Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 1303160 times)

FLYJACK

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3240 on: August 10, 2018, 04:36:54 PM »
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Something I found that I hadn't already posted,,,

Hahneman's hijacked plane landed in Merida Mexico for refuelling, then he demanded the plane fly over British Honduras (Belize) but he jumped in neighbouring Honduras. The 727 did a loop and landed back in Merida Mexico..

Of course Cooper's initial demand was the same, to fly to Mexico for refuelling.. that was re-negotioated due to configuration range..

So, Cooper's plan A may have been to jump at the end of the flight in Mexico/Central America, but his plan B became to jump where he did.

"The replacement craft--also a 727--was backed tail to tail with the hijacked plane. The hijacker, carrying his gun and encircled by stewardesses and other crew members to shield him from possible sharpshooting FBI agents, transferred his gear, including six parachutes he had demanded and received, from the one plane to the other. From New Orleans the plane flew south landing at Merida, Mexico, a city on the coast of the Gulf of Mexico. After refueling it continued south over Central America. After the hijacker jumped, the aircraft returned to Merida where the crew rested for several hours before flying to Miami."

Cooper apparently didn't know the fuel range of a 727, in the configuration he also demanded. Or it was all a diversion.

who knows, Mexico was in range but not in that configuration, were his calcs just sloppy.. he seemed to be very knowledgeable in some things but not others.. IMO, he was sincere in his initial Mexico demand.

Flyjack, back in the 1960s and 1970s, there was a joke that went something like this:  "Why do all the people in the world (especially Southeast Asia) hate us (meaning the USA) since we are so sincere."

Sure, but we don't know if he was sincere or not, we don't know what he was thinking. IMO, he probably was but I wouldn't claim it to be a fact or deny he wasn't. Remember, it was Cooper's first 727 jump hijacking..

So, I don't know where you are going with that..

The takeaway is the consistency of those two hijacked 727's "refuelling in Mexico" one actually happened and one was requested. Do we just reject that relationship? It is part of the knowledge base..

Actually, Cooper just wanted to go south.  He probably knew that the 727 could not make it from Seattle to Mexico with the landing gear down, flaps down, and cruising at less than 200 knots.  Mexico would have been about a 7 or 8 hour flight from Seattle with that configuration.

"probably knew" -  we just can't know that, is it possible, sure.. of course

If Cooper didn't know then he was to stupid to be hijacking airplanes.

Maybe he was, he couldn't operate the ventral stairs after being shown,, it is still an assumption though.. maybe the "jump" configuration request was a last minute thing or he changed his plan or he just made it up on the fly. Lots of reasons he could have got that wrong..

My overall impression of Cooper was that he was knowledgeable but not experienced..

Cooper was specifically looking for a 727 aircraft.  He checked with the ticket agent in Portland to confirm that the flight he bought a ticket for was an inbound 727.

yes, agree, he chose that plane specifically for the jump.. but that doesn't mean he didn't change or adapt his jump location..
 

Robert99

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3241 on: August 10, 2018, 04:48:27 PM »
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Something I found that I hadn't already posted,,,

Hahneman's hijacked plane landed in Merida Mexico for refuelling, then he demanded the plane fly over British Honduras (Belize) but he jumped in neighbouring Honduras. The 727 did a loop and landed back in Merida Mexico..

Of course Cooper's initial demand was the same, to fly to Mexico for refuelling.. that was re-negotioated due to configuration range..

So, Cooper's plan A may have been to jump at the end of the flight in Mexico/Central America, but his plan B became to jump where he did.

"The replacement craft--also a 727--was backed tail to tail with the hijacked plane. The hijacker, carrying his gun and encircled by stewardesses and other crew members to shield him from possible sharpshooting FBI agents, transferred his gear, including six parachutes he had demanded and received, from the one plane to the other. From New Orleans the plane flew south landing at Merida, Mexico, a city on the coast of the Gulf of Mexico. After refueling it continued south over Central America. After the hijacker jumped, the aircraft returned to Merida where the crew rested for several hours before flying to Miami."

Cooper apparently didn't know the fuel range of a 727, in the configuration he also demanded. Or it was all a diversion.

who knows, Mexico was in range but not in that configuration, were his calcs just sloppy.. he seemed to be very knowledgeable in some things but not others.. IMO, he was sincere in his initial Mexico demand.

Flyjack, back in the 1960s and 1970s, there was a joke that went something like this:  "Why do all the people in the world (especially Southeast Asia) hate us (meaning the USA) since we are so sincere."

Sure, but we don't know if he was sincere or not, we don't know what he was thinking. IMO, he probably was but I wouldn't claim it to be a fact or deny he wasn't. Remember, it was Cooper's first 727 jump hijacking..

So, I don't know where you are going with that..

The takeaway is the consistency of those two hijacked 727's "refuelling in Mexico" one actually happened and one was requested. Do we just reject that relationship? It is part of the knowledge base..

Actually, Cooper just wanted to go south.  He probably knew that the 727 could not make it from Seattle to Mexico with the landing gear down, flaps down, and cruising at less than 200 knots.  Mexico would have been about a 7 or 8 hour flight from Seattle with that configuration.

"probably knew" -  we just can't know that, is it possible, sure.. of course

If Cooper didn't know then he was to stupid to be hijacking airplanes.

Maybe he was, he couldn't operate the ventral stairs after being shown,, it is still an assumption though.. maybe the "jump" configuration request was a last minute thing or he changed his plan or he just made it up on the fly. Lots of reasons he could have got that wrong..

My overall impression of Cooper was that he was knowledgeable but not experienced..

Cooper was specifically looking for a 727 aircraft.  He checked with the ticket agent in Portland to confirm that the flight he bought a ticket for was an inbound 727.

yes, agree, he chose that plane specifically for the jump.. but that doesn't mean he didn't change or adapt his jump location..

Flyjack, using your logic, it doesn't even mean that Cooper hijacked the airliner in the first place.
 

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3242 on: August 10, 2018, 05:01:44 PM »
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Something I found that I hadn't already posted,,,

Hahneman's hijacked plane landed in Merida Mexico for refuelling, then he demanded the plane fly over British Honduras (Belize) but he jumped in neighbouring Honduras. The 727 did a loop and landed back in Merida Mexico..

Of course Cooper's initial demand was the same, to fly to Mexico for refuelling.. that was re-negotioated due to configuration range..

So, Cooper's plan A may have been to jump at the end of the flight in Mexico/Central America, but his plan B became to jump where he did.

"The replacement craft--also a 727--was backed tail to tail with the hijacked plane. The hijacker, carrying his gun and encircled by stewardesses and other crew members to shield him from possible sharpshooting FBI agents, transferred his gear, including six parachutes he had demanded and received, from the one plane to the other. From New Orleans the plane flew south landing at Merida, Mexico, a city on the coast of the Gulf of Mexico. After refueling it continued south over Central America. After the hijacker jumped, the aircraft returned to Merida where the crew rested for several hours before flying to Miami."

Cooper apparently didn't know the fuel range of a 727, in the configuration he also demanded. Or it was all a diversion.

who knows, Mexico was in range but not in that configuration, were his calcs just sloppy.. he seemed to be very knowledgeable in some things but not others.. IMO, he was sincere in his initial Mexico demand.

I feel like, if that demand had been sincere, he would have been much more specific.  Let's say his goal was to jump in Mexico, what would the plan be after that?  He wouldn't have been able to stash a vehicle, or prearranged an extraction, because he wouldn't have known where in Mexico he would be.
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3243 on: August 10, 2018, 05:11:03 PM »
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Something I found that I hadn't already posted,,,

Hahneman's hijacked plane landed in Merida Mexico for refuelling, then he demanded the plane fly over British Honduras (Belize) but he jumped in neighbouring Honduras. The 727 did a loop and landed back in Merida Mexico..

Of course Cooper's initial demand was the same, to fly to Mexico for refuelling.. that was re-negotioated due to configuration range..

So, Cooper's plan A may have been to jump at the end of the flight in Mexico/Central America, but his plan B became to jump where he did.

"The replacement craft--also a 727--was backed tail to tail with the hijacked plane. The hijacker, carrying his gun and encircled by stewardesses and other crew members to shield him from possible sharpshooting FBI agents, transferred his gear, including six parachutes he had demanded and received, from the one plane to the other. From New Orleans the plane flew south landing at Merida, Mexico, a city on the coast of the Gulf of Mexico. After refueling it continued south over Central America. After the hijacker jumped, the aircraft returned to Merida where the crew rested for several hours before flying to Miami."

Cooper apparently didn't know the fuel range of a 727, in the configuration he also demanded. Or it was all a diversion.

who knows, Mexico was in range but not in that configuration, were his calcs just sloppy.. he seemed to be very knowledgeable in some things but not others.. IMO, he was sincere in his initial Mexico demand.

I feel like, if that demand had been sincere, he would have been much more specific.  Let's say his goal was to jump in Mexico, what would the plan be after that?  He wouldn't have been able to stash a vehicle, or prearranged an extraction, because he wouldn't have known where in Mexico he would be.

Cooper's initial demand was to refuel in Mexico, the same one Hahneman had. After Hahneman's 727 refuelled in Mexico he demanded the plane fly over British Honduras at a speed and elevation, then he jumped over Honduras.

I don't see any inconsistency..

Cooper could have directed the plane after refuelling just like Hahneman did, but of course they renegotiated the destination due to lack of range in requested configuration. Cooper would have had to change his plan.. (if Mexico was his intended destination)
 
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FLYJACK

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3244 on: August 10, 2018, 05:39:16 PM »
"Your theory about the three packets of 100 bills individually banded in paper, and then collectively banded in rubber bands, makes perfect sense to me.  I just don't see how that links anything to Hahneman.  Also, if Hahneman was DB, and had to make the jump near TBar when he had planned to make the jump in Mexico, what did he do when he landed?"

Moved this here..

The money has nothing to do with Hahneman or any specific suspect.. there is no link.

I believe Cooper jumped near the FBI LZ not near TBAR, same if it was Hahneman. BTW, Hahneman walked 10 miles out of the jungle after landing in Honduras.


My leading theory (I have a few) is that the money bundle arrived at TBAR between 1974 and 1978, it was discarded by a person with no expectation of it being found.. possession of the money was a big liability but there is a lot to unravel there and it doesn't link to Hahneman,, it could be any suspect that survived the jump.


« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 05:46:43 PM by FLYJACK »
 
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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3245 on: August 10, 2018, 05:52:48 PM »
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Something I found that I hadn't already posted,,,

Hahneman's hijacked plane landed in Merida Mexico for refuelling, then he demanded the plane fly over British Honduras (Belize) but he jumped in neighbouring Honduras. The 727 did a loop and landed back in Merida Mexico..

Of course Cooper's initial demand was the same, to fly to Mexico for refuelling.. that was re-negotioated due to configuration range..

So, Cooper's plan A may have been to jump at the end of the flight in Mexico/Central America, but his plan B became to jump where he did.

"The replacement craft--also a 727--was backed tail to tail with the hijacked plane. The hijacker, carrying his gun and encircled by stewardesses and other crew members to shield him from possible sharpshooting FBI agents, transferred his gear, including six parachutes he had demanded and received, from the one plane to the other. From New Orleans the plane flew south landing at Merida, Mexico, a city on the coast of the Gulf of Mexico. After refueling it continued south over Central America. After the hijacker jumped, the aircraft returned to Merida where the crew rested for several hours before flying to Miami."

Cooper apparently didn't know the fuel range of a 727, in the configuration he also demanded. Or it was all a diversion.

who knows, Mexico was in range but not in that configuration, were his calcs just sloppy.. he seemed to be very knowledgeable in some things but not others.. IMO, he was sincere in his initial Mexico demand.

Flyjack, back in the 1960s and 1970s, there was a joke that went something like this:  "Why do all the people in the world (especially Southeast Asia) hate us (meaning the USA) since we are so sincere."

Sure, but we don't know if he was sincere or not, we don't know what he was thinking. IMO, he probably was but I wouldn't claim it to be a fact or deny he wasn't. Remember, it was Cooper's first 727 jump hijacking..

So, I don't know where you are going with that..

The takeaway is the consistency of those two hijacked 727's "refuelling in Mexico" one actually happened and one was requested. Do we just reject that relationship? It is part of the knowledge base..

Actually, Cooper just wanted to go south.  He probably knew that the 727 could not make it from Seattle to Mexico with the landing gear down, flaps down, and cruising at less than 200 knots.  Mexico would have been about a 7 or 8 hour flight from Seattle with that configuration.

I agree with this. I'm convinced it was a red herring thrown out there by Cooper to mislead the authorities into thinking that they would have a lot of time to apprehend Cooper. Moreover, I believe that Cooper originally intended to jump over the outskirts of Seattle.

I cannot accept that Cooper was arguably very knowledgeable about the 727 regarding obscure aspects, but simply an idiot about the jet's range. No way.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 
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FLYJACK

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3246 on: August 10, 2018, 06:58:55 PM »
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Something I found that I hadn't already posted,,,

Hahneman's hijacked plane landed in Merida Mexico for refuelling, then he demanded the plane fly over British Honduras (Belize) but he jumped in neighbouring Honduras. The 727 did a loop and landed back in Merida Mexico..

Of course Cooper's initial demand was the same, to fly to Mexico for refuelling.. that was re-negotioated due to configuration range..

So, Cooper's plan A may have been to jump at the end of the flight in Mexico/Central America, but his plan B became to jump where he did.

"The replacement craft--also a 727--was backed tail to tail with the hijacked plane. The hijacker, carrying his gun and encircled by stewardesses and other crew members to shield him from possible sharpshooting FBI agents, transferred his gear, including six parachutes he had demanded and received, from the one plane to the other. From New Orleans the plane flew south landing at Merida, Mexico, a city on the coast of the Gulf of Mexico. After refueling it continued south over Central America. After the hijacker jumped, the aircraft returned to Merida where the crew rested for several hours before flying to Miami."

Cooper apparently didn't know the fuel range of a 727, in the configuration he also demanded. Or it was all a diversion.

who knows, Mexico was in range but not in that configuration, were his calcs just sloppy.. he seemed to be very knowledgeable in some things but not others.. IMO, he was sincere in his initial Mexico demand.

Flyjack, back in the 1960s and 1970s, there was a joke that went something like this:  "Why do all the people in the world (especially Southeast Asia) hate us (meaning the USA) since we are so sincere."

Sure, but we don't know if he was sincere or not, we don't know what he was thinking. IMO, he probably was but I wouldn't claim it to be a fact or deny he wasn't. Remember, it was Cooper's first 727 jump hijacking..

So, I don't know where you are going with that..

The takeaway is the consistency of those two hijacked 727's "refuelling in Mexico" one actually happened and one was requested. Do we just reject that relationship? It is part of the knowledge base..

Actually, Cooper just wanted to go south.  He probably knew that the 727 could not make it from Seattle to Mexico with the landing gear down, flaps down, and cruising at less than 200 knots.  Mexico would have been about a 7 or 8 hour flight from Seattle with that configuration.

I agree with this. I'm convinced it was a red herring thrown out there by Cooper to mislead the authorities into thinking that they would have a lot of time to apprehend Cooper. Moreover, I believe that Cooper originally intended to jump over the outskirts of Seattle.

I cannot accept that Cooper was arguably very knowledgeable about the 727 regarding obscure aspects, but simply an idiot about the jet's range. No way.

I've always thought that Cooper wanted to jump immediately but also understand that you never know what goes on in somebody's head.. People can be be strange and irrational.. the Cooper Vortex is a good example. Cooper had unique 727 knowledge but also was incompetent and wrong on some things.. as though he was well read but inexperienced.  So, I can also entertain the arg that Cooper's initial intention may have been "refuelling in Mexico"... not good to outright reject on an assumption.
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3247 on: August 10, 2018, 07:48:50 PM »
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what do you want done with your account...I can see that you are still here active in the background?

If you delete my account does that delete all my posts?

It gives an option too. I don't hold anything against you and you should reconsider..it's up to you..


Unbelievable, this guy, FLYJACK, is argumentative and confrontational while crashing and burning before our very eyes.

Maybe it's you, FLYJACK, who doesn't allow open debate and critical thinking....you spew your theories, then belligerently attack anyone who disagrees with you.  Truth: you're an arrogant bully.  Try a new approach -- I thought they taught better manners in Canada -- they do in the Okanagan in BC, where I'm from.

Meyer

"crashing and burning" That is a joke...  I am just tired of personal attacks to defend poor thinking.. defend your dam conclusion with intellectual honesty.
 
I am 100% correct on this. My arg is neutral, you can't eliminate a suspect on an assumption. You need 100% proof to eliminate. Shutter's opinion is the extreme position and unproven. He has no arg to support it so he attacked my cred, he needs to prove why Hahneman is eliminated, he can't. It is an opinion without evidence to support a predetermined position. Shutter has trashed KC for years for being too short, so he can't accept Hahneman.. but Hahneman isn't 5' 8"... at least not while hijacking a 727. Passport info is just not accurate.


A reporter, eye witness account of the Hahneman hijacking..

"At 1:19, the captain’s voice again returned. “The colored- stewardess will be allowed to get off,” he said, “but only after all the other passengers have departed.” As passengers moved methodically toward the rear exit, carrying hand baggage, a sense of relief seemed evident in their quick strides. ......... I became so involved in trying to study him up close, but the sight of his gun turned my attention from him. The hijacker seemed middle-aged, about 5-feet 10-inches, black hair specked with traces of gray, a pointed nose and a dark complexion that seemed twice as menacing behind a pair of deeply tinted sunglasses."

BTW,,  I found something else some you of old time DZer's completely missed..

Al Lee described Tina as 5' 6", her FBI interview stated 5' 8"... so, either AL Lee is poor at height estimates ,Tina removed her shoes or she lies about her height. Research does show that height estimates are very poor..

Then I recalled...

Geoffrey Gray's book quote..

“I find Alice Hancock, the first class stew, living outside of Minneapolis. She answers the phone with a sweet voice, a cheerful personality. In retirement, she is studying Chinese. she remembers clear moments from the hijacking, how she attempted to lure young Tina away from the hijacker with playing cards, how copilot Bill Rataczak was freaking out in the cockpit and told her for some reason to remove her shoes."

SAY WHAT... I looked it up.. Emergency training procedure was to remove heels... in case of evacuation..

At that time almost all Stews wore heels, so did they remove their shoes? no idea.. but they were asked to.. and if they did Cooper would appear taller than he was..


Bottom line is, you can't eliminate Hahneman based on the info we have, maybe there is something we don't have that can.

If anybody actually has evidence that eliminates Hahneman let me know... So far, I haven't seen it..


I rest my case, you really are a bully.  Go away, like you have threatened to do.  What a jerk off!
 

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3248 on: August 10, 2018, 08:10:21 PM »
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Something I found that I hadn't already posted,,,

Hahneman's hijacked plane landed in Merida Mexico for refuelling, then he demanded the plane fly over British Honduras (Belize) but he jumped in neighbouring Honduras. The 727 did a loop and landed back in Merida Mexico..

Of course Cooper's initial demand was the same, to fly to Mexico for refuelling.. that was re-negotioated due to configuration range..

So, Cooper's plan A may have been to jump at the end of the flight in Mexico/Central America, but his plan B became to jump where he did.

"The replacement craft--also a 727--was backed tail to tail with the hijacked plane. The hijacker, carrying his gun and encircled by stewardesses and other crew members to shield him from possible sharpshooting FBI agents, transferred his gear, including six parachutes he had demanded and received, from the one plane to the other. From New Orleans the plane flew south landing at Merida, Mexico, a city on the coast of the Gulf of Mexico. After refueling it continued south over Central America. After the hijacker jumped, the aircraft returned to Merida where the crew rested for several hours before flying to Miami."

Cooper apparently didn't know the fuel range of a 727, in the configuration he also demanded. Or it was all a diversion.

who knows, Mexico was in range but not in that configuration, were his calcs just sloppy.. he seemed to be very knowledgeable in some things but not others.. IMO, he was sincere in his initial Mexico demand.

Flyjack, back in the 1960s and 1970s, there was a joke that went something like this:  "Why do all the people in the world (especially Southeast Asia) hate us (meaning the USA) since we are so sincere."

Sure, but we don't know if he was sincere or not, we don't know what he was thinking. IMO, he probably was but I wouldn't claim it to be a fact or deny he wasn't. Remember, it was Cooper's first 727 jump hijacking..

So, I don't know where you are going with that..

The takeaway is the consistency of those two hijacked 727's "refuelling in Mexico" one actually happened and one was requested. Do we just reject that relationship? It is part of the knowledge base..

Actually, Cooper just wanted to go south.  He probably knew that the 727 could not make it from Seattle to Mexico with the landing gear down, flaps down, and cruising at less than 200 knots.  Mexico would have been about a 7 or 8 hour flight from Seattle with that configuration.

I agree with this. I'm convinced it was a red herring thrown out there by Cooper to mislead the authorities into thinking that they would have a lot of time to apprehend Cooper. Moreover, I believe that Cooper originally intended to jump over the outskirts of Seattle.

I cannot accept that Cooper was arguably very knowledgeable about the 727 regarding obscure aspects, but simply an idiot about the jet's range. No way.

I've always thought that Cooper wanted to jump immediately but also understand that you never know what goes on in somebody's head.. People can be be strange and irrational.. the Cooper Vortex is a good example. Cooper had unique 727 knowledge but also was incompetent and wrong on some things.. as though he was well read but inexperienced.  So, I can also entertain the arg that Cooper's initial intention may have been "refuelling in Mexico"... not good to outright reject on an assumption.

Here's the problem with that logic; you don't get very far. In other words, you limit yourself to such a degree that progress is almost impossible.

When trying to solve a mystery conjecture and theory are useful if they're based in fact. They allow you to move ahead and try to determine what happened.

For example, it is reasonable to assume that Cooper didn't intend to actually fly to Mexico City. I base this assumption on two things. First, Cooper was on his way to Mexico City (via Reno). Two, he jumped before he got there.

This assumption enables me to avoid wasting time heading to Mexico City and trying to determine where he was going to go from there.

Another point, I've heard and read a fair amount about Cooper's incompetence and ignorance. All I know is this; he got away. Furthermore, he's the only guy ever to get away. I prefer to start with that in mind and consider him exceptionally bright until something to the contrary indicates otherwise.

More to the point, the fact that Cooper may not have known how to operate the airstairs is meaningless. After all, I know that the front entry door to an Airbus A321 opens and closes automatically. I know this because I've flown on one and seen it happen. That said, I would have to ask someone how to actually open or close the door if asked because I'm not certain which button to push or lever to pull. Nonetheless, I know the door is operable, and the fact that Cooper knew the airstairs were operable is the salient point.

Additionally, the fact that Cooper jumped with the inoperable "dummy reserve" verses the genuine reserve is also stated as "proof" that Cooper lacked knowledge. Well, not so fast...neither reserve could attach to either of the delivered mains (or emergency rig) because they both lacked "D rings." So my question is this: How does Cooper jumping with the "dummy reserve" instead of the genuine reserve indicate that he's ignorant? Perhaps, he had something else in mind when he jumped with the "dummy reserve" that made it's selection the superior choice?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 
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FLYJACK

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3249 on: August 10, 2018, 08:43:39 PM »
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Something I found that I hadn't already posted,,,

Hahneman's hijacked plane landed in Merida Mexico for refuelling, then he demanded the plane fly over British Honduras (Belize) but he jumped in neighbouring Honduras. The 727 did a loop and landed back in Merida Mexico..

Of course Cooper's initial demand was the same, to fly to Mexico for refuelling.. that was re-negotioated due to configuration range..

So, Cooper's plan A may have been to jump at the end of the flight in Mexico/Central America, but his plan B became to jump where he did.

"The replacement craft--also a 727--was backed tail to tail with the hijacked plane. The hijacker, carrying his gun and encircled by stewardesses and other crew members to shield him from possible sharpshooting FBI agents, transferred his gear, including six parachutes he had demanded and received, from the one plane to the other. From New Orleans the plane flew south landing at Merida, Mexico, a city on the coast of the Gulf of Mexico. After refueling it continued south over Central America. After the hijacker jumped, the aircraft returned to Merida where the crew rested for several hours before flying to Miami."

Cooper apparently didn't know the fuel range of a 727, in the configuration he also demanded. Or it was all a diversion.

who knows, Mexico was in range but not in that configuration, were his calcs just sloppy.. he seemed to be very knowledgeable in some things but not others.. IMO, he was sincere in his initial Mexico demand.

Flyjack, back in the 1960s and 1970s, there was a joke that went something like this:  "Why do all the people in the world (especially Southeast Asia) hate us (meaning the USA) since we are so sincere."

Sure, but we don't know if he was sincere or not, we don't know what he was thinking. IMO, he probably was but I wouldn't claim it to be a fact or deny he wasn't. Remember, it was Cooper's first 727 jump hijacking..

So, I don't know where you are going with that..

The takeaway is the consistency of those two hijacked 727's "refuelling in Mexico" one actually happened and one was requested. Do we just reject that relationship? It is part of the knowledge base..

Actually, Cooper just wanted to go south.  He probably knew that the 727 could not make it from Seattle to Mexico with the landing gear down, flaps down, and cruising at less than 200 knots.  Mexico would have been about a 7 or 8 hour flight from Seattle with that configuration.

I agree with this. I'm convinced it was a red herring thrown out there by Cooper to mislead the authorities into thinking that they would have a lot of time to apprehend Cooper. Moreover, I believe that Cooper originally intended to jump over the outskirts of Seattle.

I cannot accept that Cooper was arguably very knowledgeable about the 727 regarding obscure aspects, but simply an idiot about the jet's range. No way.

I've always thought that Cooper wanted to jump immediately but also understand that you never know what goes on in somebody's head.. People can be be strange and irrational.. the Cooper Vortex is a good example. Cooper had unique 727 knowledge but also was incompetent and wrong on some things.. as though he was well read but inexperienced.  So, I can also entertain the arg that Cooper's initial intention may have been "refuelling in Mexico"... not good to outright reject on an assumption.

Here's the problem with that logic; you don't get very far. In other words, you limit yourself to such a degree that progress is almost impossible.



It really cuts both ways, eliminating based on assumptions limits yourself as well.. assumptions are not facts, though not all assumptions are created equal. In a fresh case you choose the most "plausible" to investigate first but in an old case like this assumptions can be errors. The obvious has been investigated. The evidence suggests Cooper wanted to jump immediately but you can't reject his initial destination to refuel in Mexico. It is not wrong to entertain more than one scenario.. it is wrong to 100% reject one based on an assumption.

We all evaluate and weight the evidence we know through our own lens of experience, history and logic. Fact is, nobody knows what was in Cooper's mind and to assume you know then use that as evidence can be extremely limiting and error prone.

In this case, at this stage you need facts to 100% eliminate, not assumptions. Your bias should be to an open mind, not closed.

I don't reject the possibility Cooper died in the jump.. and we are all wasting our time.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 08:49:30 PM by FLYJACK »
 
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FLYJACK

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3250 on: October 03, 2018, 09:06:28 AM »
Good news, my FOIA has been accepted and advanced to the research stage..

I have found lots of info,, a few bits.

Geoffrey Gray book.. Cooper
“Tina will get the parachutes and meals. He also has Benzedrine pills in his pockets. He doesn’t want the crew to get sleepy."

Hahneman hijacking..
"Transmissions overheard on airport radio frequencies indicated the hijacker had asked for evening newspapers and five stimulant tablets."


Geoffrey Gray book.. Cooper
The fuel has not been pumped. What is taking the feds so long?
“Close the Shades,” he says.
She shutters each window, closing them like heavy eyelids.

Hahneman
"I think he has this thing pretty well figured out." Martin referred to the deft maneuvers by the hijacker and the specific requests he had made, some of them "couched in language indicating he knew how to fly the jetliner himself. ... Among other things, Martin cited the way the hijacker gave specific orders for flying at a particular altitude "and direction and when he "boarded the second plane, the first move was to pull down shades he could not be seen.
 
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FLYJACK

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3251 on: October 10, 2018, 06:44:01 PM »
FOIA update.. they have over 3000 pages.

I agreed to pay the estimated fee.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 06:51:29 PM by FLYJACK »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3252 on: October 10, 2018, 07:42:14 PM »
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FOIA update.. they have over 3000 pages.

I agreed to pay the estimated fee.

What does your request deal with?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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FLYJACK

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3253 on: October 13, 2018, 03:04:40 PM »
Going through the more recent FBI docs... a few things stood out.

Recordak model 600 rw was used by bank employee to image ransom money. It was rigged to image only the front and only half the bill.

The micro was submitted to Atlanta lab, returned to Seattle and then resubmitted to the lab. (It is now missing.)

There was a second set of micro's later submitted to the FBI with the remaining bills as the FBI was having difficulty deducting the 1500 bills that were remaining from the original micro of $230,000. That second set had $300,000 in it with a range of bills to deduct. Why now $300,000? Was the new emergency stash now $300,000 and it included the 1500 bills NOT given to Cooper. (My view is that since this entire process was controlled by bank employees at several points in time, it is not as reliable as believed)

The witnesses did not think the first Cooper sketch looked like the hijacker. The final sketch is very good. (Any suspect that relies on the first sketch is - invalidated.)

A stewardess (Flo?) did see the hijacker without glasses and described his eyes as accurate for the revised sketch.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 03:06:33 PM by FLYJACK »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3254 on: October 14, 2018, 12:56:26 AM »
You really need to put them in a PDF so others can read them once you have gone through them....
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 09:53:37 AM by Shutter »