Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 393556 times)

Offline Lynn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
  • Thanked: 51 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4200 on: August 05, 2019, 02:54:32 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Sheridan may have been in the FBI's crosshairs for some time. Remember that back in the 1960s he got busted by the feds in Mississippi for his civil rights work. Then, in Vietnam he got booted out by the US Ambassador to the RSVN. "Invited to leave the country" is how Petey stated it to me.

From what Sailshaw told me, the feds already knew a lot about Petey when they showed up at Sail's doorstep - his wife, Claire, the divorce, his relocation to Seattle.

Also, don't forget that the feds may have been investigating Sail, too. They may have cast a wide net over all employees at Boeing.
Agreed on all points, Bruce.

If you take Cooper's "grudge" as the full or partial motive for the crime ($200k is a good enough primary motive for anybody desperate and not rich) all trails really do seem to lead back to Boeing. The tie only helps solidify that theory.  Taking a few months off the Cooper case did help clarify that for me - sometimes you have to let the trees become the forest for a bit - it goes back to who was damaged by the crime? We know the grudge wasn't with NWO, who took the hit for the money (that damages any case for KC). And yeah, the feds were embarrassed by not being able to solve it, but no criminal wants to get caught, and the feds were already covered in egg from November 58, so "embarrassing the FBI" doesn't seem  a very realistic motive to me; "staying the hell out of prison" is any criminal's intention, but not their motive for the crime itself. Who'd risk their own life to embarrass a group that already had some hijack messes on their hands? Boeing looked negligent for not having forethought the Cooper vane and had to spend a fortune retrofitting 727s. I can't think of anyone else whose Cooper grudge would have been assuaged by this hijack.

Only other possibility is that the grudge was with someone whereby 200 grand would be needed to get even/advance a movement. So a political cause - but even there you have to really look for a "grudge". You can despise a political philosophy, party, or leader without necessarily having a grudge against them - in fact, fear of the future is just as likely a political motivator as anger about the past/present.

Funnily, it was Tina that originally brought up the grudge possibility - inadvertently handing investigators an important clue to Cooper that would not likely have come out otherwise. The clarity of her mind that night is still breathtaking.

All Tina did was ask him why he was doing this. Any response could have been anything. His response was entirely his. But he qualified his response by saying: "but not against your airlines" (plural). Did NWO have more than one airline?   
Genuinely doubt that plural had any meaning apart from that it was in the name of the airline. And Tina did introduce the topic of his having a problem with NWO. The  2nd Tina interview reads "[Tina] asked him why he picked Northwest Airlines to hijack [NOT "why he was doing this" generally] and he laughed and said, "It's not because I have a grudge against your airlines, it's just because I have a grudge." (And if he had a grudge against any OTHER airline, it would make more sense to hijack them, no?)  However, in the first, earlier interview, it says "In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, she related his statement to the effect that he had a "grudge" but not against Northwest Airlines, adding that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time."

So in the original no exact quote is given; the later interview gives a quote but there's no way to be sure (1) how well anyone would have remembered exactly how he phrased it and whether a plural was used or not, (2) whether he was just repeating "airlines" after Tina mentioned the full company name, or (3) whether the transcriber reported it exactly. Either way, it seems perfectly clear he had no "airline" grudge at all; it was a right place, right time plane, that's all, per Cooper.. Not gonna turn the stuff he did say upside down over a floating plural. Moreover, all American airlines that have "airline" or "airway" in their names take the plural. Only where the name is "Air" (ex Envoy Air) or "Jet" (Express Jet) does any airline NOT take the plural. The plural has next to no significance to the average person in this case.

Also, no, NWO did not appear have other airlines, though they did assist with the founding of Japan Airlines (JAL) in the 50s. Per Wiki: "During the regulated era, Northwest's domestic network was mainly along the northern transcontinental route through Chicago, Minneapolis and Seattle; New York and Detroit were added in 1945. Northwest also served Hawaii from the West Coast, and, starting in 1958-59, Georgia and Florida from Chicago.[21] On June 1, 1959 Northwest accepted its first turboprop, the L-188 Electra, from Lockheed. Northwest Airlines started flying the three-engine Boeing 727 in November 1964;[22] many stretched 727-251s followed." That's the only history given prior to 1971; no mention of flying under any other airline names that I can find.

At any rate, it's pretty clear Cooper did not have a grudge with NWO, and it would make zero sense to hijack NWO if he had a grudge with any other airline(s), therefore the "grudge vs airline" theory is out. This is one of the few Cooper scabs that can probably remain unpicked. For the love of all that does not suck, let's acknowledge that there are a few things established by those files, and one of them is that Cooper had no professed grudge with any airline, particularly and specifically NWO. Or what do we start questioning next? (Are we SURE he recognized Tacoma from the air? Are we SURE he didn't say Pamplona? Was he smoking Raleighs, or rollies?  :rofl:)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 04:12:20 AM by Lynn »
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1383
  • Thanked: 217 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4201 on: August 05, 2019, 01:52:48 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Sheridan may have been in the FBI's crosshairs for some time. Remember that back in the 1960s he got busted by the feds in Mississippi for his civil rights work. Then, in Vietnam he got booted out by the US Ambassador to the RSVN. "Invited to leave the country" is how Petey stated it to me.

From what Sailshaw told me, the feds already knew a lot about Petey when they showed up at Sail's doorstep - his wife, Claire, the divorce, his relocation to Seattle.

Also, don't forget that the feds may have been investigating Sail, too. They may have cast a wide net over all employees at Boeing.
Agreed on all points, Bruce.

If you take Cooper's "grudge" as the full or partial motive for the crime ($200k is a good enough primary motive for anybody desperate and not rich) all trails really do seem to lead back to Boeing. The tie only helps solidify that theory.  Taking a few months off the Cooper case did help clarify that for me - sometimes you have to let the trees become the forest for a bit - it goes back to who was damaged by the crime? We know the grudge wasn't with NWO, who took the hit for the money (that damages any case for KC). And yeah, the feds were embarrassed by not being able to solve it, but no criminal wants to get caught, and the feds were already covered in egg from November 58, so "embarrassing the FBI" doesn't seem  a very realistic motive to me; "staying the hell out of prison" is any criminal's intention, but not their motive for the crime itself. Who'd risk their own life to embarrass a group that already had some hijack messes on their hands? Boeing looked negligent for not having forethought the Cooper vane and had to spend a fortune retrofitting 727s. I can't think of anyone else whose Cooper grudge would have been assuaged by this hijack.

Only other possibility is that the grudge was with someone whereby 200 grand would be needed to get even/advance a movement. So a political cause - but even there you have to really look for a "grudge". You can despise a political philosophy, party, or leader without necessarily having a grudge against them - in fact, fear of the future is just as likely a political motivator as anger about the past/present.

Funnily, it was Tina that originally brought up the grudge possibility - inadvertently handing investigators an important clue to Cooper that would not likely have come out otherwise. The clarity of her mind that night is still breathtaking.

All Tina did was ask him why he was doing this. Any response could have been anything. His response was entirely his. But he qualified his response by saying: "but not against your airlines" (plural). Did NWO have more than one airline?   
Genuinely doubt that plural had any meaning apart from that it was in the name of the airline. And Tina did introduce the topic of his having a problem with NWO. The  2nd Tina interview reads "[Tina] asked him why he picked Northwest Airlines to hijack [NOT "why he was doing this" generally] and he laughed and said, "It's not because I have a grudge against your airlines, it's just because I have a grudge." (And if he had a grudge against any OTHER airline, it would make more sense to hijack them, no?)  However, in the first, earlier interview, it says "In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, she related his statement to the effect that he had a "grudge" but not against Northwest Airlines, adding that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time."

So in the original no exact quote is given; the later interview gives a quote but there's no way to be sure (1) how well anyone would have remembered exactly how he phrased it and whether a plural was used or not, (2) whether he was just repeating "airlines" after Tina mentioned the full company name, or (3) whether the transcriber reported it exactly. Either way, it seems perfectly clear he had no "airline" grudge at all; it was a right place, right time plane, that's all, per Cooper.. Not gonna turn the stuff he did say upside down over a floating plural. Moreover, all American airlines that have "airline" or "airway" in their names take the plural. Only where the name is "Air" (ex Envoy Air) or "Jet" (Express Jet) does any airline NOT take the plural. The plural has next to no significance to the average person in this case.

Also, no, NWO did not appear have other airlines, though they did assist with the founding of Japan Airlines (JAL) in the 50s. Per Wiki: "During the regulated era, Northwest's domestic network was mainly along the northern transcontinental route through Chicago, Minneapolis and Seattle; New York and Detroit were added in 1945. Northwest also served Hawaii from the West Coast, and, starting in 1958-59, Georgia and Florida from Chicago.[21] On June 1, 1959 Northwest accepted its first turboprop, the L-188 Electra, from Lockheed. Northwest Airlines started flying the three-engine Boeing 727 in November 1964;[22] many stretched 727-251s followed." That's the only history given prior to 1971; no mention of flying under any other airline names that I can find.

At any rate, it's pretty clear Cooper did not have a grudge with NWO, and it would make zero sense to hijack NWO if he had a grudge with any other airline(s), therefore the "grudge vs airline" theory is out. This is one of the few Cooper scabs that can probably remain unpicked. For the love of all that does not suck, let's acknowledge that there are a few things established by those files, and one of them is that Cooper had no professed grudge with any airline, particularly and specifically NWO. Or what do we start questioning next? (Are we SURE he recognized Tacoma from the air? Are we SURE he didn't say Pamplona? Was he smoking Raleighs, or rollies?  :rofl:)

wow - a whole dissertation!

"In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, she related his statement to the effect that he had a "grudge" but not against Northwest Airlines, adding that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time."

Sounds like somebody looking for a plane to hijack! Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time."     Could be anybody vs a Boeing employee.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 01:55:52 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 409
  • Thanked: 58 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4202 on: August 05, 2019, 02:30:41 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Sheridan may have been in the FBI's crosshairs for some time. Remember that back in the 1960s he got busted by the feds in Mississippi for his civil rights work. Then, in Vietnam he got booted out by the US Ambassador to the RSVN. "Invited to leave the country" is how Petey stated it to me.

From what Sailshaw told me, the feds already knew a lot about Petey when they showed up at Sail's doorstep - his wife, Claire, the divorce, his relocation to Seattle.

Also, don't forget that the feds may have been investigating Sail, too. They may have cast a wide net over all employees at Boeing.
Agreed on all points, Bruce.

If you take Cooper's "grudge" as the full or partial motive for the crime ($200k is a good enough primary motive for anybody desperate and not rich) all trails really do seem to lead back to Boeing. The tie only helps solidify that theory.  Taking a few months off the Cooper case did help clarify that for me - sometimes you have to let the trees become the forest for a bit - it goes back to who was damaged by the crime? We know the grudge wasn't with NWO, who took the hit for the money (that damages any case for KC). And yeah, the feds were embarrassed by not being able to solve it, but no criminal wants to get caught, and the feds were already covered in egg from November 58, so "embarrassing the FBI" doesn't seem  a very realistic motive to me; "staying the hell out of prison" is any criminal's intention, but not their motive for the crime itself. Who'd risk their own life to embarrass a group that already had some hijack messes on their hands? Boeing looked negligent for not having forethought the Cooper vane and had to spend a fortune retrofitting 727s. I can't think of anyone else whose Cooper grudge would have been assuaged by this hijack.

Only other possibility is that the grudge was with someone whereby 200 grand would be needed to get even/advance a movement. So a political cause - but even there you have to really look for a "grudge". You can despise a political philosophy, party, or leader without necessarily having a grudge against them - in fact, fear of the future is just as likely a political motivator as anger about the past/present.

Funnily, it was Tina that originally brought up the grudge possibility - inadvertently handing investigators an important clue to Cooper that would not likely have come out otherwise. The clarity of her mind that night is still breathtaking.

All Tina did was ask him why he was doing this. Any response could have been anything. His response was entirely his. But he qualified his response by saying: "but not against your airlines" (plural). Did NWO have more than one airline?   
Genuinely doubt that plural had any meaning apart from that it was in the name of the airline. And Tina did introduce the topic of his having a problem with NWO. The  2nd Tina interview reads "[Tina] asked him why he picked Northwest Airlines to hijack [NOT "why he was doing this" generally] and he laughed and said, "It's not because I have a grudge against your airlines, it's just because I have a grudge." (And if he had a grudge against any OTHER airline, it would make more sense to hijack them, no?)  However, in the first, earlier interview, it says "In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, she related his statement to the effect that he had a "grudge" but not against Northwest Airlines, adding that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time."

So in the original no exact quote is given; the later interview gives a quote but there's no way to be sure (1) how well anyone would have remembered exactly how he phrased it and whether a plural was used or not, (2) whether he was just repeating "airlines" after Tina mentioned the full company name, or (3) whether the transcriber reported it exactly. Either way, it seems perfectly clear he had no "airline" grudge at all; it was a right place, right time plane, that's all, per Cooper.. Not gonna turn the stuff he did say upside down over a floating plural. Moreover, all American airlines that have "airline" or "airway" in their names take the plural. Only where the name is "Air" (ex Envoy Air) or "Jet" (Express Jet) does any airline NOT take the plural. The plural has next to no significance to the average person in this case.

Also, no, NWO did not appear have other airlines, though they did assist with the founding of Japan Airlines (JAL) in the 50s. Per Wiki: "During the regulated era, Northwest's domestic network was mainly along the northern transcontinental route through Chicago, Minneapolis and Seattle; New York and Detroit were added in 1945. Northwest also served Hawaii from the West Coast, and, starting in 1958-59, Georgia and Florida from Chicago.[21] On June 1, 1959 Northwest accepted its first turboprop, the L-188 Electra, from Lockheed. Northwest Airlines started flying the three-engine Boeing 727 in November 1964;[22] many stretched 727-251s followed." That's the only history given prior to 1971; no mention of flying under any other airline names that I can find.

At any rate, it's pretty clear Cooper did not have a grudge with NWO, and it would make zero sense to hijack NWO if he had a grudge with any other airline(s), therefore the "grudge vs airline" theory is out. This is one of the few Cooper scabs that can probably remain unpicked. For the love of all that does not suck, let's acknowledge that there are a few things established by those files, and one of them is that Cooper had no professed grudge with any airline, particularly and specifically NWO. Or what do we start questioning next? (Are we SURE he recognized Tacoma from the air? Are we SURE he didn't say Pamplona? Was he smoking Raleighs, or rollies?  :rofl:)

wow - a whole dissertation!

"In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, she related his statement to the effect that he had a "grudge" but not against Northwest Airlines, adding that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time."

Sounds like somebody looking for a plane to hijack! Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time."     Could be anybody vs a Boeing employee.

Remember that he was specifically looking for a Boeing 727 aircraft.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 05:36:34 PM by Robert99 »
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1383
  • Thanked: 217 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4203 on: August 05, 2019, 03:35:58 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Sheridan may have been in the FBI's crosshairs for some time. Remember that back in the 1960s he got busted by the feds in Mississippi for his civil rights work. Then, in Vietnam he got booted out by the US Ambassador to the RSVN. "Invited to leave the country" is how Petey stated it to me.

From what Sailshaw told me, the feds already knew a lot about Petey when they showed up at Sail's doorstep - his wife, Claire, the divorce, his relocation to Seattle.

Also, don't forget that the feds may have been investigating Sail, too. They may have cast a wide net over all employees at Boeing.
Agreed on all points, Bruce.

If you take Cooper's "grudge" as the full or partial motive for the crime ($200k is a good enough primary motive for anybody desperate and not rich) all trails really do seem to lead back to Boeing. The tie only helps solidify that theory.  Taking a few months off the Cooper case did help clarify that for me - sometimes you have to let the trees become the forest for a bit - it goes back to who was damaged by the crime? We know the grudge wasn't with NWO, who took the hit for the money (that damages any case for KC). And yeah, the feds were embarrassed by not being able to solve it, but no criminal wants to get caught, and the feds were already covered in egg from November 58, so "embarrassing the FBI" doesn't seem  a very realistic motive to me; "staying the hell out of prison" is any criminal's intention, but not their motive for the crime itself. Who'd risk their own life to embarrass a group that already had some hijack messes on their hands? Boeing looked negligent for not having forethought the Cooper vane and had to spend a fortune retrofitting 727s. I can't think of anyone else whose Cooper grudge would have been assuaged by this hijack.

Only other possibility is that the grudge was with someone whereby 200 grand would be needed to get even/advance a movement. So a political cause - but even there you have to really look for a "grudge". You can despise a political philosophy, party, or leader without necessarily having a grudge against them - in fact, fear of the future is just as likely a political motivator as anger about the past/present.

Funnily, it was Tina that originally brought up the grudge possibility - inadvertently handing investigators an important clue to Cooper that would not likely have come out otherwise. The clarity of her mind that night is still breathtaking.

All Tina did was ask him why he was doing this. Any response could have been anything. His response was entirely his. But he qualified his response by saying: "but not against your airlines" (plural). Did NWO have more than one airline?   
Genuinely doubt that plural had any meaning apart from that it was in the name of the airline. And Tina did introduce the topic of his having a problem with NWO. The  2nd Tina interview reads "[Tina] asked him why he picked Northwest Airlines to hijack [NOT "why he was doing this" generally] and he laughed and said, "It's not because I have a grudge against your airlines, it's just because I have a grudge." (And if he had a grudge against any OTHER airline, it would make more sense to hijack them, no?)  However, in the first, earlier interview, it says "In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, she related his statement to the effect that he had a "grudge" but not against Northwest Airlines, adding that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time."

So in the original no exact quote is given; the later interview gives a quote but there's no way to be sure (1) how well anyone would have remembered exactly how he phrased it and whether a plural was used or not, (2) whether he was just repeating "airlines" after Tina mentioned the full company name, or (3) whether the transcriber reported it exactly. Either way, it seems perfectly clear he had no "airline" grudge at all; it was a right place, right time plane, that's all, per Cooper.. Not gonna turn the stuff he did say upside down over a floating plural. Moreover, all American airlines that have "airline" or "airway" in their names take the plural. Only where the name is "Air" (ex Envoy Air) or "Jet" (Express Jet) does any airline NOT take the plural. The plural has next to no significance to the average person in this case.

Also, no, NWO did not appear have other airlines, though they did assist with the founding of Japan Airlines (JAL) in the 50s. Per Wiki: "During the regulated era, Northwest's domestic network was mainly along the northern transcontinental route through Chicago, Minneapolis and Seattle; New York and Detroit were added in 1945. Northwest also served Hawaii from the West Coast, and, starting in 1958-59, Georgia and Florida from Chicago.[21] On June 1, 1959 Northwest accepted its first turboprop, the L-188 Electra, from Lockheed. Northwest Airlines started flying the three-engine Boeing 727 in November 1964;[22] many stretched 727-251s followed." That's the only history given prior to 1971; no mention of flying under any other airline names that I can find.

At any rate, it's pretty clear Cooper did not have a grudge with NWO, and it would make zero sense to hijack NWO if he had a grudge with any other airline(s), therefore the "grudge vs airline" theory is out. This is one of the few Cooper scabs that can probably remain unpicked. For the love of all that does not suck, let's acknowledge that there are a few things established by those files, and one of them is that Cooper had no professed grudge with any airline, particularly and specifically NWO. Or what do we start questioning next? (Are we SURE he recognized Tacoma from the air? Are we SURE he didn't say Pamplona? Was he smoking Raleighs, or rollies?  :rofl:)

wow - a whole dissertation!

"In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, she related his statement to the effect that he had a "grudge" but not against Northwest Airlines, adding that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time."

Sounds like somebody looking for a plane to hijack! Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time."     Could be anybody vs a Boeing employee.

Remember that was specifically looking for a Boeing 727 aircraft.

Yes everyone had forgot!  :congrats:
 

Offline Robert99

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 409
  • Thanked: 58 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4204 on: August 05, 2019, 05:37:14 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Sheridan may have been in the FBI's crosshairs for some time. Remember that back in the 1960s he got busted by the feds in Mississippi for his civil rights work. Then, in Vietnam he got booted out by the US Ambassador to the RSVN. "Invited to leave the country" is how Petey stated it to me.

From what Sailshaw told me, the feds already knew a lot about Petey when they showed up at Sail's doorstep - his wife, Claire, the divorce, his relocation to Seattle.

Also, don't forget that the feds may have been investigating Sail, too. They may have cast a wide net over all employees at Boeing.
Agreed on all points, Bruce.

If you take Cooper's "grudge" as the full or partial motive for the crime ($200k is a good enough primary motive for anybody desperate and not rich) all trails really do seem to lead back to Boeing. The tie only helps solidify that theory.  Taking a few months off the Cooper case did help clarify that for me - sometimes you have to let the trees become the forest for a bit - it goes back to who was damaged by the crime? We know the grudge wasn't with NWO, who took the hit for the money (that damages any case for KC). And yeah, the feds were embarrassed by not being able to solve it, but no criminal wants to get caught, and the feds were already covered in egg from November 58, so "embarrassing the FBI" doesn't seem  a very realistic motive to me; "staying the hell out of prison" is any criminal's intention, but not their motive for the crime itself. Who'd risk their own life to embarrass a group that already had some hijack messes on their hands? Boeing looked negligent for not having forethought the Cooper vane and had to spend a fortune retrofitting 727s. I can't think of anyone else whose Cooper grudge would have been assuaged by this hijack.

Only other possibility is that the grudge was with someone whereby 200 grand would be needed to get even/advance a movement. So a political cause - but even there you have to really look for a "grudge". You can despise a political philosophy, party, or leader without necessarily having a grudge against them - in fact, fear of the future is just as likely a political motivator as anger about the past/present.

Funnily, it was Tina that originally brought up the grudge possibility - inadvertently handing investigators an important clue to Cooper that would not likely have come out otherwise. The clarity of her mind that night is still breathtaking.

All Tina did was ask him why he was doing this. Any response could have been anything. His response was entirely his. But he qualified his response by saying: "but not against your airlines" (plural). Did NWO have more than one airline?   
Genuinely doubt that plural had any meaning apart from that it was in the name of the airline. And Tina did introduce the topic of his having a problem with NWO. The  2nd Tina interview reads "[Tina] asked him why he picked Northwest Airlines to hijack [NOT "why he was doing this" generally] and he laughed and said, "It's not because I have a grudge against your airlines, it's just because I have a grudge." (And if he had a grudge against any OTHER airline, it would make more sense to hijack them, no?)  However, in the first, earlier interview, it says "In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, she related his statement to the effect that he had a "grudge" but not against Northwest Airlines, adding that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time."

So in the original no exact quote is given; the later interview gives a quote but there's no way to be sure (1) how well anyone would have remembered exactly how he phrased it and whether a plural was used or not, (2) whether he was just repeating "airlines" after Tina mentioned the full company name, or (3) whether the transcriber reported it exactly. Either way, it seems perfectly clear he had no "airline" grudge at all; it was a right place, right time plane, that's all, per Cooper.. Not gonna turn the stuff he did say upside down over a floating plural. Moreover, all American airlines that have "airline" or "airway" in their names take the plural. Only where the name is "Air" (ex Envoy Air) or "Jet" (Express Jet) does any airline NOT take the plural. The plural has next to no significance to the average person in this case.

Also, no, NWO did not appear have other airlines, though they did assist with the founding of Japan Airlines (JAL) in the 50s. Per Wiki: "During the regulated era, Northwest's domestic network was mainly along the northern transcontinental route through Chicago, Minneapolis and Seattle; New York and Detroit were added in 1945. Northwest also served Hawaii from the West Coast, and, starting in 1958-59, Georgia and Florida from Chicago.[21] On June 1, 1959 Northwest accepted its first turboprop, the L-188 Electra, from Lockheed. Northwest Airlines started flying the three-engine Boeing 727 in November 1964;[22] many stretched 727-251s followed." That's the only history given prior to 1971; no mention of flying under any other airline names that I can find.

At any rate, it's pretty clear Cooper did not have a grudge with NWO, and it would make zero sense to hijack NWO if he had a grudge with any other airline(s), therefore the "grudge vs airline" theory is out. This is one of the few Cooper scabs that can probably remain unpicked. For the love of all that does not suck, let's acknowledge that there are a few things established by those files, and one of them is that Cooper had no professed grudge with any airline, particularly and specifically NWO. Or what do we start questioning next? (Are we SURE he recognized Tacoma from the air? Are we SURE he didn't say Pamplona? Was he smoking Raleighs, or rollies?  :rofl:)

wow - a whole dissertation!

"In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, she related his statement to the effect that he had a "grudge" but not against Northwest Airlines, adding that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time."

Sounds like somebody looking for a plane to hijack! Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time."     Could be anybody vs a Boeing employee.

Remember that was specifically looking for a Boeing 727 aircraft.

Yes everyone had forgot!  :congrats:

You obviously forgot it.
 
The following users thanked this post: Lynn

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1383
  • Thanked: 217 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4205 on: August 05, 2019, 11:38:37 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Sheridan may have been in the FBI's crosshairs for some time. Remember that back in the 1960s he got busted by the feds in Mississippi for his civil rights work. Then, in Vietnam he got booted out by the US Ambassador to the RSVN. "Invited to leave the country" is how Petey stated it to me.

From what Sailshaw told me, the feds already knew a lot about Petey when they showed up at Sail's doorstep - his wife, Claire, the divorce, his relocation to Seattle.

Also, don't forget that the feds may have been investigating Sail, too. They may have cast a wide net over all employees at Boeing.
Agreed on all points, Bruce.

If you take Cooper's "grudge" as the full or partial motive for the crime ($200k is a good enough primary motive for anybody desperate and not rich) all trails really do seem to lead back to Boeing. The tie only helps solidify that theory.  Taking a few months off the Cooper case did help clarify that for me - sometimes you have to let the trees become the forest for a bit - it goes back to who was damaged by the crime? We know the grudge wasn't with NWO, who took the hit for the money (that damages any case for KC). And yeah, the feds were embarrassed by not being able to solve it, but no criminal wants to get caught, and the feds were already covered in egg from November 58, so "embarrassing the FBI" doesn't seem  a very realistic motive to me; "staying the hell out of prison" is any criminal's intention, but not their motive for the crime itself. Who'd risk their own life to embarrass a group that already had some hijack messes on their hands? Boeing looked negligent for not having forethought the Cooper vane and had to spend a fortune retrofitting 727s. I can't think of anyone else whose Cooper grudge would have been assuaged by this hijack.

Only other possibility is that the grudge was with someone whereby 200 grand would be needed to get even/advance a movement. So a political cause - but even there you have to really look for a "grudge". You can despise a political philosophy, party, or leader without necessarily having a grudge against them - in fact, fear of the future is just as likely a political motivator as anger about the past/present.

Funnily, it was Tina that originally brought up the grudge possibility - inadvertently handing investigators an important clue to Cooper that would not likely have come out otherwise. The clarity of her mind that night is still breathtaking.

All Tina did was ask him why he was doing this. Any response could have been anything. His response was entirely his. But he qualified his response by saying: "but not against your airlines" (plural). Did NWO have more than one airline?   
Genuinely doubt that plural had any meaning apart from that it was in the name of the airline. And Tina did introduce the topic of his having a problem with NWO. The  2nd Tina interview reads "[Tina] asked him why he picked Northwest Airlines to hijack [NOT "why he was doing this" generally] and he laughed and said, "It's not because I have a grudge against your airlines, it's just because I have a grudge." (And if he had a grudge against any OTHER airline, it would make more sense to hijack them, no?)  However, in the first, earlier interview, it says "In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, she related his statement to the effect that he had a "grudge" but not against Northwest Airlines, adding that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time."

So in the original no exact quote is given; the later interview gives a quote but there's no way to be sure (1) how well anyone would have remembered exactly how he phrased it and whether a plural was used or not, (2) whether he was just repeating "airlines" after Tina mentioned the full company name, or (3) whether the transcriber reported it exactly. Either way, it seems perfectly clear he had no "airline" grudge at all; it was a right place, right time plane, that's all, per Cooper.. Not gonna turn the stuff he did say upside down over a floating plural. Moreover, all American airlines that have "airline" or "airway" in their names take the plural. Only where the name is "Air" (ex Envoy Air) or "Jet" (Express Jet) does any airline NOT take the plural. The plural has next to no significance to the average person in this case.

Also, no, NWO did not appear have other airlines, though they did assist with the founding of Japan Airlines (JAL) in the 50s. Per Wiki: "During the regulated era, Northwest's domestic network was mainly along the northern transcontinental route through Chicago, Minneapolis and Seattle; New York and Detroit were added in 1945. Northwest also served Hawaii from the West Coast, and, starting in 1958-59, Georgia and Florida from Chicago.[21] On June 1, 1959 Northwest accepted its first turboprop, the L-188 Electra, from Lockheed. Northwest Airlines started flying the three-engine Boeing 727 in November 1964;[22] many stretched 727-251s followed." That's the only history given prior to 1971; no mention of flying under any other airline names that I can find.

At any rate, it's pretty clear Cooper did not have a grudge with NWO, and it would make zero sense to hijack NWO if he had a grudge with any other airline(s), therefore the "grudge vs airline" theory is out. This is one of the few Cooper scabs that can probably remain unpicked. For the love of all that does not suck, let's acknowledge that there are a few things established by those files, and one of them is that Cooper had no professed grudge with any airline, particularly and specifically NWO. Or what do we start questioning next? (Are we SURE he recognized Tacoma from the air? Are we SURE he didn't say Pamplona? Was he smoking Raleighs, or rollies?  :rofl:)

wow - a whole dissertation!

"In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, she related his statement to the effect that he had a "grudge" but not against Northwest Airlines, adding that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time."

Sounds like somebody looking for a plane to hijack! Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time."     Could be anybody vs a Boeing employee.

Remember that was specifically looking for a Boeing 727 aircraft.

Yes everyone had forgot!  :congrats:

You obviously forgot it.

Huh?  :conspiracy: O0 O0 O0
 

Offline JimmyCalhoun1991

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Thanked: 6 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4206 on: August 06, 2019, 09:54:56 PM »
Hey Bruce, I'm from the PNW, born and raised in Washington (East of Bellingham near Mount Baker). As a quick note, I do believe that the glaciers on St. Helen's were melting in the months leading up to the eruption and causing many creeks and surrounding waterways to rise. This would have been happening around when Brian Ingrham made his discovery. It was a long shot and perhaps I'm mistaken altogether, but that seems to be something that I remember happening. I currently live in Oregon and attend school at Pacific U. I have lived all over the country, though.

Interesting info about the Boeing connection. I do believe that DB Cooper was affiliated. Thousands of employees were laid off first quarter 1970. Somewhere in the ballpark of five thousand, I believe. There was a famous billboard on I5 that read "Will the last person leaving Seattle Turn Off the Lights." Anyway, it's a safe bet that Cooper was affected by these layoffs.

I was working today on Sauvie Island near where the ransom bills were found (across the river). The ships moving through that channel are enormous and traffic is steady. I watched them for most of the day. I'd bet that somehow those bills came to the shore by the traffic in that part of the river. Dunno what it was in the mid 70s and 80s, but if it was anything like it was today, making huge waves, etc. it's very plausible that something got caught in one and pulled upstream or simply jostled around and deposited.

Just a hot take. Not my first time working near there, just struck me today more than it normally does.
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1383
  • Thanked: 217 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4207 on: August 06, 2019, 11:25:20 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Hey Bruce, I'm from the PNW, born and raised in Washington (East of Bellingham near Mount Baker). As a quick note, I do believe that the glaciers on St. Helen's were melting in the months leading up to the eruption and causing many creeks and surrounding waterways to rise. This would have been happening around when Brian Ingrham made his discovery. It was a long shot and perhaps I'm mistaken altogether, but that seems to be something that I remember happening. I currently live in Oregon and attend school at Pacific U. I have lived all over the country, though.

Interesting info about the Boeing connection. I do believe that DB Cooper was affiliated. Thousands of employees were laid off first quarter 1970. Somewhere in the ballpark of five thousand, I believe. There was a famous billboard on I5 that read "Will the last person leaving Seattle Turn Off the Lights." Anyway, it's a safe bet that Cooper was affected by these layoffs.

I was working today on Sauvie Island near where the ransom bills were found (across the river). The ships moving through that channel are enormous and traffic is steady. I watched them for most of the day. I'd bet that somehow those bills came to the shore by the traffic in that part of the river. Dunno what it was in the mid 70s and 80s, but if it was anything like it was today, making huge waves, etc. it's very plausible that something got caught in one and pulled upstream or simply jostled around and deposited.

Just a hot take. Not my first time working near there, just struck me today more than it normally does.

That wave action has hardly been discussed. Tom Kaye also thought the wave action might have something to with this -

Daily wave action would be a source of erosion.

 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1383
  • Thanked: 217 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4208 on: August 07, 2019, 02:45:51 PM »
The Key to suspect success!

1. If you build it, they will come.

2. "It is there if you know what to look for.." (Flyjack 8/7/19)   

3. It's the social media success that matters. The truth/damage is not relevant.

4. You are entitled to as many revisions as the public will tolerate.

5. Always have an escape plan.

6. Remember! You are "only searching for the truth". 
« Last Edit: August 07, 2019, 03:05:23 PM by georger »
 

Offline Darren

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • Thanked: 19 times
    • The Cooper Vortex
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4209 on: August 21, 2019, 01:26:12 PM »
Nat Loufoque is credited as the author of this book that theorizes E. Howard Hunt was the hijacker. I really enjoyed the book, and I'd like to speak to the author. However, the book appears self published and the only thing I can find with Nat Loufoque attached to it is a YouTube video promoting the book. From the about the author page "Mr Loufoque lives in the Shenandoah Valley, where he works in the IT industry. He does not believe in Bigfoot". The book is well researched and even cites work from Tom Colbert, Geoffrey Gray, and Bruce Smith.

Has anyone here talked to Mr. Loufoque? Read the book?

(Edit: I got an email address!)
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 02:20:42 PM by Darren »
The Cooper Vortex - A Podcast about DB Cooper - Available on most podcast apps
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1383
  • Thanked: 217 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4210 on: August 21, 2019, 11:16:27 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Nat Loufoque is credited as the author of this book that theorizes E. Howard Hunt was the hijacker. I really enjoyed the book, and I'd like to speak to the author. However, the book appears self published and the only thing I can find with Nat Loufoque attached to it is a YouTube video promoting the book. From the about the author page "Mr Loufoque lives in the Shenandoah Valley, where he works in the IT industry. He does not believe in Bigfoot". The book is well researched and even cites work from Tom Colbert, Geoffrey Gray, and Bruce Smith.

Has anyone here talked to Mr. Loufoque? Read the book?

(Edit: I got an email address!)

Hunt was 5'8-9". No turkey neck. No parachute experience. Very distinct jaw line with jowls. . . .
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 11:21:32 PM by georger »
 
The following users thanked this post: andrade1812

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3403
  • Thanked: 181 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4211 on: August 22, 2019, 02:23:55 AM »
Thanks for the heads' up Darren, on this Loufouque book. I always love seeing how my words are used by others. It can be startling and scary at times.
 

Offline andrade1812

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 469
  • Thanked: 59 times
    • My Website
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4212 on: August 30, 2019, 11:25:13 PM »
Hat tip Flyjack, the latest FOIA docs are out from the FBI, and nearly fifty pages deal with the investigation of RW Rackstraw, and the documents appear to put the Rackstraw theory to rest.

In addition to other problems previously noted with Rackstraw, the FBI documents show the FBI obtained fingerprints and palm prints from Rackstraw, and examination failed to match them to those taken from N467US.

A witness intimate with Rackstraw at this time (probably a roommate or girlfriend) said he was staying in San Jose, was rarely gone overnight, and that he was sporting a mustache when the hijacking took place.

Rackstraw did not appear to have any money after the hijacking, and in fact got a job at Radio Shack in early 1978

 
The following users thanked this post: MEYDC, Darren, georger

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1383
  • Thanked: 217 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4213 on: August 30, 2019, 11:37:09 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Hat tip Flyjack, the latest FOIA docs are out from the FBI, and nearly fifty pages deal with the investigation of RW Rackstraw, and the documents appear to put the Rackstraw theory to rest.

In addition to other problems previously noted with Rackstraw, the FBI documents show the FBI obtained fingerprints and palm prints from Rackstraw, and examination failed to match them to those taken from N467US.

A witness intimate with Rackstraw at this time (probably a roommate or girlfriend) said he was staying in San Jose, was rarely gone overnight, and that he was sporting a mustache when the hijacking took place.

Rackstraw did not appear to have any money after the hijacking, and in fact got a job at Radio Shack in early 1978

In addition to other problems previously noted with Rackstraw, the FBI documents show the FBI obtained fingerprints and palm prints from Rackstraw, and examination failed to match them to those taken from N467US.

Thats very interesting! So those taken from N467US. have some value afterall. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.   ;)  That should lay to rest the claims of some 'expurts'.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2019, 11:38:38 PM by georger »
 
The following users thanked this post: andrade1812

Offline 377

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1592
  • Thanked: 338 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4214 on: September 03, 2019, 02:02:26 PM »
Another thank you to Tom Colbert. His relentless pursuit of the FBI, forcing them to fulfill their FOIA obligations, has produced a lot of material we otherwise never would have seen.  Hats off to his lawyer Mark Zaid. I have some experience in FOIA litigation. Zaid makes me look like an amateur.

377
 
The following users thanked this post: andrade1812, Lynn, georger