Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 1304293 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3210 on: August 06, 2018, 08:41:32 PM »
I removed a whole bunch of posts that you reported, and I removed some from Georger..you want to leave, that's your decision..

If I want to eliminate someone for what ever reason that is my choice sir...Cooper could be 5' 10" without shoes, how do you know, or 5' 11 without shoes, how about 5' 10 1/2 with worn soles. new shoes, old shoes, several months old and wearing down?

 

Robert99

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3211 on: August 06, 2018, 10:50:45 PM »
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Quote
You are wrong,

Witnesses have Cooper's height from 5' 9" to 6' 1". That is a fact.

I'm not wrong..I go by the actual description given by the FBI, not by one witness...some gave height while never seeing him standing..the official height is 5' 10" - 6'

that's a tactic to get to 5' 8"

BULLSHIT.. it is not a tactic. That is your bias.

It was NOT one witness.

Mucklow 5' 10" - 6'
Schaffner 6'
Mitchell 5' 9" - 5' 10"
Spreckel 5' 10"
Labissoniere 5' 10"
Gregory 5' 9"


and without shoes, less 1-2" (to compare to Hahnaman's FBI passport number)

Mucklow 5' 8" - 10'
Schaffner 5" 10"
Mitchell 5' 7" - 5' 8"
Spreckel 5' 8"
Labissoniere 5' 8"
Gregory 5' 7"

Even the FBI's 5' 10" - 6' would be 5' 8" - 5' 10" without shoes. Consistent with Hahnaman's specs..

Flyjack, even the late Prince (the musician) didn't wear 2 inch heels.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3212 on: August 06, 2018, 11:17:04 PM »
again, the passengers didn't know who Cooper was until after the fact..Gregory didn't see him standing stating "maybe 5-9" also stated color of suit being "unusual" nobody else claimed this..do we change the color because Gregory said russet?

I noticed something today...a week ago someone backed into my truck..I went to get an estimate last Monday..I called today and they asked me who I spoke with at the shop..I told him I didn't have the name..he asked me what he looked like and I told him...when I got to the shop, I was way off on my description due to not really paying attention or needing to recall him. that's what I see with the passengers. 
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3213 on: August 07, 2018, 04:10:29 AM »
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Nobody measured Hahneman or Cooper in shoes...

they went by height and not with or without shoes...neither were barefoot I can assure you of that...the bottom line is the FBI put him at 5' 8"...you have to find actual proof it's wrong...perhaps doesn't do it...

yes, apparently the FBI did measure his height with shoes on..he has a record and the height is registered with mugshots, especially if you do prison time...

You have incorporated poor assumptions into your logic.. and jumped to a bogus conclusion. You are, of course entitled to it.

I'll make this real simple..

Cooper was wearing shoes..  witnesses claimed he was "about" 5' 10"

Hahneman was wearing shoes. witnesses claimed he was "perhaps" 5' 10"

A typical rounded/truncated passport height of 5' 8" plus shoes is "about" 5' 10"


When people get their height measured that is without shoes, the 5' 8" FBI number likely came from his passport (not his prison record) that doesn't include shoes and the passport is rounded/truncated, no fractions.

So, it is typical for a passport number to be 1-2 inches less than in shoes.


Both the witness statements for Hahneman at 5' 10" and a passport reading 5' 8" can be correct.. that is your error. Conflating the context, they are not incompatible when you acknowledge their context.

You assume that 5' 8" is his actual height in shoes. Both my passport and DL read 5' 8" but I am 5' 10 1/4"  in dress shoes.. I checked. The 5' 8" is rounded down and my shoes add 1.5"...

and I have searched for his prison record, it isn't there.

Well I'll be darned FLYJACK, I took you for a taller man.  I guess you just sound taller to me -- being a Canadian securities guy with all that confidence and assertiveness and such.  I'm 5'5", but when I don't slouch, I'm 6'2".  Poor posture ... but I'm working  on it -- I think it's curvature of the spine or some such thing.  I also stand taller when I see a real pretty girl walk by who makes my sticker peck out.  It's kinda like when I was born -- I was 14 lb 10 oz at birth, but after I got circumcised, I was 7 lb 7 oz.  Talk about foreskin!  They were able to make a purse out of that stuff!  And........I've also heard that if you want to circumcise a whale, send down four skin divers.  Don't know how I got from DB Cooper's height to foreskin....but there you go.

Meyer
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 04:11:46 AM by MeyerLouie »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3214 on: August 07, 2018, 11:49:48 AM »
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I removed a whole bunch of posts that you reported, and I removed some from Georger..you want to leave, that's your decision..

If I want to eliminate someone for what ever reason that is my choice sir...Cooper could be 5' 10" without shoes, how do you know, or 5' 11 without shoes, how about 5' 10 1/2 with worn soles. new shoes, old shoes, several months old and wearing down?

It is your choice, and it was your choice to ignore my cogent argument and again accuse me of a “tactic”. (others repeatedly falsely accuse me of writing a book to discredit me). It was your choice to threaten me when you misunderstood my comment.

You see, there is no honest intellectual debate here, you have a flawed argument, I pointed that out with facts and reason. You ignored it to maintain your predetermined conclusion…  that isn’t how you advance ideas through critical thinking. That is how you END debate you don’t like.

And I am not angry, just frustrated that I am completely wasting my time here. There is no critical thinking going on..

Your conclusion is irrelevant, what is important is how you reached it. Your argument is flawed and instead of acknowledging that or defending it you try to discredit. That isn’t a discussion or debate, that is self serving denial. You are unable or unwilling to defend your own argument.

and it goes beyond the height issue. Every discussion devolves into personal attacks, smears and false accusation to defend a set position instead of a critical analysis and exchange of the information…


Just not interested in participating.. it is not only a waste of time, I really don’t care what others think so why bother.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3215 on: August 07, 2018, 11:59:29 AM »
 That's all part of a debate...I'm not going to argue about it either..

Take care
 

Offline haggarknew

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3216 on: August 07, 2018, 12:04:00 PM »
             In response to many previous posts concerning the shoes worn (not directing this to anyone in particular)
                     It was my understanding that the shoes worn by D.B. were slip on type dress shoes or loafers according to Tina. Correct me if I am wrong I thought I read that somewhere in the files. Was it in  her interview with the F.B.I. right after the hijacking?
                      It's hard to believe loafers would add much to his height. 
                     
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3217 on: August 07, 2018, 12:06:30 PM »
This will be to all...if I disagree with something don't let that stop you from continuing..my opinion is just my opinion..you can accept it or discount it....

Crap....battery low and no charger
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3218 on: August 07, 2018, 12:35:47 PM »
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That's all part of a debate...I'm not going to argue about it either..

Take care

You just don't get it, it isn't part of a debate, there is no debate, there is no critical thinking.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3219 on: August 07, 2018, 09:19:54 PM »
what do you want done with your account...I can see that you are still here active in the background?
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3220 on: August 07, 2018, 09:27:50 PM »
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what do you want done with your account...I can see that you are still here active in the background?

If you delete my account does that delete all my posts?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3221 on: August 07, 2018, 10:15:24 PM »
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what do you want done with your account...I can see that you are still here active in the background?

If you delete my account does that delete all my posts?

It gives an option too. I don't hold anything against you and you should reconsider..it's up to you..
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3222 on: August 08, 2018, 07:03:40 PM »
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what do you want done with your account...I can see that you are still here active in the background?

If you delete my account does that delete all my posts?

It gives an option too. I don't hold anything against you and you should reconsider..it's up to you..


Unbelievable, this guy, FLYJACK, is argumentative and confrontational while crashing and burning before our very eyes.

Maybe it's you, FLYJACK, who doesn't allow open debate and critical thinking....you spew your theories, then belligerently attack anyone who disagrees with you.  Truth: you're an arrogant bully.  Try a new approach -- I thought they taught better manners in Canada -- they do in the Okanagan in BC, where I'm from.

Meyer
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3223 on: August 10, 2018, 12:00:02 AM »
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what do you want done with your account...I can see that you are still here active in the background?

If you delete my account does that delete all my posts?

It gives an option too. I don't hold anything against you and you should reconsider..it's up to you..


Unbelievable, this guy, FLYJACK, is argumentative and confrontational while crashing and burning before our very eyes.

Maybe it's you, FLYJACK, who doesn't allow open debate and critical thinking....you spew your theories, then belligerently attack anyone who disagrees with you.  Truth: you're an arrogant bully.  Try a new approach -- I thought they taught better manners in Canada -- they do in the Okanagan in BC, where I'm from.

Meyer

"crashing and burning" That is a joke...  I am just tired of personal attacks to defend poor thinking.. defend your dam conclusion with intellectual honesty.
 
I am 100% correct on this. My arg is neutral, you can't eliminate a suspect on an assumption. You need 100% proof to eliminate. Shutter's opinion is the extreme position and unproven. He has no arg to support it so he attacked my cred, he needs to prove why Hahneman is eliminated, he can't. It is an opinion without evidence to support a predetermined position. Shutter has trashed KC for years for being too short, so he can't accept Hahneman.. but Hahneman isn't 5' 8"... at least not while hijacking a 727. Passport info is just not accurate.


A reporter, eye witness account of the Hahneman hijacking..

"At 1:19, the captain’s voice again returned. “The colored- stewardess will be allowed to get off,” he said, “but only after all the other passengers have departed.” As passengers moved methodically toward the rear exit, carrying hand baggage, a sense of relief seemed evident in their quick strides. ......... I became so involved in trying to study him up close, but the sight of his gun turned my attention from him. The hijacker seemed middle-aged, about 5-feet 10-inches, black hair specked with traces of gray, a pointed nose and a dark complexion that seemed twice as menacing behind a pair of deeply tinted sunglasses."

BTW,,  I found something else some you of old time DZer's completely missed..

Al Lee described Tina as 5' 6", her FBI interview stated 5' 8"... so, either AL Lee is poor at height estimates ,Tina removed her shoes or she lies about her height. Research does show that height estimates are very poor..

Then I recalled...

Geoffrey Gray's book quote..

“I find Alice Hancock, the first class stew, living outside of Minneapolis. She answers the phone with a sweet voice, a cheerful personality. In retirement, she is studying Chinese. she remembers clear moments from the hijacking, how she attempted to lure young Tina away from the hijacker with playing cards, how copilot Bill Rataczak was freaking out in the cockpit and told her for some reason to remove her shoes."

SAY WHAT... I looked it up.. Emergency training procedure was to remove heels... in case of evacuation..

At that time almost all Stews wore heels, so did they remove their shoes? no idea.. but they were asked to.. and if they did Cooper would appear taller than he was..


Bottom line is, you can't eliminate Hahneman based on the info we have, maybe there is something we don't have that can.

If anybody actually has evidence that eliminates Hahneman let me know... So far, I haven't seen it..
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 12:19:08 AM by FLYJACK »
 
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georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #3224 on: August 10, 2018, 12:26:21 AM »
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what do you want done with your account...I can see that you are still here active in the background?

If you delete my account does that delete all my posts?

It gives an option too. I don't hold anything against you and you should reconsider..it's up to you..


Unbelievable, this guy, FLYJACK, is argumentative and confrontational while crashing and burning before our very eyes.

Maybe it's you, FLYJACK, who doesn't allow open debate and critical thinking....you spew your theories, then belligerently attack anyone who disagrees with you.  Truth: you're an arrogant bully.  Try a new approach -- I thought they taught better manners in Canada -- they do in the Okanagan in BC, where I'm from.

Meyer

"crashing and burning" That is a joke...  I am just tired of personal attacks to defend poor thinking.. defend your dam conclusion with intellectual honesty.
 
I am 100% correct on this. My arg is neutral, you can't eliminate a suspect on an assumption. You need 100% proof to eliminate. Shutter's opinion is the extreme position and unproven. He has no arg to support it so he attacked my cred, he needs to prove why Hahneman is eliminated, he can't. It is an opinion without evidence to support a predetermined position. Shutter has trashed KC for years for being too short, so he can't accept Hahneman.. but Hahneman isn't 5' 8"... at least not while hijacking a 727. Passport info is just not accurate.


A reporter, eye witness account of the Hahneman hijacking..

"At 1:19, the captain’s voice again returned. “The colored- stewardess will be allowed to get off,” he said, “but only after all the other passengers have departed.” As passengers moved methodically toward the rear exit, carrying hand baggage, a sense of relief seemed evident in their quick strides. ......... I became so involved in trying to study him up close, but the sight of his gun turned my attention from him. The hijacker seemed middle-aged, about 5-feet 10-inches, black hair specked with traces of gray, a pointed nose and a dark complexion that seemed twice as menacing behind a pair of deeply tinted sunglasses."

BTW,,  I found something else some you of old time DZer's completely missed..

Al Lee described Tina as 5' 6", her FBI interview stated 5' 8"... so, either AL Lee is poor at height estimates ,Tina removed her shoes or she lies about her height. Research does show that height estimates are very poor..

Then I recalled...

Geoffrey Gray's book quote..

“I find Alice Hancock, the first class stew, living outside of Minneapolis. She answers the phone with a sweet voice, a cheerful personality. In retirement, she is studying Chinese. she remembers clear moments from the hijacking, how she attempted to lure young Tina away from the hijacker with playing cards, how copilot Bill Rataczak was freaking out in the cockpit and told her for some reason to remove her shoes."

SAY WHAT... I looked it up.. Emergency training procedure was to remove heels... in case of evacuation..

At that time almost all Stews wore heels, so did they remove their shoes? no idea.. but they were asked to.. and if they did Cooper would appear taller than he was..


Bottom line is, you can't eliminate Hahneman based on the info we have, maybe there is something we don't have that can.

If anybody actually has evidence that eliminates Hahneman let me know... So far, I haven't seen it..

Do you think he was available to do the hijacking? Wasn't some place else?