Author Topic: New Forum & News Updates  (Read 1805537 times)

Offline DBfan57

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #7395 on: November 14, 2020, 07:07:32 AM »
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Here’s a link to the new cooper hbo doc coming out on the 24th. Is that Tina’s voice?



I saw the 25th on HBO mentioned?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #7396 on: November 14, 2020, 03:41:51 PM »
Yup. Two shows: one tonight on the History Channel. A second one in eleven days on HBO, 11. 25. The first one features Eric Ulis and will discuss all the new stuff. The HBO docu is more of a historical retrospective - lots of suspects, theories, etc.
 

Offline georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #7397 on: November 14, 2020, 04:47:42 PM »
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Yup. Two shows: one tonight on the History Channel. A second one in eleven days on HBO, 11. 25. The first one features Eric Ulis and will discuss all the new stuff. The HBO docu is more of a historical retrospective - lots of suspects, theories, etc.

Actually 3 shows, guess you missed it. History repeated the whole Colbert episode on Rackstraw Thursday evening. Nobody commented.   ;)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 04:49:01 PM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #7398 on: November 14, 2020, 06:33:44 PM »
I don't have cable, Direct-TV, or a TV set, so I watch everything through my pc and streaming services.

Tonight, I just signed up for "PHILO" and their 7-Day Free Trial Period. They are streaming History's Greatest Mysteries three times tonight. First showing is at 6 pm PST. After the free time, it'll be twenty bucks per month.

For the HBO thingy on the 25th, I'll be signing up for HBO Max at Hulu, where I already stream. That'll be ten bucks a month, I think.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #7399 on: November 14, 2020, 06:35:20 PM »
BTW, I'm getting emails and phone calls through the roof from Newbies and Family-Members-Whose-Husband/Ex/Brother/Grandfather/Etc. was/is DBC.

Anybody else getting lots of contacts? I've never seen anything like it.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #7400 on: November 14, 2020, 11:49:15 PM »
Review of HC's "History's Greatest Mysteries," The Final Hunt for DB Cooper," w Eric Ulis

Excellent broadcast. Probably the most factual and solid reporting of the case. Eric carried the show and was excellent in front of the camera. In fact, I wish he had more screen time to explain the case, the evidence, and the controversy surrounding the flight path.

The docu has three main parts: Searching around Bachelor Island for parachutes and physical evidence, and the parallel discussion on the western flight path, including a concise interview with ATC Cliff Ammerman. Two, a discussion about Sheridan Peterson. Three, breakthrough information on the DNA.

This latter segment will probably fill pages here. Apparently, Tom Kaye suctioned the tie and collected his findings in a sterile filter encapsulated within a sterile container. This may be "Pure DBC DNA." Or not. Whatever it is, it was profiled at DNA Laboratory International in Deerfield Beach, Florida, so we may have DB Cooper's DNA, finally. Or not.

Is it better than the three DNA samples the FBI has/had? The docu didn't discuss that, and that is a failing. Is the Tom Kaye DNA sample simply one of the three DNA samples that the FBI has? Again, not broached in the docu, and remains unknown.

Overall, the docu is excellent. The searching on Bachelor Island drags a bit, and the producers recognized that dynamic so they began intersplicing Sheridan tidbits, but that was mostly distracting. However, it was a lot of fun to see the fatigue on the faces of the searchers after ten hours in the field, and Eric looked so rain-soaked it appeared he had just spent an afternoon tumbling in a Laundromat washing machine.

Some new players were introduced and they were excellent. FBI agent Mary Jean Fryar was superb, and I LOVED her interviews with Petey, who was as flakey and flippant as we have ever seen. BTW: I did love the baseball cap he wore during his interview: "I Miss Obama."

Also, Claire Peterson, Pete's first wife gave a substantive interview, and I relished it. Mark Metzler is also interviewed at length, and it is a delight as Mark has never had more screen time. As always, he is most eloquent.

Looking at the docus that have been produced in the past few years, they are getting better and better as Hollywood has more reliable and camera-ready Cooperites to tap as principals in their broadcasts, and rely less on narratives written by LA-based producers and screen writers, who generally muck everything up.

Addendum

After reading Tom Kaye's comments in the "evidence" thread, the DNA that got tested is NOT DB Cooper's. It's Tom's. How that happened falls in the "Shit Happens" category, apparently.

In the meantime, Petey is back on the hot seat, Eric has a WHOLE new documentary to film, and Cooper World can rest easy knowing that Norjak ain't solved yet, exactly....
« Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 12:18:27 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #7401 on: November 15, 2020, 01:06:03 AM »
Nice review Mr. Smith. I feel like I've already watched it now. I didn't get to watch it tonight, as I had friends over to watch boxing. It's recorded though, and I think I will find something to punish my daughter for tomorrow and make her watch it with me. If it were a serial killer, she'd be all about it. But I just can't seem to get her interested in Mr. Cooper.
 

Offline MarkBennett

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #7402 on: November 15, 2020, 02:35:01 AM »
The History Channel did not even mention that they don't really have a DNA sample.  Their production is almost fraudulent in that regard.  I think Erik did a good job, though.
 

Offline georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #7403 on: November 15, 2020, 02:45:49 AM »
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Review of HC's "History's Greatest Mysteries," The Final Hunt for DB Cooper," w Eric Ulis

Excellent broadcast. Probably the most factual and solid reporting of the case. Eric carried the show and was excellent in front of the camera. In fact, I wish he had more screen time to explain the case, the evidence, and the controversy surrounding the flight path.

The docu has three main parts: Searching around Bachelor Island for parachutes and physical evidence, and the parallel discussion on the western flight path, including a concise interview with ATC Cliff Ammerman. Two, a discussion about Sheridan Peterson. Three, breakthrough information on the DNA.

This latter segment will probably fill pages here. Apparently, Tom Kaye suctioned the tie and collected his findings in a sterile filter encapsulated within a sterile container. This may be "Pure DBC DNA." Or not. Whatever it is, it was profiled at DNA Laboratory International in Deerfield Beach, Florida, so we may have DB Cooper's DNA, finally. Or not.

Is it better than the three DNA samples the FBI has/had? The docu didn't discuss that, and that is a failing. Is the Tom Kaye DNA sample simply one of the three DNA samples that the FBI has? Again, not broached in the docu, and remains unknown.

Overall, the docu is excellent. The searching on Bachelor Island drags a bit, and the producers recognized that dynamic so they began intersplicing Sheridan tidbits, but that was mostly distracting. However, it was a lot of fun to see the fatigue on the faces of the searchers after ten hours in the field, and Eric looked so rain-soaked it appeared he had just spent an afternoon tumbling in a Laundromat washing machine.

Some new players were introduced and they were excellent. FBI agent Mary Jean Fryar was superb, and I LOVED her interviews with Petey, who was as flakey and flippant as we have ever seen. BTW: I did love the baseball cap he wore during his interview: "I Miss Obama."

Also, Claire Peterson, Pete's first wife gave a substantive interview, and I relished it. Mark Metzler is also interviewed at length, and it is a delight as Mark has never had more screen time. As always, he is most eloquent.

Looking at the docus that have been produced in the past few years, they are getting better and better as Hollywood has more reliable and camera-ready Cooperites to tap as principals in their broadcasts, and rely less on narratives written by LA-based producers and screen writers, who generally muck everything up.

Addendum

After reading Tom Kaye's comments in the "evidence" thread, the DNA that got tested is NOT DB Cooper's. It's Tom's. How that happened falls in the "Shit Happens" category, apparently.

In the meantime, Petey is back on the hot seat, Eric has a WHOLE new documentary to film, and Cooper World can rest easy knowing that Norjak ain't solved yet, exactly....

Again: "Oh the drama of it all"!   ::)

My analysis is different. (1) the west path back-n-forth was unconvincing and a dud. Went nowhere. (2) The 'alleged' Cooper DZ area turned up common fence wire stuck in the ground - Ulis added drama by calling parachute expert Metzler who ascertained that 'galvanized fence wire is not part of parachutes' - then a fabric was found and submitted to expert Metzler also who assessed that heavy rip stop canvas fabric with leather stitched in it is also not part of parachutes (but maybe a donkey saddle or a common tent ?). The alleged Cooper DZ search was a dud. (3) The DNA. What a well kept secret!  :o   The dna turned out to be Tom's own DNA, not that of DB Cooper or anyone else! But the dna was not Peterson's either, as hoped for! The dna segment turned out to be a big dud.

Outcome: Sheridan Peterson and his fans live to quack until the next wild goose season. This was not a documentary. This was one more DB Cooper promotion. Since they closed this production prematurely prior to knowing/announcing the DNA is not Cooper's or Peterson's, but Tom's, the whole ending of this cable broadcast falls short of its actual conclusion. How to reconnect with realty is now up for grabs and a huge failure! I am told the production company covered the $15,000 ? dollar cost of the dna test ...   So kudos to "DNA Laboratory International in Deerfield Beach, Florida" They are the clear winners.  :congrats:   

Better luck to DB Cooper fans - next time.  :chr2: 
« Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 03:15:00 AM by georger »
 

Offline RaoulDuke24

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #7404 on: November 15, 2020, 09:52:09 AM »
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Review of HC's "History's Greatest Mysteries," The Final Hunt for DB Cooper," w Eric Ulis

Excellent broadcast. Probably the most factual and solid reporting of the case. Eric carried the show and was excellent in front of the camera. In fact, I wish he had more screen time to explain the case, the evidence, and the controversy surrounding the flight path.

The docu has three main parts: Searching around Bachelor Island for parachutes and physical evidence, and the parallel discussion on the western flight path, including a concise interview with ATC Cliff Ammerman. Two, a discussion about Sheridan Peterson. Three, breakthrough information on the DNA.

This latter segment will probably fill pages here. Apparently, Tom Kaye suctioned the tie and collected his findings in a sterile filter encapsulated within a sterile container. This may be "Pure DBC DNA." Or not. Whatever it is, it was profiled at DNA Laboratory International in Deerfield Beach, Florida, so we may have DB Cooper's DNA, finally. Or not.

Is it better than the three DNA samples the FBI has/had? The docu didn't discuss that, and that is a failing. Is the Tom Kaye DNA sample simply one of the three DNA samples that the FBI has? Again, not broached in the docu, and remains unknown.

Overall, the docu is excellent. The searching on Bachelor Island drags a bit, and the producers recognized that dynamic so they began intersplicing Sheridan tidbits, but that was mostly distracting. However, it was a lot of fun to see the fatigue on the faces of the searchers after ten hours in the field, and Eric looked so rain-soaked it appeared he had just spent an afternoon tumbling in a Laundromat washing machine.

Some new players were introduced and they were excellent. FBI agent Mary Jean Fryar was superb, and I LOVED her interviews with Petey, who was as flakey and flippant as we have ever seen. BTW: I did love the baseball cap he wore during his interview: "I Miss Obama."

Also, Claire Peterson, Pete's first wife gave a substantive interview, and I relished it. Mark Metzler is also interviewed at length, and it is a delight as Mark has never had more screen time. As always, he is most eloquent.

Looking at the docus that have been produced in the past few years, they are getting better and better as Hollywood has more reliable and camera-ready Cooperites to tap as principals in their broadcasts, and rely less on narratives written by LA-based producers and screen writers, who generally muck everything up.

Addendum

After reading Tom Kaye's comments in the "evidence" thread, the DNA that got tested is NOT DB Cooper's. It's Tom's. How that happened falls in the "Shit Happens" category, apparently.

In the meantime, Petey is back on the hot seat, Eric has a WHOLE new documentary to film, and Cooper World can rest easy knowing that Norjak ain't solved yet, exactly....

I agree with your review. Peterson looked like he was likely exonerated. But now that we know the DNA was Tom's, I suppose that keeps Peterson in the conversation.

Some things I would include in my own personal review of the show....

--- Eric addressed Peterson's blue eyes in the show. But one thing that was never addressed is that Peterson was as bald as a bowling ball by 1971. So now we would have to introduce the possibility of a wig or something, which is something that has always given me pause with Peterson. I wish the show would have addressed this when they addressed the eye color.

--- Eric (and I believe someone else here as well) has posted some interesting calculations about wind speed and direction and the amount of drift that Cooper would have been subjected to after deploying his parachute (depending on freefall time) and how that calculates into where he could have landed. I wish the show would have gone into this because I think it's a crucial part of the discussion surrounding the drop zone. And considering the bulk of the show was centered around searching new possible landing areas, it seems like a pretty big thing to leave out.

--- All the tromping through the woods felt like a wild goose chase and searching for a needle in a field of haystacks when you don't know if the needle even exists in the first place. However, I do think it brought some value. For one, I had no idea that some of the land there is protected by a wildlife refuge and that there aren't people regularly visiting it. Second, it gives a lot of people some broader perspective about just how big (and thickly vegetated) the area is. I live on the crowded east coast, as do many of the viewers of the show. And many of us city dwellers probably don't have quite the same perspective about just how vast the area is and how challenging the terrain can be.

One of the big arguments in favor of Cooper surviving is "well it's been 49 years and nobody has ever found a body or anything and there are tons of hunters and hikers and people fishing and camping and what not in those woods and surely someone would have found something by now." It remains a strong argument, but it's not bulletproof. Especially when you learn that some of it is protected by a wildlife refuge so there aren't hunters and hikers out there to find anything. There was also a line in there about how years of overgrowth could be providing cover for any evidence that might be out there, which is something that I think I overlooked. And a western flight path introduces more water and small islands to the mix. I am still in the camp that believes he survived, but I think the show did add some more perspective about the likeliness vs. the unlikeliness of something actually being found, even after 49 years. So I do think it brought some value to the table, despite having the feeling that it was done for dramatic TV purposes.

--- I also wish they would have discussed the previous DNA samples that were lifted and why those didn't turn up this time around.

All in all, I really enjoyed the show. I've always held reservations about Peterson being Cooper and the show didn't change my mind on that. But that does not discredit the work that Eric has done. I hope he continues to push the case forward because he's doing some great stuff.
 

Offline RaoulDuke24

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #7405 on: November 15, 2020, 09:53:33 AM »
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I don't have cable, Direct-TV, or a TV set, so I watch everything through my pc and streaming services.

Tonight, I just signed up for "PHILO" and their 7-Day Free Trial Period. They are streaming History's Greatest Mysteries three times tonight. First showing is at 6 pm PST. After the free time, it'll be twenty bucks per month.

For the HBO thingy on the 25th, I'll be signing up for HBO Max at Hulu, where I already stream. That'll be ten bucks a month, I think.

I saw that HBO Max has a 7-day free trial that you can cancel before owing any money. I plan to use the free trial to watch the one on the 25th.
 

Offline MarkBennett

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #7406 on: November 15, 2020, 12:23:35 PM »
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Review of HC's "History's Greatest Mysteries," The Final Hunt for DB Cooper," w Eric Ulis

Excellent broadcast. Probably the most factual and solid reporting of the case. Eric carried the show and was excellent in front of the camera. In fact, I wish he had more screen time to explain the case, the evidence, and the controversy surrounding the flight path.

The docu has three main parts: Searching around Bachelor Island for parachutes and physical evidence, and the parallel discussion on the western flight path, including a concise interview with ATC Cliff Ammerman. Two, a discussion about Sheridan Peterson. Three, breakthrough information on the DNA.

This latter segment will probably fill pages here. Apparently, Tom Kaye suctioned the tie and collected his findings in a sterile filter encapsulated within a sterile container. This may be "Pure DBC DNA." Or not. Whatever it is, it was profiled at DNA Laboratory International in Deerfield Beach, Florida, so we may have DB Cooper's DNA, finally. Or not.

Is it better than the three DNA samples the FBI has/had? The docu didn't discuss that, and that is a failing. Is the Tom Kaye DNA sample simply one of the three DNA samples that the FBI has? Again, not broached in the docu, and remains unknown.

Overall, the docu is excellent. The searching on Bachelor Island drags a bit, and the producers recognized that dynamic so they began intersplicing Sheridan tidbits, but that was mostly distracting. However, it was a lot of fun to see the fatigue on the faces of the searchers after ten hours in the field, and Eric looked so rain-soaked it appeared he had just spent an afternoon tumbling in a Laundromat washing machine.

Some new players were introduced and they were excellent. FBI agent Mary Jean Fryar was superb, and I LOVED her interviews with Petey, who was as flakey and flippant as we have ever seen. BTW: I did love the baseball cap he wore during his interview: "I Miss Obama."

Also, Claire Peterson, Pete's first wife gave a substantive interview, and I relished it. Mark Metzler is also interviewed at length, and it is a delight as Mark has never had more screen time. As always, he is most eloquent.

Looking at the docus that have been produced in the past few years, they are getting better and better as Hollywood has more reliable and camera-ready Cooperites to tap as principals in their broadcasts, and rely less on narratives written by LA-based producers and screen writers, who generally muck everything up.

Addendum

After reading Tom Kaye's comments in the "evidence" thread, the DNA that got tested is NOT DB Cooper's. It's Tom's. How that happened falls in the "Shit Happens" category, apparently.

In the meantime, Petey is back on the hot seat, Eric has a WHOLE new documentary to film, and Cooper World can rest easy knowing that Norjak ain't solved yet, exactly....

Again: "Oh the drama of it all"!   ::)

My analysis is different. (1) the west path back-n-forth was unconvincing and a dud. Went nowhere. (2) The 'alleged' Cooper DZ area turned up common fence wire stuck in the ground - Ulis added drama by calling parachute expert Metzler who ascertained that 'galvanized fence wire is not part of parachutes' - then a fabric was found and submitted to expert Metzler also who assessed that heavy rip stop canvas fabric with leather stitched in it is also not part of parachutes (but maybe a donkey saddle or a common tent ?). The alleged Cooper DZ search was a dud. (3) The DNA. What a well kept secret!  :o   The dna turned out to be Tom's own DNA, not that of DB Cooper or anyone else! But the dna was not Peterson's either, as hoped for! The dna segment turned out to be a big dud.

Outcome: Sheridan Peterson and his fans live to quack until the next wild goose season. This was not a documentary. This was one more DB Cooper promotion. Since they closed this production prematurely prior to knowing/announcing the DNA is not Cooper's or Peterson's, but Tom's, the whole ending of this cable broadcast falls short of its actual conclusion. How to reconnect with realty is now up for grabs and a huge failure! I am told the production company covered the $15,000 ? dollar cost of the dna test ...   So kudos to "DNA Laboratory International in Deerfield Beach, Florida" They are the clear winners.  :congrats:   

Better luck to DB Cooper fans - next time.  :chr2:

IF the DNA had not been found to be Tom's and was believed to be Coopers, the show wouldn't have ended there.  The FBI would have announced the DNA profile, or the producer would have contacted other advocates to check the DNA of their suspect.  When it ended without any of that, something didn't make sense....and Tom confirmed why.  I'm surprised they didn't post a note at the end saying that.  Very disappointed.  Hope the HBO one is better.
 

Offline georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #7407 on: November 15, 2020, 02:04:06 PM »
I am anxious to see DNA Laboratory International's report. Perhaps Tom or someone from  DNA Laboratory International could share that with us. FJ points out that Tom's sticky tape samples could still contain dna evidence ?  What secondary dna beyond Tom's dna, does the Lab report show, if any.

At no time has the Cooper tie ever been preserved since its collection according to the FBI's own standards for 'collection and preservation of biological evidence'. The central issue has always been admissibility in Court. Physical evidence is always challenged -  biological evidence is always held to even a higher standard. Somehow, Tom's own dna contaminated the collection cell.   

So far, there are no FBI 302s that indicate 'biological' tests were done on any of the evidence collected from the plane at Reno until the 2000s, with the exception of a hair sample and prints collected from the plane. The hair sample was placed on a slide and used to help evaluate suspects - likewise the prints became a centerpiece in suspect evaluations.

D.B. Cooper Part 52-038 DBC 21641-42 speaks to the dna issue on 8/21/2002, below.       
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #7408 on: November 15, 2020, 02:37:04 PM »
I'm pretty sure they didn't have the tie this time around so Tom had to of used swatches he had stored?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #7409 on: November 15, 2020, 06:04:37 PM »
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I agree with your review. Peterson looked like he was likely exonerated. But now that we know the DNA was Tom's, I suppose that keeps Peterson in the conversation.

Some things I would include in my own personal review of the show....

--- Eric addressed Peterson's blue eyes in the show. But one thing that was never addressed is that Peterson was as bald as a bowling ball by 1971. So now we would have to introduce the possibility of a wig or something, which is something that has always given me pause with Peterson. I wish the show would have addressed this when they addressed the eye color.

--- Eric (and I believe someone else here as well) has posted some interesting calculations about wind speed and direction and the amount of drift that Cooper would have been subjected to after deploying his parachute (depending on freefall time) and how that calculates into where he could have landed. I wish the show would have gone into this because I think it's a crucial part of the discussion surrounding the drop zone. And considering the bulk of the show was centered around searching new possible landing areas, it seems like a pretty big thing to leave out.

--- All the tromping through the woods felt like a wild goose chase and searching for a needle in a field of haystacks when you don't know if the needle even exists in the first place. However, I do think it brought some value. For one, I had no idea that some of the land there is protected by a wildlife refuge and that there aren't people regularly visiting it. Second, it gives a lot of people some broader perspective about just how big (and thickly vegetated) the area is. I live on the crowded east coast, as do many of the viewers of the show. And many of us city dwellers probably don't have quite the same perspective about just how vast the area is and how challenging the terrain can be.

One of the big arguments in favor of Cooper surviving is "well it's been 49 years and nobody has ever found a body or anything and there are tons of hunters and hikers and people fishing and camping and what not in those woods and surely someone would have found something by now." It remains a strong argument, but it's not bulletproof. Especially when you learn that some of it is protected by a wildlife refuge so there aren't hunters and hikers out there to find anything. There was also a line in there about how years of overgrowth could be providing cover for any evidence that might be out there, which is something that I think I overlooked. And a western flight path introduces more water and small islands to the mix. I am still in the camp that believes he survived, but I think the show did add some more perspective about the likeliness vs. the unlikeliness of something actually being found, even after 49 years. So I do think it brought some value to the table, despite having the feeling that it was done for dramatic TV purposes.

--- I also wish they would have discussed the previous DNA samples that were lifted and why those didn't turn up this time around.

All in all, I really enjoyed the show. I've always held reservations about Peterson being Cooper and the show didn't change my mind on that. But that does not discredit the work that Eric has done. I hope he continues to push the case forward because he's doing some great stuff.

Well said, Raoul. I enjoyed reading your commentary immensely. Yes, the "Refuge" search scenes does provide more context to the case and Cooper Country in general.