgy.
Title: Duane Weber's confession
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on May 04, 2014, 06:44:08 PM
Jerry Thomas called me out of the blue a couple of days ago to talk about Jo Weber and Duane's alleged confession.  He told me in no-uncertain-terms that everything that Ms. Weber has said about Duane is contrived and not true.  Jerry told me that there was no confession from Duane, and that Jo has only been looking for fame and fortune since the get-go in 1995.

I had never heard Jerry speak so definitively about Jo and Duane's alleged confession; here is a short sample of my notes of our conversation:

***********************

Jerry Thomas called me today to discuss Jo Weber. Jerry told me that he knew the Duane Weber–as–DB Cooper story, as told by Jo, is a “complete fabrication.”

He said he knew this because Jo had called him in 1995 asking for help in developing her story into a book.

“She needed help in getting a book deal and organizing her story,” Jerry told me. “So, I went down there to visit with her and see what was up.”

Jerry said he visited with Jo for a period of time, and Jerry also interviewed the nurse on duty at Duane’s hospital during the time Jo says Duane admitted to being Dan Cooper. Jerry told me that the nurse did hear Duane talk about DB Cooper, but claims he only muttered that he knew who the skyjacker was.

“Jo’s story is 100% bullshit. It’s all made up, just to get a book deal or a movie deal.  That’s been her agenda since Day One,” Jerry said.

Jerry also said that he has no knowledge - nor any participation – in Galen’s alleged effort to initiate some kind of legal restraints against Jo Weber.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 04, 2014, 06:58:27 PM
Those are pretty powerful allegations. I've seen Jerry in the past saying most of this on DZ (years back) how can we verify something like this?
Title: Duane Weber's confession
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on May 04, 2014, 07:23:48 PM
Yup, verifying JT's comments are the next order of business, but it jives with my increasing distrust of Ms. Weber, who has lied to me on multiple occasions. 

The most notable deception is the story line that she never had heard of DB Cooper when Duane confessed to being "Dan Cooper" in 1995.  Yet, Jo also tells the story of having a discussion with Duane in the woods north of Lake Camas in 1979, when Duane said it was where DB Cooper emerged from the forest after the skyjacking, and Jo asked him, "How do you know?"

"Maybe I was his ground man," Duane replied, according to numerous accounts Jo has given to me over the phone.

When  I challenged Jo on the dichotomy of her narrative, she backtracked artfully. Her squirming indicated to me that she was a skilled sociopath who was used to lying and talking her way out of a jam. I began to think that she wore the pants in that family, not Duane.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 04, 2014, 07:26:14 PM
she has admitted to this story. she also was taken by McCoy's house as well by Duane.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on May 04, 2014, 08:30:26 PM
Bruce:

Yeah, I got this from JT too.  But I already knew about it from Tosaw years earlier.   Tosaw had notified the Seattle FO way back when and told them to disregard anything Jo Weber spouted off.  Tosaw already knew she was a nutcase, and apparently told this to Ralph Himmelsbach in conversation.  This must be how Jerry Thomas eventually found out about Jo Weber being a rank liar.  Tosaw told me about Weber too, and all of her made-up crap about Duane Weber as DBC, unfortunately...........Jo had started calling me before Tosaw warned me off about her.  Jo is a real basket case, and that seems to be coming from JT, Tosaw, Himmelsbach and now,  the Seattle FO.  I guess next on the list is Mr. Blevins.  No wonder this case doesn't get solved.  It takes years just to eliminate the crackpots.  :).
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on May 04, 2014, 09:00:51 PM
I'm not really comfortable with challenging Jo's story in this forum, when she is not allowed on here to defend herself.

Her story, as I recall it, is Jo knew who DB Cooper was.  She didn't know who Dan Coooooooper was.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 04, 2014, 09:28:31 PM
Until there is any verification on any of this about Jo, or any other poster who can not respond to the allegations. it needs to cease. In Coops defense he can't respond on DZ, so it gets complicated. things are being said about him on there. I can't control that, but I can here. Coop as you can see, not everyone wants to read things like this.

If you have proof, that's one thing, but the name calling etc. is out of the guidelines of this forum. no more warnings......




Title: Duane Weber's alleged confession
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on May 04, 2014, 11:02:10 PM
Shut, I appreciate your concerns and I acknowledge Mark's discomfort, but it leaves us hanging.  How do we discuss the featured confession of the 922 emanating from the Cooper Vortex? Duane, "no 'w' and no 'y'" Weber is written about extensively.  Do we avoid him because his widow has a penchant for character-assassination and lengthy missives that obfuscate the discussion, causing her to be unwelcome here while several of us here are banned from the DZ for our reactive animosities?

The only confession that I'm aware of that seems to be presented in a fair and legitimate fashion is the Barb Dayton confession as described by Ron and Pat Forman.  All the others seem bogus and driven by a hunger for fame and glory, such as KC, DW, LD, etc.  I also doubt Wolfgang Gossett's family group confession because Wolfie is such a flamboyant showman and tall-tale-teller. Yes, Galen is no slouch investigator and the FBI has yet to rule out the wolfman, but....

...the whirlwinds of confessional discourse continue. Why so many?  Is there anything to be learned in their analysis? What does it say about the person who receives the confession?

I agree, name calling and provocative attributes, such as "nutcase," are excessive in my opinion, but fair commentary on the obvious is acceptable to me.

Further, I posted my note on Jerry Thomas because I was impressed by his heretofore unprecedented, in my experience, characterization of Jo's claims, and the fact that he said he had interviewed the nurse who heard Duane's comments about DB Cooper, which directly dispute Jo's claim of receiving a personal confession to the skyjacking.

As for not giving Jo a fair chance to tell her side of the story, well, that's just the way it is, just as I have to suck up her strident calls at the DZ to have me tortured and sexually mutilated.

Speaking of which, I drove past the Auburn, WA police department HQ the other day on my way home from a Gastro doc medical appointment.  I thought I'd stop in and see if my pix was posted anywhere, but I decided to skip it. Besides, what's the worst that could happen? - I'd get free meals for a few weeks, courtesy of the good people of Auburn?  That could be Chapter 27!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on May 04, 2014, 11:25:54 PM
If you want to do that, make a separate category for each of the major suspects.   Make a Duane Weber category and allow Jo to respond there.

One of the problems on the other site is much of the conversation is attacking people and their motivations for advancing their suspects.  I hope we can discuss the pros and cons of their arguments, not the presenters.

I understand a few people aren't allowed to post on the other site, so that can't respond to unfair criticism, but that's why we don't let those critics post here.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 04, 2014, 11:26:32 PM
"I agree, name calling and provocative attributes, such as "nutcase," are excessive in my opinion, but fair commentary on the obvious is acceptable to me."

people got on my case about the word "liar" I toned it down by using deception. there are ways to still express your thoughts without resorting to insults. I realize that Jo can get nasty as well, but she has the option to counter on DZ. two of them are speaking of Galen on there and it makes it hard not to allow it here. I have to allow a certain amount of steam to blow, so to speak, but Mark is not the only one who has brought this to my attention.

Try and release the steam a little slower, and with less insults. I think that's fair?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 04, 2014, 11:31:25 PM
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If you want to do that, make a separate category for each of the major suspects.   Make a Duane Weber category and allow Jo to respond there.

One of the problems on the other site is much of the conversation is attacking people and their motivations for advancing their suspects.  I hope we can discuss the pros and cons of their arguments, not the presenters.

I understand a few people aren't allowed to post on the other site, so that can't respond to unfair criticism, but that's why we don't let those critics post here.

I offered Jo a spot on here not long after she made her post here. she never responded to it. she gets frustrated quickly. the whole Jo/Blevins thing is a never ending story. it really needs to stay on DZ.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 05, 2014, 12:02:49 AM
one advantage we do have is categories. Bruce was speaking of Duane's confession. it's in the right category, but the insults took over the comment. I can't censor everything said. we have a gossip thread, but one must take a risk whether to open it, or not. I have to come to a decision on what is fair. I'm to tired to come to a conclusion tonite.

Bruce, Coop, let's get the site moved, and discuss "fairness" once we are settled into the new home. the insults will stop no matter what. that needs to stay on DZ. several people can stop one thread. I'm not going to let it happen here. what ever "new rule" follows this, and ends up being breached. the vacations begin. it will be a surgical strike

POOF, as they say!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on May 05, 2014, 10:32:48 AM
Bruce  You say:
"Okay, Sail, if Tom Kaye told you directly that the tie had two forms of titanium on it - pure and alloy - I accept that.
I had originally assumed you were suffering from an episode of Cooper Vortex memory confusion.
As for what was actually on the tie, oh well.  One, two or three forms of Ti?  Gawd Almighty.  Norjak is a trip and a half."

I say:
Tom and I were talking about both types of Titanium (pure and alloy) but evidently the sleuths only found pure Titanium on the tie. Tom jumped to the conclusion that it was not from Boeing as he guessed that Boeing was using only alloy Titanium. So, let me be clear about this. If the tie had only pure Titanium on it then it tells me it came from the M&P lab in the 9-101 building at Boeing and just under Sheridan Peterson's office in the same building. The pure Titanium is like an address to the 9-101 building and Sheridan.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on May 05, 2014, 08:41:53 PM
Tosaw wasn't lying about Jo Weber.  He meant every word of it.  Btw Shutter, those were Tosaw's words, not mine.  Bruce should get Jerry Thomas to weigh-in on this site about Weber.  I met with JT in Oregon last summer and he had not one decent word to say about Jo.  So,  ....just cause Jo says it on the other site, doesn't make it true.  Maybe just the opposite.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on May 06, 2014, 12:38:30 AM
I've given JT this address twice, and encouraged him to join the party at Shutter's Place.  Not sure why he hasn't.

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on May 06, 2014, 12:42:24 AM
Shut - sure, move the site first.  Then we'll figure out how to discuss nasty people, or not.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on May 06, 2014, 02:49:16 AM
Jerry T. assured me last summer that Jo was an extremely abusive person.  We sort of compared notes about her, but Jerry did most of the talking.  She threatens everybody.  Tosaw had nothing to do with the woman.  Jo claims mountains of e-mails that Cook sent her.  Bulls**t!  If there are any mts. of documents, its all the phone recordings Cook has kept over the years of Jo calling in the middle of the night, ranting about how Cook needs to help her solve the DBC case.  Really?  Cook is going to work for Jo?   Jo has called Cook and left messages as late as a few months ago.  As for Tina Mucklow, Jo never met or talked with Tina.  That was all set up by others....using a different lady to speak with Jo, who only thought she was talking to Tina.  Found this out during my investigation.  The only non-LEO's on this case who have actually met with Tina are Tosaw, Cook, and Smith.  Himmelsbach, Carr, Eng, and others never met nor talked with Tina.   If Jo knew where and how to meet Tina, she would have tried to do it in 2010 when she came to WA state for few short days.  Bruce met her personally and wasn't too impressed with her.  Luckily, Jo was too busy to meet with Cook.  And that was a good thing.  :)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 06, 2014, 07:05:09 AM
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I've given JT this address twice, and encouraged him to join the party at Shutter's Place.  Not sure why he hasn't.

JT signed on at the start of the thread. he said he would check in from time to time. "Thanks Shutter, I'll just pop in every so often to see how every one is doing."
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 10, 2014, 02:57:59 PM
ok, lets look at any possible reason KC could be Cooper, is it even possible?

1) we have zero proof about any valuable coin/stamp collection
2) we don't have any conclusive proof where he was November 24, 1971
3) we now know he didn't pay anywhere close to the amount in cash for his home, in fact it was paid off 17 years later.
4) we have zero proof of a hiding spot in the attic. it doesn't make sense that the last know surface (formica) was on a piece of wood in the attic years later.
5) we have conflicting stories about 20's being found on the property.
6) I failed to find any articles asking about the money find in the Bonney Lake newspapers.
7) we were able to find reason why he had so much money towards the end of his life. someone claims no reason for it?
8] none of the people claiming they think he was Cooper has come forward to help resolve this crime.
9) I find it strange the brother (Lyle) couldn't put this together in 1971, but seemed to fit it all in place after watching one show?
10) I believe since Kenny flew oversea's it very possible he got expensive items cheap, and brought them back.
11) Kenny lacks many physical features, eye color, height, head is more oval shaped, bald, light skinned, ears stick out.
12) his picture has been in the public eye for many years now, and yet Flo, who also raised a brow at LD was interested. nobody else.
13) it's the biggest set of coincidences in frickin' history.? on what? several people saying he might be Cooper?
14) the pic below shows KC (supposedly)  top third photo months after the crime. note how large his face is.

I'm sure I left things out,but remember, we are discussing the evidence! not who has produced it.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 10, 2014, 07:59:50 PM
http://www.katu.com/news/local/126750173.html?tab=video&c=y
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on May 10, 2014, 11:57:24 PM
How about the fact that Kenny continued to work for NWA for many years after the hijacking? I know Blevins says that doesn't mean much, but if he had quit his job soon after the hijacking, we'd certainly be hearing that as evidence of his guilt. The fact that he worked there for so long, to me, is just more evidence that he was not involved.

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 11, 2014, 12:01:04 AM
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How about the fact that Kenny continued to work for NWA for many years after the hijacking? I know Blevins says that doesn't mean much, but if he had quit his job soon after the hijacking, we'd certainly be hearing that as evidence of his guilt. The fact that he worked there for so long, to me, is just more evidence that he was not involved.


Yep, and what exactly is "the biggest set of coincidences in frickin' history" ? I fail to see this massive amount of "coincidences" ??????
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on May 11, 2014, 04:57:45 PM
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How about the fact that Kenny continued to work for NWA for many years after the hijacking? I know Blevins says that doesn't mean much, but if he had quit his job soon after the hijacking, we'd certainly be hearing that as evidence of his guilt. The fact that he worked there for so long, to me, is just more evidence that he was not involved.

Right....and if everything Blevins says is true, there still is nothing that ties Kenny to the flight.  And, nobody (other than his brother) will even come out and suggest he is.  There just doesn't seem to be any "there" there.


Yep, and what exactly is "the biggest set of coincidences in frickin' history" ? I fail to see this massive amount of "coincidences" ??????
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 11, 2014, 05:22:41 PM
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How about the fact that Kenny continued to work for NWA for many years after the hijacking? I know Blevins says that doesn't mean much, but if he had quit his job soon after the hijacking, we'd certainly be hearing that as evidence of his guilt. The fact that he worked there for so long, to me, is just more evidence that he was not involved.

Right....and if everything Blevins says is true, there still is nothing that ties Kenny to the flight.  And, nobody (other than his brother) will even come out and suggest he is.  There just doesn't seem to be any "there" there.


Yep, and what exactly is "the biggest set of coincidences in frickin' history" ? I fail to see this massive amount of "coincidences" ??????


The fact of none of them coming forward helping Lyle out is a red flag.  we have conflicting stories, improper investigating, or lack of one. it all boils down to people concluding the guilt. nobody has any proof Cooper was from Washington. criminals case the area prior to a crime. I'm not saying he can't be from Wa. but if we are to use that as a coincidence then that goes out the window. KC being a paratrooper. that's not a coincidence either. the landing zone. no coincidence there either. we have no proof he intended to land in that area. you can't put KC beside the photo, and then claim eyewitness descriptions are usually off?

I don't put a lot of weight in the passengers. they had no reason to recall him. that's why you get different views of Cooper. the bottom line is Tina had to look up at Cooper. she is 5' 8". that should rule out anyone at, or below 5' 8". I think even an inch taller would be questionable.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on May 11, 2014, 05:30:12 PM
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How about the fact that Kenny continued to work for NWA for many years after the hijacking? I know Blevins says that doesn't mean much, but if he had quit his job soon after the hijacking, we'd certainly be hearing that as evidence of his guilt. The fact that he worked there for so long, to me, is just more evidence that he was not involved.

Right....and if everything Blevins says is true, there still is nothing that ties Kenny to the flight.  And, nobody (other than his brother) will even come out and suggest he is.  There just doesn't seem to be any "there" there.

Yep, and what exactly is "the biggest set of coincidences in frickin' history" ? I fail to see this massive amount of "coincidences" ??????
I wish everyone could talk to Gray about the KC story, how it evolved, who did what when and for what reasons, how the story came to him through Porteous, evidence Gray collected on Kenny, and the conclusions Gray came to himself ............ all substantially different and more concrete than the story (stories) RMB had dispensed on DZ.
I asked Gray if he would go public in rebuttal to RMB and he said "absolutely not!". Gray wants nothing to do with this. Gray's version of Kenny's life is different from RMB's version.  RMB has cherry picked Gray's article and avoided
elements of Gray's article not useful to RMB's purpose.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 11, 2014, 05:36:10 PM
I suspect a lot of "writer's imagination" involved with the whole thing, or hype. I just don't see anything concrete. I'm guessing this could be done with almost anyone in Washington that remotely fits the description, or lived in the area in 1971.


If you really want a set of coincidences. take a look at Vicki's father.



Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 11, 2014, 10:07:17 PM
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How about the fact that Kenny continued to work for NWA for many years after the hijacking? I know Blevins says that doesn't mean much, but if he had quit his job soon after the hijacking, we'd certainly be hearing that as evidence of his guilt. The fact that he worked there for so long, to me, is just more evidence that he was not involved.

Right....and if everything Blevins says is true, there still is nothing that ties Kenny to the flight.  And, nobody (other than his brother) will even come out and suggest he is.  There just doesn't seem to be any "there" there.

Yep, and what exactly is "the biggest set of coincidences in frickin' history" ? I fail to see this massive amount of "coincidences" ??????
I wish everyone could talk to Gray about the KC story, how it evolved, who did what when and for what reasons, how the story came to him through Porteous, evidence Gray collected on Kenny, and the conclusions Gray came to himself ............ all substantially different and more concrete than the story (stories) RMB had dispensed on DZ.
I asked Gray if he would go public in rebuttal to RMB and he said "absolutely not!". Gray wants nothing to do with this. Gray's version of Kenny's life is different from RMB's version.  RMB has cherry picked Gray's article and avoided
elements of Gray's article not useful to RMB's purpose.



Anyway you look at it, this was a half ass investigation. where ever, or who ever started the cash deal for the house did a fatal error by not checking the County records. the $5000 loan has never been confirmed. records should have been checked to see if a house was even bought in that time period. that's another fatal error. two different stories about the money found on the property. no records of any ads about asking about the money find. the guy who had the sign shop had a convincing story about the money being found in the early 2000's, not the mid 90's when whats her name owned the house. satellite photo's confirm his story of the property being leveled. then you have a woman ID the tie clip, but not a black tie? not one single picture showing KC with a wig on. red flag again. none of them have come forward to any LEO prior to Lyle stating the whole thing. why would Lyle not be smart enough to put this together soon after it happened? Lyle has several patients. this tells me he has a creative mind! an influencing mind! I can't buy into all of this. the FBI would laugh at this sort of nonsense. what's funny is some of them think they are smarter than the FBI...
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 12, 2014, 08:52:08 AM
Farflung says this...

I don’t understand all this Bernie is a criminal because ‘I caught him in a lie’ stuff.

There is more than enough creepy behavior to go around for this flock of losers. IF Kenny was sooooo broke that he had to dig ditches to make ends meet….. then what sort of moron would approach him for a loan for the down payment on a house? Moron or crook or fairy tale weaver that is. I mean really, who does this? Oh, you have been on strike and don’t have any money…. ummm…. yeah…. ahhh…. Could you loan me some money for a house? I ask because I’m an idiot. Yeah, that story held water.

IF this story is true, then the person who asked for the loan KNEW that Kenny came into some money from nefarious means and is as dirty and filthy as anyone involved. What a cretin. She should be exposed as an accessory after the fact and scorned with ridicule. I certainly would never associate with such a piece of human garbage or social bottom feeder. What a piece of work. Publish her phone number, address and photo so descent people can know what to avoid. I’m getting sick just thinking about what it must have been like talking to such a monster. Good thing I just use a computer and am old and don’t do anything. Gosh.


Reply was this...

Farflung: I don't know what to tell you about Bernie's sister and the loan. She didn't know KC very well pre-hijacking, as she had only moved to Washington a few months previous to the crime. And she never said she was sure Kenny was the hijacker. She did ID the tie tac and say she suspected he was from the start.

She freely admitted the $5,000 loan from Kenny, how it was arranged by her brother, delivered by her brother, and how she repaid Kenny in two years. She said he gave her four years to repay and even gave me the address of the house she bought. Whaddya want? I'm not the FBI. I think I gathered enough evidence to at least have them look at KC, that's all. I don't know any more than you do if he was the hijacker.


as Farf says, who would loan someone a large sum of money with only knowing them a short time? some of you have known me (online) for years, would you loan me $25,000? on top of that, leave no records of such a large transaction? according to the statement, KC only knew her a couple months? the average home ran about $20k to $25k  in 1971, you didn't need $5,000 to put down on it! red flag. a new car was well under $5,000 in 1971. it doesn't calculate properly.

The coin/stamp collection jumps from $400,000 to $300,000 and back down to $30,000 blaming email typo?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on May 12, 2014, 12:54:26 PM
I think that Bernie probably likes the little bit of celebrity that he gets from the accusation of being part of the DB Cooper hijacking. Let a movie come forward with these accusations, and I bet that changes. My guess is that suing a production company would be much more lucrative than suing Blevins, and that's not a knock on Blevins.

I also wonder about these "witnesses" that are used to promote the KC theory. Are they intrigued by the possibility that they may have knew DB Cooper? So much so that they remember things a little differently than they really were?

I also have a hard time with the notion that none of these people knew originally why Blevins was asking around about Kenny. The Gray article had already been done. How do you not know that such a close acquaintance had been named as a suspect in one of the most notorious unsolved crimes in US history?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 12, 2014, 01:09:18 PM
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I think that Bernie probably likes the little bit of celebrity that he gets from the accusation of being part of the DB Cooper hijacking. Let a movie come forward with these accusations, and I bet that changes. My guess is that suing a production company would be much more lucrative than suing Blevins, and that's not a knock on Blevins.

I also wonder about these "witnesses" that are used to promote the KC theory. Are they intrigued by the possibility that they may have knew DB Cooper? So much so that they remember things a little differently than they really were?

I also have a hard time with the notion that none of these people knew originally why Blevins was asking around about Kenny. The Gray article had already been done. How do you not know that such a close acquaintance had been named as a suspect in one of the most notorious unsolved crimes in US history?


Movie deal? extremely doubtful. most of the people, or all of them lived in Washington most of there lives. I'm sure they were aware of the implications why someone would be asking questions. do these people tell the story of knowing who DB Cooper was in average conversation? but fail to come forward to Law Enforcement? the FBI is not going to come flying in when a couple people implicate someone in a crime. I'm sure behind the scenes they already checked most of what is being told about KC. If by chance they read the book and followed up. I'm sure they got a giggle once most of the FACTS were found not true. it's ran it's course years ago. one guy & a kid struggle forward  pushing KC. 8)


The police are doing the exact samething Blevins is doing with KC. taking a bunch of circumstances, and running with it.

they claim I used my 30 day paper tag from 2009, because it matches the first 3 letters given by the driver.
The driver said he was hit by a Dodge 1500. I have a Dodge Dakota, much smaller.
I was 25 miles away from the scene that day.
I have never had an expired tag on my truck.
The driver ID'd me from my DL. the photo is 17 years old. he also claimed the driver was in his 30's to mid 40's. I'm in my 50's. I wear a cap & sunglasses everyday.
My truck has company writing all over it. never mentioned. included a phone number in large letters on the tailgate!
The Insurance company proved my truck bumper was to low to hit that vehicle! zero damage on my truck.

And yet I'm still being charged with a criminal traffic violation. I also have a ticket for expired tag from 2009 that was never seen on my truck! it's not that hard to take a bunch of circumstances and try it make it sound good, even when it's completely false. I know, I've been living with false accusations for months now.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on May 12, 2014, 02:12:42 PM
And if you were not around to defend yourself or refute the accusations, people would assume them as fact.

Wonder what Kenny himself would think of the DBC accusations? (What the f%#k???).
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 12, 2014, 02:29:23 PM
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And if you were not around to defend yourself or refute the accusations, people would assume them as fact.

Wonder what Kenny himself would think of the DBC accusations? (What the f%#k???).


Correct, most of the other people claiming a suspect look for hard evidence. accusations don't fly. you base the story around what people say, then look for hard solid evidence. KC's evidence is slowly washing away. he will tell you it doesn't really matter, but he sure surrounded it while it was still called evidence, or prior to be discovered untrue. that leaves a couple people saying KC was Cooper. the large lot was bought prior to the crime, it was sold for $17,000 an acre. where do you think the large sum of money came from in the last couple years of his life? I think the real question might be, where is the rest of the money? he had close to $200k a couple years before he died.?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on May 12, 2014, 02:47:26 PM
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And if you were not around to defend yourself or refute the accusations, people would assume them as fact.

Wonder what Kenny himself would think of the DBC accusations? (What the f%#k???).


Correct, most of the other people claiming a suspect look for hard evidence. accusations don't fly. you base the story around what people say, then look for hard solid evidence. KC's evidence is slowly washing away. he will tell you it doesn't really matter, but he sure surrounded it while it was still called evidence, or prior to be discovered untrue. that leaves a couple people saying KC was Cooper. the large lot was bought prior to the crime, it was sold for $17,000 an acre. where do you think the large sum of money came from in the last couple years of his life? I think the real question might be, where is the resat of the money? he had close to $200 a couple years before he died.?

Shutter,
What other documents would like to find?  I might try to go down to the Pierce County Court house when I'm able to get a day off and check and try to find documents from the 1970s which aren't available online.

I assume we want purchase and sale of Kenny's house, along with any liens, mortgages or reconveyances.
Purchase, sale, mortgages, notes or reconveyances on  Helen Jones.

That might put an end to all of this.

Interesting point about "where was the rest of the money".  Kenny, after supposedly being a hijacker, kept working, lived in a rural house not much larger than a trailer and died with an estate smaller than the proceeds of a sale of some land only two years prior.  Nobody will now claim he was the hijacker and nothing in his past indicated he would be the type to pull off such a crime.

I guess the biggest question would be:  Why is he even considered a suspect at all?
Purchase and Sale
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 12, 2014, 02:57:49 PM
the only thing linking him to the crime is people. nothing else, just talk. lots of speculation, some of it has already been proven false. it's all hype. even the apartment he lived in. it's portrayed as a dump. that is today's standard of the apartments. the rent might of been low so he could stockpile cash for a down payment, or he used the land as collateral? I don't know.

records about Dawn Androsko purchasing a home 4 months after the crime needs verified. she has lots of records online, but not far enough back. let me think about what is needed......
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on May 12, 2014, 03:13:35 PM
Mark asked: I guess the biggest question would be:  Why is he even considered a suspect at all?

My answer: Nothing. I could throw out several people as suspects. But, if the FBI don't bother to take a look, and the agent in charge of the case at the time (Carr) says he isn't a suspect. Then he isn't a suspect. Calling Kenny Christiansen a suspect in this case, is perhaps the biggest stretch in the whole KC story.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 12, 2014, 03:24:06 PM
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Mark asked: I guess the biggest question would be:  Why is he even considered a suspect at all?

My answer: Nothing. I could throw out several people as suspects. But, if the FBI don't bother to take a look, and the agent in charge of the case at the time (Carr) says he isn't a suspect. Then he isn't a suspect. Calling Kenny Christiansen a suspect in this case, is perhaps the biggest stretch in the whole KC story.


I think it's pretty safe to say it's highly possible they checked into KC. it did bring attention to the case. it wouldn't take them long to check things. they don't have to speak with anyone unless it was important enough. people tend to forget that they hold back enough information to rule suspects out so they can't latch on to everything. I'm sure the FBI is not upfront about discussing what they do with suspects.

with over a thousands suspects, I wonder how many made for tv scripts there are lol
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on May 12, 2014, 06:01:57 PM
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Mark asked: I guess the biggest question would be:  Why is he even considered a suspect at all?

My answer: Nothing. I could throw out several people as suspects. But, if the FBI don't bother to take a look, and the agent in charge of the case at the time (Carr) says he isn't a suspect. Then he isn't a suspect. Calling Kenny Christiansen a suspect in this case, is perhaps the biggest stretch in the whole KC story.


I think it's pretty safe to say it's highly possible they checked into KC. it did bring attention to the case. it wouldn't take them long to check things. they don't have to speak with anyone unless it was important enough. people tend to forget that they hold back enough information to rule suspects out so they can't latch on to everything. I'm sure the FBI is not upfront about discussing what they do with suspects.

with over a thousands suspects, I wonder how many made for tv scripts there are lol

Considering the interaction that Gray had with Carr, I'm sure Kenny at least had the FBI's attention.  I'm sure they talked about him.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 12, 2014, 06:15:05 PM
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Mark asked: I guess the biggest question would be:  Why is he even considered a suspect at all?

My answer: Nothing. I could throw out several people as suspects. But, if the FBI don't bother to take a look, and the agent in charge of the case at the time (Carr) says he isn't a suspect. Then he isn't a suspect. Calling Kenny Christiansen a suspect in this case, is perhaps the biggest stretch in the whole KC story.


I think it's pretty safe to say it's highly possible they checked into KC. it did bring attention to the case. it wouldn't take them long to check things. they don't have to speak with anyone unless it was important enough. people tend to forget that they hold back enough information to rule suspects out so they can't latch on to everything. I'm sure the FBI is not upfront about discussing what they do with suspects.

with over a thousands suspects, I wonder how many made for tv scripts there are lol

Considering the interaction that Gray had with Carr, I'm sure Kenny at least had the FBI's attention.  So, he at least had a little bit of their attention.


Yep, and probably more than they will talk about. it's not going to be the FBI's best interest to follow up on a few people accusing someone of this crime. you don't think they seen decoded? anything sent to them has to be looked at, so what's that tell ya....
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on May 12, 2014, 11:12:41 PM
Georger:    good on you for calling out the KC bs.  btw, the guy's name is "Mike Fitzsimmons,"  of radio AM 970 Spokane.   He was interviewing me live that November afternoon in 2007 when he got Lyle on the phone and we literally took him apart.  Lyle stated,"I don't have a clue about KC being DD Cooper, I just decided it would make a great movie like Sleepless in Seattle."   i.e.....Lyle made it up.   But you know this from having communicated with Fitzsimmons, who happens to be an attorney, professor and talkshow broadcaster.   Skipp Porteous and Gray both know it too.  RMB piggybacked on the fake story for personal gain, but he knows nothing about the NORJAK case.  Weber is no different.  Jo made up a huge, meaningless story based on what Duane "supposedly" told her in his hospital room.  ie....no other ear witnesses.   The DZ entertains made-up stories with virtually no knowledge of NORJAK and no ability to investigate new claims.   But you already knew this, Georger.   
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 12, 2014, 11:21:54 PM
Is there a copy of that interview anywhere? I've heard about this for years?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on May 12, 2014, 11:41:19 PM
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Georger:    good on you for calling out the KC bs.  btw, the guy's name is "Mike Fitzsimmons,"  of radio AM 970 Spokane.   He was interviewing me live that November afternoon in 2007 when he got Lyle on the phone and we literally took him apart.  Lyle stated,"I don't have a clue about KC being DD Cooper, I just decided it would make a great movie like Sleepless in Seattle."   i.e.....Lyle made it up.   But you know this from having communicated with Fitzsimmons, who happens to be an attorney, professor and talkshow broadcaster.   Skipp Porteous and Gray both know it too.  RMB piggybacked on the fake story for personal gain, but he knows nothing about the NORJAK case.  Weber is no different.  Jo made up a huge, meaningless story based on what Duane "supposedly" told her in his hospital room.  ie....no other ear witnesses.   The DZ entertains made-up stories with virtually no knowledge of NORJAK and no ability to investigate new claims.   But you already knew this, Georger.

RMB does not believe Lyle either.  He thinks Lyle doesn't know one way or the other.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 12, 2014, 11:45:12 PM
I have read numerous articles of Lyle being quoted as to believing KC was Cooper......


KOMO news

Lyle Christansen is convinced, but there are still many skeptics. The mayor of Bonney Lake says if Lyle's story proves to be true, he'll have Kenny's house turned into a historical site.

while watching unsolved mysteries Lye said this....."That's my brother Kenny," Christiansen said to himself.

Since then, Christiansen has led a quixotic crusade to convince the FBI that Cooper was his brother, now dead. Like hundreds of others who have contacted the FBI at some point, Christiansen belongs to a cult of people who believe they know who committed, as the lead FBI investigator calls it, "the country's greatest mystery."

Agent Carr follows up...

While some involved with the case think Christiansen is onto something, the agent now leading the Cooper case isn't buying it.

"I'm sure he absolutely believes his brother is D.B. Cooper," said Larry Carr, who has been the lead investigator on the case for just over a year. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you."He's not a viable suspect," FBI spokeswoman Robbie Burroughs said.

FBI page

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2007/december/dbcooper_123107
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on May 13, 2014, 06:16:18 AM
Shutter, you could call the Mike Fitzsimmons Show in Spokane (970 AM radio) and ask them if they have the tape.  There were two interviews with Mike, but Lyle Christianson  appeared on the first show, early November 2007.   Lyle is a goof.  He came across as a bit of a scam artist and Mike Fitzsimmons took him to the shed under cross examination.  The entire KC story is made-up.  Skipp Porteous knows it and so does Geoff Gray.  The only one hanging on is Blevins.  Pretty sad.  But good for Georger, who pieced all the holes in Blevin's story.  Goerger has some pretty keen forensics background and understands how things fit together.  Nothing fits in the KC story.  Also, Georger is to be backed up with his prior assertions about Geoff Gray making negative comments towards Blevins.  It's true.  Gray spoke to me also and wanted to put huge distance between himself and Blevins.  No love there on the part of Gray.

 As for Jo Weber, the FBI has stated that Jo has absolutely no evidence, not even probative circumstantial evidence, on Duane.  Jo has been casting and spinning backstories of anything she can dredge up in her mind to make people listen to her.  Won't even go into the kinds of things the FBI believes Jo Weber is capable of.  All Jo has left is to try and create more dirt on people.   Jo has an extremely checkered past.  All kinds of things.  Don't want to use the word insane, or evil, but it seems many people believe this.  Just an old lady who is irrelevant, so she wants to bring a few down with her as she goes to the bottom.  The way it is with some folks.  The best thing would be for Jo to go into permanent mental health facility.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 13, 2014, 09:34:52 AM
Thanks Coop. I noticed on DZ Robert finally showed part of KC's DD214, but it seems to be missing a page. It appears his occupation was a mail clerk if I'm reading it right. perhaps Robert99 could explain it better. the page missing is the important one that explains his occupation in detail.

Example below....
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 13, 2014, 10:08:16 AM
Coop, PLEASE do me a favor and refrain from giving someone's mental status. I didn't read the entire post until now. I was reading two other websites during my last post about the DD214. I think we all understand your position with both posters.....
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Robert99 on May 13, 2014, 12:35:36 PM
The DD214 is something different from the Separation Qualification Record shown in the example.  And I think I have seen KC's DD214 on DZ and that it has been discussed at some length there.

Robert99
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 13, 2014, 12:48:15 PM
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The DD214 is something different from the Separation Qualification Record shown in the example.  And I think I have seen KC's DD214 on DZ and that it has been discussed at some length there.

Robert99


I get confused here between the two. the report of separation on Kenny seems to have two pages correct? most of them I'm seeing have a page with the description of service broken down.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Robert99 on May 13, 2014, 01:10:39 PM
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The DD214 is something different from the Separation Qualification Record shown in the example.  And I think I have seen KC's DD214 on DZ and that it has been discussed at some length there.

Robert99


I get confused here between the two. the report of separation on Kenny seems to have two pages correct? most of them I'm seeing have a page with the description of service broken down.

The DD214 is actually only one page long.  There may have been other documents included with it in the DZ posting.  But the DD214 form is the most important piece of paper that an individual gets when separating from the Military.  Copies of the DD214 can also be obtained through the Veterans Administration since they also receive a copy of it, but there are probably some restrictions on that source.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 13, 2014, 01:11:38 PM
I didn't see the actual form on DZ. that was one of the problems with him. he posted what was seen on the separation form, but left out the part about the mail clerk position.

Enlisted Record and Report of Separation
Kenneth P Christiansen
R-3 Morris Minn
17 OCT 26
Date of Enlistment 25 May 44
Date of Entry into Active Service 18 Dec 44
17 141 033
T/5
Entry: Ft. Leavenworth
Service Outside Continental US and Return
Departure date: 15 Aug 45
Destination: APTO
Date of Arrival: 7 Sept 45
Date of Departure: 13 Sep 46
Destination: USA
Date of Arrival: 26 Sep 46
Parachutist's Badge
MKM M-1 rifle
Asiatic Pacific Theater Ribbon
Victory Medal
Good Conduct Medal
Army of Occupation Medal Japan
Reason for Separation: CONVN OF GOVTAR 615-365 RR1-1 DEMB 15 DEC 44 TWX WCL 23610 29JUN46
Lapel Button Issued
Two Overseas Bar
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on May 13, 2014, 04:07:31 PM
Also, there appears to be no record of KC ever jumping during deployment.  He might have been trained during WW2, but lots of personnel were trained who never deployed.  Additionally, KC's jumps were all static line jumps, a far different kind of exit from that of DBC.   As for Mr. Blevins, I think Georger has his number.   Georger has pulled-apart the KC myth that Blevins is desperately trying to hang onto.  The FBI knows its all bullshit.  I think Georger has pulled the final stop on Blevins, although Blevins will try a bit more.  He has nothing else to do with his life.  And that is painfully obvious.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on May 13, 2014, 04:11:15 PM
Shutter:   my mistake.  The Mike Fitzsimmons Show is on AM 920 in Spokane.  I believe the call sign is KXLA, or something close. Fitzsimmons would probably respond directly to an inquiry.  I know that he and Georger had some interesting communications about the KC bullshit story.  Georger will confirm this.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 13, 2014, 04:29:06 PM


(http://www.kxly920.com/upload/Fitz400x250.jpg)

Mike Fitzsimmons has been on the air in Spokane since 1974. He's been a radio and television news director for several local stations and is currently the host of KXLY 920 News Scope.

Mike is also a broadcasting instructor at Gonzaga University and had a long stint as an unlimited hydroplane racing announcer.

One of the outstanding accomplishments in Mike's broadcast career came in May, 1980, when he spent a marathon 56 hours on air reporting the Mt. St. Helens eruption and its effects on Eastern Washington.

You can reach Mike at MikeF@kxly.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on May 13, 2014, 04:33:21 PM
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Georger:    good on you for calling out the KC bs.  btw, the guy's name is "Mike Fitzsimmons,"  of radio AM 970 Spokane.   He was interviewing me live that November afternoon in 2007 when he got Lyle on the phone and we literally took him apart.  Lyle stated,"I don't have a clue about KC being DD Cooper, I just decided it would make a great movie like Sleepless in Seattle."   i.e.....Lyle made it up.   But you know this from having communicated with Fitzsimmons, who happens to be an attorney, professor and talkshow broadcaster.   Skipp Porteous and Gray both know it too.  RMB piggybacked on the fake story for personal gain, but he knows nothing about the NORJAK case.  Weber is no different.  Jo made up a huge, meaningless story based on what Duane "supposedly" told her in his hospital room.  ie....no other ear witnesses.   The DZ entertains made-up stories with virtually no knowledge of NORJAK and no ability to investigate new claims.   But you already knew this, Georger.

Yes sorry - I keep calling him Simmons. Fact is Im nervous every time I go to DZ - fear retaliation - and am tired of all the personal attacks I get there. There are a couple of things I think need to be said so will post separately.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on May 13, 2014, 04:47:42 PM
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(http://www.kxly920.com/upload/Fitz400x250.jpg)

Mike Fitzsimmons has been on the air in Spokane since 1974. He's been a radio and television news director for several local stations and is currently the host of KXLY 920 News Scope.

Mike is also a broadcasting instructor at Gonzaga University and had a long stint as an unlimited hydroplane racing announcer.

One of the outstanding accomplishments in Mike's broadcast career came in May, 1980, when he spent a marathon 56 hours on air reporting the Mt. St. Helens eruption and its effects on Eastern Washington.

You can reach Mike at MikeF@kxly.com

I talked to Mike at length over several weeks after an intro from Galen.

I was surprised at Mike's recollection of the program. He confirmed everything Galen says. He confirmed that Lyle backed down quickly and said the whole thing was an idea for a movie script, and that Lyle said openly he really did not believe Kenny had been DB Cooper. 

I queried Galen's role in the program. Mike said Galen played a very minor role and backed down completely so as not to influence anything Lyle had to say. Mike said, "I was fully in charge of the program and gave Lyle total freedom to say whatever he was going to say without any influence from anyone."  That was important for me to hear. Mike felt Lyle was not influenced or coerced in any manner and spoke freely and openly. Mike said he was astounded that Blevins (or Lyle) would deny the program ever occurred, or that Lyle did not say what he said.
Mike described Galen as being in the background saying nothing while Lyle did all the talking.

Mike says there is no transcript. He says he went back to retrieve the program tape later only to find the engineer had wiped the tape for the next show! But, Mike said he will swear and sign a document to verify his version of what Lyle said.
 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on May 13, 2014, 05:07:39 PM
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Also, there appears to be no record of KC ever jumping during deployment.  He might have been trained during WW2, but lots of personnel were trained who never deployed.  Additionally, KC's jumps were all static line jumps, a far different kind of exit from that of DBC.   As for Mr. Blevins, I think Georger has his number.   Georger has pulled-apart the KC myth that Blevins is desperately trying to hang onto.  The FBI knows its all bullshit.  I think Georger has pulled the final stop on Blevins, although Blevins will try a bit more.  He has nothing else to do with his life.  And that is painfully obvious.

I have no problem saying this:  I talked to Geoff about Blevins on two occasions. The first time right after Blevins had come to DZ and was stirring the water and attacking Sluggo. I didn't know if Geoff would even know who Blevins was - he did! Geoff was very specific in the negative concerning RMB. Geoff said he wanted absolutely nothing to do with Blevins and he referred to 'history' he was aware of - he did not/would not elaborate what that meant. I fired back at Geoff and said "well what? what history? what transactions'. Geoff laughed and said: "I don't want to go into it but don't have anything to do with him and and don't believe anything he says." I still pressed Geoff and he commented further, which I'm not going to share. Then watching and reading RMB in the months following my conversation with Geoff, I slowly came to take everything Geoff had said seriously. .... I talked to Geoff twice more in the years following, one of those conversations Shutter is aware of and I reported on that verbatim on DZ right after hanging up with Geoff on the phone. You can read my verbatim report on DZ.

But! We are missing something here about the whole KC debacle that I think need to be spelled out. I will do that tonight. re- Lyle came to NYC to peddle a movie idea. He contacted PI Porteous to provide an introduction. He paid Porteous a fee. At length Porteous and Geoff Gray communicated and investigated resulting in Gray's article in The New Yorker. A movie script has been at the core of all these transactions since the beginning and still is! Blevins was then contacted for a movie script specifically! The basic research had been done, by Gray and Porteous! Porteous wanted . . . a movie script.  Lyle still wants ... his movie script!  That is all this is about, ie. a movie script!

In my opinion, everything Blevins has done, serves the purpose of a movie script ... from promotions to claims.

They wanted a movie script and by God they are going to have a .... MOVIE SCRIPT ... no matter what! 
       
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 13, 2014, 05:16:46 PM
"I have no problem saying this:"

I don't have any problem discussing this in the form you have approached. this is the things that need exposed. with KC way in the background I'm shocked it has gone this long. what are the odds of getting a hold of the interview, or the transcripts to it? it's a shame people take advantage of things, especially if they have past away. hard evidence needs to surface in this matter....

this is where the sidebar conversation I put in place is needed  8)

added: for some reason I missed the lower portion of your post. I see everything was deleted.......crap!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on May 13, 2014, 08:05:48 PM
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Also, there appears to be no record of KC ever jumping during deployment.  He might have been trained during WW2, but lots of personnel were trained who never deployed.  Additionally, KC's jumps were all static line jumps, a far different kind of exit from that of DBC.   As for Mr. Blevins, I think Georger has his number.   Georger has pulled-apart the KC myth that Blevins is desperately trying to hang onto.  The FBI knows its all bullshit.  I think Georger has pulled the final stop on Blevins, although Blevins will try a bit more.  He has nothing else to do with his life.  And that is painfully obvious.
That seems quite possible.  Reading Kenny's discharge (which was posted here) shows Kenny was deployed overseas on August 15, 1945, which coincides almost exactly with VJ Day.  The form also shows a medal for parachute jumping, but that could be training in prep for a possible Pacific invasion which never happened.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 13, 2014, 08:10:06 PM
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Also, there appears to be no record of KC ever jumping during deployment.  He might have been trained during WW2, but lots of personnel were trained who never deployed.  Additionally, KC's jumps were all static line jumps, a far different kind of exit from that of DBC.   As for Mr. Blevins, I think Georger has his number.   Georger has pulled-apart the KC myth that Blevins is desperately trying to hang onto.  The FBI knows its all bullshit.  I think Georger has pulled the final stop on Blevins, although Blevins will try a bit more.  He has nothing else to do with his life.  And that is painfully obvious.
That seems quite possible.  Reading Kenny's discharge (which was posted here) shows Kenny was deployed overseas on August 15, 1945, which coincides almost exactly with VJ Day.  The form also shows a medal for parachute jumping, but that could be training in prep for a possible Pacific invasion which never happened.

we don't seem to have enough information. I read it as his primary job being a mail clerk. I think he went thru the parachute training in boot camp, and that was the end of it.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on May 13, 2014, 10:36:07 PM
I will say this about Georger:  he challenged me too,  directly, on my being a guest with Mike Fitzsimmons.  Georger does his homework and I believe he treats people fairly and equally.  But I don't think he likes persistent bullshitters who are peddling their wares as "true stories" without solid back-up.  Probably why Georger is taking on certain people who lack credentials, but still try and speak with authority.  Physics professors, with application of pure logic 24/7, can smell impostors, better than most.

To Mark (377):  hey, I cleaned toilets, scrubbed floors, and peddled newspapers too.  For many years.  And worked heavy duty construction.  Fished.  etc...  And paid all grad school bills with my own savings.   A lot of us have been there.  Probably Georger too.  I think Georger's point is that people who are 60 years old and still do that for a living usually don't have the credentials to engage a particular type of professional work.  It has little to do with being stuck up.  It has to do with qualifications and having paid dues to play in the game.  Blevins has not.   And spinning a yarn endlessly, praying it will catch on, does not impress those who have true qualifications.

Lastly, about Jo Weber:   She scares not.  My own grannie told me about old people who act with vengeance and meanness.  They never learned to be kind and help others.  Jo is Exhibit A.  On her way out with nothing, but a checkered past (which I know all about), and like Blevins, hoping anyone will buy her tale.  Besides, my grannie told me that she'll meet Jo Weber anytime and place Jo wants......and I'd put money on my grannie.   She would wump Jo Weber's ass.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 14, 2014, 03:05:25 AM
So far, it appears that 8 posts are missing from the transition. 7 from this category, and one from the website problem thread. I think they were migrating the site during the time frame of the last posting made.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on May 14, 2014, 10:37:20 AM
Hi all:  Just to let you know I have successfully got to this new site.
On Monday, Bruce Smith and I met with Don Bennett a retired Boeing 727 test pilot for lunch and he confirmed that taking off, flying and landing with the aft airstairs deployed was no problem but he was not involved in the actual demonstration flight for the Govcernment to show capabilities that could sell more planes for government work. Don said it was a good and easy plane to fly and by pushing forward on the wheel just before toughdown, it landed like a dream. He confirmed that anything that could be tested in the wind tunnel was done by Boeing and the airstairs down configuration would have been one of those tests.
Sheridan Peterson (my suspect) worked at Boeing and would have had access to most information just by calling and asking. He spent plenty of time planing the DB Caper and Bruce mentioned a strange call someone remembers their grandfather got just before Norjak asking some probing questions at Boeing. DB Cooper knew more about the airstairs and take off and landing while deployed than even the pilots of the skyjacked plane. Don Bennett agreed it was no problem to tale off with the stairs deployed, just get enough airspeed to get vertical lift and off you go. Rotation of the plane is only used to make shorter take off runs and get ground clearances.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on May 14, 2014, 11:17:03 AM
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So far, it appears that 8 posts are missing from the transition. 7 from this category, and one from the website problem thread. I think they were migrating the site during the time frame of the last posting made.

So far no problems. In fact its much faster than the old site.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: EVickiW on May 14, 2014, 12:38:18 PM
I did a search on Google to see if this forum made the top hits...it did not, but I found this little piece of information about a new suspect. Unfortunately the name of his suspect is not disclosed.   

"Mixed Martial Artist Chael Sonnen claimed on Joe Rogan's podcast that he believed to know the identity of Cooper, and that he was a family friend (Sonnen is from West Linn, Oregon). He also claims that the publishers of his book excised his chapter talking about his beliefs because he refused to provide the name."

The video of the Joe Rogan radio show is here: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/22593957
The Cooper conversation starts at approximately 2:02 and is about 8 minutes long.
Title: Re: Questions for Mark Bennett
Post by: georger on May 15, 2014, 03:47:20 PM
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Also, there appears to be no record of KC ever jumping during deployment.  He might have been trained during WW2, but lots of personnel were trained who never deployed.  Additionally, KC's jumps were all static line jumps, a far different kind of exit from that of DBC.   As for Mr. Blevins, I think Georger has his number.   Georger has pulled-apart the KC myth that Blevins is desperately trying to hang onto.  The FBI knows its all bullshit.  I think Georger has pulled the final stop on Blevins, although Blevins will try a bit more.  He has nothing else to do with his life.  And that is painfully obvious.
That seems quite possible.  Reading Kenny's discharge (which was posted here) shows Kenny was deployed overseas on August 15, 1945, which coincides almost exactly with VJ Day.  The form also shows a medal for parachute jumping, but that could be training in prep for a possible Pacific invasion which never happened.

Just finished reading Bruce's interview with you and Sail. Questions:

After listening to an hour or more of the flight transmissions from 305, was there anything that stood out to you - anything about Cooper, anything about how the hijacking was being handled, ... ?

As far as you are concerned how big a 'secret' was it that the 727 could be jumped via the rear stairs? Do you really think knowing or realising that vulnerability required insider information or skills at the time?

What do you think about the Bohan report?

What was the scuttlebutt about the hijacking and Cooper after the fact, that you overheard? Anything noteworthy that you can recall?

 

   
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 15, 2014, 04:22:55 PM
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I did a search on Google to see if this forum made the top hits...it did not, but I found this little piece of information about a new suspect. Unfortunately the name of his suspect is not disclosed.   

"Mixed Martial Artist Chael Sonnen claimed on Joe Rogan's podcast that he believed to know the identity of Cooper, and that he was a family friend (Sonnen is from West Linn, Oregon). He also claims that the publishers of his book excised his chapter talking about his beliefs because he refused to provide the name."

The video of the Joe Rogan radio show is here: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/22593957
The Cooper conversation starts at approximately 2:02 and is about 8 minutes long.


This guy seems to be about as confident as Blevins. he thinks Nascar and golf are not sports because, I guess you don't beat people up lol. he knows exactly where Bigfoot is, and knows who Cooper is who seems to be an American Indian according to him. he knew all about the bomb in the bag too.  ;D if you watch it. Cooper is discussed towards the end. you might want to jump instead of listening to the whole thing.
Title: Questions from Georger about Don Bennett
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on May 15, 2014, 07:39:47 PM
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Also, there appears to be no record of KC ever jumping during deployment.  He might have been trained during WW2, but lots of personnel were trained who never deployed.  Additionally, KC's jumps were all static line jumps, a far different kind of exit from that of DBC.   As for Mr. Blevins, I think Georger has his number.   Georger has pulled-apart the KC myth that Blevins is desperately trying to hang onto.  The FBI knows its all bullshit.  I think Georger has pulled the final stop on Blevins, although Blevins will try a bit more.  He has nothing else to do with his life.  And that is painfully obvious.
That seems quite possible.  Reading Kenny's discharge (which was posted here) shows Kenny was deployed overseas on August 15, 1945, which coincides almost exactly with VJ Day.  The form also shows a medal for parachute jumping, but that could be training in prep for a possible Pacific invasion which never happened.

Just finished reading Bruce's interview with you and Sail. Questions:

After listening to an hour or more of the flight transmissions from 305, was there anything that stood out to you - anything about Cooper, anything about how the hijacking was being handled, ... ?

As far as you are concerned how big a 'secret' was it that the 727 could be jumped via the rear stairs? Do you really think knowing or realising that vulnerability required insider information or skills at the time?

What do you think about the Bohan report?

What was the scuttlebutt about the hijacking and Cooper after the fact, that you overheard? Anything noteworthy that you can recall?

 

 

My overall opinion of Don Bennett is that everything he says has to be taken with a grain of salt.  He just has too many stories.  Plus, he seems to be an active alcoholic; hence, stories take precedence over anything else.

As for secrets at Boeing, I think they did a thorough job of keeping their secret 727 tests confidential.  Maybe Bennett heard rumors, maybe not.

I asked Don about the tone and nature of the 305 transmissions and he was ambivalent.  I suspect that he was BS-ing us.  Plus, he described himself being on an USAF training mission, not a Boeing gig.  Inconsistencies like this peppered his commentaries.

I think the Bohan report is highly suspect.  Don does, too.

Don didn't offer any opinion on DB Cooper even though I asked him.  My query was lot in a barrage of conversation and story-telling.
Title: Re: Questions from Georger "tooooooooooooooooooo" Don Bennett
Post by: georger on May 15, 2014, 11:31:40 PM
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Also, there appears to be no record of KC ever jumping during deployment.  He might have been trained during WW2, but lots of personnel were trained who never deployed.  Additionally, KC's jumps were all static line jumps, a far different kind of exit from that of DBC.   As for Mr. Blevins, I think Georger has his number.   Georger has pulled-apart the KC myth that Blevins is desperately trying to hang onto.  The FBI knows its all bullshit.  I think Georger has pulled the final stop on Blevins, although Blevins will try a bit more.  He has nothing else to do with his life.  And that is painfully obvious.
That seems quite possible.  Reading Kenny's discharge (which was posted here) shows Kenny was deployed overseas on August 15, 1945, which coincides almost exactly with VJ Day.  The form also shows a medal for parachute jumping, but that could be training in prep for a possible Pacific invasion which never happened.

Just finished reading Bruce's interview with you and Sail. Questions:

After listening to an hour or more of the flight transmissions from 305, was there anything that stood out to you - anything about Cooper, anything about how the hijacking was being handled, ... ?

As far as you are concerned how big a 'secret' was it that the 727 could be jumped via the rear stairs? Do you really think knowing or realising that vulnerability required insider information or skills at the time?

What do you think about the Bohan report?

What was the scuttlebutt about the hijacking and Cooper after the fact, that you overheard? Anything noteworthy that you can recall?

 

 

My overall opinion of Don Bennett is that everything he says has to be taken with a grain of salt.  He just has too many stories.  Plus, he seems to be an active alcoholic; hence, stories take precedence over anything else.

As for secrets at Boeing, I think they did a thorough job of keeping their secret 727 tests confidential.  Maybe Bennett heard rumors, maybe not.

I asked Don about the tone and nature of the 305 transmissions and he was ambivalent.  I suspect that he was BS-ing us.  Plus, he described himself being on an USAF training mission, not a Boeing gig.  Inconsistencies like this peppered his commentaries.

I think the Bohan report is highly suspect.  Don does, too.

Don didn't offer any opinion on DB Cooper even though I asked him.  My query was lot in a barrage of conversation and story-telling.

Uhhh, not to put too fine a point on it but I asked Don. Not you! Are you an ex-Boeing test pilot?

When I have a question about UFOs and MKULTRA MALDUM FORNAX I will ask you or AmmoZon or the other one...

Barada nikto Gort.


 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on May 16, 2014, 12:13:53 AM
I understand. Always happy to answer your questions about UFOs and MKULTRA.  If I am able, of course.

Until then!
Title: Re: Questions from Georger "tooooooooooooooooooo" Don Bennett
Post by: MarkBennett on May 16, 2014, 10:03:23 AM
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Also, there appears to be no record of KC ever jumping during deployment.  He might have been trained during WW2, but lots of personnel were trained who never deployed.  Additionally, KC's jumps were all static line jumps, a far different kind of exit from that of DBC.   As for Mr. Blevins, I think Georger has his number.   Georger has pulled-apart the KC myth that Blevins is desperately trying to hang onto.  The FBI knows its all bullshit.  I think Georger has pulled the final stop on Blevins, although Blevins will try a bit more.  He has nothing else to do with his life.  And that is painfully obvious.
That seems quite possible.  Reading Kenny's discharge (which was posted here) shows Kenny was deployed overseas on August 15, 1945, which coincides almost exactly with VJ Day.  The form also shows a medal for parachute jumping, but that could be training in prep for a possible Pacific invasion which never happened.

Just finished reading Bruce's interview with you and Sail. Questions:

After listening to an hour or more of the flight transmissions from 305, was there anything that stood out to you - anything about Cooper, anything about how the hijacking was being handled, ... ?

As far as you are concerned how big a 'secret' was it that the 727 could be jumped via the rear stairs? Do you really think knowing or realising that vulnerability required insider information or skills at the time?

What do you think about the Bohan report?

What was the scuttlebutt about the hijacking and Cooper after the fact, that you overheard? Anything noteworthy that you can recall?

 

 

My overall opinion of Don Bennett is that everything he says has to be taken with a grain of salt.  He just has too many stories.  Plus, he seems to be an active alcoholic; hence, stories take precedence over anything else.

As for secrets at Boeing, I think they did a thorough job of keeping their secret 727 tests confidential.  Maybe Bennett heard rumors, maybe not.

I asked Don about the tone and nature of the 305 transmissions and he was ambivalent.  I suspect that he was BS-ing us.  Plus, he described himself being on an USAF training mission, not a Boeing gig.  Inconsistencies like this peppered his commentaries.

I think the Bohan report is highly suspect.  Don does, too.

Don didn't offer any opinion on DB Cooper even though I asked him.  My query was lot in a barrage of conversation and story-telling.

Uhhh, not to put too fine a point on it but I asked Don. Not you! Are you an ex-Boeing test pilot?

When I have a question about UFOs and MKULTRA MALDUM FORNAX I will ask you or AmmoZon or the other one...

Barada nikto Gort.

Georger,
Did you direct the question to me?  Don's not on this site and I'm not related to him, nor do I know him.
Title: Re: Questions from Georger "tooooooooooooooooooo" Don Bennett
Post by: georger on May 16, 2014, 05:09:53 PM
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Also, there appears to be no record of KC ever jumping during deployment.  He might have been trained during WW2, but lots of personnel were trained who never deployed.  Additionally, KC's jumps were all static line jumps, a far different kind of exit from that of DBC.   As for Mr. Blevins, I think Georger has his number.   Georger has pulled-apart the KC myth that Blevins is desperately trying to hang onto.  The FBI knows its all bullshit.  I think Georger has pulled the final stop on Blevins, although Blevins will try a bit more.  He has nothing else to do with his life.  And that is painfully obvious.
That seems quite possible.  Reading Kenny's discharge (which was posted here) shows Kenny was deployed overseas on August 15, 1945, which coincides almost exactly with VJ Day.  The form also shows a medal for parachute jumping, but that could be training in prep for a possible Pacific invasion which never happened.

Just finished reading Bruce's interview with you and Sail. Questions:

After listening to an hour or more of the flight transmissions from 305, was there anything that stood out to you - anything about Cooper, anything about how the hijacking was being handled, ... ?

As far as you are concerned how big a 'secret' was it that the 727 could be jumped via the rear stairs? Do you really think knowing or realising that vulnerability required insider information or skills at the time?

What do you think about the Bohan report?

What was the scuttlebutt about the hijacking and Cooper after the fact, that you overheard? Anything noteworthy that you can recall?

 

 

My overall opinion of Don Bennett is that everything he says has to be taken with a grain of salt.  He just has too many stories.  Plus, he seems to be an active alcoholic; hence, stories take precedence over anything else.

As for secrets at Boeing, I think they did a thorough job of keeping their secret 727 tests confidential.  Maybe Bennett heard rumors, maybe not.

I asked Don about the tone and nature of the 305 transmissions and he was ambivalent.  I suspect that he was BS-ing us.  Plus, he described himself being on an USAF training mission, not a Boeing gig.  Inconsistencies like this peppered his commentaries.

I think the Bohan report is highly suspect.  Don does, too.

Don didn't offer any opinion on DB Cooper even though I asked him.  My query was lot in a barrage of conversation and story-telling.

Uhhh, not to put too fine a point on it but I asked Don. Not you! Are you an ex-Boeing test pilot?

When I have a question about UFOs and MKULTRA MALDUM FORNAX I will ask you or AmmoZon or the other one...

Barada nikto Gort.

Georger,
Did you direct the question to me?  Don's not on this site and I'm not related to him, nor do I know him.

Yes Mark, sorry. I have a horrendous cold and can't think straight - (the weather here has been horrendous for
weeks, very cold... I finally have succumbed). The question was for you.




Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 17, 2014, 02:50:32 PM
Ok, getting back to KC. can we conclude that it's possible that Lyle orchestrated the whole thing, possibly influencing the people Blevins spoke with? Carolyn Powell seems to have been deceptive twice. once claiming her boyfriend was arrested for attempted murder (exaggerated) and then by stating KC bought his house for cash. how much weight can you put on these people. then some 40 years later than can remember distinctively that KC stopped wearing a hair piece soon after the crime, and, ID'd a tie clip, but not the tie 40 + years later.

I couldn't tell you what type of jewelry my mom had 30/40 years ago, didn't everyone snoop around mom & dads room when they were away? my mom obviously had wigs. she had a wig box in the closet, but had other things in place of the wig itself. KC wore a black tie while at work. we have documentation of this. does this make it sound more convincing not to ID everything? If we can confirm the radio program did get Lyle to admit it was all BS. you have plenty of reason to believe a conspiracy happened. there is nothing that points to KC being anything other than a long time employee of Northwest airlines. we also have two different stories about the money find. one happened in the 90's, the other story is from the 2000's after the entire property was excavated (see photo) it's very possible someone stretched the truth about the time frame of when any type of money was found.


Again, this is fair questions about the suspect, not about trashing the person claiming all of this. it's not a court hearing where he has to be present.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on May 17, 2014, 04:39:06 PM
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Ok, getting back to KC. can we conclude that it's possible that Lyle orchestrated the whole thing, possibly influencing the people Blevins spoke with? Carolyn Powell seems to have been deceptive twice. once claiming her boyfriend was arrested for attempted murder (exaggerated) and then by stating KC bought his house for cash. how much weight can you put on these people. then some 40 years later than can remember distinctively that KC stopped wearing a hair piece soon after the crime, and, ID'd a tie clip, but not the tie 40 + years later.

I couldn't tell you what type of jewelry my mom had 30/40 years ago, didn't everyone snoop around mom & dads room when they were away? my mom obviously had wigs. she had a wig box in the closet, but had other things in place of the wig itself. KC wore a black tie while at work. we have documentation of this. does this make it sound more convincing not to ID everything? If we can confirm the radio program did get Lyle to admit it was all BS. you have plenty of reason to believe a conspiracy happened. there is nothing that points to KC being anything other than a long time employee of Northwest airlines. we also have two different stories about the money find. one happened in the 90's, the other story is from the 2000's after the entire property was excavated (see photo) it's very possible someone stretched the truth about the time frame of when any type of money was found.


Again, this is fair questions about the suspect, not about trashing the person claiming all of this. it's not a court hearing where he has to be present.

 Anything about KC and those involved in that debacle is dead horse, as far as Im concerned. Gray and Porteous collaborated with Gray writing the first article on Kenny. Porteous contacts Blevins for a "movie script" with every intention of doubling promotions (lead to the Decoded episode) but Gray for some reason is suddenly cut out of the loop. It's now Porteous and Blevins and Lyle on their own project. Evidently there were hard feelings on Gray's part; Gray expressed this to several people which is documented. Lyle, Blev, and Porteous shared the same goal - a movie and big bucks. Blev joins Dropzone to become a part of Cooperland (the Cooper Royalty, as Blev calls it) and immediately tangles with Sluggo, Snowmman, and others. The goal again is a movie, by any means, and we have seen that unfold over four long years under the Moderation of 'writer and former Disney Productions editor', Paul Quade!

It literally is a cartoon. And as Geoff calls it: "A pit of vipers".

Is Lyle behind it all? No. He could not possibly be. I think Lyle is just riding the wave and Blevins and Porteous are still in full control, in spite of what others  contend.  Any pretense that all of this is about the actual/factual life of one Kenneth Christiansen or that he actually DB Cooper, went out the window over three years ago, when it became clear Blevins was making this up out of whole cloth and traded discussion and research for personal attacks on anyone and everyone in his path.  He even alluded or claimed to have support in very high places, which turned out to be bald faced lies – eg. “Ive reviewed the Palmer report sent me by the Palmer family”.

Will the scheme work? Time will tell … if it’s worth people’s time following all of these machinations which have absolutely nothing to do with the DB Cooper case!

 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 17, 2014, 05:10:49 PM
He thinks that DZ is the holy Grail. to me it's old school. I'm an old school guy, but with a twist. he thinks when he see's 3,000 views on a comment, it's 3,000 views outside the thread. in reality, it's mainly the members looking in, not the public. they would turn there heads years ago on the thread.

I'm going to contact the station and see what proof we can get to help get a grip on what is really going on in the KC story.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on May 17, 2014, 05:26:42 PM
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He thinks that DZ is the holy Grail. to me it's old school. I'm an old school guy, but with a twist. he thinks when he see's 3,000 views on a comment, it's 3,000 views outside the thread. in reality, it's mainly the members looking in, not the public. they would turn there heads years ago on the thread.

I'm going to contact the station and see what proof we can get to help get a grip on what is really going on in the KC story.

Things like Dropzone thrive off a deeper problem - the lack of hard information about the DB Cooper case. Likewise the lack of leadership (civilian or FBI) to provide hard info and guidance. I guess that's why there are History Depts in Universities and at places like the Smithsonian, etc. I suggested years ago to Ckret that the Smithsonian be put in charge of the DB Cooper case!  I got no response.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 17, 2014, 05:34:20 PM
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He thinks that DZ is the holy Grail. to me it's old school. I'm an old school guy, but with a twist. he thinks when he see's 3,000 views on a comment, it's 3,000 views outside the thread. in reality, it's mainly the members looking in, not the public. they would turn there heads years ago on the thread.

I'm going to contact the station and see what proof we can get to help get a grip on what is really going on in the KC story.

Things like Dropzone thrive off a deeper problem - the lack of hard information about the DB Cooper case. Likewise the lack of leadership (civilian or FBI) to provide hard info and guidance. I guess that's why there are History Depts in Universities and at places like the Smithsonian, etc. I suggested years ago to Ckret that the Smithsonian be put in charge of the DB Cooper case!  I got no response.


Yep, history is nothing but an agreed upon lie, in lots of cases. nobody really has a clue what happened at the gunfight at the OK corral, or if Babe called his shot (I say no) hopefully we can maintain control and put some truth behind this case. it gets tiresome at points, but discussing it without arguing it works for me :)

Congrats by the way on post 1000 crowd roars, beer cans opening spewing all over the floor, total mayhem :)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on May 17, 2014, 05:46:50 PM
Georger says:
 Anything about KC and those involved in that debacle is dead horse, as far as Im concerned. Gray and Porteous collaborated with Gray writing the first article on Kenny. Porteous contacts Blevins for a "movie script" with every intention of doubling promotions (lead to the Decoded episode) but Gray for some reason is suddenly cut out of the loop. It's now Porteous and Blevins and Lyle on their own project. Evidently there were hard feelings on Gray's part; Gray expressed this to several people which is documented. Lyle, Blev, and Porteous shared the same goal - a movie and big bucks. Blev joins Dropzone to become a part of Cooperland (the Cooper Royalty, as Blev calls it) and immediately tangles with Sluggo, Snowmman, and others. The goal again is a movie, by any means, and we have seen that unfold over four long years under the Moderation of 'writer and former Disney Productions editor', Paul Quade!

It literally is a cartoon. And as Geoff calls it: "A pit of vipers".

Is Lyle behind it all? No. He could not possibly be. I think Lyle is just riding the wave and Blevins and Porteous are still in full control, in spite of what others  contend.  Any pretense that all of this is about the actual/factual life of one Kenneth Christiansen or that he actually DB Cooper, went out the window over three years ago, when it became clear Blevins was making this up out of whole cloth and traded discussion and research for personal attacks on anyone and everyone in his path.  He even alluded or claimed to have support in very high places, which turned out to be bald faced lies – eg. “Ive reviewed the Palmer report sent me by the Palmer family”.

Will the scheme work? Time will tell … if it’s worth people’s time following all of these machinations which have absolutely nothing to do with the DB Cooper case!


Bruce says:
I think you've nailed it, Georger. 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 17, 2014, 05:49:59 PM
someone want to contact Gray and see if he will discuss his views about KC? he only gives short responses to me, or is that typical of Gray?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on May 17, 2014, 11:50:19 PM
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Georger says:
 Anything about KC and those involved in that debacle is dead horse, as far as Im concerned. Gray and Porteous collaborated with Gray writing the first article on Kenny. Porteous contacts Blevins for a "movie script" with every intention of doubling promotions (lead to the Decoded episode) but Gray for some reason is suddenly cut out of the loop. It's now Porteous and Blevins and Lyle on their own project. Evidently there were hard feelings on Gray's part; Gray expressed this to several people which is documented. Lyle, Blev, and Porteous shared the same goal - a movie and big bucks. Blev joins Dropzone to become a part of Cooperland (the Cooper Royalty, as Blev calls it) and immediately tangles with Sluggo, Snowmman, and others. The goal again is a movie, by any means, and we have seen that unfold over four long years under the Moderation of 'writer and former Disney Productions editor', Paul Quade!

It literally is a cartoon. And as Geoff calls it: "A pit of vipers".

Is Lyle behind it all? No. He could not possibly be. I think Lyle is just riding the wave and Blevins and Porteous are still in full control, in spite of what others  contend.  Any pretense that all of this is about the actual/factual life of one Kenneth Christiansen or that he actually DB Cooper, went out the window over three years ago, when it became clear Blevins was making this up out of whole cloth and traded discussion and research for personal attacks on anyone and everyone in his path.  He even alluded or claimed to have support in very high places, which turned out to be bald faced lies – eg. “Ive reviewed the Palmer report sent me by the Palmer family”.

Will the scheme work? Time will tell … if it’s worth people’s time following all of these machinations which have absolutely nothing to do with the DB Cooper case!

Bruce says:
I think you've nailed it, Georger. 


I would love to see those lab reports on the seats, as I'm sure would Tom and others. I should have pressed Ckret about this when I had the chance. Oh well . . .
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on May 17, 2014, 11:53:04 PM
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someone want to contact Gray and see if he will discuss his views about KC? he only gives short responses to me, or is that typical of Gray?

I will give you his tele numbers, or Galen can if he has them. Your choice but it's worth a try. I frankly dont have the faintest idea what he would say if he agrees to speak. I wont even speculate on this but the numbers are yours if you want them ... but for your eyes only. It’s worth a try – your call…

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 18, 2014, 12:00:19 AM
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someone want to contact Gray and see if he will discuss his views about KC? he only gives short responses to me, or is that typical of Gray?

I will give you his tele numbers, or Galen can if he has them. Your choice but it's worth a try. I frankly dont have the faintest idea what he would say if he agrees to speak. I wont even speculate on this but the numbers are yours if you want them ... but for your eyes only. It’s worth a try – your call…

I'll give it a shot. I don't know how much trust he has in me. I've spoken with him (email) about Marla, Paul, and a few other subjects. I sent him this link, well the old one, he never responded back. I would always get a reply within an hour or two...
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 18, 2014, 05:25:49 PM
                                                                                Brother Against Brother

Seems soon after Lyle Christensen claimed his brother was Cooper, a similar story pops up in 2008.

(http://media.komonews.com/images/080327_db_cooper_pics.jpg)


http://www.komonews.com/news/local/17070041.html


Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on May 18, 2014, 08:16:41 PM
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He thinks that DZ is the holy Grail. to me it's old school. I'm an old school guy, but with a twist. he thinks when he see's 3,000 views on a comment, it's 3,000 views outside the thread. in reality, it's mainly the members looking in, not the public. they would turn there heads years ago on the thread.

I'm going to contact the station and see what proof we can get to help get a grip on what is really going on in the KC story.

SHUTTER:    Why do you keep mentioning KC as he does not fit the identification of DB Cooper ? KC is way too short at 5 ft 8 in and DB is 6 ft tall. You are doing the same thing as Blevins by even mentioning KC as he does not fit the crime and promoting KC as a suspect only promotes Blevins Book which does not fit the Cooper case either.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 18, 2014, 08:41:17 PM
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He thinks that DZ is the holy Grail. to me it's old school. I'm an old school guy, but with a twist. he thinks when he see's 3,000 views on a comment, it's 3,000 views outside the thread. in reality, it's mainly the members looking in, not the public. they would turn there heads years ago on the thread.

I'm going to contact the station and see what proof we can get to help get a grip on what is really going on in the KC story.

SHUTTER:    Why do you keep mentioning KC as he does not fit the identification of DB Cooper ? KC is way too short at 5 ft 8 in and DB is 6 ft tall. You are doing the same thing as Blevins by even mentioning KC as he does not fit the crime and promoting KC as a suspect only promotes Blevins Book which does not fit the Cooper case either.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com


Well, lets call it 'record keeping" I don't believe he was anything other than an employee for NWA. it will leave a trail of the position, or thoughts of KC  without having anyone counter with a long strung out version of his beliefs. I like to show the real thoughts about KC, rather than hearing over, and over he bought his house for cash, and the lot next to it for $10, expensive coin/stamp collection that never surfaced etc. unfortunately KC is a part of the suspect list, closed, or not. it's a less skewed look at him. regardless of what Mr. Blevins claims. I like to hear points from other's without having to start a ten page bitch fest as it's done on DZ. I would also like to get the record straight about the whole thing. the best way to do it, is to investigate it properly. the more we prove. the less it will exist. the long short of it all will be better for all involved in DB Cooper conquest. :)

to answer your question of it being the same as what Blevins does...I think not. I'm looking for actual truth, not scripts, books, views, popularity etc.

"KC is way too short at 5 ft 8 in and DB is 6 ft tall."
D.B. Cooper is believed to be between 5' 10" & 6' not 6 feet exactly.

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on May 18, 2014, 09:01:35 PM
Shutter.    Tina Mucklow the Flight Attendant was 5 ft 8 in tall and had to look up to see DB Coopers eyes. The shorter identification (less than 6 ft) is a bogus thought from Gray/Blevins to try to match KC's 5 ft 8 in actual height. It is not a fact and should be ignored. KC is just tooooo short. Forget him and please don't waist any more of our time here.
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 18, 2014, 09:17:10 PM
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Shutter.    Tina Mucklow the Flight Attendant was 5 ft 8 in tall and had to look up to see DB Coopers eyes. The shorter identification (less than 6 ft) is a bogus thought from Gray/Blevins to try to match KC's 5 ft 8 in actual height. It is not a fact and should be ignored. KC is just tooooo short. Forget him and please don't waist any more of our time here.
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw@aol.com


I agree Sail, the height is wrong, it's not wasting anyone's time here. actually several are interested in collecting records of proof to help clear the whole mess up. we can't just shut things out. I understand your aggravation, but it's better to clear it up, or continue to hear about it from other sources. the topic comes and goes. it doesn't tie up anything. if you would like to change the subject, it's not a problem, but it can't be ignored simply because KC is not considered a suspect. lots of people think differently, so when and if they come here. actual proof will be recorded that is possibly being portrayed differently somewhere else.

Shutter.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 28, 2014, 03:15:28 PM
Many people claim the FBI does nothing. they have to follow any leads in a case. If, lets say, a PDF was sent to them. they would certainly follow up on it. if you don't hear anything, this typically means a dead end followed the report!

Ayn Dietrich,from the FBI said this:

"Being an open but not active case, we respond to every report or lead. Our case agent will check them out and determine whether they're credible. We're not out there combing for more evidence but we've kept it open in the belief that there could be something out there. The money has surfaced before and perhaps more will surface."

She goes on to say this:

She insists all the suspects still being touted by Cooper sleuths have been ruled out — either because they don't match the DNA or fingerprints they have on file, or because the descriptions just don't match up. But then she opens up with something new — and this is where the latest evidence revealed this weekend comes from:


http://jalopnik.com/5826512/the-new-evidence-in-the-hunt-for-db-cooper
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on May 28, 2014, 03:51:23 PM
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Many people claim the FBI does nothing. they have to follow any leads in a case. If, lets say, a PDF was sent to them. they would certainly follow up on it. if you don't hear anything, this typically means a dead end followed the report!

Ayn Dietrich,from the FBI said this:

"Being an open but not active case, we respond to every report or lead. Our case agent will check them out and determine whether they're credible. We're not out there combing for more evidence but we've kept it open in the belief that there could be something out there. The money has surfaced before and perhaps more will surface."

She goes on to say this:

She insists all the suspects still being touted by Cooper sleuths have been ruled out — either because they don't match the DNA or fingerprints they have on file, or because the descriptions just don't match up. But then she opens up with something new — and this is where the latest evidence revealed this weekend comes from:


http://jalopnik.com/5826512/the-new-evidence-in-the-hunt-for-db-cooper

Is there a reference for when and where Ayn Dietrich said this?  A LOT of people seem to have missed this?

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 28, 2014, 03:55:15 PM
It doesn't show a date on it?..it was from an interview... "Hannaford recently met with Dietrich, who told him:" Alex Hannaford,


It appears to be from 2002. it states 8 years after KC's death in 1994..."Another suspect is Kenny Christiansen, a former paratrooper who died in 1994. Eight years ago," was Lyle around in 2002?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 28, 2014, 04:24:53 PM
Alex Hannafords profile below.

(https://pressfolios-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/20130323-2343-2-2507/LOWRES_Alex_Crop_Color_thumb.jpg)
Alex Hannaford
Independent Journalist
Austin, Texas

http://alexhannaford.pressfolios.com/
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on May 28, 2014, 04:27:22 PM
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It doesn't show a date on it?..it was from an interview... "Hannaford recently met with Dietrich, who told him:" Alex Hannaford,


It appears to be from 2002. it states 8 years after KC's death in 1994...

Another Peter told Paul told Mary ....  Cooperland is full of this.

The whole world seems to be wallowing now.





 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 28, 2014, 04:39:14 PM
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It doesn't show a date on it?..it was from an interview... "Hannaford recently met with Dietrich, who told him:" Alex Hannaford,


It appears to be from 2002. it states 8 years after KC's death in 1994...

Another Peter told Paul told Mary ....  Cooperland is full of this.

The whole world seems to be wallowing now.


I posted on your post...oops.

Dietrich has mentioned before that KC was not a suspect. I see now it must be 2011. she talks about Marla's case just before it went public.

"You're the first to know this, but we do actually have a new suspect we're looking at. And it comes from a credible lead who came to our attention recently via a law enforcement colleague." I'm stunned. Dietrich says she can't tell me much more, but like all the Cooper sleuths I've met over the past few days, I too have become a little obsessed with the case. "The credible lead is somebody whose possible connection to the hijacker is strong," she says. "And the suspect is not a name that's come up before." Dietrich says agents have sent an item that belongs to him for testing at the forensics lab in Quantico, Virginia. "We're hoping there are fingerprints they can take off of it," she says. "It would be a significant lead. And this is looking like our most promising one to date."

It's a pending investigation, and she can't tell me any more. I push her to see if she can say whether the suspect is still alive. "Generally, the large majority of subjects we look into now are already deceased based on the timing of this," she says. I follow up with Dietrich a week after my visit, but she says it could be some time before the FBI gets the results back.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 28, 2014, 05:09:42 PM
You should like this one G....

http://gawker.com/314627/is-the-d-b-cooper-case-closed-locals-say-eh

We've been waiting all week for word of the success or failure of New York magazine's sort-of maybe kinda identification of D. B. Cooper—who has become something of an American myth since he hijacked a Northwest plane in 1971 and made off with $200,000. So far we've gotten not much: "Bonney Lake residents doubt neighbor was D. B. Cooper," says the AP today. Meh. The suspect's brother, Lyle Christiansen of Minnesota, really really wanted Nora Ephron to direct the movie but of course she didn't even return his letters. (Just like that Eminem song Stan.) But how reliable a narrator is Lyle? In order to send Ephron the letter, he paid a gumshoe $495 to find her address. Really, how can one rely on the word of a man who can't figure out how Whitepages.com works?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on May 28, 2014, 05:26:36 PM
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You should like this one G....

http://gawker.com/314627/is-the-d-b-cooper-case-closed-locals-say-eh

We've been waiting all week for word of the success or failure of New York magazine's sort-of maybe kinda identification of D. B. Cooper—who has become something of an American myth since he hijacked a Northwest plane in 1971 and made off with $200,000. So far we've gotten not much: "Bonney Lake residents doubt neighbor was D. B. Cooper," says the AP today. Meh. The suspect's brother, Lyle Christiansen of Minnesota, really really wanted Nora Ephron to direct the movie but of course she didn't even return his letters. (Just like that Eminem song Stan.) But how reliable a narrator is Lyle? In order to send Ephron the letter, he paid a gumshoe $495 to find her address. Really, how can one rely on the word of a man who can't figure out how Whitepages.com works?

What I not anointed enough to comprehend is WHY Gray wrote the article on KC in the first place _ unless it was just one more opportunity for exploitation on a slow news day? The same for Pasternak on Duane Weber! These guys must have one helluva lot of time on their hands with nothing better to do!

Jesus wept!
 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 28, 2014, 05:31:37 PM
well, it seems Lyle tried to script his idea first. once that failed he tried to push him as a suspect through Skippy, and the FBI. this would give him the publicity he was looking for in order to grab the attention of "Hollywood" or screen writers. he used Skipp to gain attention in the case it appears to me? I'm constantly reading on site after site about Lyle being "creative" this appears to be as "creative" as one can get. they ruled KC out in 2007. here we are in 2014.....

"He's not a viable suspect," FBI spokeswoman Robbie Burroughs said.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on May 28, 2014, 10:07:18 PM
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You should like this one G....

http://gawker.com/314627/is-the-d-b-cooper-case-closed-locals-say-eh

We've been waiting all week for word of the success or failure of New York magazine's sort-of maybe kinda identification of D. B. Cooper—who has become something of an American myth since he hijacked a Northwest plane in 1971 and made off with $200,000. So far we've gotten not much: "Bonney Lake residents doubt neighbor was D. B. Cooper," says the AP today. Meh. The suspect's brother, Lyle Christiansen of Minnesota, really really wanted Nora Ephron to direct the movie but of course she didn't even return his letters. (Just like that Eminem song Stan.) But how reliable a narrator is Lyle? In order to send Ephron the letter, he paid a gumshoe $495 to find her address. Really, how can one rely on the word of a man who can't figure out how Whitepages.com works?

What I not anointed enough to comprehend is WHY Gray wrote the article on KC in the first place _ unless it was just one more opportunity for exploitation on a slow news day? The same for Pasternak on Duane Weber! These guys must have one helluva lot of time on their hands with nothing better to do!

Jesus wept!

Why did Gray write the article?  Maybe it was just a good story, and someone would pay him to write it.

When he wrote the article, it was about Kenny.  By the time, he wrote his book, it was about four suspects -- Kenny, Barb, McCoy and Duane.  I asked him at last year's symposium who his current preferred suspect was and he said he was interested in Peterson.

He obviously is still interested in the topic -- he did come back for the 2013 symposium, but he doesn't follow it as closely as most of us do.   When Vicki met him at that symposium, Gray didn't know who Mel Wilson was.  That was surprising since Mel Wilson was brought up at the 2011 symposium, which Gray hosted.

Gray was coy on what he really thinks.  He seemed to have kept in touch with Carr and that might be why he doesn't feel like he should speculate.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on May 28, 2014, 10:24:51 PM
sometimes holding back doesn't work. I think most of the time the cards should be put on the table. it's the only way to resolve an issue.

Gray might be corporatized now. the lights on, but nobody is home  8)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 09, 2014, 10:03:01 AM
Well, it seems the PDF on KC still remains inaccurate! This was taken from his new section on Cooper.

6) She testified that Christiansen not only purchased the house in Bonney Lake and the adjoining lot for
cash
, but also a large wooded lot behind what is now the Bonney Lake Safeway. Tyner added that
Christiansen told her he bought this wooded lot after he bought the house, which means it was done
post-hijacking. (We already know that Christiansen later made a great deal of money selling off the
trees on that lot)
7) After Christiansen’s death, she and her husband received the house, but sold it shortly after probate
cleared. They then moved to Nevada, and Carolyn divorced him. She also stated that her ex-husband
Robin Powell was once charged with attempted murder on his own mother, and when he drinks he
sometimes becomes violent. ‘He put me into the hospital more than once,’ she says.

He fails to check records which is his biggest mistake. Robin Powell was never charged with attempted murder. he has other assault charges, but this shows exaggeration. He also still has the photo of the adjoining lot for $10. he fails to note that the large sum of money at the ending of KC's life came from the large lot he purchased prior to 1971. the acres sold for $17,000 each and the lot had over a dozen acres. I believe the records indicate over $300,000, so, the question would be, where is the remaining cash? he had a little over $200,000 at the time of his death. Carolyn Powell also stated KC purchased his house in cash. so, basically you can rule Carolyn Powell out as trustworthy!

He goes on to continue inaccurate information with this statement...

"We can definitely prove four things: That Christiansen and Geestman disappeared over the week of the
hijacking, that Christiansen was unhappy with both his financial situation and the airline, that he knew how
to use a parachute, and that he went through at least $21,000 in cash during an eight-month period following
the hijacking. That figure does not include a large piece of land behind the Bonney Lake Safeway that
Carolyn Tyner testified Christiansen purchased after the date of the hijacking."

He still claims the house was bought for cash at a value of $16,500. records indicate a different number. the $5,000 has not been proven by any means other than someone stating this as fact. words are hardly facts. no receipts, no statements of deposit's. no record of anything. he didn't check local records to see if a house was even purchased in this time period. If someone like this was on a jury, you would be up the river quick based on hearsay.

Georger brought up a very good point. what did KC's voice sound like? Lyle sounds very soft spoken. I have an older brother, and we both sound similar in speech. could KC really be that tough?

For the record, nobody "testified" to anything. that term is basically taken out on context by people, it makes it sound like a court hearing occurred. he seems to view things differently than others. he goes from worse case, and directly into best case. nothing in between. he fails to notice this even while confronting him. his logic quickly gets skewed into what he thinks is a fact when actually it's just something someone said. he has convinced himself that this is all accurate, and true. therefor it should be the best known information given on what he thinks is solid proof.

when investigating a story like this you need to check all records off the people you talk with, down to the property records to validate a timeline, or validate any purchases at any given time. you should check the local records division, libraries, State archive records, County Court, DMV records, real estate records, criminal background etc. If you fail to do the above. then you have zero rights to call anything a fact. taking shortcuts through this will be noticed, and credibility come into question. sadly, this is what he sent the FBI. they can verify things a lot quicker than the average Joe. I'll guess they found all the inconsistencies in his findings, or what he refers to as facts, and quickly dismissed his PDF. he is quick to blame everyone else for trying to discredit KC. he fails again to notice that just about every person in the Cooper circle have dismissed him. he strives on "the public" which in most cases will do a quick Wiki search, and then agree with what they just read by not knowing the actual facts of the case.

Records of this need to be shown here. this will help people who have questions about this suspect without skewing everything out of form with constant bickering that leads nowhere! it's also my opinion that the person who wrote this document is not being honest with the public by allowing all the inaccuracies to remain.

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on June 09, 2014, 03:59:17 PM
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Well, it seems the PDF on KC still remains inaccurate! This was taken from his new section on Cooper.

6) She testified that Christiansen not only purchased the house in Bonney Lake and the adjoining lot for
cash
, but also a large wooded lot behind what is now the Bonney Lake Safeway. Tyner added that
Christiansen told her he bought this wooded lot after he bought the house, which means it was done
post-hijacking. (We already know that Christiansen later made a great deal of money selling off the
trees on that lot)
7) After Christiansen’s death, she and her husband received the house, but sold it shortly after probate
cleared. They then moved to Nevada, and Carolyn divorced him. She also stated that her ex-husband
Robin Powell was once charged with attempted murder on his own mother, and when he drinks he
sometimes becomes violent. ‘He put me into the hospital more than once,’ she says.

He fails to check records which is his biggest mistake. Robin Powell was never charged with attempted murder. he has other assault charges, but this shows exaggeration. He also still has the photo of the adjoining lot for $10. he fails to note that the large sum of money at the ending of KC's life came from the large lot he purchased prior to 1971. the acres sold for $17,000 each and the lot had over a dozen acres. I believe the records indicate over $300,000, so, the question would be, where is the remaining cash? he had a little over $200,000 at the time of his death. Carolyn Powell also stated KC purchased his house in cash. so, basically you can rule Carolyn Powell out as trustworthy!

He goes on to continue inaccurate information with this statement...

"We can definitely prove four things: That Christiansen and Geestman disappeared over the week of the
hijacking, that Christiansen was unhappy with both his financial situation and the airline, that he knew how
to use a parachute, and that he went through at least $21,000 in cash during an eight-month period following
the hijacking. That figure does not include a large piece of land behind the Bonney Lake Safeway that
Carolyn Tyner testified Christiansen purchased after the date of the hijacking."

He still claims the house was bought for cash at a value of $16,500. records indicate a different number. the $5,000 has not been proven by any means other than someone stating this as fact. words are hardly facts. no receipts, no statements of deposit's. no record of anything. he didn't check local records to see if a house was even purchased in this time period. If someone like this was on a jury, you would be up the river quick based on hearsay.

Georger brought up a very good point. what did KC's voice sound like? Lyle sounds very soft spoken. I have an older brother, and we both sound similar in speech. could KC really be that tough?

For the record, nobody "testified" to anything. that term is basically taken out on context by people, it makes it sound like a court hearing occurred. he seems to view things differently than others. he goes from worse case, and directly into best case. nothing in between. he fails to notice this even while confronting him. his logic quickly gets skewed into what he thinks is a fact when actually it's just something someone said. he has convinced himself that this is all accurate, and true. therefor it should be the best known information given on what he thinks is solid proof.

when investigating a story like this you need to check all records off the people you talk with, down to the property records to validate a timeline, or validate any purchases at any given time. you should check the local records division, libraries, State archive records, County Court, DMV records, real estate records, criminal background etc. If you fail to do the above. then you have zero rights to call anything a fact. taking shortcuts through this will be noticed, and credibility come into question. sadly, this is what he sent the FBI. they can verify things a lot quicker than the average Joe. I'll guess they found all the inconsistencies in his findings, or what he refers to as facts, and quickly dismissed his PDF. he is quick to blame everyone else for trying to discredit KC. he fails again to notice that just about every person in the Cooper circle have dismissed him. he strives on "the public" which in most cases will do a quick Wiki search, and then agree with what they just read by not knowing the actual facts of the case.

Records of this need to be shown here. this will help people who have questions about this suspect without skewing everything out of form with constant bickering that leads nowhere! it's also my opinion that the person who wrote this document is not being honest with the public by allowing all the inaccuracies to remain.

Once the author moved into the mainstream where his allegations/claims could be examined his work turned out to be deeply flawed on very basic points! This stunning since the socalled professionals the author often cites at Decoded (the tv show) were relying on the authenticity of the author's alleged facts! The author fed Decoded false facts, then turns around and cite's the pro's at Decoded as further proof - of what? It's circular mumbo-jumbo! The author deceived the pros at Decoded then turns around and cites the pros he deceived as proof! The only thing it proves is that the author deals in DECEPTION!

Some people are generous and say the author just didn't understand, or mistakenly lacked crucial facts. Isn;t it the job of an author/researcher to get the correct facts, in the first place? Especially if he is representing his work to the world and the FBI as "the gospel" ? Then he goes forward ignoring everyone and everything that has been proved wrong, and he continues the farce for three more years!! That is something Myers & Dvorak didn't even do! Only one other candidate salesman falls into that category - the person making claims for Duane Weber.
 
Now research be damned, it's a movie script, and to hell with the truth of anything! It was a movie script Lyle wanted in the first place!

What goes around, comes around.


 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 09, 2014, 04:55:32 PM
Decoded is really not that bad of a show, as long as you use caution. it's not considered any type of Historical research venue. it's purpose is to attract viewers. If the show itself did any real research they would have found the same records we did, even more if they went to the Clerks office. they relied on what people told them. right out of the gate. Lyle told them the briefcase was Kenny's. they gave an illusion that it could be the briefcase used in the crime. they failed to research the records properly to give another opinion of where the money came from in the first place.

The public can be very gullible falling into traps such as these. I was in the paranormal world for a while. I had to argue with people believing some of the videos showing ghost activity. they would believe almost anything on camera. this includes being attacked on camera, a vacuum cleaner cleaning a floor, a microwave turning on & off by itself. the owners of these videos would use the very same tactics seen on DZ. they try and reverse things onto the person questioning the videos's. they try and to discredit anyway they can in order to make you stop. this is nothing new to me. the best line is, you can't prove he wasn't Cooper. I don't have a problem with anyone trying to prove who Cooper was. I have a problem with the approach that some of them use to continue forward.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 09, 2014, 05:13:26 PM
Getting back to the gullible. Television always tells the truth right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b9Nz7Oo_kE
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on June 09, 2014, 06:23:46 PM
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Decoded is really not that bad of a show, as long as you use caution. it's not considered any type of Historical research venue. it's purpose is to attract viewers. If the show itself did any real research they would have found the same records we did, even more if they went to the Clerks office. they relied on what people told them. right out of the gate. Lyle told them the briefcase was Kenny's. they gave an illusion that it could be the briefcase used in the crime. they failed to research the records properly to give another opinion of where the money came from in the first place.

The public can be very gullible falling into traps such as these. I was in the paranormal world for a while. I had to argue with people believing some of the videos showing ghost activity. they would believe almost anything on camera. this includes being attacked on camera, a vacuum cleaner cleaning a floor, a microwave turning on & off by itself. the owners of these videos would use the very same tactics seen on DZ. they try and reverse things onto the person questioning the videos's. they try and to discredit anyway they can in order to make you stop. this is nothing new to me. the best line is, you can't prove he wasn't Cooper. I don't have a problem with anyone trying to prove who Cooper was. I have a problem with the approach that some of them use to continue forward.

When I was young I tried to argue the paranormals and other cult people back into mainstream reality but I got nowhere. Some of these peopleeven tried to convince me I had special powers; if only I would practice! I never fell for that but began reading studies of cults, then took a psych class where cult practices were discussed, and it suddenly became obvious some personality types cannot be talked back (or even scared back!), into a different mind set. That seemed ridiculous to me. I plain didn't believe that! Then I ran into a very experienced clinician who had an MD in psychiatry and I took his class. Wow! It was a wake up call for me. Not only are there some personality types who cannot be 'called back', there are some who actually take defeat (even jail time!) as a positive reinforcement of their 'cult-conspiracy' beliefs/doctrines. These people always rally, rebuild, sometimes go deeper than they were,
and that is the first time I heard the clinical term 'socio-affective disorder'. It is deep seated and probably has a
neurological component(s)! These people actually burn themselves on a stove multiple times, just to prove they have discovered some special means of control and power over others, not available to the normal population! The pain they see as a predictable but small price to pay for having special power over themselves in the social world they otherwise feel inferior in. The syndrome is real. The US  Dictionary of Occupational Titles even recognises the condition and makes use of it in predicting job success in certain occupations. I wont name those occupations!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 09, 2014, 06:38:25 PM
Yep, these people will go the distance believing this stuff. all of this reminds me of politics. you just go round and round with these people. here is a video I made years ago. this guy was trying to claim a demon was talking on his video's. I recorded several seconds of the part I caught him with. he actually used his own voice from another ghost video. this is also the video the DMCA took down from me. I countered using the Fair Use" clause, and had the video restored.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqRywMhFiOk
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on June 09, 2014, 11:00:35 PM
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Well, it seems the PDF on KC still remains inaccurate! This was taken from his new section on Cooper.


The thing most stunning to me is all of these financial transactions of Kenny is how so much of the information is readily available has NEVER been checked.  I've meant to go down there to Pierce County and look.  I've recently changed jobs, so I haven't had the time to take off and look myself.  Plus, it could take me a while since I don't know what to look for or how to go about it.

What would I look for?  Here is what I would expect.

1)  Property sales records of purchases by Kenny Christiansen and Helen Jones from 1971-1972.
2)  Mortgages or liens?
a)  IF Kenny lent Helen Jones money, is there a mortgage for that?   A recorded note?
b) Would there be a reconveyance if she paid him back.
c)  If Kenny assumed a mortgage for half of his purchase, might there be a recorded loan for the other half?  Maybe from the sellers?  If he bought the other half on a real estate contract, would that be recorded?
3) Tax records indicating sales prices on the properties?

The most curious item would be the alleged $5000 loan to Helen Jones.  If someone told me something like that, that would pique my interest.  Did someone I didn't know come over to my house and give me $5000 in a paper sack, with no note, no security, no mortgage?  And, how does a single woman with three or four kids pay that amount of money back in two years.  It's shocking that anyone would accept a story like that on face value.

If I ever have a day off that I can get down to Tacoma, I might do some searching on the old microfilm records.


Finally, Shutter and Georger on your comments on what people believe to be true for no reason at all -- It seems to apply to politics, what foods are healthy, which are harmful, global warming, pretty much everything.  People just believe things without any real basis for doing so.  My favorite quote on that comes from Will Rogers:

"It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so. "
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 10, 2014, 12:38:50 AM
You won't find any legal documents on the loan I'm guessing. we need to establish a home was purchased in that time frame (records).
The complete background on the house, mainly when, who purchased it, and of course the finance part of it. how long did the previous
owner have the house. we can discuss this in detail if we are going to go to the Clerks office.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on June 10, 2014, 01:02:29 AM
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Well, it seems the PDF on KC still remains inaccurate! This was taken from his new section on Cooper.


The thing most stunning to me is all of these financial transactions of Kenny is how so much of the information is readily available has NEVER been checked.  I've meant to go down there to Pierce County and look.  I've recently changed jobs, so I haven't had the time to take off and look myself.  Plus, it could take me a while since I don't know what to look for or how to go about it.

What would I look for?  Here is what I would expect.

1)  Property sales records of purchases by Kenny Christiansen and Helen Jones from 1971-1972.
2)  Mortgages or liens?
a)  IF Kenny lent Helen Jones money, is there a mortgage for that?   A recorded note?
b) Would there be a reconveyance if she paid him back.
c)  If Kenny assumed a mortgage for half of his purchase, might there be a recorded loan for the other half?  Maybe from the sellers?  If he bought the other half on a real estate contract, would that be recorded?
3) Tax records indicating sales prices on the properties?

The most curious item would be the alleged $5000 loan to Helen Jones.  If someone told me something like that, that would pique my interest.  Did someone I didn't know come over to my house and give me $5000 in a paper sack, with no note, no security, no mortgage?  And, how does a single woman with three or four kids pay that amount of money back in two years.  It's shocking that anyone would accept a story like that on face value.

If I ever have a day off that I can get down to Tacoma, I might do some searching on the old microfilm records.


Finally, Shutter and Georger on your comments on what people believe to be true for no reason at all -- It seems to apply to politics, what foods are healthy, which are harmful, global warming, pretty much everything.  People just believe things without any real basis for doing so.  My favorite quote on that comes from Will Rogers:

"It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so. "

That's a great quote. If you ever do go looking for records, good luck. The whole thing could add up to a tempest in a teapot, but oh what great drama. These people could have lived a hum-drum life but from inside it may have been quite exciting and serious.

I received a video today I wish you could all see. I may try to get it to Shutter so he can share it, somehow. It was produced by professionals in our parent company, using a three year old as the central actor. It is unreal! It features this kid .... an extra bright and lovable little three year old! The quote on the photo is almost verbatum!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on June 10, 2014, 01:07:26 AM
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You won't find any legal documents on the loan I'm guessing. we need to establish a home was purchased in that time frame (records).
The complete background on the house, mainly when, who purchased it, and of course the finance part of it. how long did the previous
owner have the house. we can discuss this in detail if we are going to go to the Clerks office.

Plus, I keep getting the name wrong...It's Dawn Androsko who borrowed the money, not Helen Jones.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 10, 2014, 06:30:41 AM
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You won't find any legal documents on the loan I'm guessing. we need to establish a home was purchased in that time frame (records).
The complete background on the house, mainly when, who purchased it, and of course the finance part of it. how long did the previous
owner have the house. we can discuss this in detail if we are going to go to the Clerks office.

Plus, I keep getting the name wrong...It's Dawn Androsko who borrowed the money, not Helen Jones.

Well, unfortunately it appears something like verifying the records is needed due to "the honesty clause". I've read to many times where he has claimed he had hard evidence, or as written a couple posts back. "We can definitely prove four things". he has zero proof $21,000 was spent on buying two homes, and loaning large sums of money. the records online just don't go that far back. it might cost about $20 or so. I was quoted $10 per search on the phone to the Clerks office. the house seems to have been purchased for $14,000 according to tax records, so just the sales would be fine. The mortgage was $16.00 a month :) according to the mortgage papers. I think he just let it ride over the years.

I believe he is basing this on $16,500 for the house, and $5,000 for the loan to give his quote of  "at least $21,000 in cash during an eight-month period"

Hopefully this could be done before August 9th?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on June 10, 2014, 09:49:09 AM
Maybe....I might see if I can take off July 3 and go down there.  I'm not sure what to expect on August 9.   To be honest, if there really were any new proof unearthed, there's no reason it wouldn't have been posted.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 10, 2014, 09:56:56 AM
what could possibly be added to make KC a suspect? even throwing around cash is nothing. he doesn't fit the profile. it's a last minute bluff. I didn't even realize Cooper was a "biz". kind of proves the reason don't it? If it was anything of value, it would of been turned over to the Seattle FBI...

Smoke and mirrors is a metaphor for a deceptive, fraudulent or insubstantial explanation or description. The source of the name is based on magicians' illusions, where magicians make objects appear or disappear by extending or retracting mirrors amid a distracting burst of smoke. The expression may have a connotation of virtuosity or cleverness in carrying out such a deception.

one can easily use this technique to bring a story about anything. as long as you run with the basic facts you can run with this side railing bits a pieces that are hard to figure out, or explain. the word "he could of" pops up far to often in this case.

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on June 10, 2014, 02:06:32 PM
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what could possibly be added to make KC a suspect? even throwing around cash is nothing. he doesn't fit the profile. it's a last minute bluff. I didn't even realize Cooper was a "biz". kind of proves the reason don't it? If it was anything of value, it would of been turned over to the Seattle FBI...

Smoke and mirrors is a metaphor for a deceptive, fraudulent or insubstantial explanation or description. The source of the name is based on magicians' illusions, where magicians make objects appear or disappear by extending or retracting mirrors amid a distracting burst of smoke. The expression may have a connotation of virtuosity or cleverness in carrying out such a deception.

one can easily use this technique to bring a story about anything. as long as you run with the basic facts you can run with this side railing bits a pieces that are hard to figure out, or explain. the word "he could of" pops up far to often in this case.

Guys, if Galen is right, this whole thing has been about a movie script from the start. Galen seems to think Porteous didn't even think Kenny was a viable candidate.  And if Galen is correct, what Porteous and Gray thought about Kenny, based on their research, is not fit to publish here but might be stuff for a filing with LE even though KC is dead! The question in my mind is what kind of movie script. I have no doubt this started as an attempt to make KC look like a 'viable' Cooper candidate based on a few socalled facts. Once those facts collapsed the author moved quickly but grudgingly to saying 'I can't prove Kenny was Cooper'. And once that degenerated then it became a work of admitted fiction he now peddles. It's a movie script and nothing but a movie script, from the start. There may actually be facts out there somewhere which make it impossible Kenny could have been Cooper! Those are the facts if they exist, that would close this charade down.     

If it could be proved that Kenny was at a stag party the night of 11-24-71, well then the charade is over.

Moreover, Geestman may know where Kenny was the day of 11-24-71! And the author has gone to great lengths to label Geestman (and "that woman") both LIARS ... in anticipation of something Geestman knows but hasn't said? The author has gone to great lengths to label Geestman a liar no matter what Geestman says! Geestman may stand between the author and Kenny regarding whatever the truth is! It may be a truth the author does not want to hear.   
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 10, 2014, 02:10:20 PM
Another error is has which I believe smokin pointed out was the warranty deed he thinks is the lot behind Kenny's house. it's not, it the warranty for the property the house is on. the photo shows the similarities that prove this.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 10, 2014, 02:30:04 PM
"Guys, if Galen is right"

That's why I pointed out on DZ that neither has shown any proof. then all of the sudden the book is being pulled, and he is out of the "Cooper biz"



A warranty deed is a document that transfers the title to a property from the seller to the buyer. It protects the buyer from the chance that someone will come along and lay claim to the property by saying the seller had no right to sell it. A statutory warrant deed is an abbreviated version of a warranty deed written in accordance with state law.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on June 10, 2014, 02:39:49 PM
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"Guys, if Galen is right"

That's why I pointed out on DZ that neither has shown any proof. then all of the sudden the book is being pulled, and he is out of the "Cooper biz"

The author acts like Geestman really knows something! He has labeled Geestman a LIAR in advance. On the one hand he wants to use Geestman - on the other hand he has nullified Geestman in advance in case Geestman would say 'Kenny and I were somewhere else'. The author then gets to keep he claims.

All of the people who knew Kenny could stand between the author and a viable movie script, especially Geestman!
The truth of Kenny may be 180 degrees away from where the author wants Kenny to be, and that may be the whole reason for the author's extreme angst over Geestman. Remember, it was Geestman who called the author a "liar" first. Meanwhile there is a list of people who Gray says were a primary part of Kenny's life who the author has not developed. Let sleeping dogs alone? It doesn't fit with the script development?
The author claims these 'other people' had no important information vital to knowing Kenny! Gray said otherwise, and that is not what Porteous told Galen, if Galen is correct.
One report says Kenny was a 'flamming _______________ involved in grooming young men'!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 10, 2014, 02:51:40 PM
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"Guys, if Galen is right"

That's why I pointed out on DZ that neither has shown any proof. then all of the sudden the book is being pulled, and he is out of the "Cooper biz"

The author acts like Geestman really knows something! He has labeled Geestman a LIAR in advance. On the one hand he wants to use Geestman - on the other hand he has nullified Geestman in advance in case Geestman would say 'Kenny and I were somewhere else'. The author then gets to keep he claims.


I think it's all in how he reads things. he takes a lot of things skewing them into what he believes. he didn't see anything wrong with stating that many people from here were banned from DZ, but feels that a poster talking about him is justifiable for the comment to be removed. he then drops a censorship bomb on the whole thing. he automatically brands Cossey a liar, simply because he took 10 seconds to tell the Amboy chute was not Cooper's. he seems to look for loopholes to keep his story flowing, or to keep egg off his face.

I would also like to point out that this is not an attack on anyone but the data. it's putting questions into the author of the material though.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 10, 2014, 05:17:35 PM
It appears that he hasn't really changed the PDF on anything. a short list will identify the problems.

1) The house was not purchased with a total cash value.
2) The warranty deed is improperly addressed to the wrong lot.
3) The $5,000 loan appears not to be valid since no documentation has been given.
4) Several of the people that were friends of KC seem to have some deception in the stories told.
5) Two different stories & years when the money was supposedly found on the property.
6) No documentation, or any evidence of an expensive stamp/coin collection.
7) Evidence indicates the countertop found in the attic is more likely to have been placed there during
the demo of the interior, and after Kenny was long gone.
8] Clear indications of how, and where the large sums of money came from in his account can be answered.

Even when the obvious was pointed out. the author has not changed the views of the PDF. these issues were clearly pointed out. the cash for the house, the possibility where the money came from in his account, the error with the deed. when you refuse to accept other possibilities, it's time to seek another adventure. If I were to guess why they remain. I'd say a script, a book, the public view, and some pain in admission. you need to backup what people say in order for a story to function. the pieces are slowly being removed allowing only the chatter in the background of people claiming things. I think if the FBI read this PDF. they quickly came to the same conclusion. just because someone says something, doesn't mean, well you know....that poor little kid is more convinced than the author!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on June 10, 2014, 05:55:59 PM
He also now downplays the importance of the money. The biggest piece of "evidence" he ever had was the house being purchased with cash, thus showing a large amount of spending shortly after the hijacking. Once that was shot down, the money was never that big of an issue, he says. Instead, the impeccable memory of the witnesses is the big evidence now, even though if accurate, still does not tie KC to the hijacking. Show me the money!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 10, 2014, 06:10:48 PM
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He also now downplays the importance of the money. The biggest piece of "evidence" he ever had was the house being purchased with cash, thus showing a large amount of spending shortly after the hijacking. Once that was shot down, the money was never that big of an issue, he says. Instead, the impeccable memory of the witnesses is the big evidence now, even though if accurate, still does not tie KC to the hijacking. Show me the money!

Yes, it was an important part of the story. that's why I mentioned the pieces are slowly being removed, it doesn't leave anything but talk. The FBI doesn't need to speak with these people. his PDF did that for the FBI. he seems to be hanging on there every word. that's not how it's done. how do we know they didn't do this for a part in the book, how do we know Lyle didn't set these people up? it goes on, and on. The FBI wasn't born yesterday. they can see right through a lot of this. sadly an inaccurate PDF doesn't help matters much either.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on June 10, 2014, 06:18:41 PM
I have asked RMB and he will not answer, but do we know who originally made the claim about the house being purchased with cash? That had to come from somewhere. My suspicion is Lyle. Either way, I think Lyle would know how his brother paid for his house. If my brother, who lives in another state, paid cash for his house I would know about it. So, I think Lyle either made that claim originally, or at least never corrected it. I think this is important because Lyle was the originaor of the whole KC as Cooper saga.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 10, 2014, 06:24:00 PM
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I have asked RMB and he will not answer, but do we know who originally made the claim about the house being purchased with cash? That had to come from somewhere. My suspicion is Lyle. Either way, I think Lyle would know how his brother paid for his house. If my brother, who lives in another state, paid cash for his house I would know about it. So, I think Lyle either made that claim originally, or at least never corrected it. I think this is important because Lyle was the originaor of the whole KC as Cooper saga.

I would say Lyle, Carolyn states he bought it for cash, she had to get that from somewhere, or did Kenny state it trying to make himself look good? even the clock, it's from Japan. didn't Kenny do runs there? he could of got it dirt cheap back then. the package is toooo neatly wrapped. I've heard several different prices for the house, and the collection. someone's not being honest.....


Added...Lyle handled Kenny's estate, so shame on him if it did originate from him, plus we are asking Kenny to launder a lot of the cash fast, in order to toss it around like it's his....how would he have known in that short of time that the FBI was having trouble locating the cash. the bad guys usually sit on it longer than a couple months. I doubt Kenny was that criminal savvy. I'm sure Cooper was still hot in the FBI's mind several months later. it was big news. seems pretty far fetched to dump a bunch of the money anywhere that close to the date of the crime. I just can't buy into it.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on June 11, 2014, 12:28:25 AM
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I have asked RMB and he will not answer, but do we know who originally made the claim about the house being purchased with cash? That had to come from somewhere. My suspicion is Lyle. Either way, I think Lyle would know how his brother paid for his house. If my brother, who lives in another state, paid cash for his house I would know about it. So, I think Lyle either made that claim originally, or at least never corrected it. I think this is important because Lyle was the originaor of the whole KC as Cooper saga.

Lyle is an idea man, inventor, has peddled people to Hollywood, etc. His brother being DB Cooper wasn't his first of his last 'gig'.  His brother worked for NWA in Washington no less - why NOT peddle him as Cooper! There may be more to the story but doubtful the public will ever know. Blevins probably promised Lyle the Moon! Their next idea: Uncle Ben of Uncle Ben's Rice was DB Cooper!   
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 11, 2014, 07:22:58 PM
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I have asked RMB and he will not answer, but do we know who originally made the claim about the house being purchased with cash? That had to come from somewhere. My suspicion is Lyle. Either way, I think Lyle would know how his brother paid for his house. If my brother, who lives in another state, paid cash for his house I would know about it. So, I think Lyle either made that claim originally, or at least never corrected it. I think this is important because Lyle was the originaor of the whole KC as Cooper saga.

Lyle is an idea man, inventor, has peddled people to Hollywood, etc. His brother being DB Cooper wasn't his first of his last 'gig'.  His brother worked for NWA in Washington no less - why NOT peddle him as Cooper! There may be more to the story but doubtful the public will ever know. Blevins probably promised Lyle the Moon! Their next idea: Uncle Ben of Uncle Ben's Rice was DB Cooper!


I find it difficult for Lyle not to know anything about the hijacking with his brother working there. they seemed to have been close. everyone else in his circle claim they think he was Cooper. did they also just think of this? none of it jingles. If his voice was anything like Lyle's, it's not even close to what they claim. The script seems to be the last ditch effort to cash in on the whole thing. If these people with the perfect memories claim this now instead of turning him in, how do they feel better throwing him under the bus after his death?

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on June 11, 2014, 07:54:03 PM
You know, I don't know RMB, so I can't really have any personal issues with him. I'm sure if he were a neighbor, I'd get along fine with him. But he used to tout that the only thing that mattered was the truth. That obviously is not the case. The accusations against Christiansen are, in my opinion, slanderous. He justifies that by saying that taking certian liberties with a story is the norm in Hollywood. So what? That does not make it right to accuse a man of a major crime when there is no evidence to go along with it. I used to think this was not about a movie script, but I must agree with you now, that is all it's ever been about. Truth be damned.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on June 11, 2014, 07:58:35 PM
Just my opinion here, but if the script were to ever get made into a movie (which I doubt), my guess is that a certian Mr. Geestman would suddenly find the accusations against him a little more annoying than he does now. Sue RMB...for what? But a production company, now there's a profitable lawsuit.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 11, 2014, 08:07:25 PM
I'm sure you have read some of my posts at DZ. I've said in the past you better be damn sure what you are accusing someone of. the dead can't speak, and unfortunately I think people take advantage of this position. it's no different than what some mothers do to get there 9 year old into a pageant, or push to get a kid into television. these moms are outta control! they will plow anyone down in there way. it's not about the kid anymore.

I didn't really know there was a " Cooper biz" obviously it surrounds money. it's pretty simple to walk away from anything. it's only hard if you don't want too!

I'm not speaking about every Cooper suspect.....
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 11, 2014, 08:13:20 PM
they would change the names of these people to get around anything incorrect, or damaging to "anyone living , or dead" it's hard for anything to be slanderous with the brother right in the middle of this.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on June 11, 2014, 08:27:07 PM
Sure, they could change Geestmans name, but hasn't that horse left the barn? Geestman could use the pdf or Blevins book, or even posts from DZ to clearly demonstrate he was being falsely accused regardless of what they called him in the movie. I think RMB should tread carefully.

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 11, 2014, 09:14:37 PM
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Sure, they could change Geestmans name, but hasn't that horse left the barn? Geestman could use the pdf or Blevins book, or even posts from DZ to clearly demonstrate he was being falsely accused regardless of what they called him in the movie. I think RMB should tread carefully.

Perhaps, but only if they use his real name. he might have an argument if it's to close to what Bernie claimed, or said. he does out right accuse Bernie of knowing about it, or being involved in it. that's enough I think for slander. I don't know from a legal stand point though. just because you think someone is lying, doesn't give you the right to involve them in a Federal crime based on hearsay evidence, or he said/she said theory.

I think you are talking about Bernie going after Robert? if that's the case then yes I believe he can go after Robert. I thought you might be talking about the producers of a show that could possibly come about?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 12, 2014, 05:01:54 PM
Ok, there seems to be a lot of records on Dawn J Androsko at the Pierce County Clerks Office. I'll have to go through them, but they only date back to 1989. it appears she has been dealing with banks often, as well as the Boeing Credit Union. this sends up another red flag showing she has indeed used banks. I guess records will have to be pulled on the dates we need going back to early 1972. It does however give an address on Fox. the one Robert uses all the time. I think once again light will shine through showing trouble in the KC saga.

Here is the link with a full page of Dawns property records since 1989. let me know if the link doesn't work by going directly to her page.

https://armsweb.co.pierce.wa.us/RealEstate/SearchResults.aspx


I see it doesn't go directly to the page. simply click on the disclaimer, and then type her name in, last name first.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 15, 2014, 11:08:16 AM
 Ok, after talking with Robert on DZ I was able to confirm my feelings about the "testimony" of Carolyn Powell being deceptive at the points I have presented in the past. I also watched the ending of Decoded again with the part of Bernie Geestman. it appears that he thinks Robert is lying, he thinks it's possible Kenny was Cooper based on the sketch. the panel seems to have believed his story. Buddy went further stating he wasn't the accomplice. If you take Bernie out of the equation, it's another surgical strike against the story.

Bernie Geestman........nothing seems to point to him being an accomplice.
Margaret Geestman.....(now Miller) can no longer state anything if her ex-husband is not the accomplice.
Carolyn Powell............Has been found not credible in anything said.
Robin Powell...............A heavy drinker with a violent background can not be credible in any statement.
Dawn J Androsko.......It's real hard to believe she borrowed $5,000 paying it back in two years. this is in 1972, a very large sum to loan out to someone you have barely known.

How do we know whether or not Bernie & Margaret are not trying to get each other into trouble? we have no idea of there past together, what caused the separation.

The "Evidence"
The House.............what seemed to be an important part of the story has fell apart due to the lack of research showing the house was not purchased in cash as stated almost anywhere this story has been, be it books, websites, letters to the FBI etc.
Property...............documents appear to be labeled incorrectly by either the wrong address, to stating they were purchased for $10.
The Bank Account...Kenny had large sums of money in his accounts. some try to show the reason from land deals after the crime. this is also incorrect. Kenny was involved with land dating back into the early 60's. he sold a plot containing over a dozen acres at $17,000 a piece. actually there is close to a hundred grand missing if you wish to go that route.
The wood In The Attic.. This can have many other options to it, first it's claimed to be a hiding spot for the money. I fail to connect this for the simple fact of when you put Formica on a surface you don't take the original wood off unless the surface is damaged. why would Kenny put Formica on a piece of wood he is placing in the attic? the kitchen was removed when it was turned into a commercial status. the inside was changed. that piece could of found it's way up there for many reasons. I noticed repairs done, new insulation. this means it never had it, or the old was removed. it could have been used to stand on, who knows, but I seriously doubt it's been there since 1971. the kitchen being destroyed shows why the countertop has jagged edges on parts of it because it was ripped out with no care given for it's appearance.
The Airstream Trailer This can convince many perhaps, but this is basing everything on Cooper wanting to jump where they think he did. evidence seems to point at Cooper wanting out of the plane early, so why is everyone gathering around a possible location that might not have been in the plan?
The Description Kenny Christiansen doesn't match the FBI's description of Cooper. Robert Blevins is trying by using the passengers statements, this is not a good idea because they didn't have a reason to remember him, that's why they differ. Tina stated she had to look up at Cooper. this is extremely hard to get around since Tina, and Kenny are the same height. his skin tone is off, he was bald on the top.
The Te Clip according to reports Dawn J Androsko identified the tie clip, not the tie, being the same Kenny had. I thought Dawn barely knew Kenny after the crime? how could barely know someone, get $5k, and recognize the clip?
The Toupee According to Roberts report Dawn also knew Kenny wore a toupee prior to the crime, but stopped wearing it. again, how could she know all of this if she barely knew him? this is familiar with the now exposed statement from Carolyn Powell who also didn't know much about Kenny, and was proven to have false statements.
The Stamp/Coin Collection..To date, nobody has seen one piece of evidence supporting any valuable collection. prices from $400k, $300k, to $30k have been mentioned. even at 10 grand you would think some sort of documentation would be present. once again, the word speculation comes up.

Please explain where anyone can say this is the best set of circumstances in history?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on June 15, 2014, 12:19:24 PM
One of the questions I always ask is "did the FBI give consideration to this suspect?".  That is not to say they spent a lot of time or money investigating, but did the case agent take a serious look at that suspect.

For example, in the case of Duane Weber the answer is definitely yes.  Larry Carr gave Jo his cell number (at least he said she had it during a post on DZ).   So, he looked to see if her case had merit.  And, we know he had Duane's case file on his desk, because he said so on DZ.

On Kenny Christiansen, I have to believe they did also.  Carr and Gray  did more than just talk about the case together -- Carr let Gray in to review FBI files and Gray implied they still keep in touch -- even saying Gray "might" show up at last year's symposium.  At the time Gray had four suspects that he writes about in his book --KC, Weber, McCoy and Dayton.  So, I'm sure Carr at least reviewed the evidence against each.

You sum it up well, Shutter.  We spend time talking about KC and it's surprising how little evidence there is there.  There is almost none.

So, on the FBI, I take a "watch what they do, not what they say" approach.  And for KC and those others, they did not feel a need to research further.

And, that is the thing that really makes me wonder about Marla's story.  She only had a small snippet of information (childhood memories and things her father told her -- I'll grant that she added some other childhood memories that most likely were not accurate).   But, she had something -- maybe told the FBI some information that matched evidence not made public -- but something that made the FBI investigate L.D. further when it saw no need to do so for the other suspects.

And, Marla's 15 minutes of fame appears to be over.  You don't hear about her anymore and she doesn't respond to Facebook posts.  I wrote to her inviting her to come to this forum, but she never responded.



Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 15, 2014, 12:36:15 PM
I would have to say the FBI would be failing in many ways if they didn't look at public suspects. remember it probably takes a minimal amount of time to piece things together that take us much longer. I'm sure they picked up on the problems Robert sent in his PDF. these guys do this for a living. they are trained to look for important details that others may think are large. we only have bits and pieces of what the FBI does. I'm also positive they have information on Cooper that's withheld for the purpose of weeding out KC's, and LD's etc. Carr admits to this on the radio program I have in the vault.

I realize Robert put a lot of time and effort into this, but he doesn't see things as others do. he actions speak volumes about his personality. look how long it took him to admit what I put him through yesterday. the facts about KC just don't add up, nor do his "witnesses"

That's interesting news about Marla. perhaps she failed in getting someone to pickup her book. basically she left all those people in the dark on Facebook? that also speaks volumes. it's a sign of frustration in my opinion. maybe she publicly crossed the line with the CIA story, and the FBI sent a love letter to her, I don't know, but obviously something catastrophic occurred somewhere. I was waiting for another Marla bomb to drop :)

The FBI is looking for proof. a bunch of people screaming things is never heard, or gets lost in the garble. they want hard solid evidence. they try and show it, and it appears to look good, but most of the time it ends up false, or misleading, or inaccurate. sadly Robert will not be able to repair the damage sent to the FBI.

Also, I don't pick on people as Robert claims. I push them into a corner, and give them an option to explain. most of the time the truth comes out when I use this tactic. most try and divert this tactic into me picking on them, but I keep pushing.

If you see the edit on your post Mark. that was me, I posted my last edit under yours by mistake.

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on June 16, 2014, 06:44:53 PM
Is it true that Florence Shaffner positively ID'd Coffelt as Cooper at one time? I would like to see a picture of him if someone can post one, I couldn't find one. I don't think he was the guy based on what I have read, but if she ID'd him, it stands to reason that he must bear a strong resemblance to Cooper?


I'm not sure about that, but she did say something about KC& LD. I 'll have to look into that,but that's probably why Georger has said in the past that she ID's everyone or something like that. I'm sure he will let us know.


here is Gossett

(http://n467us.com/Polls%20and%20Surveys_files/image024.jpg)

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 16, 2014, 08:32:40 PM
Now, to try an answer your question from DZ. I'm guessing, but it should make some sense. it appears Lyle was close with his brother, I'm guessing he was there a lot until the end. So was Bernie. now, Lyle handled the estate of KC's correct. that means he was probably close with Carolyn, and probably know's Robin Powell as well. the story was started by Lyle, how do we know he didn't tell them a lot of this information prior to anyone snooping around? he's the one who said he looks like Cooper, I'm guessing he read up on Cooper, and formed the story from there. someone has been feeding them information about Kenny. the biggest mistake is telling someone you barely know them, and follow by revealing personal things noticeable only by close friends. at the start you only had one person with interest other than trying to prove KC was Cooper. that would be Lyle. he really tried to get in touch with that producer and paid big bucks for it. another guess would be he convinced Skipp that a book should be written about Kenny. enter Robert Blevins. he pushes the hell out of it, taking the word of many of Kenny's friends, and running with it. I also find it hard that Lyle didn't know anything about the hijacking. he's close to his brother who works for Northwest? really?

Basically you are telling me that all the main witnesses Robert has never said a word to anyone about this, they don't have any other friends? people talk, a lot! if they kept it that guarded, I'm sure they would of never spoken to anyone outside of the circle of trust! including Skip, Gray, and Blevins. Bernie was not comfortable about any of it. I could see that. he also made it very clear that Robert was lying. the end result was exactly what I thought they would say. I was a little disappointed that the final conclusion was they thought he was Cooper. I don't think they would have that opinion today. I still feel Lyle is behind all of this. another option is, lots of people would like to read stories that include themselves. Lyle in an inventor, an idea man. the hamster is constantly running on the wheel. people say a lot of stupid things in order to gain attention. why would anyone hide from the show after they were aware it would be on National television. the gig would be up if any truth was really in the story. I'm almost positive the FBI watch the show. they have the PDF, they have the book..........and....nothing..Medic, 10cc D5W Stat, he going into V-fib.....clear :)

Selling your house an leaving no forward means squat. the FBI would find you in a heartbeat. Marla claimed the samething with LD, and Dewy. both of them have paper trails all over. they weren't hiding from anything.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: EVickiW on June 17, 2014, 01:32:59 AM
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Is it true that Florence Shaffner positively ID'd Coffelt as Cooper at one time? I would like to see a picture of him if someone can post one, I couldn't find one. I don't think he was the guy based on what I have read, but if she ID'd him, it stands to reason that he must bear a strong resemblance to Cooper?


Here is an article about Coffelt. There is a picture within the article.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1345&dat=19831118&id=_cQSAAAAIBAJ&sjid=gfkDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7123,763553

In Skyjack by Geoff Gray, the index shows he investigates Coffelt.  I do not have the book, but this information can be found on page 262.

http://books.google.com/books?id=01dWQTJamLkC&pg=PA304&lpg=PA304&dq=Bryant+%E2%80%9CJack%E2%80%9D+Coffelt&source=bl&ots=6JuObrkYrq&sig=PUzQjuV_ag7eK15jKlptsNVkR0w&hl=en&sa=X&ei=h9GfU83iHM6SqAbruYGIBw&ved=0CEoQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=Bryant%20%E2%80%9CJack%E2%80%9D%20Coffelt&f=false
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on June 17, 2014, 11:14:36 PM
About the witnesses in the KC story: RMB says he can prove  that Kenny and Bernie were together the week of the hijacking. But, did any of his witnesses actually see them together??? Kenny aparently said he was with Bernie that week. But, if they were behind Norjack, why would Kenny admit being with his accomplice??? Bottom line: even his witnesses are going on hearsay...at best.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 18, 2014, 08:44:00 AM
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About the witnesses in the KC story: RMB says he can prove  that Kenny and Bernie were together the week of the hijacking. But, did any of his witnesses actually see them together??? Kenny aparently said he was with Bernie that week. But, if they were behind Norjack, why would Kenny admit being with his accomplice??? Bottom line: even his witnesses are going on hearsay...at best.

He can't prove anything. he is basing everything on what he has been told. that's only the start of an investigation. you need to back up what people say, or claim. we don't have that with this suspect. it's basically set up to sound good. remember he said they were missing that weekend. Robert was lost in the woods for days. what if a crime occurred during this period and he matched the description? if I use Roberts thoughts I could fry him. it's called a victim of circumstance. what we think might be proof is probably not what the FBI thinks. they don't jump on things simply because someone makes a claim. you need as I said to back up what you are claiming. unfortunately the PDF was riddled with problems that I'm sure they noticed.

I'm going through something that is similar to what Robert is claiming. I'm being accused of something I didn't do. this was all done without my knowledge. in my opinion it's exactly what is being done to Kenny. he has no say in it. Now, if you can prove something about it, then it's a different story. I don't have a problem with someone thinking they might know who Cooper is. I do have a problem with someone claiming things as proof without properly checking what one is claiming. Vicki is doing the right things by checking all the angles. looking at possibilities of what happened to her father. you want to try a box things in. if you are missing a corner of the box. your not doing it right.

It's really sad that this much hostility can come from a 40 year old unsolved hijacking.
Title: Re: Theories of the Case: case agents 50+
Post by: georger on June 18, 2014, 03:23:12 PM
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Hey Georger:

4th grade teach decided to ditch the book, Blast, and send all of them into the trash.  The kiddies spotted too many factual errors, too many made-up fables, and an author that kept repeating only one piece of alleged witness accounting that formed the basis for the entire book.  Smart bunch, those 4th graders.  They decided to go back to "cat in the hat" series which offers better information.
snoop.

The book Blast and its author aside (a total waste of time and diversion) the Cooper case, according to Sluggo, has had some 50+ case agents over its history. Some of those agents developed a :theory of the case:. Carr did. Ng may have one in as much as I am told he has reviewed many documents in the case file? I wish someone along the way had bothered to interview and document the different :theories of the case: by case agent.

Carr's theory, so far as I understand it, was:
1. Cooper intended to bail early close to Seattle.
2. Cooper was not an experienced sky diver - as compared with McCoy.
3. Cooper transferred the money to one of the parachute containers and tied it around his waste with shroud line.
4. The flight path depicted by the FBI map is correct.
5. Cooper's bomb was a fake - nothing but road flares.
6. Oscillations and Bump were two distinct events with different causes.
7. Cooper may have bailed as late as 8:14 south of Ariel, perhaps near Orchard, WA.
8. Cooper's survival is an open question.
9. There may be a connection between the name Cooper wrote and the European comic hero, "Dan Cooper".
10. The Cooper money found at Tina Bar is due to hydrological events in the Columbia basin.         

Other case agents had different theories!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 18, 2014, 05:24:41 PM
I agree with a lot of Carr's theories. I think all the jumpers except McCoy never made it to the ground with the money. I think one lost it at the point of exit. the probability of losing the money statistic wise is extremely high. McCoy seems to have been different in many ways. he seems to have landed exactly where he wanted, he was good enough to be a backseat driver for a 727. he stayed on top with constant updates with everything going on with the plane, and the weather. the guy knew what he was doing. I'm not so sure about Cooper. one can only speculate what his knowledge was, but signs are there showing the possibility of him not being as bright as McCoy. so, this in my opinion could also lower his life span during the jump. McCoy's mouth, like all criminals got him identified.

I don't know if Carr misquoted Ratczak, but this claims the bump was felt 10-15 minutes after the last contact. this puts the plane in Oregon. upstream from the resting place of the money, with several contributaries involved. the question remains whether or not Coopers body could go unnoticed in the river, unless the body went under shortly after splash down. it's seems it's possible to splash into the many surrounding lakes, and the bag was released several years later, and floods moved it. that's a little wild, but what isn't here? I guess Cooper could have made it, and lost the money, went home, brushed himself off claiming in his head, "I'll never do that again" while standing in the unemployment line. :)

I like some of the suspects, but something keeps telling me he can't be found this way. we might have everything wrong about Cooper. he doesn't have to be ex-military, he doesn't have to have chute skills. he doesn't really have to be anyone except some fool with a wild idea, and hardly any knowledge they pin him with. the working of the stairs could have been known by a few I give that, but an idea man, like Lyle, or Bob Knoss could easily build something like this in there heads, and act on it. it's just something that rattles around thinking about it. who would of thought a woman would go on television showing what appeared to be honest emotions about her missing children, and put them in a car and let it roll into a lake? you just never know sometimes.

Title: Re: NWA coming to Auburn ? Who are they?
Post by: georger on June 20, 2014, 03:55:46 PM
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About the witnesses in the KC story: RMB says he can prove  that Kenny and Bernie were together the week of the hijacking. But, did any of his witnesses actually see them together??? Kenny aparently said he was with Bernie that week. But, if they were behind Norjack, why would Kenny admit being with his accomplice??? Bottom line: even his witnesses are going on hearsay...at best.

Who are these NWA people RMB says are flying to Auburn for his 'presentation' ? Anyone know? He said they were people from the NWA History Society? What is their real significance if any ?



He can't prove anything. he is basing everything on what he has been told. that's only the start of an investigation. you need to back up what people say, or claim. we don't have that with this suspect. it's basically set up to sound good. remember he said they were missing that weekend. Robert was lost in the woods for days. what if a crime occurred during this period and he matched the description? if I use Roberts thoughts I could fry him. it's called a victim of circumstance. what we think might be proof is probably not what the FBI thinks. they don't jump on things simply because someone makes a claim. you need as I said to back up what you are claiming. unfortunately the PDF was riddled with problems that I'm sure they noticed.

I'm going through something that is similar to what Robert is claiming. I'm being accused of something I didn't do. this was all done without my knowledge. in my opinion it's exactly what is being done to Kenny. he has no say in it. Now, if you can prove something about it, then it's a different story. I don't have a problem with someone thinking they might know who Cooper is. I do have a problem with someone claiming things as proof without properly checking what one is claiming. Vicki is doing the right things by checking all the angles. looking at possibilities of what happened to her father. you want to try a box things in. if you are missing a corner of the box. your not doing it right.

It's really sad that this much hostility can come from a 40 year old unsolved hijacking.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 20, 2014, 04:02:56 PM
I think it's the guy that was on Decoded. Robert needs strength to try and prove employee's didn't know each other. he always runs with loopholes, or just plain out gets things wrong, or over exaggerates the issue. 10 seconds isn't enough time to ID the chute according to him. the passengers gave a description he runs with. as I mentioned before. he takes the worse case and runs with it, while also taking the best case. nothing in between.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on June 21, 2014, 01:13:47 AM
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I think it's the guy that was on Decoded. Robert needs strength to try and prove employee's didn't know each other. he always runs with loopholes, or just plain out gets things wrong, or over exaggerates the issue. 10 seconds isn't enough time to ID the chute according to him. the passengers gave a description he runs with. as I mentioned before. he takes the worse case and runs with it, while also taking the best case. nothing in between.

I posted on DZ asking Robert what new information he discovered since his last PDF.  If you read the excerpt, it's just speculation.  He has said previously he had new information about the property transactions.   I asked for new information, but  I'm not going to hold my breath.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: EVickiW on June 21, 2014, 01:25:37 AM
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I think it's the guy that was on Decoded. Robert needs strength to try and prove employee's didn't know each other. he always runs with loopholes, or just plain out gets things wrong, or over exaggerates the issue. 10 seconds isn't enough time to ID the chute according to him. the passengers gave a description he runs with. as I mentioned before. he takes the worse case and runs with it, while also taking the best case. nothing in between.

According to this article on Tina Mucklow Larson,she flew overseas to japan after the hi-jacking. She most certainly would have worked with Kenny in those five years.

Tina says "“I mostly flew to Japan the last five years,”.

http://www.eugeneweekly.com/article/tina-larson
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 21, 2014, 09:51:53 AM
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I think it's the guy that was on Decoded. Robert needs strength to try and prove employee's didn't know each other. he always runs with loopholes, or just plain out gets things wrong, or over exaggerates the issue. 10 seconds isn't enough time to ID the chute according to him. the passengers gave a description he runs with. as I mentioned before. he takes the worse case and runs with it, while also taking the best case. nothing in between.

According to this article on Tina Mucklow Larson,she flew overseas to japan after the hi-jacking. She most certainly would have worked with Kenny in those five years.

Tina says "“I mostly flew to Japan the last five years,”.

http://www.eugeneweekly.com/article/tina-larson

Yep, and wouldn't you think they would make sure an inside job was looked into since they were on the hook for 200 grand....
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 22, 2014, 10:43:29 AM
In 2011 Robert says this on his top 12 reasons....

1969: Kenny moves from Renton to Sumner, Washington into apartment J-3 at the Rainier View Apartments. It is a low-end apartment and the rent is about $90 a month. Bernie is laid off (or quits, we are not sure) during the huge layoffs Boeing did that year. He finds a job working as a mechanic for Foss Tugs in Seattle. This ends up being the place he works until he retires.

The "low-end apartment" is fishy. the apartments were pretty new. he had several years to stock pile money it seems to me for a down payment on a house. here we also have a memory problem. seems they can remember a toupee being worn prior to November 24, 1971, but can't remember if they were laid off, or quit?

1970: Bernie's sister Dawn, who lives in Minnesota, gets a divorce and moves her four children to Bonney Lake, WA. She moves in with Bernie and Margaret. She is introduced to Kenny and he sometimes drops by to play cards with the three of them, or with Margaret and some of her friends. Dawn testifies later that Kenny sometimes wore a toupee, and that he told people the airline paid him very well, even though everyone knew this was not true.

The only records that surface of the Geestmans in Bonney lake is a document for power of attorney in reference to Elva Geestman. no proof of them living there under there own name can be found. Elva could possibly be the mother, I don't know. the only one with records living there is Dawn.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on June 22, 2014, 11:05:10 AM
I continue to believe that these witnesses were aware that KC had been put forth as a suspect before Blevins interviewed them. If these folks were as close to Kenny as they claim, I don't see how they didn't know. The Mayor of Bonney Lake knew, so it isn't like word of the Grey article never made it Out of New York. I can't believe they didn't hear of this, if they were as close to Kenny as we are told. This was from 2007, two years before RMB came into the KC story. I don't see how they could not have known.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/10785611.html?mobile=y
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 22, 2014, 11:22:41 AM
I just found something interesting. let me put it together.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 22, 2014, 11:31:09 AM
according to Robert, Dawn divorced and moved from Minnesota in 1970. now, according to Robert again, Dawn is single. I found a mortgage document dated 1983 with a Dawn j Androsko, and Richard L Androsko. how could this be if she divorced him, or was single prior to coming to Bonney lake in 1970?

download PDF below....
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 22, 2014, 12:08:33 PM
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I continue to believe that these witnesses were aware that KC had been put forth as a suspect before Blevins interviewed them. If these folks were as close to Kenny as they claim, I don't see how they didn't know. The Mayor of Bonney Lake knew, so it isn't like word of the Grey article never made it Out of New York. I can't believe they didn't hear of this, if they were as close to Kenny as we are told. This was from 2007, two years before RMB came into the KC story. I don't see how they could not have known.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/10785611.html?mobile=y


the video is damaging if you ask me. the owners claim they think they know where the kitchen was. Robert claims Rattenbury knew exactly where everything was, or seen the countertop. then it states property records for the house valued at $14,000, not $16,500, or $14,500. nothing about a cash purchase. Lyle again seems to be the source of " too many things point to him" and again, he is flipping through channels and spots the sketch. I find it extremely odd that he never seen a sketch of Cooper with his close brother working there at the time of the crime, and living in the area. it's pure bullshit.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on June 22, 2014, 12:28:01 PM
Are you refering to the video on the link I posted?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 22, 2014, 12:32:05 PM
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Are you refering to the video on the link I posted?


yes, it proves different things said, or the opposite i should say.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on June 22, 2014, 12:35:01 PM
I can't view it on my ipad. (At Childrens Hospital with my daughter for emergency apendix removal. She is much tougher than Me). I'll check the video out when I get home later this week. Interesting.


Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 22, 2014, 12:37:21 PM
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I can't view it on my ipad. (At Childrens Hospital with my daughter for emergency apendix removal. She is much tougher than Me). I'll check the video out when I get home later this week. Interesting.


sorry to hear that, hope everything is ok.....


I posted on you link by mistake.....anyway.

sorry to hear that, hope everything is ok....
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 22, 2014, 02:39:22 PM
                                      Dawn J Androsko was single in Pierce County you say??

                     

(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/dave767/smaller_zps1a4209a0.jpg)



Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 22, 2014, 02:51:08 PM
Someone has made up the story about the $5,000 loan. documents with Richard L Androsko can be found going back to 1973. Dawn was not single during this period. her name wouldn't be Androsko. the caged tigers have become restless, and have escaped.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on June 22, 2014, 04:26:04 PM
I suppose it's possible that Richard L. Androsko was Dawn's second husband and he adopted her children. 

Interesting....There are a few Androsko's that live near me.  Hmmmmmm.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 22, 2014, 04:28:12 PM
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I suppose it's possible that Richard L. Androsko was Dawn's second husband and he adopted her children. 

Interesting....There are a few Androsko's that live near me.  Hmmmmmm.


Yes, but her name wouldn't be Androsko in 1972 if she wasn't already married to him......she was single remember?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on June 22, 2014, 04:29:58 PM
Do we know her name was Androsko in 1972?  I don't think anyone is claiming that.  And, we know Robert didn't check any financial transactions.

Besides, he thought her name was "Andrusko".
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 22, 2014, 04:32:35 PM
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Do we know her name was Androsko in 1972?  I don't think anyone is claiming that.  And, we know Robert didn't check any financial transactions.

Besides, he thought her name was "Andrusko".

If she was single in 1972 how could her name still be Androsko? she must of been married to him. there are two marriage records with her name. smokin99 could find them with the dates. I don't know why he put her name down incorrectly in the beginning. I found her real name while looking up Geestman last year.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on June 22, 2014, 04:43:49 PM
My question is, how do we know her name was Androsko in 1972?  Her name could have been something else back then.  We only know it was Androsko when Robert interviewed her in 2010.

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 22, 2014, 04:49:16 PM
I see your point, but nothing was said about her getting married in Pierce County. Robert made a point of telling us Margaret's name was once Miller. all we know about Dawn is she was a single mother with kids in 1972. so, basically she got a $5,000 loan, bought a house, paid off the loan, and found a new husband all in the same time period? I don't know if I can accept that?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on June 22, 2014, 07:24:22 PM
That whole story certainly should raise someone's curiosity into looking into it further.

Richard Androsko died tragically at the age of 54.



Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 22, 2014, 07:43:40 PM
why wouldn't Dawn mention this if this is her husband? she would be 54 in 1984. it fits. we need the marriage records to confirm. nice catch...
It appears to be Dawn's husband. he is from Buckley....

(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/dave767/news_zpsfb7ad10b.jpg)

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 22, 2014, 08:54:51 PM
(http://www.usgwarchives.net/wa/pierce/photos/tombstones/woodbine/androsko22926gph.jpg)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on June 22, 2014, 08:59:58 PM
A SUN-TELEGRAM H SAN BERNARDINO. CALIF. Tues., April 23, 1957 Marines Plead Guilty of Kidnap SAN DIEGO m Three Camp Pendleton Marines charged with kidnaping three women in suburban San Ysidro Feb. 16 pleaded guilty at the start of their scheduled jury trial in Superior Court yesterday. The three are Cpl. Jon Edward Stough, 29, Sgt. Carl Samuel Johnson, 26, and S.Sgt. Richard Lee Androsko, 27. Stough in addition pleaded guilty to a sex offense against one of the women, a San Ysidro mother of five children. Superior Judge William Glen continued the men in county jail in lieu of $25,000 bail pending sentencing May 6. Deputy Dist. Atty. F. E. Gallagher said the men forced the women's car off the road and seized one of them. The other two women fled on foot. NOTICE TO FINDERS The penal code of California provides mat one who rinds a lost article under circumstances which eive him means of inquiry as to the true owner and who appropriates such properly to his own use without first making reasonable effort to find the owner is guilty of larceny
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 01, 2014, 05:12:00 PM
Hmm, I just got a response back from the Pierce County Library. it appears there was no obituary for Richard Lee Androsko in 1984? is it possible they ran it in another state where he was from? or did they just decide not to have one in the newspaper?

here is there response:

Hello,  Thank you for your recent email query.  We were unable to find an obituary for Mr. Androsko in the Pierce County Library System' microfilm collection.  The Tacoma Public Library's Northwest Room and/or the Washington State Library might have resources and materials that could aid your search.
Best regards,
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on July 02, 2014, 10:00:07 AM
When we first started looking at Richard Androsko, I checked the Seattle Times obituaries because it was available online through the Seattle Public Library.  There weren't many obituaries...far fewer than now.  Since those are paid, it's possible one wasn't run.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on July 02, 2014, 06:15:22 PM
I've read a couple of interesting articles on McCoy lately. Now, I don't think that McCoy was Cooper...not at all. But I do find his to be an interesting story just the same. A thought came to mind though. What if McCoy had not been caught? Would we be here today trying to figure out what one individual did these two hijackings? And would McCoy have ever emerged as a suspect? Interesting.

Just thinking out loud here...hope no one minds.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 02, 2014, 07:27:36 PM
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I've read a couple of interesting articles on McCoy lately. Now, I don't think that McCoy was Cooper...not at all. But I do find his to be an interesting story just the same. A thought came to mind though. What if McCoy had not been caught? Would we be here today trying to figure out what one individual did these two hijackings? And would McCoy have ever emerged as a suspect? Interesting.

Just thinking out loud here...hope no one minds.


The guy had it made. his mouth got him in trouble, along with leaving a note behind. you do understand he was in a helicopter helping to look for himself. that's balls right there!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 02, 2014, 07:30:03 PM
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When we first started looking at Richard Androsko, I checked the Seattle Times obituaries because it was available online through the Seattle Public Library.  There weren't many obituaries...far fewer than now.  Since those are paid, it's possible one wasn't run.

I think we can say that it didn't run in any papers. you checked, and the Library checked, and found nothing. perhaps she already knew DOT would do something? I don't know.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 03, 2014, 11:10:40 AM
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I've read a couple of interesting articles on McCoy lately. Now, I don't think that McCoy was Cooper...not at all. But I do find his to be an interesting story just the same. A thought came to mind though. What if McCoy had not been caught? Would we be here today trying to figure out what one individual did these two hijackings? And would McCoy have ever emerged as a suspect? Interesting.

Just thinking out loud here...hope no one minds.


I think if McCoy was never caught, I think the FBI would of concluded it was two different people. it doesn't compare very well with Cooper. McCoy knew what he was doing. he was very calculated in his moves. I don't think we can say the same for Cooper. a noticeable difference in how the crime played out seems to be obvious. as far as we know, Cooper never asked about the path, altitude, or wind direction after taking off. I'm sure a lot of people would try and link the two as the same person though. just look at what they try and link now.

McCoy had a empty gun, and a fake grenade. I believe Cooper had a fake bomb. I don't think either one had any intentions of following through with the threats. If you were to ask me today, I'd say yes. the criminal mind is much different than in 1971. they kill for no reason now.


Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on July 04, 2014, 12:13:13 AM
Sutter:

You think Sheridan was not as clever as McCoy but everything Sheridan did was for a reason. He was actually much more clever than McCoy and. that is why the Cooper case is still unsolved.
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw00@com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 04, 2014, 02:05:42 PM
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Sutter:

You think Sheridan was not as clever as McCoy but everything Sheridan did was for a reason. He was actually much more clever than McCoy and. that is why the Cooper case is still unsolved.
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw00@com

I agree. McCoy was head strong, materialistic, and myopic, in my view.  His wife apparently like-minded.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 04, 2014, 03:33:07 PM
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Sutter:

You think Sheridan was not as clever as McCoy but everything Sheridan did was for a reason. He was actually much more clever than McCoy and. that is why the Cooper case is still unsolved.
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw00@com


My point here is not to pick on suspects as much as it picks on the obvious differences between Cooper & McCoy. McCoy landed i think 5 miles from his house. this was due to his directions from the back of the plane. his timing was calculated to allow him the proper timing to achieve his plan. he was a pilot, and an expert jumper. the two combinations allowed for this to happen in my opinion. it could have been the perfect crime had he not left the note on the plane, and the shooting off of his mouth.

Since we don't know Coopers background, it only leaves speculation about him. some clues can be seen, but nothing is written in stone. can we say without a doubt he had knowledge of chutes? can we say he had all the information about the stairs? can we conclude that he wanted to jump in the area believed? could we assume Cooper lives somewhere around Amboy, or Merwin lake? or even around KPDX? or SEA. since he wanted the stairs down at takeoff?

what clues were given out allowing McCoy to complete his mission with no known issues during the jump. how did McCoy learn how to operate the stairs. did they also lower them for him? I don't recall anything said about the stairs that I can remember.

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 04, 2014, 04:36:44 PM
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Sutter:

You think Sheridan was not as clever as McCoy but everything Sheridan did was for a reason. He was actually much more clever than McCoy and. that is why the Cooper case is still unsolved.
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw00@com


My point here is not to pick on suspects as much as it picks on the obvious differences between Cooper & McCoy. McCoy landed i think 5 miles from his house. this was due to his directions from the back of the plane. his timing was calculated to allow him the proper timing to achieve his plan. he was a pilot, and an expert jumper. the two combinations allowed for this to happen in my opinion. it could have been the perfect crime had he not left the note on the plane, and the shooting off of his mouth.

Since we don't know Coopers background, it only leaves speculation about him. some clues can be seen, but nothing is written in stone. can we say without a doubt he had knowledge of chutes? can we say he had all the information about the stairs? can we conclude that he wanted to jump in the area believed? could we assume Cooper lives somewhere around Amboy, or Merwin lake? or even around KPDX? or SEA. since he wanted the stairs down at takeoff?

what clues were given out allowing McCoy to complete his mission with no known issues during the jump. how did McCoy learn how to operate the stairs. did they also lower them for him? I don't recall anything said about the stairs that I can remember.

Carr used McCoy as the prototype for what an experienced skydiver-hijacker with good planning would do. Carr thought Cooper did not compare favorably - was an amateur. I'm still not sure what Cooper criteria Carr was using to compare with McCoy. Fact is, Cooper was not found. Except for the money at Tina Bar, for all we know Cooper succeeded whereas it was McCoy who got caught. Moreover the plans were significantly different over totally different geography requiring different skill sets. We may even know more about what McCoy said and did than we know about what Cooper actually said and did on board each plane! McCoy was far more open as a person - Cooper held everything very close to his vest, as it were. I believe McCoy was far more vulnerable to being caught even without his big mouth. Cooper (it appears) got away and has never been caught! I think the chance Cooper died in his jump is less than 10% knowing everything we know today from all of the experts who have given opinions. Even Cossey said: 'if he got it open he survived'. Carr comparison may be wishful bravado. I think sheer 'luck' was far more on Cooper's side than on McCoy's side. Cooper may very well have lost some or all of his money (bag) along the way, but I believe Cooper landed alive and may have escaped with his life.  I think Carr's comparison is for public consumption and not reality.

I am even suspicious, based on several things Cooper supposedly said to Tina,  that the money was most important to Cooper, as Carr contends it was. What Cooper himself defined as his "reason" was a "grudge" he was carrying. That suggests something social-political to me, vs. financial. Yes, he did take pains to repack and tie the money to himself to take it with him. But, for all we know once he was on the ground he may have thrown the money bag away! He probably would have known that NWA was insured, but his stated reason is social-political (against someone or some thing. Institutional crime?). What exactly was he trying to prove and how does that satisfy his personal "grudge" - that is central in this crime ? McCoy's purpose is strictly financial and egotistical.
     
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 06, 2014, 07:03:12 PM
Ok, unfortunately we have to go back to KC. Blevins makes this statement Oct. 26, 2013.

6) April 1972: Mr and Mrs Geestman have had house guests for a few months now, Mr Geestman's sister Dawn Andrusko and her kids. They had recently come out from Minnesota after Dawn divorced her husband there. She asks Bernie to approach Kenny Christiansen for a loan so she can buy her own place. Bernie ends up delivering the money, and his sister pays back the $5,000 over a two-year period, although KC had actually given her three years to pay.

According to this statement. how well did Dawn know Kenny? she had only been there a couple months, and was from Minnesota after her divorce. how did she land the big paying job so quickly? he never says she transferred? how did she see the tie clip prior to 1971?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on July 06, 2014, 10:09:51 PM
That makes it difficult.  Since it appears Dawn was married to Richard Androsko when he died in 1984, her name when she came out in 1972 was probably different.  If we can find property records of a house she bought in 1972 (and I'm going to try to go sleuthing in a couple of weeks), we can probably track that down.

Problem with the KC story being posted...so much of it was "too good to check".  Dawn had a good job?  What kind of work did she do?  Who did she work for?  Evidentally, that was not checked.

Really...when Robert talked about Marla's story having more holes than swiss cheese, I'm not sure I can find the cheese on his story.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 06, 2014, 10:18:55 PM
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That makes it difficult.  Since it appears Dawn was married to Richard Androsko when he died in 1984, her name when she came out in 1972 was probably different.  If we can find property records of a house she bought in 1972 (and I'm going to try to go sleuthing in a couple of weeks), we can probably track that down.

Problem with the KC story being posted...so much of it was "too good to check".  Dawn had a good job?  What kind of work did she do?  Who did she work for?  Evidentally, that was not checked.

Really...when Robert talked about Marla's story having more holes than swiss cheese, I'm not sure I can find the cheese on his story.


Yes, I told him he shares the block of cheese with Marla. he is now stating Dawn was living there prior to 1972. how is she jumping around like this? there roots are in Minnesota. her job, like you say has not even been confirmed as a good paying job to support the allegations. If she did in fact live in Washington during this period. why was this not noted? all of the sudden she has roots going way back?

The whole thing is hard to confirm with only Robert talking with these people....
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on July 08, 2014, 12:44:15 AM
The public library has a library version of ancestry.com and I went to see if I could research something about Bernie Geestman and Dawn Androsko.  Both show up in the 1930 and 1940 census living in Minnesota.  Their father (also Bernie Geestman) died in Minnesota in 1945.  Their mother (Alva Geestman) died in Tacoma in 1988.  I wasn't able to discover what the surname of Dawn between the time when it was Geestman and Androsko, but I will.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 08, 2014, 06:11:41 PM
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The public library has a library version of ancestry.com and I went to see if I could research something about Bernie Geestman and Dawn Androsko.  Both show up in the 1930 and 1940 census living in Minnesota.  Their father (also Bernie Geestman) died in Minnesota in 1945.  Their mother (Alva Geestman) died in Tacoma in 1988.  I wasn't able to discover what the surname of Dawn between the time when it was Geestman and Androsko, but I will.


Yes, and Dawn was the power of attorney for Mom it appears. this is dated 1988 in the records. obviously after her death. I think we will find that mom was the only one living in Bonney lake if you ask me. that's a hunch. I can't say for sure since the records don't go that far back online.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 12, 2014, 03:35:45 PM
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The public library has a library version of ancestry.com and I went to see if I could research something about Bernie Geestman and Dawn Androsko.  Both show up in the 1930 and 1940 census living in Minnesota.  Their father (also Bernie Geestman) died in Minnesota in 1945.  Their mother (Alva Geestman) died in Tacoma in 1988.  I wasn't able to discover what the surname of Dawn between the time when it was Geestman and Androsko, but I will.


Yes, and Dawn was the power of attorney for Mom it appears. this is dated 1988 in the records. obviously after her death. I think we will find that mom was the only one living in Bonney lake if you ask me. that's a hunch. I can't say for sure since the records don't go that far back online.

Not much happening, on the surface at least. RMB has apparently gone underground, or has given up his Cooper stand at the local carnival - depending on which of his versions you buy. Another lunatic is over at DZ taking about "loonatics!". Everyone and everything else apparently, stone cold inactive. Maybe it dies with a whimper and not a Blast? So many what ifs and unresolved-unanswered questions. About this same time of year in 1972, locals were out searching for Cooper and found nothing - nada! But of course they were all looking in the area the government said Cooper had bailed; not south below magical "12 mile line" Himmelsbach was yet to announce (in 1976?). Some thought Cooper's bones might be melting in Lake Merwin and one guy was proposing scuba divers and even a submarine search?

Today, I wonder even more 'why' Gray took the slant he did in his vaunted Cooper book, as opposed to doing something clear and more decisive, like a solid historical essay filled with the 'new info' everyone has been seeking for years? This kind of running anecdotal mish-mash which has people being born in the wrong States with the wrong names and 'discussing the Cooper case every Thanksgiving?' solidly grounds Gray's book as something other than fact-based, looking to create an effect and a sensation only, perhaps? How could Gray be so in the dark and removed from reality after years in the FBI archives rubbing shoulders with Tom and Carol, free to go wherever whenever he liked on a healthy budget, looking for Cooper facts?

Why didn't Gray or Kaye delve into the so-called 'partial dna profile'  Carr and the FBI says it has, or thinks it has, on D.B. Cooper? Here's why! http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/codis/codis-and-ndis-fact-sheet Slip into bed some night with a hot cup of coco and start reading this! If your eyes aren't glazed over and you aren't fast asleep within thirty minutes then possibly you won't get any sleep at all and at 8:00am the next morning you will be up pacing the floor asking: "why doesn't Gray's book explain all of this as it pertains to the DB Cooper case, for the layman"?  Cooper For Dummies ?

What bothers me most, quite frankly, is reporters (good reporters) penetrate the veil of secrecy every single day on other subjects in human affairs - why not the DB Cooper case, in over 40 (forty) years!? John Walsh won't even touch the DB Cooper case! No Warren Commissions on D.B. Cooper! The 'deer in the headlights' response seems to have gripped the whole nation now for over forty years, so celebrations erupt at Ariel in denial, sleuths come and go with a repertoire of claims and questions with nothing resolved, book writers sneak in and sneak out in search of fame, and the bacteria of this case refuse to give up any secrets! We don't know any more now than when this started! It's Cooper 100 - the rest of us 0.

Oh well. Most of the deeper secrets of the Universe are beyond human grasp too! Perhaps Cooper was from another Universe. I don't think so ... ! (smile)           
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 12, 2014, 08:27:04 PM
Well we have uncovered some facts. more research is still on going. since Blevy doesn't want to post anything. the same will happen on this side until it's complete.

It would be real nice for a respected reporter to dive into the case, and dive into all of the suspects floating around. I've read many jumpers saying they could do it, but I've not seen anyone really duplicate the jump. would that even be fair? nobody knows for sure if he had any experience with jumps?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on July 15, 2014, 04:55:41 PM
I'm not actively pushing any suspect at this writing, primarily because I'm too busy working in my profession as an attorney.  Everyone seems to have an opinion on the most likely suspect, and that's a good thing, as it helps flesh out facts that may have been overlooked.  I have examined Kenneth Christianson more closely over the past several months and I have this to report:  He does not fit the physical description as described by eyewitnesses, he did not have a criminal background or a predisposition to fit a criminal profile for such a crime, he had no apparent motive to undertake such a risk, he worked for the very airline that was hijacked (which means he would have certainly faced the fellow crew members that he threatened at a later point in time), and, it is highly questionable that he possessed the ability to exit a plane traveling nearly 200 mph without a static line from which he was trained.  Christianson had a paratrooper qualification in the WW2 era, but no records indicate he ever jumped in combat, or ever jumped after his military training (as a civilian).  In otherwords, it is most likely that Christianson made his last parachute jump in the 1940's (two and a half decades prior to 1971).  Christianson probably never did a free-fall jump, and certainly, 25 years without any jump would have made it very unlikely that he was the 1971 hijacker.  In addition, I have this to report:  Ken Christianson was ruled-out as a suspect by both Curtis Eng and Larry Carr.  Eng and Carr were/are case managers for NORJAK.  Each has told me personally that Christianson was not DB Cooper, and therefore will not be examined further by the FBI.  Only the NOJAK case managers make that determination, not other agents or FBI media representatives who are not assigned to the case.  William Mitchell and I met several years ago and I showed him several photos of various suspects.  I showed Mitchell a photo of Ken Christianson.  Mitchell said that Christianson was not DB Cooper.  Skipp Porteous and I have talked on the phone many times over the past seven years and he told me that Christianson's past was colored because he was a gay man who liked and entertained young men.  This was probably his "secret" that he could not reveal to brother Lyle Christianson.  Lyle Christianson was interviewed by KXLY AM970 radio host, Mike Fitzsimmons, in November 2007.  I debated Lyle during the live call-in show.  Lyle admitted that he had no evidence of any kind to advance his fantasy that Ken Christianson was DB Cooper.  Lyle stated that his brother lived near Seattle, worked for Northwest Airlines, and was a former paratrooper.  That was all the evidence Lyle gave.  What Lyle really wanted was a Hollywood movie depicting Ken Christianson as DB Cooper so that Lyle would become famous and make money.  It seems that there is only one person remaining who is trying desperately to push Ken Christianson as DB Cooper.  That person is Robert Blevins, a co-author of a very poorly researched, and factually incorrect, version of the 1971 hijacking.  It seems Mr. Blevins is desperate, when all other former supporters of the Ken Christianson theory have long-ago packed their bags and departed.  Maybe Mr. Blevins is seeking fame and riches.  One thing for sure:  Mr. Blevins has produced no evidence that is either probative or supports his theory.  His sole source of support is that a "probable co-conspirator named Geestman is lying about his involvement with Ken Christianson."  This is a flimsy way to construct a case, and the reason why Mr. Blevins gets no attention from the FBI, from bonafide DB Cooper researchers, or from credible media sources.  Ken Christianson was not DB Cooper, not matter how much Mr. Blevins keeps fantacizing.  And those are the facts.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 15, 2014, 05:24:34 PM
that about sums it up. I would add that I find it extremely strange that Lyle had no clue of this for decades. the brothers were obviously close, and I am positive Lyle was aware of the crime, and the sketch that he just so happened to see decades later? some of the witnesses Robert claims to have are falling under fire for the simple reason they didn't really know Kenny that well. the purchase of the house was a huge deal before it was found to be incorrect. the large sum of money in his account prior to his death can easily be explained. actually a large portion of it is missing if you wish to split hairs. Kenny sold a large lot consisting of approx, 18 acres I believe selling at $17,000 an acre. the lot was purchased in the early 60's. Robert likes to toss things in to make it look like it was connected to the crime. I ask this, what was a poor guy who slaved for Northwest Orient, with very little pay, purchasing real estate? you can't have one way in my opinion. I think Kenny was good with money, and knew exactly what he was doing, and it paid off for him. I don't see any mystery here.....

The wood in the attic is nothing but that. the house went through a lot of changes, including the removal of the kitchen, and the ever so popular countertop with the same formica on it.

I think Kenny was an average guy who worked just like everyone else does, and bitched about work, just as everyone does. the worse hurdle for Kenny to get over is Tina stating she had to look up at Cooper. she would be at eye level with Kenny. I'm sure Kenny knew exactly how to open the stairs. he would have to know the plane inside and out for emergencies.

The story has now taken a turn with all kinds of people coming forward? this is a Bob Knoss tactic if you ask me. the word "smoke & mirrors" comes to mind!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on July 15, 2014, 05:49:12 PM
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I'm not actively pushing any suspect at this writing, primarily because I'm too busy working in my profession as an attorney.  Everyone seems to have an opinion on the most likely suspect, and that's a good thing, as it helps flesh out facts that may have been overlooked.  I have examined Kenneth Christianson more closely over the past several months and I have this to report:  He does not fit the physical description as described by eyewitnesses, he did not have a criminal background or a predisposition to fit a criminal profile for such a crime, he had no apparent motive to undertake such a risk, he worked for the very airline that was hijacked (which means he would have certainly faced the fellow crew members that he threatened at a later point in time), and, it is highly questionable that he possessed the ability to exit a plane traveling nearly 200 mph without a static line from which he was trained.  Christianson had a paratrooper qualification in the WW2 era, but no records indicate he ever jumped in combat, or ever jumped after his military training (as a civilian).  In otherwords, it is most likely that Christianson made his last parachute jump in the 1940's (two and a half decades prior to 1971).  Christianson probably never did a free-fall jump, and certainly, 25 years without any jump would have made it very unlikely that he was the 1971 hijacker.  In addition, I have this to report:  Ken Christianson was ruled-out as a suspect by both Curtis Eng and Larry Carr.  Eng and Carr were/are case managers for NORJAK.  Each has told me personally that Christianson was not DB Cooper, and therefore will not be examined further by the FBI.  Only the NOJAK case managers make that determination, not other agents or FBI media representatives who are not assigned to the case.  William Mitchell and I met several years ago and I showed him several photos of various suspects.  I showed Mitchell a photo of Ken Christianson.  Mitchell said that Christianson was not DB Cooper.  Skipp Porteous and I have talked on the phone many times over the past seven years and he told me that Christianson's past was colored because he was a gay man who liked and entertained young men.  This was probably his "secret" that he could not reveal to brother Lyle Christianson.  Lyle Christianson was interviewed by KXLY AM970 radio host, Mike Fitzsimmons, in November 2007.  I debated Lyle during the live call-in show.  Lyle admitted that he had no evidence of any kind to advance his fantasy that Ken Christianson was DB Cooper.  Lyle stated that his brother lived near Seattle, worked for Northwest Airlines, and was a former paratrooper.  That was all the evidence Lyle gave.  What Lyle really wanted was a Hollywood movie depicting Ken Christianson as DB Cooper so that Lyle would become famous and make money.  It seems that there is only one person remaining who is trying desperately to push Ken Christianson as DB Cooper.  That person is Robert Blevins, a co-author of a very poorly researched, and factually incorrect, version of the 1971 hijacking.  It seems Mr. Blevins is desperate, when all other former supporters of the Ken Christianson theory have long-ago packed their bags and departed.  Maybe Mr. Blevins is seeking fame and riches.  One thing for sure:  Mr. Blevins has produced no evidence that is either probative or supports his theory.  His sole source of support is that a "probable co-conspirator named Geestman is lying about his involvement with Ken Christianson."  This is a flimsy way to construct a case, and the reason why Mr. Blevins gets no attention from the FBI, from bonafide DB Cooper researchers, or from credible media sources.  Ken Christianson was not DB Cooper, not matter how much Mr. Blevins keeps fantacizing.  And those are the facts.

Welcome back, Snooper. Very concise report on KC.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 15, 2014, 11:39:46 PM
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I'm not actively pushing any suspect at this writing, primarily because I'm too busy working in my profession as an attorney.  Everyone seems to have an opinion on the most likely suspect, and that's a good thing, as it helps flesh out facts that may have been overlooked.  I have examined Kenneth Christianson more closely over the past several months and I have this to report:  He does not fit the physical description as described by eyewitnesses, he did not have a criminal background or a predisposition to fit a criminal profile for such a crime, he had no apparent motive to undertake such a risk, he worked for the very airline that was hijacked (which means he would have certainly faced the fellow crew members that he threatened at a later point in time), and, it is highly questionable that he possessed the ability to exit a plane traveling nearly 200 mph without a static line from which he was trained.  Christianson had a paratrooper qualification in the WW2 era, but no records indicate he ever jumped in combat, or ever jumped after his military training (as a civilian).  In otherwords, it is most likely that Christianson made his last parachute jump in the 1940's (two and a half decades prior to 1971).  Christianson probably never did a free-fall jump, and certainly, 25 years without any jump would have made it very unlikely that he was the 1971 hijacker.  In addition, I have this to report:  Ken Christianson was ruled-out as a suspect by both Curtis Eng and Larry Carr.  Eng and Carr were/are case managers for NORJAK.  Each has told me personally that Christianson was not DB Cooper, and therefore will not be examined further by the FBI.  Only the NOJAK case managers make that determination, not other agents or FBI media representatives who are not assigned to the case.  William Mitchell and I met several years ago and I showed him several photos of various suspects.  I showed Mitchell a photo of Ken Christianson.  Mitchell said that Christianson was not DB Cooper.  Skipp Porteous and I have talked on the phone many times over the past seven years and he told me that Christianson's past was colored because he was a gay man who liked and entertained young men.  This was probably his "secret" that he could not reveal to brother Lyle Christianson.  Lyle Christianson was interviewed by KXLY AM970 radio host, Mike Fitzsimmons, in November 2007.  I debated Lyle during the live call-in show.  Lyle admitted that he had no evidence of any kind to advance his fantasy that Ken Christianson was DB Cooper.  Lyle stated that his brother lived near Seattle, worked for Northwest Airlines, and was a former paratrooper.  That was all the evidence Lyle gave.  What Lyle really wanted was a Hollywood movie depicting Ken Christianson as DB Cooper so that Lyle would become famous and make money.  It seems that there is only one person remaining who is trying desperately to push Ken Christianson as DB Cooper.  That person is Robert Blevins, a co-author of a very poorly researched, and factually incorrect, version of the 1971 hijacking.  It seems Mr. Blevins is desperate, when all other former supporters of the Ken Christianson theory have long-ago packed their bags and departed.  Maybe Mr. Blevins is seeking fame and riches.  One thing for sure:  Mr. Blevins has produced no evidence that is either probative or supports his theory.  His sole source of support is that a "probable co-conspirator named Geestman is lying about his involvement with Ken Christianson."  This is a flimsy way to construct a case, and the reason why Mr. Blevins gets no attention from the FBI, from bonafide DB Cooper researchers, or from credible media sources.  Ken Christianson was not DB Cooper, not matter how much Mr. Blevins keeps fantacizing.  And those are the facts.

Excellent, well written statement. Excellent!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 16, 2014, 12:00:16 AM
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that about sums it up. I would add that I find it extremely strange that Lyle had no clue of this for decades. the brothers were obviously close, and I am positive Lyle was aware of the crime, and the sketch that he just so happened to see decades later? some of the witnesses Robert claims to have are falling under fire for the simple reason they didn't really know Kenny that well. the purchase of the house was a huge deal before it was found to be incorrect. the large sum of money in his account prior to his death can easily be explained. actually a large portion of it is missing if you wish to split hairs. Kenny sold a large lot consisting of approx, 18 acres I believe selling at $17,000 an acre. the lot was purchased in the early 60's. Robert likes to toss things in to make it look like it was connected to the crime. I ask this, what was a poor guy who slaved for Northwest Orient, with very little pay, purchasing real estate? you can't have one way in my opinion. I think Kenny was good with money, and knew exactly what he was doing, and it paid off for him. I don't see any mystery here.....

The wood in the attic is nothing but that. the house went through a lot of changes, including the removal of the kitchen, and the ever so popular countertop with the same formica on it.

I think Kenny was an average guy who worked just like everyone else does, and bitched about work, just as everyone does. the worse hurdle for Kenny to get over is Tina stating she had to look up at Cooper. she would be at eye level with Kenny. I'm sure Kenny knew exactly how to open the stairs. he would have to know the plane inside and out for emergencies.

The story has now taken a turn with all kinds of people coming forward? this is a Bob Knoss tactic if you ask me. the word "smoke & mirrors" comes to mind!

Bruce Kitt told me it was pretty obvious the whole Decoded-Kagin/Blevins 'production' was nothing more than a staged media creation trying to produce a preconceived result. They took people's statements out of context, or only parts of people's statements which they claimed fit a certain interpretation. They ignored people's other comments and statements wholesale, which disagreed with their contention KC could be DB Cooper. And Bruce made it perfectly clear neither he nor the NWA History Center endorses anything Blevins has said or claimed ...and it is apparent that Blevins has never made any attempt to correct the record with respect to Mr. Kitt. Had not I intervened and called and talked to Mr. Kitt, very likely Mr. Blevins would have continued to peddle his version of what Kitt was filmed saying, Blevins would have continued to bypass the whole issue of what Kitt's actual views and information are,  and Mr. Blevins would never have made Kitt's "actual views" he expressed to Meltzer and Kagin known ! It's a textbook example of simple fraud on Blevins’ part!

When I presented this material on DZ several nights ago the only ‘hook’ Blevins could find to use was an accusation that ‘I had betrayed  confidence in revealing Kitt’s feelings and the true story of what happened during the production of Decoded, Kitt conveyed to me in a private conversation’!?  In fact there was no such confidence implied or expressed between Kitt and myself.  Then last night RMB reprises what I posted Kitt saying during OUR conversation … almost as if Blevins had conducted the interview himself!  He gives me no credit whatever.  It’s just one more example of distortion and fraud. Mr. Blevins didn’t interview Kitt. I did!     
 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on July 16, 2014, 12:44:59 AM
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that about sums it up. I would add that I find it extremely strange that Lyle had no clue of this for decades. the brothers were obviously close, and I am positive Lyle was aware of the crime, and the sketch that he just so happened to see decades later? some of the witnesses Robert claims to have are falling under fire for the simple reason they didn't really know Kenny that well. the purchase of the house was a huge deal before it was found to be incorrect. the large sum of money in his account prior to his death can easily be explained. actually a large portion of it is missing if you wish to split hairs. Kenny sold a large lot consisting of approx, 18 acres I believe selling at $17,000 an acre. the lot was purchased in the early 60's. Robert likes to toss things in to make it look like it was connected to the crime. I ask this, what was a poor guy who slaved for Northwest Orient, with very little pay, purchasing real estate? you can't have one way in my opinion. I think Kenny was good with money, and knew exactly what he was doing, and it paid off for him. I don't see any mystery here.....

The wood in the attic is nothing but that. the house went through a lot of changes, including the removal of the kitchen, and the ever so popular countertop with the same formica on it.

I think Kenny was an average guy who worked just like everyone else does, and bitched about work, just as everyone does. the worse hurdle for Kenny to get over is Tina stating she had to look up at Cooper. she would be at eye level with Kenny. I'm sure Kenny knew exactly how to open the stairs. he would have to know the plane inside and out for emergencies.

The story has now taken a turn with all kinds of people coming forward? this is a Bob Knoss tactic if you ask me. the word "smoke & mirrors" comes to mind!

Bruce Kitt told me it was pretty obvious the whole Decoded-Kagin/Blevins 'production' was nothing more than a staged media creation trying to produce a preconceived result. They took people's statements out of context, or only parts of people's statements which they claimed fit a certain interpretation. They ignored people's other comments and statements wholesale, which disagreed with their contention KC could be DB Cooper. And Bruce made it perfectly clear neither he nor the NWA History Center endorses anything Blevins has said or claimed ...and it is apparent that Blevins has never made any attempt to correct the record with respect to Mr. Kitt. Had not I intervened and called and talked to Mr. Kitt, very likely Mr. Blevins would have continued to peddle his version of what Kitt was filmed saying, Blevins would have continued to bypass the whole issue of what Kitt's actual views and information are,  and Mr. Blevins would never have made Kitt's "actual views" he expressed to Meltzer and Kagin known ! It's a textbook example of simple fraud on Blevins’ part!

When I presented this material on DZ several nights ago the only ‘hook’ Blevins could find to use was an accusation that ‘I had betrayed  confidence in revealing Kitt’s feelings and the true story of what happened during the production of Decoded, Kitt conveyed to me in a private conversation’!?  In fact there was no such confidence implied or expressed between Kitt and myself.  Then last night RMB reprises what I posted Kitt saying during OUR conversation … almost as if Blevins had conducted the interview himself!  He gives me no credit whatever.  It’s just one more example of distortion and fraud. Mr. Blevins didn’t interview Kitt. I did!     
 

I don't think Robert could have misrepresented Kitt forever.

See this article Vicki found:

http://www.nwahistory.org/newsletter/13_fall_newsletter_a.pdf

In it Kitt says this on page 10, talking about the opening of the Cooper exhibit in Tacoma.

"Tom Kaye, a forensic scientist with Citizens Sleuths, gave an update on independent analysis of items from the FBI’s evidence of the hijacking. I
thought his talk did much to dismiss the theory of Kenny Christensen being Dan Cooper and provide information on the buried $20 dollar bills
found along the bank of the Columbia River in 1980. This should definitely be a destination for anyone in the Puget Sound area. COOPER ends
on January 5, 2014. BK "
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on July 16, 2014, 12:58:45 AM
It's been pretty obvious that Mr. Blevins is a "peddler," not a valid researcher, or writer of facts.  His book, Blast, has done poorly.  It has many errors and mistakes in it, even after multiple revisions.  If Mr. Blevins truly had something constructive to add to the case, things would be different for him.  Instead, he spends his many hours per day posting defensive comments and discussing personal things about himself that are irrelevant and not interesting to anyone else.  But most telling is the lack of support by others who initially bought into the Ken Christianson story.  Geoff Gray.  I talked with Geoff Gray for several hours and he had nothing positive to say about Mr. Blevins when I broached questions about RMB.  Geoff Gray is not a proponent of Ken Christianson as the suspect.  Skipp Porteous.  I knew and compared some investigative facts with Skipp Porteous in 2008-2010.  Skipp is Mr. Blevin's co-author.  But Skipp has NEVER come out to Blevin's defense.  That is very telling.  Even more telling is that Skipp has never met Blevins face-to-face.  This is not the normal stuff of co-authorship of a great mystery.  Skipp has bowed out.  Mr. Blevins would say otherwise, but let him prove it by showing the viewers a true copy of an e-mail from Skipp Porteous to Blevins with a recent posting date.  I have dozens of e-mails from Skipp Porteous.   Mr. Blevins is a strange man indeed, with all of his incessant ramblings.  But it all adds up to one very discernable attribute:  he is in dire need of attention (like a teenager using twitter), for the purpose of showing that he has accomplished something in his life.  I hope he can articulate what that accomplishment is, because none of us can figure it out, and, .......he hasn't come close to solving the DB Cooper case.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 16, 2014, 08:13:01 AM
Although I didn't want any battles going on about Robert, I have asked him more than 4 times on DZ to prove things Coop said were wrong. he only responds by stating he talks to him frequently. he likes to play the sympathy game, but DZ finally caught up to him by warning him about personal attacks. something he constantly claims is directed at him.

I asked him a while ago if Skipps name will be on the free issue, he replied yes. I'm still not sure what he is doing with the book, or why it's being taken out of sales. I thought it was because of Skipp, or someone else involved who no longer wants any part of the book. this would cause the book to be redone once again. the cost would not justify it remaining in sales. I guess we will find out sooner or later.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 16, 2014, 03:13:34 PM
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Although I didn't want any battles going on about Robert, I have asked him more than 4 times on DZ to prove things Coop said were wrong. he only responds by stating he talks to him frequently. he likes to play the sympathy game, but DZ finally caught up to him by warning him about personal attacks. something he constantly claims is directed at him.

I asked him a while ago if Skipps name will be on the free issue, he replied yes. I'm still not sure what he is doing with the book, or why it's being taken out of sales. I thought it was because of Skipp, or someone else involved who no longer wants any part of the book. this would cause the book to be redone once again. the cost would not justify it remaining in sales. I guess we will find out sooner or later.

Well ... the only thing that matters (to me) is the truth of his case: that KC was Cooper. I think RMB has not assembled a consistent, truthful case. Moreover, every time one of RMB's so-called facts or witnesses is examined it turns out RMB has misrepresented the facts (and people's actual testimony)! And I am being charitable in this! The reality of RMB's soap opera is probably worse than any of us knows! Blevins has also made it 100% clear this is not just his work but the work of a number of people who call themselves Adventure Books of Seattle, a literal subsidiary of something called: R & G Housecleaning! RMB keeps calling it an "Investigation"! It appears to me to be a 'Committee of the Absurd' which has no real direction or charter, but who keep throwing allegations and personal attacks and claims against a wall, hoping something will stick and grab the attention of what RMB calls "the wage earner sheeple of Amerika'! This isn't an investigation. It's a circus of the absurd!

I just hope everyone here is well-enough informed to know this is not the first time something like this has happened in so-called 'Cooperland'. The Myers-Dvorak debacle over Teddy Mayfield was one previous example. Paul ________ at Vancouver also supporting Kenny was another example. The whole Duane Weber fiasco is another. It goes on and on and on. Marla?

What happens if some day some Cooper twenties actually do turn up in some attic in some old house in Ohio? Then Cooper romantics will be off on one more frantic chase. I don't see that scenario as any more far-fetched than claiming Teddy Mayfield or Kenny Christiansen were DB Cooper?

NEW!: does anyone know how Kenny pronounced his own name 'Christ'-iansen' vs. 'Christiansen' vs. 'Christian-sohn'?  How do Lyle and the other 'Christiansen(s) in that family pronounce their own name? RMB thought I was kidding when I brought Kenny's speech phonology up. I wasn't! Why? Because another "Christiansen" born and raised in MN brought the matter up. Remember Cooper had a "midwestern" accent according to Carr, which is the same as saying "no accent at all" as judged by Tina, Flo, and the crew who heard him talk. I don't have the answer - I don't even pretend to have the answer to this. But another "Christiansen" wonders, and that got me to wondering ... 'christ' iansen', two syllables with a soft 'i' as in 'cyst' in the first syllable 'christ'. ?  But, RMB doesn't want to get into that - he says it's self-evident to him and should be to everyone else. He may be correct but how does anyone know unless someone asks? Not everything is a plot and a conspiracy!(funny)

     
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 16, 2014, 04:18:43 PM
If Kenny sounded anything like Lyle, I think it would be similar to the lion on the wizard of oz. (put'em up, put'em up) I seriously doubt Kenny could be convincing enough to be tough in a dangerous situation. jumping from a zip line years ago will hardly train you to drop right by the accomplice, or should I say, Bernie.

No, he has not shown a consistent story. when truth is revealed he gets all bent out shape and turns it against the person who questions the evidence. they use these tactics in politics.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 16, 2014, 04:35:52 PM
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Although I didn't want any battles going on about Robert, I have asked him more than 4 times on DZ to prove things Coop said were wrong. he only responds by stating he talks to him frequently. he likes to play the sympathy game, but DZ finally caught up to him by warning him about personal attacks. something he constantly claims is directed at him.

I asked him a while ago if Skipps name will be on the free issue, he replied yes. I'm still not sure what he is doing with the book, or why it's being taken out of sales. I thought it was because of Skipp, or someone else involved who no longer wants any part of the book. this would cause the book to be redone once again. the cost would not justify it remaining in sales. I guess we will find out sooner or later.

Did NWA and the FBI look at, interview, consider, inspect, examine, investigate ... employees of NWA? RMB claims they did not. I specifically asked Bruce Kitt about this. Bruce said "yes, that has always been my understanding" . I asked Bruce: "Do you have those NWA investigation  records". Bruce replied, "No! Those NWA records have never been made public and did not pass to Delta when Delta purchased NWA". I asked: "How sure are you NWA employees were investigated either by NWA or the FBI". Bruce replied: "I’m sure. That has always been my understanding" and Bruce did not elaborate further except to say: "My job as NWA historian is not to look for Cooper suspects.  I already have more than enough on my hands ...." I asked Bruce: "Well do you ever plan to try and get those NWA Cooper hijacking records which would detail the NWA investigation into the Cooper hijacking?", and Bruce replied, "I have talked to a few people about that but I'm just not in a position to talk about it now". So I asked Bruce: "Do you think Kenny Christiansen was DB Cooper?", and Bruce replied: "No. And I told Mr. Meltzer that. We had a discussion about that and Brad conveyed that on to the producer who was not happy to hear that and …”

Bruce went on to restate that NWA had its own security system, which along with the FBI looked at NWA employees after the Cooper hijacking. I asked Bruce, "Was Kenny C. investigated at that time?" Bruce replied: "I don't know because I don't have those records to examine ...".



     
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 16, 2014, 04:40:16 PM
They were on the hook for the money. they would be stupid not to look at an inside job. it just doesn't calculate anyway you look at it. you hit another core with Robert doing this call. it obviously interfered with his goal. since he couldn't block the statement, he then pulls the confidential card on the whole thing.

The last post made by Yellow is showing me you were correct on who you think it is :)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 16, 2014, 04:50:40 PM
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If Kenny sounded anything like Lyle, I think it would be similar to the lion on the wizard of oz. (put'em up, put'em up) I seriously doubt Kenny could be convincing enough to be tough in a dangerous situation. jumping from a zip line years ago will hardly train you to drop right by the accomplice, or should I say, Bernie.

No, he has not shown a consistent story. when truth is revealed he gets all bent out shape and turns it against the person who questions the evidence. they use these tactics in politics.

Yes. I know the routine - well.

Actually Myers and Dvorak were a lot more tolerant/saavy. They were absolutely convinced that that Mayfield was Cooper - they went public with it on media in Washington - but they never launched personal attacks on anyone who disagreed or questioned their work. Blevins, in contrast, has been savage in that respect.

Dvorak (I think it was) was suddenly killed in an auto accident and the whole Mayfield thing ended abruptly. Mayfield was actually the Mayor of his community when this started, so he publicly responded!

All things considered, the Myers/Dvorak episode was almost polite by current standards!
 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 16, 2014, 04:52:47 PM
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If Kenny sounded anything like Lyle, I think it would be similar to the lion on the wizard of oz. (put'em up, put'em up) I seriously doubt Kenny could be convincing enough to be tough in a dangerous situation. jumping from a zip line years ago will hardly train you to drop right by the accomplice, or should I say, Bernie.

No, he has not shown a consistent story. when truth is revealed he gets all bent out shape and turns it against the person who questions the evidence. they use these tactics in politics.

Yes. I know the routine - well.

Actually Myers and Dvorak were a lot more tolerant/saavy. They were absolutely convinced that that Mayfield was Cooper - they went public with it on media in Washington - but they never launched personal attacks on anyone who disagreed or questioned their work. Blevins, in contrast, has been savage in that respect.

Dvorak (I think it was) was suddenly killed in an auto accident and the whole Mayfield thing ended abruptly. Mayfield was actually the Mayor of his community when this started, so he publicly responded!

All things considered, the Myers/Dvorak episode was almost polite by current standards!


Did Teddy ever do anything legal against those guys?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on July 16, 2014, 04:58:33 PM
Georger's and Shutter's comments bring these two things to light:

1)  Robert Blevins seems to surround himself with people who cannot be reached, or weigh-in on their own about DBC/KC.  Certainly, Skipp Porteous is Exhibit A.  But how about all of these other "invisible people" who Robert constantly refers to.  The only one that ever weighed-in was Gayla, who posted under an assumed name and was tossed off the forum by Quade.  Where are all of the others?  And why don't they rush to Blevin's defense?  Do they exist in real life, or are they a figment of Mr. Blevin's mind?

2)  I now recall another bit of the radio interview that Mike Fitzsimmons conducted live with Lyle Christianson and myself in November 2007.   Fitzsimmons asked Lyle why he was addressing the Ken Christiaanson story in 2007, and not much earlier, such as the early 1990's.   Lyle response was, "because I'm now retired and had a chance to think about it.  And, I always liked the movie 'Sleepless in Seattle' and thought that the director could do another story similar, but this time with my brother Ken in it, who happens to live in the Seattle area."    Mike Fitzsimmons looked at me in the KXLY radio studio and rolled his eyes.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 16, 2014, 05:16:06 PM
As far as I can tell, the people are real. I've been checking records for a while, along with a few others that have been interested in validating anything of value. we have uncovered a lot that was considered truthful, and confirmed! we are currently looking into to one of the witnesses now. things are surfacing that I don't think Robert was aware of, but we will have a better look at this once the County records are searched. you can only go back so far online. that's what it's all about, confirming a story. I have a feeling lots of things are being said out of context. Robert has shown this many times over the years. this is a direct reason to look into it, and confirm anything said. it has nothing to do with what he tries to make it out to be. I did the same with Marla.


I doubt half of these people know exactly what he is doing online. I can't see them all agreeing to his actions? but then again if you look at the comments on Amazon.com, he shows the same behavior by battling with people on there just as he does on DZ. I think it's in very bad taste to reply to negative comments on a website where you are selling products.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on July 16, 2014, 08:03:50 PM
The thing about Blevins is that his understanding of the DB Cooper case is confused at best.  He doesn't know how the various details of the mystery really fit together because he hasn't bothered to read prior research with any real comprehension.  He throws events of the DBC case out of context and out of the critical timelines.    He's certainly not an investigator with skills.  His inability to make linkages and connections to the case, from details researched by others, is a demonstration of this inability.  He relies on one or two things about Ken Christianson to make his case, as well as his appearance 'one time' on a tv show that was more of a spoof than anything else.  Little wonder why the FBI ignors Blevins.  Guys like Georger have pretty much diluted Blevins participation as a viable inquestor of the facts.  Even with the already researched and known facts out on the table, Blevins is still able to get things wrong, and that's why his comments are endlessly ridiculed and snickered at.  It's hard to get serious attention when you are continually placed on the defensive.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 16, 2014, 08:18:30 PM
I have a friend similar to what Robert does. they take the worse case, and the best case in everything. nothing in between. he is taking things such as the description of Cooper by one of the passengers who gave a height lower than whats on the actual description. I constantly tell him that the descriptions from the passengers differ for the simple fact of not having a reason to remember him. he also goes by police sketches that end up being off. this is due to crimes that lasted seconds, to minutes. this is a much different case. people were with him for hours.

I can't tell you the car in front of me getting gas today, but if he came out shooting, and then took off. it would be a different story.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 16, 2014, 11:39:14 PM
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If Kenny sounded anything like Lyle, I think it would be similar to the lion on the wizard of oz. (put'em up, put'em up) I seriously doubt Kenny could be convincing enough to be tough in a dangerous situation. jumping from a zip line years ago will hardly train you to drop right by the accomplice, or should I say, Bernie.

No, he has not shown a consistent story. when truth is revealed he gets all bent out shape and turns it against the person who questions the evidence. they use these tactics in politics.

Yes. I know the routine - well.

Actually Myers and Dvorak were a lot more tolerant/saavy. They were absolutely convinced that that Mayfield was Cooper - they went public with it on media in Washington - but they never launched personal attacks on anyone who disagreed or questioned their work. Blevins, in contrast, has been savage in that respect.

Dvorak (I think it was) was suddenly killed in an auto accident and the whole Mayfield thing ended abruptly. Mayfield was actually the Mayor of his community when this started, so he publicly responded!

All things considered, the Myers/Dvorak episode was almost polite by current standards!


Did Teddy ever do anything legal against those guys?

No! He was pissed that his life was on display but according to one of the Jones of Vancouver-Tacoma (one of our family lines) it never entered Ted's mind to sue Myers-Dvorak, then it all ended rather quickly. Ted had skeletons in his closet and he had called Himmelsbach the night of the hijacking, according to Teddy to 'offer his services' and assure Himmelsbach the hijacker was not him .... and like KC, Ted does not remotely fit the profile. The whole thing now is an historical anecdote, unless someone brings it all back up. I thought Myers-Dvorak went waaaaaaay over board. When RMB came along I immediately wondered if we were seeing another Myers-Dvorak type inquisition, I even posted to that effect, but it nmever occurred to me we would be here four years later still discussing it! Life can striek twice.


 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 16, 2014, 11:47:09 PM
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As far as I can tell, the people are real. I've been checking records for a while, along with a few others that have been interested in validating anything of value. we have uncovered a lot that was considered truthful, and confirmed! we are currently looking into to one of the witnesses now. things are surfacing that I don't think Robert was aware of, but we will have a better look at this once the County records are searched. you can only go back so far online. that's what it's all about, confirming a story. I have a feeling lots of things are being said out of context. Robert has shown this many times over the years. this is a direct reason to look into it, and confirm anything said. it has nothing to do with what he tries to make it out to be. I did the same with Marla.


I doubt half of these people know exactly what he is doing online. I can't see them all agreeing to his actions? but then again if you look at the comments on Amazon.com, he shows the same behavior by battling with people on there just as he does on DZ. I think it's in very bad taste to reply to negative comments on a website where you are selling products.

I have wondered about that myself: whether his witnesses are remotely aware of his internet activity and what he has been saying the last four years. Bruce Kitt seemed totally unaware of it and off guard. He doesn't know me from Adam but we were able to piece together a pretty good conversation out of the blue! After introducing myself it flashed through my mind if he would take anything I was saying seriously - I half expected him to hang up! Then I thought: 'he will either stay in this conversation or he will think I am some nut case and hang up'. I was at a distinct disadvantage even calling him and I realised that ... and appreciate him talk to me. Underneath it all I didn;'t even want to be getting involved in this!   
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on July 17, 2014, 12:57:58 AM
What's interesting, Georger, is that there are some people like Blevins who throw themselves into a storyline as though they are the real actors.  They play this out in a fantasy and expound on details that aren't factual, but allow just enough of storyline to make themselves feel as though they are participants.  I know that psychiatrists have presented these kinds of psycholigical disturbances in their research and some people refer to it as the "Walter Mitty Syndrome." 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on July 17, 2014, 09:49:04 AM
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As far as I can tell, the people are real. I've been checking records for a while, along with a few others that have been interested in validating anything of value. we have uncovered a lot that was considered truthful, and confirmed! we are currently looking into to one of the witnesses now. things are surfacing that I don't think Robert was aware of, but we will have a better look at this once the County records are searched. you can only go back so far online. that's what it's all about, confirming a story. I have a feeling lots of things are being said out of context. Robert has shown this many times over the years. this is a direct reason to look into it, and confirm anything said. it has nothing to do with what he tries to make it out to be. I did the same with Marla.


I doubt half of these people know exactly what he is doing online. I can't see them all agreeing to his actions? but then again if you look at the comments on Amazon.com, he shows the same behavior by battling with people on there just as he does on DZ. I think it's in very bad taste to reply to negative comments on a website where you are selling products.

I have wondered about that myself: whether his witnesses are remotely aware of his internet activity and what he has been saying the last four years. Bruce Kitt seemed totally unaware of it and off guard. He doesn't know me from Adam but we were able to piece together a pretty good conversation out of the blue! After introducing myself it flashed through my mind if he would take anything I was saying seriously - I half expected him to hang up! Then I thought: 'he will either stay in this conversation or he will think I am some nut case and hang up'. I was at a distinct disadvantage even calling him and I realised that ... and appreciate him talk to me. Underneath it all I didn;'t even want to be getting involved in this!   

One thing you have to say is Robert totally believes his story.  Not only that, he believes that when he lays out his facts everyone should see it just as clearly as he does.  Therefore, someone who disagrees either has an ax to grind, is a liar or is just jealous.

That being said, Robert's account of his relationship with Skip rings true.  Skip wanted to write a book and he didn't have anything besides some interviews with Lyle and Ratazcak.  Robert agreed to do the leg work of adding more witnesses presumably in exchange for half the proceeds.  Their relationship appears to be nothing more than professional (all agree they never met in person).

I think it's Porteous who looks bad for the "Blast" book.  This man is professional private investigator and not only put his name on, but also wrote a preface for a book which makes claims about financial largess, buying houses for cash and lending a lot of money to near strangers.  This book accepts witness' statements at face value and does not do even cursory research into property records.  This is information Shutter and Smokin99 were able to uncover using internet searches.  Doesn't reflect well on Skip as a PI, I don't think.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 17, 2014, 04:29:11 PM
Sadly, I think Skipp just did what Blevins did and relied on what Lyle told him. he should have easily found the documents that were right there for the taking!! It's my opinion that Robert is making a fool out of Skipp. I think Skipp should have told him not to have anything to do with DZ. basically just move on to what ever else he supposedly does with his time. Robert is way to insecure to do anything that has public knowledge. he can't even stay away from negative feedback on Amazon.com. just like he always says, people read those things. reading him argue with people with his reviews is a big no, no. he went 89 comments with one guy. then made himself look worse by removing his comments, but not before the guy screen shot his ass. he learned a lot just from Amazon.com after I read those comments.

He obviously has a problem. he can't even accept his warning on DZ. he had to include another person to establish why it happened? he fails to see the very thing he tries to put on others is the exact M.O. he uses himself. this is my opinion. it's not bashing him. it's me telling what I think of his actions. he can't even admit he was the one who screwed up and got blocked completely from this site. I don't understand how others around him could tolerate his actions....
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 17, 2014, 05:23:41 PM
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What's interesting, Georger, is that there are some people like Blevins who throw themselves into a storyline as though they are the real actors.  They play this out in a fantasy and expound on details that aren't factual, but allow just enough of storyline to make themselves feel as though they are participants.  I know that psychiatrists have presented these kinds of psycholigical disturbances in their research and some people refer to it as the "Walter Mitty Syndrome."

Well ... I have thought from the beginning this is all self-limiting over time; for a number of reasons. These things usually follow the normal bell curve. Years ago I thought 'two years at most', and I was using Myers-Dvork as the paradigm. That theory was dashed completely when RMB started his repetitive re-posting of things said before sprinkled with revisions. I lost count except that it is now into the fourth year! Reposts, revisions, promises of new info, reposts, more revisions ... and then I thought: 'His audience is withering under this blitzkrieg!' And just perhaps this time it has? We are here and he/they are there! One audience walked with its feet. But it has surpassed anything I thought possible ...
 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 17, 2014, 05:27:05 PM
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Sadly, I think Skipp just did what Blevins did and relied on what Lyle told him. he should have easily found the documents that were right there for the taking!! It's my opinion that Robert is making a fool out of Skipp. I think Skipp should have told him not to have anything to do with DZ. basically just move on to what ever else he supposedly does with his time. Robert is way to insecure to do anything that has public knowledge. he can't even stay away from negative feedback on Amazon.com. just like he always says, people read those things. reading him argue with people with his reviews is a big no, no. he went 89 comments with one guy. then made himself look worse by removing his comments, but not before the guy screen shot his ass. he learned a lot just from Amazon.com after I read those comments.

He obviously has a problem. he can't even accept his warning on DZ. he had to include another person to establish why it happened? he fails to see the very thing he tries to put on others is the exact M.O. he uses himself. this is my opinion. it's not bashing him. it's me telling what I think of his actions. he can't even admit he was the one who screwed up and got blocked completely from this site. I don't understand how others around him could tolerate his actions....

I cant even speculate about this Skip Porteous except both Coopsnoop and Gray have had communications with him.

Gray and I never talked about Skipp - it never occurred to me to ask Gray about him etc. I know CSnoop has strong feelings about this. I literally know nothing about this ... which may be a blessing.

It would seem apparent however that something or someone is driving all of this. Who or what that is I don't know.

All I can say is it has gone faaar beyond what I expected in both intensity and staying power, using Myers-Dvorak as the model. Im done making predictions about any of this. For all I know it will go on for another ten or twenty years! 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on July 17, 2014, 06:59:02 PM
I can say this about the real motives of Skipp Porteous and his quest for fame, based on a conversation I had with Skipp back in 2010.  I posed this question to him over the phone:   What would you do, Skipp, if you could produce a $20 bill with DB Cooper serial numbers found from the possessions of Ken Christianson?   Skipp's reply:  ""I" would immediately call a press conference and get national publicity, and 'I' would milk this for all it is worth."   
I will never forget that response.  It was made to me at about the time Skipp's book came out.  And, Skipp never mentioned the name of his co-author Robert Blevins.....not once.   Skipp is in his 70's, retired from investigations, and travels to exotic locations.   His only goal was to get rich as fast as he could, without spending a dime of his own money, or spend the requisite time to solve a major case.   Blevins was a convenient way to get published fast.  Skipp had the name, not Blevins.  Now in an ironic twist of fate, Skipp has moved on and Blevins is fixated and obcessed with the remainder of the Ken Christianson fable, still clinging to the last glimmer of hope that "anyone" will buy into Blevin's fantasies.  Again, these are the facts.  If you don't believe them, pose the questions to Skipp Porteous himself.  Good luck trying to get a reply, though.  Skipp wants no part of the Robert Blevins false crusades.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 17, 2014, 11:35:20 PM
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I can say this about the real motives of Skipp Porteous and his quest for fame, based on a conversation I had with Skipp back in 2010.  I posed this question to him over the phone:   What would you do, Skipp, if you could produce a $20 bill with DB Cooper serial numbers found from the possessions of Ken Christianson?   Skipp's reply:  ""I" would immediately call a press conference and get national publicity, and 'I' would milk this for all it is worth."   
I will never forget that response.  It was made to me at about the time Skipp's book came out.  And, Skipp never mentioned the name of his co-author Robert Blevins.....not once.   Skipp is in his 70's, retired from investigations, and travels to exotic locations.   His only goal was to get rich as fast as he could, without spending a dime of his own money, or spend the requisite time to solve a major case.   Blevins was a convenient way to get published fast.  Skipp had the name, not Blevins.  Now in an ironic twist of fate, Skipp has moved on and Blevins is fixated and obcessed with the remainder of the Ken Christianson fable, still clinging to the last glimmer of hope that "anyone" will buy into Blevin's fantasies.  Again, these are the facts.  If you don't believe them, pose the questions to Skipp Porteous himself.  Good luck trying to get a reply, though.  Skipp wants no part of the Robert Blevins false crusades.

OK. So here's the $32 dollar question (laugh).

What is/was Gray's role in all of this? Porteous had Gray. They were working together, as I understand it. Gray got a referral from Porteous? Correct? Conversations between Gray and Porteous lead to Gray dong research and writing his article on Kenny in The New Yorker? Correct?

Why didn't Gray and Porteous collaborate on a book, and a movie script vs Porteous/RMB ? If you know ...
It would seem to me Gray would be the obvious choice? For one thing Gray had written the Kenny article and done actual research. And Gray had established credentials as a quality writer of some note. Moreover, Gray was going ahead to write another book on the Cooper case and the FBI backed him by giving him direct access to FBI files!

Those are strong credentials, Gray. How did RMB wind up in this affair ???

Let me qualify all of this by saying (a) I have never talked to Geoff about any of this, (b) we don't have Geoff here to ask directly, and (c) I recognise that Geoff might not appreciate our even talking about this in his absence, and maybe we shouldn't be talking about this in his absence? It just seems to me Gray would have been the obvious person to collaborate with Skip Porteous, if the opportunity was ever there . . . ?

I will bow to the Moderator's judgment in whatever direction he thinks is appropriate here - and won't complain in any event! Shutter has my assurance on that!




 

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on July 18, 2014, 12:50:48 AM
Georger, you and I can both agree that Shutter wants the bare truth, no matter how abrasive or inconvenient it may seem to others.  You pose good questions and I can answer in part through direct knowledge and in part through inference.  Skipp Porteous was the investigator paid to find the director of "Sleepless in Seattle" and pass along Lyle Christianson's request for a movie about his brother Ken being DB Cooper.  Enter Gray, a writer for the "New York Magazine" with a story about Ken C. in October 2007.  Gray, or the NYM, came on the scene most likely through Skipp Porteous' efforts to launch a media campaign and put Skipp in the limelight as a bigtime NYC private detective.  That story launched a short-lived, but intense media coverage, and it came close to working for Skipp........but in the end..........no cigar.  It was the interview with Florence Shaffner that got the ball rolling.  Florence, who I've interviewed many times and find to be the least credible of the three flight attendants, made some comments about KC that got Skipp interested in trying to solve the case.  But after talking with Skipp on the phone and exchanging e-mails, I knew that Skipp didn't have the background on DB Cooper, nor the staying power to really explore the depths of the case.  Skipp wanted a fast, headline grabbing conclusion with very little effort.  Skipp also pointed out to me early on that Ken Christianson had some disturbing background (ie, involvement with younger boys).  As Skipp and I talked more, I got the impression that he only wanted star-studded attention as a NY PI with lots of girls surrounding him.  Skipp was not willing to work, that was obvious because many of Skipp's e-mails to me were from the Caribbean, Cancun and the Mediterranean where Skipp was vacationing.  We were both invited out to LA for a film episode of National Geo on the DB Cooper segment.  I declined, but Skipp went to LA and received a very small part in the documentary.  Skipp also saw some deadlines fast approaching.  He wanted to get a book out ASAP.  Enter Blevins.  Adventure Books is a dinky little outfit run by a couple of house cleaners.  The reason why Gray didn't partner with Skipp for a book was most likely because Gray is a professional writer and Skipp is not.  Also, as time went on I'm sure Gray saw the unlikelihood of KC being DBC.  Skipp is an opportunist with a penchant for flair with his all-girl investigative team.  Skipp got Blevins because Blevins was in the proximity of DBC country and was dirt cheap, or, free.  Unfortunately for Skipp, once he figured out what kind of guy he co-authored with, Skipp took off.  Gray didn't have to go through that crap, because Gray already had Blevins figured out.  And I got that from Geoff Gray himself over the phone.  Skipp is wise to Blevins too, it just took him longer to figure it out than it did for Gray.  Lastly, why did the FBI not receive Skipp Porteous, when Skipp tried desperately to get the attention for KC?   The FBI already debunked the KC fable, and wanted nothing more to do with it.  I even asked the agents why they didn't talk to Skipp, especially since Skipp was an investigator and once-time, short-term sheriff's deputy.  The FBI found none of them as credible.  Obviously, each assigned NORJAK agent has their own method with considerable discretion to deal with who they want to.  Tom Kay dealt with Larry Carr.  You, Georger, have also dealt with the FBI.  I've dealt with Eric Mueller, Larry Carr, and most recently, Curtis Eng.  Blevins will never get into the FBI offices, nor will Jo Weber.  And both Geoff Gray and Skipp Porteous know this.
Now, you owe me $32, Georger.  And please don't send me anymore DB Cooper books as payment in-kind. 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 18, 2014, 01:39:52 PM
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Georger, you and I can both agree that Shutter wants the bare truth, no matter how abrasive or inconvenient it may seem to others.  You pose good questions and I can answer in part through direct knowledge and in part through inference.  Skipp Porteous was the investigator paid to find the director of "Sleepless in Seattle" and pass along Lyle Christianson's request for a movie about his brother Ken being DB Cooper.  Enter Gray, a writer for the "New York Magazine" with a story about Ken C. in October 2007.  Gray, or the NYM, came on the scene most likely through Skipp Porteous' efforts to launch a media campaign and put Skipp in the limelight as a bigtime NYC private detective.  That story launched a short-lived, but intense media coverage, and it came close to working for Skipp........but in the end..........no cigar.  It was the interview with Florence Shaffner that got the ball rolling.  Florence, who I've interviewed many times and find to be the least credible of the three flight attendants, made some comments about KC that got Skipp interested in trying to solve the case.  But after talking with Skipp on the phone and exchanging e-mails, I knew that Skipp didn't have the background on DB Cooper, nor the staying power to really explore the depths of the case.  Skipp wanted a fast, headline grabbing conclusion with very little effort.  Skipp also pointed out to me early on that Ken Christianson had some disturbing background (ie, involvement with younger boys).  As Skipp and I talked more, I got the impression that he only wanted star-studded attention as a NY PI with lots of girls surrounding him.  Skipp was not willing to work, that was obvious because many of Skipp's e-mails to me were from the Caribbean, Cancun and the Mediterranean where Skipp was vacationing.  We were both invited out to LA for a film episode of National Geo on the DB Cooper segment.  I declined, but Skipp went to LA and received a very small part in the documentary.  Skipp also saw some deadlines fast approaching.  He wanted to get a book out ASAP.  Enter Blevins.  Adventure Books is a dinky little outfit run by a couple of house cleaners.  The reason why Gray didn't partner with Skipp for a book was most likely because Gray is a professional writer and Skipp is not.  Also, as time went on I'm sure Gray saw the unlikelihood of KC being DBC.  Skipp is an opportunist with a penchant for flair with his all-girl investigative team.  Skipp got Blevins because Blevins was in the proximity of DBC country and was dirt cheap, or, free.  Unfortunately for Skipp, once he figured out what kind of guy he co-authored with, Skipp took off.  Gray didn't have to go through that crap, because Gray already had Blevins figured out.  And I got that from Geoff Gray himself over the phone.  Skipp is wise to Blevins too, it just took him longer to figure it out than it did for Gray.  Lastly, why did the FBI not receive Skipp Porteous, when Skipp tried desperately to get the attention for KC?   The FBI already debunked the KC fable, and wanted nothing more to do with it.  I even asked the agents why they didn't talk to Skipp, especially since Skipp was an investigator and once-time, short-term sheriff's deputy.  The FBI found none of them as credible.  Obviously, each assigned NORJAK agent has their own method with considerable discretion to deal with who they want to.  Tom Kay dealt with Larry Carr.  You, Georger, have also dealt with the FBI.  I've dealt with Eric Mueller, Larry Carr, and most recently, Curtis Eng.  Blevins will never get into the FBI offices, nor will Jo Weber.  And both Geoff Gray and Skipp Porteous know this.
Now, you owe me $32, Georger.  And please don't send me anymore DB Cooper books as payment in-kind.

You confirm one thing for me when you say: "Gray didn't have to go through that crap, because Gray already had
Blevins figured out.  And I got that from Geoff Gray himself over the phone."

I also got the same thing from Gray, over the phone, on multiple occasions. Ive posted about this at DZ, and have been severely attacked for it by RMB. At least you confirm you also had discussion with Geoff and Geoff shared his opinions with you, too. That beats RMB declaring: "It never happened!" which is an astounding claim to make about somebody else.

Of the people who RMB tags as having "the truth about Kenny and Geestman", so far as I know Gray never interviewed any of those people, and nobody else has either. No neutral party has interviewed these people, so far as I know. And why is that? RMB has sent his pdf(s) to the media. Decoded was a public program. And still no followup by any credible news organisation; as there was in the Mayfield (Myers-Dvorak) case. Why is that?

Maybe the news media in Washington is tired of 'random acts of Cooperism' every time somebody surfaces with a claim without any official backing? Marla got attention - and RMB blew his stack and immediately began attacking her! RMB has severely attacked all of his 'perceived competitors'?  NWA Historian Bruce Kitt reports that Decoded producer Kagin "Threw a cow!" when Meltzer told her that Kitt did not believe KC had been DB Cooper.  "So far, RMB has been ignored by everyone in an official position to actually pull some facts out of these people he claims "know the truth" of Kenny and Geestman?  Something is wrong... or just maybe 'something is right and the media has wised up' ?

Random acts of Cooperism chasing phantom suspects! BY Adventure Books, whoever those people actually are?





 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions - Antique Archaeology Notified!
Post by: georger on July 18, 2014, 04:13:54 PM
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Georger, you and I can both agree that Shutter wants the bare truth, no matter how abrasive or inconvenient it may seem to others.  You pose good questions and I can answer in part through direct knowledge and in part through inference.  Skipp Porteous was the investigator paid to find the director of "Sleepless in Seattle" and pass along Lyle Christianson's request for a movie about his brother Ken being DB Cooper.  Enter Gray, a writer for the "New York Magazine" with a story about Ken C. in October 2007.  Gray, or the NYM, came on the scene most likely through Skipp Porteous' efforts to launch a media campaign and put Skipp in the limelight as a bigtime NYC private detective.  That story launched a short-lived, but intense media coverage, and it came close to working for Skipp........but in the end..........no cigar.  It was the interview with Florence Shaffner that got the ball rolling.  Florence, who I've interviewed many times and find to be the least credible of the three flight attendants, made some comments about KC that got Skipp interested in trying to solve the case.  But after talking with Skipp on the phone and exchanging e-mails, I knew that Skipp didn't have the background on DB Cooper, nor the staying power to really explore the depths of the case.  Skipp wanted a fast, headline grabbing conclusion with very little effort.  Skipp also pointed out to me early on that Ken Christianson had some disturbing background (ie, involvement with younger boys).  As Skipp and I talked more, I got the impression that he only wanted star-studded attention as a NY PI with lots of girls surrounding him.  Skipp was not willing to work, that was obvious because many of Skipp's e-mails to me were from the Caribbean, Cancun and the Mediterranean where Skipp was vacationing.  We were both invited out to LA for a film episode of National Geo on the DB Cooper segment.  I declined, but Skipp went to LA and received a very small part in the documentary.  Skipp also saw some deadlines fast approaching.  He wanted to get a book out ASAP.  Enter Blevins.  Adventure Books is a dinky little outfit run by a couple of house cleaners.  The reason why Gray didn't partner with Skipp for a book was most likely because Gray is a professional writer and Skipp is not.  Also, as time went on I'm sure Gray saw the unlikelihood of KC being DBC.  Skipp is an opportunist with a penchant for flair with his all-girl investigative team.  Skipp got Blevins because Blevins was in the proximity of DBC country and was dirt cheap, or, free.  Unfortunately for Skipp, once he figured out what kind of guy he co-authored with, Skipp took off.  Gray didn't have to go through that crap, because Gray already had Blevins figured out.  And I got that from Geoff Gray himself over the phone.  Skipp is wise to Blevins too, it just took him longer to figure it out than it did for Gray.  Lastly, why did the FBI not receive Skipp Porteous, when Skipp tried desperately to get the attention for KC?   The FBI already debunked the KC fable, and wanted nothing more to do with it.  I even asked the agents why they didn't talk to Skipp, especially since Skipp was an investigator and once-time, short-term sheriff's deputy.  The FBI found none of them as credible.  Obviously, each assigned NORJAK agent has their own method with considerable discretion to deal with who they want to.  Tom Kay dealt with Larry Carr.  You, Georger, have also dealt with the FBI.  I've dealt with Eric Mueller, Larry Carr, and most recently, Curtis Eng.  Blevins will never get into the FBI offices, nor will Jo Weber.  And both Geoff Gray and Skipp Porteous know this.
Now, you owe me $32, Georger.  And please don't send me anymore DB Cooper books as payment in-kind.

The check is in the mail...

In the meantime, Mike Wolf of Antique Archaeology (American Pickers) has been notified to start looking - keep an eye out for - DB Cooper $20 twenty dollar bills ... as he sorts through barns, attics, out buildings, basements, old buses, old trains, old cars, old motor cycles, et cetera all around America (and in London and Italy) et cetera !

This is no joke!

 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on July 18, 2014, 06:51:41 PM
...............or maybe in the shopping carts of the homeless?   $20 will suffice, Georger.    EVERYONE by now, has Blevins number.  Invisible, yet, ubiquitous.   Blevins surround himself with "the invisible people."   btw, is Belvis still in the building?????
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on July 20, 2014, 11:17:07 PM
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If Kenny sounded anything like Lyle, I think it would be similar to the lion on the wizard of oz. (put'em up, put'em up) I seriously doubt Kenny could be convincing enough to be tough in a dangerous situation. jumping from a zip line years ago will hardly train you to drop right by the accomplice, or should I say, Bernie.

No, he has not shown a consistent story. when truth is revealed he gets all bent out shape and turns it against the person who questions the evidence. they use these tactics in politics.

Yes. I know the routine - well.

Actually Myers and Dvorak were a lot more tolerant/saavy. They were absolutely convinced that that Mayfield was Cooper - they went public with it on media in Washington - but they never launched personal attacks on anyone who disagreed or questioned their work. Blevins, in contrast, has been savage in that respect.

Dvorak (I think it was) was suddenly killed in an auto accident and the whole Mayfield thing ended abruptly. Mayfield was actually the Mayor of his community when this started, so he publicly responded!

All things considered, the Myers/Dvorak episode was almost polite by current standards!


Mayfield hung up on me when I called him.  "I always get wracked over the coals when I talk about it," he told me.  Then, click.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on July 20, 2014, 11:30:25 PM
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Georger, you and I can both agree that Shutter wants the bare truth, no matter how abrasive or inconvenient it may seem to others.  You pose good questions and I can answer in part through direct knowledge and in part through inference.  Skipp Porteous was the investigator paid to find the director of "Sleepless in Seattle" and pass along Lyle Christianson's request for a movie about his brother Ken being DB Cooper.  Enter Gray, a writer for the "New York Magazine" with a story about Ken C. in October 2007.  Gray, or the NYM, came on the scene most likely through Skipp Porteous' efforts to launch a media campaign and put Skipp in the limelight as a bigtime NYC private detective.  That story launched a short-lived, but intense media coverage, and it came close to working for Skipp........but in the end..........no cigar.  It was the interview with Florence Shaffner that got the ball rolling.  Florence, who I've interviewed many times and find to be the least credible of the three flight attendants, made some comments about KC that got Skipp interested in trying to solve the case.  But after talking with Skipp on the phone and exchanging e-mails, I knew that Skipp didn't have the background on DB Cooper, nor the staying power to really explore the depths of the case.  Skipp wanted a fast, headline grabbing conclusion with very little effort.  Skipp also pointed out to me early on that Ken Christianson had some disturbing background (ie, involvement with younger boys).  As Skipp and I talked more, I got the impression that he only wanted star-studded attention as a NY PI with lots of girls surrounding him.  Skipp was not willing to work, that was obvious because many of Skipp's e-mails to me were from the Caribbean, Cancun and the Mediterranean where Skipp was vacationing.  We were both invited out to LA for a film episode of National Geo on the DB Cooper segment.  I declined, but Skipp went to LA and received a very small part in the documentary.  Skipp also saw some deadlines fast approaching.  He wanted to get a book out ASAP.  Enter Blevins.  Adventure Books is a dinky little outfit run by a couple of house cleaners.  The reason why Gray didn't partner with Skipp for a book was most likely because Gray is a professional writer and Skipp is not.  Also, as time went on I'm sure Gray saw the unlikelihood of KC being DBC.  Skipp is an opportunist with a penchant for flair with his all-girl investigative team.  Skipp got Blevins because Blevins was in the proximity of DBC country and was dirt cheap, or, free.  Unfortunately for Skipp, once he figured out what kind of guy he co-authored with, Skipp took off.  Gray didn't have to go through that crap, because Gray already had Blevins figured out.  And I got that from Geoff Gray himself over the phone.  Skipp is wise to Blevins too, it just took him longer to figure it out than it did for Gray.  Lastly, why did the FBI not receive Skipp Porteous, when Skipp tried desperately to get the attention for KC?   The FBI already debunked the KC fable, and wanted nothing more to do with it.  I even asked the agents why they didn't talk to Skipp, especially since Skipp was an investigator and once-time, short-term sheriff's deputy.  The FBI found none of them as credible.  Obviously, each assigned NORJAK agent has their own method with considerable discretion to deal with who they want to.  Tom Kay dealt with Larry Carr.  You, Georger, have also dealt with the FBI.  I've dealt with Eric Mueller, Larry Carr, and most recently, Curtis Eng.  Blevins will never get into the FBI offices, nor will Jo Weber.  And both Geoff Gray and Skipp Porteous know this.
Now, you owe me $32, Georger.  And please don't send me anymore DB Cooper books as payment in-kind.

Snooper, you've hit the nail on the head about Skippy.  He's as slimy as Blevs.  Skippy lied to me about his relationship with GG, saying that he had never seen him since the initial referral.  I laughed and said, "C'mon, you guys never get together at McSorley and have a beer to talk about the skyjacking?" (McSorley's is the oldest pub in NYC and is a wonderful place.)

GG also plays a strange hand. He is just as opportunistic as Blevs or Skippy.  Lots of folks can't stand GG - the Formans, Rena Ruddell and the whole Barb crew in California.  They tell me that they feel used and deceived by GG.  I find that Geoffrey is a very tough guy to work with.  He only calls ya when he needs something from ya.  When you're on his radar screen he can be very charming and hellpful, though.  He gave m
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on July 21, 2014, 08:34:51 PM
I've got pretty much the same opinion on Gray.  I called him back in early 2008 and he was on the run at the Atlanta Airport and couldn't talk.  I tried again, but couldn't make it work.  I was looking for a lead on Flo Shaffner and I knew Gray had done the 2007 interview with her.  Then, a few years later Gray called me out of the clear blue and asked for the details about Tina Mucklow.  Of course, we spent about 15 minutes on Skipp Porteous and Lyle Christianson first.  Only about one minute on Blevins, as I knew Geoff Gray couldn't stand Blevins or anything about the man.  But what Gray REALLY wanted was how to get in touch with Tina.  It drove Gray nuts that i wouldn't tell him, even though we spent two hours on the horn.  As you know, Bruce, I spent some face time with Tina.  And I know you did as well.  I seriously doubt that Gray did, though.  We both know Tina too well to know that Tina doesn't talk to anybody straight-up about DB Cooper. :)   Tosaw did, back in 1982-or 83.  Jo Weber, ....no.  Jo claims Tina called her on the phone, but we both know it wasn't Tina who made the call to Jo.  As for Abraszinskaz, (Abracadabra) she used to e-mail me regularily right after GG's book came out.  She told me that GG was never privy to the stuff that she and Tom Kaye were privy to.  She told me that Gray put a lot of stuff in his book that just wasn't true.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 22, 2014, 06:24:03 AM
It's really sad to read what that little kid posted last nite on DZ about the show Decoded.

Here is part of what he said:
 "( I just can't wait to see his mugshot and take a picture of Bernie in the jail cell) After that we get on with our lives "

He is so convinced Bernie did this but fails to realize they said in the end they don't believe Bernie had anything to do with the crime. they also stated he wouldn't be prosecuted. this shows how mixed up people can get by reading, or watching something. they become blind to the truth. he has the show on his Ipad. he probably watches it over, and over. it's not healthy what he is doing in my opinion. he has repeatedly spoke of "pissing on Bernie's grave" when he dies. I don't think it's in DZ's best interest to allow a minor to be posting in the first place.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: BuckwheatFlowers on July 24, 2014, 08:26:54 AM
You don't actually believe that is some kid posting that stuff do you?   Blevins' little buddy?  LOL

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It's really sad to read what that little kid posted last nite on DZ about the show Decoded.

Here is part of what he said:
 "( I just can't wait to see his mugshot and take a picture of Bernie in the jail cell) After that we get on with our lives "

He is so convinced Bernie did this but fails to realize they said in the end they don't believe Bernie had anything to do with the crime. they also stated he wouldn't be prosecuted. this shows how mixed up people can get by reading, or watching something. they become blind to the truth. he has the show on his Ipad. he probably watches it over, and over. it's not healthy what he is doing in my opinion. he has repeatedly spoke of "pissing on Bernie's grave" when he dies. I don't think it's in DZ's best interest to allow a minor to be posting in the first place.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: EVickiW on July 24, 2014, 09:52:25 AM
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You don't actually believe that is some kid posting that stuff do you?   Blevins' little buddy?  LOL

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It's really sad to read what that little kid posted last nite on DZ about the show Decoded.

Here is part of what he said:
 "( I just can't wait to see his mugshot and take a picture of Bernie in the jail cell) After that we get on with our lives "

He is so convinced Bernie did this but fails to realize they said in the end they don't believe Bernie had anything to do with the crime. they also stated he wouldn't be prosecuted. this shows how mixed up people can get by reading, or watching something. they become blind to the truth. he has the show on his Ipad. he probably watches it over, and over. it's not healthy what he is doing in my opinion. he has repeatedly spoke of "pissing on Bernie's grave" when he dies. I don't think it's in DZ's best interest to allow a minor to be posting in the first place.

I looked up his mothers Facebook page which is easy to search with Andy's last name with his DZ moniker.  It is semi-private page. However, her Facebook  includes pictures of Andy as well as other family pictures. If I remember correctly, Danielle (Andy's mother) is involved with an Autism Foundation in Atlanta.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on July 24, 2014, 07:02:52 PM
Georger is absolutely correct when he says that Geoff Gray "can't stand" Robert Blevins.  Gray told me the same thing.  Score for Georger!!!!!
Blevins = 0.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on July 24, 2014, 09:32:02 PM
It's amazing that Robert Blevins can bring such a strong reaction.  Did you see the post Vicki made on DZ about the symptoms of Paranoid Personality Disorder?  I just said "Wow!' when I read it.

Especially this:

"Their combative and suspicious nature may elicit a hostile response in others, which then serves to confirm their original expectations."

This was all posted earlier.   The case against Christiansen isn't just weak, it's non-existant.  No criminal background.  No witnesses claiming he's DB Cooper.  Claims of financial largess have been shown to be either great exaggerations or outright falsehoods.

I'm as guilty of it as anyone, but I have to wonder:  Why do we bother responding to Robert at all?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 24, 2014, 10:01:28 PM
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It's amazing that Robert Blevins can bring such a strong reaction.  Did you see the post Vicki made on DZ about the symptoms of Paranoid Personality Disorder?  I just said "Wow!' when I read it.

Especially this:

"Their combative and suspicious nature may elicit a hostile response in others, which then serves to confirm their original expectations."

This was all posted earlier.   The case against Christiansen isn't just weak, it's non-existant.  No criminal background.  No witnesses claiming he's DB Cooper.  Claims of financial largess have been shown to be either great exaggerations or outright falsehoods.

I'm as guilty of it as anyone, but I have to wonder:  Why do we bother responding to Robert at all?


It's a hard question to answer. he has so much anger, jealousy, spite, etc. etc. it's hard not to respond sometimes. he sets it up that way. he flip flops on everything he says from what will be shown at the theater, to what he says about this site. originally he didn't like being told where he can go, or not go. then it was Cook, and topping it off by stating nobody can see the site, or see it in schools. oh yea, I'm sure the teacher would put DZ into the classroom? he complains about this site so much it's eating him up. he should focus on trying to get his little part time writing gig going instead of policing the internet. he can't even get that off the ground. it's sad really, but he ask's for a lot of it. he doesn't realize half the things he complains about is his M.O. It's all about the views with Robert. I've told him dozens of times the site was not designed to have thousands of views. sure I would like to see more people posting, but there is only so much Cooper to discuss. it just doesn't run 24/7 when you take the bickering away on DZ. not a lot will be said. 377 tries really hard to change the subject, but as long as they allow things to continue the way they do. nothing will change.

Now, we have been discussing Robert here, lets keep it civil. we don't need to jump down to his level of conversation. what I said above are my opinions of Robert. he put himself in the position he is in all by himself. I can't help it if he can't defend himself here. that's his fault again. he will blast it all over DZ anyway.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on July 24, 2014, 10:09:38 PM
MB:
That's a good question.  Georger could probably answer best.  Likely answers:  It has become a DZ sport; Robert Blevins is a glutton for punishment; a test to see how the psychiatrically fragile can hold up, and for how long; It gives Jo Weber eternal hope; It proves that Bruce Smith can really write well; it shows that the indefensible can still be defended (but not on any substantial grounds); and most importantly, it demonstrates how far Skipp Porteous is willing to "run" away from his former co-author.  Finally, the Robert Blevins and Ken Christistianson debacle has absolutely NOTHING to do with DB Cooper.  The entire thing is a dreamed-up, contrived, and fraudulently compelled fantasy in RMB's mind.  But RMB is willing to gamble all of the above because he thinks his "legend" lives on.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on July 26, 2014, 03:56:29 AM
To Bruce Smith:

Hey you weasel, I just received word from the state of Florida and they are going to look into the "matter."  I think you know what I'm refering to.  Also, Skipp Porteous is willing to meet with you and I next month and he will "tell all" about Robert Blevins.  You have first scoop for your Mountain News.  Porteous claims he has nothing to do with his former co-author, and is very embarrassed that there ever was an association.  He says that Blevins lives in dreamland. You'll get the straight Skippy.  Oh, Hancock is coming out to Seattle and she informs me that she's still single.  If I introduce you to her, you promise to be nice?  She's still pretty hot.  See you soon, bud.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 26, 2014, 11:22:34 AM
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To Bruce Smith:

Hey you weasel, I just received word from the state of Florida and they are going to look into the "matter."  I think you know what I'm refering to.  Also, Skipp Porteous is willing to meet with you and I next month and he will "tell all" about Robert Blevins.  You have first scoop for your Mountain News.  Porteous claims he has nothing to do with his former co-author, and is very embarrassed that there ever was an association.  He says that Blevins lives in dreamland. You'll get the straight Skippy.  Oh, Hancock is coming out to Seattle and she informs me that she's still single.  If I introduce you to her, you promise to be nice?  She's still pretty hot.  See you soon, bud.


Can you provide any kind of proof about dealing with Skipp? Robert will simply claim you are not telling the truth about this. a screenshot of an email would do it. I have enough accusations on my plate right now. also, in the future, if we have anything to say on this matter that it really isn't connected to suspects and confessions, we should post it on totally off topic. Roberts drama doesn't fit into this category.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on July 26, 2014, 03:57:31 PM
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To Bruce Smith:

Hey you weasel, I just received word from the state of Florida and they are going to look into the "matter."  I think you know what I'm refering to.  Also, Skipp Porteous is willing to meet with you and I next month and he will "tell all" about Robert Blevins.  You have first scoop for your Mountain News.  Porteous claims he has nothing to do with his former co-author, and is very embarrassed that there ever was an association.  He says that Blevins lives in dreamland. You'll get the straight Skippy.  Oh, Hancock is coming out to Seattle and she informs me that she's still single.  If I introduce you to her, you promise to be nice?  She's still pretty hot.  See you soon, bud.


Alice?  Whoa - I'll promise to just about anything, Snakey...

I'd also love to meet with Skippy.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on July 27, 2014, 03:57:24 AM
I'll arrange for it, Bruce.  Blevins is not going to visit Skipp, I already know that.  Blevins is just a windbag with no game.  It's easy to call others "liars," while not being able to produce anything of value in the case.  Blevins has produced zilch.  He borrows a few lines from others and throws up a re-printed version as if it was his own.  Old story.  If Skipp was honored to have a guy like Blevins as a co-author, you would have heard from Skipp.  But dead silence.  No one has heard from Skipp.  The two have never even met after five years, and untold re-writes and corrections to the original book.  This is a classic case of one co-author telling the other co-author to "get lost."  Same goes for Blevin's promises to interview Bill Rataczak and William Mitchell.  Nada.  Blevins can't even find Mitchell.  That tells me that Blevins isn't much of an investigator.  He couldn't find Tina Mucklow either.  Of course, the folks at the WA State History Museum didn't want Blevins anywhere near their symposium.  Clyde Lewis thinks Blevins is a dimwit.  Oregon Kickass History don't want Blevins around either.  Why all this anti-Blevins sentiment?  Because no one believes him or trusts him.  He's a fool who posts endless messages about himself.  Meglamaniac without any credentials.   It's actually sick and pathetic.  Fortunately, folks like Georger, Bruce, Shutter, Vicki, Robt99, etc., have Blevins number.  Blevins is a fraud without a party to crash.  He's spent.  He might be good for some light house cleaning, as Georger so eloquently reminds us of.  If there's trash and scrum on the floor, it's "time to call Bob."   Hope you had fun reading this resume I produced for you, Bob.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 27, 2014, 02:59:40 PM
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I'll arrange for it, Bruce.  Blevins is not going to visit Skipp, I already know that.  Blevins is just a windbag with no game.  It's easy to call others "liars," while not being able to produce anything of value in the case.  Blevins has produced zilch.  He borrows a few lines from others and throws up a re-printed version as if it was his own.  Old story.  If Skipp was honored to have a guy like Blevins as a co-author, you would have heard from Skipp.  But dead silence.  No one has heard from Skipp.  The two have never even met after five years, and untold re-writes and corrections to the original book.  This is a classic case of one co-author telling the other co-author to "get lost."  Same goes for Blevin's promises to interview Bill Rataczak and William Mitchell.  Nada.  Blevins can't even find Mitchell.  That tells me that Blevins isn't much of an investigator.  He couldn't find Tina Mucklow either.  Of course, the folks at the WA State History Museum didn't want Blevins anywhere near their symposium.  Clyde Lewis thinks Blevins is a dimwit.  Oregon Kickass History don't want Blevins around either.  Why all this anti-Blevins sentiment?  Because no one believes him or trusts him.  He's a fool who posts endless messages about himself.  Meglamaniac without any credentials.   It's actually sick and pathetic.  Fortunately, folks like Georger, Bruce, Shutter, Vicki, Robt99, etc., have Blevins number.  Blevins is a fraud without a party to crash.  He's spent.  He might be good for some light house cleaning, as Georger so eloquently reminds us of.  If there's trash and scrum on the floor, it's "time to call Bob."   Hope you had fun reading this resume I produced for you, Bob.

We know that everything RMB says and does is factually empty , except for its emotional prurient content. His appeal, or lack of appeal, is therefore nonfactual, except that it might jar loose facts that are not known; about an individual or situation. I guess some people call that "muckraking"?   This is why Ive always classified much of what RMB posts as "smut" and RMB has made it painfully clear he doesn't care who he hurts, what people think, or the consequences of his words. RMB is the kind of guy who could come on to a forum and call some innocuous person a "baby killer" and get away with it, and RMB has done this countless times on DZ and gotten away with it, and several on DZ even praise him for it! That indicates to me there is a huge unfilled vacuum at DZ which 2 or 3 people are filling
and just imagine, if you will, what would have happened if SA Carr and RMB had both been on DZ at the same time! There would have been chaos and explosion after explosion with the Moderator coming down on who - SA Carr! And this is precisely what happened between Weber and Carr on DZ. Carr was put down hard by the Moderator! Weber was allowed to spin out all the venom she wanted! And at length Weber even tried to get Carr fired and she sent out emails to a number of people including me announcing that "Carr has been fired!". (of course we all called Carr immediately to find out what in hell was going on).

DZ has firmly established itself as the Conspiracy Theory School of DB Cooper geo-economics! Factual content and discussion/debate died after 2008 and Carr left, and the content since 2010 has been strictly ideological and personal. And what can partly turn that around? A new viable theory can.

Sailshaw's recently announced theory is interesting and could have substance on several grounds: Sail contends that Cossey and Peterson knew each other on a far deeper personal level, than has been explored to date. That they might have been co-conspirators in the Cooper hijacking and were in positions to do this. We already know that they knew each other and had rather intense feelings for each other, for some reason. Both were conceivably in positions to be able to plan and perform a hijacking - in stark contrast to Mssrs Christiansen and Geestman who RMB contends were conspirators and did the Cooper hijacking! The contrast between Sail's hypothesis and Blevins' knee-jerk concoction is huge and substantive!

I just want to suggest this might be worth exploring if for no other reason than to begin to get out of the rut RMB and others at Dropzone have dug, for the whole Cooper community? It's a thought and Sailshaw's theory is the best theory Ive heard in a _very_long_while! There is no question that Peterson and Cossey had a relationship but the nature of that relationship is unexplored? We know the FBI looked at Peterson and apparently dismissed Peterson on 'genetic' grounds, or did they? Perhaps Sail could give us further direction in this whole matter -   

It seems to me we know people in the skydiving community who knew both Cossey and Peterson who should be able to give us direction on precisely what Cossey's and Peterson's relationship was with each other - that might be a place to start?

 

     
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on July 27, 2014, 04:51:06 PM
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It seems to me we know people in the skydiving community who knew both Cossey and Peterson who should be able to give us direction on precisely what Cossey's and Peterson's relationship was with each other - that might be a place to start?

 

   

That's interesting....But my question would be -- even if Cossey were in cahoots with Peterson, how would he know that he would be the one called to provide the parachutes?  Maybe that doesn't matter.  But, if it doesn't what part could Cossey have played in the hijacking.  I'd be curious to hear where you're going with this line of thought.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 27, 2014, 05:28:49 PM
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It seems to me we know people in the skydiving community who knew both Cossey and Peterson who should be able to give us direction on precisely what Cossey's and Peterson's relationship was with each other - that might be a place to start?   

That's interesting....But my question would be -- even if Cossey were in cahoots with Peterson, how would he know that he would be the one called to provide the parachutes?  Maybe that doesn't matter.  But, if it doesn't what part could Cossey have played in the hijacking.  I'd be curious to hear where you're going with this line of thought.

Sailshaw should answer this -

Go back and read Sail's post about this ... its a few posts back.

Presumably Cossey winds up providing/packing the chutes used and serving as a consultant to the FBI by mere
accident! Remember, the chutes were originally supposed to come from McChord, but that fell through. Cossey winds up playing a dual role by accident and is never suspected.  Cossey threw the dice and won, in effect! But somebody is going to have to establish a strong known relationship btwn Cossey and Peterson.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on July 27, 2014, 06:51:49 PM
Georger:   You say: "I just want to suggest this might be worth exploring if for no other reason than to begin to get out of the rut RMB and others at Dropzone have dug, for the whole Cooper community? It's a thought and Sailshaw's theory is the best theory Ive heard in a _very_long_while! There is no question that Peterson and Cossey had a relationship but the nature of that relationship is unexplored? We know the FBI looked at Peterson and apparently dismissed Peterson on 'genetic' grounds, or did they? Perhaps Sail could give us further direction in this whole matter "

I say:   Cossey was very quick to disclaim that he knew Peterson when I was talking with Cossey about having a lunch date. When I asked about Peterson, Cossey froze-up and would have nothing more to do with me. Just like he was afraid that I was on to him and Peterson. My mind works overtime while I sleep and came up with the part Cossey could have played was the ground man and the launder of the loot through his may Gambling places. That would have left Peterson with out the loot (evidence) and free to travel back to Nepal. Cossey would have probably not done a good job of "investing" the loot and it ran out after 40 years. Peterson and I had a conversation when he was living at my home about how to beat the system and how much money it would take. What is very interesting is that we thought $200 K would be enough to invest and live forever on it. My way of beating the system was to work and save it from wages. Peterson might have been thinking about hijacking for the $200 K rather than saving it. He never mentioned how he might save the basic amount. It very well could have been how Peterson as DB came up with the $200 K number. I was able to double the amount in my 401K and invest it and it is doing quite well and at 80 years old, it only needs to last 20 more years or less. Peterson and I joked about the basic amount being like the Smoo from Little Abner that regrew when you cut away a part to eat. It really works that was too. However, I think Cossey used the money up and had some explaining to do with Sheridan Peterson. Could Sheridan flown up to Seattle to have an eyeball to eyeball talk with Cossey and a fight take place and ended with Cossey turning to go back into his house and Sheridan in a rage picked-up a wrench and hit him in the back of the head. Sheridan suffered the scars of his being beat on at that time. Could that have been from fighting Cossey? I have passed my theory on to the Sheriff Dept covering the Cossey murder and that they should be looking for DNA and finger prints that match what the FBI has on Sheridan.
Did the FBI write off Sheridan as DB because his DNA did not match that on the tie left behind? Don't think they really think the tie DNA is really very good. Do the FBI buy Sheridan's story of being in Nepal at the time of Norjak? If they did they would have not investigated him any further, but they did. Why don't the FBI get the DNA from under the stamps/envelope flaps of the four letters to the newspapers?  There could be many reasons including it would be an embarsement that they overlook the obvious evidence on the letters and were walking down their investigation trail with their blinders on.   
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw00@gmail.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 27, 2014, 11:24:28 PM
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Georger:   You say: "I just want to suggest this might be worth exploring if for no other reason than to begin to get out of the rut RMB and others at Dropzone have dug, for the whole Cooper community? It's a thought and Sailshaw's theory is the best theory Ive heard in a _very_long_while! There is no question that Peterson and Cossey had a relationship but the nature of that relationship is unexplored? We know the FBI looked at Peterson and apparently dismissed Peterson on 'genetic' grounds, or did they? Perhaps Sail could give us further direction in this whole matter "

I say:   Cossey was very quick to disclaim that he knew Peterson when I was talking with Cossey about having a lunch date. When I asked about Peterson, Cossey froze-up and would have nothing more to do with me. Just like he was afraid that I was on to him and Peterson. My mind works overtime while I sleep and came up with the part Cossey could have played was the ground man and the launder of the loot through his may Gambling places. That would have left Peterson with out the loot (evidence) and free to travel back to Nepal. Cossey would have probably not done a good job of "investing" the loot and it ran out after 40 years. Peterson and I had a conversation when he was living at my home about how to beat the system and how much money it would take. What is very interesting is that we thought $200 K would be enough to invest and live forever on it. My way of beating the system was to work and save it from wages. Peterson might have been thinking about hijacking for the $200 K rather than saving it. He never mentioned how he might save the basic amount. It very well could have been how Peterson as DB came up with the $200 K number. I was able to double the amount in my 401K and invest it and it is doing quite well and at 80 years old, it only needs to last 20 more years or less. Peterson and I joked about the basic amount being like the Smoo from Little Abner that regrew when you cut away a part to eat. It really works that was too. However, I think Cossey used the money up and had some explaining to do with Sheridan Peterson. Could Sheridan flown up to Seattle to have an eyeball to eyeball talk with Cossey and a fight take place and ended with Cossey turning to go back into his house and Sheridan in a rage picked-up a wrench and hit him in the back of the head. Sheridan suffered the scars of his being beat on at that time. Could that have been from fighting Cossey? I have passed my theory on to the Sheriff Dept covering the Cossey murder and that they should be looking for DNA and finger prints that match what the FBI has on Sheridan.
Did the FBI write off Sheridan as DB because his DNA did not match that on the tie left behind? Don't think they really think the tie DNA is really very good. Do the FBI buy Sheridan's story of being in Nepal at the time of Norjak? If they did they would have not investigated him any further, but they did. Why don't the FBI get the DNA from under the stamps/envelope flaps of the four letters to the newspapers?  There could be many reasons including it would be an embarsement that they overlook the obvious evidence on the letters and were walking down their investigation trail with their blinders on.   
Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw00@gmail.com

A lot of what-ifs and possible interpretations in there. Without a hard search for evidence it may not go any further than conjecture. I would caution: don't think just because Cossey blows you off abruptly at the mention of Peterson, this means Cossey had some deep relationship with Peterson. It could be Cossey simply did not want to be associated with Peterson, who is controversial on his own. It could be Cossey was simply trying to avoid a problem, where none existed. What was the relationship btwn Cossey and Peterson, if any!

Isn't Peterson a sick old man? Could he travel to Seattle and murder Cossey? Why would Peterson surface 40 years late in a still existing quarrel over the hijacking money? Did Peterson travel north around the time of Cossey's murder - did Peterson travel at all during that period?

I do wonder if the FBI checked Cossey out thoroughly?

I think you raise some very valid questions but I caution not to let speculation form conclusions without hard evidence. We all know where that leads! Fact is, you know that already ... good luck.

Thanks!
G   
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on July 28, 2014, 01:13:03 AM
The next clue I'd like to figure out is, what did Marla have that caused the FBI to spend time and money to research.  They'd done little of that for years.

I wonder if Marla gave them something matching some evidence that wasn't released previously.  I doubt she even knew what it was.  She had only snippets of a story and when she tried to "recover" more memories they just didn't fit.  But, she must have had something that piqued their interest.  We'll probably never find out what that was.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on July 28, 2014, 01:14:34 AM
I'm actually meeting with the agents in two weeks.  I'll put the entire Blevin's bullshit stories on the table with them.  And I may have a little free time to bring a few friends over to the Auburn Days and listen to Blevins first hand.  Bruce: you might want to bring Sailshaw with you.  I understand its on Saturday, August 9th.  Let's see what this Blevins guy really has.  Can't wait. See you guys there.  Georger:  I'll be in touch just before the 9th. 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on July 28, 2014, 10:26:47 AM
Georger  you say: " Why would Peterson surface 40 years late in a still existing quarrel over the hijacking money? "

I say:  You must have skipped over what I said, that Cossey might have been the launder and investor of the loot that was to last many years and grow in size. When the loot and investment ran out after 40 years, I think Sheridan would have traveled to be eyeball to eyeball with Cossey and find out what happened to the investment. Sheridan is getting old (around 90 years old) but could have traveled to Seattle to talk and when a fight took place (around that time Sheridan took a beating to his body someway) with Cossey walking away and getting hit in the back of his head from Sheridan's anger and not a planned killing. Just my thought on what could have happened.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw00@gmail.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 28, 2014, 02:10:21 PM
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Georger  you say: " Why would Peterson surface 40 years late in a still existing quarrel over the hijacking money? "

I say:  You must have skipped over what I said, that Cossey might have been the launder and investor of the loot that was to last many years and grow in size. When the loot and investment ran out after 40 years, I think Sheridan would have traveled to be eyeball to eyeball with Cossey and find out what happened to the investment. Sheridan is getting old (around 90 years old) but could have traveled to Seattle to talk and when a fight took place (around that time Sheridan took a beating to his body someway) with Cossey walking away and getting hit in the back of his head from Sheridan's anger and not a planned killing. Just my thought on what could have happened.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw00@gmail.com

First, I have to say this: I'm not arguing with you, or anyone about this or any other aspect of the Cooper matter. It's not personal with me. I just think you've raised a very compelling idea, but it's a complex theory that will require hard proof...

Second, place Sheridan in WA around the date of Cossey's murder.

Third: Prove a relationship between Cossey and Sheridan Peterson.

I wonder if Cossey ever speculated about who he thought Cooper might have been?

You have a lot to research and prove - and that's an understatement!
 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 28, 2014, 05:30:26 PM
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The next clue I'd like to figure out is, what did Marla have that caused the FBI to spend time and money to research.  They'd done little of that for years.

I wonder if Marla gave them something matching some evidence that wasn't released previously.  I doubt she even knew what it was.  She had only snippets of a story and when she tried to "recover" more memories they just didn't fit.  But, she must have had something that piqued their interest.  We'll probably never find out what that was.


Personally, I think it was a mixture of things. the best thing I think she had was law enforcement backing up her story, or helping in produce it to the FBI. she presents herself very well, and could be convincing. anyway you look at it, I think she made things worse for all of us by fooling the FBI, or allowing them to jump to conclusions. obviously they didn't do enough research on her, or LD's background. LD had a paper trail all over the place. this wouldn't be the case for someone "in hiding" lots of things didn't add up after her story was full blown. I do agree with Blevins that she had a goal (similar to his) a book, and public acknowledgement, and she also wanted to play the part of herself in a movie/show.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on July 28, 2014, 08:07:46 PM
Sail:
You wanted to meet.  Get ahold of Bruce Smith and arrange to meet me at the Auburn Days shindig on Saturday, August 9th.  I'm taking a few more people with me, so that we can all confront Blevins first hand.  We have a surprise guest for Blevins too.  It WILL be good.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on July 28, 2014, 08:19:06 PM
ha.......thanks for the private message, Shutter.  No, I'm not kidding about going to Auburn.  Actually I can't wait.  And the surprise guest........no, it's not Skipp.   I'll be visiting him soon though.  The surprise guest?   OK, his initials are BG.   Gotta go.  See you guys in Auburn at the THEATER, or wherever he'll be hiding out.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on July 28, 2014, 10:36:40 PM
Snooper, if you bring Bernie that might be a jolly good time.

See you on the 9th.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on July 28, 2014, 11:08:22 PM
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Georger  you say: " Why would Peterson surface 40 years late in a still existing quarrel over the hijacking money? "

I say:  You must have skipped over what I said, that Cossey might have been the launder and investor of the loot that was to last many years and grow in size. When the loot and investment ran out after 40 years, I think Sheridan would have traveled to be eyeball to eyeball with Cossey and find out what happened to the investment. Sheridan is getting old (around 90 years old) but could have traveled to Seattle to talk and when a fight took place (around that time Sheridan took a beating to his body someway) with Cossey walking away and getting hit in the back of his head from Sheridan's anger and not a planned killing. Just my thought on what could have happened.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw00@gmail.com


The last rumor that I heard about Petey's health and ability to travel is that Petey traveled to Atlanta several years ago in the company of his daughter to attend his son's wedding.  Who took care of whom is unclear, as Ginger has her own issues.

Currently, all indications I got from Petey's neighbors is that Sheridan is quite frail and has significant cognitive impairments.  He was unable to take care of himself in a senior apartment complex. His next-door-neighbor told me that his apartment was a total wreck and had to be gutted after he got kicked out for living in an unsanitary manner.

He also had cancer in one eye, reportedly, although that has stabilized.  I have no idea what his current health situation is, but it is widely believed that he is in some kind of assisted-living situation in Santa Rosa.

Petey is really afraid, too.  He hung up on me, and in emails he consistently accused me of being a CIA/FBI dupe.  377, too.

Sheridan Peterson is thoroughly unreliable at this point. Nothing he has told me checks out.  The only thing that is corroborated is that he lived with Sail for 30 days in 1961, and now Petey denies that. Also, he was an English teacher at Lake Washington High School in the mid-sixties.  He was also a freelance reporter with the Eastside Journal during the same time period, but he did fluff pieces, such as HS sports, according to his friend and co-writer that I contacted in Tacoma several years ago.

Did he kill Cossey? I seriously doubt it. Did he want to? Maybe, if he could remember him. They clearly have secrets and I do believe that they knew each other. Everybody in the skydiving community that I know, knows of Earl Cossey.  Everyone.

As for Cossey, he can't tell the truth at all. He may have shut down Sail for the same reasons he didn't want to meet with me - greater control over his narrative.

To whit: Coss totally bamboozled the FBI over the chutes.  First it was an NB-6, then it was a 28-foot canopy stuffed into an NB-6 rig, and lastly it was an NB-8. Every time I talked with Coss he had a slightly different story.

Carr believed the NB-6 story, but clearly Larry didn't read his own department's notes on Hayden, as Larry fully believed that Coss owned the chutes.  In addition, Larry never talked with Geoffrey Gray about the Hayden matter, nor did GG know how big a find his Hayden discovery was!  And still doesn't since he never talks about it!!!

In fact, GG is participating fully in the re-creation of the Cossey legacy, and currently writing that Cossey believed that DB Cooper made a successful jump and that it wasn't too tricky an endeavor.

That is totally opposite of what Cossey told me.  Coss was adamant that Cooper died in the jump and was an incompetent jerk who no-pulled.  In fact, what Cossey told me about Cooper is exactly what Petey told the FBI cuties when they talked with him in Santa Rosa back in 2002-3. So those two were certainly reading off the same script. Did they write it together?  Or were they acting in someone's else's escapade?

Further, we have not been able to confirm Petey's participation in the Marines, Boeing, caves in Nepal, or travels throughout Asia. Nor do we know anything about his stated work history for US defense contractors in California, although I have not explored that angle.

Petey's brother disbelieves everything about Sheridan. In turn, Petey can't stand him, and hates his wife.

As for Cossey, his many friends loved him, but every time I spoke with him and throughout all of my professional observations of him, such as on talk radio shows, my impressions was clearly that he was a lying sonofabitch who liked the spotlight.  I've spoken to a number of people who crossed paths with Cossey on the Path to DB Cooper, such as during film shoots, and they had nothing complimentary to say about the guy.  I sensed he was very isolated once his glory days as a jumper were over, but still hungry for fame.

Was Coss Cooper's accomplice? I don't think so.

Was Petey the skyjacker? I don't think so.

But I know there are a lot of secrets here to be explored.

My trip to Oregon with Sail to see the King of Blowhards, Ralph Hedley, might turn up something along these lines.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Robert99 on July 28, 2014, 11:33:55 PM
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My trip to Oregon with Sail to see the King of Blowhards, Ralph Hedley, might turn up something along these lines.

Bruce,

Any meeting with Ralph Hedley is going to be a waste of time, or probably worse, if he finds out about the above remark before you get there.  Had you even heard of him prior to the last few days?

If you maintain the above attitude in a meeting with him, I suggest you be sure to keep your full-mask football helmet on and be wearing an armor plated jock strap.  The meeting could have serious adverse consequences for you.

Robert99

 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 28, 2014, 11:49:40 PM
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The next clue I'd like to figure out is, what did Marla have that caused the FBI to spend time and money to research.  They'd done little of that for years.

I wonder if Marla gave them something matching some evidence that wasn't released previously.  I doubt she even knew what it was.  She had only snippets of a story and when she tried to "recover" more memories they just didn't fit.  But, she must have had something that piqued their interest.  We'll probably never find out what that was.


Personally, I think it was a mixture of things. the best thing I think she had was law enforcement backing up her story, or helping in produce it to the FBI. she presents herself very well, and could be convincing. anyway you look at it, I think she made things worse for all of us by fooling the FBI, or allowing them to jump to conclusions. obviously they didn't do enough research on her, or LD's background. LD had a paper trail all over the place. this wouldn't be the case for someone "in hiding" lots of things didn't add up after her story was full blown. I do agree with Blevins that she had a goal (similar to his) a book, and public acknowledgement, and she also wanted to play the part of herself in a movie/show.

Yes, a law enforcement officer referred the matter to the FBI _ without that she may have gone nowhere. As I understand this the LE person thought LD fit the 'barnstormer/novice' profile of Cooper.

I am also not sure she fooled anyone at the FBI. Press releases sometimes get out ahead of an actual case. The press release may have been a disconnect with the actual investigation. Without a doubt Marla milked the press release. She was writing a  book _ aren't they all? There came a point where the door was shut with no further press releases followed by total silence which persists to this day. That may be the real story catching up to publicity.
   
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 28, 2014, 11:55:13 PM
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ha.......thanks for the private message, Shutter.  No, I'm not kidding about going to Auburn.  Actually I can't wait.  And the surprise guest........no, it's not Skipp.   I'll be visiting him soon though.  The surprise guest?   OK, his initials are BG.   Gotta go.  See you guys in Auburn at the THEATER, or wherever he'll be hiding out.

BG? You mean Buca Gratzi, nephew of Luca Brasi ?  Good grief!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on July 29, 2014, 02:24:52 AM
No Georger, not Gratzi.  Bruce, you let the cat out of the bag too soon.  Actually, I'm bringing along TWO mystery guests.  Yes, one is BG himself.  The other is a very large PROCESS SERVER.   I'm calling this operation:  BG's revenge.   See you at Auburn everyone.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on July 29, 2014, 02:50:08 AM
ps....
Bruce, bring your tape recorder, pen and paper.  This will be your BIGGEST story to date.  I've got the radio talk show host coming up for a live remote audio.  And yes, the video team will also be there.  Looks like he'll get his dream wish about being in the movies.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 30, 2014, 04:03:08 PM
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ps....
Bruce, bring your tape recorder, pen and paper.  This will be your BIGGEST story to date.  I've got the radio talk show host coming up for a live remote audio.  And yes, the video team will also be there.  Looks like he'll get his dream wish about being in the movies.


Two things here. first, this doesn't belong in suspects and confessions. second, you need to back some of this up. I don't mind a little fun, but this is getting out of hand again. what talk show host is going to be there? what proof do you have of Geestman showing up at Auburn? I need to see some validation, or these posts will be removed.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on July 30, 2014, 07:39:20 PM
Shutter:  Appreciate your concern and very sorry for the inconvenience.  It is necessary that all communications between Geestman and I stay privileged and confidential at this point.  I'll refrain from further postings under this header.  If you chat with Bruce, tell him to paste-up photos of both Geestman and Sail into that already widely circulated photo owned and copyrighted by Bruce.  If "wanted" posters start popping up around downtown Auburn, or at the Theater, I want to make sure all accomplices are given full credit.  Adious
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on July 30, 2014, 07:52:32 PM
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Shutter:  Appreciate your concern and very sorry for the inconvenience.  It is necessary that all communications between Geestman and I stay privileged and confidential at this point.  I'll refrain from further postings under this header.  If you chat with Bruce, tell him to paste-up photos of both Geestman and Sail into that already widely circulated photo owned and copyrighted by Bruce.  If "wanted" posters start popping up around downtown Auburn, or at the Theater, I want to make sure all accomplices are given full credit.  Adious


I would like to see proof of any of this. it's really no different than Cooper evidence. people want to see something valid. if it's all true, I'll be glad to support the issue. as it stands right now, I don't see anything that can be used against what Robert is claiming. it's the old "he said, she said" thingy. Robert is claiming it's not true, while you are claiming things to be true. it's going nowhere.

If you have something of value you can post it. please do it under another topic such as " Totally Off Topic" I would be more than happy to see something about this, but I need proof before it goes onto this site.....I'm sure I don't have to remind people I'm currently in my own battle of false accusations. it's not funny at all, and I don't like it one bit.

Thank You.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 30, 2014, 11:44:03 PM
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Shutter:  Appreciate your concern and very sorry for the inconvenience.  It is necessary that all communications between Geestman and I stay privileged and confidential at this point.  I'll refrain from further postings under this header.  If you chat with Bruce, tell him to paste-up photos of both Geestman and Sail into that already widely circulated photo owned and copyrighted by Bruce.  If "wanted" posters start popping up around downtown Auburn, or at the Theater, I want to make sure all accomplices are given full credit.  Adious

My advice? Keep it classy. You will far further.
Dumb advice I know but . . . cows give milk when fed and content...
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on July 30, 2014, 11:45:42 PM
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Shutter:  Appreciate your concern and very sorry for the inconvenience.  It is necessary that all communications between Geestman and I stay privileged and confidential at this point.  I'll refrain from further postings under this header.  If you chat with Bruce, tell him to paste-up photos of both Geestman and Sail into that already widely circulated photo owned and copyrighted by Bruce.  If "wanted" posters start popping up around downtown Auburn, or at the Theater, I want to make sure all accomplices are given full credit.  Adious


I would like to see proof of any of this. it's really no different than Cooper evidence. people want to see something valid. if it's all true, I'll be glad to support the issue. as it stands right now, I don't see anything that can be used against what Robert is claiming. it's the old "he said, she said" thingy. Robert is claiming it's not true, while you are claiming things to be true. it's going nowhere.

If you have something of value you can post it. please do it under another topic such as " Totally Off Topic" I would be more than happy to see something about this, but I need proof before it goes onto this site.....I'm sure I don't have to remind people I'm currently in my own battle of false accusations. it's not funny at all, and I don't like it one bit.

Thank You.

Agreement here.

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on August 10, 2014, 05:59:54 PM
What about this new guy on the block, or should I say. new kid on the block. I read on DZ were he admits limited knowledge of the case. how could this be if he researched for six years????
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: EVickiW on August 10, 2014, 06:12:33 PM
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What about this new guy on the block, or should I say. new kid on the block. I read on DZ were he admits limited knowledge of the case. how could this be if he researched for six years????

Great question for Bruce. He met with Sean Walsh. the author of "D.B. Cooper Final Suspect: Duane Dick Jarman," over a few beers, from what I understand.

I had a short dialog going on with him on his Facebook page. I checked today and the page is gone.

I asked him a few standard questions and he seemed to just skim over them with some short answers. Here is the last bit of conversation we had:


I heard from Bruce that he and I were the only contacts he received from his "Press Release" http://digitaljournal.com/pr/2102123
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on August 10, 2014, 06:47:36 PM
His page is gone? something in the kitchen isn't cooking at temperature again.

1) Facebook page disappears.
2) Not much knowledge of the case.
3) Only two people have talked to the author.
4) Vicki couldn't find anything on the suspect.
5) I'll give it a chance, but flags are a fly'n  8)




(http://www.alpinenj07620.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/webassets/PoliceLights.gif)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on August 10, 2014, 11:45:50 PM
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His page is gone? something in the kitchen isn't cooking at temperature again.

1) Facebook page disappears.
2) Not much knowledge of the case.
3) Only two people have talked to the author.
4) Vicki couldn't find anything on the suspect.
5) I'll give it a chance, but flags are a fly'n  8)




(http://www.alpinenj07620.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/webassets/PoliceLights.gif)

I like the lights.  8)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on August 10, 2014, 11:55:24 PM
I liked it too. you can find just about anything animated. it's easy to put on here.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on August 11, 2014, 06:23:47 AM
A station in Texas picked up the story on the new suspect....

http://www.kiiitv.com/story/26200271/db-cooper-mystery-hijacker-final-suspect-identity-revealed-by-seattle-based-writer

Interesting....Amazon.com and the UK version both give 404 error's where his book is suppose to be on sale?

Wordpress.com shows the author removed the story?

The You Tube video is also gone?

Did this guy realize he wasn't going to get very far with a fabricated story?


ADDED.....

I just checked again. it appears the new suspect is no longer a suspect, or a story. everything is gone.
I just called Kiii-TV they didn't even know about the story. they said it's probably a wire feed.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRy7dsRoIuM5U47R3S-OhuTuF0Jn10FtAwKb3Y6woWPFnNyKf43)



Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on August 11, 2014, 04:47:10 PM
Sigh, it appears that Sean has left us.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on August 11, 2014, 04:54:25 PM
Scam possibly? why all of the sudden did he take everything down. did you guys scare him lol

Apparently he used a service called PRWEB.

"PRWeb gets your story onto major news sites like Google News. We also distribute your news release to more than 250,000 subscribers and as many as 30,000 bloggers and journalists."

Since Vicki couldn't find anything on the suspect. I'll bet the name was made up along with the story.....

REMOVED photo
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on August 11, 2014, 05:31:52 PM
My bet is that he had no idea that there were forums like this one and DZ, in which people would look into his story with great detail.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on August 11, 2014, 05:53:44 PM
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My bet is that he had no idea that there were forums like this one and DZ, in which people would look into his story with great detail.


Agreed....
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on August 12, 2014, 06:38:37 AM
Apparently Sean Walsh has dropped the whole thing. I emailed him last nite. here is his response.

"releasing the info helped lead me to some determinations that allowed me to retrace some of my steps and rule out my suspect.

thanks, -sean"

I guess after a "six year" investigation he couldn't figure this out? I also found it strange that he didn't know anyone, or anything about these forums. I guess Washington writers have to be watched from now on! 2 out of 2.....not good.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on August 12, 2014, 05:24:32 PM
I think the bigger lesson from Sean's experience is that we don't know what we don't know. And he didn't.

He had a family story to tell, and he told it. It took him six years because he is young - his "six years" most likely started in high school. He's never done much research and he was never a journalist. Plus, he had the turmoil of a family divorce and remarriage to contend with.

So, give the kid a break. He is an earnest, thoughtful and kind-hearted guy, but clearly inexperienced. Nevertheless, he had the balls to put his story out there, and that has to count for something.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on August 12, 2014, 05:28:58 PM
I received an interesting email today from the daughter of the pilot of the United plane Robb Heady hijacked.  "Debbie" said her dad died last week, and she wrote to say that the trauma he and his crew experienced has not been fully told or appreciated.

I agree. This whole area is over-looked in the accounts of the hijackings.

I've encouraged her to tell us of her family's experience, even off the record.  I'll keep you posted.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on August 12, 2014, 05:31:36 PM
To take it a step further Bruce, he had the balls to say "I was wrong", regardless of his original intentions, whatever they may have been. I wish there were more out there in Cooperville that could do that.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on August 12, 2014, 06:25:33 PM
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To take it a step further Bruce, he had the balls to say "I was wrong", regardless of his original intentions, whatever they may have been. I wish there were more out there in Cooperville that could do that.

Well, from what I seen in the video vs what he is stating now is different. perhaps it will be a good lesson for him regardless of what I, or anyone else may think. I'm sure he is off doing something else by now. I'll give him credit for coming forward, but still have doubts.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on August 25, 2014, 03:54:04 PM
Though the case agents at the FBI have told me numerous times that Ken Christianson was not DB Cooper, and that they have ruled out KC for any further investigation or discussion, there is one more bit of info to consider in dismissing KC.  Bruce Smith forwarded to me a short article on Tina Mucklow that I had previously not see.  The article was written by a fellow in Eugene, Oregon.  In it, Tina states that she worked the flights from the West Coast to the Orient for a five-year period from about 1972 until 1977.  Northwest Airlines ran 747-100's and 747-200's from both Seattle and San Francisco to Tokyo as their primary routes back then.  The 100 and 200 models didn't much further range beyond that, short of refueling (Anchorage).  The 747-400's were the first model to extend range, but they didn't come out of production until the late 1980's.  That being said, this needs to be considered as further proof against Ken Christianson.  Blast author Robert Blevins states repeatedly that KC worked almost exclusively, the Asia routes for NWA in the 1970's.......as a purser.  That means he would have been the "boss" of all flight attendants on board.  Tina Mucklow worked the same flights as KC, as a junior stewardess.  Over a five year period, Tina would have certainly worked with KC on those flights from the West Coast to Asia.  And, she would have certainly recognized the hijacker, if he was the hijacker.   KC was not the hijacker.   Period.  Mr. Blevins can now go back to writing his other fictional works and grooming disabled kids, while Skipp Porteous keeps as far a distance from Mr. Blevins as humanly possible.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: EVickiW on August 25, 2014, 04:38:20 PM
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Though the case agents at the FBI have told me numerous times that Ken Christianson was not DB Cooper, and that they have ruled out KC for any further investigation or discussion, there is one more bit of info to consider in dismissing KC.  Bruce Smith forwarded to me a short article on Tina Mucklow that I had previously not see.  The article was written by a fellow in Eugene, Oregon.  In it, Tina states that she worked the flights from the West Coast to the Orient for a five-year period from about 1972 until 1977.  Northwest Airlines ran 747-100's and 747-200's from both Seattle and San Francisco to Tokyo as their primary routes back then.  The 100 and 200 models didn't much further range beyond that, short of refueling (Anchorage).  The 747-400's were the first model to extend range, but they didn't come out of production until the late 1980's.  That being said, this needs to be considered as further proof against Ken Christianson.  Blast author Robert Blevins states repeatedly that KC worked almost exclusively, the Asia routes for NWA in the 1970's.......as a purser.  That means he would have been the "boss" of all flight attendants on board.  Tina Mucklow worked the same flights as KC, as a junior stewardess.  Over a five year period, Tina would have certainly worked with KC on those flights from the West Coast to Asia.  And, she would have certainly recognized the hijacker, if he was the hijacker.   KC was not the hijacker.   Period.  Mr. Blevins can now go back to writing his other fictional works and grooming disabled kids, while Skipp Porteous keeps as far a distance from Mr. Blevins as humanly possible.

I, along with Smokin99, brought up this information about Tina's flight schedules at the DZ back when we first posted the article. This was approximately 5 - 6 months ago. Blevins did not respond. He usually doesn't when he doesn't have an answer. Or opinion.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on August 25, 2014, 05:45:39 PM
Guess I was behind the curve on this one.  It's just further "evidence" against KC.  But why would Blevins give a shit?  He's of the opinion if that you say or post things enough, they become true.  Pretty eff'ed up reasoning skills for an older adult who claims to be a professional editor (or house cleaner, or whatever).  Blevins and Jo use the same criteria to advance their case suspects.  But it only shows they have "NOTHING."  btw, Blevins and Jo are solely responsible for Georger making an exit from DropZone.  He's the one guy who could stand up to both of those clowns, but even Georger finally had enough. 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on August 25, 2014, 07:51:03 PM
Hey Georger, good chatting.  Agree with you on the blevins and jo snafu.  No relevancy to the case, and no facts to back up any assertions.  Complete hinderances and onstructionists to the case.  if you peered into jo's personal background (I have), and looked at blevin's record of accomplishments, one would quickly dismiss their presense, in any forum.  But I guess the DZ doesn't do background checks.  Too bad.  The slime tends to grow on the bottom of the boat, and in jo and blevin's case, the slim finally caused the boat to quit moving.  Best to ya, Georger!!!!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on August 25, 2014, 11:59:32 PM
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Though the case agents at the FBI have told me numerous times that Ken Christianson was not DB Cooper, and that they have ruled out KC for any further investigation or discussion, there is one more bit of info to consider in dismissing KC.  Bruce Smith forwarded to me a short article on Tina Mucklow that I had previously not see.  The article was written by a fellow in Eugene, Oregon.  In it, Tina states that she worked the flights from the West Coast to the Orient for a five-year period from about 1972 until 1977.  Northwest Airlines ran 747-100's and 747-200's from both Seattle and San Francisco to Tokyo as their primary routes back then.  The 100 and 200 models didn't much further range beyond that, short of refueling (Anchorage).  The 747-400's were the first model to extend range, but they didn't come out of production until the late 1980's.  That being said, this needs to be considered as further proof against Ken Christianson.  Blast author Robert Blevins states repeatedly that KC worked almost exclusively, the Asia routes for NWA in the 1970's.......as a purser.  That means he would have been the "boss" of all flight attendants on board.  Tina Mucklow worked the same flights as KC, as a junior stewardess.  Over a five year period, Tina would have certainly worked with KC on those flights from the West Coast to Asia.  And, she would have certainly recognized the hijacker, if he was the hijacker.   KC was not the hijacker.   Period.  Mr. Blevins can now go back to writing his other fictional works and grooming disabled kids, while Skipp Porteous keeps as far a distance from Mr. Blevins as humanly possible.

I, along with Smokin99, brought up this information about Tina's flight schedules at the DZ back when we first posted the article. This was approximately 5 - 6 months ago. Blevins did not respond. He usually doesn't when he doesn't have an answer. Or opinion.

The first time I saw this I kind of skimmed it then moved on ... to quickly it turns out! Very nice catch Vicki/Smokin!
very nice find!

Strange how things just keep popping up to defeat the KC candidacy. Wasn't one of RMB's primary claims that NWA employees were never interviewed and, that none of the crew were ever on flights with KC. ?   It's not KC's fault!  :)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on August 26, 2014, 12:04:24 AM
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Apparently Sean Walsh has dropped the whole thing. I emailed him last nite. here is his response.

"releasing the info helped lead me to some determinations that allowed me to retrace some of my steps and rule out my suspect.

thanks, -sean"

I guess after a "six year" investigation he couldn't figure this out? I also found it strange that he didn't know anyone, or anything about these forums. I guess Washington writers have to be watched from now on! 2 out of 2.....not good.

We need more of him!  Very nice doing -
Title: Re: Hatley intervoiew - very good!
Post by: georger on August 26, 2014, 01:04:09 AM
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I received an interesting email today from the daughter of the pilot of the United plane Robb Heady hijacked.  "Debbie" said her dad died last week, and she wrote to say that the trauma he and his crew experienced has not been fully told or appreciated.

I agree. This whole area is over-looked in the accounts of the hijackings.

I've encouraged her to tell us of her family's experience, even off the record.  I'll keep you posted.

Bruce could you post your Hatley interview here? I hope you can do more with him. Ask him about the flight path and what Cossey or anyone else told him .... ??? You're on a roll!   
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on August 26, 2014, 03:16:48 AM
Ok, enough of that. neither one can reply to your post, so this only makes it hard on me because I have to battle it out with them on the other site. Blevins has been brought up here because of what was going on with the kid posting on DZ. everytime it cools down. these type of comments only fuel the fire. I'm tossing water on it now......

(http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/dave767/referee_zps5f9de58f.gif)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on August 26, 2014, 03:33:25 AM
Regarding Tina and her recent interview in the Eugene Weekly, yes, a Big Hat Tip is due to Smokin and EVick.

Smokin99 first sprung the news about six months ago at the DZ and resisted ALL of my many advances to find out where the heck she got the news, but she remained mum.

I had given up on the piece until EVick posted the link here a couple of days ago. I contacted the interviewer Paul Neevel over the weekend and he emailed me today, saying he doesn't remember the interview much, except that Tina insisted on not talking about DB Cooper. He agreed, and said that he would look for his notes to refresh his memory before we chat.

That said, I'm not 100% sure Neevel's piece is legit. First, the pix doesn't look exactly like the Tina that I met at her front door in 2011.  Sure, she could have gained 20-30 pounds in the next year - heck, I did, so why not her.

And a smiling Tina?  Whoa, babes. I never knew the girl had it in her! (Really?)

And so chatty?  Maybe Paul is REALLY nice.

And she flew to the Orient?  While she was married to Mr. Larson?  And was working for NWO when she was a patient in the long-term care Lutheran facility in Graham? And didn't retire until she had already been in the convent for a year or so?

Hmmm, a lot of math ain't adding up here. Know what I mean....

...btw: for the record I can be nice, too.  I'll even bring flowers, chocolate, vino. I'll even shave!

Tina - whatever you want, girl.  Just call me.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on August 26, 2014, 03:46:05 AM
I talked with Ralph Hatley today.  He has an advanced perspective on Norjak, knowing Earl Cossey and Ralph Himmelsbach, and was well established in the skydiving community in 1971. Three-Seven-Seven recommended that I talk with Ralph and provided the contact information.  Ralph lives and works in Eagle Creek, Oregon, which is about 20 miles south of Gresham and about 50 miles southeast of Portland.

Ralph Hatley, interview, phone, 8. 25. 14

Ralph is a noted, long-time skydiver and owner of a DZ in Eagle Creek, Oregon. He is very familiar with the DB Cooper skyjacking and knows many of the principals in the case. Here are the highlights of the conversation.

“Yes, Earl Cossey and I were good friends,” he told me straightaway. “We made many jumps together.”

Ralph is a no-nonsense kind of guy so I got right to the point about Coss.

“What do you think about his murder?” I asked.

“I think he caught a guy burglarizing his house,” Ralph replied.

“Do you think his murder had anything to do with the DB Cooper case?”

“Absolutely not,” Ralph said, and he began a long soliloquy about Earl Cossey, who was the rigger of Cooper's chutes and a controversial technical expert for the FBI in the Norjak case.

Ralph said that he knew Cossey “quite well,” and they had many conversations about DB Cooper. Essentially, they both felt that Cooper made it to the ground successfully, so much so that he was able to truck out of the woods with all of his gear. Hatley said that he and Cooper never doubted that Cooper had made it, and he stated that all “real” skydivers felt the same.

“Cossey told me the FBI were just a bunch of idiots,” Ralph said, “But a few of them were decent, such as Ralph Himmelsbach, who is a personal friend of mine.

Ralph Hatley (RH-2) continued and said that he had told Ralph Himmelsbach (RH-1) that many of his Norjak theories were “far-fetched,” especially the notion that DB Cooper died in the jump because he was an inexperienced skydiver.

Hatley laughed loud and long when I asked him about DB Cooper, although I wasn’t sure why. Nevertheless, Hatley launched another commentary on the skyjacking, highlighted by the following:

“The night of the skyjacking I was contacted by the feds,” said Hatley. “’Ralph,’ they said, do you know a skydiver named Dan Cooper?’”

“’Sure,” I told them. He’s a guy from Moses Lake.’”

RH-2 said that the feds didn’t quite believe him and thought that Cooper died in his getaway, or was too afraid to leave his airplane.

“I was laughing my ass off when the aircraft landed in Reno, sparks flying, and they couldn’t find the skyjacker,” said Hatley.

At this point I challenged Ralph about the many statements Earl Cossey made to the media, including during several interviews with me that DB Cooper was an incompetent “no-pull” who cratered into the ground on his getaway jump.

“Bullshit!” Ralph roared. “We all knew the perpetrator made it.”

Throughout our discussion Hatley adamantly claimed that Cossey believed DB Cooper had made a successful jump.

Along those lines, Hatley said that DB Cooper “had some knowledge” regarding the chutes and skydiving. He also characterized the skyjacking as “well-planned”

“Cooper picked a parachute that was not a regular skydiving parachute. He picked an NB-8 or an NB-6, whatever, and that was smart because it had a rigging card and a rigging pin, so he knew the chute hadn’t been opened and tracking devices put inside.”

At this point, Ralph became very coy and challenged me to study the flight path and call him after I had a precise understanding of the details. After much prodding, Ralph relented and told me that he felt DB Cooper jumped over Battleground WA, and this location was very fortuitous because it contained a DZ that was owned by Ralph.

“I knew the area very well. I’d made a couple thousand jumps in that area, and I could do it under the same conditions and they’d never find me either.”

Ralph also said that he volunteered to simulate the exact jump – weather, clothing and gear, for a “substantial fee” - but the FBI declined his offer.

Ralph also said that DB Cooper was not alone.

“How do you know that, Ralph?” I asked.

“Well, that’s a long story, and I might tell you if we’re face-to-face and I feel like I’m in a good mood,” he replied, laughing. “But I told Ralph Himmelsbach. My story is impossible to verify, though.”

Ralph also said that the money found at Tina Bar in 1980 was “tossed into the Columbia at the Washougal Bridge.”

At this point I promised to meet with Ralph in the near future to continue our conversations, which seemed to be tip-toeing into delicate areas.


©  2014  Bruce A. Smith
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on August 26, 2014, 02:47:56 PM
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And more news about Blevins:   Skipp Porteous was contacted and asked if Mr. Blevins went to CA to visit this summer like he bragged to everyone that he was going to do?  Skipp Porteous reports this: "You must be kidding.  I change my address and phone number every so often to keep Blevins from contacting me.  Others have done the same thing when Jo Weber comes calling.  Those two are like psychotic peas in a pod.  They make up shit and lie through their teeth.  And one of them is into "grooming" young boys.  Hey isn't that what Ken Christianson used to do?"

Woops! Galen you have so much more-better to think about and contribute. Yes it stings, but .... RMB doesnt need any help destroying himself. LET IT GO!  I say this as a friend.  Shutter is right!  We have ALL HAD ENOUGH OF RMB! You were in this case before RMB was out of diapers! Talk about that ... hope this helps. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! It aint easy I know. Rewind the clock, kick the dog, spit at the cat, .... LET IT GO@!

THANKS!
G.

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on August 26, 2014, 04:47:39 PM
OK, sorry guys.  We can get back on track now.  There actually is some new stuff on DB Cooper, but I'm just not willing to share with the guy who was not yet out of diapers when I began my investigation.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on August 26, 2014, 04:54:03 PM
It appears nobody wants to hear this nonsense about Robert & Jo. I've received an email from Jo. she is pretty upset at the allegations mentioned here. I'm removing the last to comments made by Coopsnoop out of fairness to all. I just got done explaining this crap on DZ. this constantly puts me in the position to respond. I'm tired of playing this game. enough of this Has gone on long enough. these are things I'm trying to avoid in building this forum.

I personally don't have anything against Jo. she can't respond to the comments made here against her. Blevins, I could give two craps about, but since his name is in those comments they will go as well. I realize a lot of people don't like Jo, but I can't as a moderator allow this to continue. I have mentioned in the past for any proof of these allegations to be presented on this forum before any further comments were to be made. some have decided that they are above my permissions. that doesn't fly at all well with me, nor does it make you respectable in my book.

The bottom line here is as follows........

KNOCK IT OFF!!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on August 27, 2014, 11:11:26 PM
re: Kenny Christiansen

I'm sure I've read KC continued to work part time for Northwest Orient for many years after the DBC hijacking. Assuming just for a minute KC was DBC - and I know that will be a stretch for most of you here - how much sense would it make to return to the airline and exposure yourself to so much likely-hood of being identified?

(there is much I wasn't around for here in the way of posts so apologies in advance if this was covered last week, last month etc)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on August 27, 2014, 11:18:44 PM
That is just one of the many reasons to believe that KC was not Cooper. Actually, I know of no reasons to think that he was Cooper. None.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on August 27, 2014, 11:28:46 PM
Kenny flew with NWO for 20 years after the Cooper skyjacking, trekking mostly to Japan and Hong Kong.  Now, we have Tina saying that she flew routes to the Orient after the skyjacking.

Go figure. 

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a veiled attempt by Tina to tell us that Kenny is not the guy.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on August 27, 2014, 11:49:26 PM
Kenny is coming up on a decade of trying to be a suspect. to many people in the background not coming forward on one of the greatest unsolved mysteries. nobody can validate anything. one person speaking for many. red flags all over the place. Lyle doesn't put any of this together until after his brother dies? they seem to have been close, so one would think the subject came up many times. It's for sale, but I'm not buying it.  8) it's more like building a business than anything else. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on August 28, 2014, 12:08:20 AM
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Kenny is coming up on a decade of trying to be a suspect. to many people in the background not coming forward on one of the greatest unsolved mysteries. nobody can validate anything. one person speaking for many. red flags all over the place. Lyle doesn't put any of this together until after his brother dies? they seem to have been close, so one would think the subject came up many times. It's for sale, but I'm not buying it.  8) it's more like building a business than anything else. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Kenny as DB Cooper!?  :) :) :)  I would rather explore why putters 'put'!     ;) ;)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on August 28, 2014, 12:17:32 AM
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Kenny is coming up on a decade of trying to be a suspect. to many people in the background not coming forward on one of the greatest unsolved mysteries. nobody can validate anything. one person speaking for many. red flags all over the place. Lyle doesn't put any of this together until after his brother dies? they seem to have been close, so one would think the subject came up many times. It's for sale, but I'm not buying it.  8) it's more like building a business than anything else. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Kenny as DB Cooper!?  :) :) :)  I would rather explore why putters 'put'!     ;) ;)


I think Paul's side kick registered on DZ. a new member posted comments leading to Kenny using his address, and how many feet it was to his post office box, or something like that to explain why he sat in row 18. it could only be someone from his side  :D ;D
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on August 28, 2014, 12:31:01 AM
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Kenny is coming up on a decade of trying to be a suspect. to many people in the background not coming forward on one of the greatest unsolved mysteries. nobody can validate anything. one person speaking for many. red flags all over the place. Lyle doesn't put any of this together until after his brother dies? they seem to have been close, so one would think the subject came up many times. It's for sale, but I'm not buying it.  8) it's more like building a business than anything else. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Kenny as DB Cooper!?  :) :) :)  I would rather explore why putters 'put'!     ;) ;)


I think Paul's side kick registered on DZ. a new member posted comments leading to Kenny using his address, and how many feet it was to his post office box, or something like that to explain why he sat in row 18. it could only be someone from his side  :D ;D

I saw that and chuckled. So let me ask, in the same vein ...

Did Kenny paint his finger and toe nails?  What color his underwear?  Im sure it has to be relevant ... to the screenplay.

 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on August 28, 2014, 05:27:23 AM
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Kenny flew with NWO for 20 years after the Cooper skyjacking, trekking mostly to Japan and Hong Kong.  Now, we have Tina saying that she flew routes to the Orient after the skyjacking.

Go figure. 

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a veiled attempt by Tina to tell us that Kenny is not the guy.

It makes no sense whatsoever if KC had been DBC that he'd take such a risk being identified, and for 20 YEARS!

If Tina had encountered him, and he was DBC, how long would it have taken her to identify him? 30 seconds? A minute?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on August 28, 2014, 06:15:23 AM
Wasn't sure which thread to post this one under but settled for here.

Recently read the suggestion that Richard McCoy was perhaps the on-the-ground accomplice of D.B. Cooper, and it's probably an idea that shouldn't be completely discounted. Particularly when you factor in McCoy's credit card was used in Las Vegas on November 24th 1971, and the collect call that was made to his home from a pay phone from near McCarran Airport later that same day.

Perhaps after having worked with Cooper 5 months earlier, McCoy thought he'd give it a go himself, and as we've seen he used almost the exact same modus operandi. In fact, probably a more refined version, because he ensured he had far more appropriate gear for the jump.

Do we know how much McCoy could have possibly known of the specifics of DBC's hijack in the 5 short months before his own?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on August 28, 2014, 06:16:48 AM
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Kenny flew with NWO for 20 years after the Cooper skyjacking, trekking mostly to Japan and Hong Kong.  Now, we have Tina saying that she flew routes to the Orient after the skyjacking.

Go figure. 

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a veiled attempt by Tina to tell us that Kenny is not the guy.

It makes no sense whatsoever if KC had been DBC that he'd take such a risk being identified, and for 20 YEARS!

If Tina had encountered him, and he was DBC, how long would it have taken her to identify him? 30 seconds? A minute?

I don't think Kenny was anything other the average working guy. he did what many people do about there jobs, and that was to complain. it gets shifted around as a motive. Cooper said he didn't have a grudge against the airline, but that doesn't stop him. Tina also said she had to look up at Cooper. Tina is the same height as KC. Robert works real hard trying to link Bernie Geestman with Kenny. If you watched Decoded they say at the end that Bernie was NOT the accomplice putting a huge hole in the whole thing. Bernie and his ex wife obviously don't get along, so making things up about each other can not be over looked. all the negatives can go on, and on with KC as a suspect.  8)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on August 28, 2014, 06:25:25 AM
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Wasn't sure which thread to post this one under but settled for here.

Recently read the suggestion that Richard McCoy was perhaps the on-the-ground accomplice of D.B. Cooper, and it's probably an idea that shouldn't be completely discounted. Particularly when you factor in McCoy's credit card was used in Las Vegas on November 24th 1971, and the collect call that was made to his home from a pay phone from near McCarran Airport later that same day.

Perhaps after having worked with Cooper 5 months earlier, McCoy thought he'd give it a go himself, and as we've seen he used almost the exact same modus operandi. In fact, probably a more refined version, because he ensured he had far more appropriate gear for the jump.

Do we know how much McCoy could have possibly known of the specifics of DBC's hijack in the 5 short months before his own?


If McCoy was the ground man I can assure you it would have been different in many ways. Cooper never gave any specific directions other than Mexico. If Cooper did plan on jumping early everyone is waiting in the wrong spot miles away south. I think it's possible it was the opposite, and McCoy said let me show them the right way to do this.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on August 28, 2014, 06:38:44 AM
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Kenny flew with NWO for 20 years after the Cooper skyjacking, trekking mostly to Japan and Hong Kong.  Now, we have Tina saying that she flew routes to the Orient after the skyjacking.

Go figure. 

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a veiled attempt by Tina to tell us that Kenny is not the guy.

It makes no sense whatsoever if KC had been DBC that he'd take such a risk being identified, and for 20 YEARS!

If Tina had encountered him, and he was DBC, how long would it have taken her to identify him? 30 seconds? A minute?

I don't think Kenny was anything other the average working guy. he did what many people do about there jobs, and that was to complain. it gets shifted around as a motive. Cooper said he didn't have a grudge against the airline, but that doesn't stop him. Tina also said she had to look up at Cooper. Tina is the same height as KC. Robert works real hard trying to link Bernie Geestman with Kenny. If you watched Decoded they say at the end that Bernie was NOT the accomplice putting a huge hole in the whole thing. Bernie and his ex wife obviously don't get along, so making things up about each other can not be over looked. all the negatives can go on, and on with KC as a suspect.  8)

I've heard a lot about the Decoded show on KC. But I've never seen it. Reason being, even thought it's on Youtube, it can't be accessed in my region (Australia). When you click on any shortcut to it, and there are plenty, it just comes up with a message and doesn't play. The best I've been able to find is a copy in French that does play but I can't understand a bloody word  >:(

How did they discount Geestman as having been the accomplice and still maintain KC was DBC?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on August 28, 2014, 06:41:42 AM
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Wasn't sure which thread to post this one under but settled for here.

Recently read the suggestion that Richard McCoy was perhaps the on-the-ground accomplice of D.B. Cooper, and it's probably an idea that shouldn't be completely discounted. Particularly when you factor in McCoy's credit card was used in Las Vegas on November 24th 1971, and the collect call that was made to his home from a pay phone from near McCarran Airport later that same day.

Perhaps after having worked with Cooper 5 months earlier, McCoy thought he'd give it a go himself, and as we've seen he used almost the exact same modus operandi. In fact, probably a more refined version, because he ensured he had far more appropriate gear for the jump.

Do we know how much McCoy could have possibly known of the specifics of DBC's hijack in the 5 short months before his own?


If McCoy was the ground man I can assure you it would have been different in many ways. Cooper never gave any specific directions other than Mexico. If Cooper did plan on jumping early everyone is waiting in the wrong spot miles away south. I think it's possible it was the opposite, and McCoy said let me show them the right way to do this.

You may well be right. But McCoy having played a part in Flight 305 is a tantalizing thought. Anyone else give the idea any credence?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on August 28, 2014, 06:42:55 AM
See if this link works for you....

http://www.history.com/shows/brad-meltzers-decoded/videos/brad-meltzers-decoded-db-cooper
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on August 28, 2014, 06:56:44 AM
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See if this link works for you....

http://www.history.com/shows/brad-meltzers-decoded/videos/brad-meltzers-decoded-db-cooper

When I click on the go button the screen remains black and a very annoying female voice repeats "This content is currently unavailable" as many times as you care to listen.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on August 28, 2014, 07:12:03 AM
try this one I guess they are blocking your Country....

http://www.hulu.com/watch/521638



Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on August 28, 2014, 07:19:37 AM
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try this one I guess they are blocking your Country....

http://www.hulu.com/watch/521638

Yeah, equally disappointing result. With that shortcut I instead get the written message "Sorry, currently our video library can only be watched from within the United States."
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on August 28, 2014, 09:53:33 AM
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Kenny flew with NWO for 20 years after the Cooper skyjacking, trekking mostly to Japan and Hong Kong.  Now, we have Tina saying that she flew routes to the Orient after the skyjacking.

Go figure. 

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a veiled attempt by Tina to tell us that Kenny is not the guy.

It makes no sense whatsoever if KC had been DBC that he'd take such a risk being identified, and for 20 YEARS!

If Tina had encountered him, and he was DBC, how long would it have taken her to identify him? 30 seconds? A minute?

I don't think Kenny was anything other the average working guy. he did what many people do about there jobs, and that was to complain. it gets shifted around as a motive. Cooper said he didn't have a grudge against the airline, but that doesn't stop him. Tina also said she had to look up at Cooper. Tina is the same height as KC. Robert works real hard trying to link Bernie Geestman with Kenny. If you watched Decoded they say at the end that Bernie was NOT the accomplice putting a huge hole in the whole thing. Bernie and his ex wife obviously don't get along, so making things up about each other can not be over looked. all the negatives can go on, and on with KC as a suspect.  8)

I've heard a lot about the Decoded show on KC. But I've never seen it. Reason being, even thought it's on Youtube, it can't be accessed in my region (Australia). When you click on any shortcut to it, and there are plenty, it just comes up with a message and doesn't play. The best I've been able to find is a copy in French that does play but I can't understand a bloody word  >:(

How did they discount Geestman as having been the accomplice and still maintain KC was DBC?

That's interesting...I don't know if you have satellite or cable in Australia or a DVR, but I set my DVR to record anything DB Cooper and it got it eventually.  There is a book called "Decoded" where they cover all of the episodes.  In the book and on the show, the crew is adamant that they believed Geestman.   His body language and is willingness to appear were probably factors.

The only thing that seems to tie Geestman to the hijacking (according to Robert Blevins) is that he was kind of a shady guy, Kenny's whereabouts is unaccounted for that weekend and Bernie was apparently with him.  That's about all of it.    If the Lindbergh kidnapping were that weekend, Kenny would have been a suspect in that, too.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: EVickiW on August 28, 2014, 10:00:01 AM
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try this one I guess they are blocking your Country....

http://www.hulu.com/watch/521638

Yeah, equally disappointing result. With that shortcut I instead get the written message "Sorry, currently our video library can only be watched from within the United States."

Try this one...   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02WxlT8q8HA

The channel it is posted on, dbcooperxfiles, also has other Cooper videos. I have NO IDEA who owns this channel and, if I did, I can't tell you.   ;D
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on August 28, 2014, 12:52:23 PM
I don't know how I missed that one.

I don't think they realized they blew Roberts story right out of the water. you have Bernie calling Robert his favorite word (liar) then you have them agree he wasn't the accomplice. as Mark says. Kenny could be accused of any crime that happened around the week of November 24, 1971.

Working 20 years for NW after the crime....not good
Kenny is too short. Tina said she had to look up at Cooper. KC & Tina are the same height.
The amount of cash in his accounts can be verified through the sale of several lots at $17,000 an acre. he had over a dozen acres, and the purchase goes back way before 1971. the cons go on, and on.

ADDED: I can almost guarantee Robert would rip this story to shreds if it had nothing to do with him. lots of "liars" would be included in his responses. along with the old "reality hotel" thingy....

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on August 28, 2014, 01:54:08 PM
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ADDED: I can almost guarantee Robert would rip this story to shreds if it had nothing to do with him. lots of "liars" would be included in his responses. along with the old "reality hotel" thingy....

It really shows the value of a suspect having a sponsor that keeps the discussion going.

As we've said WE continue to talk about Duane and Kenny, even though if we were working on the case, we'd have dismissed them long ago for lack of evidence.  And, in both cases having a sponsor was able to get the FBI to take a closer look at each suspect (In Kenny's case, it was Gray who talked to Carr) than they probably deserved.

For me, I would have thought "Hey, I got my shot at making my case to the FBI".  But, when someone is a true believer in their suspect, the absence of any evidence is not going to dissuade them.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on August 28, 2014, 02:02:13 PM
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ADDED: I can almost guarantee Robert would rip this story to shreds if it had nothing to do with him. lots of "liars" would be included in his responses. along with the old "reality hotel" thingy....

It really shows the value of a suspect having a sponsor that keeps the discussion going.

As we've said WE continue to talk about Duane and Kenny, even though if we were working on the case, we'd have dismissed them long ago for lack of evidence.  And, in both cases having a sponsor was able to get the FBI to take a closer look at each suspect (In Kenny's case, it was Gray who talked to Carr) than they probably deserved.

For me, I would have thought "Hey, I got my shot at making my case to the FBI".  But, when someone is a true believer in their suspect, the absence of any evidence is not going to dissuade them.


Agreed. I can only guess and say Robert is that blind to the truth, or he knows Kenny is not really Cooper, and just keeps the flames burning since he has so much time & money into it. he seems to be putting far to many things on the cart way ahead of the horse IMO.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on August 28, 2014, 04:29:49 PM
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try this one I guess they are blocking your Country....

http://www.hulu.com/watch/521638

Yeah, equally disappointing result. With that shortcut I instead get the written message "Sorry, currently our video library can only be watched from within the United States."

Try this one...   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02WxlT8q8HA

The channel it is posted on, dbcooperxfiles, also has other Cooper videos. I have NO IDEA who owns this channel and, if I did, I can't tell you.   ;D

Pay dirt! Thanks so much for that.

I'm off to work in about 10 minutes but I''ll be sure and watch it tonight.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on August 28, 2014, 04:52:34 PM
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ADDED: I can almost guarantee Robert would rip this story to shreds if it had nothing to do with him. lots of "liars" would be included in his responses. along with the old "reality hotel" thingy....

It really shows the value of a suspect having a sponsor that keeps the discussion going.

As we've said WE continue to talk about Duane and Kenny, even though if we were working on the case, we'd have dismissed them long ago for lack of evidence.  And, in both cases having a sponsor was able to get the FBI to take a closer look at each suspect (In Kenny's case, it was Gray who talked to Carr) than they probably deserved.

For me, I would have thought "Hey, I got my shot at making my case to the FBI".  But, when someone is a true believer in their suspect, the absence of any evidence is not going to dissuade them.

Or, it is simply all personal promotion; never any relationship to the real DB Cooper case. Frauds are not new to this case! People have been prosecuted for their frauds in this case - others have been threatened with prosecution. It's nothing new in the 'famous' DB Cooper case.

A number of people swear Jo's original claim was that she and Duane had an idea who Cooper might have been - not that Duane was Cooper. One party claims to have telephone conversations which proves this.

RMB keeps saying he has no financial interest in this - only wants the truth - except he has taken steps all along the way to 'OWN" property & rights! He has threatened to sue interlopers and critics like Bruce. And he has waged a ceaseless war  against the personal 'integrity and credibility' of all competitors; Weber has done the same thing.

If it quacks and flies like a duck maybe it is a duck?

 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on August 29, 2014, 06:31:53 AM
RH claims DBC was in 18C in the Decoded video.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on August 29, 2014, 04:18:30 PM
Himms is apparently misinformed. Ralph has a lot of details wrong, and I have a whole list in my notes.  Remember, too, that Ralph was not the principal investigator in Norjak early on. He only gained prominence in Norjak in 1975 for the John Doe file at the Federal Grand Jury in Portland.  SAC Julie Mattson clearly ran the Cooper show in Portland in the early days.

As for seating arrangements, according to Bill Mitchell in multiple interviews with different sources, WHSM, Galen, etc, he was sitting in 18-B and Cooper was in 18-E, although the skyjacker might have initially been in the aisle seat, 18-D, when he gave Flo the note upon take-off.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on August 29, 2014, 04:20:43 PM
Where is  SAC Julie Mattson now?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Robert99 on August 29, 2014, 05:07:47 PM
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Where is  SAC Julie Mattson now?
I think that should be Jules Mattson.  He was the head of the Portland office on the day of the hijacking and is probably a bit older than Himmelsbach.  So I presume Mattson retired before the money was found at Tina Bar.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on August 29, 2014, 05:43:52 PM
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Himms is apparently misinformed. Ralph has a lot of details wrong, and I have a whole list in my notes.  Remember, too, that Ralph was not the principal investigator in Norjak early on. He only gained prominence in Norjak in 1975 for the John Doe file at the Federal Grand Jury in Portland.  SAC Julie Mattson clearly ran the Cooper show in Portland in the early days.

As for seating arrangements, according to Bill Mitchell in multiple interviews with different sources, WHSM, Galen, etc, he was sitting in 18-B and Cooper was in 18-E, although the skyjacker might have initially been in the aisle seat, 18-D, when he gave Flo the note upon take-off.

Where does Charlie Farrell fit in then? I know he was in Seattle. But I thought he initially headed the FBI's investigation?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on August 29, 2014, 09:58:58 PM
Yeah, Bruce.  Mitchell in 18B with a perfect profile shot of DBC in 18E.  Flo sat in 18D, initially, but later...............Tina sat in 18D.  Tina moved up to the cockpit and Alice stayed in FC.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on August 30, 2014, 03:12:01 AM
Julie Mattson as in Julius Mattson.  If my memory is correct, I believe he was SAC in Portland through the 70s and was SAC during the money find period. He ran the DB Cooper operations relative to Portland, but Charlie Farrell had overall command of Norjak, as far as that goes. I don't fully know or understand the nuances of the FBI culture, but it seems like every SAC ran their office like a little fiefdom. Hence, Julie had sway in Portland, perhaps trumping Farrell on Norjak stuff as far as activities in the Portland jurisdiction.

Charlie Farrell was based in Seattle and was the Norjak case agent. As such he had the overall control of the DB Cooper investigation, but there were limits on the reach of his authority. For instance, not all the physical evidence reached Seattle from Reno. Plus, nobody from Seattle was at Reno, as far as I know.

Field command was also mixed. Farrell was not present in Ariel for the ground search over the T-Day holiday weekend, again as far as I know. Rather, local control was granted to the Vancouver Satellite office in the person of Tom Manning.  Essentially, Manning was the boss of the search for Cooper in the first few days.  Why the ground search was so modest is up for total speculation.

However, when the FBI mounted its Big Hunt for DB Cooper five months later in April, Farrell was on site and camped out in the federal bivouac, as shown by many pix from GG in Portland at the 2011 symposium.

As I understand Himmelsbach's role in Norjak, he was a Portland grunt who did the paperwork on DB Cooper. His authority was very limited, and he initiated little actual investigation, although he followed-up on leads as they came in.

He grew to prominence in Norjak in 1975 at the Grand Jury. Portland had the only sitting federal grand jury on the day that the Statute of Limitations was ready to run out on DB Cooper, and since Himms had all the documentary evidence, he was tasked with presenting the FBI case. That put him in an advanced professional position. Russ Calame told me that he had never heard of Himmelsbach until the grand jury hearing.

Then the money was found in 1980, two weeks before Himms was to retire, and that made him King of Cooper Hill, or Green Mountain as Jo prefers.  After that there was no stopping RH. He wrote his book in the 1980s, hit Hollywood, and never looked back.

Charlie Farrell in the meantime was quiet and in the shadows up in Seattle. He may have preferred being there, or others desired for him to stay in the dark and let RH become the Poster Boy of the DB Cooper Investigation. Since the 1980s, the public face of the DB Cooper story has been Ralph Himmelsbach and Earl Cossey, but the real power players, such as Farrell and his successor Ron Nichols, never surfaced in print or on screen until recently thanks to this forum, the DZ, and all the guys who dig, stir the pot, post and otherwise inform the world as to what is happening in Norjak.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on September 01, 2014, 05:06:13 PM
Was really pleased to finally be able to watch the Decoded episode devoted to DCD. Or perhaps more specifically KC. Thanks again to EVickiW for finding a shortcut that actually allowed me to play it here in Australia.

You sure wouldn't accuse the Decoded team of thorough investigative work. It resembled more something along the lines of speed dating.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 01, 2014, 05:13:56 PM
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Was really pleased to finally be able to watch the Decoded episode devoted to DCD. Or perhaps more specifically KC. Thanks again to EVickiW for finding a shortcut that actually allowed me to play it here in Australia.

You sure wouldn't accuse the Decoded team of thorough investigative work. It resembled more something along the lines of speed dating.


I don't think they checked anything. same goes for Skipp. way to many things have been overlooked with the whole story.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on September 01, 2014, 05:27:19 PM
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Was really pleased to finally be able to watch the Decoded episode devoted to DCD. Or perhaps more specifically KC. Thanks again to EVickiW for finding a shortcut that actually allowed me to play it here in Australia.

You sure wouldn't accuse the Decoded team of thorough investigative work. It resembled more something along the lines of speed dating.

And they take no responsibility for it - wont even comment! If they reply at all!

Then it turns out the producer Kaggin quashed vital testimony by principles they had interviewed! Blevins ignored that then attacks saying "YOURE A LIAR YOU HAD NO RIGHT TO CONTACT so and so ................ BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH."

All in all, a bunch-o-crappola.

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 01, 2014, 06:42:20 PM
Here is a photo of the receipt for the $200,000 signed by George Harrison.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 01, 2014, 07:06:29 PM
I'm reading the comments from Larry Carr on DZ. the PDF version Mark Bennett sent me that I forgot all about. thanks again Mark. I never noticed once again Kenny is dismissed.

Christiansen was dismissed because the only part of his physical description that matches Coopers is that he is male. There were other items as well, one of them was that he was a Northwest flight attendant. It does not fit (for me) that a NW stew would hijack a flight associated in his area of operation. The chance someone would recognize him immediately would be too great. On top of that the chance someone that works for Northwest would have said, "Cooper looks like that guy I work with, you know Kenny?" Which never happened. Getting DNA tested is not a matter of me sending a request and Quantico jumping on it. They have much more important matters at hand and Cooper requests are at the end of the line. For me to make a request it would have to be someone who first and foremost matches the description of Cooper and has the background of who we think Cooper might be.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: KidCooper on September 01, 2014, 09:14:00 PM
Hi, I'm Sean, the 'Kid' who presented Duane Dick Jarman as a Cooper potential a few weeks ago. (I am 28 but since I was born 14 years after the hijacking I suppose 'Kid' is appropriate. I have a handle on DZ as Duane2 - in reference to a post Bruce had made on there but I don't intend to further post on DZ. I take this all very seriously and my intentions are to provide and gather information to and from the public regarding D.B. Cooper, particularly in regards to Duane Dick Jarman as the potential identity of the hijacker.

My intentions here are to present what info I have, and to ask for help in finding more information. This is an initial post so I will try to provide a concise, but full description of where I'm at in regards to all this, and all the info I have on Jarman. I am happy to answer questions and do my best to provide information regarding what I may have to offer in a way that promotes a positive approach.

There seems to be some questions regarding my approach and where I'm at now so I'll do my best to explain. In 2008 I learned of D.B. Cooper from my mother; I did not know about the hijacking prior to then. She told me that there was a man her family knew named Duane Jarman who they felt may have been D.B. Cooper. I began looking into the case to see if I felt there was any reason to agree. Initially, I read most of the available info on the web and cross-checked it with what she knew about Jarman. I felt there were enough similarities between what was attributed to Cooper that matched what my mother told me about Jarman that went beyond coincidence. While I continued researching Cooper since 2008 and came to find new information as it made its way onto the web my efforts over the last six years have been less about finding out more about Cooper and more about finding more out about Jarman. I did come to realize over the years just how much conjecture and misinformation was out there regarding the case but as far as what's available on the web the fundamental things I felt made sense to compare Jarman with haven't changed much since I initially looked into it.

Finding information on Jarman proved very difficult. Only in the last year did I find most of the information on him that I now have. I reached a point in researching him that I felt I was at the limit of what I could do aside from getting in my car and driving around the country knocking on doors of offices and homes. I felt I needed to put it all out there to the public and see what came of it. I could have gotten on the forums, including DZ years ago, but the negativity and conjecture I saw there was a major turn-off to joining. I trust many can relate.

In my efforts I've come to believe that proving that anyone is Cooper is perhaps beyond rational means and my intention is not to prove that Jarman is Cooper. That being said, I do believe it may be possible for the public to one day come to some kind of conclusion on the identity of Cooper and if Jarman were to turn out to be the person who the public concluded he was, I feel a need to tell his story as best I can.

I am not currently hoping to be putting forth Jarman as a suspect for D.B. Cooper. Once I presented what I was putting forth I was contacted by Bruce Smith who shared his in-progress book about the case with me. While I had read versions of most of the information presented in Bruce's book, he had presented it all in a much more concise, effective manner than is available by scouring the plethora of sources on the web. I was able to wrap my head around the case much more by reading Bruce's book. It helped me assign value to certain aspects of the case that I had never been able to before and as a result I made some determinations that allowed me to see I needed to take a step back, thus I diminished my web presence. I've had a few weeks to digest the info from Bruce's book that has helped me to approach the other available sources of info in a new light and while I don't feel the word "suspect" best describes Jarman at this point, I've realized that ultimately I can't rule out his potential as the hijacker.

I need help to move forward. I fumbled about for years trying to find info on Jarman and still have very little. Here, I'll present what I have and if anyone feels they have ideas on how I might proceed in researching Jarman I would greatly value what they have to say.

My mother's father - my grandfather - met Jarman in 1967 while Jarman was incarcerated at Cowlitz County jail in southern Washington state. My grandfather was not in jail but met Jarman through a program that the jail had in which inmates could attend 12 step recovery program meetings. Upon his release, Jarman became close family friends with my mother's family and spent much time with them between 1967 and 1969. My mother would just as soon find out that Jarman was not Cooper. She is uninterested in anything more than finding out what happened to Jarman as she nor her family heard from him after 1969. She use to have a picture of Jarman but it was lost at one point when she moved. I have no picture of Jarman :(

Here's what I've got on Jarman:

-Born: October 31, 1936 Hot Springs Montana to Charles and Mildred Jarman.
- 5' 10" Hair: Brown Eyes: Brown
-Grew up in the Hoquiam/Aberdeen, WA area
-Arrested in Reno, Nevada in 1962 on a Grand Larceny charge of transporting a stolen car across state lines, which he likely spent time in prison for. I don't know how to research prison records and have no idea what prison he may have been sent to.
-Arrested in Cowlitz County in 1967, perhaps on violating parole from prison release.
-Have found no evidence of Jarman's existence after 1969.
-Potentially estranged from most of his family many years prior to 1967.
-FBI sketch of D.B. Cooper: My grandmother told me there was no doubt in her mind that Jarman was the man in the sketch. My mother says initial sketch with sunglasses most closely matched Jarman, but that the eyes of the 1972 sketch more closely matched Jarman than the eyes of the initial sketch. She says she feels Jarman more closely matches the sketches than any available pictures of the current suspects.
-Internet available physical descriptions attributed to flight attendants Florence Shaffner and Tina Mucklow match my mother's physical descriptions of Jarman.
-Attire attributed to Cooper matches what my mother feels he would have worn had he been committing the hijacking.
-Demeanor attributed to Cooper matches my mother's descriptions of Jarman's.
-Jarman was a smoker. No recollection by mother or her brother of brand he smoked. (My grandparents brand was Raleigh). Grandparents passed away before I had thought to ask if they remembered Jarman's preferred brand.
-Jarman sent a letter to my mother in 1968 in which the handwriting on the addressing to her on the envelope's front matches the available descriptions given by Florence Shaffner of the bomb threat note the hijacker showed her. The handwriting on the front of the envelope addressed to my mother is in all caps, black, felt tip, extremely neat handwriting.
-A forensic handwriting expert determined with an 80% probability of a match between the letter sent by Jarman to my mother to 'The Provence' letter - a letter sent to a Vancouver, BC newspaper of someone claiming to be Cooper. (The forensic expert said that with more samples of each set of handwriting it could be possible to determine a higher percentage of a match.)
-Have so far nothing to support that Jarman may have had military background. I don't know how to research whether or not he may have.
-In 1968 Jarman worked for a brief period for Chicago Pneumatic Tool Company, who had a facility in Everett, WA that built tools provided to Boeing for work on airplanes.
-Jarman had been operating as a con-man since at least 1958. Mostly, he conned people out of small amounts of money, a few hundred dollars usually, then would skip town. He did this all over the country between 1958 and 1962 until he was arrested in 1962 in Reno on transporting a stolen car across state lines.
-An FBI ID# for Jarman exists: 988 756 B
-The last time my mother and her family saw Jarman was in in mid 1969. After this they, nor anyone they knew ever saw or heard from him or anything of him.
-Jarman was on the run from the law the last time he saw my mother's family. He was using the alias Gordon Chapelle.
-Jarman told my grandmother it made no difference to him whether he was alive or dead, and that he would never go back to prison.
-On November 24, 1971 Jarman would almost certainly have either been on the run from the law or incarcerated.


That's the basics; there is minutia of course, but hoping to keep this initially concise. I will relate more in future posts. But here is some more info regarding things I've found from researching that would likely come up in people's questions.

-Jarman does not appear in high school yearbooks from the highschools surrounding the area.
-Had 7 siblings (also have not been able to find in yearbooks). A 2010 obituary of one of Jarman's siblings listed all the other siblings except for Jarman.
-Have tried to locate surviving siblings and contacted one who appeared to be Jarman's brother but have not gotten a response.
-Attempted to find other surviving family members but has proven ineffective.
-Have used reputable people-search and criminal-backround search services to attempt to find records of Jarman. None have returned results, although Ancestry.com did provide some valuable info.
-Have tried to track down arrest record for Inyo County where Jarman was arrested sometime between 1958 and 1962. They said they didn't have a record for him and that their records only go back to 1960.
-Have looked into seeing what it would take to obtain employment records at Chicago Pneumatic. But it was a dead end.
-Have sent a request for Washington state DOL info on Jarman. No response. Unlikely they would share much info.

There's more, but hopefully that gives an idea of some things I've tried. I am hoping to get some help to think outside the box and particularly to get some advice on services, pathways, people to talk to, etc. that may be able to help me find more information on Jarman. Particularly any leads in finding a mugshot of Jarman, or other arrest records, or any public records. I greatly appreciate any assistance, questions, comments or anything that anyone feels may help me in any way.

Thanks,

Sean
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 01, 2014, 09:24:24 PM
I see some problems. it appears he was on 35 in 1971. that makes him pretty young to try and pass off as mid 40's to 50. what are you trying to say about the letter Flo seen. it was never recovered for evidence., we can start there...
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: KidCooper on September 01, 2014, 10:02:56 PM
Ah yes, probably missed an opportunity to explain age better right off. Yes the age is a big issue, my mom did say before I found his dob that she always suspected due to some vain parts of his personality he was lying about his age and when she met him in 67 she figured he could have been 38. He also was a genuine alcoholic and lived on the fringe most of his life as well as having spent time in prison. Particularly in the years between which he knew my mother and 71 he would have certainly been living on the fringe and whether this all aged him more than the average person I cannot say. If I'm not mistaken there is a description by one witness that pegged Cooper at 35.

I sent copies of the handwriting samples from Jarman to my mother to Schaffner with the thought being perhaps she could positively or negatively identify it as the style she saw in the bomb threat note. No response.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 01, 2014, 10:12:13 PM
ok, understood about the note. things can certainly be found to help you out. we have plenty of people here with outstanding skills to find things. it might take a little time, but lets see if we can help you.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 01, 2014, 10:20:15 PM
The problem with the passengers description is the fact of them not knowing, or needing a reason to remember him. that's why you have different descriptions of him. I always say this. do you remember who was at the store, or gas station today? now if either one of those was held up, and you were there for an hour. I think you would have a better view of the people around you since something like that unfolded while you were there. some were able to recall Cooper, but most had different views of what he looked like. Flo, and Tina were with him, and knew exactly why he was there. they had a very good reason to remember him.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 01, 2014, 10:24:22 PM
I think Agent Larry Carr describes it a little better than I do  ;D

see photo
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on September 01, 2014, 10:50:53 PM
A mugshot of Jardine would surely be useful. Even if a likeness only succeeds in keeping him in the game.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: KidCooper on September 01, 2014, 10:57:16 PM
Mugshot would be ideal. I meant to mention that in the Reno and Cowlitz arrest records I obtained there were no mugshots. I asked if they may have them stored separately from the arrest record, but no dice.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on September 01, 2014, 11:12:03 PM
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Mugshot would be ideal. I meant to mention that in the Reno and Cowlitz arrest records I obtained there were no mugshots. I asked if they may have them stored separately from the arrest record, but no dice.

I live on the other side of the planet. But would it be considered unusual in the States for those arrest records not to contain mugshots? Not familiar with your protocols over there. Particularly for 40 odd years ago.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: KidCooper on September 01, 2014, 11:33:41 PM
It does seem a little strange, I wouldn't know what to expect o records going back that far. Reno records told me the county took over the records in the early 90s and destroyed mugshots going back that far; he seemed miffed that they had done that. Cowlitz simply said the arrest record was all they had with no explanation of why they didn't have a mugshot associated with that arrest record. It's a bummer for sure.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on September 01, 2014, 11:37:11 PM
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Mugshot would be ideal. I meant to mention that in the Reno and Cowlitz arrest records I obtained there were no mugshots. I asked if they may have them stored separately from the arrest record, but no dice.

I live on the other side of the planet. But would it be considered unusual in the States for those arrest records not to contain mugshots? Not familiar with your protocols over there. Particularly for 40 odd years ago.

Mugshots (photos) are a standard protocol here.... unless they have been destroyed along with old records.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 01, 2014, 11:37:51 PM
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It does seem a little strange, I wouldn't know what to expect o records going back that far. Reno records told me the county took over the records in the early 90s and destroyed mugshots going back that far; he seemed miffed that they had done that. Cowlitz simply said the arrest record was all they had with no explanation of why they didn't have a mugshot associated with that arrest record. It's a bummer for sure.

You still have other options. I'll try and see what I can find out in the next couple days. something has been on record...
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: KidCooper on September 02, 2014, 02:48:11 AM
thanks Shutter, much appreciated. and much appreciate this site.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 02, 2014, 04:00:09 AM
Hey, Kid, welcome back to the OK Corral.

Here are a few more angles to check out.

Smokin'99 at the DZ is an absolute pro at finding people.  She purchases the software stuff to access genealogies, etc.  PM her at the DZ, or here.  I'm not sure how to do that here - Shutter, can you help? Not only did Smok' help me find Jane and Lee Dormuth in WA, she also was able to tell me how many times they moved across country, ping-ponging from California to Philly and back a few times.

You need Snowmman, as we all do.  Pray or beseech 377 to pass your request onto the MMan of Snow.

Let's go on a road trip to Aberdeen, as magical things happen in face-to-face encounters.  I would talk to the Sheriff, ask around in bars, teachers at the HS, etc. When I say "I," I mean "You."  Me, I think I'll hang out with your Dad, who should come along with us and film the whole thing.

By the way, Kid, I think you did a good job with the "bullet-point" presentation of what you know about Duane Jarman a few posts back.

Maybe your mom could sit down with a sketch artist and give us something to show folks in Aberdeen? Or photoshop the Cooper sketches into a more accurate reflection of what she remembers about Duane-2.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: KidCooper on September 02, 2014, 04:49:52 AM
Howdy Bruce, thanks for the ongoing support. Aberdeen assignment probably will have to happen at some point. Maybe we'll confirm that Aberdeen produced D.B. Cooper along with Kurt Cobain - few'd be surprised by that tidbit I imagine. I'll talk to my Dad and check his thoughts on jumping into the fray, If he's not game (or more likely, too busy) I suppose I'll be dusting off the old handycam at some point to document worthwhile endeavors. We'll talk more about the potential to grassroots some quality media content to contend with the big boys' less than satisfying efforts; I would like to explore opening some ideas in that regard to the community here. I'll see about getting a sketch uploaded onto here from my mom on Jarman (Duane 2). In the meantime I'll test my ability to upload photos with my next post...
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: KidCooper on September 02, 2014, 05:05:13 AM
Here is an attached image that compares Jarman's handwriting to the handwriting in The Provence letter. A forensic handwriting expert determined the two sets of handwriting a match with a probability factor of 80% - He added that with more samples from each exhibited handwriting he could possibly raise the percentage of probability.

(http://s18.postimg.org/ox8b3kl7d/duane_handwriting_with_provence_letter.jpg)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 02, 2014, 07:09:33 AM
I'm wondering what has happened to smokin99? I know she comes and goes, but it's been a while. I'll send up my usual signal in hopes that she will see the smoke  ;D :D

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mq0N0J1jUrs/UrBitzklRFI/AAAAAAAAAGs/n94vTQmkTZ0/s1600/smokesigs.gif)

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 02, 2014, 08:27:23 AM
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Here is an attached image that compares Jarman's handwriting to the handwriting in The Provence letter. A forensic handwriting expert determined the two sets of handwriting a match with a probability factor of 80% - He added that with more samples from each exhibited handwriting he could possibly raise the percentage of probability.

(http://s18.postimg.org/ox8b3kl7d/duane_handwriting_with_provence_letter.jpg)


I'm not a hand writing expert, but I see some similarities, but I also see a difference. the writer of the Cooper letter fails to connect letters, and numbers at the top (T,5,E) while Jarman is neat connecting all his letters, and numbers. I don't see any separation in them. the O & D look similar, but I also make my D's as shown in the Province letter. keep in mind there is no proof to date these letters were ever sent by Cooper. one of the main problems I have is the signing of the letters. one would think he would sign them by Dan Cooper, and not a double alias by using DB Cooper, buts that's my opinion.....
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on September 02, 2014, 04:27:51 PM
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Here is an attached image that compares Jarman's handwriting to the handwriting in The Provence letter. A forensic handwriting expert determined the two sets of handwriting a match with a probability factor of 80% - He added that with more samples from each exhibited handwriting he could possibly raise the percentage of probability.

(http://s18.postimg.org/ox8b3kl7d/duane_handwriting_with_provence_letter.jpg)


I'm not a hand writing expert, but I see some similarities, but I also see a difference. the writer of the Cooper letter fails to connect letters, and numbers at the top (T,5,E) while Jarman is neat connecting all his letters, and numbers. I don't see any separation in them. the O & D look similar, but I also make my D's as shown in the Province letter. keep in mind there is no proof to date these letters were ever sent by Cooper. one of the main problems I have is the signing of the letters. one would think he would sign them by Dan Cooper, and not a double alias by using DB Cooper, buts that's my opinion.....

I'm no handwriting expert either. I can see the overall similarity. But....

The Jarman handwriting has all the individual letters formed in one solid piece - no separations between portions of the individual letters.

The Providence handwriting has each letter made up of separate, "floating" components.

Take a look in particular at the T and E in the Providence letter. They are made up of pieces. In the Jarman they are solid.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: KidCooper on September 04, 2014, 03:29:55 AM
Shutter, yes, completely on board that The Provence letter should not be assumed to have actually been written by the hijacker, mostly posted it to get thoughts as some may find it an interesting consideration. I mostly agree with your thoughts on some individual letters, though the E in Duane is not connected on the top line and the E in Longview not connected in the middle line. 18C, also right on; (there is the B in bend that is not fully connected). The handwriting expert felt that some of these disimilarities could point to two possibilities if the writers were the same: first, based on what he's seen with other cases that the state of mind of the writer being different during the time the writings were made could impact the handwriting; he felt that for instance someone who was sober could have differences than writing compared to while drinking (makes sense), and secondly, he pointed out that some of the E's in The Provence letter were classic indicators of someone attempting to disguise their writing. If this were to be Jarman writing The Provence letter both would seem plausible as he was certainly sober at the time of writing the letter to my mom and the handwriting expert did feel that there were indications the writer of The Provence letter may have been under the influence of alcohol while writing. I think the indications are clear for whoever wrote The Provence letter to attempt to disguise their writing, whether they were really Cooper or not.

This is the way the handwriting expert explained how the 80% probability worked: if you took the handwriting samples of Jarman and 9 other people at random there would be one other person in the group that's handwriting matched The Provence letter as closely as Jarman's did and 8 whose handwriting matched less.

If it were in fact Jarman that wrote The Provence letter, I would personally find it implausible that he were not Cooper. Perhaps there are further ways to determine whether Jarman did - or did not - write The Provence letter; Any ideas on how I might explore that are certainly welcome. Not to jump too far ahead, but of course were Jarman (or for that matter, anyone) to be matched to The Provence letter as well as be identified as the hijacker it would indicate jump survival.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on September 04, 2014, 05:37:28 AM
Thanks for the further explanation. It is a bit misleading the way the handwriting expert expresses the likelihood the two pieces of writing might have been written by the same person. 80% makes it sound highly likely. When in fact it isn't anything like that clean cut when you consider the further explanation.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on September 04, 2014, 09:11:23 AM
I actually drove to Vancouver, BC a few years ago and spent half a day researching the old news records for that letter.  I knew the letter existed because the Reno Evening Gazette wrote a story about the PROVINCE and the Cooper letter.  When I found it in the archives, I also learned that the Vancouver BC Police Dept took possession of that letter and had it dusted.......but no prints.  None of the four DB Cooper letters had prints.  I had the present day VPD do a records search, but they could not find the original letter.  Presumably, it is lost through time, like the cigarette butts.  I had a copy of the Vancouver letter analyzed by some top former FBI agents, and what they told me was that the handwriting style was very deceptive.  And btw, its not the handwriting style in the letter that's important.  It's the content of the letter, and if you know what you're looking for, it will help lead you to DB Cooper.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on September 04, 2014, 11:36:39 PM
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Shutter, yes, completely on board that The Provence letter should not be assumed to have actually been written by the hijacker, mostly posted it to get thoughts as some may find it an interesting consideration. I mostly agree with your thoughts on some individual letters, though the E in Duane is not connected on the top line and the E in Longview not connected in the middle line. 18C, also right on; (there is the B in bend that is not fully connected). The handwriting expert felt that some of these disimilarities could point to two possibilities if the writers were the same: first, based on what he's seen with other cases that the state of mind of the writer being different during the time the writings were made could impact the handwriting; he felt that for instance someone who was sober could have differences than writing compared to while drinking (makes sense), and secondly, he pointed out that some of the E's in The Provence letter were classic indicators of someone attempting to disguise their writing. If this were to be Jarman writing The Provence letter both would seem plausible as he was certainly sober at the time of writing the letter to my mom and the handwriting expert did feel that there were indications the writer of The Provence letter may have been under the influence of alcohol while writing. I think the indications are clear for whoever wrote The Provence letter to attempt to disguise their writing, whether they were really Cooper or not.

This is the way the handwriting expert explained how the 80% probability worked: if you took the handwriting samples of Jarman and 9 other people at random there would be one other person in the group that's handwriting matched The Provence letter as closely as Jarman's did and 8 whose handwriting matched less.

If it were in fact Jarman that wrote The Provence letter, I would personally find it implausible that he were not Cooper. Perhaps there are further ways to determine whether Jarman did - or did not - write The Provence letter; Any ideas on how I might explore that are certainly welcome. Not to jump too far ahead, but of course were Jarman (or for that matter, anyone) to be matched to The Provence letter as well as be identified as the hijacker it would indicate jump survival.

see: http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/april/qdu_040909

and: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/forensic-science-communications/review/2009_10_review02.htm/

http://www.thetruthaboutforensicscience.com/category/forensicdiscipline/handwriting-analysis/

and Bayesean analysis of graphics in 3d space, such as:
http://www.mis.ccu.edu.tw/previous_mis/User/yfyen/pdf/Estermain.pdf

This will get you started in the profession!

Good luck!  :)
 

   
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 05, 2014, 12:20:33 AM
Interesting, I'll look over the links tomorrow. can we believe that the letter was from Cooper, and he tried to hind this fact? wouldn't it be easier typing out the letter, or use the famous cut outs in order to camouflage who the author is rather than try and change his handwriting which seems to be seen by experts no matter what you do? If Cooper did in fact write that letter and mailed it miles away from his known location, he wouldn't be worried about his handwriting? he would have to be caught first, and then linked to the letter, but it's to late by then, they know who he is? if he is taunting the FBI. I'm not convinced he would try and cover his writing. I don't think he would be worried about it IMO.

I still believe he would have signed it Dan Cooper vs DB Cooper, and supplied a $20 bill to seal the deal. I could be wrong, I don't know.....gotta hit the hay........
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on September 05, 2014, 01:50:11 AM
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Interesting, I'll look over the links tomorrow. can we believe that the letter was from Cooper, and he tried to hind this fact? wouldn't it be easier typing out the letter, or use the famous cut outs in order to camouflage who the author is rather than try and change his handwriting which seems to be seen by experts no matter what you do? If Cooper did in fact write that letter and mailed it miles away from his known location, he wouldn't be worried about his handwriting? he would have to be caught first, and then linked to the letter, but it's to late by then, they know who he is? if he is taunting the FBI. I'm not convinced he would try and cover his writing. I don't think he would be worried about it IMO.

I still believe he would have signed it Dan Cooper vs DB Cooper, and supplied a $20 bill to seal the deal. I could be wrong, I don't know.....gotta hit the hay........

Many people think as you do. Taunting the FBI? The letter was not sent to the FBI. No guarantee the letter would ever be seen by the FBI! No guarantee of a taunt. A little like this BIG PLANT of Cooper money T-Bar. Why not just put $5800 in a shoe box and send it to the FBI!? Or to some major newspaper. If you actually want it found, that is.  I am sure Kenny and Diesel Geestman stowed their Cooper twenties in a tool chest on board some tug boat? Or better yet under an outhouse back on Shemya. Surely there is some walrus Blevins could interview - aarf aarf, aarf aarf aarf? Aarf aarf. Who has a walrus dictionary handy - only RMB! 

I know if I was Cooper I would be long gone! No letters back home to the FBI or anyone else! Hell they would have to chase me clear to the Antarctic if I could get there!  :)  And they would need a Walrus Dictionary written by who else = RobertMBlevins. Aarf aarf.   ;) 
 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: KidCooper on September 05, 2014, 02:24:27 AM
Well Snoop makes a good point that there could be something in the content of the letter that linked it to DB Cooper, which is more likely than it linking to what is known purely about the hijacker. So, for instance if you knew for sure who the hijacker was you could link content in The Provence letter to previous phrases that individual used throughout their life, etc. But assuming you don't know the identity of the hijacker, linking the letter to the hijacker based purely on what is known of him through the events of the hijacking the chances of 'proving' the letter was written by the hijacker seems slim in my mind. They could have shown The Provence letter to Flo to see if it looked like the handwriting she saw in the bomb threat note he showed her to establish a link that way. Unaware of any reason to believe the FBI or anyone has tried showing her The Provence letter.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on September 05, 2014, 02:08:18 PM
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Well Snoop makes a good point that there could be something in the content of the letter that linked it to DB Cooper, which is more likely than it linking to what is known purely about the hijacker. So, for instance if you knew for sure who the hijacker was you could link content in The Provence letter to previous phrases that individual used throughout their life, etc. But assuming you don't know the identity of the hijacker, linking the letter to the hijacker based purely on what is known of him through the events of the hijacking the chances of 'proving' the letter was written by the hijacker seems slim in my mind. They could have shown The Provence letter to Flo to see if it looked like the handwriting she saw in the bomb threat note he showed her to establish a link that way. Unaware of any reason to believe the FBI or anyone has tried showing her The Provence letter.

Is Wm Shakespeare's hand writing in an old dictionary purchased on EBay? Did the dictionary belong to Shakespeare? Millions are at stake not to mention historical facts. Top flight hand writing experts, linguists, and other forensic experts are now beginning to assess the dictionary and the hand writing in an effort that could eventually rival the debate that exploded over the Dead Sea Scrolls.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2610990/Was-Shakespeares-dictionary-discovered-eBay-New-York-booksellers-claim-dictionary-Bard-used-write-works-But-experts-think-handwriting-wrong.html

Will the socalled Cooper letter ever receive similar attention? I don't think so. (Many millions of dollars are not at stake, nor the Words of the Lord either!) Will Shakespeare's dna be found in that book!? Not likely. Will Cooper's dna be found on the reverse side of the stamp on that envelope? In dunno! But 377 is competing with offers to the FBI to find out. We have a top flight panel of well funded experts on the one hand, and a subterranean cliche of back yard mechanics on the other! Who knew!    :) :) :) 

See: http://mathforum.org/cgraph/history/fly.html





   
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 05, 2014, 04:33:07 PM
I think the Letters tell us more about the Cooper Vortex than the skyjacker.

They also tell us a bit about the FBI, such as getting Letter # 4 to Missoula, Montana within 24 hours for publication in the Gazette.  That's quick.

How about the sloppy handling of the letter/envelop evidence?  Whew.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 09, 2014, 09:17:25 AM
"Will Cooper's dna be found on the reverse side of the stamp on that envelope? In dunno! But 377 is competing with offers to the FBI to find out. We have a top flight panel of well funded experts on the one hand, and a subterranean cliche of back yard mechanics on the other! Who knew!"

How do we know the FBI hasn't already done this with the letter?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on September 09, 2014, 11:18:22 PM
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"Will Cooper's dna be found on the reverse side of the stamp on that envelope? In dunno! But 377 is competing with offers to the FBI to find out. We have a top flight panel of well funded experts on the one hand, and a subterranean cliche of back yard mechanics on the other! Who knew!"

How do we know the FBI hasn't already done this with the letter?

Funny you should ask!

We don't know! At least nobody I know has reported they have tested the stamps.

 :) :) :)

 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 10, 2014, 03:53:47 AM
Me, neither.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on September 10, 2014, 02:30:31 PM
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Me, neither.

Has Jo Weber's dna ever been tested! Since she knows everything in the case, backwards, forwards, and upside down, maybe she was DB Cooper? Plus she's an expert psychologist (having been a realty specialista). As she always says: "Hide it in plain sight". Just sayin. All the other cliches apply also -
 :) :) 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 10, 2014, 04:44:36 PM
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Me, neither.

Has Jo Weber's dna ever been tested! Since she knows everything in the case, backwards, forwards, and upside down, maybe she was DB Cooper? Plus she's an expert psychologist (having been a realty specialista). As she always says: "Hide it in plain sight". Just sayin. All the other cliches apply also -
 :) :)



She could of been "the woman on the ground where Cooper came out"  ;D :D :)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 10, 2014, 05:22:16 PM
Maybe Jo is "Clara," and fell in love with DB Cooper, helping him to recover from his broken ankle....

....but he was married and they had to cover up their affair for 42 years - UNTIL NOW!
Finally, we're getting to the bottom of this...

...or maybe we're already at the bottom....

...oops, I feel Shutter's hot breath on my neck....gotta go....
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions - William Gossett
Post by: 18C on September 10, 2014, 09:01:31 PM
Apologies for the slight change of subject. But I'm becoming increasingly interested in WILLIAM GOSSETT

Gossett looks disconcertingly similar in appearance to the DBC sketches. I found it absolutely eery TBH.

Gossett also ticks the boxes the FBI seem to place a lot of stock in - his eye colour is correct and his height is near as darn it correct too.

Bruce has already mentioned other aspects of Gossett, including that he was about the right age, was a former paratrooper, was in the right place at the right time to have encountered the Dan Cooper comic, and to top it all off, confessed to the crime as well.

I'm not suggesting the above points make him DB Cooper, but he sure ticks a few boxes.

My question to the learned here is: What are the most obvious downsides to William Gossett having been Cooper???
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions - William Gossett
Post by: MarkBennett on September 10, 2014, 09:42:40 PM
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Apologies for the slight change of subject. But I'm becoming increasingly interested in WILLIAM GOSSETT

Gossett looks disconcertingly similar in appearance to the DBC sketches. I found it absolutely eery TBH.

Gossett also ticks the boxes the FBI seem to place a lot of stock in - his eye colour is correct and his height is near as darn it correct too.

Bruce has already mentioned other aspects of Gossett, including that he was about the right age, was a former paratrooper, was in the right place at the right time to have encountered the Dan Cooper comic, and to top it all off, confessed to the crime as well.

I'm not suggesting the above points make him DB Cooper, but he sure ticks a few boxes.

My question to the learned here is: What are the most obvious downsides to William Gossett having been Cooper???

You're in luck!  CoopSnoop, right here on this forum, has done lots of research on Gossett.  CoopSnoop, I know you don't want to release everything before your book comes out, but how about a synopsis of the pros and cons of Gossett?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions - William Gossett
Post by: georger on September 11, 2014, 12:00:17 AM
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Apologies for the slight change of subject. But I'm becoming increasingly interested in WILLIAM GOSSETT

Gossett looks disconcertingly similar in appearance to the DBC sketches. I found it absolutely eery TBH.

Gossett also ticks the boxes the FBI seem to place a lot of stock in - his eye colour is correct and his height is near as darn it correct too.

Bruce has already mentioned other aspects of Gossett, including that he was about the right age, was a former paratrooper, was in the right place at the right time to have encountered the Dan Cooper comic, and to top it all off, confessed to the crime as well.

I'm not suggesting the above points make him DB Cooper, but he sure ticks a few boxes.

My question to the learned here is: What are the most obvious downsides to William Gossett having been Cooper???

The BIGGEST downside by far is: (a) RobertMBlevins !

In other words: it will give RobertMBlevins yet one more opportunity to launch one more of his MEGA-WARs lasting months if not years, against somebody Blevins has already declared is his No.1 mortal arch enemy from birth! A Jihad of major proportions. JO WEBER will join in without mercy! So .. before launching this war call the Pres. of the United States, The National Security Council, the U.N., Danielle 1010, Bruce Smith, and all greys on Planet Aamazon!

That is the minimum that will happen.   ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) Gaur-ohn-teed!

 :) 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions - William Gossett
Post by: EVickiW on September 11, 2014, 12:21:53 AM
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Apologies for the slight change of subject. But I'm becoming increasingly interested in WILLIAM GOSSETT

Gossett looks disconcertingly similar in appearance to the DBC sketches. I found it absolutely eery TBH.

Gossett also ticks the boxes the FBI seem to place a lot of stock in - his eye colour is correct and his height is near as darn it correct too.

Bruce has already mentioned other aspects of Gossett, including that he was about the right age, was a former paratrooper, was in the right place at the right time to have encountered the Dan Cooper comic, and to top it all off, confessed to the crime as well.

I'm not suggesting the above points make him DB Cooper, but he sure ticks a few boxes.

My question to the learned here is: What are the most obvious downsides to William Gossett having been Cooper???

When searching the DZ forums, I used the search terms of CKRET GOSSETT and pulled up two pages of information.
Search through the results here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=ckret%20gossett&sb=score&mh=25

Aahhh...the days when information was shared and members of the forum worked together.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions - William Gossett
Post by: 18C on September 11, 2014, 12:25:20 AM
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Apologies for the slight change of subject. But I'm becoming increasingly interested in WILLIAM GOSSETT

Gossett looks disconcertingly similar in appearance to the DBC sketches. I found it absolutely eery TBH.

Gossett also ticks the boxes the FBI seem to place a lot of stock in - his eye colour is correct and his height is near as darn it correct too.

Bruce has already mentioned other aspects of Gossett, including that he was about the right age, was a former paratrooper, was in the right place at the right time to have encountered the Dan Cooper comic, and to top it all off, confessed to the crime as well.

I'm not suggesting the above points make him DB Cooper, but he sure ticks a few boxes.

My question to the learned here is: What are the most obvious downsides to William Gossett having been Cooper???

The BIGGEST downside by far is: (a) RobertMBlevins !

In other words: it will give RobertMBlevins yet one more opportunity to launch one more of his MEGA-WARs lasting months if not years, against somebody Blevins has already declared is his No.1 mortal arch enemy from birth! A Jihad of major proportions. JO WEBER will join in without mercy! So .. before launching this war call the Pres. of the United States, The National Security Council, the U.N., Danielle 1010, Bruce Smith, and all greys on Planet Aamazon!

That is the minimum that will happen.   ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) Gaur-ohn-teed!

 :)

RoJo are not posters here yet are they?

(kinda did a Hollywood thing there by joining them a bit like "Brangelina" - apologies in advance)

Are we not therefore safe to discuss William Gossett here? He seems to fit the mould reasonably well from the little I know about him.

Anyone game to discuss him  8)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions - William Gossett
Post by: 18C on September 11, 2014, 12:26:23 AM
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Apologies for the slight change of subject. But I'm becoming increasingly interested in WILLIAM GOSSETT

Gossett looks disconcertingly similar in appearance to the DBC sketches. I found it absolutely eery TBH.

Gossett also ticks the boxes the FBI seem to place a lot of stock in - his eye colour is correct and his height is near as darn it correct too.

Bruce has already mentioned other aspects of Gossett, including that he was about the right age, was a former paratrooper, was in the right place at the right time to have encountered the Dan Cooper comic, and to top it all off, confessed to the crime as well.

I'm not suggesting the above points make him DB Cooper, but he sure ticks a few boxes.

My question to the learned here is: What are the most obvious downsides to William Gossett having been Cooper???

When searching the DZ forums, I used the search terms of CKRET GOSSETT and pulled up two pages of information.
Search through the results here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=ckret%20gossett&sb=score&mh=25

Aahhh...the days when information was shared and members of the forum worked together.

Heading there now. Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions - William Gossett
Post by: georger on September 11, 2014, 12:42:03 AM
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Apologies for the slight change of subject. But I'm becoming increasingly interested in WILLIAM GOSSETT

Gossett looks disconcertingly similar in appearance to the DBC sketches. I found it absolutely eery TBH.

Gossett also ticks the boxes the FBI seem to place a lot of stock in - his eye colour is correct and his height is near as darn it correct too.

Bruce has already mentioned other aspects of Gossett, including that he was about the right age, was a former paratrooper, was in the right place at the right time to have encountered the Dan Cooper comic, and to top it all off, confessed to the crime as well.

I'm not suggesting the above points make him DB Cooper, but he sure ticks a few boxes.

My question to the learned here is: What are the most obvious downsides to William Gossett having been Cooper???

The BIGGEST downside by far is: (a) RobertMBlevins !

In other words: it will give RobertMBlevins yet one more opportunity to launch one more of his MEGA-WARs lasting months if not years, against somebody Blevins has already declared is his No.1 mortal arch enemy from birth! A Jihad of major proportions. JO WEBER will join in without mercy! So .. before launching this war call the Pres. of the United States, The National Security Council, the U.N., Danielle 1010, Bruce Smith, and all greys on Planet Aamazon!

That is the minimum that will happen.   ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) Gaur-ohn-teed!

 :)

RoJo are not posters here yet are they?

(kinda did a Hollywood thing there by joining them a bit like "Brangelina" - apologies in advance)

Are we not therefore safe to discuss William Gossett here? He seems to fit the mould reasonably well from the little I know about him.

Anyone game to discuss him  8)

Gossett should be discussed. I agree. But it will inevitably involve others who will inject themselves who have their own agenda and platform on DZ - that's all I am saying. The extent they will go to - who knows. ?  Just go for it and see what happens. RMB and Jo aren't coming here in any event. That much is per-ordained so you are safe from personal attack here.  :)   

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 11, 2014, 12:47:10 AM
Gossett, as I see it:

Upside:
1. Galen has a ton o' stuff
           - weight, height, attitude, experience
           - confession

Downside:
1. No concrete evidence
2. Wolfie was a bullshit artist
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on September 11, 2014, 01:03:55 AM
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Gossett, as I see it:

Upside:
1. Galen has a ton o' stuff
           - weight, height, attitude, experience
           - confession

Downside:
1. No concrete evidence
2. Wolfie was a bullshit artist

Maybe Galen could just tell us where he currently is on the Gossett story? I'm assuming only Galen really knows.

   
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on September 11, 2014, 03:05:23 AM
Geez, Georger, I thought it was Ken Christianson.  That's always been my subtle angle to this case.  I'm waiting for the Auburn wind generator to sign as my co-author so I can join Skipp in detention.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on September 11, 2014, 03:24:01 AM
Galen,

A certain dragon woman accused me of being you more than once, back at DZ. I don't think she apologized for her error either? Perhaps she still thinks I am you? I didn't hang around long enough to find out.

I gotta tell you, when I first saw a picture of William Gossett beside the FBI's likeness of DBC I went weak at the knees. You could hardly expect to get a closer match to the Gossett picture if you asked Tina and Flo to sit down and help prepare a sketch of Gossett.

Gossett appears to tick many boxes. I'm looking for his achilles heel but haven't found it yet.

Can you enlighten us a little about Gossett and some of the pros and cons about him being DBC? I'm not asking for a draft of your book. Just some thoughts mate.

(I better tone down my enthusiasm for Gossett as a Cooper suspect or people around here might start accusing me of being you)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 11, 2014, 03:40:57 AM
Eighteen-C, if you think Gossett's a match, wait til you see Don Burnworth. Check out his pix at the Mountain News, DB Cooper section, pix of suspects story. Or email me.

Don even did eight days in the hoosegow and he says it was because the FBI was trying to make him sweat out a confession.  However, the San Mateo County Sheriff says it was because he was found in contempt of court for taking his kids away from their mom during a custody battle.

You make the call.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 11, 2014, 03:43:03 AM
BTW 18-C, in case you are Galen Cook, he said that he's buying the next time we meet. Fish Tale Pub, Olympia, WA.

He also said that he was gonna pay back that $500 I loaned him, too, so please bring the cash as well.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on September 11, 2014, 05:26:14 AM
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BTW 18-C, in case you are Galen Cook, he said that he's buying the next time we meet. Fish Tale Pub, Olympia, WA.

He also said that he was gonna pay back that $500 I loaned him, too, so please bring the cash as well.

Assuming I am Galen I'll sit down to his (my?) book tonight and read up on William Gossett  ;)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Coopsnoop on September 11, 2014, 09:31:14 AM
18C was an empty seat.  Mitchell used it to try and lure Tina over.  DB was across the isle in 18E having his Raleighs lit by Tina.  It was a Bogey and Bacall moment with the college kid watching.  Bruce, I used the $500 to set-up the Skippy fund.  He's now safe in seclusion, far, far away from his co-author....... who's so stumped by your direct examination that he uses thousands of childish words, to hide from you.  Way to go, Uncle Brucie. 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 11, 2014, 03:03:46 PM
But you're still buying!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on September 11, 2014, 04:25:59 PM
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18C was an empty seat.  Mitchell used it to try and lure Tina over.  DB was across the isle in 18E having his Raleighs lit by Tina.  It was a Bogey and Bacall moment with the college kid watching.  Bruce, I used the $500 to set-up the Skippy fund.  He's now safe in seclusion, far, far away from his co-author....... who's so stumped by your direct examination that he uses thousands of childish words, to hide from you.  Way to go, Uncle Brucie.

Seems 18C came up empty here too regarding William Gossett. I'm detecting a firm wait for the book by your non-response.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: EVickiW on September 11, 2014, 04:57:15 PM
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18C was an empty seat.  Mitchell used it to try and lure Tina over.  DB was across the isle in 18E having his Raleighs lit by Tina.  It was a Bogey and Bacall moment with the college kid watching.  Bruce, I used the $500 to set-up the Skippy fund.  He's now safe in seclusion, far, far away from his co-author....... who's so stumped by your direct examination that he uses thousands of childish words, to hide from you.  Way to go, Uncle Brucie.

Seems 18C came up empty here too regarding William Gossett. I'm detecting a firm wait for the book by your non-response.

A few months ago, I came to the conclusion that he is only is here to bash Blevins. Nothing else. He does not answer questions or elaborate on anything regarding his suspect.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions - William Gossett
Post by: MarkBennett on September 11, 2014, 08:16:41 PM
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Apologies for the slight change of subject. But I'm becoming increasingly interested in WILLIAM GOSSETT

Gossett looks disconcertingly similar in appearance to the DBC sketches. I found it absolutely eery TBH.

Gossett also ticks the boxes the FBI seem to place a lot of stock in - his eye colour is correct and his height is near as darn it correct too.

Bruce has already mentioned other aspects of Gossett, including that he was about the right age, was a former paratrooper, was in the right place at the right time to have encountered the Dan Cooper comic, and to top it all off, confessed to the crime as well.

I'm not suggesting the above points make him DB Cooper, but he sure ticks a few boxes.

My question to the learned here is: What are the most obvious downsides to William Gossett having been Cooper???

The BIGGEST downside by far is: (a) RobertMBlevins !

In other words: it will give RobertMBlevins yet one more opportunity to launch one more of his MEGA-WARs lasting months if not years, against somebody Blevins has already declared is his No.1 mortal arch enemy from birth! A Jihad of major proportions. JO WEBER will join in without mercy! So .. before launching this war call the Pres. of the United States, The National Security Council, the U.N., Danielle 1010, Bruce Smith, and all greys on Planet Aamazon!

That is the minimum that will happen.   ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) Gaur-ohn-teed!

 :)

Georger,
I'm curious why you're still concerned about RobertMBlevins.

Over the last couple of weeks or so, there has been more discussion on this site than DZ and almost everything on DZ has been from Jo, or Bruce trying to get Robert to answer his questions on Tina.  If it weren't for that, DZ would be pretty quiet.

Other than DZ, where can Robert direct himself into the discussion?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 11, 2014, 09:00:10 PM
Thanks Mark, I hope we can move on from this whole matter with Blevins. Georger, I would appreciate if you respond to Mark that you do it in the off topic thread. lets try and stay focused on the case, and where things are being posted. I drift off too, so I'm not perfect either. I don't like the way Robert operates anymore than the rest, but I'm not going to clutter up this site with his problems.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on September 11, 2014, 09:47:22 PM
Agreed.  I pledge to do my best to avoid that topic.

Getting back to Gossett as suspect....in Geoff Gray's book there is one part where Carr is trying to locate the cigarette butts to do a DNA test for a suspect from Utah.  I don't think he'd say who it was, but it seemed likely that he was referring to Gossett or  McCoy.  So, I don't think talking about Gossett as a suspect is out there.

One point made, and it was made by the person we aren't mentioning, but it seems like a good point.  I never checked it out, though.  That is that the photo of Gossett that bears such a good resemblance to the drawing was from well before the hijacking and a photo closer to the hijacking (early 1973 I believe) showed Gossett much older looking and fatter.  Again, I can't confirm.

Of course, the drawing is a drawing and if they ever do find Cooper, he might not look exactly like it, either. So, who knows?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 11, 2014, 09:57:06 PM
I think it's Gossett where they show a video of him with extra weight on him during the time frame of the hijacking. the DNA with McCoy. they would have to find the butts to try a match his DNA through a family member. the present DNA will not work on family members. personally I don't see any point in trying to claim McCoy was Cooper. totally different in MO in my opinion. unless we invite Knoss into the forum.......not  8)


Keep in mind that if someone has something worth while to post about Robert, or KC there is no problem with that at all. leave the nonsense at the door  8)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on September 11, 2014, 10:15:10 PM
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Agreed.  I pledge to do my best to avoid that topic.

Getting back to Gossett as suspect....in Geoff Gray's book there is one part where Carr is trying to locate the cigarette butts to do a DNA test for a suspect from Utah.  I don't think he'd say who it was, but it seemed likely that he was referring to Gossett or  McCoy.  So, I don't think talking about Gossett as a suspect is out there.

One point made, and it was made by the person we aren't mentioning, but it seems like a good point.  I never checked it out, though.  That is that the photo of Gossett that bears such a good resemblance to the drawing was from well before the hijacking and a photo closer to the hijacking (early 1973 I believe) showed Gossett much older looking and fatter.  Again, I can't confirm.

Of course, the drawing is a drawing and if they ever do find Cooper, he might not look exactly like it, either. So, who knows?

Interesting point regarding the age of the Gossett picture that seems to look so much like DBC. Assuming Gossett was by late 1971 quite stocky in build it certainly goes against him. I think I read RH commenting that Kenny was too solid to be a fit for DBC.

Something I'm very conscious of is how flattering black can be as a clothing colour. What colour do most overweight women prefer? Black, because it makes them look slimmer. DBC wore a dark suit - some referred to it as having been black. Either way. Being dark it may have hidden some pounds?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on September 11, 2014, 10:23:25 PM
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I think it's Gossett where they show a video of him with extra weight on him during the time frame of the hijacking. the DNA with McCoy. they would have to find the butts to try a match his DNA through a family member. the present DNA will not work on family members. personally I don't see any point in trying to claim McCoy was Cooper. totally different in MO in my opinion. unless we invite Knoss into the forum.......not  8)

Keep in mind that if someone has something worth while to post about Robert, or KC there is no problem with that at all. leave the nonsense at the door  8)

McCoy is such a great fit for DBC in so many ways, but their personality and demeanor are so different. McCoy was menacing people with his gun and grenade whilst DBC was acting the almost perfect gentleman.

Remember also that in McCoy's written instructions he kept referring to 'we' and not 'I' Which in hindsight was clever, because it would have created more uncertainty in the minds of the crew and the authorities.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 11, 2014, 10:25:48 PM
Gosset is pretty darn close to the sketch. Kenny doesn't match if you ask me. he has a round face, and dimples/laugh lines what ever you want to call them. plus he is missing a lot of sod on the fairway  ;D :D :)

also, Kenny's hair is combed straight back, and not to the left.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on September 11, 2014, 10:36:15 PM
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Gosset is pretty darn close to the sketch. Kenny doesn't match if you ask me. he has a round face, and dimples/laugh lines what ever you want to call them. plus he is missing a lot of sod on the fairway  ;D :D :)

also, Kenny's hair is combed straight back, and not to the left.

I don't think Kenny had enough hair to qualify TBH, and as you said, his face is the wrong shape.

The likeness between that pic of Gossett - even if it was taken years earlier - is quite eerie.

Then again, I've read Gossett was a huge bullshit artist. So perhaps when he saw how much the DBC sketch resembled his earlier self he thought it would make a good bullshit story to go around claiming he was DBC?

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 11, 2014, 10:40:30 PM
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Gosset is pretty darn close to the sketch. Kenny doesn't match if you ask me. he has a round face, and dimples/laugh lines what ever you want to call them. plus he is missing a lot of sod on the fairway  ;D :D :)

also, Kenny's hair is combed straight back, and not to the left.

I don't think Kenny had enough hair to qualify TBH, and as you said, his face is the wrong shape.

The likeness between that pic of Gossett - even if it was taken years earlier - is quite eerie.

Then again, I've read Gossett was a huge bullshit artist. So perhaps when he saw how much the DBC sketch resembled his earlier self he thought it would make a good bullshit story to go around claiming he was DBC?


I've heard that through Bruce. I don't really know enough about Gossett to make any conclusions. I keep saying I'm going to look into this suspect, but never get there  :(
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 12, 2014, 04:00:51 PM
Regarding Gossett, probably the best historical source of information on Wolfie is via John Craig. Galen has given him tons of info, although there is nothing new in the past year or so.

There should be a link to John in my book, or just Google John Craig + Wolfgang Gossett.

I am in regular email contact with Galen and he tells me that his DB Cooper interest has taken a back seat to lawyering and making money.  He also has a lady in his life, and as we all know that means, well, anything.

My sense of Galen and his book is that he only wants to publish when he has solved the case, and that hasn't happened. I'm not sure why, either. In any regard, I have encouraged him to publish what he does know - about Gossett and the rest of the case - but he declines my advice. Sigh!

Galen also has an elderly mother to watch over, so life is a bit complicated in the Land of the Midnight Sun.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on September 12, 2014, 05:07:05 PM
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Regarding Gossett, probably the best historical source of information on Wolfie is via John Craig. Galen has given him tons of info, although there is nothing new in the past year or so.

There should be a link to John in my book, or just Google John Craig + Wolfgang Gossett.

I am in regular email contact with Galen and he tells me that his DB Cooper interest has taken a back seat to lawyering and making money.  He also has a lady in his life, and as we all know that means, well, anything.

My sense of Galen and his book is that he only wants to publish when he has solved the case, and that hasn't happened. I'm not sure why, either. In any regard, I have encouraged him to publish what he does know - about Gossett and the rest of the case - but he declines my advice. Sigh!

Galen also has an elderly mother to watch over, so life is a bit complicated in the Land of the Midnight Sun.

Was Gossett a CRACKHEAD! as alleged? The buzzword is out of the closet!

Or, has Gossett just been the victim of a well-orchestrated unrelenting hatchet job?



Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 12, 2014, 08:49:19 PM
?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 12, 2014, 10:01:02 PM
??
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on September 13, 2014, 03:13:38 AM
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??

Im as perplexed as you. Who thinks this stuff up!? 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 13, 2014, 04:23:38 PM
?, !
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions - William Gossett
Post by: 18C on September 13, 2014, 07:20:36 PM
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Apologies for the slight change of subject. But I'm becoming increasingly interested in WILLIAM GOSSETT

Gossett looks disconcertingly similar in appearance to the DBC sketches. I found it absolutely eery TBH.

Gossett also ticks the boxes the FBI seem to place a lot of stock in - his eye colour is correct and his height is near as darn it correct too.

Bruce has already mentioned other aspects of Gossett, including that he was about the right age, was a former paratrooper, was in the right place at the right time to have encountered the Dan Cooper comic, and to top it all off, confessed to the crime as well.

I'm not suggesting the above points make him DB Cooper, but he sure ticks a few boxes.

My question to the learned here is: What are the most obvious downsides to William Gossett having been Cooper???

When searching the DZ forums, I used the search terms of CKRET GOSSETT and pulled up two pages of information.
Search through the results here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=ckret%20gossett&sb=score&mh=25

Aahhh...the days when information was shared and members of the forum worked together.

From the shortcut you supplied an interesting quote :

Larry Carr :

"Here's the scoop on the Cook suspect, for many reasons it can't be him but this one seals it for me:

The story Cook is telling is that Gossett said he jumped into Oregon not Washington. Gossett claimed he thumped the sides of the aircraft over the Vancouver area to fool the crew and jumped much later. Anytime someone jumps from the stairs in an unlocked state it creates a pressure wave. There was only one pressure wave and it was while near the Vancouver area not past Portland.

The money find is explained as planting it to throw off the investigation. There is no logical connection to planting the money at Tenas Bar to throw off the investigation. The year is off as well, the plant apparently occurred prior to 1974.

There's more but that's enough for me.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on September 13, 2014, 07:25:19 PM
A second interesting quote - this time from Sluggo Monster - using the same shortcut to DZ :

Here’s what I have been led to believe:

Strands of hair from Gossett’s bandana (the one with the “Airborne Wings” (that you have seen in photos) and a full set of fingerprints (from some military document) were sent to the FBI.

The FBI sent the hair back (I believe) and suggested that Cook get a lab to run the DNA/mDNA and forward the results to the FBI.

I don’t know what they said about the prints. But, remember, the Bureau has only a partial (I don’t know which finger) print that they feel reasonably sure (read THINK) belonged to Cooper.


Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 13, 2014, 08:14:05 PM
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A second interesting quote - this time from Sluggo Monster - using the same shortcut to DZ :

Here’s what I have been led to believe:

Strands of hair from Gossett’s bandana (the one with the “Airborne Wings” (that you have seen in photos) and a full set of fingerprints (from some military document) were sent to the FBI.

The FBI sent the hair back (I believe) and suggested that Cook get a lab to run the DNA/mDNA and forward the results to the FBI.

I don’t know what they said about the prints. But, remember, the Bureau has only a partial (I don’t know which finger) print that they feel reasonably sure (read THINK) belonged to Cooper.


I think depending on the partial print the FBI can still get a pretty good match, or at least something to move forward with showing possibilities rather than just a story as proof.

Sometimes hijacking is as easy as riding a bike  ;D :D :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3BEzvUgopY
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 13, 2014, 09:55:14 PM
Is this Robb?  He rode up to his United flight on a bike, too, I believe.  But his jack was in late May or early June, 1972.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 13, 2014, 10:04:51 PM
Frank Sibley was his name.




http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1964&dat=19720820&id=G4AyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=IrcFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1575,1004043
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 13, 2014, 10:08:12 PM
Somebody better check the bike rack at PDX. Coopers ride just might be there  ;D :D :)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 13, 2014, 10:26:33 PM
Right, Sibley. The Norjak team dealt with him at Sea-Tac, such as John Detlor.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on September 13, 2014, 11:11:42 PM
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A second interesting quote - this time from Sluggo Monster - using the same shortcut to DZ :

Here’s what I have been led to believe:

Strands of hair from Gossett’s bandana (the one with the “Airborne Wings” (that you have seen in photos) and a full set of fingerprints (from some military document) were sent to the FBI.

The FBI sent the hair back (I believe) and suggested that Cook get a lab to run the DNA/mDNA and forward the results to the FBI.

I don’t know what they said about the prints. But, remember, the Bureau has only a partial (I don’t know which finger) print that they feel reasonably sure (read THINK) belonged to Cooper.


I think depending on the partial print the FBI can still get a pretty good match, or at least something to move forward with showing possibilities rather than just a story as proof.

Sometimes hijacking is as easy as riding a bike  ;D :D :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3BEzvUgopY

I get the impression solving the DBC case is a long way from the F.B.I.'s priority list when I read something like this:

"The FBI sent the hair back (I believe) and suggested that Cook get a lab to run the DNA/mDNA and forward the results to the FBI".
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 13, 2014, 11:18:17 PM
I would agree. they are not going to spend any resources on the case anymore. if a lead comes in, I'm guessing it will have to be a very good one. it's the last thing on there minds IMO.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on September 13, 2014, 11:23:40 PM
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I would agree. they are not going to spend any resources on the case anymore. if a lead comes in, I'm guessing it will have to be a very good one. it's the last thing on there minds IMO.

If someone walked into the F.B.I. building with the missing $194,200 in their hands they'd probably still be asked to come back when things were less busy  ;)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on September 14, 2014, 12:11:54 AM
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I would agree. they are not going to spend any resources on the case anymore. if a lead comes in, I'm guessing it will have to be a very good one. it's the last thing on there minds IMO.

If someone walked into the F.B.I. building with the missing $194,200 in their hands they'd probably still be asked to come back when things were less busy  ;)

No I don't think so! The cash would be all it would take to get their attention.  :) :) :)

You might not walk back out the same way you went in! :)

Note the unhappy-anxious? look on Pat's face while Harold is talking like a magpie!   ;)

Pat wanted a reward but didn't get it. Denise's mom wanted a reward too.   :( :(   
Tosaw eventually got involved to get them a share.  :-*

 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 14, 2014, 04:17:31 AM
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I would agree. they are not going to spend any resources on the case anymore. if a lead comes in, I'm guessing it will have to be a very good one. it's the last thing on there minds IMO.

If someone walked into the F.B.I. building with the missing $194,200 in their hands they'd probably still be asked to come back when things were less busy  ;)

18, you really think the FBI isn't talking to me because they're too busy?

Or they can't find the cigarette butts because they're too busy?

Or find the written report on the saliva-based DNA profile because they're too busy?

Or Jeremy Blauser has vanished and remains unfound because the Bureau is too busy?

Or the reports from Calame and Rhodes go unchecked because the FBI is too busy?

Or no feds were on the ground search on T-Day weekend because they were too busy?

Or the feds refuse to attend any DB Cooper Symposia because they're too busy?

So, the question really is Eighteen-C, how do you feel about the FBI and law enforcement in general? Heroes? First responders who keep us safe? Hired guns who protect the 1% A bunch of guys and gals who try to do the right thing put have to deal with a  lot of politicians who muck things up?

Do you think the FBI is telling you the truth?

Have you ever met a cop who lied to you?

How about a cop who broke the law to enforce his version of justice?

Let's go to Ferguson the next time you're in the States......
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on September 14, 2014, 05:11:23 AM
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I would agree. they are not going to spend any resources on the case anymore. if a lead comes in, I'm guessing it will have to be a very good one. it's the last thing on there minds IMO.

If someone walked into the F.B.I. building with the missing $194,200 in their hands they'd probably still be asked to come back when things were less busy  ;)

18, you really think the FBI isn't talking to me because they're too busy?

Or they can't find the cigarette butts because they're too busy?

Or find the written report on the saliva-based DNA profile because they're too busy?

Or Jeremy Blauser has vanished and remains unfound because the Bureau is too busy?

Or the reports from Calame and Rhodes go unchecked because the FBI is too busy?

Or no feds were on the ground search on T-Day weekend because they were too busy?

Or the feds refuse to attend any DB Cooper Symposia because they're too busy?

So, the question really is Eighteen-C, how do you feel about the FBI and law enforcement in general? Heroes? First responders who keep us safe? Hired guns who protect the 1% A bunch of guys and gals who try to do the right thing put have to deal with a  lot of politicians who muck things up?

Do you think the FBI is telling you the truth?

Have you ever met a cop who lied to you?

How about a cop who broke the law to enforce his version of justice?

Let's go to Ferguson the next time you're in the States......

I should have put "too busy" in inverted commas. The point I was trying to make is how low a priority the DBC case seems to rate with them.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 14, 2014, 04:15:27 PM
Low priority?  How so?

What is a low priority?  Solving Norjak, or keeping the cover-up going?

The FBI switched into a passive mood back in the 1970s, which seems to have continued in the main since, at least overtly.  The question is why. Too busy? Running out the clock? Or something else?

And where does Larry Carr and his public outreach fit in?  Where does Jeremy Blauser fit in? How did the Marla flap get orchestrated? On Curtis' coffee break? And Al Di? And who paid for GG and Portland? Crown Pub?  All to sell a couple dozen books???

If you look closely, you can see the ripples on the surface of the water suggesting that something is moving more deeply.

No?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on September 14, 2014, 05:23:58 PM
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Low priority?  How so?

What is a low priority?  Solving Norjak, or keeping the cover-up going?

The FBI switched into a passive mood back in the 1970s, which seems to have continued in the main since, at least overtly.  The question is why. Too busy? Running out the clock? Or something else?

And where does Larry Carr and his public outreach fit in?  Where does Jeremy Blauser fit in? How did the Marla flap get orchestrated? On Curtis' coffee break? And Al Di? And who paid for GG and Portland? Crown Pub?  All to sell a couple dozen books???

If you look closely, you can see the ripples on the surface of the water suggesting that something is moving more deeply.

No?

So many questions. So little time - because I gotto go to work NOW!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 14, 2014, 06:30:40 PM
The FBI as over-worked heroes rubs me the wrong way.  It's a sore spot...I get a little intense....
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on September 19, 2014, 07:24:18 PM
I don't think that Gossett being overweight shortly after the hijacking is that big of a deal.

I heard a trivia question several years ago (on the John Boy and Billy show, I think). The question was, "What is the one thing that every big lottery winner has done after winning the lottery?"  The answer: Gained weight.

I don't know if that is actually true, but it does make sense that someone could come into a large sum of money, get a little lazy, over indulge, and wake up one day and realize they're fat. I did that myself....minus the large sum of Money.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: KidCooper on September 20, 2014, 03:53:33 PM
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I don't think that Gossett being overweight shortly after the hijacking is that big of a deal.

I heard a trivia question several years ago (on the John Boy and Billy show, I think). The question was, "What is the one thing that every big lottery winner has done after winning the lottery?"  The answer: Gained weight.

I don't know if that is actually true, but it does make sense that someone could come into a large sum of money, get a little lazy, over indulge, and wake up one day and realize they're fat. I did that myself....minus the large sum of Money.

If DB Cooper was over indulging using ransom money there would need to be an explanation for why that money didnt show up in circulation.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 20, 2014, 05:02:47 PM
yup.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on September 21, 2014, 12:30:10 AM
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I don't think that Gossett being overweight shortly after the hijacking is that big of a deal.

I heard a trivia question several years ago (on the John Boy and Billy show, I think). The question was, "What is the one thing that every big lottery winner has done after winning the lottery?"  The answer: Gained weight.

I don't know if that is actually true, but it does make sense that someone could come into a large sum of money, get a little lazy, over indulge, and wake up one day and realize they're fat. I did that myself....minus the large sum of Money.

If DB Cooper was over indulging using ransom money there would need to be an explanation for why that money didnt show up in circulation.

C'mon man. Blevins has covered that one many times. They quit looking, right?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: KidCooper on September 21, 2014, 06:17:01 AM
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I don't think that Gossett being overweight shortly after the hijacking is that big of a deal.

I heard a trivia question several years ago (on the John Boy and Billy show, I think). The question was, "What is the one thing that every big lottery winner has done after winning the lottery?"  The answer: Gained weight.

I don't know if that is actually true, but it does make sense that someone could come into a large sum of money, get a little lazy, over indulge, and wake up one day and realize they're fat. I did that myself....minus the large sum of Money.

If DB Cooper was over indulging using ransom money there would need to be an explanation for why that money didnt show up in circulation.

C'mon man. Blevins has covered that one many times. They quit looking, right?

There could be an explanation for how he spent the money and it hasn't shown up in circulation, I suppose that explanation would have to be more convincing than the details of the $5000 reward for anyone who could turn in a bill from the ransom and having people come forward with bills that were only one serial number off from the ransom ones. It seems that if people were looking hard enough to find bills that were just one number off that it is likely someone would have also found one that matched if there were indeed bills from the ransom in cirulation because they're would be the same likelihood of finding a bill with a serial number with a one digit difference to one actually brought forward. Not sure what all Blevins or anyone else may have to say about it, but without an explanation that has an answer for that I have to assume the ransom money did not make it into circulation. Of course Cooper could have laundered the money and maybe used that 'clean' money to say buy a bunch of junk food and gain weight but there would still be the question of why the laundered money didn't end up in circulation. My guess would be any speculation on how the laundered money didn't end up in circulation would ultimately fall under conjecture. To me the scenario most supported by facts is that the money did not end up back in circulation. It's not as if that is an unfortunate aspect to the case, its really just a valuable piece of information that can be used to help support uncovering more about what the heck actually happened here.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on September 21, 2014, 05:02:08 PM
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I don't think that Gossett being overweight shortly after the hijacking is that big of a deal.

I heard a trivia question several years ago (on the John Boy and Billy show, I think). The question was, "What is the one thing that every big lottery winner has done after winning the lottery?"  The answer: Gained weight.

I don't know if that is actually true, but it does make sense that someone could come into a large sum of money, get a little lazy, over indulge, and wake up one day and realize they're fat. I did that myself....minus the large sum of Money.

If DB Cooper was over indulging using ransom money there would need to be an explanation for why that money didnt show up in circulation.

C'mon man. Blevins has covered that one many times. They quit looking, right?

There could be an explanation for how he spent the money and it hasn't shown up in circulation, I suppose that explanation would have to be more convincing than the details of the $5000 reward for anyone who could turn in a bill from the ransom and having people come forward with bills that were only one serial number off from the ransom ones. It seems that if people were looking hard enough to find bills that were just one number off that it is likely someone would have also found one that matched if there were indeed bills from the ransom in cirulation because they're would be the same likelihood of finding a bill with a serial number with a one digit difference to one actually brought forward. Not sure what all Blevins or anyone else may have to say about it, but without an explanation that has an answer for that I have to assume the ransom money did not make it into circulation. Of course Cooper could have laundered the money and maybe used that 'clean' money to say buy a bunch of junk food and gain weight but there would still be the question of why the laundered money didn't end up in circulation. My guess would be any speculation on how the laundered money didn't end up in circulation would ultimately fall under conjecture. To me the scenario most supported by facts is that the money did not end up back in circulation. It's not as if that is an unfortunate aspect to the case, its really just a valuable piece of information that can be used to help support uncovering more about what the heck actually happened here.

You raise a solid point regarding the money never having been found in circulation. Not one of the almost 10,000 x $20 bills ever being detected raises a fairly compelling argument. But I'd never previously heard bills only a digit away from the listed numbers were presented for reward.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: KidCooper on September 21, 2014, 07:39:40 PM
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I don't think that Gossett being overweight shortly after the hijacking is that big of a deal.

I heard a trivia question several years ago (on the John Boy and Billy show, I think). The question was, "What is the one thing that every big lottery winner has done after winning the lottery?"  The answer: Gained weight.

I don't know if that is actually true, but it does make sense that someone could come into a large sum of money, get a little lazy, over indulge, and wake up one day and realize they're fat. I did that myself....minus the large sum of Money.

If DB Cooper was over indulging using ransom money there would need to be an explanation for why that money didnt show up in circulation.

C'mon man. Blevins has covered that one many times. They quit looking, right?

There could be an explanation for how he spent the money and it hasn't shown up in circulation, I suppose that explanation would have to be more convincing than the details of the $5000 reward for anyone who could turn in a bill from the ransom and having people come forward with bills that were only one serial number off from the ransom ones. It seems that if people were looking hard enough to find bills that were just one number off that it is likely someone would have also found one that matched if there were indeed bills from the ransom in cirulation because they're would be the same likelihood of finding a bill with a serial number with a one digit difference to one actually brought forward. Not sure what all Blevins or anyone else may have to say about it, but without an explanation that has an answer for that I have to assume the ransom money did not make it into circulation. Of course Cooper could have laundered the money and maybe used that 'clean' money to say buy a bunch of junk food and gain weight but there would still be the question of why the laundered money didn't end up in circulation. My guess would be any speculation on how the laundered money didn't end up in circulation would ultimately fall under conjecture. To me the scenario most supported by facts is that the money did not end up back in circulation. It's not as if that is an unfortunate aspect to the case, its really just a valuable piece of information that can be used to help support uncovering more about what the heck actually happened here.

You raise a solid point regarding the money never having been found in circulation. Not one of the almost 10,000 x $20 bills ever being detected raises a fairly compelling argument. But I'd never previously heard bills only a digit away from the listed numbers were presented for reward.

18C, you're right, that is a misstep on my part. I had it in my head that I had previously read one digit off, but the term from Himmelsbach's book appears to have been 'near-matches' - I think I must have assumed that would mean a one digit difference because in my mind at least any more than that wouldn't really be a 'near-match' but who knows what they meant by that. Still seems reasonable that the Seattle PI's reward was an effective means for ransom money to have been brought forward if it was in fact in circulation based on whatever the 'near-matches' were. The reward stood only until '74 but I wonder if not everyone got that memo and some continued to look after '74. Not to mention the folks who would have continued keeping an eye out even knowing the chance for that reward was retracted. I wonder if you turned in a $20 today if Delta would owe you three bucks (15% NWO offer).
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on September 21, 2014, 08:05:31 PM
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I don't think that Gossett being overweight shortly after the hijacking is that big of a deal.

I heard a trivia question several years ago (on the John Boy and Billy show, I think). The question was, "What is the one thing that every big lottery winner has done after winning the lottery?"  The answer: Gained weight.

I don't know if that is actually true, but it does make sense that someone could come into a large sum of money, get a little lazy, over indulge, and wake up one day and realize they're fat. I did that myself....minus the large sum of Money.

If DB Cooper was over indulging using ransom money there would need to be an explanation for why that money didnt show up in circulation.

C'mon man. Blevins has covered that one many times. They quit looking, right?

There could be an explanation for how he spent the money and it hasn't shown up in circulation, I suppose that explanation would have to be more convincing than the details of the $5000 reward for anyone who could turn in a bill from the ransom and having people come forward with bills that were only one serial number off from the ransom ones. It seems that if people were looking hard enough to find bills that were just one number off that it is likely someone would have also found one that matched if there were indeed bills from the ransom in cirulation because they're would be the same likelihood of finding a bill with a serial number with a one digit difference to one actually brought forward. Not sure what all Blevins or anyone else may have to say about it, but without an explanation that has an answer for that I have to assume the ransom money did not make it into circulation. Of course Cooper could have laundered the money and maybe used that 'clean' money to say buy a bunch of junk food and gain weight but there would still be the question of why the laundered money didn't end up in circulation. My guess would be any speculation on how the laundered money didn't end up in circulation would ultimately fall under conjecture. To me the scenario most supported by facts is that the money did not end up back in circulation. It's not as if that is an unfortunate aspect to the case, its really just a valuable piece of information that can be used to help support uncovering more about what the heck actually happened here.

I was simply trying to point out that weight gain did not necessarily rule out Gossett. In the grand scheme of things, I do not at all think that Gossett was Cooper, and I am in total agreement with the points you make above. If the money was a plant, then you would have to believe that Cooper got away with all of the money, but none has been found. If it was not a plant, then he probably lost all of the money, which is supported by the fact that no money has been found, other than by Ingram. Total agreement.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 21, 2014, 09:28:56 PM
It might be helpful to have a broader view of international finances. Some estimates that I've read suggest that 25-30% of the world's financial transactions are black market - drugs, guns, girls, bribes, embezzlement,etc. Cooper's 200K could have entered that flow and stayed there.  I understand that some banks simply deal with dirty money as their method of exchange and never attempt to launder it for a return to the clean market. Of course, those who use this money have to carry two wallets if they want to shop at Walmart...
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: 18C on September 22, 2014, 01:07:19 AM
Am I correct in thinking Duane Weber only confessed to the one person, his wife Jo, just before he died?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 22, 2014, 03:45:40 AM
Yup.

The more intriguing secret is that Jo had to keep her Quest secret from her next husband, Jim, who she claims was the true love of her life. All those notes and files she talks about, she told me that she had to keep them hidden from her hubby.

Crazy, eh?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on September 22, 2014, 03:45:54 AM
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Am I correct in thinking Duane Weber only confessed to the one person, his wife Jo, just before he died?

Correct. No witnesses. And two weeks before he died. Supposedly he was on meds at the time and in great pain. (This is  Jo's account on DZ she has repeated many times. There is also the Pasternak article you might want to look up.)

 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 22, 2014, 03:54:57 AM
Actually nine days. Not two weeks. Jo makes a real big stink about that.

Jerry T says he has talked with the nursing staff at the hospital and they claim that Duane said nothing - no "fuck it let it die with me," etc.

Do you believe JT? I don't, not really.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: KidCooper on September 22, 2014, 05:56:53 AM
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I don't think that Gossett being overweight shortly after the hijacking is that big of a deal.

I heard a trivia question several years ago (on the John Boy and Billy show, I think). The question was, "What is the one thing that every big lottery winner has done after winning the lottery?"  The answer: Gained weight.

I don't know if that is actually true, but it does make sense that someone could come into a large sum of money, get a little lazy, over indulge, and wake up one day and realize they're fat. I did that myself....minus the large sum of Money.

If DB Cooper was over indulging using ransom money there would need to be an explanation for why that money didnt show up in circulation.

C'mon man. Blevins has covered that one many times. They quit looking, right?

There could be an explanation for how he spent the money and it hasn't shown up in circulation, I suppose that explanation would have to be more convincing than the details of the $5000 reward for anyone who could turn in a bill from the ransom and having people come forward with bills that were only one serial number off from the ransom ones. It seems that if people were looking hard enough to find bills that were just one number off that it is likely someone would have also found one that matched if there were indeed bills from the ransom in cirulation because they're would be the same likelihood of finding a bill with a serial number with a one digit difference to one actually brought forward. Not sure what all Blevins or anyone else may have to say about it, but without an explanation that has an answer for that I have to assume the ransom money did not make it into circulation. Of course Cooper could have laundered the money and maybe used that 'clean' money to say buy a bunch of junk food and gain weight but there would still be the question of why the laundered money didn't end up in circulation. My guess would be any speculation on how the laundered money didn't end up in circulation would ultimately fall under conjecture. To me the scenario most supported by facts is that the money did not end up back in circulation. It's not as if that is an unfortunate aspect to the case, its really just a valuable piece of information that can be used to help support uncovering more about what the heck actually happened here.

I was simply trying to point out that weight gain did not necessarily rule out Gossett. In the grand scheme of things, I do not at all think that Gossett was Cooper, and I am in total agreement with the points you make above. If the money was a plant, then you would have to believe that Cooper got away with all of the money, but none has been found. If it was not a plant, then he probably lost all of the money, which is supported by the fact that no money has been found, other than by Ingram. Total agreement.

Parrot, I follow and assumed your original comment was precisely for the reason you have further explained; since I had not ever heard much reasoning for how Cooper could have spent the money my response was aimed at pointing out what I mentioned from Himmelsbach's book that has led me to reason that the money did not end up in circulation. I also was vaguely fishing for any explanations that folks may have for how Cooper may have been able to spend the ransom and not have it end up in circulation and as we can see from Bruce's comment he's presented a scenario that shows it's plausible that Cooper could have laundered the money and it could have remained out of "non-black market" circulation. Maybe Cooper even went into it with the assumption that he would have to launder the money. Bruce can you point us toward some sources of info on black market currency insights? I find what you presented fascinating not just for how it may relate to Cooper but just because it's bizarre and intriguing. Although, one might still have to wonder - would some people using the black market currency system have checked their bills as well?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on September 22, 2014, 03:46:32 PM
Stayed tuned.  However, I am about to go to NY for three weeks so I won't be able to get back to you on the "black market" money stuff for awhile.

That said, I don't have any typical, hard-core sources at the moment to substantiate the notion that international criminality is financed by money "off the books." What I do have is supposition from novels that sound highly plausible to me. I know that may be quite lame to some, but for me I believe there is a lot of truth in "fiction."

Searching for information on how the black market functions is a worthy task. I will address it when I return.

Adios. Back Oct. 14.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on September 22, 2014, 11:42:28 PM
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Actually nine days. Not two weeks. Jo makes a real big stink about that.

Jerry T says he has talked with the nursing staff at the hospital and they claim that Duane said nothing - no "fuck it let it die with me," etc.

Do you believe JT? I don't, not really.

sorry! nine days not fourteen! ooee'vey!

JT told me the same story. But, Pasternak evidently tried to talk to hospital staff and could not find any witness.
You know what I think. I think Duane and Jo were Cooper fans clear back at Virginia Beach ... she admits they used to drive by McCoy's house. It is a small leap from interest in McCoy to interest in Cooper . Who can complain!

Several people including JT and one agent tell me Jo's original story when she contacted Himms was that 'Duane knew or might have known WHO Cooper was. Jo was trying to peddle Duane as some kind of big shot criminal who knew people and was "in the know", which was preposterous. She still does that today on Dropzone. It worked well enough to get Himmelsbach interested for a time! Obviously, Jo and Duane were thinking and talking about McCoy at Virginia Beach .... the extension to Cooper is automatic.

Jo admits she and Duane discussed Cooper somewhat, she says. We know Duane checked out a book on Cooper from the library and Jo even tried to claim Duane's handwriting (notes) in that books were identical to Cooper's hand writing on the ticket .... that is she claimed this UNTIL she was told Cooper didn't sign the ticket himself and then she dropped that ploy INSTANTLY! Like Blevins she claims "I never said that!"  ...

I mean if it quacks like a duck ...........   it must be a ................. hippopotamus? No something less. DB Cooper!  :) :) :)


! I have edited/corrected this post 5-00 times and it keeps reverting to the original - what does it take to edit a post and get it to stick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: BuckwheatFlowers on September 23, 2014, 08:36:29 PM
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I have edited/corrected this post 5-00 times and it keeps reverting to the original - what does it take to edit a post and get it to stick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?

Try duct tape.  In my experience, if you can't fix something with duct tape and a hammer.... it can't be fixed.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 23, 2014, 08:56:20 PM
"I have edited/corrected this post 5-00 times and it keeps reverting to the original - what does it take to edit a post and get it to stick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?"

Sorry G, I missed that entire post and didn't see you had a problem. it's happened to me before. I exit the site all together, including shutting down the browser and it seems to work for some reason. If you want to redo the post you can copy/paste it on another post and I'll remove the other. I'm not sure what causes this, but every so often it happens.

Buckwheat might be onto something. duct tape fixes everything  ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on September 23, 2014, 11:35:09 PM
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I have edited/corrected this post 5-00 times and it keeps reverting to the original - what does it take to edit a post and get it to stick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?

Try duct tape.  In my experience, if you can't fix something with duct tape and a hammer.... it can't be fixed.

yep my monitor has duct tape all over it!  There was an episode of Naked & Affraid where the guy chose duct tape over a knife or flint! His partner quit early.... 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on September 23, 2014, 11:37:08 PM
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"I have edited/corrected this post 5-00 times and it keeps reverting to the original - what does it take to edit a post and get it to stick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?"

Sorry G, I missed that entire post and didn't see you had a problem. it's happened to me before. I exit the site all together, including shutting down the browser and it seems to work for some reason. If you want to redo the post you can copy/paste it on another post and I'll remove the other. I'm not sure what causes this, but every so often it happens.

Buckwheat might be onto something. duct tape fixes everything  ;D :D ;)

I dont know what happens - if its me or you or this site or my provider or what - I just keep my nose to the grind stone clicking things and sooner or later things work. Not your fault in any event! THANKS FOR THE SYMPATHY!!! ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on September 24, 2014, 03:33:07 PM
Back to Kenny.  RobertMBlevins posted this on DZ and I thought there was an interesting little snippet in here.  Robert is a little confused about real estate transactions, but there was some good stuff.

Quote
I wonder whether Kenny told his doctor, Juan Juarez, anything about the hijacking before he died. I wonder how Kenny picked a house to buy from the same couple where the alleged accomplice served as the Best Man at the wedding...and then this alleged accomplice (Bernie Geestman) denied knowing anything about the sale of the house. And I would like to know why...if there was a promissory note shoved past the mortgage company by the couple who sold Kenny the house...why nothing about a payoff on that promissory note is in any of the paperwork on that house. It exists only as an agreement between Kenny and the Grimes couple as a way to apply for the mortgage on the remainder of the price of the home. (In other words, Kenny basically got the house for nothing more than a promise to pay a large portion of the total price on a promissory note, making a mortgage decision easy for the bank since they assumed little risk.) But there is nothing in Kenny's papers or in the property records about an actual payoff of the note. So how did Kenny pay off the note? He took about 18 years to pay off the mortgage, and the records show that, but what about the note? Was it an under-the-table cash deal, like his loan to Androsko? (I'm planning to interview someone soon who knows the answer) And where did he get the money to remodel the house immediately after he bought it?

Robert has stated he knows how Kenny bought the house but wouldn't post it because of trust issues or it would be in his book or whatever.  This, however,  is revealing.  We know Kenny assumed a mortgage for 50% of the price of house (from Smokin99 and Shutter's research).  It was always a mystery how he paid for the other half. First Robert said it was all cash, then maybe the second 50% was cash.  For the first time, Robert is stating that Kenny got the house for no money out of pocket.

So, if the preface of "into the Blast" summarizes the case as Kenny living a different life after than before the hijacking, that's gone.  Boiled down, the entire case left against Kenny comes down to that loan to Dawn Androsko, and that seems very odd itself.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 24, 2014, 05:47:00 PM
There is just too many things against him. the house was not purchased in cash, we have no real proof of any loans other than family members claiming this. we know where the large sum of money came from near the end of Kenny's life. Decoded claimed Bernie was not the accomplice. the FBI says he's not a viable suspect. Robert seems to now believe Cooper wanted to jump earlier than the known location. this puts another hole in his theory. why was Bernie at the known jump site if Kenny was jumping soon after takeoff? it goes on, and on, and on stamp/coin collection, where? expensive clock on the wall. Kenny flew overseas. how do we know he didn't get a deal on that clock?

Hopefully the FBI is monitoring the site like they are DZ  ;D :D :) hey, maybe they are shutting this site down when you click on it in the past and it went POOF  ;D :D ;) :)


Roberts logic is always skewed. I could borrow a basket from him for picking apples, during my picking I ate an orange, and a peel found it's way to the basket when I brought the basket back to Robert. he would tell everyone I lied to him about picking apples simply by seeing the orange peel in the basket! he over exaggerates, and assumes way too much.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on September 25, 2014, 01:01:42 AM
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Back to Kenny.  RobertMBlevins posted this on DZ and I thought there was an interesting little snippet in here.  Robert is a little confused about real estate transactions, but there was some good stuff.

Quote
I wonder whether Kenny told his doctor, Juan Juarez, anything about the hijacking before he died. I wonder how Kenny picked a house to buy from the same couple where the alleged accomplice served as the Best Man at the wedding...and then this alleged accomplice (Bernie Geestman) denied knowing anything about the sale of the house. And I would like to know why...if there was a promissory note shoved past the mortgage company by the couple who sold Kenny the house...why nothing about a payoff on that promissory note is in any of the paperwork on that house. It exists only as an agreement between Kenny and the Grimes couple as a way to apply for the mortgage on the remainder of the price of the home. (In other words, Kenny basically got the house for nothing more than a promise to pay a large portion of the total price on a promissory note, making a mortgage decision easy for the bank since they assumed little risk.) But there is nothing in Kenny's papers or in the property records about an actual payoff of the note. So how did Kenny pay off the note? He took about 18 years to pay off the mortgage, and the records show that, but what about the note? Was it an under-the-table cash deal, like his loan to Androsko? (I'm planning to interview someone soon who knows the answer) And where did he get the money to remodel the house immediately after he bought it?

Robert has stated he knows how Kenny bought the house but wouldn't post it because of trust issues or it would be in his book or whatever.  This, however,  is revealing.  We know Kenny assumed a mortgage for 50% of the price of house (from Smokin99 and Shutter's research).  It was always a mystery how he paid for the other half. First Robert said it was all cash, then maybe the second 50% was cash.  For the first time, Robert is stating that Kenny got the house for no money out of pocket.

So, if the preface of "into the Blast" summarizes the case as Kenny living a different life after than before the hijacking, that's gone.  Boiled down, the entire case left against Kenny comes down to that loan to Dawn Androsko, and that seems very odd itself.

Very likely Blevins is missing (or has failed to disclose) some very simple FACTS.

That has been the pattern since Blevins got started with his convoluted claims back in 2010.

For example: Blevins wrote volumes (literally) on Kenny being at Shemya, Kenny's psychology, Kenny's grudge, the Weinberg Cooper comic, et cetera. Turned out none of it was true and the Cooper comic could not have been at Shemya. Once confronted with facts, Blevins backed out from all his Shemya Hypothesis saying: "I never said that" when in fact he said every word he said over hundreds of posts, then issued a revisionist tome saying "it doesn't matter" after previously saying "this is all crucial", then dropped any mention of Shemya at all! Every segment of his socalled case has followed the same scenario. The house transaction will be no exception. Someday when this all wears down to nothing Blevins will issue his usual MIA-coppas saying "I have better things to do. Cooper isn't my whole life!  The whole thing can be summed as the ravings of a windbag.

Trying to transform some 5'8" gay farm boy from MNinnethota into 6'1-2" DB Cooper, has turned out a bit more difficult than even Blevins anticipated it would be; complete with accusations of "filthy personal abuse" and "death threats"!?    It is all filling some need in Blevins life!   ;) ;) ;)

     
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on September 28, 2014, 11:12:11 PM
I guess this article is one of the first reports about Jo Weber's claim her husband was Cooper. I noticed some things have changed over the years. she is quoted saying "leaving fingerprints on the plane" and not on the "aft stairs" also no dramatic response about Duane telling her he was "Daaaaaan Coooooper."

 "He says, 'I have a secret to tell you.' I said, 'What?' He says, 'I'm Dan Cooper.'" sounds very familiar, KC supposedly "had a secret, but couldn't tell"?? I always ask. why even bring it up?


I had to watch mt father die last year. he never spoke a word after they gave him "medication to rest" I wonder how much Duane could of really said the last couple days of his life?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/d-b-cooper-found-at-last/
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on September 29, 2014, 12:40:05 AM
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I guess this article is one of the first reports about Jo Weber's claim her husband was Cooper. I noticed some things have changed over the years. she is quoted saying "leaving fingerprints on the plane" and not on the "aft stairs" also no dramatic response about Duane telling her he was "Daaaaaan Coooooper."

 "He says, 'I have a secret to tell you.' I said, 'What?' He says, 'I'm Dan Cooper.'" sounds very familiar, KC supposedly "had a secret, but couldn't tell"?? I always ask. why even bring it up?


I had to watch mt father die last year. he never spoke a word after they gave him "medication to rest" I wonder how much Duane could of really said the last couple days of his life?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/d-b-cooper-found-at-last/

Take a stick and burst the 200 mile wide Jo Weber soap bubble!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions - Lepsy Photoshoped
Post by: georger on October 17, 2014, 12:11:40 AM
Latest promoter with a book and a manipulated (Photoshopped) photo of his "Cooper" - You don't manipulate ie. change aspect ratio and stretch!, or Photoshop your photo of your suspect to try and match the FBI sketch - DUHHHH! That is a fraudulent practice making the photo of your suspect is worthless!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on October 17, 2014, 03:19:05 AM
More baloney, this time from Jo Weber aka 'Woe Jebber" -

Woe writes: In the other place Georger stated:
"I guess this article is one of the first reports about Jo Weber's claim her husband was Cooper. I noticed some things have changed over the years. she is quoted saying "leaving fingerprints on the plane" and not on the "aft stairs" also no dramatic response about Duane telling her he was "Daaaaaan Coooooper." "


In point of fact, the quote above is not from me, on this site or on any other website in the known Universe.

Woe? Take your meds.



Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions - Grey Cop Baloney
Post by: georger on October 17, 2014, 03:49:07 AM
Grey Cop of Vancouver contended that the Ingrams were directed to the Cooper money on Tina Bar, by a neighbor of the Ingrams who had some secret info about Cooper money having been planted on Tina Bar, or, that the neighbor himself had planted the money. The neighbor was never identified and his vita was never explained; just that he was some neighbor to the Ingrams who the Ingrams knew. Grey Cop never presented any evidence or remarks from the Ingrams on this 'hypothesis' even though several of the Ingrams are still alive. Grey Cop made other allegations of fact against the Ingrams, which nobody to this date has bothered to deal with. And of course, Grey Cop highly publicised his hypothesis as 'having solved the DB Cooper case' and he said he had been working with the Seattle office of the FBI, for many months (if not years!). Grey Cop issued a number of press releases, publicly.

Grey Cop left Dropzone and has faded into obscurity, after making a number of threats against people, including myself.

Hopefully, Grey Cop has found a 'rubber room' he likes, where he is able to ruminate about his other imaginations ?

 

 

 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on October 18, 2014, 03:15:43 AM
World Famous Cooper expert pronounces plain black Cooper tie and banded Lepsy tie as 'not a bad match', per photo with his notes below, he says. Yepper!  :'(
       
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on October 18, 2014, 07:13:26 AM
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World Famous Cooper expert pronounces plain black Cooper tie and banded Lepsy tie as 'not a bad match', per photo with his notes below, he says. Yepper!  :'(
     

Lepsy would have been 35 years old in 71. the guy is trying to match a photo of Lepsy beside the Cooper sketch. he was 26 in that comparison. since they change the descriptions of Cooper over there. I guess he would be considered a serious suspect....perhaps
it's a good way to try and get attention to the public about his disappearance?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Robert99 on October 18, 2014, 12:46:27 PM
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World Famous Cooper expert pronounces plain black Cooper tie and banded Lepsy tie as 'not a bad match', per photo with his notes below, he says. Yepper!  :'(
     

Lepsy would have been 35 years old in 71. the guy is trying to match a photo of Lepsy beside the Cooper sketch. he was 26 in that comparison. since they change the descriptions of Cooper over there. I guess he would be considered a serious suspect....perhaps
it's a good way to try and get attention to the public about his disappearance?

The World Famous Cooper expert apparently didn't notice that the tie clip, in the Lepsy picture with his wife, is not a match for the Cooper tie clip.  The tie shown in the Lepsy picture appears to be a normal knotted tie and not a clip-on.  Actually, I think the clip-on tie knot would be wider and "looser" than for a knotted tie. 

And where did Lepsy get all his information on the 727 aft stairs?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on October 18, 2014, 01:53:28 PM
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World Famous Cooper expert pronounces plain black Cooper tie and banded Lepsy tie as 'not a bad match', per photo with his notes below, he says. Yepper!  :'(
     

Lepsy would have been 35 years old in 71. the guy is trying to match a photo of Lepsy beside the Cooper sketch. he was 26 in that comparison. since they change the descriptions of Cooper over there. I guess he would be considered a serious suspect....perhaps
it's a good way to try and get attention to the public about his disappearance?

Lepsy's photo is clearly a blue and blue gray stripped tie - has no relevance whatever to the Cooper tie. Pack of cigarettes in Lepsy's pocket? So what!. Undoubtedly those cigarettes are Raleigh. Stranger things have not happened, so he must be Cooper, CASE SOLVED!  ;) EDIT: He has a wife so he must have a co-conspirator too! The case for Lepsy is getting stronger by the moment.  :) :) :)
   
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on October 18, 2014, 04:37:57 PM
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World Famous Cooper expert pronounces plain black Cooper tie and banded Lepsy tie as 'not a bad match', per photo with his notes below, he says. Yepper!  :'(
     

Lepsy would have been 35 years old in 71. the guy is trying to match a photo of Lepsy beside the Cooper sketch. he was 26 in that comparison. since they change the descriptions of Cooper over there. I guess he would be considered a serious suspect....perhaps
it's a good way to try and get attention to the public about his disappearance?

The World Famous Cooper expert apparently didn't notice that the tie clip, in the Lepsy picture with his wife, is not a match for the Cooper tie clip.  The tie shown in the Lepsy picture appears to be a normal knotted tie and not a clip-on.  Actually, I think the clip-on tie knot would be wider and "looser" than for a knotted tie. 

And where did Lepsy get all his information on the 727 aft stairs?

I feel sorry the guy is missing, but he shouldn't be considered a suspect in the Cooper case. he was just to young to pass off as mid 40's. one thing I don't understand is in his description they give his height as 5'10" to 6'2"? his wife, or drivers license doesn't show his actual height, doctors etc.

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on October 18, 2014, 11:58:28 PM
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World Famous Cooper expert pronounces plain black Cooper tie and banded Lepsy tie as 'not a bad match', per photo with his notes below, he says. Yepper!  :'(
     

Lepsy would have been 35 years old in 71. the guy is trying to match a photo of Lepsy beside the Cooper sketch. he was 26 in that comparison. since they change the descriptions of Cooper over there. I guess he would be considered a serious suspect....perhaps
it's a good way to try and get attention to the public about his disappearance?

The World Famous Cooper expert apparently didn't notice that the tie clip, in the Lepsy picture with his wife, is not a match for the Cooper tie clip.  The tie shown in the Lepsy picture appears to be a normal knotted tie and not a clip-on.  Actually, I think the clip-on tie knot would be wider and "looser" than for a knotted tie. 

And where did Lepsy get all his information on the 727 aft stairs?

I feel sorry the guy is missing, but he shouldn't be considered a suspect in the Cooper case. he was just to young to pass off as mid 40's. one thing I don't understand is in his description. they give his height as 5'10" to 6'2"? his wife, or drivers license doesn't show his actual height, doctors etc.

Lepsy was not DB Cooper.  :-\  On to the next piece of manufactured housing, whose height is 4'2" - 7'9" !  :D Maybe the next guy will have one leg, and no hair 'ogkul snakke norske', by golly?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: nmiwrecks on October 31, 2014, 03:59:43 PM
Hi guys,
I came across the above comments which were made when I was banned from the site and would like to address them.  First is the description of Cooper's age.  Remember, the main source of the estimation of Coopers age is the opinions of a 22 year old woman and a 23 year old woman.  A middle aged man described the Cooper suspect as in his thirties. 

The estimation of someones age is a subjective thing, at best.  One example that comes to mind for me is many people mistake my older brother as my younger brother.  He weighs about a hundred pounds less than me, is very fit, and has a whole head of thick hair (unlike me, who got genetically screwed  :-[).  My brother is seven years older than I am.  People age differently.  Most people's age can be reasonably estimated, but there are a few outliers out there who appear older, or younger, than they really are.

Another example that pops in my head concerns a conversation I had last year with my then 23 year old daughter.  She was telling me and my wife about a "creepy old guy" at the bar that was hitting on her and trying to buy her a drink.
 "How old was this creepy old guy?" I asked. 
"29" she responded.
Women in their early twenties aren't always the best people to ask to estimate age, but they're pretty good at details like hair, teeth, eye color, etc.

When I look at the last known photo of Dick Lepsy (below), I don't see your typical 33 year old.  He looks more like he's 43 to me.  Years of smoking, stress, sun exposure and drinking are also factors which could prematurely age someone.  And then there's mannerisms.  Dick Lepsy managed a large grocery store at age 30.  That's quite an accomplishment.  He would have had to carry himself with confidence and an air of authority to gain respect from his employees, many who were older than him.  To those who knew him, he probably did seem much older than he was.


Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on October 31, 2014, 04:43:23 PM
I have to disagree on some accounts. I don't see a man any older than his description, or age shown. that's only my opinion. the typical age range for Cooper is mid 40's. the crew notes state in his 50's. this is extremely hard to try and match with someone in there early 30's. regardless of life style.

I'm currently being accused of a hit and run dating back to last year. I'm in my early fifties, and the driver claims the guy was in his 30's to 40's. every person I've spoken with has agreed that I couldn't pass for 30 years old, or early 40's. my truck doesn't even line up with the accident, and yet the State won't budge. I have a lot of other evidence I will not take space up with explaining but it appears to be a case of misidentification to the extreme.

As Farflung pointed out on dropzone, thousands of people go missing each year. this is hardly proof of deciding to hijack a plane. I respect your thoughts about him possibly being Cooper, but I don't think the FBI will have the same opinion as you do. I think his age will quickly give them the evidence needed not investigate him. they did the same with Christiansen. he doesn't fit the profile, or description. Vicki's dad has similar features, and disappeared very close to the crime. The FBI disagree's with him being a suspect. personally I think Mel should be investigated more than a lot of other suspects, but it's not up to me. Mel also has a history of disappearing.

what basic background does Lepsy have, or what would turn a seemingly family member to commit a Federal offense? I'm not trying to shoot you down, but I fail to see logic. we don't know if foul play was involved with him or not. Mel has a history of being in trouble. you would think that would open the FBI up a little, but it appears it hasn't so far.

Tina was in her early 20's if not mistaken. I think she would have said something like "he wasn't much older than I am" two stews gave descriptions close enough to put Cooper in the bracket of mid 40's. somewhere along the line the statement of in his 50's was down graded.

The sketch. how far does one go with the sketch of Cooper. it's not a photograph of him, so if the age is wrong, the sketch is just as far off that many try and put there suspect next too? Robert claims description many times are inaccurate, but has no problem putting Kenny right beside the Cooper sketch? inaccurate descriptions are usually from crimes lasting seconds where they didn't have a lot of time to get a good look. this can be found in the passengers trying to give a description of Cooper. they didn't have a reason to remember him.

I'm open to anything you want to add to this suspect. I have no problem discussing him.....
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on October 31, 2014, 05:01:51 PM
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Hi guys,
I came across the above comments which were made when I was banned from the site and would like to address them.  First is the description of Cooper's age.  Remember, the main source of the estimation of Coopers age is the opinions of a 22 year old woman and a 23 year old woman.  A middle aged man described the Cooper suspect as in his thirties. 

The estimation of someones age is a subjective thing, at best.  One example that comes to mind for me is many people mistake my older brother as my younger brother.  He weighs about a hundred pounds less than me, is very fit, and has a whole head of thick hair (unlike me, who got genetically screwed  :-[).  My brother is seven years older than I am.  People age differently.  Most people's age can be reasonably estimated, but there are a few outliers out there who appear older, or younger, than they really are.

Another example that pops in my head concerns a conversation I had last year with my then 23 year old daughter.  She was telling me and my wife about a "creepy old guy" at the bar that was hitting on her and trying to buy her a drink.
 "How old was this creepy old guy?" I asked. 
"29" she responded.
Women in their early twenties aren't always the best people to ask to estimate age, but they're pretty good at details like hair, teeth, eye color, etc.

When I look at the last known photo of Dick Lepsy (below), I don't see your typical 33 year old.  He looks more like he's 43 to me.  Years of smoking, stress, sun exposure and drinking are also factors which could prematurely age someone.  And then there's mannerisms.  Dick Lepsy managed a large grocery store at age 30.  That's quite an accomplishment.  He would have had to carry himself with confidence and an air of authority to gain respect from his employees, many who were older than him.  To those who knew him, he probably did seem much older than he was.

I'd agree that perceptions of ages vary as we get older.  When I was in my twenties I could correctly identify someone as being in their twenties, thirties, forties or fifties.  However, I'd think the fifty something looked "old".  Now that I'm in my early 50s, I can still pick people out and put them in the right decade.  But, the big difference now is fifty-somethings don't look old to me anymore and twenty somethings look like kids.

One of the common things people with a favored suspect do is try to massage the description to fit their suspect.  And, I don't mean just you.  Others have changed eye color, height and skin color differences for their suspect to match.  I don't think that's necessary.  Bill Mitchell reported that he didn't think the drawing really matched the suspect.  I think of evidence as strands of  a rope -- the more you have, the stronger your case is.  A non-exact match with the drawing isn't a deal breaker if there is other evidence supporting your case.  The problem with Lepsy, as I see it, is other than being gone, I don't see what else there is supporting his case.  We don't know of any major criminal history (the theft of $2000 is a crime, but nothing on the scale of a hijacking/air piracy). We need more strands!  This is a discussion forum, so we look forward to hearing what else you might have found.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on October 31, 2014, 05:29:48 PM
Lets remember that Florence didn't spend as much time with Cooper as Tina did, but both came to the same conclusions about his appearance. they were in different states when the were questioned by the FBI. does this set anything in stone? certainly not, but
where does one draw the line while dealing with the best known description of Cooper.

Nobody answered this question I asked the other day. where is the description from Alice? why is she faded in the background?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on October 31, 2014, 05:57:31 PM
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Hi guys,
I came across the above comments which were made when I was banned from the site and would like to address them.  First is the description of Cooper's age.  Remember, the main source of the estimation of Coopers age is the opinions of a 22 year old woman and a 23 year old woman.  A middle aged man described the Cooper suspect as in his thirties. 

The estimation of someones age is a subjective thing, at best.  One example that comes to mind for me is many people mistake my older brother as my younger brother.  He weighs about a hundred pounds less than me, is very fit, and has a whole head of thick hair (unlike me, who got genetically screwed  :-[).  My brother is seven years older than I am.  People age differently.  Most people's age can be reasonably estimated, but there are a few outliers out there who appear older, or younger, than they really are.

Another example that pops in my head concerns a conversation I had last year with my then 23 year old daughter.  She was telling me and my wife about a "creepy old guy" at the bar that was hitting on her and trying to buy her a drink.
 "How old was this creepy old guy?" I asked. 
"29" she responded.
Women in their early twenties aren't always the best people to ask to estimate age, but they're pretty good at details like hair, teeth, eye color, etc.

When I look at the last known photo of Dick Lepsy (below), I don't see your typical 33 year old.  He looks more like he's 43 to me.  Years of smoking, stress, sun exposure and drinking are also factors which could prematurely age someone.  And then there's mannerisms.  Dick Lepsy managed a large grocery store at age 30.  That's quite an accomplishment.  He would have had to carry himself with confidence and an air of authority to gain respect from his employees, many who were older than him.  To those who knew him, he probably did seem much older than he was.

I'd agree that perceptions of ages vary as we get older.  When I was in my twenties I could correctly identify someone as being in their twenties, thirties, forties or fifties.  However, I'd think the fifty something looked "old".  Now that I'm in my early 50s, I can still pick people out and put them in the right decade.  But, the big difference now is fifty-somethings don't look old to me anymore and twenty somethings look like kids.

One of the common things people with a favored suspect do is try to massage the description to fit their suspect.  And, I don't mean just you.  Others have changed eye color, height and skin color differences for their suspect to match.  I don't think that's necessary.  Bill Mitchell reported that he didn't think the drawing really matched the suspect.  I think of evidence as strands of  a rope -- the more you have, the stronger your case is.  A non-exact match with the drawing isn't a deal breaker if there is other evidence supporting your case.  The problem with Lepsy, as I see it, is other than being gone, I don't see what else there is supporting his case.  We don't know of any major criminal history (the theft of $2000 is a crime, but nothing on the scale of a hijacking/air piracy). We need more strands!  This is a discussion forum, so we look forward to hearing what else you might have found.

"Massage" their suspect is the right word. Massage then turns to wholesale revision of reality with all sorts of claims that witnesses and the FBI got it wrong ... there's no end to it as we have seen. To cut through all of the kah kah Ckret finally said to Weber: "Put Duane on the plane and/or produce a Cooper twenty" ... Jo responded by saying Duane has had a Cooper twenty! There is no end to the length these fabricators will go. Blevins trick message has become: "I have no idea if Kenny was or was not, probably wasn't" while at the same arguing endlessly he was!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on October 31, 2014, 06:02:29 PM
The discussion is about Lepsy, not Weber. big difference here.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on October 31, 2014, 09:35:05 PM
In the photo below are the notes from the crew during the hijacking. I'm still having trouble with a 23 year old not being able to spot someone just 10 years older than herself and concluding his age at first to be in his 50's. In my opinion bringing Cooper's age down to 30 years old would unlock even more false suspects to surface. I believe a passenger put Cooper in that range, but the FBI is going by the people who had contact with him. the passengers didn't have a reason to remember him so different views come into play.

I'm interested in Lepsy's background to see if anything pops up for a possible link......

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions - up the anti!
Post by: georger on October 31, 2014, 11:40:24 PM
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In the photo below are the notes from the crew during the hijacking. I'm still having trouble with a 23 year old not being able to spot someone just 10 years older than herself and concluding his age at first to be in his 50's. In my opinion bringing Cooper's age down to 30 years old would unlock even more false suspects to surface. I believe a passenger put Cooper in that range, but the FBI is going by the people who had contact with him. the passengers didn't have a reason to remember him so different views come into play.

I'm interested in Lepsy's background to see if anything pops up for a possible link......

Let's UP the anti! This post will get little coverage but here goes -

Crket said to all potential suspect venders: (1) place him on the airplane, (2) produce a Cooper twenty in the hands of the suspect, (c) provide something crucial, tangible, and provable that links the suspect to the DB Cooper case. Any actual Cooper suspect would pass this litmus test.

We could add finger prints and a matching partial dna profile to the list.   
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions - up the anti!
Post by: MarkBennett on November 01, 2014, 12:09:08 AM
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In the photo below are the notes from the crew during the hijacking. I'm still having trouble with a 23 year old not being able to spot someone just 10 years older than herself and concluding his age at first to be in his 50's. In my opinion bringing Cooper's age down to 30 years old would unlock even more false suspects to surface. I believe a passenger put Cooper in that range, but the FBI is going by the people who had contact with him. the passengers didn't have a reason to remember him so different views come into play.

I'm interested in Lepsy's background to see if anything pops up for a possible link......

Let's UP the anti! This post will get little coverage but here goes -

Crket said to all potential suspect venders: (1) place him on the airplane, (2) produce a Cooper twenty in the hands of the suspect, (c) provide something crucial, tangible, and provable that links the suspect to the DB Cooper case. Any actual Cooper suspect would pass this litmus test.

We could add finger prints and a matching partial dna profile to the list.

Good point.  As far as I can tell, none of the suspects discussed can pass that test.  And nobody is even close.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions - up the anti!
Post by: georger on November 01, 2014, 04:02:56 AM
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In the photo below are the notes from the crew during the hijacking. I'm still having trouble with a 23 year old not being able to spot someone just 10 years older than herself and concluding his age at first to be in his 50's. In my opinion bringing Cooper's age down to 30 years old would unlock even more false suspects to surface. I believe a passenger put Cooper in that range, but the FBI is going by the people who had contact with him. the passengers didn't have a reason to remember him so different views come into play.

I'm interested in Lepsy's background to see if anything pops up for a possible link......

Let's UP the anti! This post will get little coverage but here goes -

Crket said to all potential suspect venders: (1) place him on the airplane, (2) produce a Cooper twenty in the hands of the suspect, (c) provide something crucial, tangible, and provable that links the suspect to the DB Cooper case. Any actual Cooper suspect would pass this litmus test.

We could add finger prints and a matching partial dna profile to the list.

Good point.  As far as I can tell, none of the suspects discussed can pass that test.  And nobody is even close.

Here is a perfect example of massaging:

I took extensive notes during interviews, which were always done with the subject's permission. Some interviews were recorded either on a digital voice recorder or a vid camera. Also with the subject's permission. I also kept extensive notes. The only time anyone got angry with me was during my initial interview with Helen Jones. She told me I had a lot of nerve hinting that her good friend Kenny Christiansen could be a crook. She said she didn't want to talk to me, but offered to read from a bundle of notes I had and look at some pictures...all about Kenny and Geestman. She told me to leave them with her and to come back in a couple of hours.

When I returned she said: "Come on in, I will talk to you." Her daughter had shown up, as well. We did interviews over the next two days. She was very helpful.

By the end of the second day of interviews, she was not only fully cooperative, but told me this:

Quote:
"How could he (Kenny) have done such a thing?" Smile

I actually tried to give her an answer. I told her: "I think he just got tired of all the bullshit and all the strikes at Northwest, and that after all those years he was still only making five hundred a month."

Bernie Geestman is a liar many times over. And every one of those lies, both to me and to reps from History Channel, concerned distancing himself from any possible involvement in the hijacking, or with Kenny's financial dealings directly after the crime.


Nothing above addresses any point crucial to whether KC was Cooper or not. Worse still, it's not the interviewer's job to supply thoughts and ANSWERS to a witnesses! Blevins is supplying interpretation and thoughts to the witness's remark above! He never asks her what she means! Her remark may have meant the exact opposite of what Blevins is supplying she meant!

We know what Blevins thinks and says, all too well. We need to know what the witness meant, not what Blevins says she means! Bruce Kitt complained about the same thing: namely that Belvins had intentionally selected a few of his remarks and presented his remarks to mean something exactly the opposite to what Kitt actually thought and said to the producer and Meltzer! Kitt says he did not intend to say what Blevins is saying he said!

Blevins has a bad habit of putting words in people's mouths and offering his own explanations instead of having witnesses explain what they actually said and meant. Very often we never get to know what a witness even meant because Blevins has already cut the process short by supplying the interpretation he wants us to have instead of exploring with people what they are saying and meaning. The above is a perfect example of that. Quite frankly, I think witnesses are merely an inconvenient obstacle for Blevins because Blevins is always going to tell us what HE thinks people are said ... instead of allowing people to speak for themselves!

This is massaging in it's extreme form. It's the work of a fanatic vs. a researcher or a real journalist.     

Blevins must always reply because fanatics must always have the last word -   :)  They need to control the message!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on November 01, 2014, 10:59:05 AM
That's a good example, all of Robert's witnesses knew nothing that would tie Kenny to the hijacking until he put it in their heads.  Even after the facts, none of his witnesses would say they believed or had any information that would link him to the hijacking.  There is no there there.

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on November 01, 2014, 04:04:36 PM
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That's a good example, all of Robert's witnesses knew nothing that would tie Kenny to the hijacking until he put it in their heads.  Even after the facts, none of his witnesses would say they believed or had any information that would link him to the hijacking.  There is no there there.

Blevins is like a good used car salesman, he says things like this:  No worries.Like I said, none of this means Kenny was Cooper. But whether you like it or not, or whether you FEAR this or not...we will find out the truth on him. And we are closer to that than you think. Wink

No worries?
Whether you like it or not?
Whether you FEAR this or not?
WINK!

Who is he speaking for? The Arc Angle Michael? His attempt to exploit or trigger people's emotions probably means he doesn't have squat for evidence. Does he invoke these metaphors when stopped by cops for speeding or running a red light? It's very funny. More to the point: who does he think he's kidding-impressing? The weak minded and small children and animals!?  :) :)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on November 01, 2014, 04:34:05 PM
I seriously doubt he has anything new. Kenny has had enough exposure to of brought something forward, as Georger says, squat happened. except for the hundreds of emails he gets from "the public". his plan is a good one by acting out the "trust" issue, and only allowing the media, or LE to "examine" the new found evidence. that gives him time to spare since he has nothing new. what happened with the DNA? things were rolling right along faster than anyone dealing with the FBI? one email to them, and show was on the road. if it happened that quick, shouldn't the findings follow the same speed? where are the updates, and emails back and forth with all involved? this was moving at a rapid pace.

Marla again. what would Robert have done if Marla claimed she didn't trust him and refused to answer any questions? he would still be going on about it to this day! he believes dropzone is the only place to go when it comes to DB Cooper.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions - protocols concerning chain of evidence
Post by: georger on November 02, 2014, 02:09:15 AM
Blevins' big mouth has done him in again. His post below at Dropzone is a (proud) admission on his part, of having violated the standard protocols concerning the chain of evidence. As an "interested third party", Blevins is "not" allowed to have any role, receive, touch, or be in the chain of acquiring or receiving evidence, between the primary subject and the testing service provider. As an "interested third party" Blevins is not allowed to be in the chain of physical evidence - period!

The Sheriff in Minnesota should have sent any samples collected by his Department from Lyle, directly to the testing provider, along with signed affidavit(s).

The fact that Blevins was allowed to be in the chain of evidence nullifies everything. The FBI can and may refuse any test results from Arc Point just on principle alone. Blevins, Lyle, and Arc Point must now start all over again and follow the rules of the road this time.

The Sheriff at Minnesota and Arc Point are supposed to be professionals and know the protocols of how to collect and transfer bio-evidence. Blevins should not have been allowed to be in the chain because he is very clearly an "interested third party".

There are standard recognised protocols which govern the whole issue of collecting and transferring evidence.

Blevins' post which revealed his omission is this:
 
RobertMBlevins

Oct 30, 2014, 9:21 PM
Post #55882 of 55907 (713
2012: I contact the FBI again and ask them if the DNA samples taken from Lyle Christiansen by two Minneapolis FBI agents have ever been profiled and compared to the tie sample profile. Two days later I get a response. No, and no one knows where the samples are now. (Lyle was visited by the Minneapolis FBI after he went public. They took DNA swabs from him at that time.)

October 2014: DNA samples arrive at our office, taken by the sheriff in Morris, MN from Lyle Christiansen. These samples, which remain sealed in our offices, will be submitted to Artc Point and a profile done. The results of this profile will be submitted along with the new report on Christiansen, which now runs more than sixty pages. Three people outside our offices are now in possession of this report, minus the profile results. The completed report will be submitted to the Seattle FBI in January 2015, after we finish a couple of more interviews and wait for the results of the DNA profile.

 

 



       
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on November 02, 2014, 03:52:23 AM
Identification of the tested parties at collection, which includes verifying IDs and taking pictures of tested parties;
Obtaining consent from adult tested parties and legal guardians for minor tested parties;
Collection of specimens from the tested parties performed by a trained third-party professional who will document his involvement truthfully;
Proper labeling and packaging of the specimens by the collector;
Shipping specimens by courier services directly to the laboratory;
Receipt of specimens by the DNA laboratory;
Transfer and testing of specimens within the DNA laboratory;
Storage of specimens;
Reporting of results with case specific chain-of-custody documents.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on November 02, 2014, 10:11:23 AM
I'm a little confused here. why would Lyle contact the Sheriff to have the DNA test done when Arc Point has a lab close by? the proper protocol would be to go to them, or they will come to you and do the testing. would the County Sheriff agree to do a test like this? who is paying the County for there services. the crime occurred outside of Minnesota.

"Our mobile resources allow us to be trustworthy for law enforcement agencies, lawyers, private investigators and others in the judicial system."

How is it that the FBI is discussing an open case with anyone? how are they answering Roberts constant questions to them. the usual response is "we can not discuss the details of an open case" the only person they should respond to would be Lyle. he had the testing done. (no proof of this)

They wouldn't even talk to Decoded, and yet Robert get answers?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: EVickiW on November 02, 2014, 10:46:34 AM
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I'm a little confused here. why would Lyle contact the Sheriff to have the DNA test done when Arc Point has a lab close by? the proper protocol would be to go to them, or they will come to you and do the testing. would the County Sheriff agree to do a test like this? who is paying the County for there services. the crime occurred outside of Minnesota.

"Our mobile resources allow us to be trustworthy for law enforcement agencies, lawyers, private investigators and others in the judicial system."

How is it that the FBI is discussing an open case with anyone? how are they answering Roberts constant questions to them. the usual response is "we can not discuss the details of an open case" the only person they should respond to would be Lyle. he had the testing done. (no proof of this)

They wouldn't even talk to Decoded, and yet Robert get answers?

First of all. Is he getting answers? 

When my DNA was taken, it was taken from a deputy at Ramsey County. I set it up with my friend who works at the department. With a few phone calls with NamUs they sent a DNA packet to the County. When the Sheriff's Department received the testing kit from the University of North Texas (UNT is the testing lab for NamUs), I had to go to the Sheriff's Dept. and a licensed deputy swabbed my cheeks. He sealed the swab into the plastic vial and again sealed it into an envelope. On that envelope was the "chain of custody".  The envelope was put into another envelope and mailed to the University of north Texas for the testing. In the case of my brother, his DNA test was done by the military police at Fort Bragg. They used the packet sent by the University of North Texas.

Once UNT completed the  DNA profiles they were put into the missing persons CODIS database. Janet Franson, my liaison at NamUs sent a few emails to SA Curtis Eng asking the FBI lab to compare the samples to the Cooper DNA. She did not get a response. She sent a third email and received a message from the PIO Ayn Deitrich giving her the brush off. So...if an agent from another Department of Justice program gets the brush off why would anybody else get an answer from the FBI.

Here is the email sent to Curtis Eng at the Seattle FBI by Janet Franson at NamUs:

"Agent Eng,
Please accept this as my formal request to request the FBI lab to compare the DNA samples you have of D.B. Cooper, with the samples that the University of N. Texas has with one Melvin Wilson, UNT missing person MP# 15178.
This potential match has been requested before, but was not responded to.
Your assistance with this comparison would be greatly appreciated.
"

and the email Janet received by Ayn Dietrich:

From: Dietrich, Ayn S. [Ayn.Dietrich@ic.fbi.gov]
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 5:32 PM
To: Franson, Janet
Cc: Eng, Curtis J.
Subject: RE: Request DNA comparison ref D.B. Cooper

"Hello, Ms. Franson—
 
I work with Special Agent Eng in the FBI Seattle field office and I handle inquiries from the media and public.  SA Eng forwarded me your email so I could explain to you the limitations we face in responding to your inquiry.
 
During any given investigation, the FBI receives many tips, follows many leads, and talks to many people.  In accordance with DOJ policy, we cannot discuss details of ongoing investigations. This includes not disclosing subjects considered and/or excluded, and investigative techniques that may be used.  I understand the public and valued partners to the FBI are curious about the FBI's investigative process, and they may rest assured that the FBI pursues all leads that we believe will provide us with information of investigative value. 

SA Eng has received your messages and handled them appropriately.  I apologize that we are unable to disclose the nature and extent of our investigative response.
 
Regards,
Ayn"
 
 
———————————————
Ayn Sandalo Dietrich
Public Affairs, FBI Seattle
206-262-2390


So. It is difficult to believe that ArcPoint would get anything more than a brush off.

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on November 02, 2014, 10:59:14 AM
Basically you couldn't gain custody of the sample to say, send it to me. Is that correct?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: EVickiW on November 02, 2014, 11:15:29 AM
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Basically you couldn't gain custody of the sample to say, send it to me. Is that correct?

Nope...but if you want I will swab my cheek with a Q-Tip, place it in a ziploc and send it to you in a number 9 envelope.   ;) :D
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on November 02, 2014, 11:28:55 AM
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Basically you couldn't gain custody of the sample to say, send it to me. Is that correct?

Nope...but if you want I will swab my cheek with a Q-Tip, place it in a ziploc and send it to you in a number 9 envelope.   ;) :D

That would be fine. please seal the ziploc with a 'chewed' piece of gum in case the swab is compromised  ;D ;D :D ;)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on November 02, 2014, 02:14:57 PM
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I'm a little confused here. why would Lyle contact the Sheriff to have the DNA test done when Arc Point has a lab close by? the proper protocol would be to go to them, or they will come to you and do the testing. would the County Sheriff agree to do a test like this? who is paying the County for there services. the crime occurred outside of Minnesota.

"Our mobile resources allow us to be trustworthy for law enforcement agencies, lawyers, private investigators and others in the judicial system."

How is it that the FBI is discussing an open case with anyone? how are they answering Roberts constant questions to them. the usual response is "we can not discuss the details of an open case" the only person they should respond to would be Lyle. he had the testing done. (no proof of this)

They wouldn't even talk to Decoded, and yet Robert get answers?

This isnt worth my time@!

Go with Vicki's account. That is SOP in these situations.

This is cheap theatre and totally boring. Blevins is just a buffoon going in circles taking others with him. The procedures for handling evidence were established decades ago! If Blevins etal chose to violate those standards that is his business - it's no surprise given his record.

There are numerous manuals-directives on this from a host of sources, from the CDC, NIH, FBI, etc... examples:
http://www.nfstc.org/pdi/lab_manual/Linked%20Documents/Protocols/pdi_lab_pro_2.01.pdf
http://www.justice.gov/oig/special/0405/final.pdf
http://www.nist.gov/forensics/upload/NIST-IR-7928.pdf

Case closed.

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions - Blewvins changes his story! again!
Post by: georger on November 03, 2014, 12:20:44 AM
Does Blevins ever get anything straight? Now he says the FBI did not get Lyles dna as Blevins previously reported. officially.

RobertMBlevins

Nov 2, 2014, 9:02 PM
Post #55946 of 55947 (17 views)
Shortcut
   
Re: [skyjack71] Blevins was SPOOFED! [In reply to]    Can't Post
Not spoofed...just mistaken. Upon checking with Lyle tonight via email, he told me that he's also heard that story about the FBI paying him a visit and taking his DNA. They have NOT done this. It was just another dead end, rumor, whatever.

This matters little, except I probably should have checked with Lyle first before posting about that. We DO have Lyle's DNA samples now...and they will be run by ArcPoint to obtain his profile for comparison to the tie sample profile.

Well, at least now I know why Agent Fred Gutt didn't seem to know anything about it, or whether any sample from Lyle had been run. (Or where they were if they existed) Crazy

Yes. Even I make mistakes. I don't mind owning up when I do.

(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Nov 2, 2014, 9:05 PM)


So where did Blevins get the story that the FBI had already collected dna from Lyle, if not from Lyle? Did Blevins just make it up? Here's his previous post on the matter:

RobertMBlevins

Oct 30, 2014, 9:21 PM
Post #55882 of 55907 (713
2012: I contact the FBI again and ask them if the DNA samples taken from Lyle Christiansen by two Minneapolis FBI agents have ever been profiled and compared to the tie sample profile. Two days later I get a response. No, and no one knows where the samples are now. (Lyle was visited by the Minneapolis FBI after he went public. They took DNA swabs from him at that time.)


[edit] It must be totally obvious that Mr. Blevins doesn't obey any rules, and he doesn't have to! He's going ahead just as he has for the last 4 years whether anyone likes it or not. Blevins is a law unto himself. The results are probably going to be an endless succession of empty claims and announced revisions and more and more claims with no significant change in an ever-expanding chaos which nobody could have predicted was possible - until Blevins himself pulls the cork, which could be never! It's the same scenario with Jo Weber.

There never is much consolation when dealing with some personality disorders. Best to just stay out of their way and let authorities deal with them as needed.
 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on November 03, 2014, 07:16:34 AM
To date it appears the story came directly from Skipps website. he claims they have Lyle's DNA. the rest appears to be enlarged by Mr. Honest. I'll check more once I return back from work...
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on November 04, 2014, 02:13:43 AM
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To date it appears the story came directly from Skipps website. he claims they have Lyle's DNA. the rest appears to be enlarged by Mr. Honest. I'll check more once I return back from work...

If its even possible to recall these things,  :) :) :) :) :) ... that sounds about right! I love it. It's crazier than a trillion bed bugs in a camel hair rug!

By the way just for the record, I cant recall I ever never-ever asked DZ to be taken down. I complained a bunch but I always felt there were human beings who had to have a home whether I was there and happy or not so...... to each his own. And that will be my final, final-final, newly revised final final,  final, final-final, newly revised final final,  final, final-final, newly revised final final,  final, final-final, newly revised final final,  word on the subject, finally.  :) :)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on November 07, 2014, 11:01:04 AM
Hi to all the sleuths:

Something that has to be brought to the attention of the FBI is that their finding that DB died in the jump is really a dumb conclusion. Especially if that is the reason they (FBI) are no longer working on the case. All other jet jumpers survived the jump and I am sure that Sheridan Peterson had many skills in skydiving that made it possible for him to survive the jump. Earl Cossey helped the FBI determine that DB died in the jump and Cossey might have been part of the ground DB Cooper support guys. Cossey could have helped the FBI come to the conclusion to help cover-up what really happened. The strange answers from Cossey before he died, leads me to conclude he was involved in the caper. He knew Sharidon from the early days of Sheridon bringing the Boeing Skydiving Club (which he started) to Issaquah. Cossey could have been one of the ground guys and the launder of the loot in the many Casino's he visited on a regular basis. He could have been the investor of the loot for Sheridan which worked for 40 years.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw00@gmail.com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on November 07, 2014, 01:09:48 PM
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Hi to all the sleuths:

Something that has to be brought to the attention of the FBI is that their finding that DB died in the jump is really a dumb conclusion. Especially if that is the reason they (FBI) are no longer working on the case. All other jet jumpers survived the jump and I am sure that Sheridan Peterson had many skills in skydiving that made it possible for him to survive the jump. Earl Cossey helped the FBI determine that DB died in the jump and Cossey might have been part of the ground DB Cooper support guys. Cossey could have helped the FBI come to the conclusion to help cover-up what really happened. The strange answers from Cossey before he died, leads me to conclude he was involved in the caper. He knew Sharidon from the early days of Sheridon bringing the Boeing Skydiving Club (which he started) to Issaquah. Cossey could have been one of the ground guys and the launder of the loot in the many Casino's he visited on a regular basis. He could have been the investor of the loot for Sheridan which worked for 40 years.

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw00@gmail.com

Cossey has turned out to be a less-than-perfect 'story teller'. He seems to have enjoyed the role of posturing: being thrust into a central position on the one hand and playing that card, then claimed he was sick of all the attention on the other refusing to talk to people. What hard answers he had got all scrambled due in part to his own selective withholding and playing with key facts. Cossey-the-gambler playing with DBC tender, as if it was his own. Who and what is left to believe? In the end Cossey is just one witness.

Something tells me the FBI looked into a possible Cossey-Peterson connection, but I can't prove that.

What interests me more, is where are the key files and evidence not found at Seattle when so-called researchers were allowed to poke around there?  The veracity and full role of Cossey seems to be missing, like key files. Or, we have all that was ever there in the first place?



Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on November 07, 2014, 11:48:09 PM
More Self Serving Double Talk and Made Up Stuff from Blevins -

quothe: Hate to burst your bubble...

But your information is YEARS old. Don't you think I know that the original book has errors? Of course I do. This is why when people send me messages about it, I warn them that it does have errors, and that it should only be used as a general guide on Christiansen.

If the book were THE reference on Christiansen and the people who knew him, and had all the correct answers on his story, I could just send the Seattle FBI a copy of the book. This is why it was necessary to create a fully updated report on him, and correct any and all errors on the evidence and make sure the testimony of witnesses is solid. You quote stuff from 2010 or whatever. And then there is the reality of what we discovered since then.
However, I think some of you are worried we might be right, or even that the Seattle FBI might take this report more seriously with the additional testimony from Geestman's own family.

And in my humble opinion, I wonder if some of you are being just a little bit phony. I will do you the courtesy of telling you why. It's because if you were REALLY looking for the truth on Christiansen you would support the idea of submitting this report ASAP to the Seattle FBI. You would WANT to see this done because you would want to know the truth about him. Instead, many of you seem afraid of the possibility that the Seattle FBI might actually investigate Kenny and Friends this time. I can even guess at your motivations.
Some of you have invested so much time, effort, and postings into saying I 'fabricated' the evidence on Kenny, or made things up, or went negative to the point of being banned (Meyer Louie and Georger, for example) that you would choke yourselves to death if Kenny turned out to be Cooper. This idea is absolutely anathema to you. It would be like having to swallow a golf ball. I can understand this as well.

I wouldn't worry too much. Chances are that Kenny will turn out to be like all the other suspects who have been forwarded as Cooper...a dead end. The only thing we're really trying to accomplish here is to get the FBI to do something they have never done before - just take a good, hard look at Kenny Christiansen and the people still alive who knew him. No matter what you may have heard elsewhere, they have never done that. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that concept, even if YOU do. 


Lessons Learnt:  (a) a book is not a reference. (b) a book is a guide. (c) a guide is not a reference, and a reference is not a guide! (d) you fear and worry according to Blevins. Don't worry. Don't fear. But you will fear and worry because Blevins says you are fearing and worrying! Fear and worry as essential components of the Blevins Pea Party Dialectic! (e) Georger was banned from Dropzone. A perma-perma bananaana.

Have you got that all straight? Call Blevins and B&G Houscleaning in Auburn Washing if you have any questions. 

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on November 13, 2014, 01:10:43 PM
New - New Suspects coming to a bookstore near you soon!
(all based on the BIG CHANGE coming soon via Bruce Smith & Jo Weber, November-January 2014-1492).
Do you know any of these missing persons ?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on November 19, 2014, 11:55:12 PM
A new suspect, Georger?  I thought Mrs. cooper was going to prove to the world that she is, um, Mrs. Cooper.  As for me, my Big Announcement is that I'm back, looking for a ride to Ariel, and will be getting my book out in e-form on Amazon in the upcoming weeks.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on November 22, 2014, 03:02:49 PM
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A new suspect, Georger?  I thought Mrs. cooper was going to prove to the world that she is, um, Mrs. Cooper.  As for me, my Big Announcement is that I'm back, looking for a ride to Ariel, and will be getting my book out in e-form on Amazon in the upcoming weeks.

Nothing I say on this subject ever gets taken seriously. The chance of the ordinary person coming up with a random suspect that is Cooper is extremely small - infinitesimally small. Better to try the lottery. Random Missing persons equally small probability. My Dad or my mom - nearly the same probability. My uncle Harry who liked planes - still a tiny probability. I rate all of the people on these forums who have brought some person forward as in the same category - tiny to infinitesimal chance that person was Cooper.

The main reason is we are generally NOT in a position to be selecting suspects - the population of people available for our inspection is very tiny to a nonexistent fraction of the sample size you would need to even begin to select a candidate, assuming you had facts to help make a selection! That is why genetics has always been the best chance.

Even if you had certain facts about Cooper, it still is a numbers-game. It makes for idle conversation and that is all.

That is why I have always tried to focus on developing the facts of the case. Having facts about what Cooper did can help lead to who Cooper might have been, pending hard physical evidence like genetics or finger prints.

 

   
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on November 22, 2014, 04:21:40 PM
Yup, I love facts, too.

Any chance I could talk with those FBI agents you say you talked with about the soggy bundle?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on November 27, 2014, 12:35:17 PM
Here's a new one.....From Geoff Gray:

http://huntfordbcooper.com/the-cooper-canadian-spy-conspiracy
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on November 27, 2014, 01:07:44 PM
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Here's a new one.....From Geoff Gray:

http://huntfordbcooper.com/the-cooper-canadian-spy-conspiracy

More gobblewobble from Gray.

It never ceases to amaze me how some of these so-called journalists think they OWN the Cooper case. Frankly, there isn't one tinker's damn worth of difference between the bunch of these smut peddlers. That includes Blevins and Jo Weber.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on December 08, 2014, 03:30:01 AM
A post worth sharing! - - -

ParrotheadVol
Dec 7, 2014, 9:04 PM
Post #56402 of 56405 (134 views)

Re: [RobertMBlevins] Was Kenny Christiansen a Child Molester? [In reply to]    Can't Post

None of us like to be accused of things that we are not guilty of. I would certainly not like to be accused of hijacking a plane and threatening to murder several innocent people. I would certainly not like to be accused of being a child molester. I would hope that after I am gone, that I would also not be accused of either. Why? It's simple. True or not, Some people hear these type of things a believe them.

I do not know Kenny Christiansen or have enough knowledge about him to suggest that he was a child molester. I hope for the sake of several once young boys, that he was not. But if I had a gay neighbor that took in young boys, I can assure you that the first contact he made with my son would be his last. It does look questionable. Doesn't mean it is though. Hopefully, it was perfectly innocent behavior.

But, it does beg a question. Suppose, perhaps even assume, that Kenny was neither a child molester or Dan Cooper. How do you think that he would have responded to each allegation? Who would he be more pissed off at? Bruce, for merely repeating what was in Gray's book and never really made a full accusation...OR Blevins, who has co-authored a book, spent countless hours on websites posting messages and posting videos, and trying to transform his accusations into a movie? If truly innocent of all of this, who has done the most damage to Kenny's reputation. Also, simply because ones friends and family also make these accusations, don't make them any more right or alleviate any guilt from making these claims.

Robert likes to say that Kenny was either Cooper or he wasn't. I tend to put it this way: The Kenny story is either true, or it's slander.

ParrotheadVol
(This post was edited by ParrotheadVol on Dec 7, 2014, 9:08 PM)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on December 08, 2014, 07:43:40 AM
I don't think Parrot is claiming Bruce was part of the slander statement. at least I didn't read it that way. it's surrounding the fact of Robert stating things from every avenue he can find be it the internet, books, television, newspaper, or even the big screen screaming Kenny was the one who decided to put dozens of people into danger. Bruce stated, or quoted something already said and put a little more into what Gray could of been stating, plus Bruce is not going through every avenue to state what he said.

It seems to be ok for Robert to claim Kenny is Cooper based on several people, but Bruce can't state something already said by someone about Kenny's behavior? both are not really supported by anything other than what people have claimed in the past (hearsay). he asked Bruce for one piece of evidence pointing in that direction, but failed to notice it was there the whole time.

A typical parent would not allow something like that happen, period. was Michael Jackson ever proven to be a molester? I don't believe so, but I wouldn't allow my children around him unsupervised. I think Bruce read a little too much into what Parrot was stating, or who he was stating could be slanderous in my opinion.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on December 08, 2014, 12:16:22 PM
You read it correct Shutter. I like Bruce, he asks the tough questions, which is much needed in Cooperville.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on December 08, 2014, 12:50:29 PM
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You read it correct Shutter. I like Bruce, he asks the tough questions, which is much needed in Cooperville.

I thought I read it correctly. hopefully Bruce will se these comments along with your update on DZ.

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on December 08, 2014, 04:43:30 PM
We's friends, Parrot and me.  No worries, everybody.

I read his explanatory comments at the DZ and all is good.

Go Vols.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on December 08, 2014, 09:24:29 PM
I tried to move the post made by 377 to the Tina Bar thread and it was deleted by mistake  :(

I was able to retrieve his post though, so I will post it again. Sorry about that 377 :-[



I've raised this hypothetical before but never seen Tom K's reaction to it. It's a nutty idea, but I cant find a reasonable explanation of how the money got to T Bar.

Say Brian's parents found the money and perhaps even Cooper's body somewhere else.  They know the bill serial numbers are recorded. They have to find some way to see if the found loot can be kept and whether it is spendable. They decide to run a test case and plant some at T Bar. They very subtly guide young Brian to "prepare" a campfire site right where they buried it. Brian "finds" the money. Turns out that NWA's insurer claims the money and it takes lawyers to get any portion for the Ingrams.

I wouldn't come up with such a far fetched idea if there were a more rational one that explained how the money got to T Bar.

I thought TK's presentation at the Portland Symposium was quite good. He suggests human intervention as a possible transport means. I don't think a Cooper plant makes sense so I ask who else would plant it? What are the chances a buried plant would ever be found? They are 100% if the planter guides the finder. They are TINY otherwise.

A currency debris field would shoot holes in my Ingram parents currency plant idea but I can find no solid evidence confirming that a debris field was really present.

Just a wildly speculative thought. I have no evidence to support it.

377
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on December 08, 2014, 09:25:16 PM
Welcome back 377 :). It's not that far fetched if you ask me. we seem to have multiple stories surrounding the money find. one report claims Brian was getting wood, or preparing the area for a campfire. other stories state he was playing with his cousin?, and she found the money? it just plays right along with this whole confusing story of DB Cooper  ;D
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on December 08, 2014, 09:26:30 PM
Mark Bennett replied to 377. this post was lost too.

Here is what Mark's reply was:

You came to the right place!  Brian doesn't post, but he is registered here.  You can PM him!

You have a special kinship with Brian, anyway.  You bought one of his bills!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on December 08, 2014, 09:28:58 PM
The reply by Bruce was lost too.......

Here is his reply to 377...

I like it.

I don't embrace it as Absolute Truth, but I like it.


I should of "Merged the topic" rather than "split the topic" I thought I was only deleting one split version. my apology again  :-[
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on December 08, 2014, 09:35:41 PM
I have some answers for you at the Tina Bar thread 377......we can continue there   :D
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on December 11, 2014, 01:02:33 AM
This is getting tedious - we've be over this before to no avail - but He That Is saithe:

I'm just the messenger and hardly know a thing about DNA profiling or comparisons. I think they just want to verify the FBI's conclusions on a comparison, if they actually do a comparison, that is. Who knows? They might just File 13 the whole report.

I saw some posts a while back about Georger complaining about chain-of-evidence on Lyle's DNA submission. Maybe he thinks I'm going to substitute my own DNA for Lyle's and name myself as the hijacker. Anyone with a bit of common sense would realize that providing any profile that ISN'T Lyle's would be pretty damn dumb for us. Smile

No one really knows what criteria the FBI is using in their partial profile from the tie. The only thing the FBI has told me about it is that they cannot positively match someone's full profile to it. In other words, it won't match up a suspect to the tie. But...(from Agent Fred Gutt in Seattle)...it can ELIMINATE a suspect. I suppose if they get someone's DNA profile and they can't eliminate that suspect with the comparison, then they might take that suspect more seriously. Like I said though, what I know about DNA you could fit into Tom Thumb's hat.



Yours above is just plain stupid and uninformed.

If you don't comprehend what people are telling you how can you criticise it? The same way you do your socalled investigations, I guess, with a banana up your nose and your thumbs in your ears, and your head ... !



Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on December 15, 2014, 03:42:22 AM
An Update on the doings in Robb Heady World


Note: For those newbies who don't know who Robb Heady is, or have chosen NOT to read the Mountain News and other sites that have discussed the copycat angle of Norjak, Robb is a so-called copycat who successfully got to the ground with about $180K. He just didn't get away, though.

He is also the only copycat who has discussed his experiences with us, or at least me (Prince Bruce rules!) Robb also came to Ariel last year, and also spoke at the Tacoma symposium. In fact, I think he was the highlight of the show. Even better, he drove me to Ariel - and back to the B&B, so I was able to continue drinkin'......

***************************

Boy, did I get a surprising phone call this evening - one from Robb's ex wife!

Her name is Mary Stevenson, and she's writing a book about her life, including a piece on how she dated Robb before he went to Vietnam, and continued their relationship through that episode and the aftermath of the skyjacking. After Robb's incarceration they married, and the union lasted seven years.

Mary says that she had no inkling that Robb was gonna hijack an airplane, and she first heard about it when she called Robb's house later that day and got the news from Robb's sister.

She also says that she taught Robb how to meditate once he went to prison, which is how he survived prison and got out after eight years.

Unlike some folks at DBC sites, Mary says that she wrote her book in three days. She claims that a writing seminar with Tom Bird really opened her floodgates of insight, passion, and deliberation.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on December 17, 2014, 02:50:26 AM
well put - the miracles abound! One after the other. More miracles than Yehovah can keep track of. Thus we have Kabalah, the system of magic miracle numbers. Which miracle number would you assign Blev? Which miracle number would you assign Jo? How many numbers/lives does each of these mortals have left? Not to mention the price for using a number adding up over the years! Shadows and dust. The lives of vampira nos feratu! The cleansing fire of the Truth finally cleansing the truth from the lies -

BruceSmith

Dec 16, 2014, 11:34 PM
Post #56493 of 56493 (12 views)
Re: [RobertMBlevins] U.S. Forestry jump BASES. [In reply to]    Can't Post
Quote:
"...Cave Junction, Oregon, is a small town on Highway 199 in southern Oregon. It is a heavily-used route for travelers going from Highway 101 along the northern California coast and back to the Interstate 5 freeway at Grants Pass.

As it happens, I had a life-altering experience near that town which was frankly a miracle..."


The miracles are stackin' up, Bobby.

1. Getting in a pickle on your motorcycle in Cave Junction, OR, flying through the air and landing in a ditch, but no significant injuries.

2. Three days at sea - but within sight of land - paddling an inflatable kayak to the island off the coast of the Quinault area. Kayak deflates partially but you keep going....

3. Four weeks trapped in a tent in the northern Cascades, underneath a few feet of snow with only a dozen packets of hot cocoa powder to consume.

4. A couple days stranded in a lean-to in the environs of the William O Douglas Wilderness area, slipping down the slope endlessly because it was so wet and icy, but finally....

On the other hand, we have another poster here driving to Seattle from Colorado for a business conference but her hubby stops off at The Dalles to dig in the dirt for six hours, then he stops along the Columbia at a few locations, then Tina Bar, then the hills around Camas, WA, then the walkway at the Red Lion Inn, then to Seattle pointing out landmarks off the I-5.

Afterwards, they head down to Bend, Oregon on the way to Reno, stopping first at Sandy Point/Hills/River, OR. When they get back to Colorado they move to Alabama because the money was found at Tena Bar, but they know it's really Tina Bar, and the wife says that during the above trip her husband left her for a few hours one day and may have gone to Gresham, OR, where another Tina was located.

The Vortex is strong.
(This post was edited by BruceSmith on Dec 16, 2014, 11:36 PM)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on December 17, 2014, 02:56:00 AM
The above post was lifted from the DZ, where I was commenting on the latest pronouncements there....
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on December 17, 2014, 03:57:43 AM
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The above post was lifted from the DZ, where I was commenting on the latest pronouncements there....

Yes ... so?

Dont you think it a bit uncommon that Mr. Blevins is not just a hero-survivalist-miracle worker four times over if not more,  in addition to all of his other fantastic accomplishments?

He also claims to be an accomplished survivalist.  He also reads minds and motivations. Now he's apparently running the Cooper thread on Dropzone.com. What will his amazing accomplishments reveal next? 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on December 17, 2014, 04:36:26 PM
Possible NEW break for Cooper case -

The O'Bama administration has just announced it's intent to normalise relations with Cuba; since relations were suspended in 1961!

If Flo was right and Cooper was Latin and possibly Cuban, today's announcement could lead to cooperation with the Cuban government and the release of any information the Cuban government has regarding the DB Cooper hijacking in 1971?

 8)

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on December 17, 2014, 04:44:01 PM
It could also unleash a torrent of memories about JM WAVE from you-know-who, and the role Duane (no w, no y) played there. (and in Cuba??)

More importantly, I wonder if Arturo Fuentes and his sons will go back to Cuba and resume their cigar production.  Their efforts in the Dominican Republic with seeds brought from their tobacco plantations in Cuba made the best, non-Cuban cigars on the planet.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on December 18, 2014, 12:30:01 AM
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It could also unleash a torrent of memories about JM WAVE from you-know-who, and the role Duane (no w, no y) played there. (and in Cuba??)

More importantly, I wonder if Arturo Fuentes and his sons will go back to Cuba and resume their cigar production.  Their efforts in the Dominican Republic with seeds brought from their tobacco plantations in Cuba made the best, non-Cuban cigars on the planet.

I have no idea bout Arturo Fuentes. I stopped smoking cee-gars after a commander walked up to me in my twenties and said "XXXXer" what is that "XXXing" thing! Put my Swisher Sweets away for life. 

I think Flo's remark about him being Latin must be taken seriously. I think that is one of the most under-explorer areas of the case and I would love to know if that was perused at all and why so few have commented about it?

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on December 18, 2014, 01:54:42 AM
Georger, you gotta man - up and smoke a real stogie.

Yes, the Latin needs a closer examination.  I wonder if Flo and Tina ever discussed it.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Moriarty on December 18, 2014, 03:50:22 AM
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Georger, you gotta man - up and smoke a real stogie.

Yes, the Latin needs a closer examination.  I wonder if Flo and Tina ever discussed it.

Has anyone remotely even mentioned Cooper could've simply just had a tan? Apart from Flo's "Latin" comment has there been any other suggestions, gestures, phrasing, that would agree to the Latin aspect?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on December 18, 2014, 03:56:56 AM
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Georger, you gotta man - up and smoke a real stogie.

Yes, the Latin needs a closer examination.  I wonder if Flo and Tina ever discussed it.

Has anyone remotely even mentioned Cooper could've simply just had a tan? Apart from Flo's "Latin" comment has there been any other suggestions, gestures, phrasing, that would agree to the Latin aspect?

My guess is Flo's comment was based not just on complexion but mannerisms and affect.
It's as much subjective as anything but broken down can be quanitified.
 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Moriarty on December 18, 2014, 04:37:47 AM
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Georger, you gotta man - up and smoke a real stogie.

Yes, the Latin needs a closer examination.  I wonder if Flo and Tina ever discussed it.

Has anyone remotely even mentioned Cooper could've simply just had a tan? Apart from Flo's "Latin" comment has there been any other suggestions, gestures, phrasing, that would agree to the Latin aspect?



My guess is Flo's comment was based not just on complexion but mannerisms and affect.
It's as much subjective as anything but broken down can be quanitified.

It's a guess. A good one. Who knows? I think we discussed that Flo's background and also her sense of heightened threat could result in her picking up on subtleties others had missed but is it backed up by anyone else in direct connection with Cooper?

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: sailshaw on December 18, 2014, 09:54:20 AM
Georger:  You say "I think Flo's remark about him being Latin must be taken seriously. I think that is one of the most under-explorer areas of the case and I would love to know if that was perused at all and why so few have commented about it?"

I say "My number one suspect is Sheridan Peterson and I believe he has some Greek in him and not Cuban. He really had an olive complexion when he lived at my place for a month"

Bob Sailshaw
sailshaw00@gmail,com
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on December 18, 2014, 12:53:11 PM
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Georger, you gotta man - up and smoke a real stogie.

Yes, the Latin needs a closer examination.  I wonder if Flo and Tina ever discussed it.

Has anyone remotely even mentioned Cooper could've simply just had a tan? Apart from Flo's "Latin" comment has there been any other suggestions, gestures, phrasing, that would agree to the Latin aspect?

Yep. I think Mr. Blevins himself has alluded to the fact that Mr. Christiansen was sporting his November tan when he did the job.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on December 18, 2014, 01:05:11 PM
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Georger, you gotta man - up and smoke a real stogie.

Yes, the Latin needs a closer examination.  I wonder if Flo and Tina ever discussed it.

Has anyone remotely even mentioned Cooper could've simply just had a tan? Apart from Flo's "Latin" comment has there been any other suggestions, gestures, phrasing, that would agree to the Latin aspect?



My guess is Flo's comment was based not just on complexion but mannerisms and affect.
It's as much subjective as anything but broken down can be quanitified.

It's a guess. A good one. Who knows? I think we discussed that Flo's background and also her sense of heightened threat could result in her picking up on subtleties others had missed but is it backed up by anyone else in direct connection with Cooper?

That's a valid concern. Didn't Larry stress agree between the witnesses and olive complexion?
 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on December 18, 2014, 01:29:18 PM
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Georger, you gotta man - up and smoke a real stogie.

Yes, the Latin needs a closer examination.  I wonder if Flo and Tina ever discussed it.

Has anyone remotely even mentioned Cooper could've simply just had a tan? Apart from Flo's "Latin" comment has there been any other suggestions, gestures, phrasing, that would agree to the Latin aspect?

Yep. I think Mr. Blevins himself has alluded to the fact that Mr. Christiansen was sporting his November tan when he did the job.

Ok, big question!

Moriarty, you have mentioned the suspect having a tan.  You have also mentioned Mitchell's comment about a toupee.  BOTH are Blevins Comments from DZ.  Then, Blevins posts on DZ that he likes the posts of that guy Morarty on this site.

Come clean....Do you know or are you Robert M. Blevins?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on December 18, 2014, 01:47:05 PM
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Georger, you gotta man - up and smoke a real stogie.

Yes, the Latin needs a closer examination.  I wonder if Flo and Tina ever discussed it.

Has anyone remotely even mentioned Cooper could've simply just had a tan? Apart from Flo's "Latin" comment has there been any other suggestions, gestures, phrasing, that would agree to the Latin aspect?

Yep. I think Mr. Blevins himself has alluded to the fact that Mr. Christiansen was sporting his November tan when he did the job.

Yes, of course. Except that a camel is not a rose!

Olive skin genetic and pale tanned Danish skin are NOT the same thing. Have you ever seen a tanned Greek, or Dane?  Quite obviously Mr. Blevins doesn't know the difference but he doesn't  mind throwing some mindless thing like this out there to see if it stick on somebody's wall!

Blevins will say anything to keep his game going -

Mr. Blevins is not a Dermatologist!  ;)
 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Moriarty on December 19, 2014, 12:11:09 AM
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Georger, you gotta man - up and smoke a real stogie.

Yes, the Latin needs a closer examination.  I wonder if Flo and Tina ever discussed it.

Has anyone remotely even mentioned Cooper could've simply just had a tan? Apart from Flo's "Latin" comment has there been any other suggestions, gestures, phrasing, that would agree to the Latin aspect?

Yep. I think Mr. Blevins himself has alluded to the fact that Mr. Christiansen was sporting his November tan when he did the job.

Ok, big question!

Moriarty, you have mentioned the suspect having a tan.  You have also mentioned Mitchell's comment about a toupee.  BOTH are Blevins Comments from DZ.  Then, Blevins posts on DZ that he likes the posts of that guy Morarty on this site.

Come clean....Do you know or are you Robert M. Blevins?

Haha, this will help you. Who the fuck is Robert M. Blevins?
Listen, I'm reviewing the facts of the case. I haven't and refuse to read any books on Cooper. People write books for money and for fame and if they say they're not, they immediately can't be trusted because they're dishonest. I have no interest in books even for reference unless they state their source to every fact they make and it better not be based upon the author's opinion. So some doofus says they're DB Cooper, so what? Anybody can, watch this ... I am DB Cooper. For $400 and four months I can train a parrot to say that but guess what, Polly ain't a skyjacker.

At no time, not once, would I say Dan Cooper had a toupee. Mitchell stated that Cooper's appearance was odd for an executive. He couldn't put his thumb on it but there was something collectively off. If Cooper had a toupee Mitchell would've seen it like a glaring  eyesore.

I do however use people here as the resource they are. I admit, I use them to filter out the shit, or to direct me to what I'm looking for, and from what I've seen here, there are a few very informed people with specialized skills, who's posts I respect.  I can tell you honestly as I amass data for myself that I haven't nor would I use DZ for at the simplest fact that it's to big, too vague, too many complete jackass opinions and an excessive amount of knee jerk reactions.

Anyone who posts their "theory" and I have a few too, before they can back it up gets instantly struck off my list as credible.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on December 19, 2014, 01:00:00 AM
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Georger, you gotta man - up and smoke a real stogie.

Yes, the Latin needs a closer examination.  I wonder if Flo and Tina ever discussed it.

Has anyone remotely even mentioned Cooper could've simply just had a tan? Apart from Flo's "Latin" comment has there been any other suggestions, gestures, phrasing, that would agree to the Latin aspect?

Yep. I think Mr. Blevins himself has alluded to the fact that Mr. Christiansen was sporting his November tan when he did the job.

Ok, big question!

Moriarty, you have mentioned the suspect having a tan.  You have also mentioned Mitchell's comment about a toupee.  BOTH are Blevins Comments from DZ.  Then, Blevins posts on DZ that he likes the posts of that guy Morarty on this site.

Come clean....Do you know or are you Robert M. Blevins?

Haha, this will help you. Who the fuck is Robert M. Blevins?
Listen, I'm reviewing the facts of the case. I haven't and refuse to read any books on Cooper. People write books for money and for fame and if they say they're not, they immediately can't be trusted because they're dishonest. I have no interest in books even for reference unless they state their source to every fact they make and it better not be based upon the author's opinion. So some doofus says they're DB Cooper, so what? Anybody can, watch this ... I am DB Cooper. For $400 and four months I can train a parrot to say that but guess what, Polly ain't a skyjacker.

At no time, not once, would I say Dan Cooper had a toupee. Mitchell stated that Cooper's appearance was odd for an executive. He couldn't put his thumb on it but there was something collectively off. If Cooper had a toupee Mitchell would've seen it like a glaring  eyesore.

I do however use people here as the resource they are. I admit, I use them to filter out the shit, or to direct me to what I'm looking for, and from what I've seen here, there are a few very informed people with specialized skills, who's posts I respect.  I can tell you honestly as I amass data for myself that I haven't nor would I use DZ for at the simplest fact that it's to big, too vague, too many complete jackass opinions and an excessive amount of knee jerk reactions.

Anyone who posts their "theory" and I have a few too, before they can back it up gets instantly struck off my list as credible.

You sound like a man with an area of interest ... or set of very basic questions you think are key?
Can you enlighten us?

Are you Marla ?   :) :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on December 19, 2014, 01:18:02 AM
Morey, I see that you refuse to read books on Coopers.

Can you tell us why you feel you have a diminished capacity for discernment?  What happens when you read a book that is inaccurate or untruthful and then realize it?  Most of us just close the cover, reach for the tequila and drink away.

And eventually reach for the next book.

My book on Cooper, currently in a major edit and re-write, and due out after the first of the year, is titled: DB Cooper and the FBI - A Case Study on the Investigation into America's only Unsolved Skyjacking.

Does that interest you?

In terms of Cooper, I empathize with your frustrations - the literature is pretty skimpy, and one has to look carefully for the gemstones hidden in poor writing, weak composition, or a lack of substantive facts.

Calame and Rhodes book on the McCoy-Cooper connection is stellar, but rough around the edges. But it has information in there- giving us a view into the workings of the FBI and the evidence retrieval at Reno that is exceptional.

Geoffrey's Skyjack- The Hunt for DB Cooper has fascinating detail on the early stages of the hijacking - how Tina and Flo responded, what they said, what Cooper did. He is the only one I know to get a comprehensive view of the feds' files, and it seems he stole a good bit of it, which is great because I've been able to steal a bit from him. So, I'm happy and grateful.

Wouldn't you want to see actual documents from the FBI files?  See how fucked up they are? If not, what would you like to see?

Please tell.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: andrade1812 on December 19, 2014, 05:07:30 PM
Not that anyone asked me, but you have to read the books by Tosaw (last time Tina opened up to a writer), Himmelsbach (though he didn't like what the ghost writer did in parts of it) and Gray (FBI access). None of these sources is perfect, but each gives a unique perspective to the case. Gray's book is footnoted, FYI.

I look forward to reading Smith's book, when it becomes available.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on December 19, 2014, 05:43:22 PM
Stayed tuned, amigo.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on December 19, 2014, 11:10:09 PM
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Not that anyone asked me, but you have to read the books by Tosaw (last time Tina opened up to a writer), Himmelsbach (though he didn't like what the ghost writer did in parts of it) and Gray (FBI access). None of these sources is perfect, but each gives a unique perspective to the case. Gray's book is footnoted, FYI.

I look forward to reading Smith's book, when it becomes available.

What is your opinion of Cooper, do you think he survived the jump and lived, or do you believe he is still out there waiting to be found if he didn't go into the water.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Moriarty on December 20, 2014, 01:18:54 AM
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Georger, you gotta man - up and smoke a real stogie.

Yes, the Latin needs a closer examination.  I wonder if Flo and Tina ever discussed it.




Has anyone remotely even mentioned Cooper could've simply just had a tan? Apart from Flo's "Latin" comment has there been any other suggestions, gestures, phrasing, that would agree to the Latin aspect?

Yep. I think Mr. Blevins himself has alluded to the fact that Mr. Christiansen was sporting his November tan when he did the job.

Ok, big question!

Moriarty, you have mentioned the suspect having a tan.  You have also mentioned Mitchell's comment about a toupee.  BOTH are Blevins Comments from DZ.  Then, Blevins posts on DZ that he likes the posts of that guy Morarty on this site.

Come clean....Do you know or are you Robert M. Blevins?

Haha, this will help you. Who the fuck is Robert M. Blevins?
Listen, I'm reviewing the facts of the case. I haven't and refuse to read any books on Cooper. People write books for money and for fame and if they say they're not, they immediately can't be trusted because they're dishonest. I have no interest in books even for reference unless they state their source to every fact they make and it better not be based upon the author's opinion. So some doofus says they're DB Cooper, so what? Anybody can, watch this ... I am DB Cooper. For $400 and four months I can train a parrot to say that but guess what, Polly ain't a skyjacker.

At no time, not once, would I say Dan Cooper had a toupee. Mitchell stated that Cooper's appearance was odd for an executive. He couldn't put his thumb on it but there was something collectively off. If Cooper had a toupee Mitchell would've seen it like a glaring  eyesore.

I do however use people here as the resource they are. I admit, I use them to filter out the shit, or to direct me to what I'm looking for, and from what I've seen here, there are a few very informed people with specialized skills, who's posts I respect.  I can tell you honestly as I amass data for myself that I haven't nor would I use DZ for at the simplest fact that it's to big, too vague, too many complete jackass opinions and an excessive amount of knee jerk reactions.

Anyone who posts their "theory" and I have a few too, before they can back it up gets instantly struck off my list as credible.

You sound like a man with an area of interest ... or set of very basic questions you think are key?
Can you enlighten us?

Are you Marla ?   :) :) :) :) :) :)

The number one question in this case is:
Why has no one identified Cooper? I believe I know the answer to that question.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Moriarty on December 20, 2014, 01:22:33 AM
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Not that anyone asked me, but you have to read the books by Tosaw (last time Tina opened up to a writer), Himmelsbach (though he didn't like what the ghost writer did in parts of it) and Gray (FBI access). None of these sources is perfect, but each gives a unique perspective to the case. Gray's book is footnoted, FYI.

I look forward to reading Smith's book, when it becomes available.

What is your opinion of Cooper, do you think he survived the jump and lived, or do you believe he is still out there waiting to be found if he didn't go into the water.

I believe Cooper pulled. I believed Cooper lived. I plan on finding what I believe.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on December 20, 2014, 01:38:58 AM
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Not that anyone asked me, but you have to read the books by Tosaw (last time Tina opened up to a writer), Himmelsbach (though he didn't like what the ghost writer did in parts of it) and Gray (FBI access). None of these sources is perfect, but each gives a unique perspective to the case. Gray's book is footnoted, FYI.

I look forward to reading Smith's book, when it becomes available.


What is your opinion of Cooper, do you think he survived the jump and lived, or do you believe he is still out there waiting to be found if he didn't go into the water.

I believe Cooper pulled. I believed Cooper lived. I plan on finding what I believe.

I am sure you believe what you believe, on any given day. Cooperland is full of believers. There are so few places left to go to hide.   :-*

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: andrade1812 on December 20, 2014, 09:11:57 PM
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Not that anyone asked me, but you have to read the books by Tosaw (last time Tina opened up to a writer), Himmelsbach (though he didn't like what the ghost writer did in parts of it) and Gray (FBI access). None of these sources is perfect, but each gives a unique perspective to the case. Gray's book is footnoted, FYI.

I look forward to reading Smith's book, when it becomes available.

What is your opinion of Cooper, do you think he survived the jump and lived, or do you believe he is still out there waiting to be found if he didn't go into the water.

I loathe having to make a stand one way or the other, but I believe he probably pulled. I do not think he was able to keep the money, in my opinion the rope snapped when his canopy deployed and the money went sailing away. Cooper probably returned to his life, lived a few more years and died sometime in the early 80's, before the national broadcasts of the updated Cooper sketch by Unsolved Mysteries. The big reason I believe this is the evidence on the tie, if Cooper was an engineer or manager working in a machine shop (or where ever he picked up the titanium particles) then, even if he had been recently laid off, he would have been missed by somebody. There are other reasons I believe Cooper lived, the lack of what I would consider a "95% probability" candidate among our missing persons suspects is among the strongest arguments in favor of Cooper surviving.

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on December 20, 2014, 09:20:15 PM
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Not that anyone asked me, but you have to read the books by Tosaw (last time Tina opened up to a writer), Himmelsbach (though he didn't like what the ghost writer did in parts of it) and Gray (FBI access). None of these sources is perfect, but each gives a unique perspective to the case. Gray's book is footnoted, FYI.

I look forward to reading Smith's book, when it becomes available.

What is your opinion of Cooper, do you think he survived the jump and lived, or do you believe he is still out there waiting to be found if he didn't go into the water.

I loathe having to make a stand one way or the other, but I believe he probably pulled. I do not think he was able to keep the money, in my opinion the rope snapped when his canopy deployed and the money went sailing away. Cooper probably returned to his life, lived a few more years and died sometime in the early 80's, before the national broadcasts of the updated Cooper sketch by Unsolved Mysteries. The big reason I believe this is the evidence on the tie, if Cooper was an engineer or manager working in a machine shop (or where ever he picked up the titanium particles) then, even if he had been recently laid off, he would have been missed by somebody. There are other reasons I believe Cooper lived, the lack of what I would consider a "95% probability" candidate among our missing persons suspects is among the strongest arguments in favor of Cooper surviving.

Well, it kinda still leaves the door open to many options. I think all of us have went back & forth about Cooper's fate. nobody can say for sure he was from the USA. he might not of had any family for unknown reasons. we can only speculate. If he did survive and lost the money. all of these known suspects can't be Cooper since they surround expenses with being Cooper. you would think he would of told his story to someone by now. most criminals have that problem.

Bruce, what caused Rob to do his hijacking, I don't remember at the moment?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on December 20, 2014, 09:23:20 PM
If not mistaken, I think the rope is the strongest points to the chute. I'm not so sure it would of snapped vs coming undone....
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: andrade1812 on December 20, 2014, 09:42:01 PM
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If not mistaken, I think the rope is the strongest points to the chute. I'm not so sure it would of snapped vs coming undone....

I don't know exactly how Cooper had the the money attached to himself via the rope, R99 mentioned the accepted version is Cooper tied it around his waist. In any case, in deployment the rope would have to handle taking a 10 kilo (or 9.5, doesn't make a lot of difference) sack from 120 mph to 30 mph (~90 mph difference) in a few seconds. That's a lot of strain on both rope and knot, about 5660 foot pounds of energy on the low end of the estimate.

As for whether Cooper pulled or not, well... if your life depends on pulling a thing, you pull that thing. That's a gross simplification, but it also matches the available evidence: no one has found anything but some money and a placard. If the money was going to be lost to the elements whether Cooper pulled or not, then it's hardly evidence that Cooper died.

[Because Cooper had no accent, he was either American or Canadian, and I've never seen any Canadian missing person being close to matching Cooper's. Plus, the FBI looked into missing persons and came up with nothing. The simplest explanation for why that is, is because there was no missing person.]

I'm not invested in any suspect or theory, and part of me prefers that Cooper died. You don't jump out of perfectly good airplanes.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on December 21, 2014, 12:42:01 AM
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If not mistaken, I think the rope is the strongest points to the chute. I'm not so sure it would of snapped vs coming undone....

I don't know exactly how Cooper had the the money attached to himself via the rope, R99 mentioned the accepted version is Cooper tied it around his waist. In any case, in deployment the rope would have to handle taking a 10 kilo (or 9.5, doesn't make a lot of difference) sack from 120 mph to 30 mph (~90 mph difference) in a few seconds. That's a lot of strain on both rope and knot, about 5660 foot pounds of energy on the low end of the estimate.

As for whether Cooper pulled or not, well... if your life depends on pulling a thing, you pull that thing. That's a gross simplification, but it also matches the available evidence: no one has found anything but some money and a placard. If the money was going to be lost to the elements whether Cooper pulled or not, then it's hardly evidence that Cooper died.

[Because Cooper had no accent, he was either American or Canadian, and I've never seen any Canadian missing person being close to matching Cooper's. Plus, the FBI looked into missing persons and came up with nothing. The simplest explanation for why that is, is because there was no missing person.]

I'm not invested in any suspect or theory, and part of me prefers that Cooper died. You don't jump out of perfectly good airplanes.

SA Schreuder and others have stated that the Portland office had a standing request with area hospitals and the coroner (including Vancouver) for at least two years, to be notified of any John Doe deceased turned up, and when the money was found at Tina Bar hospitals, the coroner, and others on the list went back and reviewed all of their records  to see if anything had been missed. Nothing of an unexplained nature turned up from these watches and reviews, according to these agents. (It's still possible Cooper could have been died and was missed by the system).

It is worth noting there were hobo encampments and people traveling in and out of these camps
on both sides of the river during this whole period. Very likely people in those encampments were missed in hospital and other census'.
 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on December 21, 2014, 04:52:17 PM
Robb says he was "really messed up" during that period of his life. 

But what was really going on in his head is up for speculation, in my view. When I pressed Robb on this point, he revealed that he had very strong feelings that the world was a rigged game - that the rich got richer by committing crimes and using the US military to feather their nests by suppressing uprisings of liberation, such as the Viet Cong. So Robb saw his hijacking as his attempt of "getting his."

But he kept his motivations and intentions very secret. His girlfriend, and then wife, Mary Stevenson contacted me recently and claimed that she had no inkling of Robb's plans, whatsoever.

She is writing a book about this episode in her life. She went on to see Robb through prison, taught him TM meditation - which was instrumental for enduring incarceration - and then married him after he was released. They divorced seven years later.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: FLYJACK on January 05, 2015, 11:53:21 PM
"I did stumble across the name of an engineer while researching the possible origin of those tie particles. He died in 1980, worked at Reynolds Aluminum in Longview, (not far from TBAR) and also worked at Kaiser Aluminum and Chemical in Portland. He was US military in Europe, from the midwest (Indiana) and 35 in 1971... He died alone at a remote public campground South of Tacoma and East of I5,, his name is a very close scramble of "Dan Cooper". He was a scuba and outdoorsman. No physical description yet, but it would be a helluva story if the Cooper money was still buried at that campsite.. "

Ticks many FBI boxes, so far..

Since this JUST caught my attention, it is far too early to call a "suspect" but the above profile is interesting,
name is Ron Conner, "Dan Cooper". I haven't really spent any time on this but while looking for a physical description I found a very poor internet scan. He died in the St. Helens explosion from the gas while at a campsite that still exists... I would like to find something to exclude him...

FWW,, I also have a foreign suspect that I have been trying to eliminate.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on January 06, 2015, 12:12:26 AM
Is this him?

Tacoma, WA
b. August 7, 1936 in Indiana (age 45) He was a port engineer for Kaiser Aluminum and Chemical Inc.


Thank you to Ronald's brother, Glenn, for the following information:
Ronald left a family of 4 daughters, Sherrill, Theresa, Patrica and Rosa.  His son, Ronald Jr. was killed in an auto accident in Magee, Mississippi.  He was survived by his mother and father Charles L and Bertha L Conner, Brothers Marvin and Leslie Conner all of Auburndale, Florida, two brothers from Muncie, Indiana, Glenn and Charles A Conner.  He was a native of Muncie, Indiana going to several schools there.  Ronald was a member of the US Army for eight years where he served in Germany, Italy, and in Korea during that conflict.  He married in Italy and along with his wife, Franca, moved to Washington state where he was employed with Reynolds Aluminum Co.  He enjoyed the outdoors, scuba diving and family.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: FLYJACK on January 06, 2015, 01:20:23 AM
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Is this him?


yup, I also found a useless image and the campsite location..  matches the FBI profile and some interesting coincidences, but he should be eliminated..

My understanding is the Amboy chute has been ruled out.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on January 06, 2015, 04:28:07 PM
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Is this him?


yup, I also found a useless image and the campsite location..  matches the FBI profile and some interesting coincidences, but he should be eliminated..

My understanding is the Amboy chute has been ruled out.


Yes, the Amboy chute was dismissed for several reasons. some don't believe them, but the chute wasn't Coopers, or Wallings.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on January 06, 2015, 05:06:13 PM
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Is this him?


yup, I also found a useless image and the campsite location..  matches the FBI profile and some interesting coincidences, but he should be eliminated..

My understanding is the Amboy chute has been ruled out.


Yes, the Amboy chute was dismissed for several reasons. some don't believe them, but the chute wasn't Coopers, or Wallings.

What happened to the genetics category? I was making a post and it vanished ...
will try later tonight... time wasted again! 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on January 06, 2015, 05:08:38 PM
what category vanished?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on January 06, 2015, 05:42:28 PM
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Is this him?


yup, I also found a useless image and the campsite location..  matches the FBI profile and some interesting coincidences, but he should be eliminated..

My understanding is the Amboy chute has been ruled out.


Yes, the Amboy chute was dismissed for several reasons. some don't believe them, but the chute wasn't Coopers, or Wallings.

Well, there's one that don't believe them.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: FLYJACK on January 07, 2015, 05:53:18 PM
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Is this him?

Tacoma, WA
b. August 7, 1936 in Indiana (age 45) He was a port engineer for Kaiser Aluminum and Chemical Inc.


Thank you to Ronald's brother, Glenn, for the following information:
Ronald left a family of 4 daughters, Sherrill, Theresa, Patrica and Rosa.  His son, Ronald Jr. was killed in an auto accident in Magee, Mississippi.  He was survived by his mother and father Charles L and Bertha L Conner, Brothers Marvin and Leslie Conner all of Auburndale, Florida, two brothers from Muncie, Indiana, Glenn and Charles A Conner.  He was a native of Muncie, Indiana going to several schools there.  Ronald was a member of the US Army for eight years where he served in Germany, Italy, and in Korea during that conflict.  He married in Italy and along with his wife, Franca, moved to Washington state where he was employed with Reynolds Aluminum Co.  He enjoyed the outdoors, scuba diving and family.

I found that Kaiser Aluminum and Chemical has a 1967 patent for the manufacture of an alloy using various forms of titanium.. including TiC

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3328127.pdf
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on January 14, 2015, 01:25:55 AM
The Duck of Truth says:

On the subject of Christiansen allegedly being 'too short' to be Cooper, I will again remind people of another case, the case of Gary Leon Ridgway, aka The Green River Killer.

The Green River Killer was seen by several witnesses during his twenty-plus year crime spree. One guy even followed him to his house and then went to the cops. Almost all the witnesses described him as between six feet and six feet three inches tall, weighing about 180 pounds. Composite sketches with this information were distributed in stores, public places, even on the walls of the Green River Task Force offices. Ridgway was brought to those offices at least once for questioning, and no one matched him to either the 'official' description or the police sketches.

When they finally arrested Ridgway based on the DNA evidence, it was discovered he was only five feet ten inches tall and weighed 155 pounds...

What does this prove? That witnesses under duress often make mistakes, and even the cops didn't make the connection when they had Ridgway right in front of them. Crazy The sketch of Cooper is not a photograph, and the 'official' description might not be completely accurate.


The Duck of Truth cites one case The Ridgeway case, which has no bearing on anything. Obviously The Duck has not heard of the Crawford-Oneal case which goes directly to witness reliability! A picture is worth 1,000,000 Duck quacks.

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on January 14, 2015, 11:29:39 PM
Still searching for the truth the Duck of Truth sayz: "For example, it might be easier to tell someone's true height if you saw them instead out in the open, or standing next to them at a bus stop. Or...at the luggage carousel. Inside a plane might be tougher than you think.
(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Jan 14, 2015, 2:40 PM)"

Isn't Tina standing next to Cooper like "or standing next to them at a bus stop" ?    Duhhh.

Apparently not all "standings next to" are equivalent under Blevins Conspiracy Symmetry!

So, it follows: Is Blevins as tall as Blevins?  Or only ony Tuesdays and Sunday afternoons when he thinks less and posts more?

 :-* :-* :-\ :-\ :-\

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on January 14, 2015, 11:50:10 PM
I'm going to call the FBI and see if I can get the following changed.

1) Cooper was between 4'9" & 6' 4"
2) Cooper was bald on top, but could of used Ron Popeil's spray on hair.
3) Cooper was between the ages of 29-60
4) Cooper worked in the airlines. probably a Purser.
5) Cooper was known to be the same height as Tina Mucklow (outside the aircraft)
6) Cooper weighed 130-190
7) Cooper had a light skin tone (outside the cabin)

This will be a one time deal. I can't keep sending them false information all the time. this will be sent in a PDF format. not all of the changes will be made public. I have a trust issue in Cooperville. you know how it is, right?  :P




Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on January 15, 2015, 12:10:42 AM
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I'm going to call the FBI and see if I can get the following changed.

1) Cooper was between 4'9" & 6' 4"
2) Cooper was bald on top, but could of used Ron Popeil's spray on hair.
3) Cooper was between the ages of 29-60
4) Cooper worked in the airlines. probably a Purser.
5) Cooper was known to be the same height as Tina Mucklow (outside the aircraft)
6) Cooper weighed 130-190
7) Cooper had a light skin tone (outside the cabin)

This will be a one time deal. I can't keep sending them false information all the time. this will be sent in a PDF format. not all of the changes will be made public. I have a trust issue in Cooperville. you know how it is, right?  :P

Good luck. Maybe we could get ESPN to arbitrate! ?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on January 15, 2015, 10:45:34 AM
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I'm going to call the FBI and see if I can get the following changed.

1) Cooper was between 4'9" & 6' 4"
2) Cooper was bald on top, but could of used Ron Popeil's spray on hair.
3) Cooper was between the ages of 29-60
4) Cooper worked in the airlines. probably a Purser.
5) Cooper was known to be the same height as Tina Mucklow (outside the aircraft)
6) Cooper weighed 130-190
7) Cooper had a light skin tone (outside the cabin)

This will be a one time deal. I can't keep sending them false information all the time. this will be sent in a PDF format. not all of the changes will be made public. I have a trust issue in Cooperville. you know how it is, right?  :P

Shutter,
You nailed this one when you posted a Larry Carr quote as your tag line.  Some people are just so sure that their guy is Cooper that any contradictory information has to be wrong and must be discounted some how.  You can't reason with these people or present any alternate argument.  They already "know" who Cooper is.

Robert has to discount what are pretty consistent descriptions between the two people (Flo and Tina) who had reason to take note of his description while still in his presence.  Discounting that description might be reasonable if there were other compelling evidence for Kenny, but........haven't we talked about this already? ;)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on January 15, 2015, 11:28:19 AM
You really can't use other crimes about descriptions with this case. several witnesses had a lot of time spent with Cooper. most crimes only last seconds to minutes. the witnesses don't get a lot of time for a description and you get mixed results. the passengers are a good example of this.

I'll use the FBI again as a source....



Here Agent Larry Carr discusses description.

"Folly of physical description." I don't recall who brought this up but I do recall the post. The work that has been conducted on eye witness identification has focused from the traditional aspect of violent crime. A fleeting encounter with a subject who is committing a crime that last less than a minute.

For example, a typical bank robbery (my area of focus) lasts 20 seconds or less. The robber approaches, passes his demand note to the teller, the teller reads, complies and the robber runs out of the bank.

In this situation the tellers get the description wrong most of the time. Not absolutely wrong, but wrong enough that sometimes I can't find on the video the person they described.

The Cooper case was nothing like this. Every person who had contact with Cooper described him consistently. The two individuals who had the most contact with him were separated for the flight, so they had little chance to get together and discuss Cooper. Schaffner got off the plane in Seattle, Mucklow in Reno, both were interviewed that night and gave consistent descriptions.

They described the situation as calm and Cooper as calm, quiet and polite. In fact, Tina described joking with Cooper towards the end of the flight and Schaffner described him as child like. In other words no trauma that would taint the description.
Modify message
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on January 15, 2015, 11:51:43 AM
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I'm going to call the FBI and see if I can get the following changed.

1) Cooper was between 4'9" & 6' 4"
2) Cooper was bald on top, but could of used Ron Popeil's spray on hair.
3) Cooper was between the ages of 29-60
4) Cooper worked in the airlines. probably a Purser.
5) Cooper was known to be the same height as Tina Mucklow (outside the aircraft)
6) Cooper weighed 130-190
7) Cooper had a light skin tone (outside the cabin)

This will be a one time deal. I can't keep sending them false information all the time. this will be sent in a PDF format. not all of the changes will be made public. I have a trust issue in Cooperville. you know how it is, right?  :P

Shutter,
You nailed this one when you posted a Larry Carr quote as your tag line.  Some people are just so sure that their guy is Cooper that any contradictory information has to be wrong and must be discounted some how.  You can't reason with these people or present any alternate argument.  They already "know" who Cooper is.

Robert has to discount what are pretty consistent descriptions between the two people (Flo and Tina) who had reason to take note of his description while still in his presence.  Discounting that description might be reasonable if there were other compelling evidence for Kenny, but........haven't we talked about this already? ;)

We have been over this so any times; it has become nauseating!

Blevins whole statement on this issue is falsehoods and propaganda. It's absurd on it's face! It's is so absurd there is no excuse for it other than as intentional propaganda seeking to sow doubt and disruption, in weak minds who know no better. He has been repeating this mantra of falsehoods since 8-2010 on a website run by skydivers who supposedly pride themselves in technical accuracy. Who can explain this contradiction in terms!?
Let's look at Blevins restatement of this B>S> from last night, quote:

"I wasn't 'claiming' anything. It was just a subjective experience I related from a flight I took on another 727The point was plain and simple. Boone looked taller than he really was. And I think being inside an airliner cabin had something to do with it. This is because once he was out in the open, it was easy to see he was shorter than I was. Not scientific, just a personal observation.

Maybe this is the reason even the stewardesses couldn't agree on how tall Cooper was exactly, and the same thing goes for the other witnesses. No matter how you cut the mustard, descriptions by witnesses on Cooper ran anywhere from 'No taller than five-nine' (Robert Gregory) 'Six feet, no shorter' (Flo Schaffner) 'Between five ten and six feet' (Tina Mucklow) So who is right?"

[1] Of course Bevins is claiming something! He is claiming all of the descriptions of Cooper were "all over the map (his words)" and so inconsistent and unreliable as to allow his candidate Christiansen who was 5feet 8inches to be seen as being taller - 6 feet or more! The FBI and others say the descriptions were quite consistent or even 'remarkably consistent'. So who is right? Blevins, the FBI, others... ?  Blevins claims is is right and everyone else is wrong on this point. 

[2] Blevins claims an actual instance as the basis of his argument, he himself experienced on an airplane. A person appeared to him taller inside an airplane than on the ground in the open. From this Blevins wants to alter physical optics seen by all humans inside airplanes! Again, Blevins' premise is that he saw what he claims he saw and is not lying or was not mistaken, and  his claimed experience is 'universal' and the standard by which everyone else should be judged , and that 'he' is the perfect detector and everyone else is an imperfect detector! Blevins is claiming he is the 'gold standard' against which everyone and everything else should be judged! And, he says all of this after just saying: "  It was just a subjective experience I had!  Blevins is contradicting himself!

[3] In #2 above Blevins has established a straw man - an unproved fallacy. Now Blevins does what Blevins always does, he uses his straw man fallacy and draws a sweeping untrue conclusion from that, namely: "Maybe this is the reason even the stewardesses couldn't agree on how tall Cooper was exactly, and the same thing goes for the other witnesses." Blevins' argument is plainly circular. He is assuming the truth of the proposition he is trying to prove!

The whole thing is a gimmick Blevins always employs, when the true facts do not support his claims.

Blevins has been engaging in his straw man fallacies since the day he appeared at Dropzone. I am convinced he literally doesn't know the difference! Blevins is just profoundly unscrupulous and deluded, and he doesn't know the difference. And time after time since 2010, when these problems with his thinking are pointed out, his habit is to turn tail and run saying: "I never said that!, and what he does is slink back to try another reformulation of what he has just said and he posts that also ... endlessly. And he will do it again because he is up against the wall and ran out of real options clear back about 2012!

It is now 2015! Maybe this whole charade is as simple as Blevins needing his eyes checked!

 :o   
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on January 15, 2015, 12:09:47 PM
It's pretty simple, when you constantly disagree with actual facts, or change them you are not going to get very far. the guy pleaded for people to check his story. what happened when this occurred? he turned on them.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on January 15, 2015, 12:17:16 PM
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It's pretty simple, when you constantly disagree with actual facts, or change them you are not going to get very far. the guy pleaded for people to check his story. what happened when this occurred? he turned on them.

If we followed Mr. Blevins prescriptions for reality, we would still be back in the Stone Age with a flat Earth and holding our tails in our hands addressing rocks and trees and clouds expecting an answer from the gods!   :-\  There is always some monkey who presumes to speak for THE TRUTH! That creature is usually LOST and in need to ASSISTANCE HIMSELF!! The idea that HE is going to lead anyone out of the wilderness IS PURE FICTION!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions = Georgia involved in JFK Assassination ! Really?
Post by: georger on January 15, 2015, 12:54:38 PM
There is one more idiotic thing I am going to address with the crazy woman Jo Weber making personal claims about me and others (Bruce Smith) bandying it around on the Dropzone Wacko Forum: that I was somehow involved in the JFK Assassination, Nov 22, 1963 ?  It is preposterous on it's face.

On Nov 22, 1963 I was 18 years old, a full time freshman student at a University on a scholarship enrolled in music and physics courses... I was living in a dormitory with a classmate from my home town, I was working as dish washer in the dorm dinning service at the evening meal, scheduled to move into a campus Fraternity, and I didn't even have a car!    :P

On the Thanksgiving weekend of Nov 22nd 1963, I went in for surgery on the evening of Nov 21st, was in surgery on Nov 22nd, and woke up from surgery and was released from the hospital the evening of Nov 22nd and taken back to my hometown 120 miles away, and I woke up about 10:00am the next morning and was helped to the bathroom where I took a shower, then went into my grandmother's front room where I collapsed under a blanket on the couch - someone switched the TV on and now I am becoming aware of what had happened in the world over the weekend . . . and the TV was on CBS news and now I am watching a lot of people gathered in some hallway in the basement of a police building, and they are bringing some guy through the hallway (some guy named Oswald?), and some guy darts out from the crowd and "POW!" shoots this "Oswald" in the gut .... and I muttered to the people in our living room ... "WTF is this!?" .....

That is where I was and how I spent the weekend of the JFK assassination in 1963, at the age of 18!

       :(



 

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on January 15, 2015, 12:59:59 PM
You sure your not the guy that was in the grassy knoll  :D ;D :o
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on January 15, 2015, 01:22:34 PM
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You sure your not the guy that was in the grassy knoll  :D ;D :o

The only grassy knoll I encountered that weekend was the grassy knoll on Sally!
 ;)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on January 15, 2015, 01:25:46 PM
Ah, yes, the old school grassy knoll  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 15, 2015, 04:13:14 PM
Georger, I thought you were the Man with the Black Umbrella. No?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: nmiwrecks on January 15, 2015, 05:11:00 PM
I agree.  The stewardesses' description is probably pretty accurate, except the age thing.  They got that part wrong  ;)  (see attached meme)
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Parrotheadvol on January 15, 2015, 06:40:13 PM
Well, the bottom line is that the FBI certainly don't seem to be open to the idea of KC being Cooper. Unless he has some bombshell that can change their mind, the new report will go in a file cabinet never to be retrieved. Anything short of putting KC on that plane, or a Cooper 20 just isn't going to convince them of anything. Contrary to what some believe, the FBI are not dummies.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on January 15, 2015, 06:54:08 PM
Robert, and Jo try there hardest to make you believe there stories. they don't want to hear anything that could throw a wrench into things. Jo is coming up on two decades of trying to make people believe. Robert is approaching a decade. that speaks volumes IMO.

I did nothing but show him the faults in his story. now I'm a hate monger, not to be trusted etc. that's there fuel to get people on there side. I haven't even read the report he posted a while back (last week or so?) his witnesses are extremely questionable to where it's not worth the hassle of researching.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 15, 2015, 08:25:07 PM
Parrot, you raise an interesting point: if the FBI are "not dummies," then what are they?  How would you characterize the Norjak investigation?

1.  Unlucky.
2. Solid, but need more resources.
3. Top-notch, but some crimes are just unsolvable.
4. Federal bureaucracies are like women: hard to manage, never on time, and rarely get the job done
5. Okay as cops, but they need more time
6. Sloppy at times, but basically decent.
7. Better than NCIS!
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on January 15, 2015, 08:29:43 PM
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Well, the bottom line is that the FBI certainly don't seem to be open to the idea of KC being Cooper. Unless he has some bombshell that can change their mind, the new report will go in a file cabinet never to be retrieved. Anything short of putting KC on that plane, or a Cooper 20 just isn't going to convince them of anything. Contrary to what some believe, the FBI are not dummies.

If a document is sent to the FBI, somebody has to read it.  You just never know what someone could send you.

Robert didn't post it for us to read, only a six page summary.  The six page summary was all speculation -- nothing that could even prompt the FBI to think about questioning someone.  It will take their time that could have been spent on other things and they'll hear from Robert again when he sends out his next "final" report.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Shutter on January 15, 2015, 09:21:14 PM
Quote
If a document is sent to the FBI, somebody has to read it.

Correct, they look at every lead that comes in. contrary to Blevins stating they might throw it in the garbage. it's tough on police departments when they ask for help. they get all kinds of calls, but have to check them..

Robert is starting to sound a lot like Marla's case with all this super memory going on. they got burned once on that. they won't let it happen again.
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on January 16, 2015, 12:56:55 AM
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Well, the bottom line is that the FBI certainly don't seem to be open to the idea of KC being Cooper. Unless he has some bombshell that can change their mind, the new report will go in a file cabinet never to be retrieved. Anything short of putting KC on that plane, or a Cooper 20 just isn't going to convince them of anything. Contrary to what some believe, the FBI are not dummies.

If a document is sent to the FBI, somebody has to read it.  You just never know what someone could send you.

Robert didn't post it for us to read, only a six page summary.  The six page summary was all speculation -- nothing that could even prompt the FBI to think about questioning someone.  It will take their time that could have been spent on other things and they'll hear from Robert again when he sends out his next "final" report.

In the past the FBI has prosecuted several people who knowingly provided false information in the Cooper case.

There must be a gray area where you can knowingly be a liar and a king sized idiot and a jerk and still not qualify as intentionally providing false information or interference with official cases . . .

 ??? 
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: Bruce A. Smith on January 16, 2015, 04:48:53 AM
Mr. Warren, you raise an interesting point: Can someone be wrong, stupid AND persistent, and still escape prosecution? When does being a royal pain in the ass and a time-wasting nuisance become a criminal action?

Hmmmmmmm.

Along those lines, do you think Earl Cossey should have been prosecuted for mucking up the Norjak investigation, lying to agents, submitting false testimony, etc??? NB-6 versus NB-8, owne the parachutes, DB Cooper chose an inferior parachute, etc...

How about Marla? She told the world what the FBI was doing and they called her uncle their most promising suspect. Can you be prosecuted for bamboozling the Bureau, if that is what in fact happened.

The flip side is that Marla was bamboozled by the FBI, so can the FBI be prosecuted for taking advantage of her and causing her to look the fool, ruin her reputation, cause anguish and emotional suffering to her and her family?

When does deceit and gamesmanship become a crime?
Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: MarkBennett on January 16, 2015, 08:57:48 AM
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In the past the FBI has prosecuted several people who knowingly provided false information in the Cooper case.

There must be a gray area where you can knowingly be a liar and a king sized idiot and a jerk and still not qualify as intentionally providing false information or interference with official cases . . .

 ???

"Remember:  It's not a lie, if you believe it." - George Costanza

Title: Re: Suspects And Confessions
Post by: georger on January 17, 2015, 04:24:03 PM
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In the past the FBI has prosecuted several people who knowingly provided false information in the Cooper case.

There must be a gray area where you can knowingly be a liar and a king sized idiot and a jerk and still not qualify as intentionally providing false information or interference with official cases . . .

 ???

"Remember:  It's not a lie, if you believe it." - George Costanza

Belief is usually skin deep. It takes a whole village to support belief.