Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 341901 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4080 on: December 15, 2018, 03:31:06 PM »
This whole issue with the initial sketch could have been brought up when Ckret was at DZ - but nobody thought it important, I guess.

The Cooper thing is such a ponderous affair, with so many players/motives full of endless speculation with accusations, fighting, and arguing ... the core issues are still the same.

You would think people could pick one problem and solve it then go on to the next, but that doesn't even seem possible! The Cooper case has become a platform for social mania!
« Last Edit: December 15, 2018, 03:52:30 PM by georger »
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4081 on: December 16, 2018, 02:07:20 AM »
Gray and Kaye contradict each other regarding Gregory.

Speaking at Smithsonian.com Gray says: :  “For instance, according to a passenger, Robert Gregory, he says Cooper had wavy, Marcelled hair,” Gray says. “And then the wavy hair is seconded by a stewardess. No sketch of Cooper has him with wavy hair—he has flat, kind of mousy hair. This guy Gregory, we know, was never interviewed [for] the FBI artist sketch...potentially decades of investigative time were spent not knowing that clue.

Kaye says on his website:  The first FBI composite sketch, also known as the "initial sketch" (figure 1), was produced by the Las Vegas Field Office. It shows Dan Cooper with classic marcelled hair and dark horn-rimmed glasses, as described by Northwest Orient passenger Robert B. Gregory. Gregory also characterized Cooper's hair as "Jet black, greasy, patent leather sheen. Combed straight back with a slight angle to the right and a slight part to the left." According to the 302's in the FBI Archive, Gregory remarked on Cooper's clothing as "Unusual colored suit coat, possibly a reddish brown or russet color; wide lapels. Shirt - neutral color. Tie - contrasting, medium to dark color."

Gray: Gregory was never interviewed. Was never interviewed.
Kaye: According to the 302's in the FBI Archive, Gregory remarked (to the FBI?) on Cooper's clothing ... Was interviewed.
Bruce Smith: has no position or information - still collating.

Gray and Kaye saw the exact same 302's during the same time period at Seattle! Who is right and who is wrong?

What if Kaye and Gray are both wrong and neither has the whole story!  :rofl:
« Last Edit: December 16, 2018, 02:15:22 AM by georger »
 

Offline Unsurelock

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4082 on: December 16, 2018, 02:26:30 AM »
Gray said he was never interviewed by the sketch artist.  He may have been interviewed by agents.  Who knows what information made its way into a sketch.

I think if we put in a FOIA request, the LV Bureau will possibly have info on who sent them that sketch.  Wherever it came from, we can put in a second request for information about the original, including the artist and witnesses.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4083 on: December 16, 2018, 11:13:59 AM »
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Not sure if it was published. I do recall reading in the FBI files that Mucklow and/or Schaffner said that the first sketch was "too good looking." Thus, the second, classic Cooper sketch was quickly released.

I believe the information came from the stews in reference to a suspect.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4084 on: December 16, 2018, 11:36:18 AM »
sounds like someone needs to contact Rose, the sketch artist and see if he can recall the first sketch. it's possible the FBI made the first one by information only and no witnesses present at the time. this could explain why they didn't like the first sketch.

I think Gregory was too confident of himself and used his background in paint to convince others he was right and the rest were wrong. nobody who actually knew why Cooper was there gave a description of his clothing as Gregory did. Tina sat next to him for hours and didn't claim any "reddish" coloring.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2018, 11:46:35 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline nickyb233

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4085 on: December 20, 2018, 01:15:36 PM »
If Cooper was indeed Canadian or had ties to canada (family, friends, coworkers, ect.) might this grudge go back even farther? The 2707 was cancelled in May 1971, and while that's probably more than enough time to plan a hijacking and extraction from a ground rendezvous point (Cooper appeared to have excellent knowledge of the locale from the air), the Canadian Avro Arrow was killed in part by US government pressure in 1959.

If Cooper was in his mid-40s/mid-50s, then he'd absolutely be old enough to have been a young engineer involved in some field affected by the cancellation of the Arrow, transplanted to the US to find a career in the industries built up around Boeing (where his knowledge of work on supersonic aircraft would have been invaluable), seen another project collapse due to government failure, and decided to have his revenge.

So, an experienced Canadian-American metallurgist with a military background and a grudge against the federal government? Sounds like that's a starting point for a good Dan Cooper candidate for me.

 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4086 on: January 27, 2019, 05:46:58 PM »
When did DB Cooper enter Flight 305?

I don't know. What I do know is that different folks say different stuff. Bill Mitchell told me that he and Cooper boarded the plane early in the process and he saw DBC put on his sunglasses on the tarmac because the sun has just come out.

Others, (GG, I believe) claim that DBC was last. Further, I've heard one report that Cooper was one of the first to board the plane and was turned around by Flo and asked to rejoin the passengers in the terminal.

All of my sources for these tidbits are a bit fuzzy at the moment, but as I re-comb my notes I make an effort to provide more data.

Also, this is the first time I'm hearing about a sketch done immediately at Sea-Tac and using Robert Gregory as the main eye-witness, and that this sketch was later in the possession of the Las Vegas FBI office. Weird.

Along those lines, I have searched hard to ascertain where Robert Gregory was actually sitting. The best that I can come up with is that HE didn't know where he was sitting and told conflicting stories to different agents at different times. I spoke with some of Gregory's descendants at the 2013 Tacoma conference, and they don't know where Uncle Bob was sitting either.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 05:47:35 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4087 on: April 17, 2019, 11:45:02 PM »
Anyone going to back this guy ,,, with a flight path through South Afrika? Only $2.99! That's right folks he's on sale as your next best prime DB Cooper suspect. GET HIM WHILE HEZ HOT!  He looks just like Cooper!
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4088 on: April 18, 2019, 02:17:07 AM »
Nope. Ears too big.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4089 on: April 19, 2019, 10:50:35 PM »
Richard McCoy revisited

I just saw the DB Cooper episode from the Travel Channel's new Mission Declassified series. They reveal LOTS of new information, and make a strong case for McCoy as Cooper. However, I disagree with their conclusion that McCoy was Cooper.

That said, at the top of the TC's list is that they have finally interviewed Bernie Rhodes, albeit via Skype. No one else has ever interviewed Bernie, and Bernie says definitively that McCoy was Cooper.

Plus, the TC folks have found the 302s that prove the wife's alibi - that McCoy was home for T-Day - was false. The TC people show the 302s on the gas receipt from Las Vegas and the collect call to Provo from Las Vegas on T-Day.

Secondly, the TC has court documents from 1991 that reveal the wife lied to the FBI about McCoy's skyjacking, and that she had prior knowledge. Not clear on what skyjacking, but this was new information to me.

Thirdly, they show a 302 that reveals that a man looking like DB Cooper paid a cabbie to drive him from Reno to Las Vegas on Thanksgiving Day, 1971. Whew. That was new to me, also.

Lastly, they have facial recognition confirmation from some private corporation that claims the sketch "A" of DB Cooper and the primary pix of McCoy have a 96% similarity, while another comparison with the "B" sketch with sunglasses and a secondary pix of McCoy is a 98% match. Impressive, even though Tina Mucklow and Bill Mitchell have said that McCoy is not Cooper.

Sadly, my contributions to this episode have been mostly cut, especially the nitty-gritty on the ground search and a possible Amboy landing, ie:  how one gets out of a tree after being snagged with a parachute. But they did use a ton o' stuff from the Mountain News, especially pix of suspects and confessees, for which they paid me $250. Much appreciated.

Doubly sad, the TC just informed me today that I will not be eligible to appear in any new DB Cooper shoots since I've already been in this one. "The Network," whatever that is, apparently wants no repeats.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 10:55:43 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4090 on: April 19, 2019, 11:33:45 PM »
Software match McCoy to a sketch. witnesses say no....it's logical to me. he was Cooper.....I think that's how it goes now?
 

Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4091 on: April 19, 2019, 11:39:28 PM »
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Software match McCoy to a sketch. witnesses say no....it's logical to me. he was Cooper.....I think that's how it goes now?

I wonder if these socalled 'facial rec. matches' are what they are being cracked up to be ? Are they reliable enough to make the call: shoot vs no shoot! ?   ;)
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4092 on: April 19, 2019, 11:43:45 PM »
Don't forget the overlays...facial recognition from Las Vegas (casino) pinned Weber.
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4093 on: April 19, 2019, 11:54:29 PM »
McCoy had plenty of time to eat Thanksgiving dinner and drive to Las Vegas in time to check into the hotel at 10pm. It's possible McCoy's wife didn't lie, and I saw nothing in that documentary that puts McCoy near the Pacific Northwest. The simple answer is he went to Las Vegas because he had a gambling habit... not because he planned on hijacking 305.
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4094 on: April 20, 2019, 02:25:08 AM »
I don't believe that McCoy was Cooper, but I do want to know more about McCoy's acivities in Las Vegas.

I think there is a third piece of evidence that links McCoy to Cooper - a gas receipt outside of Las Vegas from Tuesday, November 23rd.

Yes, McCoy could have been home in Provo eating turkey on November 25th and then driven down to Las Vegas. The five-hour drive time is suspect, though. McCoy had a VW bug. 400 miles, I think, is the distance between Provo and Las Vegas. Plus, there was construction on the main Interstates, so flying along at 80 mph was unlikely. For me, 400 miles translates to 8 hours of driving.

So, did McCoy make multiple round-trips to Las Vegas? Besides two possible trips during Thanksgiving week, he was also down there in the November 10-12th period. Again, gas receipts put him there at that time.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 02:28:23 AM by Bruce A. Smith »