Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 397743 times)

Offline Lynn

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4185 on: July 31, 2019, 11:43:02 PM »
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Flyjack posted this the other day...
If Whitney was too young and too short, that pretty much clears him for me, even if his alibi was shaky, providing the news story is accurate. I don't think Tina could have been wrong about the height, she saw Cooper for hours, and not just sitting. The age thing is relatively consistent per the main witnesses - Tina, Bill Mitchell, Flo (in that order; Flo's accounts had some inconsistencies, and the biggest takeaway from all accounts was that she was in shock. Tina was calmer and with Cooper longer; Bill wasn't hampered by stress, not knowing he was being hijacked.) Height and/or age were the main reasons why I never could take Rackstraw seriously, and McCoy and Dayton, though I did find them fascinating people in their own right. A LOT of the suspects were fascinating in their own right. In fact, the whole era was so skyjack-happy, it's kind of surprising there were no flights with competing hijackers.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 12:02:53 AM by Lynn »
 

Offline Lynn

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4186 on: August 01, 2019, 12:00:29 AM »
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As we go back and forth about who fingered whom, it is important to remember that Sheridan Peterson was a prime suspect from the early stages of the investigation. The FBI came to Sailshaw's house in early December 1971, I believe, to inquire about Petey - so their investigation into SP had begun well before then.
He was in the FBI files from early December 1971.

Anyone, for shits and giggles, ever make a chart of suspects vs key Cooper descriptors - from what the tie particles might indicate re career, to the broad physical/aural description, to comportment/education, to background in skydiving (he HAD to have dived before even if he wasn't an expert, otherwise he would have needed those instructions for the gear), known places travelled, grudges, etc? Petey lingers because the main strikes against him as Coooper are eye colour (per one shaken witness), what people think of his character, and such a splendidly broad alibi it really would be a shame not to have committed some kinda crime. ;) I never fully eliminated Gossett, mostly because I couldn't get a handle on how much his absence would have been noticed at that time (my, he's a fun suspect, though). KC, no way - his even appearing on lists is a comment on the power of hype. Weber - well, I don't know how he would have gotten the time off from manning the Starship Enterprise  and double-agenting for the CIA and KGB or whatever...
 
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Offline JimmyCalhoun1991

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4187 on: August 01, 2019, 08:29:46 AM »
I tend to believe that the commonly discussed suspects are wrong. I also think that wherever they found money that was stuck together as if it had been in a bag that deteriorated over time is likely near where you'd find whatever remains of a body after nearly 50 years in the mud of the Columbia.

One theory for Tena Bar is that Mt St Helens erupted just a few short months after money was found. Perhaps glacial melt from the mountain caused local waterways to rise which washed the evidence ashore. The rivers in the area rose considerably leading up to the 1980 eruption.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4188 on: August 01, 2019, 04:40:38 PM »
Glacial melt? Where are you Jimmy? You don't sound like you're from Cooper Country. Out here we talk about snow pack, and how it affects river flow. Glacial melt is something that happens very high up, especially on Mts. Rainier, Adams, Jeff, and Hood. It's a phenomenon for tourists to take pictures of, really.

Regardless, lots of dams control the flow. The Columbia has big ones, and the little rivers have smaller ones, such as the Merwin Dam on the Lewis, or my own Alder Dam system on the Nisqually. The lakes behind them make for great swimming.

But stream flow varies, for sure, and the Columbia has many highs and lows, which we have talked about intensely here. Welcome to the discussion, btw.

Lastly, "glacial melt" and the "retreat" of the glaciers on these mountains is perhaps the most obvious sign of global climate change. The loss of the Nisqually glacier on Mount Rainier is quite dramatic from its position in 1853 at first discovery by white folks to where it is now. The retreat is not only at least 5,000 feet back up the mountain, but the disappearance of ice-mass from the glacial valley is stunning. The dry-but-scarred slopes of the Nisqually basin extend several hundred feet up the sides of the ravine. That's a huge loss of ice, which is now in the ocean and contributing to sea-level rise. Along those lines, one of the reasons I moved to Cooper Country from New York was that the water in NY Harbor was already a foot higher when I left in 1990 than when I was first measured in 1860 by the Union Navy as they were building fortifications to protect the dockyards and ships from Confederate attacks. Further, in my 69 years I have seen dramatic increases in water levels and tide impacts upon NY area sea walls and jetties. High tides now come close to breaching the jetty rocks that were installed when I was a kid. That phenomenon is now ubiquitous, and the phrase "King Tide" is now part of our lexicon to describe the regular, prolonged low-land flooding from tide cycles and not storms.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 04:58:23 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 
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Offline Lynn

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4189 on: August 03, 2019, 02:30:10 PM »
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Flyjack posted this the other day...
If Whitney was too young and too short, that pretty much clears him for me, even if his alibi was shaky, providing the news story is accurate. I don't think Tina could have been wrong about the height, she saw Cooper for hours, and not just sitting. The age thing is relatively consistent per the main witnesses - Tina, Bill Mitchell, Flo (in that order; Flo's accounts had some inconsistencies, and the biggest takeaway from all accounts was that she was in shock. Tina was calmer and with Cooper longer; Bill wasn't hampered by stress, not knowing he was being hijacked.) Height and/or age were the main reasons why I never could take Rackstraw seriously, and McCoy and Dayton, though I did find them fascinating people in their own right. A LOT of the suspects were fascinating in their own right. In fact, the whole era was so skyjack-happy, it's kind of surprising there were no flights with competing hijackers.
Specifically, Sheridan's name was on the FBI desks by Dec. 2, 1971 - so within 8 days of the jump. Of course, if Linn wasn't the one who reported him, who did? Unlikely we'll find out - most likely a fellow jumper, I would think.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4190 on: August 03, 2019, 03:48:29 PM »
The bottom line here was the fact of putting Emerich into the line of fire without actually knowing if Peterson was who he was talking about. the word likely or possibly never entered the comment. it was directed more towards fact than assumption. who actually put Peterson in the crosshairs is unknown at this time.
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4191 on: August 04, 2019, 01:46:35 AM »
Sheridan may have been in the FBI's crosshairs for some time. Remember that back in the 1960s he got busted by the feds in Mississippi for his civil rights work. Then, in Vietnam he got booted out by the US Ambassador to the RSVN. "Invited to leave the country" is how Petey stated it to me.

From what Sailshaw told me, the feds already knew a lot about Petey when they showed up at Sail's doorstep - his wife, Claire, the divorce, his relocation to Seattle.

Also, don't forget that the feds may have been investigating Sail, too. They may have cast a wide net over all employees at Boeing.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 01:47:11 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 
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Offline Lynn

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4192 on: August 04, 2019, 03:34:00 PM »
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Sheridan may have been in the FBI's crosshairs for some time. Remember that back in the 1960s he got busted by the feds in Mississippi for his civil rights work. Then, in Vietnam he got booted out by the US Ambassador to the RSVN. "Invited to leave the country" is how Petey stated it to me.

From what Sailshaw told me, the feds already knew a lot about Petey when they showed up at Sail's doorstep - his wife, Claire, the divorce, his relocation to Seattle.

Also, don't forget that the feds may have been investigating Sail, too. They may have cast a wide net over all employees at Boeing.
Agreed on all points, Bruce.

If you take Cooper's "grudge" as the full or partial motive for the crime ($200k is a good enough primary motive for anybody desperate and not rich) all trails really do seem to lead back to Boeing. The tie only helps solidify that theory.  Taking a few months off the Cooper case did help clarify that for me - sometimes you have to let the trees become the forest for a bit - it goes back to who was damaged by the crime? We know the grudge wasn't with NWO, who took the hit for the money (that damages any case for KC). And yeah, the feds were embarrassed by not being able to solve it, but no criminal wants to get caught, and the feds were already covered in egg from November 58, so "embarrassing the FBI" doesn't seem  a very realistic motive to me; "staying the hell out of prison" is any criminal's intention, but not their motive for the crime itself. Who'd risk their own life to embarrass a group that already had some hijack messes on their hands? Boeing looked negligent for not having forethought the Cooper vane and had to spend a fortune retrofitting 727s. I can't think of anyone else whose Cooper grudge would have been assuaged by this hijack.

Only other possibility is that the grudge was with someone whereby 200 grand would be needed to get even/advance a movement. So a political cause - but even there you have to really look for a "grudge". You can despise a political philosophy, party, or leader without necessarily having a grudge against them - in fact, fear of the future is just as likely a political motivator as anger about the past/present.

Funnily, it was Tina that originally brought up the grudge possibility - inadvertently handing investigators an important clue to Cooper that would not likely have come out otherwise. The clarity of her mind that night is still breathtaking.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 03:34:40 PM by Lynn »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4193 on: August 04, 2019, 05:10:36 PM »
Tina's my gal!
 

Offline nickyb233

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4194 on: August 04, 2019, 09:49:26 PM »
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Sheridan may have been in the FBI's crosshairs for some time. Remember that back in the 1960s he got busted by the feds in Mississippi for his civil rights work. Then, in Vietnam he got booted out by the US Ambassador to the RSVN. "Invited to leave the country" is how Petey stated it to me.

From what Sailshaw told me, the feds already knew a lot about Petey when they showed up at Sail's doorstep - his wife, Claire, the divorce, his relocation to Seattle.

Also, don't forget that the feds may have been investigating Sail, too. They may have cast a wide net over all employees at Boeing.
Agreed on all points, Bruce.

If you take Cooper's "grudge" as the full or partial motive for the crime ($200k is a good enough primary motive for anybody desperate and not rich) all trails really do seem to lead back to Boeing. The tie only helps solidify that theory.  Taking a few months off the Cooper case did help clarify that for me - sometimes you have to let the trees become the forest for a bit - it goes back to who was damaged by the crime? We know the grudge wasn't with NWO, who took the hit for the money (that damages any case for KC). And yeah, the feds were embarrassed by not being able to solve it, but no criminal wants to get caught, and the feds were already covered in egg from November 58, so "embarrassing the FBI" doesn't seem  a very realistic motive to me; "staying the hell out of prison" is any criminal's intention, but not their motive for the crime itself. Who'd risk their own life to embarrass a group that already had some hijack messes on their hands? Boeing looked negligent for not having forethought the Cooper vane and had to spend a fortune retrofitting 727s. I can't think of anyone else whose Cooper grudge would have been assuaged by this hijack.

Only other possibility is that the grudge was with someone whereby 200 grand would be needed to get even/advance a movement. So a political cause - but even there you have to really look for a "grudge". You can despise a political philosophy, party, or leader without necessarily having a grudge against them - in fact, fear of the future is just as likely a political motivator as anger about the past/present.

Funnily, it was Tina that originally brought up the grudge possibility - inadvertently handing investigators an important clue to Cooper that would not likely have come out otherwise. The clarity of her mind that night is still breathtaking.

I agree all roads lead to BOEING.... The Mechanical Systems staff at Boeing Commercial Airplanes to be exact. Did you guys know do to the financial situation at the time all Boeing employees were off from turkey day until new years day, work didn't start back up until jan 2nd. So if cooper was a boeing employee he didn't have to be at work on monday and had some time for things to die down before work started again.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 09:50:41 PM by nickyb233 »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4195 on: August 04, 2019, 11:38:33 PM »
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Sheridan may have been in the FBI's crosshairs for some time. Remember that back in the 1960s he got busted by the feds in Mississippi for his civil rights work. Then, in Vietnam he got booted out by the US Ambassador to the RSVN. "Invited to leave the country" is how Petey stated it to me.

From what Sailshaw told me, the feds already knew a lot about Petey when they showed up at Sail's doorstep - his wife, Claire, the divorce, his relocation to Seattle.

Also, don't forget that the feds may have been investigating Sail, too. They may have cast a wide net over all employees at Boeing.
Agreed on all points, Bruce.

If you take Cooper's "grudge" as the full or partial motive for the crime ($200k is a good enough primary motive for anybody desperate and not rich) all trails really do seem to lead back to Boeing. The tie only helps solidify that theory.  Taking a few months off the Cooper case did help clarify that for me - sometimes you have to let the trees become the forest for a bit - it goes back to who was damaged by the crime? We know the grudge wasn't with NWO, who took the hit for the money (that damages any case for KC). And yeah, the feds were embarrassed by not being able to solve it, but no criminal wants to get caught, and the feds were already covered in egg from November 58, so "embarrassing the FBI" doesn't seem  a very realistic motive to me; "staying the hell out of prison" is any criminal's intention, but not their motive for the crime itself. Who'd risk their own life to embarrass a group that already had some hijack messes on their hands? Boeing looked negligent for not having forethought the Cooper vane and had to spend a fortune retrofitting 727s. I can't think of anyone else whose Cooper grudge would have been assuaged by this hijack.

Only other possibility is that the grudge was with someone whereby 200 grand would be needed to get even/advance a movement. So a political cause - but even there you have to really look for a "grudge". You can despise a political philosophy, party, or leader without necessarily having a grudge against them - in fact, fear of the future is just as likely a political motivator as anger about the past/present.

Funnily, it was Tina that originally brought up the grudge possibility - inadvertently handing investigators an important clue to Cooper that would not likely have come out otherwise. The clarity of her mind that night is still breathtaking.

I agree all roads lead to BOEING.... The Mechanical Systems staff at Boeing Commercial Airplanes to be exact. Did you guys know do to the financial situation at the time all Boeing employees were off from turkey day until new years day, work didn't start back up until jan 2nd. So if cooper was a boeing employee he didn't have to be at work on monday and had some time for things to die down before work started again.

Do you know offhand how many people Boeing laid off during the late 1960s and early 1970s?
 

Offline nickyb233

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4196 on: August 05, 2019, 12:21:48 AM »
I do and cooper was not one of the ones who got laid off he was too smart and invaluable to boeing for them to let him go but all of his coworkers getting laid off with the sst was a big part of his grudge. Guys put there bodies on the line welding hydraulic tubing for the sst and it was all for nothing.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4197 on: August 05, 2019, 12:22:03 AM »
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Sheridan may have been in the FBI's crosshairs for some time. Remember that back in the 1960s he got busted by the feds in Mississippi for his civil rights work. Then, in Vietnam he got booted out by the US Ambassador to the RSVN. "Invited to leave the country" is how Petey stated it to me.

From what Sailshaw told me, the feds already knew a lot about Petey when they showed up at Sail's doorstep - his wife, Claire, the divorce, his relocation to Seattle.

Also, don't forget that the feds may have been investigating Sail, too. They may have cast a wide net over all employees at Boeing.
Agreed on all points, Bruce.

If you take Cooper's "grudge" as the full or partial motive for the crime ($200k is a good enough primary motive for anybody desperate and not rich) all trails really do seem to lead back to Boeing. The tie only helps solidify that theory.  Taking a few months off the Cooper case did help clarify that for me - sometimes you have to let the trees become the forest for a bit - it goes back to who was damaged by the crime? We know the grudge wasn't with NWO, who took the hit for the money (that damages any case for KC). And yeah, the feds were embarrassed by not being able to solve it, but no criminal wants to get caught, and the feds were already covered in egg from November 58, so "embarrassing the FBI" doesn't seem  a very realistic motive to me; "staying the hell out of prison" is any criminal's intention, but not their motive for the crime itself. Who'd risk their own life to embarrass a group that already had some hijack messes on their hands? Boeing looked negligent for not having forethought the Cooper vane and had to spend a fortune retrofitting 727s. I can't think of anyone else whose Cooper grudge would have been assuaged by this hijack.

Only other possibility is that the grudge was with someone whereby 200 grand would be needed to get even/advance a movement. So a political cause - but even there you have to really look for a "grudge". You can despise a political philosophy, party, or leader without necessarily having a grudge against them - in fact, fear of the future is just as likely a political motivator as anger about the past/present.

Funnily, it was Tina that originally brought up the grudge possibility - inadvertently handing investigators an important clue to Cooper that would not likely have come out otherwise. The clarity of her mind that night is still breathtaking.

All Tina did was ask him why he was doing this. Any response could have been anything. His response was entirely his. But he qualified his response by saying: "but not against your airlines" (plural). Did NWO have more than one airline?   
 

Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4198 on: August 05, 2019, 12:23:39 AM »
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I do and cooper was not one of the ones who got laid off he was too smart and invaluable to boeing for them to let him go but all of his coworkers getting laid off with the sst was a big part of his grudge. Guys put there bodies on the line welding hydraulic tubing for the sst and it was all for nothing.

So you know who Cooper was, and you know he was not laid off - remarkable!
 
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Offline nickyb233

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4199 on: August 05, 2019, 12:27:41 AM »
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I do and cooper was not one of the ones who got laid off he was too smart and invaluable to boeing for them to let him go but all of his coworkers getting laid off with the sst was a big part of his grudge. Guys put there bodies on the line welding hydraulic tubing for the sst and it was all for nothing.

So you know who Cooper was, and you know he was not laid off - remarkable!

Indeed I do... thanks G!