Author Topic: New Forum & News Updates  (Read 687768 times)

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2625 on: November 24, 2016, 10:18:59 PM »
Why is GG releasing these files?

I don't know. I think that part of the answer may be that he wants help in solving the DB Cooper mystery. Perhaps he feels guilty for stealing the papers from the FBI, but wants to see some good come of it. Maybe he feels guilty for supporting the FBI's push to kill the DBC story with the Marla Madness. Maybe the guilt comes from recasting Earl Cossey as a rigger-only and not a parachute-provider and con man. Maybe members of the FBI want him to keep the investigation going - kind of an end-run around the Bureau's decision to close the case.

The files released are personal to GG, and as such are incomplete. In fact the files are mixed up and reveal that he copied some pages twice!

Nor do any of the files resolve some of the disputed pieces of information that they contain. For instance, Robert Gregory's testimony is all over the roadmap. First he is sitting in the same row as Cooper, then he is sitting in front of him.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2016, 10:23:28 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2626 on: November 25, 2016, 01:34:03 AM »
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It's possible since they technically closed the case, a lot of this information can be now released. could of been bound by contract not to release while it's an open (active) investigation. FOIA will probably now have a lot more information available.

I doubt this - Gray must have had these files for some time. Gray is on the inside looking out for some reason. Gray is the FBI's darling child, for some reason. May have something to do with his publisher clearing the way for him (Crown Publishing)?

Gray does nothing unless there is an advantage in it for him personally - that you can count on.  C:-)
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 01:55:15 AM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2627 on: November 25, 2016, 06:01:51 AM »
I'm asked about Geoffrey's motivations and agendas frequently. Why does he do what he does? Further, how did he get to such an elevated status within the ranks of the FBI? I asked him once, and his reply was - not surprisingly for GG - cryptic, saying that all good journalists protect and carefully develop their sources.

Sometimes I wonder if GG was recruited or selected somehow to partner-up with the FBI. He's been a long-time "A" list writer at the New York magazine, and he has lots of contacts in government and the military, so the FBI knew they would have leverage with a guy who depends on inside USG contacts to keep being on the A List. He is well-connected in the journalism field, too. For instance, at the pub when we were having beers during the 2013 COOPER exhibit at the WA State Historical Museum, I off-handedly mentioned to the table that I was worked on the Flight 800 story and was endeavoring to contact a former CBS correspondent by the name of Kristina Borgesen - my spelling might be a bit off here. Borgesen had been fired by CBS over her zealous reporting of the Flight 800 story and how the FBI had readily commandeered the investigation to nefarious ends. Borgesen had teamed up with some other researchers and had self-produced the docu on 800 that appeared on EPIX TV a few years back.

When GG heard that he got all excited and said that he had just tried calling her that day for an article he was writing on assignment from NY mag (as opposed to freelance or spec) on conspiracies! Talk about small world. When we started talking about small worldness, GG also mentioned that he was good friends with Brendan Koerner, the guy who had just written The Skies Belong to Us - The Golden Age of Sky Piracy which was a NY Times bestseller and the main source of most of the information I was digging up on Cooper copycats.

GG is truly remarkable, and the least of his extraordinary talents is how he still manages to be my friend despite all that I say about him. He is singular.

So with all of his contacts, the FBI might have sought him out, or readily approved his access when he came calling back in 2007 during the early days of the Kenny story.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 06:03:33 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2628 on: November 25, 2016, 06:58:43 AM »
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GG is truly remarkable, and the least of his extraordinary talents is how he still manages to be my friend despite all that I say about him. He is singular.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I don't idolize this guy like you do, Bruce.  He did his thing, made some money, then ditches out, rarely heard from again.  He is definitely not one of us.  He has no real commitment or connection to the case as we do.  Seems he's only out for his personal gain.  Not only that, I wasn't all that impressed with his book -- a bit too cutesy pie for me, and his writing style was terrible.  It was hard to look up and find things in his book, and for a guy who had so much access to pertinent information, he didn't really deliver all that much.  Seriously over-rated. 

If you want me to do book reviews full-time, folks, I'm available.

Meyer
 
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 01:48:25 PM by Shutter »
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2629 on: November 25, 2016, 01:06:02 PM »
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I'm asked about Geoffrey's motivations and agendas frequently. Why does he do what he does? Further, how did he get to such an elevated status within the ranks of the FBI? I asked him once, and his reply was - not surprisingly for GG - cryptic, saying that all good journalists protect and carefully develop their sources.

Sometimes I wonder if GG was recruited or selected somehow to partner-up with the FBI. He's been a long-time "A" list writer at the New York magazine, and he has lots of contacts in government and the military, so the FBI knew they would have leverage with a guy who depends on inside USG contacts to keep being on the A List. He is well-connected in the journalism field, too. For instance, at the pub when we were having beers during the 2013 COOPER exhibit at the WA State Historical Museum, I off-handedly mentioned to the table that I was worked on the Flight 800 story and was endeavoring to contact a former CBS correspondent by the name of Kristina Borgesen - my spelling might be a bit off here. Borgesen had been fired by CBS over her zealous reporting of the Flight 800 story and how the FBI had readily commandeered the investigation to nefarious ends. Borgesen had teamed up with some other researchers and had self-produced the docu on 800 that appeared on EPIX TV a few years back.

When GG heard that he got all excited and said that he had just tried calling her that day for an article he was writing on assignment from NY mag (as opposed to freelance or spec) on conspiracies! Talk about small world. When we started talking about small worldness, GG also mentioned that he was good friends with Brendan Koerner, the guy who had just written The Skies Belong to Us - The Golden Age of Sky Piracy which was a NY Times bestseller and the main source of most of the information I was digging up on Cooper copycats.

GG is truly remarkable, and the least of his extraordinary talents is how he still manages to be my friend despite all that I say about him. He is singular.

So with all of his contacts, the FBI might have sought him out, or readily approved his access when he came calling back in 2007 during the early days of the Kenny story.

Nonsense. Gray is an 'investigative' reporter. No more, no less.

He's as human as any other frog on a log.

 :))
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2630 on: November 25, 2016, 01:51:32 PM »
It appears the files can not be downloaded off the site. I contacted Gray, and he gave me the link, but didn't respond about downloading the files.
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2631 on: November 25, 2016, 04:36:18 PM »
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GG is truly remarkable, and the least of his extraordinary talents is how he still manages to be my friend despite all that I say about him. He is singular.

So with all of his contacts, the FBI might have sought him out, or readily approved his access when he came calling back in 2007 during the early days of the Kenny story.

Nonsense. Gray is an 'investigative' reporter. No more, no less.

He's as human as any other frog on a log.

:))

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Gee, if I didn't know better, Bruce, sounds like Geoffrey Gray is living your dream.  Don't get too gooey over him.  Like Georger just said, he's just a guy doing his job as an investigative reporter.

Meyer
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2632 on: November 25, 2016, 05:42:52 PM »
Here is my distillation of the Passenger List from GG's files (FBI). 35 passengers, plus Dan Cooper. The traditional list that cites 36 passengers is incorrect as Scott MacPherson is counted twice: "MacPherson, Scott" and "MacPherson, S. (son)" on other lists, such as the Seattle Times, CS, 2011 Symposium, etc.


Flight 305 Passenger List – FBI
(35, plus hijacker)


NAME                     ORIGINATION


1. Almstad, Jack                          Great Falls
2. Andvik, Arnold                       Missoula
3. Clause, Roy, D.                        Missoula
4. Conley, Lavonne                       Missoula
5. Connors, Mrs. Helen               Missoula
6. Cooper, Michael                       Missoula
7. Cummings, Mrs. Adele               Great Falls
8. Cummings, Lynn                  Great Falls
9. Cummings, Robert                  Great Falls
10. Donahoe, Raymond               Missoula
11. Finegold, Larry                  PDX
12. Jensen, Wesley, P.               Spokane
13. Keats, William                  Minneapolis
14. Kloepher, Floyd                  Great Falls
15. Kurata, George                  PDX
16. Mac Donald, Clifford Austin            PDX
17. Mac Pherson, Scott               Spokane
18. Mac Pherson, William               Spokane
19. Menendez, Adrian                  PDX
20. Mikelson, Dennis                  Great Falls
21. Minsch, Patrick                  PDX
22. Murphy, William, J               Great Falls
23. Pollart, Les                     PDX
24. Rice, Daniel                     Great Falls
25. Simmons, Barbara               PDX
26. Simmons, Richard                  PDX
27. Truitt, Alan, B.                       Missoula
28. Street, Charles                  Missoula
29. Weitzel, Paul (part of the MacPherson party)   Spokane
30. Wornstaff, James, R               PDX

Additional:
1. Robert Gregory
2. Nancy House
3. George Labissioniere
4. Bill Mitchell
5. Cord Harms Spreckel
6. DAN COOPER
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 05:44:25 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2633 on: November 25, 2016, 05:45:17 PM »
If anyone is having trouble getting the download from GG I have the PDF files and I'll send it to you. Shut, yours is on the way, pronto...
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2634 on: November 25, 2016, 06:02:42 PM »
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If anyone is having trouble getting the download from GG I have the PDF files and I'll send it to you. Shut, yours is on the way, pronto...


Got it, thanks. I will be uploading it to the vault shortly..
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2635 on: November 25, 2016, 06:31:56 PM »
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Nonsense. Gray is an 'investigative' reporter. No more, no less.

He's as human as any other frog on a log.

 :))

That's a bit too flippant, G.

Geoffrey Gray is the only journalist to have access to the FBI files. How he got that access is a significant part of the Norjak story.

Then add in his role of bringing Marla Cooper to prominence, the dramatic shift in public presentation of Earl Cossey, and GG's efforts to deliver two DB Cooper conferences is all very important grist for the investigatory mill.

He is not just another frog on a log.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 06:32:11 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2636 on: November 25, 2016, 07:04:51 PM »
The files have been uploaded to the site with credit given to Geoffrey Gray, and a link to his site...


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« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 08:43:39 PM by Shutter »
 
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MeyerLouie

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2637 on: November 25, 2016, 08:41:48 PM »
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Nonsense. Gray is an 'investigative' reporter. No more, no less.

He's as human as any other frog on a log.

 :))

That's a bit too flippant, G.

Geoffrey Gray is the only journalist to have access to the FBI files. How he got that access is a significant part of the Norjak story.

Then add in his role of bringing Marla Cooper to prominence, the dramatic shift in public presentation of Earl Cossey, and GG's efforts to deliver two DB Cooper conferences is all very important grist for the investigatory mill.

He is not just another frog on a log.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

And you'd give your right nut to have what GG has, Bruce.  Did you get his autograph?  Are you a member of his fan club?  Never thought I'd see a star-struck groupie here.  GG IS just anther frog on a log -- and terribly over-rated.

Meyer 
 

Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2638 on: November 25, 2016, 09:52:58 PM »
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The files have been uploaded to the site with credit given to Geoffrey Gray, and a link to his site...


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Shutter,

Can something be done to this file so that it can be printed?  There are a number of pages here from the FBI file that have not previously been available to this group.

Based on these previously unavailable pages, I think it would have saved us a few years of arguing on DZ and here about such things as the tie, which was apparently found on a seat where the hijacker had sat, during the first inspection of the aircraft in Reno on the night of the hijacking.

It looks like the Reno agents did a good investigative job.  So good that it is a disappointment that other people in different locations didn't do an equally good job.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #2639 on: November 25, 2016, 09:59:50 PM »
they should be printable, did you try the print function with the file in the upper right?