Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 320474 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4080 on: December 15, 2018, 03:31:06 PM »
This whole issue with the initial sketch could have been brought up when Ckret was at DZ - but nobody thought it important, I guess.

The Cooper thing is such a ponderous affair, with so many players/motives full of endless speculation with accusations, fighting, and arguing ... the core issues are still the same.

You would think people could pick one problem and solve it then go on to the next, but that doesn't even seem possible! The Cooper case has become a platform for social mania!
« Last Edit: December 15, 2018, 03:52:30 PM by georger »
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4081 on: December 16, 2018, 02:07:20 AM »
Gray and Kaye contradict each other regarding Gregory.

Speaking at Smithsonian.com Gray says: :  “For instance, according to a passenger, Robert Gregory, he says Cooper had wavy, Marcelled hair,” Gray says. “And then the wavy hair is seconded by a stewardess. No sketch of Cooper has him with wavy hair—he has flat, kind of mousy hair. This guy Gregory, we know, was never interviewed [for] the FBI artist sketch...potentially decades of investigative time were spent not knowing that clue.

Kaye says on his website:  The first FBI composite sketch, also known as the "initial sketch" (figure 1), was produced by the Las Vegas Field Office. It shows Dan Cooper with classic marcelled hair and dark horn-rimmed glasses, as described by Northwest Orient passenger Robert B. Gregory. Gregory also characterized Cooper's hair as "Jet black, greasy, patent leather sheen. Combed straight back with a slight angle to the right and a slight part to the left." According to the 302's in the FBI Archive, Gregory remarked on Cooper's clothing as "Unusual colored suit coat, possibly a reddish brown or russet color; wide lapels. Shirt - neutral color. Tie - contrasting, medium to dark color."

Gray: Gregory was never interviewed. Was never interviewed.
Kaye: According to the 302's in the FBI Archive, Gregory remarked (to the FBI?) on Cooper's clothing ... Was interviewed.
Bruce Smith: has no position or information - still collating.

Gray and Kaye saw the exact same 302's during the same time period at Seattle! Who is right and who is wrong?

What if Kaye and Gray are both wrong and neither has the whole story!  :rofl:
« Last Edit: December 16, 2018, 02:15:22 AM by georger »
 

Offline Unsurelock

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4082 on: December 16, 2018, 02:26:30 AM »
Gray said he was never interviewed by the sketch artist.  He may have been interviewed by agents.  Who knows what information made its way into a sketch.

I think if we put in a FOIA request, the LV Bureau will possibly have info on who sent them that sketch.  Wherever it came from, we can put in a second request for information about the original, including the artist and witnesses.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4083 on: December 16, 2018, 11:13:59 AM »
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Not sure if it was published. I do recall reading in the FBI files that Mucklow and/or Schaffner said that the first sketch was "too good looking." Thus, the second, classic Cooper sketch was quickly released.

I believe the information came from the stews in reference to a suspect.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4084 on: December 16, 2018, 11:36:18 AM »
sounds like someone needs to contact Rose, the sketch artist and see if he can recall the first sketch. it's possible the FBI made the first one by information only and no witnesses present at the time. this could explain why they didn't like the first sketch.

I think Gregory was too confident of himself and used his background in paint to convince others he was right and the rest were wrong. nobody who actually knew why Cooper was there gave a description of his clothing as Gregory did. Tina sat next to him for hours and didn't claim any "reddish" coloring.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2018, 11:46:35 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline nickyb233

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4085 on: December 20, 2018, 01:15:36 PM »
If Cooper was indeed Canadian or had ties to canada (family, friends, coworkers, ect.) might this grudge go back even farther? The 2707 was cancelled in May 1971, and while that's probably more than enough time to plan a hijacking and extraction from a ground rendezvous point (Cooper appeared to have excellent knowledge of the locale from the air), the Canadian Avro Arrow was killed in part by US government pressure in 1959.

If Cooper was in his mid-40s/mid-50s, then he'd absolutely be old enough to have been a young engineer involved in some field affected by the cancellation of the Arrow, transplanted to the US to find a career in the industries built up around Boeing (where his knowledge of work on supersonic aircraft would have been invaluable), seen another project collapse due to government failure, and decided to have his revenge.

So, an experienced Canadian-American metallurgist with a military background and a grudge against the federal government? Sounds like that's a starting point for a good Dan Cooper candidate for me.

 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4086 on: January 27, 2019, 05:46:58 PM »
When did DB Cooper enter Flight 305?

I don't know. What I do know is that different folks say different stuff. Bill Mitchell told me that he and Cooper boarded the plane early in the process and he saw DBC put on his sunglasses on the tarmac because the sun has just come out.

Others, (GG, I believe) claim that DBC was last. Further, I've heard one report that Cooper was one of the first to board the plane and was turned around by Flo and asked to rejoin the passengers in the terminal.

All of my sources for these tidbits are a bit fuzzy at the moment, but as I re-comb my notes I make an effort to provide more data.

Also, this is the first time I'm hearing about a sketch done immediately at Sea-Tac and using Robert Gregory as the main eye-witness, and that this sketch was later in the possession of the Las Vegas FBI office. Weird.

Along those lines, I have searched hard to ascertain where Robert Gregory was actually sitting. The best that I can come up with is that HE didn't know where he was sitting and told conflicting stories to different agents at different times. I spoke with some of Gregory's descendants at the 2013 Tacoma conference, and they don't know where Uncle Bob was sitting either.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 05:47:35 PM by Bruce A. Smith »