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Could a bag of money, or a bundle of money go against the natural current for 10 miles by reverse flow?

Voting closes: December 20, 2017, 06:18:30 PM

Author Topic: New Forum & News Updates  (Read 233900 times)

Offline FLYJACK

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4110 on: December 06, 2017, 03:06:24 PM »
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The stairs were in a free fall position. anyway you look at it...the test showed the same thing.,once you put weight on the stairs they go down, and when you leave the stairs, they go back up....

Yes, of course they were in a free fall position but at what point in the timeline? The sled test doesn't tell us that. The amber indicator light light is not necessarily an indication of a drop.. only a lever move and at about 20 degrees opening the end would be about 3ft x 3.5ft.

7:33 Flight 305 takes off

7:37 Tina goes to cabin

7:40:06  NW 305 Three oh five through sixty five hundred ah trying to get the stairs down back there ah

7:40:48 NW 305 One oh five ah three oh five we’re gonna level off here for a while at seven thousand he wants the steps down ah we’re gonna have er about down to a hundred and sixty knots

7:42 Cooper is trying to get the door down, Stew is with us, he cannot get the stairs down. We now have an aft stair light on.

7:44:22 NW 305 Okay we’ll hold at seven here we got the back steps down now and ah it looks like we aren’t gonna be able to climb anymore

7:45 Flt 305 reports 19 NM DME out of SEA at 7,000 ft. No comm.. with Cooper but have an aft stair light.

7:51:42 NW 305 Center Northwest three oh five ah we’re gonna climb out climbing up ah to ten thousand and ah we’re through nine now

7:53:34 NW 305 Northwest three oh five we’re ten thousand and 170- 180 knots

8:05 Pilot reports that he has tried twice to contact Cooper unsuccessfully, thenhe came on the PA system and said everything is OK.

8:12 Flt 305 advises they are getting some oscillations in the cabin, Cooper must be doing something with the stairs.
 

Online georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4111 on: December 06, 2017, 03:20:35 PM »
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The stairs were in a free fall position. anyway you look at it...the test showed the same thing.,once you put weight on the stairs they go down, and when you leave the stairs, they go back up....

Yes, of course they were in a free fall position but at what point in the timeline? The sled test doesn't tell us that. The amber indicator light light is not necessarily an indication of a drop.. only a lever move and at about 20 degrees opening the end would be about 3ft x 3.5ft.

7:33 Flight 305 takes off

7:37 Tina goes to cabin

7:40:06  NW 305 Three oh five through sixty five hundred ah trying to get the stairs down back there ah

7:40:48 NW 305 One oh five ah three oh five we’re gonna level off here for a while at seven thousand he wants the steps down ah we’re gonna have er about down to a hundred and sixty knots

7:42 Cooper is trying to get the door down, Stew is with us, he cannot get the stairs down. We now have an aft stair light on.

7:44:22 NW 305 Okay we’ll hold at seven here we got the back steps down now and ah it looks like we aren’t gonna be able to climb anymore

7:45 Flt 305 reports 19 NM DME out of SEA at 7,000 ft. No comm.. with Cooper but have an aft stair light.

7:51:42 NW 305 Center Northwest three oh five ah we’re gonna climb out climbing up ah to ten thousand and ah we’re through nine now

7:53:34 NW 305 Northwest three oh five we’re ten thousand and 170- 180 knots

8:05 Pilot reports that he has tried twice to contact Cooper unsuccessfully, thenhe came on the PA system and said everything is OK.

8:12 Flt 305 advises they are getting some oscillations in the cabin, Cooper must be doing something with the stairs.

Look! The pressure spike is supposed to indicate the stairs have slammed shut - closed. We know it is mere fractions of seconds from the time weight is off those stairs until they slam shut from hydraulic pressure? (see my previous calc on closure response time). Time of pressure spike is tantamount to time of jump. But nobody was clocking these events with any precision.  You seem to be trying to shrink wrap a vacuum in space and time and non existent data!  ;)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 03:22:47 PM by georger »
 

Online georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4112 on: December 06, 2017, 04:04:23 PM »
Anderson added, it had not occurred to them at the time to pinpoint their exact location at the time of the oscillation …  (11/24/71 deposition with the FBI)

 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4113 on: December 06, 2017, 04:57:28 PM »
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So you claim today 2017 that your "interview" with BR trumps all other evidence/testimony, today.


Nope. That's not what I said, nor do I support or believe that notion. I'm a big fan of empirical evidence.

But I do respect personal accounts given by the people involved. I have stated what I have in these past few days because your respect for the remembrances from Norjak principals seems to be lacking.
 

Online georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4114 on: December 06, 2017, 11:47:43 PM »
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So you claim today 2017 that your "interview" with BR trumps all other evidence/testimony, today.


Nope. That's not what I said, nor do I support or believe that notion. I'm a big fan of empirical evidence.

But I do respect personal accounts given by the people involved. I have stated what I have in these past few days because your respect for the remembrances from Norjak principals seems to be lacking.

An Apple is not a Banana.

Here is an apple. And here is a banana.

Let us know when you are ready.
 

Offline MeyerLouie

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4115 on: December 07, 2017, 05:01:56 AM »
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Yet, I am the only one here to have spoken with Bill Rataczak.

So you claim today 2017 that your "interview" with BR trumps all other evidence/testimony, today. Moreover, you claim, but do not know!, that your 2009 interview with BR is the "only" BR interview ever done by a forum member, to date! Those are strong claims - a social posture really which you are using as evidence of ...  anything you wish to use that claim for!

Allow me to refresh your memory of yourself in 2009, Mr. Smith, when you said of your just concluded interview with BR, quote:

Reviewing all of this, one can make a couple of assumptions. One is that a lot of people in Norjak are forgetful. Another notion is that a lot of people in Norjak don't want us to know the truth.

I go with the latter perspective because when people have fuzzy memories, like Dorwin Schroeder (like Bill Rataczak), they usually tell me about it or make a joke. Bill changed his story all in one conversation and never broke a sweat. He either has a neurological impairment or missed a beat in his spin story.
(This post was edited by BruceSmith on Dec 15, 2013, 4:23 PM)
 

So, in 2009 you said Bill Rataczak either has a neurological impairment or missed a beat in his spin story lying to me.

Today you say your interview is strong crucial final evidence, since you are the only one to ever interview BR.

What is your position today 24 hours later?  Is your interview with BR the best only evidence going in the Cooper case or a lie and a conspiracy? :rofl:

edit: You can read yourself in 2009 here, if it matters at all today: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Since when is total hypocrisy endorsed and supported on any forum, as it is being supported here under Freedom of Speech!?  :rofl:

Georger, you (and R99) correct Smith pretty much on a daily basis, you catch him in the act of not presenting the facts, or incorrectly representing the facts or a situation.  Smith still does not deem it necessary to check his facts and story before spouting off on the forum.  Good journalists I know would never think of doing such a thing.  As far as I can see, Smith, like Blevins, has created his own tangled web of zero credibility.   Smith won't even go back and read his own posts, and if he does, he misquotes or misrepresents himself!  How can that be?? This guy claims he is credible, but he proves pretty much on a daily basis that he is not.  Unbelievable!

Meyer 
MeyerLouie
 

Offline FLYJACK

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4116 on: December 07, 2017, 09:01:27 AM »
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The stairs were in a free fall position. anyway you look at it...the test showed the same thing.,once you put weight on the stairs they go down, and when you leave the stairs, they go back up....

Yes, of course they were in a free fall position but at what point in the timeline? The sled test doesn't tell us that. The amber indicator light light is not necessarily an indication of a drop.. only a lever move and at about 20 degrees opening the end would be about 3ft x 3.5ft.

7:33 Flight 305 takes off

7:37 Tina goes to cabin

7:40:06  NW 305 Three oh five through sixty five hundred ah trying to get the stairs down back there ah

7:40:48 NW 305 One oh five ah three oh five we’re gonna level off here for a while at seven thousand he wants the steps down ah we’re gonna have er about down to a hundred and sixty knots

7:42 Cooper is trying to get the door down, Stew is with us, he cannot get the stairs down. We now have an aft stair light on.

7:44:22 NW 305 Okay we’ll hold at seven here we got the back steps down now and ah it looks like we aren’t gonna be able to climb anymore

7:45 Flt 305 reports 19 NM DME out of SEA at 7,000 ft. No comm.. with Cooper but have an aft stair light.

7:51:42 NW 305 Center Northwest three oh five ah we’re gonna climb out climbing up ah to ten thousand and ah we’re through nine now

7:53:34 NW 305 Northwest three oh five we’re ten thousand and 170- 180 knots

8:05 Pilot reports that he has tried twice to contact Cooper unsuccessfully, thenhe came on the PA system and said everything is OK.

8:12 Flt 305 advises they are getting some oscillations in the cabin, Cooper must be doing something with the stairs.

FJ, people at DZ tried to cross reference CVR with FDR data, or they thought about trying that. Of course none of that data was available, but it became a kind of mental exercise at DZ juggling the options. Here are a few urls where posts on this matter happened... maybe you will find something of interest.

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Just looking at a potential relationship between the placard location and jump.. 

IMO it is probable the Placard exited the plane when Cooper descended the Airstairs right after talking to crew at about 8:05. So, with some math using the Placard location we might be able to determine a jump point and LZ.

If the Placard exited at 8:05 was found at X and Cooper exited at 8:10, where did he land?


Assumptions..
It is unlikely Cooper descended the Airstairs then returned to communicate with crew.

When the Airstairs are open 20 degrees, the side panels, angle of the steps and small opening would prevent the placard from exiting the plane.

Pic of Airstairs at 20 degrees, there is really a small opening at the end about 3ft x 3.5ft and although this pic is missing the right side panel and entire left side rail and panel, it would be difficult for an item to fall out until Cooper's descending weight opened the Airstairs more and changed the angle of the steps.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 09:07:04 AM by FLYJACK »
 

Offline FLYJACK

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4117 on: December 07, 2017, 11:55:09 AM »
Rough calc with placard location and drift, flight path, jump time..  this would (roughly) be Cooper's LZ if the Placard left the plane with a Cooper Airstair descent at 8:05. I am sure it can be done more precisely.. but it includes Lake Merwin and slightly North,,, that puts the Lewis River in play..  what about those tides going up the Columbia,,, King tides?
 

Offline FLYJACK

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4118 on: December 07, 2017, 01:55:17 PM »
Lewis River upstream to TBAR??

Years ago I looked at this. Hydrologist Fread, DL claimed up to a 106 mi flow reversal on the Columbia River, that would include TBAR..  Lake Merwin > Lewis River > TBAR..  possible?
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4119 on: December 07, 2017, 02:05:36 PM »
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Lewis River upstream to TBAR??

Years ago I looked at this. Hydrologist Fread, DL claimed up to a 106 mi flow reversal on the Columbia River, that would include TBAR..  Lake Merwin > Lewis River > TBAR..  possible?

Topographical charts for the Portland/Vancouver area state that the maximum tidal effect is between 1 and 2 feet.  This is relatively insignificant.
 

Offline FLYJACK

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4120 on: December 07, 2017, 02:12:06 PM »
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Lewis River upstream to TBAR??

Years ago I looked at this. Hydrologist Fread, DL claimed up to a 106 mi flow reversal on the Columbia River, that would include TBAR..  Lake Merwin > Lewis River > TBAR..  possible?

Topographical charts for the Portland/Vancouver area state that the maximum tidal effect is between 1 and 2 feet.  This is relatively insignificant.

What about flow, Fread suggests Columbia flow reversal upstream beyond TBAR.. can flow reversal move an object from the Lewis River up to TBAR??  Need to find cited papers..
 

Online Kermit

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4121 on: December 07, 2017, 03:01:04 PM »
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Lewis River upstream to TBAR??

Years ago I looked at this. Hydrologist Fread, DL claimed up to a 106 mi flow reversal on the Columbia River, that would include TBAR..  Lake Merwin > Lewis River > TBAR..  possible?

Topographical charts for the Portland/Vancouver area state that the maximum tidal effect is between 1 and 2 feet.  This is relatively insignificant.

What about flow, Fread suggests Columbia flow reversal upstream beyond TBAR.. can flow reversal move an object from the Lewis River up to TBAR??  Need to find cited papers..

I can attest to the fact that the tidal flow can sometimes reverse upstream of Tina Bar. I have fished and water skied up and down most every mile upstream almost to bonneville dam. The tidal reversal goes up the Willamette river as far as Willamette Falls in Oregon City. For those that aren’t locals, the Willamette flows into the Columbia a short distance from Tina Bar.
 

Online georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4122 on: December 07, 2017, 04:07:10 PM »
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Yet, I am the only one here to have spoken with Bill Rataczak.

So you claim today 2017 that your "interview" with BR trumps all other evidence/testimony, today. Moreover, you claim, but do not know!, that your 2009 interview with BR is the "only" BR interview ever done by a forum member, to date! Those are strong claims - a social posture really which you are using as evidence of ...  anything you wish to use that claim for!

Allow me to refresh your memory of yourself in 2009, Mr. Smith, when you said of your just concluded interview with BR, quote:

Reviewing all of this, one can make a couple of assumptions. One is that a lot of people in Norjak are forgetful. Another notion is that a lot of people in Norjak don't want us to know the truth.

I go with the latter perspective because when people have fuzzy memories, like Dorwin Schroeder (like Bill Rataczak), they usually tell me about it or make a joke. Bill changed his story all in one conversation and never broke a sweat. He either has a neurological impairment or missed a beat in his spin story.
(This post was edited by BruceSmith on Dec 15, 2013, 4:23 PM)
 

So, in 2009 you said Bill Rataczak either has a neurological impairment or missed a beat in his spin story lying to me.

Today you say your interview is strong crucial final evidence, since you are the only one to ever interview BR.

What is your position today 24 hours later?  Is your interview with BR the best only evidence going in the Cooper case or a lie and a conspiracy? :rofl:

edit: You can read yourself in 2009 here, if it matters at all today: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Since when is total hypocrisy endorsed and supported on any forum, as it is being supported here under Freedom of Speech!?  :rofl:

Georger, you (and R99) correct Smith pretty much on a daily basis, you catch him in the act of not presenting the facts, or incorrectly representing the facts or a situation.  Smith still does not deem it necessary to check his facts and story before spouting off on the forum.  Good journalists I know would never think of doing such a thing.  As far as I can see, Smith, like Blevins, has created his own tangled web of zero credibility.   Smith won't even go back and read his own posts, and if he does, he misquotes or misrepresents himself!  How can that be?? This guy claims he is credible, but he proves pretty much on a daily basis that he is not.  Unbelievable!

Meyer

I just find it interesting that Smith cites BR as a liar in a conspiracy and neurologically impaired, on Monday 2009, then turns around and and cites his interview with BR as the best factual evidence existent, on Thursday 2017, adding 'since I am the only one in this forum to ever interview BR' (which has nothing to do with anything!). Smith has now resorted to doing what Blevins did which was to claim he never said what he said, or meant what he said. Its all the usual Bruce Smith anarchy, but some people like it!     
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 04:32:00 PM by georger »
 

Online georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4123 on: December 07, 2017, 04:18:10 PM »
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Lewis River upstream to TBAR??

Years ago I looked at this. Hydrologist Fread, DL claimed up to a 106 mi flow reversal on the Columbia River, that would include TBAR..  Lake Merwin > Lewis River > TBAR..  possible?

Topographical charts for the Portland/Vancouver area state that the maximum tidal effect is between 1 and 2 feet.  This is relatively insignificant.

What about flow, Fread suggests Columbia flow reversal upstream beyond TBAR.. can flow reversal move an object from the Lewis River up to TBAR??  Need to find cited papers..

I can attest to the fact that the tidal flow can sometimes reverse upstream of Tina Bar. I have fished and water skied up and down most every mile upstream almost to bonneville dam. The tidal reversal goes up the Willamette river as far as Willamette Falls in Oregon City. For those that aren’t locals, the Willamette flows into the Columbia a short distance from Tina Bar.

Trying to identify the current or tidal affect that placed Cooper money at Tina Bar is about like looking for the asteroid that put life on the Earth. Was it an interstellar asteroid, something within our own solar system, or planted here by the Tidal Masters and Flow Controllers of the Universe who also conducted the Big Bang!?  ;D

Whatever is responsible must account for the morphology of the money find at TBar. Until that is resolved everything else is guesswork.



« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 04:34:38 PM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4124 on: December 07, 2017, 05:07:31 PM »
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Georger, you (and R99) correct Smith pretty much on a daily basis, you catch him in the act of not presenting the facts, or incorrectly representing the facts or a situation.  Smith still does not deem it necessary to check his facts and story before spouting off on the forum.  Good journalists I know would never think of doing such a thing.  As far as I can see, Smith, like Blevins, has created his own tangled web of zero credibility.   Smith won't even go back and read his own posts, and if he does, he misquotes or misrepresents himself!  How can that be?? This guy claims he is credible, but he proves pretty much on a daily basis that he is not.  Unbelievable!

Meyer

Again, Meyer, you fail to cite specific instances of error or mis-statement. Tsk, tsk.