Author Topic: New Forum & News Updates  (Read 781160 times)

Offline Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6510 on: November 09, 2019, 04:15:22 PM »
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We spent the week combing the WA side of the river from approximately 100 yards downriver of the Ingram find
-------
The brothers took me to their discovery location, which was about 100 to 150 yards downriver from Ingram's discovery.


I find the two quotes above from Galen interesting.

The reason these are interesting is because awhile back I was watching the DB Cooper show that Galen was on (I cannot remember the show) where he and the show host approach Tena Bar from the river. Galen then proceeded to walk the host to the "money find spot."

Of course, me being very familiar with Tena Bar myself and the actual money find spot in particular, I immediately recognized that Galen identified the wrong money find spot. Ironically, the small cove where Galen and the host pulled up on the beach and parked their boat was literally 20 feet from the actual spot.

The point Galen referenced as the money find spot is about 300 feet (100 yards) south (upriver) from the actual spot. Therefore, there are two interesting possibilities based upon the Galen quotes from above:

1) Galen and Tosaw never actually searched downriver from the money find spot because the incorrect money find spot they were referencing was actually 100 yards upriver from the actual money find spot.

2) If the story from the two boys is accurate, the spot where they found the corners of the twenties was very near the actual money find spot, again given that Galen was working with a money find spot that was incorrect and about 100 yards upriver from the actual money find spot.

Eric, let me see if I can get something clarified here.  If the actual money find location was further downstream (to the north) than originally believed, that would put even more distance between the money and the dredging.  And that would eliminate the possibility that the money had anything to do with the dredge activity.

Distance is relative in this context - things on sandbars move for a number of reasons. You know that!

*The problem with the money find historically, is it turned everything on its head, literally. Under the FBI narrative based on testimony at the time in NORJAK the money find should not even happen - could not happen. Himmelsbach had to scramble to set the money find aside ... his Washougal Theory based on almost idle comments a hydrologist came up with, which btw the same hydrologist stated 'may not have happened'. Five years later H is giving interviews saying the FBI new-revised-current position is Cooper bailed 12 miles north of Portland, wherever that is! That allowed people to push things east toward the Washougal basin. However, Seattle was not going along. H escaped having to eat crow because he retired ! 

You know all of that R99!

Facts:

1.  The Washougal Washdown Theory has been thoroughly discredited.  Anyone who doubts that has not bothered to read the posts on this site or on DropZone or anywhere else for the last 10 years.

2.  The so-call FBI flight path has been thoroughly discredited.  Anyone who knows which end of an airplane takes off first understands why.

3.  Thanks to EU's efforts, there does not appear to be any possibility that the money arrived at Tina Bar as a result of a dredging operation.

Georger knows all of the above.  However, he cannot come up with any valid explanation to explain how the money got to Tina Bar, what the actual flight path was, or anything else.  All Georger can do is bellyache, make silly posts, and try to prevent any real progress being made in the Cooper matter.  Georger, what are you trying to do here?  What is your motive?  Do you even have a motive?   
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 04:17:42 PM by Robert99 »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6511 on: November 09, 2019, 04:29:07 PM »
Another T-Bar Message via Cousin Brucie's Delivery Service

More gist for the mill:

Bruce:
Good job, posting.  You can add this on the Forum:

Eric Ulis may be correct of the exact location of the Ingram money discovery.  The fact is, I don't know for sure.  My estimates were based on the following factors:
1.  Richard Fazio took me to the location site.
2.  Several old fishermen who fished TB since the 1960's showed me the discovery location.
They also claimed they were on site within hours of Brian's money find.
3.  On-site interviews with the two Vancouver men who were teens when they found the corner pieces of money, prior to the Ingram find.
4.  Using photographs of beach excavation work done by Richard Fazio, and using information from the Palmer 302 provided to me by Curtis Eng.

A lot of beach erosion occurred at TB between 1980 and 2009.  Especially after several large snowmelt years when the Columbia River was experiencing elevated levels.  Eric Ulis may in fact have better information as to the exact location of the Cooper money discovery site.  Some of that exactness is lost to history.

Galen Cook

Thanks, Bruce.  You can post that too.  And gave fun at the Cooper Con.

« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 04:29:45 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6512 on: November 09, 2019, 04:40:10 PM »
Cousin Brucie's Two Cents

I, too, was shown the incorrect "Money Discovery Site" at Tina Bar by Al Fazio in 2011. He was quite specific, "It was down there, just below where that stump is." It was a spot just below the Tina Bar sign that is seen in numerous pix.

But he was off by hundreds of feet, if not yards. I was astonished during the 2016 Expedition Unknown Shoot when Robert99 had us walk about two-hundred feet further north from the Tina Bar sign and gate to reach the discovery site, one he claimed was based on a triangulation of wingdams, local landmarks, and aerial photos.

Now, it appears that Eric has pinpointed the exact spot even more precisely based upon the old jeep trail and a bend in the road. It's a spot a little north of R99's 2016 spot, as I figure.

Nevertheless, it's a long way from where Al Fazio directed me initially, which adds to my concern about many of the things Al has told me about this whole affair, such as what he saw on the beach in the early stages of the FBI dig. Not sure exactly when Al arrived on the scene, but by the time he arrived at his ranch, the FBI was well ensconced in their recovery effort, even posting guards on the Lower River Road. Those agents prevented Al from entering his property until they received an "OK" from their superiors.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 04:41:57 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6513 on: November 09, 2019, 04:46:55 PM »
Cousin Brucie's Q&A

Does anyone have a copy of the Palmer Report? If so, can you post it?

It seems that in all of this talk about T-Bar we need ALL of the available information we can gather on the subject of who, what, where, and when. The absence of the Palmer Report is critical, in my view.

Several people are rumored to have a copy. Georger, you're one of them. Do you? Also, Tom Kaye. I'll email TK directly and ask.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 04:49:37 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline EU

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6514 on: November 09, 2019, 04:55:45 PM »
Let me put in a good word for Richard Fazio.

When he brought me down to Tena Bar the first time he initially pointed to a spot 100 feet or so north of the "Tina Bar" sign. He then said, "well I'm not exactly sure it could have been down a little further." (I'm paraphrasing Richard's quote).

I already knew that the spot he was showing me was inaccurate so I then walked him to the actual spot which is about 635 feet north of the "Tina Bar" sign. Richard did not dispute the location I showed him and, in fact, essentially verified the spot when he stated that it was very near the northern property line.

Richard is very kind and an absolute straight shooter. He has always been more than willing to qualify certain statements or recollections when he is not certain given the amount of time that has passed.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6515 on: November 09, 2019, 05:02:23 PM »
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Cousin Brucie's Two Cents

I, too, was shown the incorrect "Money Discovery Site" at Tina Bar by Al Fazio in 2011. He was quite specific, "It was down there, just below where that stump is." It was a spot just below the Tina Bar sign that is seen in numerous pix.

But he was off by hundreds of feet, if not yards. I was astonished during the 2016 Expedition Unknown Shoot when Robert99 had us walk about two-hundred feet further north from the Tina Bar sign and gate to reach the discovery site, one he claimed was based on a triangulation of wingdams, local landmarks, and aerial photos.

Now, it appears that Eric has pinpointed the exact spot even more precisely based upon the old jeep trail and a bend in the road. It's a spot a little north of R99's 2016 spot, as I figure.

Nevertheless, it's a long way from where Al Fazio directed me initially, which adds to my concern about many of the things Al has told me about this whole affair, such as what he saw on the beach in the early stages of the FBI dig. Not sure exactly when Al arrived on the scene, but by the time he arrived at his ranch, the FBI was well ensconced in their recovery effort, even posting guards on the Lower River Road. Those agents prevented Al from entering his property until they received an "OK" from their superiors.

Bruce, you need to get your memory fixed.  What you call "R99's 2016 spot" was determined by the GPS coordinates that Tom Kaye gave me based on his determination of where the money was found.  And that spot can also be identified by landmarks including some landmarks on the Oregon side of the river.  And that point is a lot more than 200 feet from the Tina Bar gate.

Can you give a specific location for where Al Fazio told you the money was found?

For the record, the person who found the money was present when Tom Kaye determined the GPS coordinates.  But according to a news report at that time, that individual was unable to locate the area where he found the money.
 

Offline EU

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6516 on: November 09, 2019, 05:15:33 PM »
It is worth noting that Tom's site points to two different spots as the money find spot. Neither spot is accurate.

I brought this to Tom's attention a few months back, however, he has not updated his site.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6517 on: November 09, 2019, 05:26:15 PM »
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It is worth noting that Tom's site points to two different spots as the money find spot. Neither spot is accurate.

I brought this to Tom's attention a few months back, however, he has not updated his site.

FOR EVERYONE'S INFORMATION

At 3:00 PM PST today (about 30 minutes from now), Expedition Unknown will air a program on the Cooper hijacking.  This program is listed as being first aired in early 2018 so it apparently is not the identical program that was first aired in early 2017.

The program is on the Discovery Channel.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 05:28:38 PM by Robert99 »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6518 on: November 09, 2019, 05:36:41 PM »
More from Cousin Brucie's Delivery Service

Tom Kaye sent the following in response to my query on his possession of the Palmer Report:

Hi Bruce,

Unfortunately we promised the FBI we would not give out any paperwork so my hands are tied there.  BUT I can tell you that the Palmer Report we have is a one page graphic of the sediment layers that I think has already been floating around.  We never saw anything else but given the fact all this FOIA stuff is showing up that we never saw either, means I could be wrong. We were however targeting anything and everything about the money find.

I was amazed there was another placard find so who knows what else is in the archive. There were at least three different huge 302's and each of us took one to go  through. They were similar in many respects but they were not 100% duplicates. Definitely stuff in one that was not in the others.  In general I don’t see enough evidence to throw out the FBI flight path by the way.

Tom
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6519 on: November 09, 2019, 05:37:31 PM »
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It is worth noting that Tom's site points to two different spots as the money find spot. Neither spot is accurate.

I brought this to Tom's attention a few months back, however, he has not updated his site.

FOR EVERYONE'S INFORMATION

At 3:00 PM PST today (about 30 minutes from now), Expedition Unknown will air a program on the Cooper hijacking.  This program is listed as being first aired in early 2018 so it apparently is not the identical program that was first aired in early 2017.

The program is on the Discovery Channel.

Thanks, R99. I think this is our show.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 05:38:16 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6520 on: November 09, 2019, 08:17:03 PM »
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It is worth noting that Tom's site points to two different spots as the money find spot. Neither spot is accurate.

I brought this to Tom's attention a few months back, however, he has not updated his site.

I've noted and documented this for years and have also told Tom the location was inaccurate...
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6521 on: November 10, 2019, 12:23:55 AM »
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It is worth noting that Tom's site points to two different spots as the money find spot. Neither spot is accurate.

I brought this to Tom's attention a few months back, however, he has not updated his site.

FOR EVERYONE'S INFORMATION

At 3:00 PM PST today (about 30 minutes from now), Expedition Unknown will air a program on the Cooper hijacking.  This program is listed as being first aired in early 2018 so it apparently is not the identical program that was first aired in early 2017.

The program is on the Discovery Channel.

Thanks, R99. I think this is our show.

Bruce, is the Expedition Unknown program on Cooper that aired today the same one that aired in 2018?  I didn't see the 2018 program but today's program is definitely not the same one as the original Cooper program that aired in early 2017.
 

Online georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6522 on: November 10, 2019, 01:46:38 AM »
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Another T-Bar Message via Cousin Brucie's Delivery Service

More gist for the mill:

Bruce:
Good job, posting.  You can add this on the Forum:

Eric Ulis may be correct of the exact location of the Ingram money discovery.  The fact is, I don't know for sure.  My estimates were based on the following factors:
1.  Richard Fazio took me to the location site.
2.  Several old fishermen who fished TB since the 1960's showed me the discovery location.
They also claimed they were on site within hours of Brian's money find.
3.  On-site interviews with the two Vancouver men who were teens when they found the corner pieces of money, prior to the Ingram find.
4.  Using photographs of beach excavation work done by Richard Fazio, and using information from the Palmer 302 provided to me by Curtis Eng.

A lot of beach erosion occurred at TB between 1980 and 2009.  Especially after several large snowmelt years when the Columbia River was experiencing elevated levels.  Eric Ulis may in fact have better information as to the exact location of the Cooper money discovery site.  Some of that exactness is lost to history.

Galen Cook

Thanks, Bruce.  You can post that too.  And gave fun at the Cooper Con.

using information from the Palmer 302 provided to me by 由curtis eng提供

So, Cook has the Palmer report - says so publicly - missed this before my prior post. I guess that settles that one. The FULL Palmer Report no less! Holy Moley!

The clouds parted. He has arrived! This changes everything. :o
« Last Edit: November 10, 2019, 02:19:56 AM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6523 on: November 10, 2019, 04:01:16 AM »
How big is the WHOLE Palmer Report? What I hear is that only a few pages have been shared.

Georger, do you have a copy of the Palmer Report?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6524 on: November 10, 2019, 04:03:19 AM »
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It is worth noting that Tom's site points to two different spots as the money find spot. Neither spot is accurate.

I brought this to Tom's attention a few months back, however, he has not updated his site.

FOR EVERYONE'S INFORMATION

At 3:00 PM PST today (about 30 minutes from now), Expedition Unknown will air a program on the Cooper hijacking.  This program is listed as being first aired in early 2018 so it apparently is not the identical program that was first aired in early 2017.

The program is on the Discovery Channel.

Thanks, R99. I think this is our show.

Bruce, is the Expedition Unknown program on Cooper that aired today the same one that aired in 2018?  I didn't see the 2018 program but today's program is definitely not the same one as the original Cooper program that aired in early 2017.

I didn't see today's broadcast. Was today's Ex Unk episode the one where Josh Gates tandem skydives into the brush outside Reno, with you, me and Meyer Louie starting off the program at the beginning at T-Bar?